Parlez-vous French undergrad programs for late teen bloomer
March 26, 2023 6:51 PM Subscribe
Little turtle wasn’t sure she wanted to go to college but now with high school graduation in six weeks, she has changed her mind. We know our state schools are an option but seeking the hive mind for alternatives. More below the fold.
So yeah we are late in the whole college thing for “reasons”. My kid is super bright but only got a 26 on her ACT - and her gpa is good (not amazing). She wants to major in French, study abroad in the future, and if there was some sort of BS to master’s in library science she would do that. We are so behind because of said reasons. What advice do you have for trying to find the best fit for this fall. We have the state school as a sure thing, but what are we not thinking about.
So yeah we are late in the whole college thing for “reasons”. My kid is super bright but only got a 26 on her ACT - and her gpa is good (not amazing). She wants to major in French, study abroad in the future, and if there was some sort of BS to master’s in library science she would do that. We are so behind because of said reasons. What advice do you have for trying to find the best fit for this fall. We have the state school as a sure thing, but what are we not thinking about.
Kalamazoo College has strong study abroad programs (and it’s built in to the curriculum for students to study abroad) its small, so no direct library sciences linkages but likely lots of opportunities to make connections with librarian staff and talk about what the realities look like with a library science degree. Kalamazoo also has a strong emphasis on being well rounded, not just extraordinary test scores or grades. Admissions is likely done for the fall class, but at such a small school the numbers can swing either way so it might be worth reaching out. Does your daughter need to attend school in the fall? Can she take a year and work or do a gap year of some kind?
What part about the state school option isn’t a good fit? Surely they have study abroad programs and are likely to have classes in library sciences as well
posted by raccoon409 at 7:21 PM on March 26, 2023
What part about the state school option isn’t a good fit? Surely they have study abroad programs and are likely to have classes in library sciences as well
posted by raccoon409 at 7:21 PM on March 26, 2023
Response by poster: I like the Quebec angle - clarifying to add we are also looking for info on private schools in the US as well as public schools in any state that are known for French opportunities.
posted by turtlefu at 7:21 PM on March 26, 2023
posted by turtlefu at 7:21 PM on March 26, 2023
What don’t you like about the state school? If she wants to go this fall, that’s a great option. I do not recommend going into extraordinary debt if she wants to pursue a career in librarianship. I’m not familiar with any BS to MLS programs but there are some one year MLS programs anyway, or two year programs where she can get a tuition waiver and assistantship and work in a campus library.
posted by bluedaisy at 7:25 PM on March 26, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 7:25 PM on March 26, 2023 [8 favorites]
Gosh, any state school should have resources to help with study abroad, especially in a popular place like France. See who has a lot of French majors.
posted by bluedaisy at 7:26 PM on March 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by bluedaisy at 7:26 PM on March 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
The first couple of years can be much alike at most colleges. It's pretty seamless to get started at community college, and she can buy time that way to decide on a four-year-program. She can get required classes like first-year composition classes out of the way cheap. There's also a lot of academic support at most community colleges (I'm a professional tutor at one, and was faculty for a long time, and am biased toward them), which can be good for students whose high school record maybe doesn't match their true potential, and there can be pretty seamless integration to transferring to state schools—the college I work at has specific majors like, "transfer—University of Michigan" that help minimize the risk of spending time and money on credits that won't transfer.
I started undergrad at one school and transferred to another, and both were good choices. I like to remind the teenagers in my life that they don't have to have it all figured out the first year. There's a good chance they'll finish at the school where they start, but it's also not complicated to transfer for the years when a student is likely to be most focused on upper-level classes in their major, which is where the difference between one department and another can really matter.
posted by Well I never at 7:35 PM on March 26, 2023 [15 favorites]
I started undergrad at one school and transferred to another, and both were good choices. I like to remind the teenagers in my life that they don't have to have it all figured out the first year. There's a good chance they'll finish at the school where they start, but it's also not complicated to transfer for the years when a student is likely to be most focused on upper-level classes in their major, which is where the difference between one department and another can really matter.
posted by Well I never at 7:35 PM on March 26, 2023 [15 favorites]
Spend a year at community college, get the prerequisites that are in giant, unsupportive lecture classes out of the way there in a more supportive, cheaper environment, and then transfer to State U or somewhere else next year.
