Where is the quality of life pretty good in the US
July 25, 2023 4:07 PM Subscribe
Where is life pretty good in the US? Qualities I find 'pretty good':
- Walkable/bikeable/good transit
- Left or at least not fascist local politics - queers live openly here hopefully, not famously racist
- Somewhat less apocalyptic in terms of climate
- Some kind of art/music/literature community
- There are some good restaurants
- Access to nature
- Not excessively unfriendly
I'm sure similar questions have been asked so feel free to point me to those.
First come to mind in New England at various scales: Pioneer Valley, MA (Northampton, Deerfield, Greenfield etc.). Montpelier and Brattleboro, VT (well basically all of Vermont). Porstmouth, NH. Portland, ME. Providence, RI though that brings city-scale anxieties in certain ways.
posted by BlackPebble at 4:19 PM on July 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by BlackPebble at 4:19 PM on July 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
Ann Arbor, although a lot of its more bohemian culture is being priced out, and gentrification has resulted in it being a lot whiter than many places people would assume are more racist. It might also fail on transit if you're comparing to a big city or anywhere in Europe, but it has one of the better college town bus systems I've experienced.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 4:21 PM on July 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 4:21 PM on July 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
Any of a long list of smaller towns/cities with colleges and universities will provide much of what you are listing as criteria -- college towns are almost (but not entirely) universally liberal-ish, for example. Further dialing in by costs and/or by geography might get you more targeted suggestions.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:22 PM on July 25, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 4:22 PM on July 25, 2023 [7 favorites]
Sounds like Philadelphia to me. A lot like Ann Arbor, which is also a lovely town, but in Philly there's still public transit and the housing prices haven't gone completely off the deep end. Also lots of public art!
posted by fifthrider at 4:23 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by fifthrider at 4:23 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Chicago!
posted by capricorn at 4:26 PM on July 25, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by capricorn at 4:26 PM on July 25, 2023 [14 favorites]
Philadelphia also has the benefit of being the most walkable city in the US.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:31 PM on July 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:31 PM on July 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
Madison tops many “best places to live” lists for a reason. Checks most of your boxes, though not famously racist Madison has a LOT of unacknowleged structural racism.
posted by rockindata at 4:35 PM on July 25, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by rockindata at 4:35 PM on July 25, 2023 [9 favorites]
Northeast, midwest, and Pacific northwest are your best bets for climate, and then urban centers or college towns within those regions. How big of a city do you want, and how much of a non-white population?
Portland, Oregon is perhaps famously racist, and certainly pretty white at about 70%, but folks moving here looking for diverse neighborhoods can find them if that's high on their priority list, as it was for my family. I'd skip Oregon otherwise. I can't speak to much of Washington, but of course there's Seattle, which is also about 70% white.
The tricky part is when you're looking for all these criteria and some place affordable. That's a lot more difficult.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:39 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Portland, Oregon is perhaps famously racist, and certainly pretty white at about 70%, but folks moving here looking for diverse neighborhoods can find them if that's high on their priority list, as it was for my family. I'd skip Oregon otherwise. I can't speak to much of Washington, but of course there's Seattle, which is also about 70% white.
The tricky part is when you're looking for all these criteria and some place affordable. That's a lot more difficult.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:39 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Only parts of Portland are walkable. EDIT: OK, lots of it is walkable. Depends on where you are starting, and where you are hoping to walk I guess. They do have light rail though. And it is expensive.
Very few parts of Seattle are walkable, maybe out in some of the suburbs. But it is even more expensive.
My first thought was the college town of Eugene, OR.
Missoula, MT has a lot of this feel, but, Montana.
I think there are tons of small-ish towns with some of your amenities/needs.
posted by Windopaene at 4:53 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Very few parts of Seattle are walkable, maybe out in some of the suburbs. But it is even more expensive.
My first thought was the college town of Eugene, OR.
Missoula, MT has a lot of this feel, but, Montana.
I think there are tons of small-ish towns with some of your amenities/needs.
posted by Windopaene at 4:53 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah Philly is it. Less expensive and more walkable than Chicago with a better arts scene (proximity to New York helps on that score.) Super easy to get out of the city for nature and it has one of the best restaurant scenes in the country. Climate change here is fine I guess, certainly better than a lot of places. Mostly it’s just hotter than it used to be.
Queer visibility is great but PA is a purple state so YMMV, right now the election headwinds mean that we usually have a Dem governor so they can veto the egregious shit.
Public transit in Philly sucks. I’m tired of doing the “it’s good for the States” dance—nah, it flat out sucks. Public transit is never going to improve anywhere in the United States if we don’t start calling it like it is.
posted by rhymedirective at 4:54 PM on July 25, 2023 [9 favorites]
Queer visibility is great but PA is a purple state so YMMV, right now the election headwinds mean that we usually have a Dem governor so they can veto the egregious shit.
Public transit in Philly sucks. I’m tired of doing the “it’s good for the States” dance—nah, it flat out sucks. Public transit is never going to improve anywhere in the United States if we don’t start calling it like it is.
posted by rhymedirective at 4:54 PM on July 25, 2023 [9 favorites]
I will say Richmond, Virginia, although the state government is a huge mess (including the current governor but Virginia limits its governors to one term so he'll be gone). The surrounding area is not great in terms of racism (it's polite Southern racism but it's still racism) but the city itself is pretty great. It has always seemed pretty queer-friendly to me overall, even in the '90s when I was living there. (I am actively planning on moving back, if that helps.)
It defintely has an up-and-coming food scene and a lot of nature nearby. It's hot and humid in the summer and will continue to get worse with climate change but that's everywhere.
Mass transit is not great (there's a decent-ish bus system but it has its limits) but it's small enough that it's bikeable (and has gotten more so!). Walkability depends on where you live but it's not ... terrible.
The artistic scene in Richmond is great. VCU has a great arts program and a lot of people stay. It's still relatively cheap enough that it's doable for a lot of people.
Like I've said, I'm planning on moving back in the next couple of years because I want a lot of the same things you do. It's not perfect but it may be worth looking into.
posted by edencosmic at 4:57 PM on July 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
It defintely has an up-and-coming food scene and a lot of nature nearby. It's hot and humid in the summer and will continue to get worse with climate change but that's everywhere.
Mass transit is not great (there's a decent-ish bus system but it has its limits) but it's small enough that it's bikeable (and has gotten more so!). Walkability depends on where you live but it's not ... terrible.
The artistic scene in Richmond is great. VCU has a great arts program and a lot of people stay. It's still relatively cheap enough that it's doable for a lot of people.
