My cat gets bullied by every foster cat
January 30, 2023 3:09 AM Subscribe
I had my cat Mirana for 2 years, she was my first foster from the street and very likely she was not owned by anyone ever. She was a very shy cat which was too frozen from fear to even defend herself.
I struggled a lot to get her to eat, managed it only after 3 days of trying to spoon feed her after which she started trusting me. She started being more confident and eating normally, however she was still hiding for a long time when I was not home and would appear only when I was there to ask for some cuddles. Eventually we would start sleeping together every night and she is very attached to me; still shy around strangers or even people she knows but I am her person.
After almost a year I got a puppy and started fostering another abandoned cat, but keeping them strictly separated and introducing them slowly. She is fine with dog except an occasional gentle slap when he is being too annoying, she was never afraid. With cat...she never got along with because the cat was bullying her. The cat got a new home and I had a temporary flatmate, his cat was very dominant and bullying her as well. After they were gone, my next foster was another female cat and she was more indifferent and they coexisted rather nicely, she was a very wholesome cat, I kept her and named her Aurora. But was still chasing her playfully sometime and not getting the clear hissing/defensive position to leave her alone after every single time she tried the chase. They eventually got along to the point that they ignore each other but every day there is a chase attempt and Mirana's hissing. I notice Mirana is nowadays confident enough to play in front of the Aurora, sleeping close to each other is no problem, they even eat from the same bowl sometimes and in general they are ok with each other except when Aurora gets too energetic. The whole ordeal stops after hissing immediately but it still bothers me. Particularly since once during these play/run attempts Mirana fell from 2m height.
She started getting more and more attached to me and they often sleep next to me in bed, one from each side, purring together. It's wonderful.
I had two more fosters in a separate room in a year to come, both of which expressed similar chasing interest in chasing Mirana. One of them got home as the only cat as he hated both of my cats, another one is still there but shows no interest towards Aurora.
I keep every foster cat separated in a room full of enrichment, toys, scrathing posts, comfy surfaces; I give them pets and playtime during the day. But I don't let them roam freely until I stop seeing aggression/defensiveness (hissing, growling) of them and my cats as well. Also, I wait at least 6 weeks after spaying/neutering to let them roam. So far I only let Aurora roam free full time.
I have tried everything, from hormonal spray to reintroduction, yet every single cat desperately wants to step over Mirana's boundaries. It has been 10 months since Aurora's arrival. Aurora enjoys chase games with dogs a lot, but does not get that this stuff should not be played in the same way with Mirana. I asked some "cat people" and they said such stuff is normal, they are like two sisters having a fight sometimes. Other fosters said I should only keep the cats with identical temper. I was annoyed enough to offer her up for adoption and now I have a very nice couple interested in her and I am not sure what to do. I would really love to keep her but I am trying to be selfless to see what is good for both everyone here.
I would value any advice!
I struggled a lot to get her to eat, managed it only after 3 days of trying to spoon feed her after which she started trusting me. She started being more confident and eating normally, however she was still hiding for a long time when I was not home and would appear only when I was there to ask for some cuddles. Eventually we would start sleeping together every night and she is very attached to me; still shy around strangers or even people she knows but I am her person.
After almost a year I got a puppy and started fostering another abandoned cat, but keeping them strictly separated and introducing them slowly. She is fine with dog except an occasional gentle slap when he is being too annoying, she was never afraid. With cat...she never got along with because the cat was bullying her. The cat got a new home and I had a temporary flatmate, his cat was very dominant and bullying her as well. After they were gone, my next foster was another female cat and she was more indifferent and they coexisted rather nicely, she was a very wholesome cat, I kept her and named her Aurora. But was still chasing her playfully sometime and not getting the clear hissing/defensive position to leave her alone after every single time she tried the chase. They eventually got along to the point that they ignore each other but every day there is a chase attempt and Mirana's hissing. I notice Mirana is nowadays confident enough to play in front of the Aurora, sleeping close to each other is no problem, they even eat from the same bowl sometimes and in general they are ok with each other except when Aurora gets too energetic. The whole ordeal stops after hissing immediately but it still bothers me. Particularly since once during these play/run attempts Mirana fell from 2m height.