I was a TA at UC Berkeley for multiple semesters of a giant lecture class (900-1000 kids). The kids who had transferred to Cal from smaller schools were WAY better prepared for the more advanced classes.
posted by rockindata at 7:39 PM on March 26, 2023 [12 favorites]
I was a TA at UC Berkeley for multiple semesters of a giant lecture class (900-1000 kids). The kids who had transferred to Cal from smaller schools were WAY better prepared for the more advanced classes.
posted by rockindata at 7:39 PM on March 26, 2023 [12 favorites]
Best answer: The obvious question, if she wants to major in French, is what her French grades are like. If her overall GPA is just good, but she's never gotten anything less than an A in French, that's something you could leverage. You (and by you I really mean she) can reach out to French professors for advice and potential help with admission.
But I'm gonna be real honest. Without knowing the reasons, it seems a little just-so to go from not wanting to college at all to not only wanting to go to college, but also wanting to go to grad school and knowing exactly what to study. By no means do I want to throw cold water on someone's dream, but I am just going to ask: are we sure this *is* her dream? And that it's still going to be her dream six months, a year, two years from now?
That's actually one of the biggest benefits of big state schools, in my opinion. (For reference, I'm an alumnus of a big state school.) You go in thinking you're going to major in one thing, but then you take an elective that changes your mind. This is possible at small colleges too, but big schools just have soooo many options.
I looked in your profile, and if you're still where you said you'd be going in your question history, the biggest problem with your local state school is that it's not actually very big. Schools in the South and Midwest are much bigger, with correspondingly more options in terms of majors, social life, etc. By majors, I'm not only saying "things other than French in case she changes her mind", but also including French, because schools with large enrollments are likely to have more French majors and thus more options within the major. I'd suggest looking into state schools in other states as well as your own. I know kids who have gone to North Carolina, South Carolina, Clemson, Alabama, Ole Miss, etc. - it's kind of a trend for Southern schools to recruit Northerners these days.
The other helpful thing about big schools is that all the extracurricular stuff - sports, Greek life, etc. - are helpful in building a sense of belonging such that even if her mind does change and she decides she doesn't actually want to major in French, she won't reconsider everything and drop out.
The study abroad thing is a non-factor. Plenty of schools have study abroad programs of their own, and whether or not they do, there are innumerable accredited programs from other schools that she could enroll in for credit. Boston University's School for Field Studies has a ton of programs that I've heard are really easy to transfer the credit for.
Since it's so late in the admissions process, and many spots in incoming classes are already filled, it wouldn't be the worst idea to take a gap year to maybe retake the SAT/ACT, take some online French classes, and/or get a job at a library. If you have a local chapter of the Alliance Francaise, that might be a good place to start poking around.
posted by kevinbelt at 7:45 PM on March 26, 2023 [14 favorites]
But I'm gonna be real honest. Without knowing the reasons, it seems a little just-so to go from not wanting to college at all to not only wanting to go to college, but also wanting to go to grad school and knowing exactly what to study. By no means do I want to throw cold water on someone's dream, but I am just going to ask: are we sure this *is* her dream? And that it's still going to be her dream six months, a year, two years from now?
That's actually one of the biggest benefits of big state schools, in my opinion. (For reference, I'm an alumnus of a big state school.) You go in thinking you're going to major in one thing, but then you take an elective that changes your mind. This is possible at small colleges too, but big schools just have soooo many options.
I looked in your profile, and if you're still where you said you'd be going in your question history, the biggest problem with your local state school is that it's not actually very big. Schools in the South and Midwest are much bigger, with correspondingly more options in terms of majors, social life, etc. By majors, I'm not only saying "things other than French in case she changes her mind", but also including French, because schools with large enrollments are likely to have more French majors and thus more options within the major. I'd suggest looking into state schools in other states as well as your own. I know kids who have gone to North Carolina, South Carolina, Clemson, Alabama, Ole Miss, etc. - it's kind of a trend for Southern schools to recruit Northerners these days.
The other helpful thing about big schools is that all the extracurricular stuff - sports, Greek life, etc. - are helpful in building a sense of belonging such that even if her mind does change and she decides she doesn't actually want to major in French, she won't reconsider everything and drop out.
The study abroad thing is a non-factor. Plenty of schools have study abroad programs of their own, and whether or not they do, there are innumerable accredited programs from other schools that she could enroll in for credit. Boston University's School for Field Studies has a ton of programs that I've heard are really easy to transfer the credit for.
