My parents no longer like my spouse and I don't blame them
March 18, 2023 3:25 AM Subscribe
My spouse and I had an argument in the presence of my parents. It was very ugly, and we will be starting couples counseling ASAP. My parents are deeply concerned about my well-being and their view of my spouse is severely diminished. How do we go on from here?
My spouse and I had an argument, which from my perspective in the moment, should have been nothing more than a minor spat. Unbeknownst to me at the time, I'd said something that was extremely triggering to them, and they exploded at me. They said some truly horrible things. They went for the jugular, and said they wanted a divorce, their decision was final, and nothing I could say would change their mind.
My parents were staying with us at the time and overheard bits and pieces. They tried to comfort me while my spouse gave me the cold shoulder that evening and into the next morning, and saw me so devastated that I couldn't eat or sleep. They somehow had the grace not to involve themselves between me and my spouse, but I know they were very upset. Not just upset to see that my spouse had the capacity to speak to me in such an ugly way, but to do so in front of them. And for that very reason, that my spouse was willing to burn down their relationship with my parents too, I believed their threat of divorce was real.
The next day my spouse had a change of heart and no longer wished to divorce. We made the best of the last few days of my parents' visit, as well as we could with the ensuing awkwardness, and my spouse agreed to start couples counseling as soon as possible. My parents reached out to me upon returning home and shared their deep concern that I'm being mistreated. I don't blame them at all. Were I in there shoes, I would have been horrified. I am horrified. My trust and my parents' trust in my spouse has been shattered, and I've expressed this to my spouse. My spouse knows they've done irreparable damage. My parents are quite forgiving, but they're also very protective of me and I fear they may never forgive my spouse.
To make things more convoluted, there is also a long, complex history of unhealthy family dynamics between my mother and father, and between my parents and me. I don't doubt that my parents are reckoning with whether the knock-down-drag-out fights they modeled for me as a child, and too often pulled me into, have influenced my own adult relationships. I'm also so very embarrassed. I feel like my parents view me as a child again. I feel like I've lost some degree of their respect, and if I stay with my spouse they might believe I'm doing so out of weakness.
My spouse has apologized to me, but not yet to my parents - should they? And assuming that we can repair our marriage with the help of counseling, how do we repair matters with my parents?
I would also welcome any personal stories of how you were able to mend things after such a rift, including how long it took, the work that was put in, and how the relationship was changed thereafter.
My spouse and I had an argument, which from my perspective in the moment, should have been nothing more than a minor spat. Unbeknownst to me at the time, I'd said something that was extremely triggering to them, and they exploded at me. They said some truly horrible things. They went for the jugular, and said they wanted a divorce, their decision was final, and nothing I could say would change their mind.
My parents were staying with us at the time and overheard bits and pieces. They tried to comfort me while my spouse gave me the cold shoulder that evening and into the next morning, and saw me so devastated that I couldn't eat or sleep. They somehow had the grace not to involve themselves between me and my spouse, but I know they were very upset. Not just upset to see that my spouse had the capacity to speak to me in such an ugly way, but to do so in front of them. And for that very reason, that my spouse was willing to burn down their relationship with my parents too, I believed their threat of divorce was real.
The next day my spouse had a change of heart and no longer wished to divorce. We made the best of the last few days of my parents' visit, as well as we could with the ensuing awkwardness, and my spouse agreed to start couples counseling as soon as possible. My parents reached out to me upon returning home and shared their deep concern that I'm being mistreated. I don't blame them at all. Were I in there shoes, I would have been horrified. I am horrified. My trust and my parents' trust in my spouse has been shattered, and I've expressed this to my spouse. My spouse knows they've done irreparable damage. My parents are quite forgiving, but they're also very protective of me and I fear they may never forgive my spouse.
To make things more convoluted, there is also a long, complex history of unhealthy family dynamics between my mother and father, and between my parents and me. I don't doubt that my parents are reckoning with whether the knock-down-drag-out fights they modeled for me as a child, and too often pulled me into, have influenced my own adult relationships. I'm also so very embarrassed. I feel like my parents view me as a child again. I feel like I've lost some degree of their respect, and if I stay with my spouse they might believe I'm doing so out of weakness.
My spouse has apologized to me, but not yet to my parents - should they? And assuming that we can repair our marriage with the help of counseling, how do we repair matters with my parents?
I would also welcome any personal stories of how you were able to mend things after such a rift, including how long it took, the work that was put in, and how the relationship was changed thereafter.
I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. I was getting ready to say the same thing as plonkee. Behave pretty much as you would if your parents had not been there. You (singular and plural) should figure out what you want to do and then present it to your parents as a firm decision. Don't make them part of any back and forth.
I haven't had exactly your experience, but I have witnessed plenty of conflicts between couples while being a houseguest, including with family. There is something about that situation that seems to exacerbate any problems that may be brewing currently. And things have gotten tense between me and my partner while staying with people, to the extent that I have told everyone I was opting out of whatever plans we had and taking my partner off for some "us time." Here on Metafilter people talk about "team us" and I think that is a useful concept here. You are having problems, but your relationship with your spouse still comes first.
