Do the thing or not do the thing?
November 17, 2023 8:01 PM Subscribe
Okay, so, plans made with a decades old friend are beginning to feel awkward, and I don't know what exactly is going on or even how to find out the truth.
I've known this guy since the mid-Nineties. We spent a few years hanging out together for New Years in his city, was a good time always.
His life changed, mine did too. We've kept in very sporadic touch. He came to a Halloween party of mine once in the Oughts, I did back with him in the Teens...
Fast forward, not much contact, I sent him maybe 4 emails across perhaps a year, each "I'd like to get back in touch, let's catch up" kinds of messages. Not across each year across just one year after a long gap.
He responds with a phone call! It isn't the catching up on each others lives, what movies and music are cool for you, blah blah blah, it's "Let's go see U2 in Vegas in the Sphere".
Okay, I'm a sucker for that. U2 is one of my most favoritest bands ever and i utterly fucking HATE Vegas but I do like me some Achtung Baby and sensory overload. And a couple of days to catch up with a friend while on an adventure! Great! And, the only reason I ever go to Vegas for is a concert!
We make plans, I buy a plane ticket, we text a bit and yes I'm a fanboy sharing fanboy stuff but he's being all weird with his interactions, and even when I try to talk about just normal life like friends catching up he's unresponsive or kind of kicking me aside. And suddenly it's NO! a wall and it's not like adult "hey cool it not into this like you are stuff" it's rather "someone I've known for decades has died and I can't deal with the texts you're sending me", like the kind of thing you tell your boss at the corner market when you need some time off.
Okay, someone you know has died and you can't deal with this. Got it.
I send condolences and am silent for months.
But this past week we've gotten into "it's a month until we go to the thing" territory. And I've been doing research about traveling to Vegas which is fucked right now but am just holding it. And I send a text about needing to touch base about the trip. And I get back that he's traveling and will call me back the next day.
Days have passed. And no response since then.
At this point I'm losing faith in my friend to actually be there for this trip. We've been out of touch for a very long time, and maybe he's decided to troll me into flying to Vegas with no plans on meeting me there for the concert.
Right now, I feel like I need to either cancel the trip for myself or demand from him that he transfer the ticket for the concert he claims to have for me to my own Ticketmaster account so I know I will be flying there for a reason, whether he's a part of it or not.
It's weird to feel like I'm in such a limbo about a trip like this, but he's very unresponsive with phone call, text, or email.
So, my thoughts are demand the ticket be transferred to me or cancel the trip. Any other viewpoints are welcome.
I've known this guy since the mid-Nineties. We spent a few years hanging out together for New Years in his city, was a good time always.
His life changed, mine did too. We've kept in very sporadic touch. He came to a Halloween party of mine once in the Oughts, I did back with him in the Teens...
Fast forward, not much contact, I sent him maybe 4 emails across perhaps a year, each "I'd like to get back in touch, let's catch up" kinds of messages. Not across each year across just one year after a long gap.
He responds with a phone call! It isn't the catching up on each others lives, what movies and music are cool for you, blah blah blah, it's "Let's go see U2 in Vegas in the Sphere".
Okay, I'm a sucker for that. U2 is one of my most favoritest bands ever and i utterly fucking HATE Vegas but I do like me some Achtung Baby and sensory overload. And a couple of days to catch up with a friend while on an adventure! Great! And, the only reason I ever go to Vegas for is a concert!
We make plans, I buy a plane ticket, we text a bit and yes I'm a fanboy sharing fanboy stuff but he's being all weird with his interactions, and even when I try to talk about just normal life like friends catching up he's unresponsive or kind of kicking me aside. And suddenly it's NO! a wall and it's not like adult "hey cool it not into this like you are stuff" it's rather "someone I've known for decades has died and I can't deal with the texts you're sending me", like the kind of thing you tell your boss at the corner market when you need some time off.
Okay, someone you know has died and you can't deal with this. Got it.
I send condolences and am silent for months.
But this past week we've gotten into "it's a month until we go to the thing" territory. And I've been doing research about traveling to Vegas which is fucked right now but am just holding it. And I send a text about needing to touch base about the trip. And I get back that he's traveling and will call me back the next day.
Days have passed. And no response since then.
At this point I'm losing faith in my friend to actually be there for this trip. We've been out of touch for a very long time, and maybe he's decided to troll me into flying to Vegas with no plans on meeting me there for the concert.
Right now, I feel like I need to either cancel the trip for myself or demand from him that he transfer the ticket for the concert he claims to have for me to my own Ticketmaster account so I know I will be flying there for a reason, whether he's a part of it or not.
It's weird to feel like I'm in such a limbo about a trip like this, but he's very unresponsive with phone call, text, or email.
So, my thoughts are demand the ticket be transferred to me or cancel the trip. Any other viewpoints are welcome.
I think he's ghosting you, unfortunately. I think it would be reasonable to write him and ask that he transfer the ticket to his account, because you'd still like to go even if he can't have it. And if you don't hear from him by X date (a week or so away?) you will cancel your trip.
posted by medusa at 9:08 PM on November 17 [7 favorites]
posted by medusa at 9:08 PM on November 17 [7 favorites]
Ask for the ticket but he may be avoiding you for any number of reasons, including having lost the email with the confirmation or his passwords.