Like I've said, I'm planning on moving back in the next couple of years because I want a lot of the same things you do. It's not perfect but it may be worth looking into.
posted by edencosmic at 4:57 PM on July 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
I would not move south of the Mason-Dixon line, because of Climate. Vermont seemed the ideal Climate refuge, then had these recent severe floods. Pittsburgh and Cleveland are interesting and underrated. The Great Lakes are pretty terrific. The New England coast is pretty great; I live in near Portland, where housing has skyrocketed, but ithe whole area is as you describe.
posted by theora55 at 5:04 PM on July 25, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 5:04 PM on July 25, 2023 [6 favorites]
Rochester and Buffalo NY, if you can handle snow
posted by Amy93 at 5:05 PM on July 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Amy93 at 5:05 PM on July 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
Second Amy93 for Buffalo. Yes we do get a bit of snow...and I hope you like wings and football.
posted by Czjewel at 5:13 PM on July 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Czjewel at 5:13 PM on July 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
Another vote for Pittsburgh. Can be walkable depending on where you live in the city. Easy access to parks. Weather isn't too bad, we get snow but nowhere near Buffalo/Erie these days. Housing prices are still decent. Philly is probably more queer friendly but more expensive.
posted by cozenedindigo at 5:18 PM on July 25, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by cozenedindigo at 5:18 PM on July 25, 2023 [6 favorites]
I don't have a particular city/place in mind, but once you have some finalists, I think it's worth looking at how you want some of your different desired features of a possible place to live to interact in your daily life.
Taking "walkable/bikeable/good transit" and "somewhat less apocalyptic in terms of climate": let's say you'd like to rely on public transport, walking and cycling in this place as your everyday way of getting around, even if you still chose to have a car.
This would be something you'd be able to benefit from only with good scheduling and funding for transit, local transit agencies being run well, and safe, maintained sidewalks or bike lanes through all four seasons.
So if you're considering somewhere with a snowy winter, it's worth looking at questions like:
- Do the buses still run relatively reliably after a snowstorm? What about trains?
- Are the sidewalks plowed or shoveled? What about bike lanes?
- Who is responsible for sidewalk snow clearance? Does it get done at all?
- Does the snowplow system push the snow out of the main roadway, but then onto sidewalks and bike lanes, prioritizing car users?
And if you don't like what you learn about a city, you might also investigate whether, or to what extent, it would be possible to change those things. In this example from Sweden, the sidewalk is plowed first as a gender-equality and inclusion measure, before main roads, so parents can take their kids to school before driving to work. Who is doing work like this in the places you're looking?
Good luck!
posted by mdonley at 5:18 PM on July 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
Taking "walkable/bikeable/good transit" and "somewhat less apocalyptic in terms of climate": let's say you'd like to rely on public transport, walking and cycling in this place as your everyday way of getting around, even if you still chose to have a car.
This would be something you'd be able to benefit from only with good scheduling and funding for transit, local transit agencies being run well, and safe, maintained sidewalks or bike lanes through all four seasons.
So if you're considering somewhere with a snowy winter, it's worth looking at questions like:
- Do the buses still run relatively reliably after a snowstorm? What about trains?
- Are the sidewalks plowed or shoveled? What about bike lanes?
- Who is responsible for sidewalk snow clearance? Does it get done at all?
- Does the snowplow system push the snow out of the main roadway, but then onto sidewalks and bike lanes, prioritizing car users?
And if you don't like what you learn about a city, you might also investigate whether, or to what extent, it would be possible to change those things. In this example from Sweden, the sidewalk is plowed first as a gender-equality and inclusion measure, before main roads, so parents can take their kids to school before driving to work. Who is doing work like this in the places you're looking?
Good luck!
posted by mdonley at 5:18 PM on July 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
Well, you didn't say anything about it being affordable, so I think Brooklyn covers all of your requirements. The cost of living, and especially housing, is the major downside.
posted by Ragged Richard at 5:23 PM on July 25, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Ragged Richard at 5:23 PM on July 25, 2023 [6 favorites]
Seconding Philadelphia, although depends where you live. I spent two years in the Fairmount/Art Museum neighborhood and it has everything you describe. Transit is fine in Center City; regional rail has the well-deserved nickname "regional fail" though it does run to the airport and to an impressively large urban park
posted by basalganglia at 5:34 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by basalganglia at 5:34 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have an extensive discussion in another conference with The Correspondent on the Continent regarding the least worse place to live. If there in interest I can bring over many more links, but I think this one has the most bang for the buck.
https://www.movemap.io/explore/us
The answer for me seemed to be Washington County, Vermont.
posted by ob1quixote at 5:45 PM on July 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
https://www.movemap.io/explore/us
The answer for me seemed to be Washington County, Vermont.
posted by ob1quixote at 5:45 PM on July 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
First, I'd add that Connecticut has most of the New England values mentioned above. An interesting thing about this state is it doesn't have any really big cities. CT and MA have the reputation of being expense, but their economies are based on well educated work forces with reasonable pay.
Second, I know of a two wives, two children family that has lived in Cambridge, Mass and various places in Maryland close to DC. They have not had any overwhelming issues with government, schools, or neighbors.
I have a soft spot for Rhode Island. Small as the state is, it's half woods.
posted by SemiSalt at 6:01 PM on July 25, 2023
Second, I know of a two wives, two children family that has lived in Cambridge, Mass and various places in Maryland close to DC. They have not had any overwhelming issues with government, schools, or neighbors.
I have a soft spot for Rhode Island. Small as the state is, it's half woods.
posted by SemiSalt at 6:01 PM on July 25, 2023
Response by poster: Re: price: I currently live in one of the most expensive places on earth (SF Bay Area) so I guess if I were to live out this fantasy I would sell my Bay Area house and I am a nurse so employable wherever although pay varies quite a bit. So I don't know, I could probably make it work wherever in the US. I don't want to live in astronomically expensive places but it would be hard to get worse than where I am now in that regard.
posted by latkes at 6:06 PM on July 25, 2023
posted by latkes at 6:06 PM on July 25, 2023
I'd also recommend Richmond (artsy, small, queer-friendly) but I must remember where I am and that recommending anything south of the Mason-Dixon line and east of California will be taken as the equivalent of recommending a fresh nuclear testing site.
So Buffalo/Rochester. Get that nice old house in cash and post pics!
posted by kingdead at 6:21 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
So Buffalo/Rochester. Get that nice old house in cash and post pics!
posted by kingdead at 6:21 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
You’ll be hard-pressed to find somewhere that fits your criteria better than the place in which you already live. (Hello from a nurse the East Bay!)
posted by jesourie at 6:34 PM on July 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by jesourie at 6:34 PM on July 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
DC and 'burbs have a pretty good Goldilocks factor, as long as you don't have to drive anywhere.
posted by credulous at 6:35 PM on July 25, 2023
posted by credulous at 6:35 PM on July 25, 2023
Thirding Buffalo, NY (or as I call it, Beautiful River). The politics could be more left, but we are trying!
posted by Riverine at 6:42 PM on July 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Riverine at 6:42 PM on July 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
Upstate New York, much of Vermont, Western Mass are a mix in that some places there meet all of your criteria, and they are not far from places that are very Trump-y. Also the opioid epidemic has hit a lot of those places hard, although I suppose that is true across much of the country.