Since it's so late in the admissions process, and many spots in incoming classes are already filled, it wouldn't be the worst idea to take a gap year to maybe retake the SAT/ACT, take some online French classes, and/or get a job at a library. If you have a local chapter of the Alliance Francaise, that might be a good place to start poking around.
posted by kevinbelt at 7:45 PM on March 26, 2023 [14 favorites]
Unless your child is rather academic or is basically unlikely to graduate without this particular anchor interest, a French major is a little silly on its face. Because taking French classes and studying abroad is sufficient to speak enough French to prove you can do French. It’s better to use the French to prop up or supplement another interest, whether it’s the library science or something else, even if that something else is not even pre-professional. (French plus Art History, French plus Comp Lit, French plus Oceanography).
Also, yes to community college for a year or two. Or a gap year where she works and interns and saves money and then does an intensive language program somewhere. It’s not a great idea to pay private school money for a school that is so unselective as to be taking applications right now.
posted by vunder at 10:40 PM on March 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
Also, yes to community college for a year or two. Or a gap year where she works and interns and saves money and then does an intensive language program somewhere. It’s not a great idea to pay private school money for a school that is so unselective as to be taking applications right now.
posted by vunder at 10:40 PM on March 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Take the state college and see what she decides after a year. Note that you don't have to study abroad through a scheme from a local institution. There are plenty of institutions in France that will take your daughter. Here's a place to start (not a recommendation, there are other places).
posted by dg at 10:42 PM on March 26, 2023
posted by dg at 10:42 PM on March 26, 2023
Has she also considered a library technician diploma?
posted by kate4914 at 10:47 PM on March 26, 2023
posted by kate4914 at 10:47 PM on March 26, 2023
There are lots of types of college, does she want urban, rural, suburban, small, large, near to home, far away, with sports, sororities, without those things...
Has she visited any colleges? Unless you live in Wyoming, there’s probably one of every type nearby. If she might want to major in French, which is as good a choice as any other liberal arts major, then she needs somewhere that has a critical mass of other French majors. A larger or more selective smaller school is more likely to provide that.
posted by plonkee at 12:21 AM on March 27, 2023
Has she visited any colleges? Unless you live in Wyoming, there’s probably one of every type nearby. If she might want to major in French, which is as good a choice as any other liberal arts major, then she needs somewhere that has a critical mass of other French majors. A larger or more selective smaller school is more likely to provide that.
posted by plonkee at 12:21 AM on March 27, 2023
My best recommendation would be to schedule an appointment with a professional college counselor for you and your daughter (quite possibly separately). There's a lot to unpack here and you're probably best off getting advice from someone who specializes in finding the right college path for teens.
There's nothing wrong with not knowing what you want to do at that age (I jumped between four different majors in college and still managed to never graduate) but with the crazy costs of schools these days compared to when we were in school, starting off with a bad plan has a much bigger impact.
We have the state school as a sure thing
When you say that, do you mean that she applied and got into at least one state school and there's still time to reply to the acceptance? Or do you mean that she could apply and presumably get in and start in 2024?
If the latter, I'd agree that the best path is community college for the first year to knock out typically required core requirements on the cheap to demonstrate that she does have the commitment to going to school.
we are also looking for info on private schools in the US as well as public schools in any state that are known for French opportunities.
Unless you're wealthy to the point that you can shrug off high private or out of state tuition rates, I would strongly suggest that you don't let her or yourselves go into debt for a mercurial teenager's last minute desire to go to college. If she's truly going to focus on studying French, there's little professional difference between a top tier school and an adequate one but the effects of crippling debt has significant impacts. I would take any expensive option off the table if I were you.
As noted above, almost any state school will have a study abroad option in France.
Studying a language, while it can be lovely, isn't a major that leads to a career path, as one of my exes found out. There's some translation work, some government work, and working for a company that does a lot of international business with that country and that's largely about it. And there's not a ton of any of those positions.
It sounds like your daughter needs a plan for how what she wants to study will lead to a career. The MLS route provides one, albeit a tough path. What majors might help get her into one of those programs? Will French do so? If not, maybe it should be a minor rather than her major.
what are we not thinking about
Is she truly ready for college or is she just hearing all her friends making their plans for the next stage in life in the coming months and wanting to be able to do the same thing?
posted by Candleman at 12:47 AM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
There's nothing wrong with not knowing what you want to do at that age (I jumped between four different majors in college and still managed to never graduate) but with the crazy costs of schools these days compared to when we were in school, starting off with a bad plan has a much bigger impact.
We have the state school as a sure thing
When you say that, do you mean that she applied and got into at least one state school and there's still time to reply to the acceptance? Or do you mean that she could apply and presumably get in and start in 2024?
