Need “dad” level advice on car and finances

October 1, 2023 5:31 PM

I’m making (small) payments on a 2014 Honda CRV, bought in 2018. It’s starting to show some wear and tear, and I’m getting worried I should trade it in.

This was my first car new enough to need payments, so I’ve obviously never needed to trade one in for a later model. I planned on driving this car into the ground, once paid off… as it’s a Honda! But now I’m rethinking?

Particulars:
- I bought it certified-preowned from a Honda dealership in 2018, but it’s almost 10 years old
- I pay $266 a month, and have $3000 left on the loan
- The KBB trade-in value is about $7,500
- When purchased, it had 89K miles on it. It now has 160K (I drive long distances frequently)
- I’ve been religious about basic maintenance
- The new “wear and tear” mentioned is: pulling to the left and left-tire rattling, even though I’ve had multiple alignments and rotations; the center console display died and should cost approximately $450 to fix; there’s a shuddering when I accelerate slowly, which the mechanic hasn’t been able to replicate reliably

I’m kinda worried about being upside down on a car that is becoming (maybe, possibly??) unreliable more quickly than expected. But then again, it’s a *Honda* and maybe I’m just being weird! If I didn’t still have payments, I wouldn’t be concerned at all.

So! If you were my family, what would your advice be?

posted by functionequalsform to Travel & Transportation (17 answers total)

Best answer: I’m not clear why you’re worried about becoming upside down on a car that’s worth twice what you owe. It sounds like you might need a different mechanic to look at it — maybe there’s a differential issue and/or a cv joint issue? But a 2013 Honda with 120k on it is a solid car to have, even if you have to put a couple thousand into it over the next couple years.

If you were my family member I’d say, finish paying off your car and use it in good health.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 5:40 PM on October 1, 2023 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: (Not gonna threadsit, but it has *160K* miles on it. But hopefully your advice stands regardless!)
posted by functionequalsform at 5:51 PM on October 1, 2023

You know, it does! That’s definitely more (thanks for catching that!) but I’d hope to make 225k I think. Maybe more — big Honda fan although I don’t know anything super specific to the model/trim and model year.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 6:00 PM on October 1, 2023 [1 favorite]

I agree with keep the car, find another mechanic. Sounds like the engine is running well? That's the part you got the Honda for. The wear items, well, they wear out. But a Honda engine keeps on keeping on.
posted by Dashy at 6:11 PM on October 1, 2023 [2 favorites]

Best answer: As stated above, I have no idea why you're concerned about being upside down on a loan. Beyond the fact that your car isn't upside down, there's no inherent problem with being upside down on a loan - your car still provides you utility even if others value it less than you do.

I find that most people radically overestimate the cost of repairs to an older car, and radically underestimate the cost of a replacement car. Let's say everything above needs repair. Let's say the rattling and shudder cost $1000 each. That's all of $2450 total in repairs. That's roughly $200/month. Can you get a replacement car, with trade-in, for less than $466/month, with a loan that'll be paid off in a year or two? I strongly suspect not. Let's say that level of repair continues every year. In two years, you'll be paying $200/month in repairs - but that's still cheaper than a replacement vehicle, and you won't be paying for your loan anymore.

At your car's age, you should start planning for repairs. I have an older, and higher mileage car, and it's maybe worth $4000 if I'm lucky. I plan for $2000-$3000/year in maintenance/repairs. That sounds crazy - but I can absolutely not find any replacement car anywhere near the price of repairs. More importantly, I've never actually had that high repair cost on any particular year. I plan for it so when those repair bills come in, I'm not surprised, and I'm prepared for them.

I do think you should consider getting an AAA membership, or similar club if you are not USA-ian.
posted by saeculorum at 6:59 PM on October 1, 2023 [16 favorites]

You should also consider how you use the car, and think about exactly what an unexpected breakdown might mean for you. There are cars I'd feel fine puttering about town with, but would be pretty nervous about relying on for long road trips or backwoods outdoorsy stuff.
posted by kickingtheground at 8:02 PM on October 1, 2023 [4 favorites]

Cars last a lot longer than they used to, esp. Hondas. Sounds like you maintain it well. I'd pay it off, if I could afford to, and I'd start a savings fund for the next car. Cars are still pretty expensive right now, a side effect of the Pandemic, so waiting and saving seems like a good plan.
posted by theora55 at 8:11 PM on October 1, 2023

nthing the 'keep it' idea. With proper maintenance your Honda probably has another 40K miles in it, or more. Also nthing the idea of getting another mechanic, or a Honda dealer's shop of they are reputable in your area.

