What was I going to be named?
July 10, 2023 9:51 PM Subscribe
My mother wanted to name me something unique, and thankfully got vetoed. But I don't know where the name came from, or how she would have spelled it. Please help me solve this family mystery and figure out the origins.
There were several candidates for my name, and every year my mom talks about what I might have been if I had a different name. One option was a feminine version of my dad's name, and it's fun to think about what I could or would have been named, but... mom's first choice has me stumped.
The name my mother fought very hard for has been a mystery my whole life. She's never spelled it, despite being asked, but its pronounced SAG-ah-NEE. Possibly written as Saucany? She claims it is a river in France, and NOT Saucony creek. I haven't found one despite years of searching and so I figured it was worth asking here. For nomenclature closure.
Background
- Mom came from a very, very British household. Her mom came over to Canada after WW2, marrying a solider. Mom's name is common, and can be used by either gender. Name is not a reference to any relative.
- Dad came to Canada from Scotland at age 3. It's not a name from his side, either, though there are some interesting choices on this side of the family (Aunt's legal name is Cookie)
- I was adopted- and came with the name Tiffany. They thought it was too 80s, and wanted something older and more traditional. (Yes. I am The Tiffany Problem) My name was changed, but I use a nickname everywhere, even professionally.
- Just prior to my adoption, they spent a month traveling in Europe. I suspect this is where Mom came up with Saugany? As a kid, I pronounded it Saggyknee.
I know this is a long shot, but: Is this just a made up name? Secret river? Old name that's no longer popular?
There were several candidates for my name, and every year my mom talks about what I might have been if I had a different name. One option was a feminine version of my dad's name, and it's fun to think about what I could or would have been named, but... mom's first choice has me stumped.
The name my mother fought very hard for has been a mystery my whole life. She's never spelled it, despite being asked, but its pronounced SAG-ah-NEE. Possibly written as Saucany? She claims it is a river in France, and NOT Saucony creek. I haven't found one despite years of searching and so I figured it was worth asking here. For nomenclature closure.
Background
- Mom came from a very, very British household. Her mom came over to Canada after WW2, marrying a solider. Mom's name is common, and can be used by either gender. Name is not a reference to any relative.
- Dad came to Canada from Scotland at age 3. It's not a name from his side, either, though there are some interesting choices on this side of the family (Aunt's legal name is Cookie)
- I was adopted- and came with the name Tiffany. They thought it was too 80s, and wanted something older and more traditional. (Yes. I am The Tiffany Problem) My name was changed, but I use a nickname everywhere, even professionally.
- Just prior to my adoption, they spent a month traveling in Europe. I suspect this is where Mom came up with Saugany? As a kid, I pronounded it Saggyknee.
I know this is a long shot, but: Is this just a made up name? Secret river? Old name that's no longer popular?
I also thought of Saguenay. (It’s the name of a town and a region as well.)
posted by mekily at 9:58 PM on July 10, 2023
posted by mekily at 9:58 PM on July 10, 2023
Nthng Saguenay. As a French Canadian, I have never met anyone with the first or last name Saguenay - so it'd be unique. I was always taught that its origins are a bit murky but wiki tells me that it is derived from an Innu word.
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:04 PM on July 10, 2023
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:04 PM on July 10, 2023
There are a bunch of places named Savigny in France. Don't know of any Sagigny tho.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:14 PM on July 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:14 PM on July 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
"ça gagne" pretty much translates as "its a winner!" - not sure if that helps, but it might come up in the context of talking about an list of name options in French.
posted by rongorongo at 1:27 AM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by rongorongo at 1:27 AM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Looking on England and Wales birth records - there is no one with the first name Saguenay. There is one person whose middle name it is (female, born in the 1990s in Wales). Looking at people called Sag*, there was a Sagna (female) born in Norfolk in 1895. Lots of 19thc Sagars, mostly in Lancashire (looks like a male name, maybe a variant of the Biblical name Sacar). A Sagina (female) born in Surrey in 1900, and a Saguna in Worcestershire in 1914. Several late 20thc Sagrinas, all female. Sageana in Yorkshire in 1991. There are a lot of Asian first names (identified as Asian by surnames) starting "Sag" in the 20thc - Saguria, Sagina, Sagufta, Sagonia, Sagorika.
I searched for Sauc*, Sauv*, Savig*, Saug* too but didn't find anything. So negative evidence, but I think there is no tradition of a name pronounced like Sag-ah-nee being an older British name.
Looking in the British Newspaper Archive, there were at least two Canadian ships called the Saguenay, a destroyer built in Southampton in 1931, and a slightly earlier steamer on the St Lawrence. There's a lot of 19thc coverage and into the first half of the 20thc of the river and area as a tourist attraction.
Sigourney sounds similar to me, but the origin doesn't fit.
Your father's family weren't Scottish Gaelic speakers I suppose?
posted by paduasoy at 1:39 AM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
I searched for Sauc*, Sauv*, Savig*, Saug* too but didn't find anything. So negative evidence, but I think there is no tradition of a name pronounced like Sag-ah-nee being an older British name.