If that's the case he probably won't get back to you till closer to the date of the show, and even then it's questionable whether he'd show up.
posted by jello at 9:20 PM on November 17
If that's the case he probably won't get back to you till closer to the date of the show, and even then it's questionable whether he'd show up.
posted by jello at 9:20 PM on November 17
For whatever reason or for no reason, this person has become a first class flake. I think your plan to ask for the ticket to be transferred to you is a good one. It calls the issue. He transfers the ticket and you Venmo him the cost. I just would put it a little softer than a demand even though it should be a firm. As part of the email or conversation asking for the transfer, I would give him some way to bail out. That way you will know too what his intentions really are. The other option is to ghost him back. Make your own plans. Buy your own ticket. Shake rattle and hum without him.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:35 PM on November 17 [2 favorites]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:35 PM on November 17 [2 favorites]
It almost sounds like he never got around to buying any tickets and is too embarrassed to admit it. I would cancel the trip.
posted by dum spiro spero at 10:02 PM on November 17 [46 favorites]
posted by dum spiro spero at 10:02 PM on November 17 [46 favorites]
I can't tell if you had actual confirmation that he bought you a ticket and whether you paid him for it already or not. If none of the above, I would just stop trying to figure out his deal and assume you aren't going. It sucks that you're being let down by an old friend and it sounds like it was a fun plan! But something changed for your friend, and even if he did have your ticket, the stress to coordinate this doesn't sound worth it. He's not being forthcoming and it's not fair to be stringed along like that. You can't do much about his communication,I'd leave it. Especially since you don't like Vegas. If you paid him for the ticket, that's another story...
posted by AnyUsernameWillDo at 10:37 PM on November 17 [2 favorites]
posted by AnyUsernameWillDo at 10:37 PM on November 17 [2 favorites]
Did you send money to him for the ticket already? If so I would be concerned that he just scammed you for some cash.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:51 PM on November 17 [4 favorites]
posted by oneirodynia at 10:51 PM on November 17 [4 favorites]
...Yeah, I'm suspecting he never bought the tickets and is too embarrassed to say so. I wouldn't go to Vegas.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:01 PM on November 17 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:01 PM on November 17 [4 favorites]
Another possibility is he did buy the tickets, is going through a rough time, but does have the trip on his calendar and plans to pull things together last minute. (That would be me.) I would definitely reach out before you start cancelling things. I'm sorry about whatever happened. You're probably right that this will fall through. But giving him one last chance to say he's still there and planning to go would be a good move in case.
posted by slidell at 1:19 AM on November 18 [1 favorite]
posted by slidell at 1:19 AM on November 18 [1 favorite]
I agree with the above, especially the comments saying he probably never had the tickets or forgot to buy them. The trip is a write off and this guy is clearly struggling with something, whether that's a bereavement or his own mental health or just a busy lifestyle, but he's clearly not able to be a friend to you right now. Give him one last chance, tell him you're cancelling the trip, see what happens. But don't expect too much.
For what it's worth, I would be feeling frustrated and weird about this too. It sucks to be left on read about plans like this, especially when they involve cross-country travel and a lot of emotional investment on your part.
posted by fight or flight at 2:20 AM on November 18 [1 favorite]
For what it's worth, I would be feeling frustrated and weird about this too. It sucks to be left on read about plans like this, especially when they involve cross-country travel and a lot of emotional investment on your part.
posted by fight or flight at 2:20 AM on November 18 [1 favorite]
maybe he's decided to troll me into flying to Vegas with no plans on meeting me there for the concert
Maybe, but it seems more likely he's going through some sort of breakdown or extreme stress or something. Why assume malice?
I'm sorry this is happening.
posted by trig at 3:02 AM on November 18 [13 favorites]
Maybe, but it seems more likely he's going through some sort of breakdown or extreme stress or something. Why assume malice?
I'm sorry this is happening.
posted by trig at 3:02 AM on November 18 [13 favorites]
Ask for the ticket, provide the details he needs to transfer it to you in that message. Make it clear you‘ll cancel your travel plans if you don’t have the ticket by a short deadline - a day or two, not a week.
He‘s either got the tickets and is really distracted by whatever it may be and this will help him focus. Or he doesn’t have the ticket but at least you’re no longer waiting and can adjust your own plans.
posted by koahiatamadl at 4:18 AM on November 18 [1 favorite]
He‘s either got the tickets and is really distracted by whatever it may be and this will help him focus. Or he doesn’t have the ticket but at least you’re no longer waiting and can adjust your own plans.
posted by koahiatamadl at 4:18 AM on November 18 [1 favorite]
And suddenly it's NO! a wall and it's not like adult "hey cool it not into this like you are stuff" it's rather "someone I've known for decades has died and I can't deal with the texts you're sending me", like the kind of thing you tell your boss at the corner market when you need some time off.
It is also the kind of thing you say when someone close to you had died and you can't deal with the texts you are receiving about inconsequential things. There are other places where you are also ascribing pretty shitty motives to this former friend when there are other plausible and less malevolent explanations for their actions. It doesn't make ignoring you when you are supposed to be going in this trip together okay, but you can blame him for his shitty behavior without adding assumptions about his motivations.