But FWIW I am a NYC person who has pretty much the same requirements as you and sometimes entertains moving out of the city but not too far, and usually I end up Zillow-browsing either upstate NY (mostly the Hudson Valley though it has become much more expensive in the recent years -- still nowhere near SF of course) or Philly.
posted by virve at 6:42 PM on July 25, 2023
But FWIW I am a NYC person who has pretty much the same requirements as you and sometimes entertains moving out of the city but not too far, and usually I end up Zillow-browsing either upstate NY (mostly the Hudson Valley though it has become much more expensive in the recent years -- still nowhere near SF of course) or Philly.
posted by virve at 6:42 PM on July 25, 2023
Hello from st Petersburg Florida, the reason Florida is a swing state.
Walkable/bikeable/good transit
walkable. Absolutely. Transit. Yup and improving. We have a new loop trolly that's free, a growing water ferry, and the new cross bay bridge has a level built in for possible light rail.
Left or at least not fascist local politics
Yup. Quite. But in a positive way. E.g. Our police department engaged with the city and city council and with realistic funding turned on a community and mental health response group for non violent response to calls that don't require guns.
queers live openly here hopefully
Yup. One of the largest pride events globally every year. Extremely friendly location.
not famously racist
Very diverse and inclusive. Tainted history but we elected the first African American mayor last year, have an African American police chief, and a very diverse city council.
Somewhat less apocalyptic in terms of climate
I... Well. Ya. Not sure how to parse this. The weather's terrific here. 50 years from now is a a toss up I suppose. Pass.
Some kind of art/music/literature community
The beatnik writers loved it here. Kerouac etc. Haslams book store and other small book stores. Tons of live music at small and mid size venues. The 2nd largest reggae festival in USA. Salvador Dali museum. Art museum. James museum of the west. Holocaust museum. Dale chilouly museum. Florida orchestra. And all of those things are a 5ish minutes walk from each other.
There are some good restaurants
Shit ya. And more every day. Seriously. An amazing food culture here. The number 1 or 2 steak restaurant in America is across the bay. No shortage of seafood that came right off the boat behind the restaurant. And for raw materials a Vibrant non Caucasian market culture (chines, Korean, afrocuban, etc)
Access to nature
One of the largest public park networks on a waterfront in the USA (I'm gonna say 7th?) mid peninsula has several large format county and state parks. Drive south over the sunshine skyway and you're into central Florida, northern Everglades. Drive North east and things get (a tiny bit) hilly and arboreal.
Not excessively unfriendly
We're freaking amazing. OK seriously, it's a very friendly place.
posted by chasles at 7:26 PM on July 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
Walkable/bikeable/good transit
walkable. Absolutely. Transit. Yup and improving. We have a new loop trolly that's free, a growing water ferry, and the new cross bay bridge has a level built in for possible light rail.
Left or at least not fascist local politics
Yup. Quite. But in a positive way. E.g. Our police department engaged with the city and city council and with realistic funding turned on a community and mental health response group for non violent response to calls that don't require guns.
queers live openly here hopefully
Yup. One of the largest pride events globally every year. Extremely friendly location.
not famously racist
Very diverse and inclusive. Tainted history but we elected the first African American mayor last year, have an African American police chief, and a very diverse city council.
Somewhat less apocalyptic in terms of climate
I... Well. Ya. Not sure how to parse this. The weather's terrific here. 50 years from now is a a toss up I suppose. Pass.
Some kind of art/music/literature community
The beatnik writers loved it here. Kerouac etc. Haslams book store and other small book stores. Tons of live music at small and mid size venues. The 2nd largest reggae festival in USA. Salvador Dali museum. Art museum. James museum of the west. Holocaust museum. Dale chilouly museum. Florida orchestra. And all of those things are a 5ish minutes walk from each other.
There are some good restaurants
Shit ya. And more every day. Seriously. An amazing food culture here. The number 1 or 2 steak restaurant in America is across the bay. No shortage of seafood that came right off the boat behind the restaurant. And for raw materials a Vibrant non Caucasian market culture (chines, Korean, afrocuban, etc)
Access to nature
One of the largest public park networks on a waterfront in the USA (I'm gonna say 7th?) mid peninsula has several large format county and state parks. Drive south over the sunshine skyway and you're into central Florida, northern Everglades. Drive North east and things get (a tiny bit) hilly and arboreal.
Not excessively unfriendly
We're freaking amazing. OK seriously, it's a very friendly place.
posted by chasles at 7:26 PM on July 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
Vermont meets your criteria except maybe for "walkable/bikeable/good transit." It is possible to live in a place where you can walk or ride a bus to a lot of things but it would be pretty hard to live without even owning a car, if that's something you're hoping for. You also have to be willing to walk in snow and cold temperatures and the weather is only suitable for biking for about half the year. You'd probably need to be in Burlington or maybe Montpelier unless you can be satisfied with just one or two good restaurants. Vermont is a good place for people who care more about access to nature than about access to museums, concerts, restaurants and shopping.
Ithaca, NY would be another nice choice if you're willing to live somewhere that small (and cold and gloomy in winter.) There are probably a lot of other equally nice little college cities.
posted by Redstart at 7:41 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ithaca, NY would be another nice choice if you're willing to live somewhere that small (and cold and gloomy in winter.) There are probably a lot of other equally nice little college cities.
posted by Redstart at 7:41 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Lots of good ideas above, but New England is the best part of the USA! Look at the smaller cities and larger towns especially in MA, NH, RI, and CT. Sorry Maine you are too far north.
You're a nurse? The hospital here On Martha's Vineyard is always looking for help, and they have some employee housing and are working on getting more. Be warned however, the housing situation here is made even worse by the seasonal nature of the economy. But if one can figure that out the quality of life here can be really, really good.
Apologies to the rest of the country, I'm sure other places are just as groovy as New England.
posted by vrakatar at 7:41 PM on July 25, 2023
You're a nurse? The hospital here On Martha's Vineyard is always looking for help, and they have some employee housing and are working on getting more. Be warned however, the housing situation here is made even worse by the seasonal nature of the economy. But if one can figure that out the quality of life here can be really, really good.
Apologies to the rest of the country, I'm sure other places are just as groovy as New England.
posted by vrakatar at 7:41 PM on July 25, 2023
Western Mass in the area of North Adams/Williamstown has really impressed me. Loads of museums and nature, an interesting array of restaurants. You're 45-60 min. from Albany, NY for your very-large-city needs.
posted by BlahLaLa at 8:00 PM on July 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by BlahLaLa at 8:00 PM on July 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
Come to Tacoma!
posted by librarina at 10:24 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by librarina at 10:24 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Honolulu. Reliable bus system, lefty politics, lotsa natural beauty, arts if you look for it, reasonable climate. Historically strong labor unions. Real estate costs on par with San Francisco.
posted by olopua at 11:40 PM on July 25, 2023
posted by olopua at 11:40 PM on July 25, 2023
Great responses adding up here, but you might find value in flipping through some of City Nerd's popular videos. They break down rankings along various sets of metrics that might help you refine your decision-making criteria (because there are a few ways to approach some of your parameters).