This isn't part of your question, but due to some of the things I've described I generally don't stay with people in their homes any more. Especially with family, it can be kind of a powder keg.
posted by BibiRose at 4:46 AM on March 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
I haven't had exactly your experience, but I have witnessed plenty of conflicts between couples while being a houseguest, including with family. There is something about that situation that seems to exacerbate any problems that may be brewing currently. And things have gotten tense between me and my partner while staying with people, to the extent that I have told everyone I was opting out of whatever plans we had and taking my partner off for some "us time." Here on Metafilter people talk about "team us" and I think that is a useful concept here. You are having problems, but your relationship with your spouse still comes first.
This isn't part of your question, but due to some of the things I've described I generally don't stay with people in their homes any more. Especially with family, it can be kind of a powder keg.
posted by BibiRose at 4:46 AM on March 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
My spouse has apologized to me, but not yet to my parents - should they? And assuming that we can repair our marriage with the help of counseling, how do we repair matters with my parents?
This is not really a we thing. If you want your spouse to apologize to your parents, then you should tell them that you would like them to apologize to your parents. Then they will or they won't but you cannot really fix the awkwardness and tension created by your spouse's outburst and behavior in front of your parents.
As others have noted, it might be wisest to focus on your marriage and your relationship with your spouse and let your spouse and your parents work out, or not, whatever is going on in their relationship.
I feel like I've lost some degree of their respect, and if I stay with my spouse they might believe I'm doing so out of weakness.
With all respect, fuck that kind of thinking. What matters most is what you believe, what you feel, how you are being treated, and how you treat others. If you choose to stay with your spouse, that is your business; it should not matter (although I know it often does) what they think.
It is impossible to control how others feel or behave. All we can do is set the boundaries that we, as individuals, need to stay healthy and hold those boundaries as needed. Given that you have a "long, complex history of unhealthy family dynamics between my mother and father, and between my parents and me," consider checking out Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional Families meetings either online or in person. If one or both of your parents were alcoholics or addicts, you might find Al-Anon as helpful as I have.
Unhealthy family dynamics are challenging to change. I wish you all the best in repairing your marriage. I am so sorry your spouse lost their shit in a hurtful way in front of your parents. I am especially sorry that you feel embarrassed; you cannot be responsible for your spouse's behavior. You have nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about. If your parents are treating you like a child again, that is on them and not on you. Don't fall for it. Reassert your boundaries. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 5:16 AM on March 18, 2023 [15 favorites]
This is not really a we thing. If you want your spouse to apologize to your parents, then you should tell them that you would like them to apologize to your parents. Then they will or they won't but you cannot really fix the awkwardness and tension created by your spouse's outburst and behavior in front of your parents.
As others have noted, it might be wisest to focus on your marriage and your relationship with your spouse and let your spouse and your parents work out, or not, whatever is going on in their relationship.
I feel like I've lost some degree of their respect, and if I stay with my spouse they might believe I'm doing so out of weakness.
With all respect, fuck that kind of thinking. What matters most is what you believe, what you feel, how you are being treated, and how you treat others. If you choose to stay with your spouse, that is your business; it should not matter (although I know it often does) what they think.
It is impossible to control how others feel or behave. All we can do is set the boundaries that we, as individuals, need to stay healthy and hold those boundaries as needed. Given that you have a "long, complex history of unhealthy family dynamics between my mother and father, and between my parents and me," consider checking out Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional Families meetings either online or in person. If one or both of your parents were alcoholics or addicts, you might find Al-Anon as helpful as I have.
Unhealthy family dynamics are challenging to change. I wish you all the best in repairing your marriage. I am so sorry your spouse lost their shit in a hurtful way in front of your parents. I am especially sorry that you feel embarrassed; you cannot be responsible for your spouse's behavior. You have nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about. If your parents are treating you like a child again, that is on them and not on you. Don't fall for it. Reassert your boundaries. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 5:16 AM on March 18, 2023 [15 favorites]
I keep my parents at a pretty firm arm's length from anything important about my life, so keep that bias in mind when I say: the only thing I would do in your shoes is a brief one time "Hey, I'm sorry you had to overhear that. It was uncharacteristic, Spouse and I will be working with a counselor to decide how and if to move forward from it and I'd rather not talk more about it right now." That's it. I would not get involved in whether my spouse apologizes to my parents beyond expressing, once, whatever my own preference is. I would not spend my time worrying about whether my parents are worrying about whether the way they raised me is causing me problems. They can find their own counselor to talk to about that.
You don't even know if you forgive your spouse yet or can repair your relationship. Work on that. The rest can be figured out later once you have a clear path forward for the marriage.
posted by Stacey at 5:32 AM on March 18, 2023 [38 favorites]
You don't even know if you forgive your spouse yet or can repair your relationship. Work on that. The rest can be figured out later once you have a clear path forward for the marriage.
posted by Stacey at 5:32 AM on March 18, 2023 [38 favorites]
I feel like I've lost some degree of their respect, and if I stay with my spouse they might believe I'm doing so out of weakness.