She started getting more and more attached to me and they often sleep next to me in bed, one from each side, purring together. It's wonderful.
I had two more fosters in a separate room in a year to come, both of which expressed similar chasing interest in chasing Mirana. One of them got home as the only cat as he hated both of my cats, another one is still there but shows no interest towards Aurora.
I keep every foster cat separated in a room full of enrichment, toys, scrathing posts, comfy surfaces; I give them pets and playtime during the day. But I don't let them roam freely until I stop seeing aggression/defensiveness (hissing, growling) of them and my cats as well. Also, I wait at least 6 weeks after spaying/neutering to let them roam. So far I only let Aurora roam free full time.
I have tried everything, from hormonal spray to reintroduction, yet every single cat desperately wants to step over Mirana's boundaries. It has been 10 months since Aurora's arrival. Aurora enjoys chase games with dogs a lot, but does not get that this stuff should not be played in the same way with Mirana. I asked some "cat people" and they said such stuff is normal, they are like two sisters having a fight sometimes. Other fosters said I should only keep the cats with identical temper. I was annoyed enough to offer her up for adoption and now I have a very nice couple interested in her and I am not sure what to do. I would really love to keep her but I am trying to be selfless to see what is good for both everyone here.
I would value any advice!
Mirana has learned that there are very few boundaries in your home. After a year of creating a safe environment for her, there have been 7 new creatures in the past 24 months whose very real needs have come at the expense of her feelings of safety. My guess is that she has reached a balance with Aurora and dog simply because they are longer-term residents whose behavior she can predict and feel confident working with and around. It sounds like each new foster results in a renewed sense of fear and insecurity for Mirana.
Unless you can significantly change your living environment to something that has totally separate living spaces for Mirana vs. fosters (that is, separated apartments), I recommend making a choice between keeping Mirana or continuing to foster other creatures. If you want to keep fostering, a kind thing may be to rehome Mirana someplace where she can be the only pet. Ideally that would be a calm home with an owner who is generally present (it sounds like she enjoys your familiar presence, so a home where there's no one around for long stretches might not be a good fit).
posted by cocoagirl at 5:57 AM on January 30, 2023 [27 favorites]
Unless you can significantly change your living environment to something that has totally separate living spaces for Mirana vs. fosters (that is, separated apartments), I recommend making a choice between keeping Mirana or continuing to foster other creatures. If you want to keep fostering, a kind thing may be to rehome Mirana someplace where she can be the only pet. Ideally that would be a calm home with an owner who is generally present (it sounds like she enjoys your familiar presence, so a home where there's no one around for long stretches might not be a good fit).
posted by cocoagirl at 5:57 AM on January 30, 2023 [27 favorites]
“My cat, who is nervous around strange animals, is getting nervous when I constantly bring strange animals into the house” - like, obviously? It almost seems like you’re angry at this cat for being anxious, in a situation where many many cats would be anxious. Fostering is great! It is also demonstrably NOT great for this cat, so yeah, you need to choose between keeping the cat and continuing to foster.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:18 AM on January 30, 2023 [23 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:18 AM on January 30, 2023 [23 favorites]
I think you have a choice of a few options:
A. Make an easier environment for Mirana by stopping fostering
B. Make an easier environment for Mirana by placing her in a home where she’s the only pet
C. Continue dealing with a stressed out Mirana
posted by bluedaisy at 6:35 AM on January 30, 2023 [13 favorites]
A. Make an easier environment for Mirana by stopping fostering
B. Make an easier environment for Mirana by placing her in a home where she’s the only pet
C. Continue dealing with a stressed out Mirana
posted by bluedaisy at 6:35 AM on January 30, 2023 [13 favorites]
Hi, I don't like cats (or, in fact, pretty much all pets), so I'm coming at this from an entirely different angle than you, but hear me out.