I will weigh in and say that I am currently living outside the US after spending the last 20 years in DC, LA, and SF. None of those places feel sustainable to me anymore, even though living in them allowed me to be a no-car American for more than half my life. Nor do the rural southern wilds where I grew up. While I'm working abroad, I'm putting a lot of thought into where I might try to set down roots when I'm forced to go back to the States. I more or less have two lists: where can I live without a car (priority) and, if that's just not feasible, where can I live with the least car-owning misery?
Richmond, VA is high on the short list every time I do the math. I've been through many times and I can see it.
I wish Hawaii were more feasible, but it ends up being just as onerously expensive as DC, LA, SF with the added complexities that come with geographic isolation (like the costs of imported goods). I will keep checking the math on that one, though!
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:30 AM on July 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
I will weigh in and say that I am currently living outside the US after spending the last 20 years in DC, LA, and SF. None of those places feel sustainable to me anymore, even though living in them allowed me to be a no-car American for more than half my life. Nor do the rural southern wilds where I grew up. While I'm working abroad, I'm putting a lot of thought into where I might try to set down roots when I'm forced to go back to the States. I more or less have two lists: where can I live without a car (priority) and, if that's just not feasible, where can I live with the least car-owning misery?
Richmond, VA is high on the short list every time I do the math. I've been through many times and I can see it.
I wish Hawaii were more feasible, but it ends up being just as onerously expensive as DC, LA, SF with the added complexities that come with geographic isolation (like the costs of imported goods). I will keep checking the math on that one, though!
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:30 AM on July 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
Hello from Central Maryland!
Traffic in this state is notorious, but if you choose one of our many old-fashioned towns with a walkable core, you'll only use your vehicle for shopping runs.
I can hop a commuter rail to DC or Baltimore for day trips, and my family strolls into town for a snowball or a coffee. Politics are blue and people are neighborly.
posted by champers at 4:04 AM on July 26, 2023
Traffic in this state is notorious, but if you choose one of our many old-fashioned towns with a walkable core, you'll only use your vehicle for shopping runs.
I can hop a commuter rail to DC or Baltimore for day trips, and my family strolls into town for a snowball or a coffee. Politics are blue and people are neighborly.
posted by champers at 4:04 AM on July 26, 2023
Don't move to Hawaii (unless you are Native Hawaiian and returning home). It's a terrible choice from the climate change perspective: the fresh water is running out and the water that is available is contaminated by the military. But more importantly, Hawaii is an illegally occupied nation. The history of European imperialism and the subsequent US overthrow of the government is horrific. Don't perpetuate that.
posted by Mournful Bagel Song at 4:09 AM on July 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Mournful Bagel Song at 4:09 AM on July 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
Where is life pretty good in the US?
If you appear white, life in Baltimore is pretty good. If you are a person of color, and poor, life here is not so great. Since I have the privilege of whiteness, I'll describe how much I love it here.
Walkable/bikeable/good transit
Baltimore, much like Chicago and Pittsburgh, is a patchwork of walkable neighborhoods where each one has its own unique community feel. Many of these neighborhoods are connected to each other by ok public transit. Many are not, either because of shitty public transit coverage, or less safe neighborhoods in between them, or both. There are much used bike lanes in and connecting many neighborhoods. I live in a neighborhood pretty well served by buses (including one line of free buses), but also I don't have to rely on buses if I don't need to. All of our transit could be better. For example, we have two commuter rail systems that are completely disconnected. But we also have Amtrak and an international airport.
Left or at least not fascist local politics - queers live openly here hopefully, not famously racist
The state of MD is famously blue, mostly because of Baltimore and the DC suburbs in MD. Queers live openly.
Baltimore itself is pretty much one-party rule: Democrats. The local government is pretty famously corrupt, but then so are many city governments. The local police force is infamously corrupt.
Some kind of art/music/literature community
Baltimore is famous for bands moving here from bigger cities to make art at a lower cost of living to perform for friendlier audiences. We have the oldest art school in the country. We are home to a huge, welcoming DIY art scene. If you can think it up, you can sell tickets to it or publish it here. There are many thriving independent bookstores, at least a couple of which are also socialist collectives/co-ops. My Gen X husband played in punk and jazz bands for a couple of decades and still gets recognized by the olds when we are out and about. It's home to several well known authors who I see around town on the regular. There are constant literary events, and we are home to one of the oldest free library systems in the US.
There are some good restaurants
Baltimore's food scene is pretty great. If you know, you know. Example: Ekiben, Taiwanese-Ethiopian fusion.
Access to nature
Beaches, mountains, canals, biking and hiking trails, whitewater paddling, rock climbing all within 2 hours. Massive amount of green parks in the city limits. I live next to the main Hopkins campus. Every day I listen to "my" pair of barred owls hooting at me from a park/hiking trail, and I also live within 2 blocks of a couple dozen bars and restaurants.
Not excessively unfriendly
Pretty friendly within the neighborhoods-as-communities, for sure.
Other:
Cost of living is so much lower than in NY or DC. We paid about 350k for a house in a strong, cohesive neighborhood that itself has multiple local festivals each year. I can walk to most of my daily needs. You can barely turn around without seeing yet another hospital system, so a nurse should have no problem finding work here.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 5:50 AM on July 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
If you appear white, life in Baltimore is pretty good. If you are a person of color, and poor, life here is not so great. Since I have the privilege of whiteness, I'll describe how much I love it here.
Walkable/bikeable/good transit
Baltimore, much like Chicago and Pittsburgh, is a patchwork of walkable neighborhoods where each one has its own unique community feel. Many of these neighborhoods are connected to each other by ok public transit. Many are not, either because of shitty public transit coverage, or less safe neighborhoods in between them, or both. There are much used bike lanes in and connecting many neighborhoods. I live in a neighborhood pretty well served by buses (including one line of free buses), but also I don't have to rely on buses if I don't need to. All of our transit could be better. For example, we have two commuter rail systems that are completely disconnected. But we also have Amtrak and an international airport.
Left or at least not fascist local politics - queers live openly here hopefully, not famously racist
The state of MD is famously blue, mostly because of Baltimore and the DC suburbs in MD. Queers live openly.
Baltimore itself is pretty much one-party rule: Democrats. The local government is pretty famously corrupt, but then so are many city governments. The local police force is infamously corrupt.
Some kind of art/music/literature community
Baltimore is famous for bands moving here from bigger cities to make art at a lower cost of living to perform for friendlier audiences. We have the oldest art school in the country. We are home to a huge, welcoming DIY art scene. If you can think it up, you can sell tickets to it or publish it here. There are many thriving independent bookstores, at least a couple of which are also socialist collectives/co-ops. My Gen X husband played in punk and jazz bands for a couple of decades and still gets recognized by the olds when we are out and about. It's home to several well known authors who I see around town on the regular. There are constant literary events, and we are home to one of the oldest free library systems in the US.