Looking in the British Newspaper Archive, there were at least two Canadian ships called the Saguenay, a destroyer built in Southampton in 1931, and a slightly earlier steamer on the St Lawrence. There's a lot of 19thc coverage and into the first half of the 20thc of the river and area as a tourist attraction.
Sigourney sounds similar to me, but the origin doesn't fit.
Your father's family weren't Scottish Gaelic speakers I suppose?
posted by paduasoy at 1:39 AM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Perhaps it could be Cygne from the Île aux Cygnes in the river Seine, and your mother got a bit confused about river vs island, and her pronunciation drifted a bit? Means swan, so that would be pretty.
posted by Rhedyn at 2:31 AM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Rhedyn at 2:31 AM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Saône?
It is pronounced “Sonne”, but a non-French speaking tourist might not know that. Looks pretty as a word, definitely looks like it could be a girl’s name.
posted by tinkletown at 3:43 AM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
It is pronounced “Sonne”, but a non-French speaking tourist might not know that. Looks pretty as a word, definitely looks like it could be a girl’s name.
posted by tinkletown at 3:43 AM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
In fact, the more I think about this, the more I think your mum was right and we should try to make Saône (pronounced Sa’on-yay) happen.
posted by tinkletown at 3:53 AM on July 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by tinkletown at 3:53 AM on July 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
Or Sagone? It would track with my British sense of humour and general inherited attitude to culture to just read a name off a sign in my own accent/language without trying to say it in French. (I since learned actual French!)
posted by lokta at 3:53 AM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by lokta at 3:53 AM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also — Sagone pronounced like Antigone (in English) tracks.
posted by lokta at 3:55 AM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by lokta at 3:55 AM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
One thing that pops to mind is that if your mom picked up the British penchant for French pronunciation the French word might have ended with ier so it could be spelled something like sagonier as well. I'm not much of a French geographer but maybe that tips someone else off.
posted by chasles at 5:18 AM on July 11, 2023
posted by chasles at 5:18 AM on July 11, 2023
Sigourney sounds similar to me, but the origin doesn't fit.
It does at least tick the 'French' box, albeit in quite a broad sense.
posted by robself at 5:21 AM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
It does at least tick the 'French' box, albeit in quite a broad sense.
posted by robself at 5:21 AM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's making me think of Saint-Genis, which could be a fair few different places in France.
posted by protorp at 7:24 AM on July 11, 2023
posted by protorp at 7:24 AM on July 11, 2023
This API tool (field "recherche une commune" ) has an autocomplete which is a nice quick way of testing various spelling combinations for French place (municipality) names.
It's thrown up a Saintigny and several Saint Geniez (the "z" may be silent in local pronunciations), though I couldn't obviously link any of those to rivers.
(Just to clarify the train of thought here and above, "Saint" or "St" can turn into ≈ "Sa..." elided into what comes after a lot of the time in French pronunciation.)
posted by protorp at 7:46 AM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's thrown up a Saintigny and several Saint Geniez (the "z" may be silent in local pronunciations), though I couldn't obviously link any of those to rivers.
(Just to clarify the train of thought here and above, "Saint" or "St" can turn into ≈ "Sa..." elided into what comes after a lot of the time in French pronunciation.)
posted by protorp at 7:46 AM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Sanguinet in the Landes department, southwest France, just a bit inland from Biscarosse on the Atlantic coast. The first "n" isn't pronounced overly emphatically.
I actually spent two spells working on campsites there, it's a popular spot due to its situation on a large lake, the "Étang de Cazaux et de Saunguinet". Not a river, but a maybe-name, a body of water, a holiday destination ?
posted by protorp at 7:59 AM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I actually spent two spells working on campsites there, it's a popular spot due to its situation on a large lake, the "Étang de Cazaux et de Saunguinet". Not a river, but a maybe-name, a body of water, a holiday destination ?
posted by protorp at 7:59 AM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have a Canadian friend in her mid-40s who was also going to be named that! I never saw it spelled, but your phonetic spelling matches her pronunciation. I remember her telling me it was after a river, so I suspect those who have mentioned the river in Quebec are correct.
posted by Empidonax at 4:18 PM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Empidonax at 4:18 PM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm gonna go with Saguenay too. Check out these pronunciations here, especially the phrase https://forvo.com/word/saguenay/#fr
posted by foxjacket at 6:47 PM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by foxjacket at 6:47 PM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
>Sigourney sounds similar to me
Sagourney is, apparently, a name that is used occasionally, as are SaGurney and Sagurney - though those appear to mostly be used as last names.
Examples of all the above are found at the link. I don't know how they are pronounced, though - SaGurney seems like it would have the accent more on the GUR. But I'm just not sure.
posted by flug at 7:23 PM on July 12, 2023
Sagourney is, apparently, a name that is used occasionally, as are SaGurney and Sagurney - though those appear to mostly be used as last names.
Examples of all the above are found at the link. I don't know how they are pronounced, though - SaGurney seems like it would have the accent more on the GUR. But I'm just not sure.
posted by flug at 7:23 PM on July 12, 2023
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by mbrubeck at 9:55 PM on July 10, 2023 [19 favorites]