Re. of the order of the paragraphs in this website about Erythritol?
March 7, 2023 4:45 PM Subscribe
This is about Erythritol" and it's in this website here.
that I am not familiar with (I chose it because I don't find the part in the 3rd paragraph below in the usual medical websites).
"You’ll commonly find it in products like low-sugar, sugar-free and even no-carb foods, and while it’s generally safe, there are some common erythritol side effects to consider as well. For example, when used in large amounts, erythritol consumption can potentially cause negative reactions like nausea and stomach upset."
"The reason why it doesn’t provide calories or sugar to its consumer is because the body actually can’t break it down! That’s right — studies show that even though erythritol travels through your body, it doesn’t get metabolized."
"Another issue is that it’s often made from GMO cornstarch, and new research published in January 2023 found even more alarming issues. It’s been linked to major cardiovascular risk factors, including stroke, heart attack, blood clotting and even death." (emphasis mine)
Shouldn't the most important info appear first? By the way, do you know other websites where this info can be found?
that I am not familiar with (I chose it because I don't find the part in the 3rd paragraph below in the usual medical websites).
"You’ll commonly find it in products like low-sugar, sugar-free and even no-carb foods, and while it’s generally safe, there are some common erythritol side effects to consider as well. For example, when used in large amounts, erythritol consumption can potentially cause negative reactions like nausea and stomach upset."
"The reason why it doesn’t provide calories or sugar to its consumer is because the body actually can’t break it down! That’s right — studies show that even though erythritol travels through your body, it doesn’t get metabolized."
"Another issue is that it’s often made from GMO cornstarch, and new research published in January 2023 found even more alarming issues. It’s been linked to major cardiovascular risk factors, including stroke, heart attack, blood clotting and even death." (emphasis mine)
Shouldn't the most important info appear first? By the way, do you know other websites where this info can be found?
Best answer: So I think you're complaining about the writing on the website? It's apparently written by a guy, a chiropractor, or his staff, not a journalist. It looks to be an overview of a topic on his "natural health" website, which is promoting his book and schtick.
That article links to this CNN piece, reporting on this article in Nature.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:54 PM on March 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
That article links to this CNN piece, reporting on this article in Nature.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:54 PM on March 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Yeah, I think the thing is that the stroke, heart attack, blood clotting effects were largely unexpected and only came to light *extremely* recently. It's still in the news! Honestly, good on them for getting it up there so quickly, all things considered.
posted by pullayup at 5:29 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by pullayup at 5:29 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: This Twitter thread by a T2 diabetes researcher covers some issues with that paper not addressed in the NYT article. There’s more than what I’ve pasted below, and it has really made me doubt the initial paper.
Firstly, a key pillar of this paper is that there is a strong association between circulating erythritol and major adverse cardiovascular events (MACE).posted by xueexueg at 5:42 PM on March 7, 2023 [12 favorites]
But erythritol is produced in the body via the pentose phosphate pathway (PPP), a process which might be upregulated by oxidative stress.
COUGH COUGH REVERSE CAUSATION COUGH
In fact, AFAIK serum erythritol is somewhat recognised as an early, general marker of cardiometabolic dysfunction.
Despite the subterranean level of evidence this initial discovery cohort provided, they then repeat it two more times, without even attempting to control for or assess exposure of endogenous vs exogenous erythritol.
Response by poster: Thanks Winnie the Proust and bluedaisy.
bluedaisy, "So I think you're complaining about the writing on the website?"
At least the article is addressing it. When I'm reading or listeneing to someone, if the first thing they address is the minor things, I probably won't finish reading/ listening to maybe to come back at my leisure, or tell someone not to concern themselves about it, which is not good.
Cleveland Clinic does address it.
and in the first paragraph.
But I wonder when Mayo and webmd, healthline (those seem to come up whenever I search for medical info.) will address the heart attack,blood clotting ...?
pullayup and xueexueg I'm reading your posts.
posted by amfgf at 5:48 PM on March 7, 2023
bluedaisy, "So I think you're complaining about the writing on the website?"
At least the article is addressing it. When I'm reading or listeneing to someone, if the first thing they address is the minor things, I probably won't finish reading/ listening to maybe to come back at my leisure, or tell someone not to concern themselves about it, which is not good.
Cleveland Clinic does address it.
and in the first paragraph.
But I wonder when Mayo and webmd, healthline (those seem to come up whenever I search for medical info.) will address the heart attack,blood clotting ...?
pullayup and xueexueg I'm reading your posts.
posted by amfgf at 5:48 PM on March 7, 2023
Best answer: Nutrition Made Simple Gil Calvaho is an MD and PhD in nutrition, graduate of CalTech, and really great a breaking down clinical trial information on nutrition into helpful, practical information. In addition to this segment on erythritol, he talks with Dr. Guess mentioned above about the issue and blood glucose monitors. He also provides links to all studies he discusses. I hope you find it helpful.
posted by effluvia at 7:44 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by effluvia at 7:44 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: The incomparable Derek Lowe made a very interesting post about Erythritol yesterday.
He predicts it will be taken off the market.
He also made an earlier post about problems with other sweeteners which is linked in yesterday's post.
posted by jamjam at 9:22 PM on March 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
He predicts it will be taken off the market.
He also made an earlier post about problems with other sweeteners which is linked in yesterday's post.
posted by jamjam at 9:22 PM on March 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I believe side effects are often listed in order of frequency, not severity. That is, the most common ones are listed first, and then it moves through to the less common ones.