Left tire rattling could be the CV joints as someone mentioned. Pulling to the left could be a result of that, also have bushings checked on your sway bars (I just had that done on my 2013 and had to replace them, about $550).

Details on 'center console died' would be helpful, but have someone check all the cables that connect to it, and any fuses you can find related to it.
posted by TimHare at 8:58 PM on October 1, 2023

I would keep the car, but would recommend you find a new mechanic. If you were in Madison, I would recommend Hansen’s on Park Street. Their parking lot is filled with 10+ year old Hondas and Toyotas, that they specialize in just keeping running.
posted by rockindata at 10:51 PM on October 1, 2023

Nthing "new mechanic," especially one who is on the same page about keeping old Hondas/Toyotas going forever.

I drive a 2000 Camry with under 200K on it. I've had to replace some things, but the engine is solid, and even a few $600 repairs is less than a new car payment would be. I am able to put whatever I'd otherwise spend on a car payment into savings, most months.
posted by needs more cowbell at 3:40 AM on October 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Honey it's (not your) dad here. Hope you're well. Mom says hi.

Keep the car. Sounds like you've got a year of payments left. If you can afford it, double them or just pay the car off. With routine maintenance and occasional repairs you should manage another 100k miles. From a financial perspective I suggest paying it off because right now you have $3192 of annual car payments. So if you pay it off you have $3192 of annual repair budget.

The pulling to left and rattle is a wheel bearing. Get it fixed. Probably around $3-400. Bearings for your car are under $100 per and this is a 1-2 hours labor thing. Labor is pretty much $100-125 an hour most places now. Any halfway decent mechanic should be able to diagnose in about 30 seconds for free and repair quickly.

The shudder on acceleration per some googling looks like it could be an egr valve (if you have YouTube and are mildly handy this is a plug and 2 small bolts. A 5 minute job or about $400 at a shop) or a vtec solenoid which is a shop thing, no idea on cost which usually means $1k. For what it's worth I'd take it a dealership for this, get some reviews and find one with good scores on service. They might know right off the top of the their head about the shudder and also may be able to interpret codes. There also appears to be a recall on your car for the vtec actuator and some firmware updates.

I'd also have a dealership do their multi point inspection. Sometimes if you have them do a repaired they wave the cost otherwise it's like $150.

Don't lose your nerve, you're on a good plan here.

Ahem err. Love ya kid. Hang in there.
Dad
posted by chasles at 3:51 AM on October 2, 2023 [12 favorites]

I just spent a lot ($3600) on my 20-year-old Honda, and there are still a few things wrong with it (I chose not to get the AC repaired because it was September... time enough to worry about that in 6-8 months). Given all the repairs that it needed, I probably only could have gotten $2-3K for the car if I'd sold it before the repairs. So I arguably paid more for it than it was worth? But now it's worth a lot more because it has (for example) a new catalytic converter.

My car's paid off so the "underwater" thing doesn't really come into play but could I have gotten a car that I like as much as this car for $3600 (the cost of the repairs) plus $3000 (the price I could maaaaybe have sold it for)? I could not! I did think about cutting my losses and getting a newer, more expensive car that I would like *more* than my current car, but nothing was really catching my fancy and on finances alone, keeping this car is not a bad decision for me.

If you're worried about not being able to come up with the money for repairs, start a savings account (or envelope under the mattress or whatever) and put in $50-100 a month (I assume my car will need about $1000 worth of repairs a year - but I avoided dealing with a few things for a year or two, whoops).

I do recommend having some kind of roadside assistance - I get mine through my insurance and it costs like $10 every six months. I've had to get the car towed twice in seven years (once for the alternator, with Geico, and once for stuck brakes, with Progressive) and it was pretty easy both times.

