Future me wants to install ancient software that I already own
June 21, 2023 1:14 PM Subscribe
I have: (legally purchased) installation CDs for Quickbooks99, Photoshop 5, Adobe CS4, and more; one internal and one external CD/DVD drive and external HDDs for backup; plus versions of Acronis (2014), R-Drive Image (7.0 - 2022), and access to Windows 7, Windows 10, and Linux. I need: to duplicate or back up these CDs to make sure I can install this software on new computers, far into the future, even if the original disks get damaged or lost. I don't know: how to do this without downloading some sketchy ripping program.
I believe these disks are created so that I can't just copy the files from one disk to a new DVD or a folder on a backup drive.
Some of these may have downloadable installation files available, but some don't.
Any recommendation? The phrase "disk image" keeps occurring to me.
Attempts to Google, predictably, turn up answers to other people's more common questions that vaguely have similar keywords. No, I do not want to make a backup to DVD, nor do I want to install Acronis from a disk. I tried DuckDuckGo and searching the Acronis site also, but maybe I didn't know the right keywords.
I believe these disks are created so that I can't just copy the files from one disk to a new DVD or a folder on a backup drive.
Some of these may have downloadable installation files available, but some don't.
Any recommendation? The phrase "disk image" keeps occurring to me.
Attempts to Google, predictably, turn up answers to other people's more common questions that vaguely have similar keywords. No, I do not want to make a backup to DVD, nor do I want to install Acronis from a disk. I tried DuckDuckGo and searching the Acronis site also, but maybe I didn't know the right keywords.
I'm sure someone will be along soon to tell you how to make a disk image of an optical disk using Windows.
But if your goal is to be able to use these programs in future then archiving the installation media is not even half the battle. You need to figure out how you are going to acquire and run one of the old, unsupported, insecure operating systems that is compatible with these programs. They will not install or run on "new computers" even if you have backups of the installation media.
posted by caek at 1:44 PM on June 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
But if your goal is to be able to use these programs in future then archiving the installation media is not even half the battle. You need to figure out how you are going to acquire and run one of the old, unsupported, insecure operating systems that is compatible with these programs. They will not install or run on "new computers" even if you have backups of the installation media.
posted by caek at 1:44 PM on June 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
You do not want to just copy the files. What you want is to create what's called an "ISO image" of the media. This is a raw dump of the data that's on the CD or DVD. You can then later write the ISO image to physical media, or use it with a virtual machine. With a virtual machine, you can have the ISO image as a file on disk, attach it to the virtual machine, and the virtual machine will treat that file on disk just like it's a physical CD or DVD.
I don't think Windows has any built-in ISO image ripping tools. Here's a link to one such tool. There are many free tools. I forget what I've used in the past, so I don't have any specific recommendations. A google search for windows ISO image creator should find you many options.
As long as the media you're working with don't have any physical copy protection on them, and most of them will not, ripping an ISO image, and possibly burning it to physical media later, should do what you want. You'll also want to make sure to keep any license keys associated with the media. I think where you're more likely to run into trouble is if the software wants to check with an activation server to see if the license key is valid. These services are likely to go away in the future, or may have already gone away, which may make it impossible to install old software without hacks.
posted by cruelfood at 2:35 PM on June 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't think Windows has any built-in ISO image ripping tools. Here's a link to one such tool. There are many free tools. I forget what I've used in the past, so I don't have any specific recommendations. A google search for windows ISO image creator should find you many options.
As long as the media you're working with don't have any physical copy protection on them, and most of them will not, ripping an ISO image, and possibly burning it to physical media later, should do what you want. You'll also want to make sure to keep any license keys associated with the media. I think where you're more likely to run into trouble is if the software wants to check with an activation server to see if the license key is valid. These services are likely to go away in the future, or may have already gone away, which may make it impossible to install old software without hacks.
posted by cruelfood at 2:35 PM on June 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I have installation disks for the OS's, and I'm also aware that emulators exist (I will test those). I run all these programs on my current computer too.
posted by amtho at 2:36 PM on June 21, 2023
posted by amtho at 2:36 PM on June 21, 2023
Best answer: IMGBurn is a reliable way to rip disks to ISOs; I've been using it for years with great success, also in the way you're intending to use it: taking old disks of software and turning them into ISOs for more reliable storage.
I believe, however, some software used special methods of writing CDs to prevent copying, so I can't guarantee it will work in all cases.
And, of course: save your software keys in a digital way, in the same folder as the ISOs, so you're not hunting for them later!
posted by AzraelBrown at 2:36 PM on June 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
I believe, however, some software used special methods of writing CDs to prevent copying, so I can't guarantee it will work in all cases.
And, of course: save your software keys in a digital way, in the same folder as the ISOs, so you're not hunting for them later!
posted by AzraelBrown at 2:36 PM on June 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: How technically savvy are you, and how much can you throw at this in terms of resources?