Is this really a worry about your parents, or is this a way to express that you are concerned that you are not making the right choice by staying? What I don't see anywhere in your question is a clear statement of what you want. Your spouse wanted a divorce, now they want to stay together, and it sounds like you are going along with that. But what is it that you really want out of the deal?
I would word it differently, but I agree with the point of this script, to reassure your parents but keep some space while things get resolved, assuming you do decide to try and repair the relationship: "Hey, I'm sorry you had to overhear that. It was uncharacteristic, Spouse and I will be working with a counselor to decide how and if to move forward from it and I'd rather not talk more about it right now."
But to the point I started with, more important than couples counseling is for you to figure out (maybe with therapy, maybe by reflection) what you yourself want, and what will need to change (in the relationship or by your spouse) to make that happen. Otherwise I think you run the risk of just papering over what happened without really resolving the dynamics that caused it. Without suggesting that these are the right choices for you, you do need to make sure that "taking a break for a little while" and "separating" are option that you consider, if for no other reason than to confirm to yourself that staying is the right choice for you.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:11 AM on March 18, 2023 [16 favorites]
Is this really a worry about your parents, or is this a way to express that you are concerned that you are not making the right choice by staying? What I don't see anywhere in your question is a clear statement of what you want. Your spouse wanted a divorce, now they want to stay together, and it sounds like you are going along with that. But what is it that you really want out of the deal?
I would word it differently, but I agree with the point of this script, to reassure your parents but keep some space while things get resolved, assuming you do decide to try and repair the relationship: "Hey, I'm sorry you had to overhear that. It was uncharacteristic, Spouse and I will be working with a counselor to decide how and if to move forward from it and I'd rather not talk more about it right now."
But to the point I started with, more important than couples counseling is for you to figure out (maybe with therapy, maybe by reflection) what you yourself want, and what will need to change (in the relationship or by your spouse) to make that happen. Otherwise I think you run the risk of just papering over what happened without really resolving the dynamics that caused it. Without suggesting that these are the right choices for you, you do need to make sure that "taking a break for a little while" and "separating" are option that you consider, if for no other reason than to confirm to yourself that staying is the right choice for you.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:11 AM on March 18, 2023 [16 favorites]
I don’t know if your parents are happily married but they are still married so if anyone knows that a relationship can bear knock down drag out fights, it’s them. I know that they’re worried about you but given their past and the environment they raised you in, they’re not in much of a position to judge the health of another couple’s relationship.
They are concerned though so I think at the very least you should tell them that you’re shaken but physically safe (assuming that’s correct) and you and your partner are working on it and you’d appreciate their support and non interference (assuming that’s true).
You can’t repair things between your partner and them and right now that’s the least of your concern. If you manage to patch things up and your parents see you two happy and getting along, that’s all any parent wants and if that happens it will go a long way towards putting it behind them.
But it’s not their feelings that matter - do you want to put it behind you?! These are all things to consider with a therapist and your partner - but not your parents.
Anyway, you have nothing to feel ashamed about, many couples fight, many couples repair the arguments. Yours just happened to have witnesses. Focus on your marriage.
posted by Jubey at 6:13 AM on March 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
They are concerned though so I think at the very least you should tell them that you’re shaken but physically safe (assuming that’s correct) and you and your partner are working on it and you’d appreciate their support and non interference (assuming that’s true).
You can’t repair things between your partner and them and right now that’s the least of your concern. If you manage to patch things up and your parents see you two happy and getting along, that’s all any parent wants and if that happens it will go a long way towards putting it behind them.
But it’s not their feelings that matter - do you want to put it behind you?! These are all things to consider with a therapist and your partner - but not your parents.
Anyway, you have nothing to feel ashamed about, many couples fight, many couples repair the arguments. Yours just happened to have witnesses. Focus on your marriage.
posted by Jubey at 6:13 AM on March 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
If you are being mistreated (and you were!) your parents are right to hate the person harming you. If that person stops harming you and starts being a consistent force for good in your life, your parents will (eventually, might take years) mostly start to like them again.
A much bigger issue is why YOU still like someone who went for your jugular and threatened you (threatening to leave is a threat). From the outside, I sure don’t like that person either.
The most important question is this: why do you want to salvage a relationship with someone who was harbouring those thoughts about you?
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:35 AM on March 18, 2023 [17 favorites]
A much bigger issue is why YOU still like someone who went for your jugular and threatened you (threatening to leave is a threat). From the outside, I sure don’t like that person either.
The most important question is this: why do you want to salvage a relationship with someone who was harbouring those thoughts about you?
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:35 AM on March 18, 2023 [17 favorites]
I am horrified. My trust and my parents' trust in my spouse has been shattered, and I've expressed this to my spouse.
