I accidentally set my 14 yr old up for an engineering internship. HELP.
February 13, 2023 10:43 AM Subscribe
What does a dog do with the caught car?
Background: I have a 14 yr old kid who is way into computers and coding, completely self-taught, knows enough to regularly scare me with the sheer vertigo of "holy shit how am I supposed to guide and mentor my child if the child is doing things I have no comprehension of?" This same kid got into some mild trouble at school in November by exploiting an unsecured directory to rickroll the entire school district.
Anyway, I was in a 1:1 meeting with my boss on Friday afternoon, and Kid's latest exploits were on my mind (nothing hinky this time, just a phenomenal video essay Kid created on their own explaining NEAT algorithms on YouTube). Boss and I were just chit chatting at the end of it when he said, "Anything else you needed to talk about?" and I blurted out, "Not unless we can find a way to get my kid an internship with the engineering team, LOL." Context: this is an AI company I work for, the engineering team works on the same things my kid is so interested in.
So help me, my boss took my half-joking comment super seriously and immediately set up a meeting for me with two C-suite guys: the head of our team and the head of the engineering team. What the actual fuck, you guys. Kid won't be part of this meeting. It's just a discussion with me to see what I am proposing.
My kid is crowing and over the moon, and immediately sent me their updated github portfolio with all their projects in it. Kid's dad is impressed and enthusiastically for it (but he is of absolutely no help to me re: solving my Ask.) But, look, my kid is fucking FOURTEEN - will just have turned 15 in the summer. (My boss and whole company are well aware of my kid's age.) I am not even personally sure that an internship at this age is a good idea. What does an idiot 14 yr old even do in such a role? What do they get out of it?
I can trust Kid to be diligent and hardworking - actually that's exactly my main concern, my child will be consumed by work if I allow it. Last summer, Kid had a $5/hour job for a week, helping my friend clear out her yard. Kid would apparently work nonstop until forced to take breaks by my friend, and would pause the timer before going to the bathroom. *facepalm* I can only imagine what Kid's attitude will be towards work that doesn't involve the dreaded outdoors but rather the very subject Kid is so passionate about.
I just... I want to be sure this is an appropriate age for such an internship? And secondarily I need some way to assure myself that my work colleagues have appropriate expectations? Also , I want to make sure that it's not more than 4 weeks and that Kid has time for at least part of the usual slate of summer activities like camping and whatnot.
But how am I to say all this to the big bosses who are going to show up at the meeting tomorrow? I see this as, like, a huge personal favor that my workplace is willing to do for me, and so how am I supposed to set limits on their generosity? I feel tongue-tied already.
Does anybody have ideas on how to navigate this and what to say, because I am overwhelmed just thinking about it. I really do not want to be a Tiger Parent but it seems like I'm acting like one? ARGH. Why is parenting so hard even when great things are happening.
Background: I have a 14 yr old kid who is way into computers and coding, completely self-taught, knows enough to regularly scare me with the sheer vertigo of "holy shit how am I supposed to guide and mentor my child if the child is doing things I have no comprehension of?" This same kid got into some mild trouble at school in November by exploiting an unsecured directory to rickroll the entire school district.
Anyway, I was in a 1:1 meeting with my boss on Friday afternoon, and Kid's latest exploits were on my mind (nothing hinky this time, just a phenomenal video essay Kid created on their own explaining NEAT algorithms on YouTube). Boss and I were just chit chatting at the end of it when he said, "Anything else you needed to talk about?" and I blurted out, "Not unless we can find a way to get my kid an internship with the engineering team, LOL." Context: this is an AI company I work for, the engineering team works on the same things my kid is so interested in.
So help me, my boss took my half-joking comment super seriously and immediately set up a meeting for me with two C-suite guys: the head of our team and the head of the engineering team. What the actual fuck, you guys. Kid won't be part of this meeting. It's just a discussion with me to see what I am proposing.
My kid is crowing and over the moon, and immediately sent me their updated github portfolio with all their projects in it. Kid's dad is impressed and enthusiastically for it (but he is of absolutely no help to me re: solving my Ask.) But, look, my kid is fucking FOURTEEN - will just have turned 15 in the summer. (My boss and whole company are well aware of my kid's age.) I am not even personally sure that an internship at this age is a good idea. What does an idiot 14 yr old even do in such a role? What do they get out of it?
I can trust Kid to be diligent and hardworking - actually that's exactly my main concern, my child will be consumed by work if I allow it. Last summer, Kid had a $5/hour job for a week, helping my friend clear out her yard. Kid would apparently work nonstop until forced to take breaks by my friend, and would pause the timer before going to the bathroom. *facepalm* I can only imagine what Kid's attitude will be towards work that doesn't involve the dreaded outdoors but rather the very subject Kid is so passionate about.
I just... I want to be sure this is an appropriate age for such an internship? And secondarily I need some way to assure myself that my work colleagues have appropriate expectations? Also , I want to make sure that it's not more than 4 weeks and that Kid has time for at least part of the usual slate of summer activities like camping and whatnot.