If the latter, I'd agree that the best path is community college for the first year to knock out typically required core requirements on the cheap to demonstrate that she does have the commitment to going to school.
we are also looking for info on private schools in the US as well as public schools in any state that are known for French opportunities.
Unless you're wealthy to the point that you can shrug off high private or out of state tuition rates, I would strongly suggest that you don't let her or yourselves go into debt for a mercurial teenager's last minute desire to go to college. If she's truly going to focus on studying French, there's little professional difference between a top tier school and an adequate one but the effects of crippling debt has significant impacts. I would take any expensive option off the table if I were you.
As noted above, almost any state school will have a study abroad option in France.
Studying a language, while it can be lovely, isn't a major that leads to a career path, as one of my exes found out. There's some translation work, some government work, and working for a company that does a lot of international business with that country and that's largely about it. And there's not a ton of any of those positions.
It sounds like your daughter needs a plan for how what she wants to study will lead to a career. The MLS route provides one, albeit a tough path. What majors might help get her into one of those programs? Will French do so? If not, maybe it should be a minor rather than her major.
what are we not thinking about
Is she truly ready for college or is she just hearing all her friends making their plans for the next stage in life in the coming months and wanting to be able to do the same thing?
posted by Candleman at 12:47 AM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: A couple suggestions (as the parent of a student who was in a similar position to yours):
Community College! Seriously, there is no downside to this approach. My son barely avoided failing out of high school. And when I say barely, I mean it's almsot certain that one of his teachers just bumped him up the few missing points he needed to graduate on time. He's bright, but he is extremely lazy.
The agreement we struck was that he could continue to live rent-free as long as he (1) had a full-time job or (2) had a part-time job and took part-time courses at the local CC. He opted for option (2). It was pretty amazing, because most CCs have you pursuing the basic core courses under a two year AA/AS program. It's flexible and affordable. You get to try things on for size without big worries baout the investment. Through a combination of kiddo's own interest in computers and a fantastic professor, he discovered an interest in physics. That turned into a driving interest in physics. At the end of his AS, he appled for other state schools in our state (all of which offer preferred admission to students coming up through the CC system). To his /our surprise, he was accepted into the top-ranked school in the state, which happens to be in the top 5 physics universities in the world. ALl this was with barely-passing high school transcript and pretty bad test scores from back then.
Kiddo has since ridden that degree program to an extramural program at a big-name particle accelerator. Which led to more things. And he's been living abroad ever since.
I'll also say that my undergrad state university in Arkansas has an amazing opportunity called the Donaghey Scholars Program. This is not an expensive university. I grew up nearby and took it for granted (it's acronym is UALR, which I always referred to as the Univeristy of Absolute Last Resort). WHen my uni years arrived andI had no funding to go to the fancy private universities I'd gotten into in the rest of the world, I bitterly, grudgingly accepted the Donaghey Scholarship and went to UALR (the scholarship pays for you to get 2 bachelors degrees, one of them has to be a second language). Let me tell you... that university was and is better than any of the extremely expensive private universities I've since attended for additional degrees. And they pay you a cash stipend each semester for living expenses. And they pay for you to live/study abroad for at least a summer term, which you can extend by seemsters. So, dear reader, please do consider this program. I am so proud of my little uni of last resprt that I help fund the endowment to keep the Scholar's program running. It has a history of taking in students with non-traditional paths to higher education, so an AA would make you a really attractive candidate.
Long story short, there are underrated gems of higher education everywhere.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:57 AM on March 27, 2023 [10 favorites]
Community College! Seriously, there is no downside to this approach. My son barely avoided failing out of high school. And when I say barely, I mean it's almsot certain that one of his teachers just bumped him up the few missing points he needed to graduate on time. He's bright, but he is extremely lazy.
The agreement we struck was that he could continue to live rent-free as long as he (1) had a full-time job or (2) had a part-time job and took part-time courses at the local CC. He opted for option (2). It was pretty amazing, because most CCs have you pursuing the basic core courses under a two year AA/AS program. It's flexible and affordable. You get to try things on for size without big worries baout the investment. Through a combination of kiddo's own interest in computers and a fantastic professor, he discovered an interest in physics. That turned into a driving interest in physics. At the end of his AS, he appled for other state schools in our state (all of which offer preferred admission to students coming up through the CC system). To his /our surprise, he was accepted into the top-ranked school in the state, which happens to be in the top 5 physics universities in the world. ALl this was with barely-passing high school transcript and pretty bad test scores from back then.