At the start of the pandemic, my family had a cat. The circumstances don't matter, but the cat and I intersect very little. Some friends had to relocate quickly and couldn't find a place to live that would allow them to take two cats with them. Faced with the prospect of the two cats going to a shelter, we took them in. We tried everything we could to get the three cats to get along. After more than a year, it simply had not happened. The elder cat was pretty much restricted to staying on the couch where she could see the other ones coming if they decided to be assholes. She was losing weight, slowing down, and clearly miserable.
So finally I said, "Okay, this ain't working; the new cats are basement cats now." This is also where my spouse's home office is, so she takes care of them during the day and they chill out down there at night, and the basement door remains closed at all times. They have come to accept this. The elder cat has regained weight and vitality. Now, why does she get to stay upstairs (even though she starts yowling for food at the exact moment anyone's alarm clock goes off in the morning)? Because she was here first. When we took her in, we committed to giving her a home in which she could survive on her own terms.
Mirana has seniority. When you took her in, you committed to giving her a home in which she could survive on her own terms. That does not appear to include having other cats around.
Stop fostering, or give Mirana to another home in which she can survive on her own terms.
posted by Etrigan at 6:47 AM on January 30, 2023 [17 favorites]
At the start of the pandemic, my family had a cat. The circumstances don't matter, but the cat and I intersect very little. Some friends had to relocate quickly and couldn't find a place to live that would allow them to take two cats with them. Faced with the prospect of the two cats going to a shelter, we took them in. We tried everything we could to get the three cats to get along. After more than a year, it simply had not happened. The elder cat was pretty much restricted to staying on the couch where she could see the other ones coming if they decided to be assholes. She was losing weight, slowing down, and clearly miserable.
So finally I said, "Okay, this ain't working; the new cats are basement cats now." This is also where my spouse's home office is, so she takes care of them during the day and they chill out down there at night, and the basement door remains closed at all times. They have come to accept this. The elder cat has regained weight and vitality. Now, why does she get to stay upstairs (even though she starts yowling for food at the exact moment anyone's alarm clock goes off in the morning)? Because she was here first. When we took her in, we committed to giving her a home in which she could survive on her own terms.
Mirana has seniority. When you took her in, you committed to giving her a home in which she could survive on her own terms. That does not appear to include having other cats around.
Stop fostering, or give Mirana to another home in which she can survive on her own terms.
posted by Etrigan at 6:47 AM on January 30, 2023 [17 favorites]
I also remember your previous questions and I know that fostering animals in need of a home is very important to you. If that's the case, it sounds like your best bet is to rehome Mirana to the nice couple who have expressed interest in her, on the proviso that she be an only cat. Some cats are just not happy with other cats. You're getting stressed out and Mirana is also getting stressed out by trying to force her into a situation she is temperamentally unsuited to being in.
But have you considered volunteering for a cat rescue charity onsite (e.g. by socialising the cats there, cleaning out pens etc) or being a volunteer walker for a dog charity?
posted by unicorn chaser at 7:44 AM on January 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
But have you considered volunteering for a cat rescue charity onsite (e.g. by socialising the cats there, cleaning out pens etc) or being a volunteer walker for a dog charity?
posted by unicorn chaser at 7:44 AM on January 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
Since it sounds like Mirana will be happier in a household with no other cats, she should probably be adopted by the nice couple who found you. That's awesome!
I'd recommend doing a very gentle, gradual transition to the new place. Ask the new couple to visit her a couple of times, if possible, and either a) you donate her current bed to the adopters, or b) have them bring a blanket that will be her permanent bedding to your house for Mirana to get used to, maybe a week of so ahead of time.
Then, a pre-visit for the cat in the new home actually seems to help a lot. Just take her to the new home, and let her hang out in the small room (usually bathroom) where she'll spend her first week after adoption; stay in there with her and the new adopters for 30 minutes to an hour, with a litter box and food in their eventual locations, and then take her back to your place.