I think it is fine to focus on this part of what happened. Your parents' feelings can wait.
I'm also so very embarrassed. I feel like my parents view me as a child again. I feel like I've lost some degree of their respect, and if I stay with my spouse they might believe I'm doing so out of weakness.
I was in your parents' position, except the family member experienced some violence (a quite serious shove). I just want to reassure you that this was not how I perceived the situation at all (child, weakness). I was concerned for that family member, but not in a diminishment of them way.
My spouse has apologized to me, but not yet to my parents - should they? And assuming that we can repair our marriage with the help of counseling, how do we repair matters with my parents?
I think you do the repair first and then worry about the second. In the case I was just talking about, the shoving spouse entered individual counselling as well and after a good long time - I want to say about 6-8 months? - did talk to me about it, taking full responsibility and outlining the steps they had taken to be sure that things did not get violent again. That person's emphasis was not at all on repairing things with me, except by being transparent and honest and clearly invested in doing better.
What really repaired things is that as far as I know, things actually got better. And for that, it takes time and work. I can't say things went back to 100%, but I get why my relative is still in the marriage and things are - fine. Families and marriages can be complicated.
That kind of leads me to - I totally get why you are worrying about your parents, but really it's about you and how you are. I would advise that you get your own individual support.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:39 AM on March 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
I think it is fine to focus on this part of what happened. Your parents' feelings can wait.
I'm also so very embarrassed. I feel like my parents view me as a child again. I feel like I've lost some degree of their respect, and if I stay with my spouse they might believe I'm doing so out of weakness.
I was in your parents' position, except the family member experienced some violence (a quite serious shove). I just want to reassure you that this was not how I perceived the situation at all (child, weakness). I was concerned for that family member, but not in a diminishment of them way.
My spouse has apologized to me, but not yet to my parents - should they? And assuming that we can repair our marriage with the help of counseling, how do we repair matters with my parents?
I think you do the repair first and then worry about the second. In the case I was just talking about, the shoving spouse entered individual counselling as well and after a good long time - I want to say about 6-8 months? - did talk to me about it, taking full responsibility and outlining the steps they had taken to be sure that things did not get violent again. That person's emphasis was not at all on repairing things with me, except by being transparent and honest and clearly invested in doing better.
What really repaired things is that as far as I know, things actually got better. And for that, it takes time and work. I can't say things went back to 100%, but I get why my relative is still in the marriage and things are - fine. Families and marriages can be complicated.
That kind of leads me to - I totally get why you are worrying about your parents, but really it's about you and how you are. I would advise that you get your own individual support.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:39 AM on March 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
I don't have a clear sense of whether you have actually forgiven your spouse, or whether you want to forgive them despite feeling in your heart that their behavior was, if not unforgivable, very fucked up. Fucked up in a way that was unanticipated and veering towards the point of no repair. I know this Maya Angelou quote is a bit of an internet commonplace, but when someone shows you who they are, believe them...
posted by Morpeth at 6:46 AM on March 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Morpeth at 6:46 AM on March 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Hey, I want to write to you as I wish someone had written to past me some time ago.
My spouse some years ago treated me unforgiveably, but I didn't want my family to think I had repeated the mistakes of the past and gotten into a relationship as bad as theirs, and so I found ways to patch it together and paper it over, because I wanted them to think well of me. And I minimized, and denied, and stayed in a terrible relationship for years.
I don't know if this is you or not. But I want to really encourage you to think long and hard about whether you really want to be with your spouse or not, and not to let your desire to be seen a certain way by your parents interfere with that thought and decision.
posted by corb at 7:13 AM on March 18, 2023 [63 favorites]
My spouse some years ago treated me unforgiveably, but I didn't want my family to think I had repeated the mistakes of the past and gotten into a relationship as bad as theirs, and so I found ways to patch it together and paper it over, because I wanted them to think well of me. And I minimized, and denied, and stayed in a terrible relationship for years.
I don't know if this is you or not. But I want to really encourage you to think long and hard about whether you really want to be with your spouse or not, and not to let your desire to be seen a certain way by your parents interfere with that thought and decision.
posted by corb at 7:13 AM on March 18, 2023 [63 favorites]
Your spouse did something really shitty, and intentionally in front of your parents who they had to have known was extra shitty because of your past. People argue in lots of ways when guests are visiting - quietly, or they take walks to argue, or they realize they are going to blow and step out to cool off, or they ask the visitors to leave for a bit. There are options to fight - your spouse intentionally selected none of these. If your spouse really wants to fix this, they should apologize to you and your parents without you having to ask them. If they don't, is this who you want to be with?
Also getting strong vibes that you feel like you can counter some of your upbringing if you stay with your spouse - but based on the fact that your parents are still together, it sounds like you are just replicating it. Is that what you want for you?