I would reach out and send him your most basic travel itinerary with flights and hotels and ask for him to send your ticket to you and to let you know what date and time he is getting in, without initially adding any threat that if he doesn't do it by X day you are going to cancel. If he doesn't respond to that email within a couple of days then say something like "I haven't heard anything back from you in awhile and it feels like maybe you are having second thoughts about this trip. If you would rather cancel, I understand. If we are still on, can you let me know by Friday? Otherwise, I will cancel the hotel and flights I have booked."
posted by jacquilynne at 5:01 AM on November 18 [38 favorites]
It is also the kind of thing you say when someone close to you had died and you can't deal with the texts you are receiving about inconsequential things. There are other places where you are also ascribing pretty shitty motives to this former friend when there are other plausible and less malevolent explanations for their actions. It doesn't make ignoring you when you are supposed to be going in this trip together okay, but you can blame him for his shitty behavior without adding assumptions about his motivations.
I would reach out and send him your most basic travel itinerary with flights and hotels and ask for him to send your ticket to you and to let you know what date and time he is getting in, without initially adding any threat that if he doesn't do it by X day you are going to cancel. If he doesn't respond to that email within a couple of days then say something like "I haven't heard anything back from you in awhile and it feels like maybe you are having second thoughts about this trip. If you would rather cancel, I understand. If we are still on, can you let me know by Friday? Otherwise, I will cancel the hotel and flights I have booked."
posted by jacquilynne at 5:01 AM on November 18 [38 favorites]
Okay some info is needed on this.
1) When you say "we made plans" what actually happened? How granular were those plans? Were they like "We will fly in on X day" or "You will buy the tickets" or were they more like "Ah yeah it'll be so good, we'll see X and Y and Z while we're there?"
2) Did you send him money for the tickets?
3) Is he local to Vegas or would he have to fly into Vegas?
posted by corb at 5:05 AM on November 18 [6 favorites]
1) When you say "we made plans" what actually happened? How granular were those plans? Were they like "We will fly in on X day" or "You will buy the tickets" or were they more like "Ah yeah it'll be so good, we'll see X and Y and Z while we're there?"
2) Did you send him money for the tickets?
3) Is he local to Vegas or would he have to fly into Vegas?
posted by corb at 5:05 AM on November 18 [6 favorites]
you are also ascribing pretty shitty motives to this former friend when there are other plausible and less malevolent explanations for their actions
Yeah, this was what jumped out at me - except I'd go further, and point out that the less malevolent explanations are also way more plausible! I mean:
maybe he's decided to troll me into flying to Vegas with no plans on meeting me there for the concert
This makes no sense based on what you've written. Did you kill this friend's pet? Burn his house down? Because I can't imagine doing such a thing in general, but certainly not to an old friend - regardless of how close or not we'd become. This would be a very elaborate and complicated way to get vengeance, but it doesn't sound like there is anything for the friend to get vengeance for - so why assume that's what is going on here?
My read of the chronology:
It sounds like this is the sort of friendship, common at a certain point of adulthood (especially if you've moved around), where you always enjoy seeing each other when you do, but it's infrequent, and there isn't much contact in between hangouts.
You send him emails, he eventually responds via a phone call. That suggests to me that he's not much of an email guy, and I can relate to that - I think a lot of people are burned out on emails. You make plans to do something you're excited to do - great!
You see this as an opening to change the dynamic of your friendship (mostly no-contact in between hangouts), and start texting him a lot. It sounds like he's responding at first, but in a way you find "weird" - but is it possible he's not much of a texter? Myself, I have the bandwidth to have a few friends I regularly text with - if a friend out of nowhere began to want to regularly text, I might be "weird" about it too. Then "someone [he's] known for decades has died" and so of course he doesn't have the bandwidth - here too, I am confused why you assume he's lying - I would never lie about something so consequential to a friend (nor a boss for that matter).
But this past week we've gotten into "it's a month until we go to the thing" territory.
What does this mean? Like slidell suggests, is it possible he's more into being spontaneous? I too am scratching my head to figure out what additionally planning is needed. You said you "made plans" by which I assume means bought concert tickets, settled on travel dates, bought plane tickets, and reserved accommodations. I just did a Google, and it's not clear what you mean by "traveling to Vegas...is fucked right now" beyond a Formula 1 race leading to crowds, but there isn't really much one can do there should that impact you.
Anyway, you text him, he responds letting you know he's traveling (which could be true), and promises to call back - and forgets, for whatever reason.
To conclude, call him today (he clearly prefers calling to text/email), but only after you can bury any malice or paranoia you're feeling towards him. He's done nothing wrong here, and least based on what you've shared, so for the sake of the friendship you want to avoid having an edge in your voice.
posted by coffeecat at 6:46 AM on November 18 [4 favorites]
Yeah, this was what jumped out at me - except I'd go further, and point out that the less malevolent explanations are also way more plausible! I mean:
maybe he's decided to troll me into flying to Vegas with no plans on meeting me there for the concert
This makes no sense based on what you've written. Did you kill this friend's pet? Burn his house down? Because I can't imagine doing such a thing in general, but certainly not to an old friend - regardless of how close or not we'd become. This would be a very elaborate and complicated way to get vengeance, but it doesn't sound like there is anything for the friend to get vengeance for - so why assume that's what is going on here?
