Using a condenser mic for banjo—risks, rewards?
July 3, 2023 10:03 AM Subscribe
I would like to record an EP at my library’s recording studio/innovation lab. The only mics they have are Harman AKG C 214 condenser mics. What’s the best way to record a banjo with this kind of mic?
I don’t have the money to buy new equipment, and this is the only option open to me. Please don’t ask me why I don’t buy a different mic, thanks!
Also, I’m guessing the condenser is a better option than the clip-on lavalier mics.
I don’t have the money to buy new equipment, and this is the only option open to me. Please don’t ask me why I don’t buy a different mic, thanks!
Also, I’m guessing the condenser is a better option than the clip-on lavalier mics.
Response by poster: They have a mic and a mic stand, and I would be dumping this directly into a computer on-site.
posted by pxe2000 at 10:18 AM on July 3, 2023
posted by pxe2000 at 10:18 AM on July 3, 2023
Best answer: Mic placement is the most important thing for getting a good-sounding recording of an instrument. If at all possible, give yourself time to record some tests with the mic placed different distances from the instrument, and pointed at different parts of the instrument. If you play with fingerpicks, you'll probably want the mic farther away and pointed at the lower head (not near where the picks are hitting the strings).
posted by unreadyhero at 10:44 AM on July 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by unreadyhero at 10:44 AM on July 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
Best answer: (If there's a different kind of mic that would work better for recording acoustic/stringed/etc. instruments, it wouldn't hurt to politely recommend to the library that they acquire one.
When it comes to maker/studio spaces in libraries, in my experience librarians sometimes have more enthusiasm than we do expertise.)
posted by box at 10:46 AM on July 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
When it comes to maker/studio spaces in libraries, in my experience librarians sometimes have more enthusiasm than we do expertise.)
posted by box at 10:46 AM on July 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: The C 214 is not the mic I'd reach for with a banjo if I had other options available (most AKG condensers since the early 90s have an unpleasant top-end) but that doesn't mean you can't get a good recording with it. I'd just recommend planning on playing with the EQ afterwards to tune out any harshness on the upper mids. It also has a high frequency bump that I suspect you'll want to dial down too. It tends to be a bit prone to proximity effect, so if it sounds overly bassy, you might want to move it back a bit.
A lot of people just reach for an SM 57 with banjo (they are, after all, just snare drums with strings). Dynamic mics can work well on banjos, as the less sensitivity and rolled off high end tend to tame a lot of what people dislike about banjos. That said, there's nothing wrong with a condenser on them and if it's a solo instrument, what I'd prefer to use for a recording. You can always remove detail and high end but you can't create it if it wasn't captured. They are going to pick up more of the room noise, so depending on the layout of the room, you may want to try a few angles and positions (and make sure there isn't something like a noisy air vent right behind you).
My default starting mic position would be about 8-18 inches back from the resonator, pointed at the bridge. Some people recommend aiming it around where the neck meets the resonator, which is common for micing guitars, but I have not found it as pleasing as near the bridge (but try it to see if you like it). If you want to have a sound that slightly emulates your perspective, you can have it above the banjo at about your ear height pointed down. If you're performing over a reflective floor (hardwood, tile, etc.), you're going to pick up more of that noise though.
It sounds like you might have a pair of them available? You can try adding a second one aimed at the fretboard, just keep the 3:1 rule in mind.
I’m guessing the condenser is a better option than the clip-on lavalier mics.
Most likely, but if you have time, it doesn't hurt to give it a shot. Most lavs are omnidirectional and will pick up a lot more of the room than a cardiod. However, that also means they don't have proximity effect so you can get closer to the source to cut down on room noise (as long as you don't bang into it).
(If there's a different kind of mic that would work better for recording acoustic/stringed/etc. instruments, it wouldn't hurt to politely recommend to the library that they acquire one.
Possibly but not likely. They bought the AKGs because they thought they were good mics. And while just about every professional I know would take the dollar equivalent Audio Technica mic over an AKG any day, walking in and telling them they made a bad choice won't necessarily go over well. (The back story is AKG is one of the classic mic manufacturers that got bought out by a multinational named Harmon (along with Neumann, Sennheiser, JBL, Allen and Heath, and others). AKG was chosen to be their brand to just coast on old reputation and marketing dollars. The C 414 was an iconic mic in both sound and looks. After the buyout, it was revised such that it looked more or less the same but the sound was very different and worse.)
posted by Candleman at 11:18 AM on July 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
A lot of people just reach for an SM 57 with banjo (they are, after all, just snare drums with strings). Dynamic mics can work well on banjos, as the less sensitivity and rolled off high end tend to tame a lot of what people dislike about banjos. That said, there's nothing wrong with a condenser on them and if it's a solo instrument, what I'd prefer to use for a recording. You can always remove detail and high end but you can't create it if it wasn't captured. They are going to pick up more of the room noise, so depending on the layout of the room, you may want to try a few angles and positions (and make sure there isn't something like a noisy air vent right behind you).