Take both your parents and your spouse out of the equation - what do you want? why? can anyone in this scenario other than you give it to you?
posted by Toddles at 8:19 AM on March 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
Also getting strong vibes that you feel like you can counter some of your upbringing if you stay with your spouse - but based on the fact that your parents are still together, it sounds like you are just replicating it. Is that what you want for you?
Take both your parents and your spouse out of the equation - what do you want? why? can anyone in this scenario other than you give it to you?
posted by Toddles at 8:19 AM on March 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
If this argument had not been overheard, would you guys be going to couples counseling now? Or would you have minimized this incident and brushed it aside? Have you perhaps been minimizing things for a while already, and this was less “uncharacteristic” so much as “public”?
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:21 AM on March 18, 2023 [29 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:21 AM on March 18, 2023 [29 favorites]
My spouse and I had an argument, which from my perspective in the moment, should have been nothing more than a minor spat. Unbeknownst to me at the time, I'd said something that was extremely triggering to them, and they exploded at me. They said some truly horrible things. They went for the jugular, and said they wanted a divorce, their decision was final, and nothing I could say would change their mind.
This is telling. You said something that was extremely triggering to your spouse, and your spouse exploded. A person does not say that they want a divorce out of the blue. I think that you are minimizing your spouse's feelings in this situation, and I encourage you to question your motives over asking MetaFilter to give you reasons why your spouse should now grovel to you and your parents.
Couples counselling can be very dangerous when there is gaslighting in the relationship. In this situation, individual counselling will likely be far safer for your spouse and for you.
posted by heatherlogan at 8:50 AM on March 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
This is telling. You said something that was extremely triggering to your spouse, and your spouse exploded. A person does not say that they want a divorce out of the blue. I think that you are minimizing your spouse's feelings in this situation, and I encourage you to question your motives over asking MetaFilter to give you reasons why your spouse should now grovel to you and your parents.
Couples counselling can be very dangerous when there is gaslighting in the relationship. In this situation, individual counselling will likely be far safer for your spouse and for you.
posted by heatherlogan at 8:50 AM on March 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
You said something that was extremely triggering to your spouse, and your spouse exploded. A person does not say that they want a divorce out of the blue. I think that you are minimizing your spouse's feelings in this situation,
I also find this extremely concerning and problematic. Adults are responsible for their own behaviour, full stop.
I was coming here to recommend individual counselling as well, but because I see danger in couples counselling for the OP.
posted by bighappyhairydog at 9:29 AM on March 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I also find this extremely concerning and problematic. Adults are responsible for their own behaviour, full stop.
I was coming here to recommend individual counselling as well, but because I see danger in couples counselling for the OP.
posted by bighappyhairydog at 9:29 AM on March 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
An apology is more than words. They can say the words, of their own volition, to your parents if they think it's important...but the real apology, which is a conversation, comes after the repair.
This is assuming repair of the damaged relationships happens at all. Right now your parents don't want apology words, they want to know their child is safe at home! If an apology would be an attempt to create that state of being it's not appropriate yet (why would they believe Spouse?), and if it's just "I'm sorry you had to see that" it's not appropriate at all.
posted by Grim Fridge at 9:33 AM on March 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
This is assuming repair of the damaged relationships happens at all. Right now your parents don't want apology words, they want to know their child is safe at home! If an apology would be an attempt to create that state of being it's not appropriate yet (why would they believe Spouse?), and if it's just "I'm sorry you had to see that" it's not appropriate at all.
posted by Grim Fridge at 9:33 AM on March 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Your spouse did something really shitty, and intentionally in front of your parents who they had to have known was extra shitty because of your past. People argue in lots of ways when guests are visiting - quietly, or they take walks to argue, or they realize they are going to blow and step out to cool off, or they ask the visitors to leave for a bit. There are options to fight - your spouse intentionally selected none of these.
If someone throws this level of shitty shitty shit fit in public, in front of your parents, without even TRYING to quiet down or go somewhere else or otherwise be nice or save the relationship? That's a really bad sign, right there. Also that spouse doesn't sound interested so far in making amends to the parents.
Honestly, this relationship sounds like it's circling the drain. Maybe you shouldn't spend so much energy on trying to make things nice with the parents about someone who screamed and threatened divorce at you and see if you still want to remain in the relationship or not, or if spouse still does. Because if things are going in this direction, making nice with the parents may just not be a factor in the future. Only worry about that if the relationship lasts and improves. Right now you need to figure out if the relationship is going to last or not, that's a higher priority.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:42 AM on March 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
If someone throws this level of shitty shitty shit fit in public, in front of your parents, without even TRYING to quiet down or go somewhere else or otherwise be nice or save the relationship? That's a really bad sign, right there. Also that spouse doesn't sound interested so far in making amends to the parents.