My read of the chronology:
It sounds like this is the sort of friendship, common at a certain point of adulthood (especially if you've moved around), where you always enjoy seeing each other when you do, but it's infrequent, and there isn't much contact in between hangouts.
You send him emails, he eventually responds via a phone call. That suggests to me that he's not much of an email guy, and I can relate to that - I think a lot of people are burned out on emails. You make plans to do something you're excited to do - great!
You see this as an opening to change the dynamic of your friendship (mostly no-contact in between hangouts), and start texting him a lot. It sounds like he's responding at first, but in a way you find "weird" - but is it possible he's not much of a texter? Myself, I have the bandwidth to have a few friends I regularly text with - if a friend out of nowhere began to want to regularly text, I might be "weird" about it too. Then "someone [he's] known for decades has died" and so of course he doesn't have the bandwidth - here too, I am confused why you assume he's lying - I would never lie about something so consequential to a friend (nor a boss for that matter).
But this past week we've gotten into "it's a month until we go to the thing" territory.
What does this mean? Like slidell suggests, is it possible he's more into being spontaneous? I too am scratching my head to figure out what additionally planning is needed. You said you "made plans" by which I assume means bought concert tickets, settled on travel dates, bought plane tickets, and reserved accommodations. I just did a Google, and it's not clear what you mean by "traveling to Vegas...is fucked right now" beyond a Formula 1 race leading to crowds, but there isn't really much one can do there should that impact you.
Anyway, you text him, he responds letting you know he's traveling (which could be true), and promises to call back - and forgets, for whatever reason.
To conclude, call him today (he clearly prefers calling to text/email), but only after you can bury any malice or paranoia you're feeling towards him. He's done nothing wrong here, and least based on what you've shared, so for the sake of the friendship you want to avoid having an edge in your voice.
posted by coffeecat at 6:46 AM on November 18 [4 favorites]
I had a roughly similar situation happen to me about 10 years ago. I had bought plane tickets and the person who I had considered a friend was supposed to have booked the hotel for the event. The main part that was different was that, as far as I know, she didn’t have any extra stress in her life.
The person ended up completely ghosting me. I tried multiple times to get an answer from her. But I never saw or heard from her again. I waited too long to make a decision and ended up just losing what I had paid for the plane tickets.
Anyway, my advice is to try one last time to reach out, by whatever means, and then cut your losses, both with the friend and financially.
posted by NotLost at 6:52 AM on November 18 [6 favorites]
The person ended up completely ghosting me. I tried multiple times to get an answer from her. But I never saw or heard from her again. I waited too long to make a decision and ended up just losing what I had paid for the plane tickets.
Anyway, my advice is to try one last time to reach out, by whatever means, and then cut your losses, both with the friend and financially.
posted by NotLost at 6:52 AM on November 18 [6 favorites]
Did he actually explicitly say to you that someone in his life literally died, and he doesn’t have the emotional energy to respond? Because if so he is straight up telling you what’s going on, and I don’t think you need to play these guessing games. If I were grieving and an old friend were texting me constantly about some band, I’d need space too, and that would hang nothing to do with the friend themselves.
With that said, I too would be more comfortable if he just sent me the tickets, and I think it’s okay if you insist on that. I have no idea what to say to get him to actually send them to you (maybe someone here can suggest a script) but I think it’s reasonable. Even if he’s being honest about what’s going on, the lack of contact is nerve wracking.
posted by Amy93 at 7:22 AM on November 18 [3 favorites]
With that said, I too would be more comfortable if he just sent me the tickets, and I think it’s okay if you insist on that. I have no idea what to say to get him to actually send them to you (maybe someone here can suggest a script) but I think it’s reasonable. Even if he’s being honest about what’s going on, the lack of contact is nerve wracking.
posted by Amy93 at 7:22 AM on November 18 [3 favorites]
Hey hippybear - this sounds shitty for sure. Whatever this is, it is probably not aimed at you. This person is either steadily depressed and not capable, or maybe gets a mood swing of excitement about an old friend and proposes an idea that was 100% real at the time, but next day is out of their range to cope with, either financially or followthrough-wise.
I have been that guy a couple of times, and the opposite of ghosting is “I love this person and I am messing this up OMG OMG” and then suspression is the thing that comes next.
Just saying: yes get that ticket assigned or dont go since you dont want to be in Vegas for its own sake. Send am email explaining that, with a deadline, saying to reach out when they want to, with good wishes. Then after the dropdead date (no pun intended) you can stop having that financial and hassle issue floating in that gray zone. Good luck.
posted by drowsy at 7:57 AM on November 18 [2 favorites]
I have been that guy a couple of times, and the opposite of ghosting is “I love this person and I am messing this up OMG OMG” and then suspression is the thing that comes next.