My default starting mic position would be about 8-18 inches back from the resonator, pointed at the bridge. Some people recommend aiming it around where the neck meets the resonator, which is common for micing guitars, but I have not found it as pleasing as near the bridge (but try it to see if you like it). If you want to have a sound that slightly emulates your perspective, you can have it above the banjo at about your ear height pointed down. If you're performing over a reflective floor (hardwood, tile, etc.), you're going to pick up more of that noise though.
It sounds like you might have a pair of them available? You can try adding a second one aimed at the fretboard, just keep the 3:1 rule in mind.
I’m guessing the condenser is a better option than the clip-on lavalier mics.
Most likely, but if you have time, it doesn't hurt to give it a shot. Most lavs are omnidirectional and will pick up a lot more of the room than a cardiod. However, that also means they don't have proximity effect so you can get closer to the source to cut down on room noise (as long as you don't bang into it).
(If there's a different kind of mic that would work better for recording acoustic/stringed/etc. instruments, it wouldn't hurt to politely recommend to the library that they acquire one.
Possibly but not likely. They bought the AKGs because they thought they were good mics. And while just about every professional I know would take the dollar equivalent Audio Technica mic over an AKG any day, walking in and telling them they made a bad choice won't necessarily go over well. (The back story is AKG is one of the classic mic manufacturers that got bought out by a multinational named Harmon (along with Neumann, Sennheiser, JBL, Allen and Heath, and others). AKG was chosen to be their brand to just coast on old reputation and marketing dollars. The C 414 was an iconic mic in both sound and looks. After the buyout, it was revised such that it looked more or less the same but the sound was very different and worse.)
posted by Candleman at 11:18 AM on July 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
Depends a lot on the banjo, too. Resonator banjos project a ray of plunk directly forward. Open-backs are much more diffuse, and for certain old-time styles you really want to pick up all the harmonics ("clucks") that a typical mic setup would avoid.
posted by scruss at 11:29 AM on July 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by scruss at 11:29 AM on July 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Seconding all of the above.
the clip-on lavalier mics.
With the additional note that I have definitely had banjo players show up to live gigs with their own clip on lavalier mics, clipped somewhere on the rim and pointed towards the head, or if it was an open back clipped somewhere underneath.
This was for live performances, not recording, which tends to have different requirements, but I'd say it'd be worth a shot to try the lavs, especially if the recording interface has enough channels so you can put the condenser in one channel & track and the lavalier in another.
posted by soundguy99 at 2:33 PM on July 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
the clip-on lavalier mics.
With the additional note that I have definitely had banjo players show up to live gigs with their own clip on lavalier mics, clipped somewhere on the rim and pointed towards the head, or if it was an open back clipped somewhere underneath.
This was for live performances, not recording, which tends to have different requirements, but I'd say it'd be worth a shot to try the lavs, especially if the recording interface has enough channels so you can put the condenser in one channel & track and the lavalier in another.
posted by soundguy99 at 2:33 PM on July 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: scruss: I’m playing an open-backed banjo.
posted by pxe2000 at 3:44 PM on July 3, 2023
posted by pxe2000 at 3:44 PM on July 3, 2023
I have recorded quite a bit of banjo. Not a big fan of that mic, I’m sure you could make it work but I would tend to pick a small-diaphragm condenser or a ribbon mic. Good ribbons get pricey, so:
I’ve played a lot of gigs with a decent clip on audio-technica lav, and would second that it’s worth trying the lav in a few positions, including under the head. SM57 will indeed work fine and you’ll never be sad about owning one. My personal fave clean open-back banjo mics are the beyerdynamic MC930 and the oktava 012 with an omni capsule. For more Americana type stuff with a resonator and picks I’ve had good results with a couple of the standard dynamic studio mics, particularly the EV RE20, which is pro without being too pricey.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:52 PM on July 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
I’ve played a lot of gigs with a decent clip on audio-technica lav, and would second that it’s worth trying the lav in a few positions, including under the head. SM57 will indeed work fine and you’ll never be sad about owning one. My personal fave clean open-back banjo mics are the beyerdynamic MC930 and the oktava 012 with an omni capsule. For more Americana type stuff with a resonator and picks I’ve had good results with a couple of the standard dynamic studio mics, particularly the EV RE20, which is pro without being too pricey.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:52 PM on July 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Oh and Candleman already covered the best initial mic positions to try, but if you’re stuck with the 214, another spot that can work is a little over a foot out in front of the tailpiece, slightly below / behind the picking hand, angled pointing forward up at where the neck and body join. Prone to pick noise if you’re using them, but if you’re frailing / fingerpicking it can sound pretty cool.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:08 AM on July 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by aspersioncast at 6:08 AM on July 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: One other note - if you're recording from behind and in-front, you'll want to invert the polarity of the rear mic to prevent phase issues (this may also require some tuning with placement).
posted by Candleman at 7:16 AM on July 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Candleman at 7:16 AM on July 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
« Older How to get international calling / data while in... | How can I stop my toilet from overflowing? Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by pazazygeek at 10:12 AM on July 3, 2023 [4 favorites]