Honestly, this relationship sounds like it's circling the drain. Maybe you shouldn't spend so much energy on trying to make things nice with the parents about someone who screamed and threatened divorce at you and see if you still want to remain in the relationship or not, or if spouse still does. Because if things are going in this direction, making nice with the parents may just not be a factor in the future. Only worry about that if the relationship lasts and improves. Right now you need to figure out if the relationship is going to last or not, that's a higher priority.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:42 AM on March 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
If I were a parent and witnessed that sort of outburst and my child then told me, "no, no, stuff is cool, we're working it out," I'd be concerned that there was some kind of emotional or physical abuse in the mix.
Overall, I agree that this is between your partner and you but pay close attention to voices that ask if anything about your relationship is happy and healthy.
I'd said something that was extremely triggering to them, and they exploded at me
That's not normal or healthy in a married relationship. Any traumas like that should have been talked about well before saying, "I do." What other triggers do they have that you've not been made aware of that could lead to another outburst like this?
I agree that this kind of situation generally doesn't happen out of the blue, so what other things has your partner been sitting on top of and letting fester?
posted by Candleman at 10:28 AM on March 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Overall, I agree that this is between your partner and you but pay close attention to voices that ask if anything about your relationship is happy and healthy.
I'd said something that was extremely triggering to them, and they exploded at me
That's not normal or healthy in a married relationship. Any traumas like that should have been talked about well before saying, "I do." What other triggers do they have that you've not been made aware of that could lead to another outburst like this?
I agree that this kind of situation generally doesn't happen out of the blue, so what other things has your partner been sitting on top of and letting fester?
posted by Candleman at 10:28 AM on March 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'd said something that was extremely triggering to them
My own relationship dissolved because resentments grew over time to a point when they could not be reconciled. Please consider raising this when in couples therapy: not only why you said something triggering, but why you say it is unknown to you that it would be triggering. Along with the length of time to resolution of the dispute, this suggests some larger communication issues beyond the disagreement itself.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:57 AM on March 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
My own relationship dissolved because resentments grew over time to a point when they could not be reconciled. Please consider raising this when in couples therapy: not only why you said something triggering, but why you say it is unknown to you that it would be triggering. Along with the length of time to resolution of the dispute, this suggests some larger communication issues beyond the disagreement itself.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:57 AM on March 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
I feel like two things are getting smooshed together here: your spousal relationship that may be fixable, and your relationship with your parents, which is certifiably dysfunctional in multiple dimensions. There is a saying that a child can't fix their parents, so by this token your energy is better spent on the issue(s) with your spouse.
posted by rhizome at 4:02 PM on March 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 4:02 PM on March 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
While your spouse should be preparing a necessary and heartfelt apology to them*, you can't control what your parents think or how they process what they encountered. You DO get to talk to them and explain what you need right now from them in terms of support, but you can't tell them to pretend they don't know what they know. This may take some time and negotiation to get back to solid ground between you and them, but it sounds like you really need your own team right now and it's worth trying to engage with them on that front.
Keep in mind, nothing has changed yet and their concern should and likely will be ongoing. How and what you choose to communicate to them from here is probably something you should address with your own therapist, which you should obtain if you do not have already.
Couples counseling is not an emergency room for a critically ill relationship, and it is not a place to treat one person's trauma or fix an abuser - and it is not possible to tell at this point which one of those is at the root of this situation. If your partner is not urgently prioritizing obtaining their own individual treatment first in hopes of eventually being capable of dealing with the consequences of their now-under-treatment behavior with you under the supervision of a joint counselor, the incorrect actions are being taken at this time. A good couples counselor should decline, at this point, to see you together. The promise itself is a red flag and worries me on your behalf, and that's why I want to encourage you to not avoid your parents in the wake of this event no matter how awkward; you are in a precarious situation.
(If your partner has a therapist already, they need to talk to them first before engaging in any additional treatment or making promises to you or anyone else that potentially should not be kept at this time.)
*While lot of people put a lot of value on this being a humiliation ritual for everyone involved, I honestly think that today's apology should be asynchronous. Your parents have been traumatized and should not be forced into a confrontation with your spouse until they have re-established some kind of trust via evidence of change and improvement. Your partner has bigger fish to fry right now. Sending a brief written note covering their genuine regret for escalating in an inappropriate way, acknowledging they understand they have damaged the relationship with you and with them, and stating their genuine intent to first deal with the problem and then move on to reparations when it is appropriate and accessible. Your parents shouldn't want that to happen in any other order, no matter how distressed they are, so you should not feel you need to be held hostage to whatever they want for themselves in this moment.
posted by Lyn Never at 4:51 PM on March 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Keep in mind, nothing has changed yet and their concern should and likely will be ongoing. How and what you choose to communicate to them from here is probably something you should address with your own therapist, which you should obtain if you do not have already.
Couples counseling is not an emergency room for a critically ill relationship, and it is not a place to treat one person's trauma or fix an abuser - and it is not possible to tell at this point which one of those is at the root of this situation. If your partner is not urgently prioritizing obtaining their own individual treatment first in hopes of eventually being capable of dealing with the consequences of their now-under-treatment behavior with you under the supervision of a joint counselor, the incorrect actions are being taken at this time. A good couples counselor should decline, at this point, to see you together. The promise itself is a red flag and worries me on your behalf, and that's why I want to encourage you to not avoid your parents in the wake of this event no matter how awkward; you are in a precarious situation.