Just saying: yes get that ticket assigned or dont go since you dont want to be in Vegas for its own sake. Send am email explaining that, with a deadline, saying to reach out when they want to, with good wishes. Then after the dropdead date (no pun intended) you can stop having that financial and hassle issue floating in that gray zone. Good luck.
posted by drowsy at 7:57 AM on November 18 [2 favorites]
Respecting the edit rules …. I should have added that letting this person off the hook is a kindness, and might be a pre-req for two-way comms again, removing that emotional blockage on their end.
posted by drowsy at 8:01 AM on November 18 [4 favorites]
posted by drowsy at 8:01 AM on November 18 [4 favorites]
I’m sorry this happened! But I agree that absent missing information, it’s probably best to assume this is exactly the straightforward situation it seems to be - he’s had a death of someone close to him and he just doesn’t have the capacity for social things right now. I would assume that is likely to include travel as well, and send him one additional kind, clear message asking if he’s able to transfer the ticket so you can still go, and letting him know if you don’t hear back by X you will assume this isn’t going to happen and cancel the trip.
posted by Stacey at 8:30 AM on November 18 [1 favorite]
posted by Stacey at 8:30 AM on November 18 [1 favorite]
Call your friend on the phone to have this conversation, at least 2-3 times if he doesn’t pick up. That seems to be the communication method that works for him and you can hopefully have an actual synchronous conversation about what is going on. There’s a lot of emotion here and it’s probably good for both of you to remember there’s a living breathing human on the other side of this situation. I agree with the above comments that it sounds likely the outcome is not that the trip is still on.
This is also zero to sixty in terms of reconnecting, my boundaries around this would have been making arrangements such that I could still have a nice trip even if friend flaked or I learned something terrible about them that made me not want to be friends. Dude doesn’t answer my emails and then we talk once and plan a trip involving plane tickets and a $$$ concert is a big jump. Look after your own sweet heart in friendships!
posted by momus_window at 8:50 AM on November 18 [6 favorites]
This is also zero to sixty in terms of reconnecting, my boundaries around this would have been making arrangements such that I could still have a nice trip even if friend flaked or I learned something terrible about them that made me not want to be friends. Dude doesn’t answer my emails and then we talk once and plan a trip involving plane tickets and a $$$ concert is a big jump. Look after your own sweet heart in friendships!
posted by momus_window at 8:50 AM on November 18 [6 favorites]
"someone I've known for decades has died and I can't deal with the texts you're sending me"
Agreed this is a pretty straightforward message. It may not sound casual like "I'm not into this" because they're in a super-intense moment of dealing with that death.
posted by slidell at 6:35 PM on November 19
Agreed this is a pretty straightforward message. It may not sound casual like "I'm not into this" because they're in a super-intense moment of dealing with that death.
posted by slidell at 6:35 PM on November 19
Response by poster: Thanks to everyone who has responded in this thread so far. I'm feeling less insane than I was before I read all your answers, but still not sure about what is going on, or what is going to happen.
To answer a bunch of questions:
"zero to sixty in terms of reconnecting" -- we've never lived in the same city and have always done pretty major things together, never had really casual hang out time, this doesn't feel out of line for our past experiences together.
So, he called me and offered to take me to see U2. I told him that I really can't afford tickets for that right now, but he said if I can catch airfare and half of the hotel room, he'll grab the show ticket. He told me the next day he had gotten tickets to the show, so I purchased my travel that night while on the phone with him and he knows I've paid for this plane flight. Money for the hotel would be given in cash when we meet up. He is not local to Vegas, so this would be a travel outing for him, too. He's said he's already made hotel reservations and gave me a dollar amount, but I'm mentally adding $50 onto that because he may not know about "resort fees" etc.
So, where it stand is, I think he bought tickets for the show, I have bought air travel, nothing else has been settled although he says he has hotel reservations.
The show is on December 13. The plan is to fly in on that day, do the show, spend the next day together, and then fly out on the 15th.
I'm not going to outline all the ins and outs of our communications after these two phone calls that established the idea of the trip and me buying my airfare. I will just say, they have felt really off to me in ways that I think would feel off to others if they had received them. The dismissal of conversation with his friend dying just felt so weird because I'd texted to ask what kind of food ideas he had in mind so I could try to budget.
That text was in... -checks phone- mid-September. The only communication I've with him since then was a note last Monday that he would call me last Thursday.
So, I guess, I'll give him a call tomorrow. My plan is to explain, either to him or his voicemail, that it seems like he's got a lot going on in his life right now, and the way communication about this trip has gone has really gotten into some nooks and crannies in my broken psyche and we're going to need to firm things up a bit more or I'm going to cancel for my own mental health. Try to make the issue about my feelings and not his behavior.
Honestly, I feel so much better reading all your responses, feeling like I'm not going to be the bad guy if I say I just can't do this. And it isn't that I don't want to do the trip -- I just can't handle the feeling of having been hooked in and now being negged pretty heavily. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he does have a lot going on, and maybe this is the out he wants. I do know that doing that phone call and then either getting a response or cancelling my flights [on Southwest, so the dollars just go in for a future flight] is a decision that is making ME feel a lot better.
posted by hippybear at 6:56 PM on November 19
To answer a bunch of questions:
"zero to sixty in terms of reconnecting" -- we've never lived in the same city and have always done pretty major things together, never had really casual hang out time, this doesn't feel out of line for our past experiences together.