But how am I to say all this to the big bosses who are going to show up at the meeting tomorrow? I see this as, like, a huge personal favor that my workplace is willing to do for me, and so how am I supposed to set limits on their generosity? I feel tongue-tied already.
Does anybody have ideas on how to navigate this and what to say, because I am overwhelmed just thinking about it. I really do not want to be a Tiger Parent but it seems like I'm acting like one? ARGH. Why is parenting so hard even when great things are happening.
Best answer: This sounds like an awesome opportunity for your kid, who also sounds like a pretty awesome kid! I do see why you're worried it might become too consuming, or be too much for him though.
However, that in itself is a great opportunity. If you limit it to 4 weeks (which I agree is smart) then even if your son gets a bit carried away, at least they physically cannot spend all their summer doing this. You could also encourage/enforce leaving work at work, and ask your colleagues specifically to provide guidance around learning office norms like whether you're on the clock when you run to the bathroom or get a coffee.
I did a lot of work experience as a teen and young adult, and it was enormously helpful when I came to have my first office job. The best opportunities were those where I had a specific thing to do within that time, but also shadowed someone when they attended meetings or did a particularly interesting experiment (I was in a lab several times). I hope this all works out, it sounds like a great summer plan.
posted by In Your Shell Like at 10:52 AM on February 13, 2023 [26 favorites]
However, that in itself is a great opportunity. If you limit it to 4 weeks (which I agree is smart) then even if your son gets a bit carried away, at least they physically cannot spend all their summer doing this. You could also encourage/enforce leaving work at work, and ask your colleagues specifically to provide guidance around learning office norms like whether you're on the clock when you run to the bathroom or get a coffee.
I did a lot of work experience as a teen and young adult, and it was enormously helpful when I came to have my first office job. The best opportunities were those where I had a specific thing to do within that time, but also shadowed someone when they attended meetings or did a particularly interesting experiment (I was in a lab several times). I hope this all works out, it sounds like a great summer plan.
posted by In Your Shell Like at 10:52 AM on February 13, 2023 [26 favorites]
Best answer: 1. You set the hours that Kid is available and communicate that to the engineering team.
2. They should then interview Kid and get a sense for his skills and personality.
3. They propose to you and Kid a list of projects and tasks that they could use him for.
4. You privately discuss with Kid to see if it will be a good learning experience or not.
5. Tweak, accept, or decline offer.
posted by xo at 10:55 AM on February 13, 2023 [18 favorites]
2. They should then interview Kid and get a sense for his skills and personality.
3. They propose to you and Kid a list of projects and tasks that they could use him for.
4. You privately discuss with Kid to see if it will be a good learning experience or not.
5. Tweak, accept, or decline offer.
posted by xo at 10:55 AM on February 13, 2023 [18 favorites]
Yeah, unless I'm missing something, your problem will be solved by the second interview, where your kid meets the engineering managers. They'll either have something for him to do, or they won't--not your problem to solve. Even if they take him on as a personal favor to you, it will be a giant plus plus plus for your son's future life.
Of course, if you think after the next interview that he's going to be badly treated somehow, your decision may change.
I had a couple of summer jobs at an engineering company. I'm pretty sure I was hired as a favor and that it would have been better for the company if my work been done by career-path employees. I also didn't get much training. But for me it was a valuable introduction to engineering careers.
posted by JimN2TAW at 10:57 AM on February 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
Of course, if you think after the next interview that he's going to be badly treated somehow, your decision may change.
I had a couple of summer jobs at an engineering company. I'm pretty sure I was hired as a favor and that it would have been better for the company if my work been done by career-path employees. I also didn't get much training. But for me it was a valuable introduction to engineering careers.
posted by JimN2TAW at 10:57 AM on February 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
"Thanks for meeting with me. To cut to the chase, and in the interest of everyone's time, I'm exploring the idea of a four week internship or stipend-based job for my 14 year old this summer for the weeks of X - X. Her/their/his primary interests are a, b, c, and I can imagine them doing x, y, and z. Also, because it's their first work experience, I'd like them to work with someone who can give them clear expectations and check points."
--- [response ] ---
That sounds like it might work? Great. Ok, what other details do you need and what are next steps?
- or-
Ah, that's not an option at this time? Ok, thanks for meeting with me to discuss it.
Check the legal requirements of your state before the meeting. In my state, minors need sign-off from a parent and a doctor, and there are limits on work times and length.
Let kiddo handle the rest of it as they are able. Sounds like a great opportunity to learn no matter what they end up doing.
posted by cocoagirl at 10:59 AM on February 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
--- [response ] ---
That sounds like it might work? Great. Ok, what other details do you need and what are next steps?
- or-
Ah, that's not an option at this time? Ok, thanks for meeting with me to discuss it.
Check the legal requirements of your state before the meeting. In my state, minors need sign-off from a parent and a doctor, and there are limits on work times and length.
Let kiddo handle the rest of it as they are able. Sounds like a great opportunity to learn no matter what they end up doing.
posted by cocoagirl at 10:59 AM on February 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
Best answer: So I can't speak to engineering internships, but I have 14 year olds that work for/with me in both volunteer and paid capacities. Some kids are just great at it and it sounds like yours will thrive.