There are some good restaurants
Baltimore's food scene is pretty great. If you know, you know. Example: Ekiben, Taiwanese-Ethiopian fusion.
Access to nature
Beaches, mountains, canals, biking and hiking trails, whitewater paddling, rock climbing all within 2 hours. Massive amount of green parks in the city limits. I live next to the main Hopkins campus. Every day I listen to "my" pair of barred owls hooting at me from a park/hiking trail, and I also live within 2 blocks of a couple dozen bars and restaurants.
Not excessively unfriendly
Pretty friendly within the neighborhoods-as-communities, for sure.
Other:
Cost of living is so much lower than in NY or DC. We paid about 350k for a house in a strong, cohesive neighborhood that itself has multiple local festivals each year. I can walk to most of my daily needs. You can barely turn around without seeing yet another hospital system, so a nurse should have no problem finding work here.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 5:50 AM on July 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
The actual answer to your question is Cleveland (or one of our inner-ring suburbs - Lakewood, Parma, Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, so on and so forth.) If you poke through my answer history I've posted "what to do when visiting Cleveland" answers that are big link fests that will give you an idea of how the metro area hits all your asks.
Acceptable second choices would be other Rust Belt cities (so, yeah, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Detroit, Milwaukee, Toledo, Columbus, etc), especially those around the Great Lakes (as the Great Lakes area seems likely to become a "climate refuge" area.)
I would be very wary of small towns/cities centered around liberal universities - at least do a long visit first. IME, (in Ohio, western Pennsylvania, western New York, and parts of the Pioneer Valley in Massachusetts), the further away you get from the actual campus, the more you're in Trump Country.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:47 AM on July 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
Acceptable second choices would be other Rust Belt cities (so, yeah, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Detroit, Milwaukee, Toledo, Columbus, etc), especially those around the Great Lakes (as the Great Lakes area seems likely to become a "climate refuge" area.)
I would be very wary of small towns/cities centered around liberal universities - at least do a long visit first. IME, (in Ohio, western Pennsylvania, western New York, and parts of the Pioneer Valley in Massachusetts), the further away you get from the actual campus, the more you're in Trump Country.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:47 AM on July 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
I live in the DMV, namely the inner suburbs on the Virginia side of Washington, DC. There are some big things that I don't like but there's really no other place I'd live in the US right now. (DC proper is great but more expensive; parts of the MD suburbs like PG County near DC are slightly less so.) My main complaint is price, having grown up here and gone away only to now barely afford a lower middle-class lifestyle on 100k/year. (I know this would be a dream salary in most of the US to say nothing of the world but here it's sadly limiting.) I dislike the occasional snobbery but appreciate how progressive most people are and how genuinely diverse the area is. It's a great place to be a schoolteacher in this crazy time politically, although I'd argue that smalltowns have school systems that are equally as good; for me as a employee though, I would not be paid well and also not necessarily welcomed as a queer liberal person. I know the DMV is definitely less expensive than where you are now but it's not that much less either. That said, there are so many places around the US that I have visited and loved so it's all about what you want most! And this includes "hidden" gems like Fayetteville AR and Fargo ND. I second the suggestions of Richmond and Baltimore, especially if you prefer a cozier vibe.
posted by smorgasbord at 6:56 AM on July 26, 2023
posted by smorgasbord at 6:56 AM on July 26, 2023
Response by poster: This is really helpful so far!
I think the piece of this I unconsciously did not make explicit is what I'm fantasizing about getting away from - the extreme disinvestment, suffering, environmental degradation, income inequality and violence I am currently immersed in the SF Bay Area. Lived here my whole life and there has never been so much misery and inequality here in the last 50 years. I recognize these things are everywhere in the US right now, but I am overwhelmed by the volume of it here in the Bay right now. So looking for places with less extremity of this stuff. It seems there have been many suggestions in this vein!
posted by latkes at 7:10 AM on July 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think the piece of this I unconsciously did not make explicit is what I'm fantasizing about getting away from - the extreme disinvestment, suffering, environmental degradation, income inequality and violence I am currently immersed in the SF Bay Area. Lived here my whole life and there has never been so much misery and inequality here in the last 50 years. I recognize these things are everywhere in the US right now, but I am overwhelmed by the volume of it here in the Bay right now. So looking for places with less extremity of this stuff. It seems there have been many suggestions in this vein!
posted by latkes at 7:10 AM on July 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
As a Bay Area resident, I would really consider moving out of Oakland and to another part of the Bay. I lived in Oakland on and off for several years, and as much as I love this city, there are some deep problems on many levels. Life really is a lot less stressful in other towns around here.
That said, fulfilling 100% of your criteria is difficult. The weather here alone is unique, and you won't be able to find it easily elsewhere. You're more likely to find it somewhere along the coastline this side of the US. I guess that's why the cost of living is so high in these parts.
posted by extramundane at 7:37 AM on July 26, 2023
That said, fulfilling 100% of your criteria is difficult. The weather here alone is unique, and you won't be able to find it easily elsewhere. You're more likely to find it somewhere along the coastline this side of the US. I guess that's why the cost of living is so high in these parts.
posted by extramundane at 7:37 AM on July 26, 2023
I think the piece of this I unconsciously did not make explicit is what I'm fantasizing about getting away from - the extreme disinvestment, suffering, environmental degradation, income inequality and violence I am currently immersed in the SF Bay Area.
Yeah, then don't come to Philly.
posted by rhymedirective at 8:48 AM on July 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yeah, then don't come to Philly.
posted by rhymedirective at 8:48 AM on July 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
Do I remember right that you're female-bodied and present as masculine?
I expect I'm preaching to the choir, but if you're queer and have a uterus I would not move anywhere in Florida under any circumstances. While I'm sure people in St Pete are nice, just like they are where my folks are in Gainesville, the state isn't and enough shitbag yankees moved there during the pandemic that it's unlikely to get better anytime soon.
Likewise, I would be wary of Richmond or northern Virginia. At the state level, VA has been trending blue but it elected a fuckwit magahat as governor in 2021 and is one unpopular Democratic president away from giving fuckwit magahats complete control over the state government. If you're thinking about Richmond I would at the very least wait to see how this November's elections go.
Any of the suggestions in what you'd call upstate NY will be at least worth checking out. You're still going to see some disinvestment, suffering, etc, because most of the region had its glory days in the 1920s-1950s. But you're not going to see anything remotely like the level of homelessness you see in SF. And NY electing fuckwit magahats into power is essentially unthinkable for the time being.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:11 AM on July 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
I expect I'm preaching to the choir, but if you're queer and have a uterus I would not move anywhere in Florida under any circumstances. While I'm sure people in St Pete are nice, just like they are where my folks are in Gainesville, the state isn't and enough shitbag yankees moved there during the pandemic that it's unlikely to get better anytime soon.