Kiddo has since ridden that degree program to an extramural program at a big-name particle accelerator. Which led to more things. And he's been living abroad ever since.
I'll also say that my undergrad state university in Arkansas has an amazing opportunity called the Donaghey Scholars Program. This is not an expensive university. I grew up nearby and took it for granted (it's acronym is UALR, which I always referred to as the Univeristy of Absolute Last Resort). WHen my uni years arrived andI had no funding to go to the fancy private universities I'd gotten into in the rest of the world, I bitterly, grudgingly accepted the Donaghey Scholarship and went to UALR (the scholarship pays for you to get 2 bachelors degrees, one of them has to be a second language). Let me tell you... that university was and is better than any of the extremely expensive private universities I've since attended for additional degrees. And they pay you a cash stipend each semester for living expenses. And they pay for you to live/study abroad for at least a summer term, which you can extend by seemsters. So, dear reader, please do consider this program. I am so proud of my little uni of last resprt that I help fund the endowment to keep the Scholar's program running. It has a history of taking in students with non-traditional paths to higher education, so an AA would make you a really attractive candidate.
Long story short, there are underrated gems of higher education everywhere.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:57 AM on March 27, 2023 [10 favorites]
Best answer: First, you're not behind at all; you're exactly where you should be with a high school senior who managed to get an education through the pandemic. You're fine, she's fine. Relax.
What I am seeing in this situation is (and this is no disrespect to your very clever and wonderful kid) some very, very typical delayed emotional growth. By this I mean that pre-pandemic, high school seniors were expected to be somewhat adrift but there was an overall developmental maturity that came with being with peers daily, and part of that maturity was the comprehension of high school-post high school education-career trajectory.
Post-pandemic kids are not tracking the same way, and it's totally within the range of now-normal thinking to not be prepared for this and instead to have more flighty perceptions of college. So saying they don't want to go at all and suddenly deciding otherwise AND with a career plan means she's trying to problem solve, but is still not quite developmentally ready.
So what we do is give her time and ideally we would want to do this effectively. I would consider state colleges and more importantly have a clear understanding that she **may** change her mind about her major and her life plans, and that's fine.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 3:42 AM on March 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
What I am seeing in this situation is (and this is no disrespect to your very clever and wonderful kid) some very, very typical delayed emotional growth. By this I mean that pre-pandemic, high school seniors were expected to be somewhat adrift but there was an overall developmental maturity that came with being with peers daily, and part of that maturity was the comprehension of high school-post high school education-career trajectory.
Post-pandemic kids are not tracking the same way, and it's totally within the range of now-normal thinking to not be prepared for this and instead to have more flighty perceptions of college. So saying they don't want to go at all and suddenly deciding otherwise AND with a career plan means she's trying to problem solve, but is still not quite developmentally ready.
So what we do is give her time and ideally we would want to do this effectively. I would consider state colleges and more importantly have a clear understanding that she **may** change her mind about her major and her life plans, and that's fine.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 3:42 AM on March 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Seconding community college as a great starting point. Massachusetts has a program where you can start in a community college, earn an Associate's, then have guaranteed admittance to a state school to finish a Bachelor's. Maybe your state has something similar.
posted by carrioncomfort at 8:48 AM on March 27, 2023
posted by carrioncomfort at 8:48 AM on March 27, 2023
Response by poster: Thanks all. The challenge to asking a question is always how to ask it in a way to answer the question you do not know how to articulate. The small programs likes honors programs embedded in school and the community resources are great advice. And yes this year's HS graduates had an interesting 4 years navigating the pandemic.
posted by turtlefu at 3:31 PM on March 27, 2023
posted by turtlefu at 3:31 PM on March 27, 2023
One thing that may be useful when you're Googling around is looking for colleges that have "rolling admissions", which means that they'll still accept students up until they start their fall semester. The University of Pittsburgh, for example, has this type of admissions plan.
You may find this link helpful.
posted by matkline at 12:20 AM on March 29, 2023
You may find this link helpful.
posted by matkline at 12:20 AM on March 29, 2023
As a heads up, there is overall less financial aid available applicants applying "off cycle." (E.g. financial aid funds can get exhausted, there might be a priority deadline to get aid, etc.) Whether or not this affects your daughter depends on your individual situation and the school itself.
Just thowing this out there, but what about a gap year with time spent in a Francophone country?
posted by oceano at 10:27 PM on March 29, 2023
Just thowing this out there, but what about a gap year with time spent in a Francophone country?
posted by oceano at 10:27 PM on March 29, 2023
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