On preview I was going to say the same as some comments above but:
- definitely have them interview him
- you can't control their expectations - just be clear on your child's age etc.
- limit the hours - 4 weeks is good, decide if 9-5 works.
- I would gently let the C-people know that your son will require training on privacy rules and data privacy rules, given the rickrolling and also because people who work mostly with post-grads have a tendency to think things are obvious that are not to 14 year olds.
- coach your child a bit on office norms before the internship
- take in any feedback about your child breezily so it doesn't impact on your relationships, even if you find it wrong/annoying
posted by warriorqueen at 11:01 AM on February 13, 2023 [21 favorites]
On preview I was going to say the same as some comments above but:
- definitely have them interview him
- you can't control their expectations - just be clear on your child's age etc.
- limit the hours - 4 weeks is good, decide if 9-5 works.
- I would gently let the C-people know that your son will require training on privacy rules and data privacy rules, given the rickrolling and also because people who work mostly with post-grads have a tendency to think things are obvious that are not to 14 year olds.
- coach your child a bit on office norms before the internship
- take in any feedback about your child breezily so it doesn't impact on your relationships, even if you find it wrong/annoying
posted by warriorqueen at 11:01 AM on February 13, 2023 [21 favorites]
I think the number one first thing to do is to ask your work colleagues what they're expecting and what they would realistically be able to provide to your son in terms of support and feedback. Like, on my team, we have enough trouble finding time to review actual production code written by our actual colleagues.
Does your kid write code in the language(s) that the team(s) use?
Is there someone who is genuinely enthusiastic about having your kid on the team?
Does the team regularly hire interns? What do interns usually do, and to what extent can that be modified for a 4-week project?
Honestly I would be pretty annoyed if I were asked to review the github portfolio of a 14-year-old, much less come up with a project for him or devote chunks of my summer work time (when I could be slacking off and going for a hike!) to teaching him office norms. But that's me!
posted by mskyle at 11:01 AM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Does your kid write code in the language(s) that the team(s) use?
Is there someone who is genuinely enthusiastic about having your kid on the team?
Does the team regularly hire interns? What do interns usually do, and to what extent can that be modified for a 4-week project?
Honestly I would be pretty annoyed if I were asked to review the github portfolio of a 14-year-old, much less come up with a project for him or devote chunks of my summer work time (when I could be slacking off and going for a hike!) to teaching him office norms. But that's me!
posted by mskyle at 11:01 AM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: It sounds to me that while your colleagues might be doing this as a favor to you they are mostly doing it because they get a kick out of a kid who is so interested in their field and want to help them. This is great! Of course you should set reasonable limits and expectations but every one of your colleagues was once a 14-year-old kid. Many of them were likely a lot like your kid. They have some idea of what they are getting into.
posted by mcduff at 11:03 AM on February 13, 2023 [27 favorites]
posted by mcduff at 11:03 AM on February 13, 2023 [27 favorites]
Best answer: As a software engineer who has both been an Intern and worked with interns, I'd ask for a couple things.
1) that the engineering team come up with a small project that your kid can complete in the short amount of time. No matter what work kiddo does though, even being exposed to the systems and processes (like how code goes from development to testing to production) is invaluable.
2) that the project is not completely silo-ed so kiddo is able to work with others.
3)that kiddo is assigned a dedicated mentor who can devote time every day to helping your kiddo (and preferably WANTS to have a mentee).
4) ideally someone (mentor or someone else) will pair program with kiddo and hour or so a day. It's an excellent way to learn and grow skills. With kiddo both driving and navigating.
Also I think this is a great opportunity!!
posted by CleverClover at 11:03 AM on February 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
1) that the engineering team come up with a small project that your kid can complete in the short amount of time. No matter what work kiddo does though, even being exposed to the systems and processes (like how code goes from development to testing to production) is invaluable.
2) that the project is not completely silo-ed so kiddo is able to work with others.
3)that kiddo is assigned a dedicated mentor who can devote time every day to helping your kiddo (and preferably WANTS to have a mentee).
4) ideally someone (mentor or someone else) will pair program with kiddo and hour or so a day. It's an excellent way to learn and grow skills. With kiddo both driving and navigating.
Also I think this is a great opportunity!!
posted by CleverClover at 11:03 AM on February 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
Best answer: So as not to abuse the edit window - I'm just picking up on your language that this may seem like an ammmmaaaaaaaaazing opportunity and that you are somehow indebted and that kiddo must present a perfect facade for this experience. Given what workplaces are like these days, make sure your kiddo knows that internships are intended to be mutually beneficial and that kiddo does not have to put up with bad behavior from anyone simply because this is "an opportunity." Some of your concerns coming through may be because this would be at your workplace and it's ok to decide that's too close for comfort for whatever reason.
posted by cocoagirl at 11:04 AM on February 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by cocoagirl at 11:04 AM on February 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
Best answer: (OP did not gender their child, so maybe follow their lead.)
