Preventing Frogpocalypse
December 20, 2022 9:31 PM Subscribe
Ideas / suggestions for making sure my frogs don't freeze in the event of a power outage? Like raccoon409, I'm in the Raleigh area. I have several terraria with little frogs living in them. They probably wouldn't survive being frozen... and it's super hard to put their little puffer coats on (which wouldn't work anyway since they're cold-blooded).
It's about to get really cold, and there might be a power outage.
My only real ideas are:
- put them in the best / most insulated location I can;
- buy some chemical hand warmers from the drug store ??? These seem really inadequate;
- make sure my phone is charged so I can try to call people who might still have power (but taking the frogs on a road trip in the icy seems fraught);
- maybe try to find some local friends to take on 2-3 frogs at a time, which would be a lot easier to manage in an emergency + spread out the risk some.
To be clear, they're in heavy glass terraria with water features and mesh tops, so I can't just grab them and hide them in the blankets in bed -- the terraria won't move. I have some "critter keepers" which will hold some of them, and I'll look for other small containers; if they're cold (but not frozen), they might be easy to get into small spaces, but beyond that...
I can improvise, but if you have any ideas to help me plan, I'd be grateful.
Other ideas? I don't think I can get any shipping heat sources.
It's about to get really cold, and there might be a power outage.
My only real ideas are:
- put them in the best / most insulated location I can;
- buy some chemical hand warmers from the drug store ??? These seem really inadequate;
- make sure my phone is charged so I can try to call people who might still have power (but taking the frogs on a road trip in the icy seems fraught);
- maybe try to find some local friends to take on 2-3 frogs at a time, which would be a lot easier to manage in an emergency + spread out the risk some.
To be clear, they're in heavy glass terraria with water features and mesh tops, so I can't just grab them and hide them in the blankets in bed -- the terraria won't move. I have some "critter keepers" which will hold some of them, and I'll look for other small containers; if they're cold (but not frozen), they might be easy to get into small spaces, but beyond that...
I can improvise, but if you have any ideas to help me plan, I'd be grateful.
Other ideas? I don't think I can get any shipping heat sources.
You could put a critter keeper inside a styrofoam box (with ventilation, obviously) or one of the those insulated grocery bags. If you have a gas stove or another way to heat water, you could fill a hot water bottle to put inside this setup. Alternatively, I'm not sure what your obstacle is re: shipping heat sources, but Josh's Frogs sells them, along with some temperature-stabilizing stuff. Maybe you can't get them in time? I have a couple USB-rechargeable hand warmers that could possibly help, though they only hold a charge for a few hours. These disposable packs claim to last 10 hours.
Have you had your heat go out in a cold winter before? I've experienced that in a Minnesota winter, and while it was uncomfortable, the indoor temperature didn't drop below 50 degrees F. I know that's not good for frogs, but maybe it isn't as bad as you're imagining (caveat: Minnesota buildings are very well-insulated).
If you want to ask experts, you could suggest this as a topic for the Josh's Frogs blog. They're in Michigan, so they've certainly thought about this.
I'm sure you know this, but don't feed them when they're cold.
posted by Comet Bug at 10:25 PM on December 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Have you had your heat go out in a cold winter before? I've experienced that in a Minnesota winter, and while it was uncomfortable, the indoor temperature didn't drop below 50 degrees F. I know that's not good for frogs, but maybe it isn't as bad as you're imagining (caveat: Minnesota buildings are very well-insulated).
If you want to ask experts, you could suggest this as a topic for the Josh's Frogs blog. They're in Michigan, so they've certainly thought about this.
I'm sure you know this, but don't feed them when they're cold.
posted by Comet Bug at 10:25 PM on December 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: I'll be home, so that's helpful.
Also, I think I have a camp stove available; maybe I can find a way to safely heat water with it for hot water bottles.
I'm not sure what your obstacle is re: shipping heat sources, but Josh's Frogs sells them
I don't think there's time to ship them, and also Josh's seems to be out of stock -- which makes sense, since there's a large group of people worried about cold temperatures.
I'm sure you know this, but don't feed them when they're cold.
Right, but I think it's good to feed them a lot prior? They're 1.5" long; do you think 12-16 hours is
enough to assume their guts will be clear before the chance of super cold?
posted by amtho at 11:29 PM on December 20, 2022
Also, I think I have a camp stove available; maybe I can find a way to safely heat water with it for hot water bottles.
I'm not sure what your obstacle is re: shipping heat sources, but Josh's Frogs sells them
I don't think there's time to ship them, and also Josh's seems to be out of stock -- which makes sense, since there's a large group of people worried about cold temperatures.
I'm sure you know this, but don't feed them when they're cold.
Right, but I think it's good to feed them a lot prior? They're 1.5" long; do you think 12-16 hours is
enough to assume their guts will be clear before the chance of super cold?
posted by amtho at 11:29 PM on December 20, 2022
If you do lose power wrapping the terraria in towels/blankets will go a long way to slowing the cooling of the water. Tuck your hot water bottles under the blankets but with a towel layer between the bottle and glass.
Your hot water doesn't have to be boiling. Twice as much water at half the differential contributes the same amount of heat (sort of-close enough for your purposes) and is a lot safer to handle. Moderately warm water can be poured into mundane containers like pop bottles using a funnel. Keep the water temperature down to where your frogs won't get injured and you could put the bottles directly in the tanks. Nalgene bottles are perfect for this use.