Likewise, I would be wary of Richmond or northern Virginia. At the state level, VA has been trending blue but it elected a fuckwit magahat as governor in 2021 and is one unpopular Democratic president away from giving fuckwit magahats complete control over the state government. If you're thinking about Richmond I would at the very least wait to see how this November's elections go.
Any of the suggestions in what you'd call upstate NY will be at least worth checking out. You're still going to see some disinvestment, suffering, etc, because most of the region had its glory days in the 1920s-1950s. But you're not going to see anything remotely like the level of homelessness you see in SF. And NY electing fuckwit magahats into power is essentially unthinkable for the time being.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:11 AM on July 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
Nurse pay is also shit in Florida, the state that I, a GNC person, am leaving for the Northwest despite having big feelings about how white it is. St. Pete and Gainesville are both lovely but I don't trust this place anymore on a number of axes.
Minneapolis seemed cool when I visited and it checks a lot of boxes. Consider doing some travel nurse gigs and scouting some places out?
posted by sibboleth at 9:26 AM on July 26, 2023
Minneapolis seemed cool when I visited and it checks a lot of boxes. Consider doing some travel nurse gigs and scouting some places out?
posted by sibboleth at 9:26 AM on July 26, 2023
I think the piece of this I unconsciously did not make explicit is what I'm fantasizing about getting away from - the extreme disinvestment, suffering, environmental degradation, income inequality and violence I am currently immersed in the SF Bay Area.
rhymedirective: Yeah, then don't come to Philly.
Or Baltimore.
Meant to add to my earlier comment: I grew up in Richmond and absolutely do not recommend it based on your criteria. Much of the money funding Virginia's rightward lean originates from generational wealth in Richmond and Tidewater, and even though even the oldest money is generally laissez-faire about queerness, they will fund and vote for any atrocity as long as it keeps their taxes low.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 9:46 AM on July 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
rhymedirective: Yeah, then don't come to Philly.
Or Baltimore.
Meant to add to my earlier comment: I grew up in Richmond and absolutely do not recommend it based on your criteria. Much of the money funding Virginia's rightward lean originates from generational wealth in Richmond and Tidewater, and even though even the oldest money is generally laissez-faire about queerness, they will fund and vote for any atrocity as long as it keeps their taxes low.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 9:46 AM on July 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
If you're interested in Connecticut, give West Hartford a look.
I don't know a whole lot about the public transport (I work there but I'm a car commuter) but the downtown area is pretty walkable. Plenty of places for a nurse to work, either in town or in Hartford or the surrounding communities, and they will be paid well. Central and eastern Connecticut are considered one of the safest places to live in the country climate-wise.
Diversity is growing (Jewish population is large enough that public schools are off for the High Holy Days; Black and Hispanic are increasing). Local politics are lefty; very LGBT friendly.
Artistic community is strong here and statewide (one of the benefits of a small state). Great public libraries (and in CT you can use any town's library with your hometown card, something I truly love about this state). Restaurants are awesome in both quality and diversity. There are several beautiful city parks that are readily accessible, nice state parks within a half-hour drive, and if you drive for an hour, there's the ocean.
I like a lot of CT (including my own town, Willimantic, which is much lower on the income scale but still up there with the artistic and social networks), but I've had a very soft spot for West Hartford for almost as long as I've been here, which is over 25 years now.
posted by dlugoczaj at 11:22 AM on July 26, 2023
I don't know a whole lot about the public transport (I work there but I'm a car commuter) but the downtown area is pretty walkable. Plenty of places for a nurse to work, either in town or in Hartford or the surrounding communities, and they will be paid well. Central and eastern Connecticut are considered one of the safest places to live in the country climate-wise.
Diversity is growing (Jewish population is large enough that public schools are off for the High Holy Days; Black and Hispanic are increasing). Local politics are lefty; very LGBT friendly.
Artistic community is strong here and statewide (one of the benefits of a small state). Great public libraries (and in CT you can use any town's library with your hometown card, something I truly love about this state). Restaurants are awesome in both quality and diversity. There are several beautiful city parks that are readily accessible, nice state parks within a half-hour drive, and if you drive for an hour, there's the ocean.
I like a lot of CT (including my own town, Willimantic, which is much lower on the income scale but still up there with the artistic and social networks), but I've had a very soft spot for West Hartford for almost as long as I've been here, which is over 25 years now.
posted by dlugoczaj at 11:22 AM on July 26, 2023
I moved from the SF Bay Area to Missoula, MT last year and I love it! I think you would too. Yes, it's Montana, but we just got a second congressional district and the western district (containing Missoula + Bozeman, the two cities in MT I'd specifically recommend) is only like R+7. Missoula itself is a solidly blue dot.
I grew up in the Philly area and I was nodding along with those recommendations until I got to your follow-up about what you don't like in the Bay -- have to agree with everyone else that Philly/Baltimore is just a cheaper East Coast version of SF in that regard.
But back to Missoula!
- Walkable/bikeable/good transit: Extremely bikeable for half the year; the other half, some people still bike with winter tires but we do get real winter. The downtown/central city core is very walkable. Transit is getting there, just not that frequent because we're a small city where most people own cars so they can access the outdoors that Montana is so famous for. I'd say this is an ideal place to live if you're *able* to drive but don't want to do it that often.
- Politics: Local politics are solidly left, state politics are solidly red but with more of a libertarian bent. For comparison, I would not be willing to live in any of the bordering states (ID, WY, ND, SD) as a non-white moderate liberal, but I feel 100% safe here despite my race having like 2% state-wide representation.
- Queerness: Basically all of the shops in Missoula have rainbow flag stickers in their windows. I have queer friends who are pretty visibly out (I am queer myself but straight-passing) and they don't have issues.
- Climate: CityNerd actually ranked Missoula super high on a recent list of small cities with low climate risk. We get wildfire smoke in the summer but it's been going on for decades and they have a good handle on dealing with it; otherwise, no other catastrophic climate risks, which is evidently notable.
- Art/music/literature: The community is super artsy and has been for a long time. Music festivals in the summer, downtown summer festivals, multiple indie bookstores in downtown. I know several people who came for the creative writing MFA at the university so there are probably writers' groups around too.
- Restaurants: excellent contemporary American food, surprisingly good Thai but bad every-other-Asian-cuisine, upscale Mexican is OK but you'll have to give up on authentic burritos.
- Access to nature: One of the huge pros of Montana. I can take an evening stroll out my front door and hike up a mountain to get a view of the whole city, then back down again in an hour total, even starting at 8pm because the sun sets at 9-9:30 all summer. Or drive 10 min to a registered wilderness preserve, or an hour to isolated and seriously beautiful hiking to a mountain lake.
