Are all German lawyers doctors?

December 14, 2022 3:50 PM

I know that qualified lawyers in Germany often (always?) have the title doctor, and I know that doctor is a heavily regulated title in Germany. But when I am reading German filings with the BfDI, they are often signed by two or more lawyers, but only some of the lawyers use the title doctor. Is this a difference in education, registration, or personal preference?

Google results on this question are poisoned by US JDs complaining about other countries having Ll.B.s, and UK Ll.B.s who think that German lawyers are all stuck up in a cosmic and non-specific fashion, so I have not been able to figure it out.

Please feel free to include other regional variations in lawyers' formal address, if you so choose (because I know you nerds will want to). Having a basic question about German lawyers' titles has made me curious about other countries.

(P.S. "esq." for American lawyers is both incorrect and terminally pretentious; this is my hill, and it is a small hill, but I will die on it. So don't tell me about that one.)

posted by Eyebrows McGee to Law & Government (9 answers total)

I believe that German lawyers can only call themselves "Dr." if they've completed a doctoral thesis. The majority have not, though it seems like more do than the American equivalent.
posted by praemunire at 5:47 PM on December 14, 2022

Please feel free to include other regional variations in lawyers' formal address, if you so choose (because I know you nerds will want to).

Senior counsel recognized for excellence in their profession in the UK are "Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs Firstname Lastname, KC [formerly QC]," for "King's [formerly Queen's] Counsel." I am sorry to report that their letters patent also entitle male KC to use "Esq.", though I believe it's often not done.
posted by praemunire at 6:02 PM on December 14, 2022

Dr. is comparable to a PhD, with a doctoral thesis. Not needed for the profession but advantageous for senior positions, salary, and being seen as a thinker.
posted by meijusa at 10:57 PM on December 14, 2022

Yes, in Germany you have to write and defend a dissertation in order to put the "Dr." in front of your name. In order to become a lawyer, you don't have to do that, so some lawyers have the title and some don't. (However, you are not required to use the title "Dr." if you have it.)
posted by amf at 1:59 AM on December 15, 2022

Fully qualified lawyers in the Czech Republic are known as JUDr. Firstname Lastname, which stands for Juris Doctor (Latin for doctor of law, same name as the degree awarded in the US). They tend to use the title everywhere, even in non-legal contexts, but it's not a lawyer thing, it's a Czech thing. People here are very into titles, even people who have an undergraduate degree will use Mgr. (Magister) or Ing. (Ingenieur, for anyone with a bachelor of science). My theory is it's a cultural holdover from the days of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
posted by Cimrmanova at 2:04 AM on December 15, 2022

This sounds like the distinction between JD and SJD in the US?
posted by atomicstone at 5:17 AM on December 15, 2022

For what it's worth I've seen this in the opposite direction, with a German friend of mine introducing me as a "promovierter Jurist" (i.e. doctorate-having attorney; yes, German has a specific word for "receiving/awarding a doctoral title") on the basis that the JD is (very, very technically) considered a doctoral-level degree in the US. He understands that a thesis is not involved, which he finds a bit bizarre, but he's a political science professor with a PhD and has taught at American and German universities, so there's at least one example of someone who would presumably know the rules around it considering the JD "equivalent" to the doctoral German degrees.
posted by jedicus at 10:04 AM on December 15, 2022

In Australia, admission as a solicitor requires either a Bachelor of Laws (or similarly-named 4 year degree), which is often referred to as LLB, as well as the various other steps like clerkship, bar exams etc. An alternative is where people have already completed an undergraduate degree other than law and then go on to a Master of Laws or similar (3 year degree).

Australia operates a unified qualification framework that carries all the way through secondary school, vocational education and higher education - the Australian Qualifications Framework. This governs the characteristics of courses at every level and, relevant to this discussion, the appropriate titles. A bachelor degree sits at level 7 of the AQF (with honours is level 8), a masters at level 9 and a doctorate at level 10. In almost every circumstance, only a person that has completed a Doctoral Degree is entitled to use the title 'Doctor', which includes courses like Doctor of Philosophy or Doctor of Advanced Economics.

Relevantly, completion of a masters degree (extended) in law, which has very similar but slightly different characteristics to a coursework or research degree (but is at the same level), is permitted to be referred to as a (eg) Juris Doctor of Laws, but only for legal practice. Just to add confusion to the whole thing, completion of a masters degree (extended) in medicine is permitted to be referred to as a (eg) Doctor of Medicine, but only for medical practice; physiotherapy; dentistry; optometry and veterinary practice.

Legally, the term 'Doctor' is not protected under Australian law, but the term 'medical practitioner' is. So there's technically nothing to stop a lawyer or anyone else from calling themselves a doctor, with the exception of some random professional registration requirements such as psychologists holding a non-medical doctorate being prohibited from referring to themselves as 'Dr Smith' unless they also clarify they are not a medical practitioner by adding their profession anywhere they use the Dr title (eg Dr Smith (Psychologist)) unless they also hold a medical degree of masters (extended) or higher.

So, back to solicitors/lawyers - if a solicitor holds a doctorate, they can call themselves Dr Smith, no matter what field their doctorate is in. They may hold a qualification titled 'Juris Doctor of Laws', which doesn't entitle them to use the title doctor, although they could technically use 'Juris Doctor Smith' and they'd be technically correct but everyone would laugh at them. If they are a King's Counsel (now - there's another place I'd forgotten about where all the stationery needs to change to acknowledge King Charlie), they can also use the post-nominal KC. Protocol tells us that the postnominal 'Esquire' is restricted to KCs, based on the historic meaning of the term as being a 'candidate for knighthood' and formerly bestowed by the King. Again, here's a good way to get people to laugh at you and call you a stupid bloody ponce.

Australia is not a country where people are generally impressed by titles, though, so they are generally used relatively modestly and often not used on things like business cards, but definitely on legal firm letterhead etc.
posted by dg at 7:47 PM on December 15, 2022

Germans are suckers for academic titles. It is worth noting that higher education is largely funded by the state. And that, at least historically, hiring for positions with an expectation of fast progression, some employers were actively looking for people who had reached an age, where they could be expected to act like mature adults. As a result, people who have a PhD get browny points in terms of recruitment, progression and pay. And employers will generally expect their employees to use any and all titles because it enhances their prestige. When I spent a lot of time working in Germany I sat in a meeting with clients, let‘s call them Dr A and Dr B, where we announced a new team member, a Dr C, and both their faces lit up like a Christmas tree….because they could finally have a Dr to meet with, not just us mere graduates with MAs, professional qualifications and years of experience…..Dr C was going to be the least experienced out of us but he had a PhD.
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:11 AM on December 17, 2022