posted by wintersweet at 11:04 AM on February 13, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by wintersweet at 11:04 AM on February 13, 2023 [13 favorites]
Yes. So much what cocoagirl says. The internship should not be cheap labor for company, it should he learning and growth opportunity for kiddo. Everyone (especially kiddo) should be aware of that.
posted by CleverClover at 11:06 AM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by CleverClover at 11:06 AM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Different time and different situation, but I had an internship at a dotcom as a feckless 16-year-old in 2000 and had a great experience that taught me concrete skills and, maybe more important, gave me an idea of what adult workplaces look like and how to comport myself in them. My manager was a friend of my mom's and fully aware of my (minimal) experience, and tailored my assignments to things she thought I might be capable of (I ended up teaching myself enough ColdFusion to help build an internal help desk tool) and could work through in the time we had available. While most of my intern cohort was at least in undergrad at the time and there were some "what is this goth child who's decidedly not a programming prodigy doing here?" vibes, everyone I interacted with was helpful and professional. All of which is just to give you an idea of what your kid might get out of the experience!
posted by quatsch at 11:15 AM on February 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by quatsch at 11:15 AM on February 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Yeah, sorry about the gendering!
posted by warriorqueen at 11:17 AM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by warriorqueen at 11:17 AM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also unlike mskyle, I would LOVE to find a 4 week project and review kiddos code. I'm a senior and I'm swamped but I can prioritize an interns growth over (almost) everything else. Hence point 3 above. Make sure kiddos mentor is excited about mentoring.
Not saying mskyle is wrong or bad. Mskyle knows their own workload and tolerance for things that dont directly add to productivity. That's awesome. Just saying that's why it's important to have the right mentor.
posted by CleverClover at 11:17 AM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Not saying mskyle is wrong or bad. Mskyle knows their own workload and tolerance for things that dont directly add to productivity. That's awesome. Just saying that's why it's important to have the right mentor.
posted by CleverClover at 11:17 AM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Came in to suggest Kid have a mentor, which CleverClover mentioned in their point 3. Someone who can teach them about workplace norms and how to navigate workplace politics and etiquette. OP, maybe you could debrief with them at home each day and make sure they're not being exploited/know their rights.
Congrats to you, kid and workplace. Seems like it will be a great experience for all parties.
posted by foxjacket at 11:23 AM on February 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Congrats to you, kid and workplace. Seems like it will be a great experience for all parties.
posted by foxjacket at 11:23 AM on February 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
As a former 'gifted' kid and a parent: your kid may like the idea of it, but make sure they understand that they're going to be the small fish in the big pond and they need to have the maturity to accept this. As you've pointed out, they're accustomed to being the "smartest person in the room" in many ways and places, and they sound like they're really good at the knowledge they currently have -- however when they get into the room with the capital-e Engineers, they're going to have to be proud but humble about the information they currently know, but be prepared to learn more, things they've probably never heard of or did and didn't understand so in their self-learning skipped over it. Internships need to be about learning, they need to understand they're not being brought in to already be an expert. This includes understanding they're possibly going to fail, in front of people who they are looking up to. This can be stressful to someone young and just learning how to handle adult things.
But this shouldn't be a discouragement -- and, really, it sounds like it's a really low risk situation. If they are too young and screw it up? So what, they're 14. If they do really really good, then great! Now they're on a start to bigger and better things. Learning how to handle adult things in adult ways is probably more important for them to learn than the technical stuff and this sounds like a perfect way to dip their toes in the shallow end.
I think you already have a good handle on your expectations from your employer -- you know how you want it to go, so stick to your four weeks and keeping expectations reasonable, but in many ways your kid is the one who's going to drive how the internship goes, you can only help.
posted by AzraelBrown at 11:23 AM on February 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
But this shouldn't be a discouragement -- and, really, it sounds like it's a really low risk situation. If they are too young and screw it up? So what, they're 14. If they do really really good, then great! Now they're on a start to bigger and better things. Learning how to handle adult things in adult ways is probably more important for them to learn than the technical stuff and this sounds like a perfect way to dip their toes in the shallow end.
I think you already have a good handle on your expectations from your employer -- you know how you want it to go, so stick to your four weeks and keeping expectations reasonable, but in many ways your kid is the one who's going to drive how the internship goes, you can only help.
posted by AzraelBrown at 11:23 AM on February 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
Best answer: On the emotional side for you I'd explore this moment:
But how am I to say all this to the big bosses who are going to show up at the meeting tomorrow? I see this as, like, a huge personal favor that my workplace is willing to do for me, and so how am I supposed to set limits on their generosity? I feel tongue-tied already.
From your telling you off-handedly, casually, mentioned the idea of your kid having an internship and your boss jumped at it. This is _not_ the action of someone doing a "huge personal favor", it's the dynamic of someone who really wants to get involved and help out. If you've talked about your kid before at work, or if your boss has met them, then this makes this even more about the boss doing what they want to do and NOT, again, a "huge personal favor".
I totally get that this can feel super vulnerable and like you owe a huge debt but from what you've written that's not what's going on. This reads to me like community work, all of us looking out for each other and for the kids, and it's not a "favor", it's just how we care for each other.