So, he called me and offered to take me to see U2. I told him that I really can't afford tickets for that right now, but he said if I can catch airfare and half of the hotel room, he'll grab the show ticket. He told me the next day he had gotten tickets to the show, so I purchased my travel that night while on the phone with him and he knows I've paid for this plane flight. Money for the hotel would be given in cash when we meet up. He is not local to Vegas, so this would be a travel outing for him, too. He's said he's already made hotel reservations and gave me a dollar amount, but I'm mentally adding $50 onto that because he may not know about "resort fees" etc.
So, where it stand is, I think he bought tickets for the show, I have bought air travel, nothing else has been settled although he says he has hotel reservations.
The show is on December 13. The plan is to fly in on that day, do the show, spend the next day together, and then fly out on the 15th.
I'm not going to outline all the ins and outs of our communications after these two phone calls that established the idea of the trip and me buying my airfare. I will just say, they have felt really off to me in ways that I think would feel off to others if they had received them. The dismissal of conversation with his friend dying just felt so weird because I'd texted to ask what kind of food ideas he had in mind so I could try to budget.
That text was in... -checks phone- mid-September. The only communication I've with him since then was a note last Monday that he would call me last Thursday.
So, I guess, I'll give him a call tomorrow. My plan is to explain, either to him or his voicemail, that it seems like he's got a lot going on in his life right now, and the way communication about this trip has gone has really gotten into some nooks and crannies in my broken psyche and we're going to need to firm things up a bit more or I'm going to cancel for my own mental health. Try to make the issue about my feelings and not his behavior.
Honestly, I feel so much better reading all your responses, feeling like I'm not going to be the bad guy if I say I just can't do this. And it isn't that I don't want to do the trip -- I just can't handle the feeling of having been hooked in and now being negged pretty heavily. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he does have a lot going on, and maybe this is the out he wants. I do know that doing that phone call and then either getting a response or cancelling my flights [on Southwest, so the dollars just go in for a future flight] is a decision that is making ME feel a lot better.
posted by hippybear at 6:56 PM on November 19
Response by poster: Actually, placed the call this evening, in a fit of pure self-affirmation. Went in with what I said I would above, his life must be busy, etc. Told him we need to talk within 48 hours because this was really negatively affecting my mental health. Ended the call with "So, would like to do the trip, but would like to not feel like this anymore."
posted by hippybear at 8:44 PM on November 19 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:44 PM on November 19 [2 favorites]
Hmm I’ll be curious to hear how this ends up.. like some other responders I’m also really not enthusiastic about text or email, but I probably would have sent a voice memo or some such saying as much. At any rate .. I’m keeping fingers crossed for it all being fine and no ill intent. Boy do I think half of the tremulousness of communications we have nowadays would be avoided if we could just go back to the pacing of returning calls to landlines in the nineties. Or if they taught text message etiquette in school the way they taught us letter writing etiquette in 7th grade. But.. cest la vie
posted by elgee at 8:12 AM on November 20 [1 favorite]
posted by elgee at 8:12 AM on November 20 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Spent a couple of phone calls today to get to the end point that we're not doing the thing.
He gave me a story about being in conflict with his supervisor and having been on medical leave from his job because of stress-induced anemia, and today being the last day of his medical leave so he was having to navigate the stress of how to avoid dealing with his manager again and and and...
The end result is, after I proposed during phone call number one today that maybe we aren't doing this trip, at the end of phone call number two he decided we weren't doing it.
I have no idea what the actual truth in all this is. There was no mention of the friend who had died, I didn't ask. He had much earlier told me he was going on a trip to Paris at the end of October, but when I asked him about it today, he asked what I was talking about until he finally clued in that I was asking about the trip he'd gotten back from two weeks ago. I mentioned at one point that I didn't know if he'd even bought concert tickets and he shifted the subject. At the end of the call when I said I needed to call the airline to cancel my flight, he said "oh, right, yeah, cancel flights, I should do that too".
The entire thing feels really strange to me. I'm going to try to be in better, more casual touch with him over the next while and maybe we can meet up another time. He obviously has something going on in his life, whether it is any of the things he is telling me I have no idea. I don't have any real experience with him being a fabulist of this sort before, but I really do feel in my gut like I've been fed a line.
Thanks to everyone here for their input and helping me feel better about even questioning this situation to begin with.
posted by hippybear at 5:45 PM on November 20 [4 favorites]
He gave me a story about being in conflict with his supervisor and having been on medical leave from his job because of stress-induced anemia, and today being the last day of his medical leave so he was having to navigate the stress of how to avoid dealing with his manager again and and and...
The end result is, after I proposed during phone call number one today that maybe we aren't doing this trip, at the end of phone call number two he decided we weren't doing it.
I have no idea what the actual truth in all this is. There was no mention of the friend who had died, I didn't ask. He had much earlier told me he was going on a trip to Paris at the end of October, but when I asked him about it today, he asked what I was talking about until he finally clued in that I was asking about the trip he'd gotten back from two weeks ago. I mentioned at one point that I didn't know if he'd even bought concert tickets and he shifted the subject. At the end of the call when I said I needed to call the airline to cancel my flight, he said "oh, right, yeah, cancel flights, I should do that too".