One thing to note though: I am in the happy position of not actually *needing* a car - the car makes my life more convenient but I can get anywhere I need to go on a daily/weekly basis without it. Your overall transportation situation matters here - if you live out in the country with your kids and no second car/a second car that's with a spouse who's gone from 6AM-6PM, or you need your car to commute to your time-sensitive workplace, or you actually use your car for work, you may want/need to prioritize reliability over car costs. But if this car is working for you (even assuming it has to spend a day or two in the shop every year), you can keep using it!

In re: "dad" advice: my dad thinks I am silly for keeping this car (and wants me to buy his 10-year-old Acura when he replaces it soon)
posted by mskyle at 4:09 AM on October 2, 2023

My answer will depend on where you live. My 2010 CR-V was just recalled -- and I believe yours is part of the recall -- for rust. I took mine in and they applied a "fix" to keep the wheels from falling off. Then they handed me the keys back and without a pause told me the car won't pass inspection in my state (Vermont) because Vermont has the audacity to check frames for rust and not just look at emissions. We had to fight with Honda for weeks before they gave their final opinion that they fixed it and won't be doing more. The recall notice had said that they would fix the car or buy the car back. So now I have a car I can't sell, and 6 months to buy another before the CR-V is up for inspection -- or something goes wrong. (Did I mention the fix also introduced a horrible rattling noise?)

So if you live in an area with lots of snow, ice, rain, etc you may want to investigate getting another vehicle. You certainly should check to see if you had a recall and have it looked at. I hope your next car won't be a Honda. I know we won't be buying another.
posted by terrapin at 5:45 AM on October 2, 2023

IMO: I don't think Honda SUVs are particularly all that reliable, and I have no problem thinking replacing your front suspension parts will easily be $2000 and guess what? If your front ones are in that condition, you probably need rear ones too.


I don't think it's nearly as cut and dried, though I generally agree with the advice given.

Also, you have no idea what else will break. I've probably spent $4k this year on my Honda minivan, only 2 years older than yours, only slightly more mileage. And it currently has a deferred maintenance list of another $4k. And that's all 'regular maintenance' items - not broken things, but money is money and it's the same either way.

You are simply taking a risk that putting some money into it will last 3+ years, without having to spend approximately the same amount every year, which would roughly equal car payments for those years.


IMO: it's 50/50.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:20 AM on October 2, 2023

My 2006 Honda Element had the slow speed shuddering and it turned out to be the sway bar bushings, which was about 100$ to get fixed. I read this is an under-diagnosed problem because when on a hoist the assembly is a dead weight and dampens the movement, but when the car is sitting on its wheels you can grab the bar(s) and if it moves, it may need attention. In fact I diagnosed it myself after the garage couldn't.

In general, Toyotas are not really the beasts that they once were, and Hondas may well not be either. Read some neutral sources on 2014 CRV aging before you make blanket assumptions about how bulletproof they are - though I feel like I can get another 5 years out of my Honda and therefore put a new clutch into it this year.
posted by Rumple at 11:48 AM on October 2, 2023

FYI, consumerreports.org says that it is 2007 through 2011 CR-Vs that are being recalled due to rust. Based on that, your car is not included.

I drive a 2007 Mazda3 that I bought new. I continue to drive it because it still runs. It has 160,000 miles on it. Sure, I put some money into it for car repairs from time to time, but at this point doing so is still a lot cheaper than buying a newer car.

Your car is going to be paid off in a year. I'd definitely hang on to it and just find a good mechanic to fix whatever's wrong with it. After it's paid off, put use that $266 for future repairs and for savings to buy a car somewhere down the road after your current car really does bite the dust.

I wouldn't even ever bother taking trade-in or resale value into account when considering whether to buy a new or newer car.

I vote for drive it into the ground.
posted by SageTrail at 11:49 AM on October 2, 2023

Best answer: Well, it should have 2-3 years left in it at your mileage rate. Car prices are still high. I’d be inclined to pay it off, budget a little more for maintenance and see how things are in a year or two.
posted by plonkee at 1:07 AM on October 3, 2023 [1 favorite]