(If your partner has a therapist already, they need to talk to them first before engaging in any additional treatment or making promises to you or anyone else that potentially should not be kept at this time.)
*While lot of people put a lot of value on this being a humiliation ritual for everyone involved, I honestly think that today's apology should be asynchronous. Your parents have been traumatized and should not be forced into a confrontation with your spouse until they have re-established some kind of trust via evidence of change and improvement. Your partner has bigger fish to fry right now. Sending a brief written note covering their genuine regret for escalating in an inappropriate way, acknowledging they understand they have damaged the relationship with you and with them, and stating their genuine intent to first deal with the problem and then move on to reparations when it is appropriate and accessible. Your parents shouldn't want that to happen in any other order, no matter how distressed they are, so you should not feel you need to be held hostage to whatever they want for themselves in this moment.
posted by Lyn Never at 4:51 PM on March 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm so sorry you're in this situation right now. I think the most beneficial thing right now would be to find someone you trust to discuss this all, be it a professional therapist (just for you!), spiritual counselor (who is neutral about marriage issues) or an old friend. Said friend would be detached from your everyday life, perhaps in a marriage that you admire but also know has had ups and downs, who can be a good listener and offer you more insight than advice. You have lots of good advice here but, not knowing more details, it's basically a well-intentioned (and wise!) projection based on past personal experience. But we are not you!
Would it be possible to take some time away from your spouse AND your parents right now so you can listen more to your own gut and ask yourself what you need right now? It's beautiful that you care so much about these important family members but, when stuck in between two opposing factions, it's less about choosing a side and more about (temporarily) walking away from both groups of people are who insisting you make a choice (and choose them!) Once you choose you, as in what you want and need, everything else can fall into place. I wish you luck and believe that you will find clarity soon!
posted by smorgasbord at 9:41 PM on March 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Would it be possible to take some time away from your spouse AND your parents right now so you can listen more to your own gut and ask yourself what you need right now? It's beautiful that you care so much about these important family members but, when stuck in between two opposing factions, it's less about choosing a side and more about (temporarily) walking away from both groups of people are who insisting you make a choice (and choose them!) Once you choose you, as in what you want and need, everything else can fall into place. I wish you luck and believe that you will find clarity soon!
posted by smorgasbord at 9:41 PM on March 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
A couple of thoughts:
1. I'm concerned by the implication in your post that your spouse has exploded in similar ways before this incident (even if they didn't bring up divorce then). Your post implies that what sets this incident apart and makes it much more serious than usual is that they exploded in front of your parents.
2. I think you should pay close attention to your feelings surrounding your parents here: particularly, your sense that your parents see you like a child again, that your parents have lost respect for you. These aren't random thoughts (like, when I was in your shoes and felt embarrassed for similar reasons, my embarrassment was centered around very different ideas). Your specific thoughts are, imo, revealing and could be instructive if you allow.
- I think you feel like your parents see you as a child right now because you feel like a child right now - you're being quite strongly reminded of childhood memories of similar blow-out arguments between your parents. You're getting a sense-memory of BEING that child watching yourself now just like you watched your parents then. I don't know how they have dealt (or not) with their issues. But I would urge you to pay attention and stay with this sense memory so that you can deal with it yourself.
- You feel your parents have lost respect for you probably because you feel ashamed seeing yourself from this particular lens. I don't know what you thought of your parents back then, or what you think of them now when you look back at your childhood. But again, I urge you to stay with this feeling and try to own it instead of projecting it on your parents. There's really no evidence that they have lost respect for you. But there are a lot of indications that your self respect is deeply damaged right now.
--------------
I was once in your shoes. I used to have a husband who would often explode at me. He had me convinced that he had very good reasons. Like you, I thought it was my responsibility to keep his anger in check. He would tell me that since he couldn't control his temper but I was "naturally calmer", keeping the peace between us was my job. (He even made this sound like it was him taking responsibility and accepting his share of the blame.) When he exploded in public - which only happened maybe twice? three times at most? - I would be absolutely mortified. It was much harder to sweep his behavior under my mental rug and make excuses for him when I was forced to see his actions through the eyes of other people.
Unlike in your case, nobody ever said a word to me or expressed any concern for me. I was much too good at smoothing things over and making it all sound easy breezy oopsie! for other people's benefit. I stayed in the marriage for eleven years, enduring regular explosions and weeks of stonewalling and steadily worsening financial control, social policing, put-downs and name-calling, character assassinations, etc. the whole time. The bad stuff was only about 10% of my marriage, though, and 90% of it was great! Well maybe it was 20%-80%, or more like 40%-60% by the end. He added sexual abuse to his repertoire and that's when I finally left him.