Maybe my computer science degree, past experience hacking sendmail.cf, adminstering a Lotus Notes server, and writing code for a commercially available Windows word processor and a bytecode generator for a wannabe pre-iPhone smartphone will help. Resources... $30? $100? I don't know.
cruelfood - I know that various free tools exist, but I'm worried that some of them are sketchy.
posted by amtho at 2:37 PM on June 21, 2023
Maybe my computer science degree, past experience hacking sendmail.cf, adminstering a Lotus Notes server, and writing code for a commercially available Windows word processor and a bytecode generator for a wannabe pre-iPhone smartphone will help. Resources... $30? $100? I don't know.
cruelfood - I know that various free tools exist, but I'm worried that some of them are sketchy.
posted by amtho at 2:37 PM on June 21, 2023
Best answer: Seconding ImgBurn, which is freeware; I used it to back up most of my optical discs (mainly games) to network attached storage a few years back. It is true that some discs were not copyable, e.g. Dungeon Siege. A few discs were copyable but not as ISOs; they are instead BIN/CUE files. I'll admit I don't know the technical reasons for that.
OS compatibility may not be an issue, given the apparent magic of Compatibility Mode. Just this month I got an itch to play Myth: The Fallen Lords, and the original CD is ... probably in a box somewhere within 50 feet of me? But copying the ISO from the NAS, right-click mounting it in Windows 11, and installing and running it in Compatibility Mode (Windows XP SP3) was a breeze.
posted by Covert Kaiju at 2:52 PM on June 21, 2023
OS compatibility may not be an issue, given the apparent magic of Compatibility Mode. Just this month I got an itch to play Myth: The Fallen Lords, and the original CD is ... probably in a box somewhere within 50 feet of me? But copying the ISO from the NAS, right-click mounting it in Windows 11, and installing and running it in Compatibility Mode (Windows XP SP3) was a breeze.
posted by Covert Kaiju at 2:52 PM on June 21, 2023
IMGburn sounds familiar, so it's probably fine, but the web site does not exactly fill me with confidence.
I missed that you're also a Linux user in your question. In Linux, it's as simple as using `dd` to dump the bytes from the CD or DVD to a file. No sketchy software required.
posted by cruelfood at 2:52 PM on June 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I missed that you're also a Linux user in your question. In Linux, it's as simple as using `dd` to dump the bytes from the CD or DVD to a file. No sketchy software required.
posted by cruelfood at 2:52 PM on June 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If you have a Linux box, you can use dd to create an ISO image that you could later burn to a disc or mount directly in a virtual machine. Example: https://www.thomas-krenn.com/en/wiki/Create_an_ISO_Image_from_a_source_CD_or_DVD_under_Linux
Alternately you can use the disks app if you’d prefer a GUI: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CreateIsoFromCDorDVD
posted by jzb at 2:57 PM on June 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Alternately you can use the disks app if you’d prefer a GUI: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CreateIsoFromCDorDVD
posted by jzb at 2:57 PM on June 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
You say you want to run these programs in the "far future". Having the installation media for the OS is not sufficient for this. There is no guarantee that hardware available in the future will be able to install or reliably run old versions of, e.g. Windows. Virtualization or emulation is more likely to continue to work, but is by no means guaranteed. If you value the ability to run these programs then you have no other options and I wish you luck. This is a problem that the Library of Congress struggles with.
But if the reason you're doing this is that you want to continue to have access to files created in these program's proprietary formats then I think your time would be better spent figuring out how to export the files in open formats that are unlikely to require specific versions of specific software to read or write.
posted by caek at 3:36 PM on June 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
But if the reason you're doing this is that you want to continue to have access to files created in these program's proprietary formats then I think your time would be better spent figuring out how to export the files in open formats that are unlikely to require specific versions of specific software to read or write.
posted by caek at 3:36 PM on June 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Wouldn't you keep a vintage machine around to run them on? I'd think that very classic software probably won't load or run properly on newer machines.
posted by ovvl at 8:35 PM on June 21, 2023
posted by ovvl at 8:35 PM on June 21, 2023
Response by poster: I have vintage machines, believe me, and if I were desperate I'm pretty sure I could throw a rock at a MeFi meetup and hit three people with other vintage machines.
Keeping the software around is mainly in case of emergency, but also --- have you ever tried to export transactions from QuickBooks? No? Just trust me.
Also - I don't really want to spend that much time exporting all my old work files. (not even knowing that batch processing exists).
Instead, I save all that time for explaining why I want to do things whenever I ask someone a question about how to do things.
posted by amtho at 9:24 PM on June 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Keeping the software around is mainly in case of emergency, but also --- have you ever tried to export transactions from QuickBooks? No? Just trust me.
Also - I don't really want to spend that much time exporting all my old work files. (not even knowing that batch processing exists).
Instead, I save all that time for explaining why I want to do things whenever I ask someone a question about how to do things.
posted by amtho at 9:24 PM on June 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I am also keeping alive some pre-CC Adobe suite products. Agree with all the above but wanted to add a crucial piece that helped me with your 'far into the future' desire. Visit Properties on the actual .exe installer files, then look at the Compatibility tab. Tinkering with these settings helped me repair some unreadably small menus in Illustrator and Photoshop. Try the troubleshooter first and then adjust as needed. Edit: I am in Windows 10 currently.
posted by erebora at 10:08 PM on June 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by erebora at 10:08 PM on June 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: ImgBurn hadn't been updated since 2013. In fact, most image software hadn't been updated in YEARS.
posted by kschang at 10:55 PM on June 21, 2023
posted by kschang at 10:55 PM on June 21, 2023
This thread is closed to new comments.
I'd investigate hypervisors that can create an image of a whole virtual machine--both the OS and the software. You could then back up this image and not worry so much about the original media.
posted by pullayup at 1:32 PM on June 21, 2023 [6 favorites]