- Friendly: Not as much as Midwesterners, but definitely more friendly and neighborly than either of the coasts that I've lived on. Drivers often yield to people trying to turn out of a parking lot or merge onto the highway, which still surprises me as someone who drove for so long in California.
posted by serelliya at 12:52 PM on July 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
I grew up in the Philly area and I was nodding along with those recommendations until I got to your follow-up about what you don't like in the Bay -- have to agree with everyone else that Philly/Baltimore is just a cheaper East Coast version of SF in that regard.
But back to Missoula!
- Walkable/bikeable/good transit: Extremely bikeable for half the year; the other half, some people still bike with winter tires but we do get real winter. The downtown/central city core is very walkable. Transit is getting there, just not that frequent because we're a small city where most people own cars so they can access the outdoors that Montana is so famous for. I'd say this is an ideal place to live if you're *able* to drive but don't want to do it that often.
- Politics: Local politics are solidly left, state politics are solidly red but with more of a libertarian bent. For comparison, I would not be willing to live in any of the bordering states (ID, WY, ND, SD) as a non-white moderate liberal, but I feel 100% safe here despite my race having like 2% state-wide representation.
- Queerness: Basically all of the shops in Missoula have rainbow flag stickers in their windows. I have queer friends who are pretty visibly out (I am queer myself but straight-passing) and they don't have issues.
- Climate: CityNerd actually ranked Missoula super high on a recent list of small cities with low climate risk. We get wildfire smoke in the summer but it's been going on for decades and they have a good handle on dealing with it; otherwise, no other catastrophic climate risks, which is evidently notable.
- Art/music/literature: The community is super artsy and has been for a long time. Music festivals in the summer, downtown summer festivals, multiple indie bookstores in downtown. I know several people who came for the creative writing MFA at the university so there are probably writers' groups around too.
- Restaurants: excellent contemporary American food, surprisingly good Thai but bad every-other-Asian-cuisine, upscale Mexican is OK but you'll have to give up on authentic burritos.
- Access to nature: One of the huge pros of Montana. I can take an evening stroll out my front door and hike up a mountain to get a view of the whole city, then back down again in an hour total, even starting at 8pm because the sun sets at 9-9:30 all summer. Or drive 10 min to a registered wilderness preserve, or an hour to isolated and seriously beautiful hiking to a mountain lake.
- Friendly: Not as much as Midwesterners, but definitely more friendly and neighborly than either of the coasts that I've lived on. Drivers often yield to people trying to turn out of a parking lot or merge onto the highway, which still surprises me as someone who drove for so long in California.
posted by serelliya at 12:52 PM on July 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
I would normally recommend Tallahassee, Florida which is very diverse and due to two universities and a large college (formerly community college) is very diverse, has a lot going on, and is not far from the Gulf coast. Unfortunately, it's not all walkable although we have great parks and trails to compensate.
All that said, with the current government of the state, I can't decide whether to recommend that you _not_ come to Florida, or to beg _everyone_ to move here and vote to try to rebalance our politics
posted by TimHare at 8:00 PM on July 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
All that said, with the current government of the state, I can't decide whether to recommend that you _not_ come to Florida, or to beg _everyone_ to move here and vote to try to rebalance our politics
posted by TimHare at 8:00 PM on July 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
OK. I'll add to my at Pete response since there were some Florida comments.
1. There's maggats everywhere. We don't have the market corned. I can assure you they're aware that upstate New York exists
2. You don't have to, ya know, go through the shit parts like Tallahassee to get here. The i4 corrirodor is extremely progressive, lqgbt friendly, and sports 2 larger and 4 smaller national and international airports.
3. We have no state income taxes. Plus in Pinellas and Hillsborough counties indeed and glasdoor show nursing salaries well above national average for RNs. We have a bunch of high end respected hospitals (Moffit cancer, all children's, a respected VA) and medical systems here. Personally I can tell you that I know several nurses including no less than 2 new neighbors who moved to the region because of demand and wages. Perhaps areas an 8 hour drive away might experience different wage conditions. It's a big state.
4. Yes Florida has stupid politicians. Again don't have the market cornered. But again, St pete has one of the very largest pride events nationally supporting a year round community of openness and respect. We don't put it away come Monday morning. Between here, Tampa, and Orlando, you're unlikely to find a larger metropelx as inclusive and open and supportive literally anywhere.
Generally Florida is massively giant. People like to lump it all together. But the st Pete, Tampa, Orlando region is huge and amazing. We're more than Florida man, meth gators and Ron DeSantis.
posted by chasles at 5:35 AM on July 27, 2023
1. There's maggats everywhere. We don't have the market corned. I can assure you they're aware that upstate New York exists
2. You don't have to, ya know, go through the shit parts like Tallahassee to get here. The i4 corrirodor is extremely progressive, lqgbt friendly, and sports 2 larger and 4 smaller national and international airports.
3. We have no state income taxes. Plus in Pinellas and Hillsborough counties indeed and glasdoor show nursing salaries well above national average for RNs. We have a bunch of high end respected hospitals (Moffit cancer, all children's, a respected VA) and medical systems here. Personally I can tell you that I know several nurses including no less than 2 new neighbors who moved to the region because of demand and wages. Perhaps areas an 8 hour drive away might experience different wage conditions. It's a big state.
4. Yes Florida has stupid politicians. Again don't have the market cornered. But again, St pete has one of the very largest pride events nationally supporting a year round community of openness and respect. We don't put it away come Monday morning. Between here, Tampa, and Orlando, you're unlikely to find a larger metropelx as inclusive and open and supportive literally anywhere.
Generally Florida is massively giant. People like to lump it all together. But the st Pete, Tampa, Orlando region is huge and amazing. We're more than Florida man, meth gators and Ron DeSantis.
posted by chasles at 5:35 AM on July 27, 2023
Friend I have until today been a lifelong Floridian. I was born in Tampa and have lived in both St Pete and Gainesville. I’m honestly kind of upset that you think Tallahassee is some lesser place like it’s not just as blue, queer, or vibrant.
If you live in St. Pete it is at least a 45 min commute on a good morning to Moffitt or Haley VA and TGH is also an excellent hospital. OP is coming from a place where nursing wages are high, ratios and breaks are mandated, and unions are strong. Florida is not comparable.
I know you’re proud of this place and want it to be better because I want that too, but do you want to tell OP about our open carry laws or how they might try to pave the roads with radioactive material or how my friend the librarian can’t use the bathroom at his job because he’s been instructed to call the police if someone’s not in a certain bathroom?
posted by sibboleth at 10:53 AM on July 27, 2023
If you live in St. Pete it is at least a 45 min commute on a good morning to Moffitt or Haley VA and TGH is also an excellent hospital. OP is coming from a place where nursing wages are high, ratios and breaks are mandated, and unions are strong. Florida is not comparable.
I know you’re proud of this place and want it to be better because I want that too, but do you want to tell OP about our open carry laws or how they might try to pave the roads with radioactive material or how my friend the librarian can’t use the bathroom at his job because he’s been instructed to call the police if someone’s not in a certain bathroom?
posted by sibboleth at 10:53 AM on July 27, 2023
Response by poster: Thanks for all the Florida discourse! I appreciate all perspectives. Ideologically, I think we should all be moving there to build solidarity and support for sane and equitable life there.