If you have a hot water tank you can get several dozen gallons of 100 degree water out of it before it is replaced with cold ŵater.
posted by Mitheral at 11:55 PM on December 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Your hot water doesn't have to be boiling. Twice as much water at half the differential contributes the same amount of heat (sort of-close enough for your purposes) and is a lot safer to handle. Moderately warm water can be poured into mundane containers like pop bottles using a funnel. Keep the water temperature down to where your frogs won't get injured and you could put the bottles directly in the tanks. Nalgene bottles are perfect for this use.
If you have a hot water tank you can get several dozen gallons of 100 degree water out of it before it is replaced with cold ŵater.
posted by Mitheral at 11:55 PM on December 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
It's pretty unlikely that your temperatures will go below freezing indoors.
But if they do, one way to keep humans warm is to retain their body heat in a tent set up indoors. Draping blankets on top of it will help even more. Hang out in it with the frogs in "critter keepers."
posted by metasarah at 4:58 AM on December 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
But if they do, one way to keep humans warm is to retain their body heat in a tent set up indoors. Draping blankets on top of it will help even more. Hang out in it with the frogs in "critter keepers."
posted by metasarah at 4:58 AM on December 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
You can buy EXTREMELY LARGE batteries, which can run heat lamps. For example, a 1500 watt battery costs about $1500 and can run a heat lamp for about 12 hours (I think, my napkin math might be wrong). Smaller batteries are more affordable, if you're worried about shorter power outages or just want the option of a small amount of heat. I don't know how much money you're willing to throw at this, of course, but it's worth mentioning.
I take it your stove is electric, not gas, or else hot water wouldn't be a problem...
posted by branca at 6:03 AM on December 21, 2022
I take it your stove is electric, not gas, or else hot water wouldn't be a problem...
posted by branca at 6:03 AM on December 21, 2022
Yeah, it takes a very long time for an unheated space to drop below freezing, especially if you're smart about maximizing solar gain/minimizing heat loss. I've experienced week-long power outages in midwestern winters and never had the indoor temperature drop below 40. Looking at your forecast, with daytime temps in the 30s and nighttime temps in the teens for a couple of days, your inside temperature won't drop below freezing in a power outage unless you opened all your windows and doors.
posted by drlith at 6:09 AM on December 21, 2022
posted by drlith at 6:09 AM on December 21, 2022
Response by poster: More data:
- My weird place has _four_ sets of sliding glass doors, one in each bedroom, the living room, and the kitchen. I'm probably going to put up some plastic over one or two, but it gets cold fast.
- $1500 is too much.
posted by amtho at 8:35 AM on December 21, 2022
- My weird place has _four_ sets of sliding glass doors, one in each bedroom, the living room, and the kitchen. I'm probably going to put up some plastic over one or two, but it gets cold fast.
- $1500 is too much.
posted by amtho at 8:35 AM on December 21, 2022
Right, but I think it's good to feed them a lot prior? They're 1.5" long; do you think 12-16 hours is
enough to assume their guts will be clear before the chance of super cold?
Sorry, I don't know. I'm more into lizards.
If any of your friends have gas stoves at home, you could load up a cooler of hot water bottles at their place.
posted by Comet Bug at 11:11 AM on December 21, 2022
enough to assume their guts will be clear before the chance of super cold?
Sorry, I don't know. I'm more into lizards.
If any of your friends have gas stoves at home, you could load up a cooler of hot water bottles at their place.
posted by Comet Bug at 11:11 AM on December 21, 2022
I think hot water bottles are the way to go, if you can. I've never had to do it, but that is also the recommended way to keep aquariums warm if no heater is available. You either place heated bottles directly into the tank/sump or periodically take water out, heat it, and pour it back in.
Another thought: Candles? A standard (not tealight) paraffin candle produces ~80W of heat and you can expect them to give off a steady heat (and light) for about 1 hour per inch. They're also very easy to store and keep available. A few setup near the terraria might radiate enough heat in that area to see you through an outage. I wouldn't try to heat an entire room, but they should create a heat gradient. I'd just want to make sure I had a temperature gun or something so I could make sure nothing got too hot.
I would focus on better insulating your home with things like plastic covers, heavy curtains, etc to slow the loss of heat more than trying to heat up from freezing.
posted by forbiddencabinet at 12:48 PM on December 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Another thought: Candles? A standard (not tealight) paraffin candle produces ~80W of heat and you can expect them to give off a steady heat (and light) for about 1 hour per inch. They're also very easy to store and keep available. A few setup near the terraria might radiate enough heat in that area to see you through an outage. I wouldn't try to heat an entire room, but they should create a heat gradient. I'd just want to make sure I had a temperature gun or something so I could make sure nothing got too hot.
I would focus on better insulating your home with things like plastic covers, heavy curtains, etc to slow the loss of heat more than trying to heat up from freezing.
posted by forbiddencabinet at 12:48 PM on December 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Kerosene heater? Also, make sure to use that camp stove outdoors to boil water.
posted by 10ch at 3:44 PM on December 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by 10ch at 3:44 PM on December 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
How are the frogs (and you)?
posted by Comet Bug at 8:16 PM on December 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Comet Bug at 8:16 PM on December 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
If you're going to be home, I'd be looking at generators and power banks (and maybe little solar panels, if any can generate meaningful amounts of power in post-storm weather if you're expecting very long outages?); things like hot water bottles stored in (even more) insulated containers so they can last a while; and yeah, insulation in the frogs' area. And thermometers, which I assume you have.
I wonder if zoos or amphibian organizations in cold areas might have some specific advice?
posted by trig at 10:19 PM on December 20, 2022