As others have said, your role here is setting boundaries that are going to be good for your kid – that's not "limits on their generosity" that's "negotiating a situation that's beneficial to all parties". Nobody wants your kid to be overwhelmed by the arrangement! You're doing everybody a favor if you show up and advocate for what you think is best for your kid.
posted by wemayfreeze at 11:28 AM on February 13, 2023 [11 favorites]
But how am I to say all this to the big bosses who are going to show up at the meeting tomorrow? I see this as, like, a huge personal favor that my workplace is willing to do for me, and so how am I supposed to set limits on their generosity? I feel tongue-tied already.
From your telling you off-handedly, casually, mentioned the idea of your kid having an internship and your boss jumped at it. This is _not_ the action of someone doing a "huge personal favor", it's the dynamic of someone who really wants to get involved and help out. If you've talked about your kid before at work, or if your boss has met them, then this makes this even more about the boss doing what they want to do and NOT, again, a "huge personal favor".
I totally get that this can feel super vulnerable and like you owe a huge debt but from what you've written that's not what's going on. This reads to me like community work, all of us looking out for each other and for the kids, and it's not a "favor", it's just how we care for each other.
As others have said, your role here is setting boundaries that are going to be good for your kid – that's not "limits on their generosity" that's "negotiating a situation that's beneficial to all parties". Nobody wants your kid to be overwhelmed by the arrangement! You're doing everybody a favor if you show up and advocate for what you think is best for your kid.
posted by wemayfreeze at 11:28 AM on February 13, 2023 [11 favorites]
Yeah, definitely not saying my way is the only way! I spend a lot of time working with our coops and junior engineers and it's often an enjoyable part of my work but it's still capital-W Work for me, and taking on more of it for a nepo hire (even a very talented one) would bother me. So try to make sure the team Kid would be working with isn't all grumps like me, or at least set expectations with your kid that that might be the case!
And sorry about the gendering!
posted by mskyle at 11:31 AM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
And sorry about the gendering!
posted by mskyle at 11:31 AM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
From someone who has mentored interns, and been one themselves. I have zero expectations of an intern's capacity to do useful work. Internships, for me are a way to help younger people develop into better engineers in the future, and I think most other people view it this way too.
posted by Dr. Twist at 11:32 AM on February 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Dr. Twist at 11:32 AM on February 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you! The answers have been very helpful so far. My brain had kind of short circuited because I have no experience with internships (or to be more precise, no idea how parents handle internships for their children). I got stuck feeling obligated to my company and mightily uncomfortable that they're doing me a huge favor, yikes, how does one handle personal favors from employers?! I think my feelings stem from the fact that I'm an immigrant and not really accustomed to western work cultures deep down - I grew up surrounded by very different, more ... obsequious? attitudes towards employers, and that shit apparently goes bone deep!
So it's very useful for me to hear things like yeah, obviously they're going to have to figure out a small project that my kid can do, and yeah, obviously it's squarely my role (whose else?!) to set boundaries and expectations of when my kid is available to do the internship. You all are reframing this for me as "yeah just another human to human interaction, proceed as normal". A bit like code switching. Thank you!
posted by MiraK at 11:55 AM on February 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
So it's very useful for me to hear things like yeah, obviously they're going to have to figure out a small project that my kid can do, and yeah, obviously it's squarely my role (whose else?!) to set boundaries and expectations of when my kid is available to do the internship. You all are reframing this for me as "yeah just another human to human interaction, proceed as normal". A bit like code switching. Thank you!
posted by MiraK at 11:55 AM on February 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
When I was a 14-15 year old kid excited about computers and messing with them at school because I was bored and curious, I would have been very happy for the adults around me to respond with an opportunity to learn something. (I got permanently banned from the school computers and sent to detention.)
I wish I had been assigned to shadow people and do simple tasks to learn how to be a constructive contributor to a team, like: writing down key points from meetings in a Google Doc; taking the required company trainings on various kinds of compliance and discussing them with my mentor; filling out my time card in a responsible fashion; learning about ergonomics for desk work (via a selected list of YouTube videos or whatever) and applying what I learned to my work station; learning to review a list of bug reports, categorize them in a spreadsheet, and identify potential duplicate items; prepare a brief presentation to my mentor about an idea that I have related to a project; etc. I don't think anyone should have expected me to contribute toward actual production work.
posted by dreamyshade at 11:55 AM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
I wish I had been assigned to shadow people and do simple tasks to learn how to be a constructive contributor to a team, like: writing down key points from meetings in a Google Doc; taking the required company trainings on various kinds of compliance and discussing them with my mentor; filling out my time card in a responsible fashion; learning about ergonomics for desk work (via a selected list of YouTube videos or whatever) and applying what I learned to my work station; learning to review a list of bug reports, categorize them in a spreadsheet, and identify potential duplicate items; prepare a brief presentation to my mentor about an idea that I have related to a project; etc. I don't think anyone should have expected me to contribute toward actual production work.
posted by dreamyshade at 11:55 AM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I work in .edu IT, and we have student workers; one of my sons is a comp.sci. student elsewhere and had a paid internship last summer.