Then, a day or three later (or, a week, if you want to do the pre-visit on one weekend date and then do the final adoption on a Friday or Saturday so the adopters can spend the weekend with her), you bring her for the final adoption.
Since she'll have been in the space previously and it didn't turn out terribly for her, she should be a lot less stressed than if she arrived in a new space and was left alone there for a long time without any clue whether she was being abandoned there. She knows that she wasn't abandoned there the first time (during the pre-visit), so she can have a bit more confidence the second time.
- Make sure she has at least one, preferably two places to hide in the new small space. The cat carrier -- with a blanket or towel in the bottom -- is a good one.
- If she's in a bathroom, make sure she has somewhere to sleep and be that's not a cold hard surface.
Good luck! Congratulations on winning over this sweet girl!
posted by amtho at 7:49 AM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'd recommend doing a very gentle, gradual transition to the new place. Ask the new couple to visit her a couple of times, if possible, and either a) you donate her current bed to the adopters, or b) have them bring a blanket that will be her permanent bedding to your house for Mirana to get used to, maybe a week of so ahead of time.
Then, a pre-visit for the cat in the new home actually seems to help a lot. Just take her to the new home, and let her hang out in the small room (usually bathroom) where she'll spend her first week after adoption; stay in there with her and the new adopters for 30 minutes to an hour, with a litter box and food in their eventual locations, and then take her back to your place.
Then, a day or three later (or, a week, if you want to do the pre-visit on one weekend date and then do the final adoption on a Friday or Saturday so the adopters can spend the weekend with her), you bring her for the final adoption.
Since she'll have been in the space previously and it didn't turn out terribly for her, she should be a lot less stressed than if she arrived in a new space and was left alone there for a long time without any clue whether she was being abandoned there. She knows that she wasn't abandoned there the first time (during the pre-visit), so she can have a bit more confidence the second time.
- Make sure she has at least one, preferably two places to hide in the new small space. The cat carrier -- with a blanket or towel in the bottom -- is a good one.
- If she's in a bathroom, make sure she has somewhere to sleep and be that's not a cold hard surface.
Good luck! Congratulations on winning over this sweet girl!
posted by amtho at 7:49 AM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
If I were you, I would keep my current pets who I made a commitment to, and volunteer on site at an animal shelter instead of fostering in your home. Those animals need help badly as well, and that way you can continue to help animals in need, without the stress on your existing pets that fostering causes.
If fostering is a non-negotiable for you, if you absolutely cannot live without continuing to foster random animals, then you need to get rid of Mirana, period, because keeping her and continuing to foster are not compatible. It is cruel and stressful to Mirana to keep her in a household where she can never feel safe and secure. The same goes for other opportunities to adopt like the dog you described in your last post—your primary obligation is to the pets you’ve already committed to care for, and giving them a good home is so important. You cannot solve every problem for every animal, and I think you need to recognize that, and I think you need to decide if it’s more important to you to foster (helping lots of animals short term) or be a pet parent and volunteer elsewhere (giving your permanent pets a safe and peaceful home, and also helping lots of animals).
I have a cat and volunteer at an animal shelter and I can attest that volunteering outside your home is absolutely just as helpful to animal rescue organizations and can be just as personally rewarding as fostering. Cats on site at shelters who are locked in tiny cages all day and barely get attention need love and care on a regular basis!
posted by music for skeletons at 9:25 AM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
If fostering is a non-negotiable for you, if you absolutely cannot live without continuing to foster random animals, then you need to get rid of Mirana, period, because keeping her and continuing to foster are not compatible. It is cruel and stressful to Mirana to keep her in a household where she can never feel safe and secure. The same goes for other opportunities to adopt like the dog you described in your last post—your primary obligation is to the pets you’ve already committed to care for, and giving them a good home is so important. You cannot solve every problem for every animal, and I think you need to recognize that, and I think you need to decide if it’s more important to you to foster (helping lots of animals short term) or be a pet parent and volunteer elsewhere (giving your permanent pets a safe and peaceful home, and also helping lots of animals).