Having said that, my wife is from Florida and has lots of stressful associations with the many corners of the state where she once lived, and when I started reading this thread out loud to her she was like No Fucking Way are we moving to Florida. So good or bad, it's probably off the table.
Still, I like hearing about these different parts of the country that at minimum perhaps I might visit one day.
posted by latkes at 11:03 AM on July 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Having said that, my wife is from Florida and has lots of stressful associations with the many corners of the state where she once lived, and when I started reading this thread out loud to her she was like No Fucking Way are we moving to Florida. So good or bad, it's probably off the table.
Still, I like hearing about these different parts of the country that at minimum perhaps I might visit one day.
posted by latkes at 11:03 AM on July 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
I personally think you should visit many of these places - I think you will be really surprised at how much extreme disinvestment, suffering, environmental degradation, and income inequality the rest of the US also lives in, or just never goes to those parts if they live in larger metroplexes. Compared to SF, most will be worse. That's why people pay a lot to live there.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:15 PM on July 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:15 PM on July 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
You'd definitely see a lot less disinvestment, suffering, environmental degradation, income inequality and violence in Vermont. If getting away from all that is your main goal, it's a place to consider. The weather might be too much for you, though, and you'd have to be willing to give up a lot of dining and cultural opportunities.
posted by Redstart at 2:38 PM on July 27, 2023
posted by Redstart at 2:38 PM on July 27, 2023
I think the piece of this I unconsciously did not make explicit is what I'm fantasizing about getting away from - the extreme disinvestment, suffering, environmental degradation, income inequality and violence I am currently immersed in the SF Bay Area. Lived here my whole life and there has never been so much misery and inequality here in the last 50 years. I recognize these things are everywhere in the US right now, but I am overwhelmed by the volume of it here in the Bay right now. So looking for places with less extremity of this stuff.
I have been thinking about this comment you made. I live in Portland, in town, and a lot of Portland-is-dying chatter seems to come from folks who live outside of town and don't like seeing visible representations of poverty when they visit downtown. I understand that's not what you're saying. It sounds like what you are saying is that you want to live someplace where things aren't so bad.
Honestly, I think if you want to get away from where things are the worst, you need to go live in a wealthier place, like an upper middle class suburb. Those places still have disinvesment and income inequality, but the wealthy folks have sequestered themselves away from it. But then which of those places are queer-friendly?
There are definitely wealthier, queer-friendly in-town neighborhoods that are also walkable and with decent transit, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to escape the current reality of income inequality and visible poverty. But maybe you can figure out someplace where you'd be rich enough to live in a neighborhood that works harder to keep out the poorest folks.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:40 PM on July 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have been thinking about this comment you made. I live in Portland, in town, and a lot of Portland-is-dying chatter seems to come from folks who live outside of town and don't like seeing visible representations of poverty when they visit downtown. I understand that's not what you're saying. It sounds like what you are saying is that you want to live someplace where things aren't so bad.
Honestly, I think if you want to get away from where things are the worst, you need to go live in a wealthier place, like an upper middle class suburb. Those places still have disinvesment and income inequality, but the wealthy folks have sequestered themselves away from it. But then which of those places are queer-friendly?
There are definitely wealthier, queer-friendly in-town neighborhoods that are also walkable and with decent transit, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to escape the current reality of income inequality and visible poverty. But maybe you can figure out someplace where you'd be rich enough to live in a neighborhood that works harder to keep out the poorest folks.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:40 PM on July 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
(And I don't think you were intending to ask exactly how I have answered! I just don't know that you can really live in a diverse, progressive, queer-friendly place and also not have poverty.)
posted by bluedaisy at 2:42 PM on July 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 2:42 PM on July 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
The capital region in NY meets every single one of your criteria. Personally I am especially grateful that we are well protected from the extreme effects of climate change, and that we get a *good* amount of snow every year, not a painful amount. This is upstate so in the more rural areas you'll see Trump flags aplenty. However, for walkability and public transport, you'll be in the city (or cities) which are queer friendly and racially diverse.
This place also boasts a moderate cost of living overall. However, housing prices are waaaay above what people with regional wages can afford anymore, so a remote job that pays some kind of larger-city salary will be a plus.
posted by MiraK at 10:48 AM on July 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
This place also boasts a moderate cost of living overall. However, housing prices are waaaay above what people with regional wages can afford anymore, so a remote job that pays some kind of larger-city salary will be a plus.
posted by MiraK at 10:48 AM on July 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
latkes: extreme disinvestment, suffering, environmental degradation, income inequality and violence
Never mind on Chicago, then. Chicago has all that stuff. I think those things are the downsides of the modern city and what you want is to live in a small town. Small college towns will have what you're looking for in terms of queer-friendliness, walkability, arts scene, food, and nature. They can be insular but I'm always struck by the strength and depth of the community in these kinds of places.
I googled "LGBTQ friendly small towns" out of curiosity to see if I'd spent enough time in any of them to make a recommendation, and the incredibly awesome New Hope, PA came up. It's an artists' colony rather than a college town. I have visited often and I love it.
Rehoboth, DE also comes up; you don't actually want to live in Rehoboth, which is a beach town, but elsewhere on the Delmarva such as Maryland's Eastern Shore might suit you. My friends on the Eastern Shore say the pace of life is slower there. There is hurricane activity so that might not check your "no apocalyptic weather" box, but heading out to the coast alleviates the worst of the brutal summer heat of the DC area.
posted by capricorn at 11:25 AM on August 1, 2023
Never mind on Chicago, then. Chicago has all that stuff. I think those things are the downsides of the modern city and what you want is to live in a small town. Small college towns will have what you're looking for in terms of queer-friendliness, walkability, arts scene, food, and nature. They can be insular but I'm always struck by the strength and depth of the community in these kinds of places.
I googled "LGBTQ friendly small towns" out of curiosity to see if I'd spent enough time in any of them to make a recommendation, and the incredibly awesome New Hope, PA came up. It's an artists' colony rather than a college town. I have visited often and I love it.
Rehoboth, DE also comes up; you don't actually want to live in Rehoboth, which is a beach town, but elsewhere on the Delmarva such as Maryland's Eastern Shore might suit you. My friends on the Eastern Shore say the pace of life is slower there. There is hurricane activity so that might not check your "no apocalyptic weather" box, but heading out to the coast alleviates the worst of the brutal summer heat of the DC area.
posted by capricorn at 11:25 AM on August 1, 2023
Port Townsend, WA seems to hit all the notes. It's been home for the past 22 years. And of COURSE nurses are highly needed.
posted by Shunra at 10:06 PM on August 20, 2023
posted by Shunra at 10:06 PM on August 20, 2023
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posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 4:16 PM on July 25, 2023 [8 favorites]