This guide, talking about the package inserts for medication, says, "This section lists all the side effects that were reported in people who took this medicine while it was being tested. These effects are usually grouped by the body system affected and perhaps also by how many people reported each one."
posted by lapis at 9:38 PM on March 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
This guide, talking about the package inserts for medication, says, "This section lists all the side effects that were reported in people who took this medicine while it was being tested. These effects are usually grouped by the body system affected and perhaps also by how many people reported each one."
posted by lapis at 9:38 PM on March 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
Best answer: If they’re not a professional writer then I wouldn’t overthink their choice of ordering. Plenty of people make odd or idiosyncratic choices. In this case I suspect the Jan 23 information is a later addition and they didn’t want to rewrite the whole piece so they put it in at the point that seemed easiest to bridge from.
posted by plonkee at 11:48 PM on March 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by plonkee at 11:48 PM on March 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
Best answer: From most reported / researched to least maybe? If the author hasn't been able to audit these claims in a host of other publications as the info is emerging?
posted by eastboundanddown at 3:23 AM on March 8, 2023
posted by eastboundanddown at 3:23 AM on March 8, 2023
Best answer: Oh upon posting i see lapis has nailed it with their response. That's exactly it.
posted by eastboundanddown at 3:25 AM on March 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by eastboundanddown at 3:25 AM on March 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: What your brain is hankering after, is the inverted pyramid article structure, which is drummed into news writers. It's where you put the most important thing first, and sentence by sentence reduce in importance, until the end of the story is just background for people who are particularly interested and still reading at that stage (previous comment where I discussed the reasons for that.)
Although we're all used to reading it, not everybody is aware of it as a writing style so people who aren't trained in news writing will sometimes take more of an essay style, where you 'start at the beginning' with general information to put people in the picture and give them a broad background, and build up to a dramatic climax/more specific information/conclusion later on. That's presumably what this writer has done - or at least, has used some structure other than inverted pyramid, which is feeling awkward to your brain that's used to reading news stories.
posted by penguin pie at 5:36 AM on March 8, 2023 [5 favorites]
Although we're all used to reading it, not everybody is aware of it as a writing style so people who aren't trained in news writing will sometimes take more of an essay style, where you 'start at the beginning' with general information to put people in the picture and give them a broad background, and build up to a dramatic climax/more specific information/conclusion later on. That's presumably what this writer has done - or at least, has used some structure other than inverted pyramid, which is feeling awkward to your brain that's used to reading news stories.
posted by penguin pie at 5:36 AM on March 8, 2023 [5 favorites]
Best answer: For whatever it is worth, the Brain Docs (Drs. Dean and Ayesha Sherzai at Loma Linda U.) don't love the paper either, just FYI.
posted by oflinkey at 7:29 AM on March 9, 2023
posted by oflinkey at 7:29 AM on March 9, 2023
Best answer: Coming in to say yep, lapis nailed it. In my copy of a reference guide for medication and nutrition interactions, effects are listed with specific highlights/underlines/bolds to indicate higher levels of frequency AND they're listed in order of most common to least common.
posted by OhHaieThere at 9:55 AM on March 9, 2023
posted by OhHaieThere at 9:55 AM on March 9, 2023
Best answer: Okay, I think what's going on with that website: this page on erythritol already existed for a few years, and then, with new research, they added a hasty update. Via the wayback machine, here's the page a few months ago.
The research is brand new; it was just published. That web page is a few years old, and it's not really a good current source of analysis of the new research.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:08 PM on March 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
The research is brand new; it was just published. That web page is a few years old, and it's not really a good current source of analysis of the new research.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:08 PM on March 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you.
By the way the article I linked in my OP is from March 01/2023
I guess I am very much for the style that penguin pie posted the link about. Or should indicate in which order the side effects are listed. Like "Here are ...from the most common to the least common", or "from most serious to least serious". Not everyone has the time to read whole articles, and writers news outlets etc. know that.
How about making the most serious things in bold, since of course the minor items are not comparable to heart attack etc.
posted by amfgf at 1:43 PM on March 10, 2023
By the way the article I linked in my OP is from March 01/2023
I guess I am very much for the style that penguin pie posted the link about. Or should indicate in which order the side effects are listed. Like "Here are ...from the most common to the least common", or "from most serious to least serious". Not everyone has the time to read whole articles, and writers news outlets etc. know that.
How about making the most serious things in bold, since of course the minor items are not comparable to heart attack etc.
posted by amfgf at 1:43 PM on March 10, 2023
Response by poster: This is the link by penguin pie above.
https://www.nngroup.com/articles/inverted-pyramid/
posted by amfgf at 1:51 PM on March 10, 2023
https://www.nngroup.com/articles/inverted-pyramid/
posted by amfgf at 1:51 PM on March 10, 2023
Response by poster: Thanks all again. I just gave everyone "best answer", all are valuable to me.
posted by amfgf at 2:09 PM on April 13, 2023
posted by amfgf at 2:09 PM on April 13, 2023
This thread is closed to new comments.
(I looked into erythritol about six months ago and found that it often causes diarrhea and other side effects when people use it a lot, so I got less excited. It's widely discussed in various low-sugar communities.)
posted by Winnie the Proust at 4:51 PM on March 7, 2023 [3 favorites]