I have a cat and volunteer at an animal shelter and I can attest that volunteering outside your home is absolutely just as helpful to animal rescue organizations and can be just as personally rewarding as fostering. Cats on site at shelters who are locked in tiny cages all day and barely get attention need love and care on a regular basis!
posted by music for skeletons at 9:25 AM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you for the replies! I suppose I forgot to mention the following:
-I am sadly not able to help in any other way than fostering due to finances. I am living in Eastern Europe, homeowning and inflation make me basically live paycheck to paycheck. There are no animal shelters where one could help on-site that would not require a long drive; there are only organizations you can help financially which I cannot. Animal rescue organizations at least to some extent help with vet bills in exchange for giving them a place to stay. So it is either rehoming everyone or giving up fostering completely, which is a big part of my life.
-Every foster is located in a separate area of my home. I never put them together under no supervision and tolerate the abuse. Mirana expresses interest in other cats and if i see her discomfort, I separate them.
-When other fosters are separated, Mirana has absolutely no problem and behaves normally and stress-free
-My question was mostly - probably should be rephrased - how much "unwanted chasing" is okay or not harmful to Mirana? Should I keep the cat that is totally okay and friendly with her 95% of the time but chases her every now and then? Is it possible to prevent this behavior and keep both cats?
posted by Salicornia at 10:02 AM on January 30, 2023
-I am sadly not able to help in any other way than fostering due to finances. I am living in Eastern Europe, homeowning and inflation make me basically live paycheck to paycheck. There are no animal shelters where one could help on-site that would not require a long drive; there are only organizations you can help financially which I cannot. Animal rescue organizations at least to some extent help with vet bills in exchange for giving them a place to stay. So it is either rehoming everyone or giving up fostering completely, which is a big part of my life.
-Every foster is located in a separate area of my home. I never put them together under no supervision and tolerate the abuse. Mirana expresses interest in other cats and if i see her discomfort, I separate them.
-When other fosters are separated, Mirana has absolutely no problem and behaves normally and stress-free
-My question was mostly - probably should be rephrased - how much "unwanted chasing" is okay or not harmful to Mirana? Should I keep the cat that is totally okay and friendly with her 95% of the time but chases her every now and then? Is it possible to prevent this behavior and keep both cats?
posted by Salicornia at 10:02 AM on January 30, 2023
Given that Miranda can be relaxed around Aurora 95% of the time and that she knows how to make the chasing stop, I think Miranda would not be traumatized by the occasional unwanted initiation of chasing. You don't need to make this stop, Miranda can stop it herself.
You are right to keep the other fosters separated until they have proven that they are not going to bully Miranda. Over time (years maybe) Miranda may gradually learn to be more assertive with the new animals (or not). It's good that you are protecting her and prioritizing her well-being.
posted by metahawk at 10:10 AM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
You are right to keep the other fosters separated until they have proven that they are not going to bully Miranda. Over time (years maybe) Miranda may gradually learn to be more assertive with the new animals (or not). It's good that you are protecting her and prioritizing her well-being.
posted by metahawk at 10:10 AM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
I am coming at this as a human who belongs to a cat that sounds similar to Miranda. He is very bonded to me, but is wary of all other people. He was in a foster home before I adopted him - he had to be kept in a separate room because the other cats in the foster home were bullying him. I can see why - he never bites, never scratches, he just doesn't seem to be wired that way. When I got him, I accepted that I would never bring another cat into my home as long as my current cat is alive. He's friendly to other cats, but he's too much of a pushover.