The entire thing feels really strange to me. I'm going to try to be in better, more casual touch with him over the next while and maybe we can meet up another time. He obviously has something going on in his life, whether it is any of the things he is telling me I have no idea. I don't have any real experience with him being a fabulist of this sort before, but I really do feel in my gut like I've been fed a line.
Thanks to everyone here for their input and helping me feel better about even questioning this situation to begin with.
posted by hippybear at 5:45 PM on November 20 [4 favorites]
Whatever he has going on with him, clearly he has decided to flake on the whole thing and I totally don't think he ever got tickets and it's too late now to get them. I would be surprised if you ever hear from him again, actually. I'm glad you got it all clarified enough to pull out of the trip, though.
I think I know what you mean: I get this kind of...for lack of a better term..."liar's ping" when someone is telling me something they know is a lie, at times. Like something just literally rings wrong with what is coming out of their mouth and what they are thinking is the opposite of what they are saying, like they are at cross-purposes. I've never called someone out on this to their face before--probably no point to getting confrontational--but I know if I get that feeling, not to believe what they say. I nod, smile, say "okay then," and move on with my life, assuming that what they said meant nothing, and I've never been wrong to assume that.
Sorry to hear he's a flake and bail, but at least hopefully money is saved.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:16 PM on November 20 [1 favorite]
I think I know what you mean: I get this kind of...for lack of a better term..."liar's ping" when someone is telling me something they know is a lie, at times. Like something just literally rings wrong with what is coming out of their mouth and what they are thinking is the opposite of what they are saying, like they are at cross-purposes. I've never called someone out on this to their face before--probably no point to getting confrontational--but I know if I get that feeling, not to believe what they say. I nod, smile, say "okay then," and move on with my life, assuming that what they said meant nothing, and I've never been wrong to assume that.
Sorry to hear he's a flake and bail, but at least hopefully money is saved.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:16 PM on November 20 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: You know one thing I can't get out of my head is how at the end of the second phone call he went into a bit of a speech about how we've known each other for a long time even if we aren't close, but "if you ever need anything, just know you can count on me". And I thanked him for the shoulder to lean on if I needed it, but didn't say "well, you suggested this trip and didn't follow through with it so count on you to do WHAT, exactly?"
posted by hippybear at 1:46 PM on November 21 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 1:46 PM on November 21 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry. This whole thing sounds like a PITA and I'm glad you're out of it.
Sounds like they're well-meaning but can't executive function (I say that in a 'takes one to know one' way, not knocking!) and perhaps for a short-term crisis they'd drop everything for you but more long-term planning they can't do.
You've disengaged, which is healthy, and it sounds like you aren't likely to run into them soon. Sounds like a good thing, though I don't think it precludes getting together another time quite a bit down the road either.
posted by esoteric things at 10:36 AM on November 22
Sounds like they're well-meaning but can't executive function (I say that in a 'takes one to know one' way, not knocking!) and perhaps for a short-term crisis they'd drop everything for you but more long-term planning they can't do.
You've disengaged, which is healthy, and it sounds like you aren't likely to run into them soon. Sounds like a good thing, though I don't think it precludes getting together another time quite a bit down the road either.
posted by esoteric things at 10:36 AM on November 22
I can't claim to understand it, but some people say goodbye to you while making it sound like they're going to still be around in your life. I've had that happen to me before, and I'm reminded of Roger Ebert's "a leave of presence" farewell message before his death.
I would be really surprised if you ever hear from this guy again, to be honest. It sounds like he's fading away. All you can do is be all, "that's good to hear" and then in your head, know you probably can't count on him, really. If he ever wants to initiate again, great, but I wouldn't put effort into this one at this point.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:19 PM on November 22 [1 favorite]
I would be really surprised if you ever hear from this guy again, to be honest. It sounds like he's fading away. All you can do is be all, "that's good to hear" and then in your head, know you probably can't count on him, really. If he ever wants to initiate again, great, but I wouldn't put effort into this one at this point.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:19 PM on November 22 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Our last phone call ended with me telling him I'd call him on Saturday to see what the situation with his job is. I plan to keep this commitment as his failure to be in communication with me on the schedule he had set, repeatedly, is part of what led to this situation. I'm still not entirely sure what I'm going to say in that conversation, and the conversation would be entirely different from the voicemail I would leave if he doesn't answer.
I guess the point I'm at with this is, he left a deep impression on my life years ago, and while I'm pursuing a friendship maybe I didn't make enough of an impression on him for him to respond my pursuit of continuing friendship with any care.
So I'll make that phone call, and after that, it'll be up to him to move toward me.
posted by hippybear at 4:00 PM on November 22
I guess the point I'm at with this is, he left a deep impression on my life years ago, and while I'm pursuing a friendship maybe I didn't make enough of an impression on him for him to respond my pursuit of continuing friendship with any care.