With that context:
- Find out from HR about whether Kid can even be paid, that young.
- As someone said, have your colleagues go into the meeting with Kid already having a couple of possible projects in mind.
- Make sure the adults involved want to be doing this. My son's internship was overseen by someone who sounds like they weren't excited to handle students, and I think it would have gone better with more-enthusiastic mentoring.
- Make sure there is space & equipment ready for Kid to use, and specific instructions for any tasks that they are set to do. (S)he might be clever and a quick learner, but every environment is different and (s)he probably lacks the specific skills of an adult worker.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:16 PM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
With that context:
- Find out from HR about whether Kid can even be paid, that young.
- As someone said, have your colleagues go into the meeting with Kid already having a couple of possible projects in mind.
- Make sure the adults involved want to be doing this. My son's internship was overseen by someone who sounds like they weren't excited to handle students, and I think it would have gone better with more-enthusiastic mentoring.
- Make sure there is space & equipment ready for Kid to use, and specific instructions for any tasks that they are set to do. (S)he might be clever and a quick learner, but every environment is different and (s)he probably lacks the specific skills of an adult worker.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:16 PM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
You are well positioned, at this moment, to set expectations that your kid will do some kind of _other_ activity in addition to the internship, like an outdoor activity or anything away from screens.
I'd also potentially try to hook the kid up with an ethics class or somebody who's very pro-ethics at your company. Just making tech without understanding how it impacts the larger world is kind of a problem.
posted by amtho at 12:30 PM on February 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'd also potentially try to hook the kid up with an ethics class or somebody who's very pro-ethics at your company. Just making tech without understanding how it impacts the larger world is kind of a problem.
posted by amtho at 12:30 PM on February 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Best answer: On the emotional side, I'm getting two things from your question:
"I'm so freaking proud of Kid!" (As well you should be)
and
"Help! Kid is growing up so fast, I'm so out of my depth"
And, like, that's parenthood, isn't it? This flailing around. Anyway, I just wanted to say, I'm happy for you, you sound like a great parent and I hope you get to enjoy Kid's first foray into internship.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:18 PM on February 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
"I'm so freaking proud of Kid!" (As well you should be)
and
"Help! Kid is growing up so fast, I'm so out of my depth"
And, like, that's parenthood, isn't it? This flailing around. Anyway, I just wanted to say, I'm happy for you, you sound like a great parent and I hope you get to enjoy Kid's first foray into internship.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:18 PM on February 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
Seems like a great opportunity! Tech internships are usually 12 weeks. Four weeks seems to short to accomplish anything meaningful, because the first one or two weeks is usually spent on unproductive ramping-up. But maybe I just don't know your company. /shrug
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 2:02 PM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 2:02 PM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I currently work for a small startup. For various reasons similar to yours we've had a couple of high school kids work with us on various projects. A little older than yours, but still young. We're a super small team, but I think it's mostly worked okay. They've done a bunch of development of stuff with web technologies, some of which are UI in our software.
I think the biggest problem we've had is that there's a gut vibe of "yeah, that works, but it gives me the heebie jeebies even if I can't tell you why, why don't you find a more orthodox way to do that even if it takes you longer" that a few decades, or even a few years, of software development gives you that the kids haven't had yet, so they tend to use tricks and hacks that make their code difficult to maintain. So stand-alone utility type projects are fantastic ("I need a web tool to edit this database thing").
I think all of us who've worked with the kids have varying levels of how we approach our interactions, but I've come to realize that any unsolicited general advice I'm gonna offer is gonna get ignored, any specific technical advice I give is gonna be evaluated with a magnifying glass, and that's okay.
And my experience with internships in general, including when I worked for a very prestigious company and we'd get college kids who thought they'd won the lottery with an internship (and maybe had), is that the intern gets out of it what they put into it. For the most part the people around are primed to be as helpful as possible, but don't particularly know what they can offer. So the best ones all the way around are probably "hey, I'd really like to see how you're solving this problem, can you talk it through with me?", because it both gives me a "talk to the Teddy Bear" situation (describe it out loud, making sure I understand the details) and them a deep dive with the chance to go as deep as they can understand.
This also helps fend off the obvious tendency to not ask questions 'cause they don't wanna feel dumb which can lead to that "digging a hole" feedback loop.
And, yeah, I get the "OMG where did my kid go?", but the company is doing this because they are impressed with you, and everybody remembers being "that kid" and wants to help that kid be the best version of that kid they can possibly be.
posted by straw at 2:03 PM on February 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think the biggest problem we've had is that there's a gut vibe of "yeah, that works, but it gives me the heebie jeebies even if I can't tell you why, why don't you find a more orthodox way to do that even if it takes you longer" that a few decades, or even a few years, of software development gives you that the kids haven't had yet, so they tend to use tricks and hacks that make their code difficult to maintain. So stand-alone utility type projects are fantastic ("I need a web tool to edit this database thing").