I did bring home a puppy a few months ago, and even that I felt a lot of trepidation about, but I did it knowing that my cat LOVES dogs. While it was a little rough in the first couple days, and I do feel some guilt that my cat is no longer an "only" child, he is actually happier and more relaxed since I got the puppy. Sometimes the puppy gets over excited, but they also groom each other and play fight and I think my cat really loves the puppy.
When I first got my cat, he had chronic GI problems (this is related, I promise). When asked whether he was acting normal/playful, etc, I was like, "Yes he plays, he eats, etc". But it was only after I got those issues resolved that I realized he really hadn't been acting "normal" - he became way more relaxed and energetic and playful.
My point in this long rambling comment is to see if you can do some kind of trial period where you see how Mirana does as an only pet. Maybe this means doing a 1 week trial with the couple interested in adopting her, or maybe find a place for Aurora (and ideally the dog) to stay for a few days. Is her behavior the same? Or is she more relaxed? Or maybe she seems less happy.
On its face, occasionally being chased by another cat living in the home doesn't seem like the end of the world. But for some cats, that could be really stressful. As could the presence of other cats in the home, if Mirana potentially associates that with being chased.
If you do decide to keep Mirana, I would not expose her to the foster cats, if you must keep fostering. You also have to make a judgment call as to how well you think Mirana could adjust to a new home. Again, for my particular cat, I think he would struggle to adapt to a new home. He needs quiet, not a lot of exposure to other people, and he's just extremely, extremely bonded to me.
I'm sure you're bonded to both your cats and your dog, and I can tell fostering is important to you, but you also need to think about what is the best situation for Mirana.
posted by litera scripta manet at 2:51 PM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
I did bring home a puppy a few months ago, and even that I felt a lot of trepidation about, but I did it knowing that my cat LOVES dogs. While it was a little rough in the first couple days, and I do feel some guilt that my cat is no longer an "only" child, he is actually happier and more relaxed since I got the puppy. Sometimes the puppy gets over excited, but they also groom each other and play fight and I think my cat really loves the puppy.
When I first got my cat, he had chronic GI problems (this is related, I promise). When asked whether he was acting normal/playful, etc, I was like, "Yes he plays, he eats, etc". But it was only after I got those issues resolved that I realized he really hadn't been acting "normal" - he became way more relaxed and energetic and playful.
My point in this long rambling comment is to see if you can do some kind of trial period where you see how Mirana does as an only pet. Maybe this means doing a 1 week trial with the couple interested in adopting her, or maybe find a place for Aurora (and ideally the dog) to stay for a few days. Is her behavior the same? Or is she more relaxed? Or maybe she seems less happy.
On its face, occasionally being chased by another cat living in the home doesn't seem like the end of the world. But for some cats, that could be really stressful. As could the presence of other cats in the home, if Mirana potentially associates that with being chased.
If you do decide to keep Mirana, I would not expose her to the foster cats, if you must keep fostering. You also have to make a judgment call as to how well you think Mirana could adjust to a new home. Again, for my particular cat, I think he would struggle to adapt to a new home. He needs quiet, not a lot of exposure to other people, and he's just extremely, extremely bonded to me.
I'm sure you're bonded to both your cats and your dog, and I can tell fostering is important to you, but you also need to think about what is the best situation for Mirana.
posted by litera scripta manet at 2:51 PM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Looking at your posting history, I can see that helping animals is a big part of who you are and I think sometimes folks who foster find issues with some of their pets, as you've noticed.
Mirana seems lovely and like you, I also feel badly that these fosters bother her. It feels as though fostering others and keeping Mirana may not be a workable plan. She's getting stressed, even though she isn't meeting them I am sure she smells and hears the new visitors and this feels like a not so great situation for her.
Are there ways you could help animals but not keep them in your home? Again, I see you're doing great things, but I feel that you're doing them at the expense of your pets.
(I say this as someone who has a family member who loves animals and fosters worrisome dogs, and those foster dogs terrify her own 2 dogs. I love her, but she doesn't see how it's an issue.)
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 3:31 AM on January 30, 2023 [33 favorites]