So I'll make that phone call, and after that, it'll be up to him to move toward me.
posted by hippybear at 4:00 PM on November 22
His issues sound severe enough that it sounds like it might be worth considering how to invest less emotional energy in this and take it less personally. The conclusion is right - give him space and if he comes back around, then consider it. But this "I didn't make enough of an impression" stuff... It's very unclear what's happening with him (stress-induced medical issues, re-entering the stressful situation, friend dying, or chronic lying due to ... what? a drug addiction? lack of executive function coupled with shame?). But it's not like if he loved you enough he'd be healthy and not anemic/grieving/addicted/whatever. And this stuff about telling him about your broken psyche, maybe it was helpful to him to hear, but as a reader detached from this situation, it seems to me that it's like, it doesn't really help to explain to an iceberg that its coldness is really hard for you to bear because of your own vulnerabilities -- it isn't intentionally being cold to hurt you, and neither can it become less cold -- so the question is just how to quickly pack up and move back to more temperate locations. It might not be this simple, and if I were in your shoes, I'd probably have all of the same thoughts and more. (I'd hope he could function better because I'd have memories of that and have a harder time accepting his limited capacity, for instance.) But from afar it comes across like he's got big issues that you're sadly ending up getting hurt by as an innocent bystander and instead of saying "okay, hope you feel better, good bye," you're vacillating between feeling like it's about you, hoping he can give you more, and then shaming him (at least in your own head) for not being able to meet you halfway. I wonder if it would be easier on you both if you could let go of that and see this as him just really having some big problem and try to think about it compassionately like, "okay wow he has some problems going on, and I don't need that in my life, but I hope he's okay" as you get some distance from him.
Like if he doesn't pick up I'd just say that it was good to catch up and looks like tonight didn't work for him after all, and I hope that work situation eases up for him.
Anyway, please ignore this comment if it isn't helpful, but as a distant bystander with limited information, this is the impression I'm getting. And I'm sorry that your friend isn't able to care for you the way you deserve and that you've had to deal with this whole stressful plan/unplan a vacation situation.
posted by slidell at 6:26 PM on November 22
Like if he doesn't pick up I'd just say that it was good to catch up and looks like tonight didn't work for him after all, and I hope that work situation eases up for him.
Anyway, please ignore this comment if it isn't helpful, but as a distant bystander with limited information, this is the impression I'm getting. And I'm sorry that your friend isn't able to care for you the way you deserve and that you've had to deal with this whole stressful plan/unplan a vacation situation.
posted by slidell at 6:26 PM on November 22
Response by poster: Certainly I can ruminate in this thread about how I feel about things but not actually plan on communicating any of those items to that person? I'm having feelings. That's okay, I hope.
posted by hippybear at 7:07 PM on November 22 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 7:07 PM on November 22 [3 favorites]
Sure it is. But (if I can ruminate in dialogue with you here), it sounds like part of what is evoking those feelings are thoughts like "maybe I didn't make enough of an impression on him," and I don't think it's about that at all. He seems to have a lot of wish to stay connected to you.
posted by slidell at 11:33 PM on November 22
posted by slidell at 11:33 PM on November 22
Response by poster: I'll dialogue about this.
He doesn't seem to have much wish to stay connected with me. I pushed with occasional reaching out every six months or so for a couple of years before he responded. He only responded when my email said "I feel like I'm pestering you with these emails so I won't bother you again". His response led to this trip invitation that he had no follow-through for.
I will call him on Saturday, I have nothing ill to say toward him. This is all about how MY buttons were being pressed by this situation, and I have very little real information about his life. My goal is to leave the door open for him to reach toward me if he would like to have me more in his life, but to make it clear that he likely won't hear from me again if he doesn't do that. And to do that with utmost kindness because he's obviously going through a thing, whatever it might be.
posted by hippybear at 2:12 PM on November 23 [1 favorite]
He doesn't seem to have much wish to stay connected with me. I pushed with occasional reaching out every six months or so for a couple of years before he responded. He only responded when my email said "I feel like I'm pestering you with these emails so I won't bother you again". His response led to this trip invitation that he had no follow-through for.
I will call him on Saturday, I have nothing ill to say toward him. This is all about how MY buttons were being pressed by this situation, and I have very little real information about his life. My goal is to leave the door open for him to reach toward me if he would like to have me more in his life, but to make it clear that he likely won't hear from me again if he doesn't do that. And to do that with utmost kindness because he's obviously going through a thing, whatever it might be.
posted by hippybear at 2:12 PM on November 23 [1 favorite]
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I would try contacting him again. Whether you do it by text, email or phone call, you've only tried contacting him once after a few months of silence, so I would try again.
I'm in favour of him transferring the ticket to you. You've got your plane ticket already and assuming he does actually have the tickets, the easiest thing would be to transfer it to you rather than him selling it or eating the cost (though I guess it's easy to resell tickets these days).
I would send a simple message, not demanding, but asking "hey I hope things are going OK with you. Could you transfer the ticket to my Ticketmaster account? I realize you have a lot going on so maybe the easiest thing is to transfer the ticket to me and I can Venmo/PayPal the money to you and I'll see you there."
posted by foxjacket at 9:07 PM on November 17 [13 favorites]