I think all of us who've worked with the kids have varying levels of how we approach our interactions, but I've come to realize that any unsolicited general advice I'm gonna offer is gonna get ignored, any specific technical advice I give is gonna be evaluated with a magnifying glass, and that's okay.
And my experience with internships in general, including when I worked for a very prestigious company and we'd get college kids who thought they'd won the lottery with an internship (and maybe had), is that the intern gets out of it what they put into it. For the most part the people around are primed to be as helpful as possible, but don't particularly know what they can offer. So the best ones all the way around are probably "hey, I'd really like to see how you're solving this problem, can you talk it through with me?", because it both gives me a "talk to the Teddy Bear" situation (describe it out loud, making sure I understand the details) and them a deep dive with the chance to go as deep as they can understand.
This also helps fend off the obvious tendency to not ask questions 'cause they don't wanna feel dumb which can lead to that "digging a hole" feedback loop.
And, yeah, I get the "OMG where did my kid go?", but the company is doing this because they are impressed with you, and everybody remembers being "that kid" and wants to help that kid be the best version of that kid they can possibly be.
posted by straw at 2:03 PM on February 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I know nothing about this topic, I just want to express my admiration and giggles for anyone who rickrolled the entire school district and that people are interested in putting a mind like that to good work.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:32 PM on February 13, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:32 PM on February 13, 2023 [13 favorites]
yeah I'm mostly here to high five your kid for the rickroll!
high five to you too for great parenting, and high five to the folks at the company for hopefully being flexible and open to create a good experience for your kid. Internships are win-win, ideally, in creating pipelines of folks who are great matches for an industry and will thrive there. Hopefully he'll learn something of interest, and make friends.
I've come to believe that having good mentors is the single biggest variable in building strong careers. More than native intelligence, or skill, or the nature of the industry. So good for you and the kid for starting to collect them now.
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:45 PM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
high five to you too for great parenting, and high five to the folks at the company for hopefully being flexible and open to create a good experience for your kid. Internships are win-win, ideally, in creating pipelines of folks who are great matches for an industry and will thrive there. Hopefully he'll learn something of interest, and make friends.
I've come to believe that having good mentors is the single biggest variable in building strong careers. More than native intelligence, or skill, or the nature of the industry. So good for you and the kid for starting to collect them now.
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:45 PM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think you're thinking in the right terms, as far as
1) Watching out for your kid, because this is kind of a big thing for a turning-15-yo
2) Setting time limits per day/week and total time
3) Being supportive and encouraging but also helping your kid to understand that this is Kind Of A Big Deal and do they really want to do this
I used to serve as a community mentor for our high school FIRST robotics team. We had a lot of very smart, very driven kids in that program. One who was aggressively courted by Intel, who basically said "You don't need to worry about college; we want you to come work for us when you graduate high school." Some days, as mentors, despite our relatively skilled backgrounds in various disciplines, we felt like we could hardly keep up with these kids; how are we supposed to mentor them?
But really, mostly what they needed was someone to help focus their enthusiasm, chime in with a "Are you sure that's the best approach to this?" now and then, and a whole lot of herding cats.
Your kid sounds incredibly curious, driven, and eager to vacuum up all the knowledge and experience they can. I think a short-term internship like this could be an incredible experience for them, and either cement a general career path, or be a wake up that "wow, doing this For Real kinda.... sucks" and maybe they move on to become interested in other things. It sounds like you're leaning that way already, but I'd really encourage you and your kid to work together to develop some realistic caps on time engaged in this per day, per week, and in total. They're driven, they're excited, but they're still a kid. I know that during our robotics build season, it's so short and intense and such a whirlwind that the kids wear themselves out.
Whatever the outcome, kudos to your kid for having such curiosity and excitement about learning, and to you, for being such a supportive parent.
posted by xedrik at 4:12 PM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
1) Watching out for your kid, because this is kind of a big thing for a turning-15-yo
2) Setting time limits per day/week and total time
3) Being supportive and encouraging but also helping your kid to understand that this is Kind Of A Big Deal and do they really want to do this
I used to serve as a community mentor for our high school FIRST robotics team. We had a lot of very smart, very driven kids in that program. One who was aggressively courted by Intel, who basically said "You don't need to worry about college; we want you to come work for us when you graduate high school." Some days, as mentors, despite our relatively skilled backgrounds in various disciplines, we felt like we could hardly keep up with these kids; how are we supposed to mentor them?
But really, mostly what they needed was someone to help focus their enthusiasm, chime in with a "Are you sure that's the best approach to this?" now and then, and a whole lot of herding cats.
Your kid sounds incredibly curious, driven, and eager to vacuum up all the knowledge and experience they can. I think a short-term internship like this could be an incredible experience for them, and either cement a general career path, or be a wake up that "wow, doing this For Real kinda.... sucks" and maybe they move on to become interested in other things. It sounds like you're leaning that way already, but I'd really encourage you and your kid to work together to develop some realistic caps on time engaged in this per day, per week, and in total. They're driven, they're excited, but they're still a kid. I know that during our robotics build season, it's so short and intense and such a whirlwind that the kids wear themselves out.