When I left, my friends and family were FLABBERGASTED. Like I said, I had done an excellent job of making everything look fantastic on the outside. For me that was the loneliest and most difficult part of my divorce. I literally had a few friends *arguing* with me for months after my breakup, telling me I was making a mistake. They wouldn't stop until I told them about the abuse - which was shitty and felt like a violation almost because I shouldn't have had to open up about something so raw and tender, something I was barely able to name as abuse yet, to get them to shut up. These people aren't my friends anymore.
I would have killed to have just a couple of loved ones who really knew and understood what I had endured, who had recognized the issue before even I did, and who would have offered to me the gentle support that your parents are now offering you.
Whether or not you leave your spouse is your choice. I know nothing about you or your situation. But I do know that what your parents are offering you right now - a space in which you can be honest, a chance to rest your head in their lap and put down your crazy flailing image-management schtick - that's valuable beyond my capacity to express in words. Please try to take advantage of it, even if you stay in your marriage.
posted by MiraK at 5:48 PM on March 22, 2023
1. I'm concerned by the implication in your post that your spouse has exploded in similar ways before this incident (even if they didn't bring up divorce then). Your post implies that what sets this incident apart and makes it much more serious than usual is that they exploded in front of your parents.
2. I think you should pay close attention to your feelings surrounding your parents here: particularly, your sense that your parents see you like a child again, that your parents have lost respect for you. These aren't random thoughts (like, when I was in your shoes and felt embarrassed for similar reasons, my embarrassment was centered around very different ideas). Your specific thoughts are, imo, revealing and could be instructive if you allow.
- I think you feel like your parents see you as a child right now because you feel like a child right now - you're being quite strongly reminded of childhood memories of similar blow-out arguments between your parents. You're getting a sense-memory of BEING that child watching yourself now just like you watched your parents then. I don't know how they have dealt (or not) with their issues. But I would urge you to pay attention and stay with this sense memory so that you can deal with it yourself.
- You feel your parents have lost respect for you probably because you feel ashamed seeing yourself from this particular lens. I don't know what you thought of your parents back then, or what you think of them now when you look back at your childhood. But again, I urge you to stay with this feeling and try to own it instead of projecting it on your parents. There's really no evidence that they have lost respect for you. But there are a lot of indications that your self respect is deeply damaged right now.
--------------
I was once in your shoes. I used to have a husband who would often explode at me. He had me convinced that he had very good reasons. Like you, I thought it was my responsibility to keep his anger in check. He would tell me that since he couldn't control his temper but I was "naturally calmer", keeping the peace between us was my job. (He even made this sound like it was him taking responsibility and accepting his share of the blame.) When he exploded in public - which only happened maybe twice? three times at most? - I would be absolutely mortified. It was much harder to sweep his behavior under my mental rug and make excuses for him when I was forced to see his actions through the eyes of other people.
Unlike in your case, nobody ever said a word to me or expressed any concern for me. I was much too good at smoothing things over and making it all sound easy breezy oopsie! for other people's benefit. I stayed in the marriage for eleven years, enduring regular explosions and weeks of stonewalling and steadily worsening financial control, social policing, put-downs and name-calling, character assassinations, etc. the whole time. The bad stuff was only about 10% of my marriage, though, and 90% of it was great! Well maybe it was 20%-80%, or more like 40%-60% by the end. He added sexual abuse to his repertoire and that's when I finally left him.
When I left, my friends and family were FLABBERGASTED. Like I said, I had done an excellent job of making everything look fantastic on the outside. For me that was the loneliest and most difficult part of my divorce. I literally had a few friends *arguing* with me for months after my breakup, telling me I was making a mistake. They wouldn't stop until I told them about the abuse - which was shitty and felt like a violation almost because I shouldn't have had to open up about something so raw and tender, something I was barely able to name as abuse yet, to get them to shut up. These people aren't my friends anymore.
I would have killed to have just a couple of loved ones who really knew and understood what I had endured, who had recognized the issue before even I did, and who would have offered to me the gentle support that your parents are now offering you.
Whether or not you leave your spouse is your choice. I know nothing about you or your situation. But I do know that what your parents are offering you right now - a space in which you can be honest, a chance to rest your head in their lap and put down your crazy flailing image-management schtick - that's valuable beyond my capacity to express in words. Please try to take advantage of it, even if you stay in your marriage.
posted by MiraK at 5:48 PM on March 22, 2023
« Older How to deal with malicious exploitation of fair... | Why is the (last legs?) LiPo battery in my device... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
If your spouse wishes to attempt to make amends themselves with your parents, I'd recommend not getting involved and not trying to manage their interactions. Let the chips fall where they will.
The only other thing that you can do if you are sure you want your parents and your spouse to get on with each other eventually, is to vent any frustrations with your spouse elsewhere, either with friends, or a therapist or whatever. But not with your parents. You can also shut down any conversations with your parents about your spouse - you will probably need to enforce this as a boundary but it can be done.
posted by plonkee at 4:26 AM on March 18, 2023 [32 favorites]