Whatever the outcome, kudos to your kid for having such curiosity and excitement about learning, and to you, for being such a supportive parent.
posted by xedrik at 4:12 PM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I had an engineering internship with Sun Microsystems in the late 90s when I was 16 years old (through my neighbors, not my parents). It was an incredible experience and set me up for a long career in engineering. I'm also an engineering manager at a FAANG with experience in hiring interns. (And a parent, though my kids are much younger.)
First, what everybody else is saying about asking the engineering team to have a project ready is correct. Have them write up a one pager with real work that will benefit the team, but not something that's blocking other critical work (i.e. something that would be okay if your kid doesn't have it done). Ideally this project will have milestones, including stretch milestones they don't expect your kid to achieve. My experience at 16 was that they didn't expect much, so they gave me about two weeks' worth of work for an eight week internship and then scrambled to find more. I spent a lot of time messing around and having fun, which was cool, but it would have been better if they had stretch goals ready to go for me when I needed more work.
Second, ensure that the on-team mentor/manager is ready and willing to mentor a 15-year-old. Your kid might be great at office work, and they might not be. The mentor/manager is going to make a world of difference here. They should be included as a part of the team -- brought along to meetings, have 1:1s with the right stakeholders. Interns on my team are expected to write a retrospective doc that describes the work they did and present it to the team, and I'd encourage this for your kid as well: written and oral communication are a huge part of engineering and building this expectation from the get-go is helpful.
Third, four weeks is a reasonable amount of time, but depending on your development environment, it might take them two weeks to just come up to speed and understand how basic things are doing. Six may give them more time to achieve their goals. This is up to you as a parent, of course, but it might be worth chatting with the engineering team about typical rampup times to confirm.
Finally, this is an excellent opportunity for them to learn some basic money management skills. Set them up with a bank account and an ATM card. Explain their paystub and what each of the line items is.
Enjoy! I loved my first internship at 16. This is such an incredible opportunity for your kid and I'm vicariously extremely excited for you.
posted by kdar at 8:03 PM on February 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
First, what everybody else is saying about asking the engineering team to have a project ready is correct. Have them write up a one pager with real work that will benefit the team, but not something that's blocking other critical work (i.e. something that would be okay if your kid doesn't have it done). Ideally this project will have milestones, including stretch milestones they don't expect your kid to achieve. My experience at 16 was that they didn't expect much, so they gave me about two weeks' worth of work for an eight week internship and then scrambled to find more. I spent a lot of time messing around and having fun, which was cool, but it would have been better if they had stretch goals ready to go for me when I needed more work.
Second, ensure that the on-team mentor/manager is ready and willing to mentor a 15-year-old. Your kid might be great at office work, and they might not be. The mentor/manager is going to make a world of difference here. They should be included as a part of the team -- brought along to meetings, have 1:1s with the right stakeholders. Interns on my team are expected to write a retrospective doc that describes the work they did and present it to the team, and I'd encourage this for your kid as well: written and oral communication are a huge part of engineering and building this expectation from the get-go is helpful.
Third, four weeks is a reasonable amount of time, but depending on your development environment, it might take them two weeks to just come up to speed and understand how basic things are doing. Six may give them more time to achieve their goals. This is up to you as a parent, of course, but it might be worth chatting with the engineering team about typical rampup times to confirm.
Finally, this is an excellent opportunity for them to learn some basic money management skills. Set them up with a bank account and an ATM card. Explain their paystub and what each of the line items is.
Enjoy! I loved my first internship at 16. This is such an incredible opportunity for your kid and I'm vicariously extremely excited for you.
posted by kdar at 8:03 PM on February 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
_Lots_ of good advice above but one thing I did not see addressed needs to be addressed by you with your child:
Security in a business is _serious_ stuff. He should be working on projects, not looking for possible exploits. I'm not saying he _would_ necessarily but as a former 14-year-old sometimes the temptations are hard to resist. Looking for gaps in security might set off "trip wires" he hasn't imagined, but even if it doesn't if he finds openings the proper response is to report them to the security folk. If he can propose a solution even better. I don't know about your firm but a lot of AI companies have government funding which can make it even _more_ serious when someone is messing around.
I'm just posting this because I think they should have a great experience that provides learning in an area they're obviously interested in, and not get themselves into trouble while doing it. Also, I think the rickrolling should be disclosed to your company.
posted by TimHare at 9:38 PM on February 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Security in a business is _serious_ stuff. He should be working on projects, not looking for possible exploits. I'm not saying he _would_ necessarily but as a former 14-year-old sometimes the temptations are hard to resist. Looking for gaps in security might set off "trip wires" he hasn't imagined, but even if it doesn't if he finds openings the proper response is to report them to the security folk. If he can propose a solution even better. I don't know about your firm but a lot of AI companies have government funding which can make it even _more_ serious when someone is messing around.
I'm just posting this because I think they should have a great experience that provides learning in an area they're obviously interested in, and not get themselves into trouble while doing it. Also, I think the rickrolling should be disclosed to your company.
posted by TimHare at 9:38 PM on February 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
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posted by parmanparman at 10:47 AM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]