Covid is not endemic
November 29, 2022 1:10 PM Subscribe
My job just sent out an email saying that covid is now endemic, so we can all start to spend more time on campus. Okay, but it's not. It causes severe, lifelong disruptions to health. People can become totally disabled. It makes me extremely anxious, especially when I'm in conference calls with coworkers and I can see they're in tiny rooms with each other with no masks on. Is anyone else having to work hard on suppressing their instincts to tell the truth about what's going on?
In order to cope with the severe anxiety of seeing people I like putting themselves at unnecessary risk, I'm working on a personal strategy of "Looking out for number one" and I try to remember to ask myself if anything I say or do at work is going to help me directly. I know that speaking up and being annoying and saying things people don't want to hear doesn't help me directly, in fact it will only do me harm. But gosh, it is draining. It is tiring. I hate it. Is this just what life will be, forever?
Is anyone else going through this?
Please only answer if you actually are going through what I have described above. Please do not answer if you're not personally experiencing this. I am ok if no one answers.
In order to cope with the severe anxiety of seeing people I like putting themselves at unnecessary risk, I'm working on a personal strategy of "Looking out for number one" and I try to remember to ask myself if anything I say or do at work is going to help me directly. I know that speaking up and being annoying and saying things people don't want to hear doesn't help me directly, in fact it will only do me harm. But gosh, it is draining. It is tiring. I hate it. Is this just what life will be, forever?
Is anyone else going through this?
Please only answer if you actually are going through what I have described above. Please do not answer if you're not personally experiencing this. I am ok if no one answers.
This post was deleted for the following reason: OP's request -- travelingthyme
Response by poster: Not to thread sit but I'm not looking for advice on how to physically protect myself, I am permanently remote and all set on that. And I'm not looking for advice on people giving me a hard time, because where I live no one is doing that. I'm talking about the anxiety of seeing other people do something terribly unsafe and unnecessary and not being able to say anything about it.
posted by bleep at 1:22 PM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by bleep at 1:22 PM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
Is this just what life will be, forever?
https://phys.org/news/2022-11-pocket-feature-deadly-coronaviruses-pan-coronavirus.html
https://jessicawildfire.substack.com/p/you-may-be-early-but-youre-not-wrong
https://www.laboratoryequipment.com/592093-Indoor-Humidity-Levels-Linked-to-Spread-of-COVID-19/
https://engineering.ucdavis.edu/news/science-action-how-build-corsi-rosenthal-box
posted by tilde at 1:25 PM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
Just saw the update.
I lurk on Covid safety subreddits. I commiserate with like minded folks. I’m not in therapy now, but I’ve got the option to do it if I feel I need it. Some days I cry a lot.
I’ve been on anxiety meds but not lately. Like therapy, I am comforted knowing it’s an option.
Right now I have a hobby that keeps me busy, and am embarking on a house remodel so I can sell and move away from the suburbs I’ve been stuck in. I’m looking at getting cats.
posted by tilde at 1:29 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
I lurk on Covid safety subreddits. I commiserate with like minded folks. I’m not in therapy now, but I’ve got the option to do it if I feel I need it. Some days I cry a lot.
I’ve been on anxiety meds but not lately. Like therapy, I am comforted knowing it’s an option.
Right now I have a hobby that keeps me busy, and am embarking on a house remodel so I can sell and move away from the suburbs I’ve been stuck in. I’m looking at getting cats.
posted by tilde at 1:29 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
Do you feel the same way - specifically "anxiety of seeing other people do something terribly unsafe and unnecessary" about other risks that can cause lifetime harm? Things like drinking, owning a motorcycle, participating in dangerous sports, risky sexual behavior?
If you don't feel quite the same way perhaps interrogating why you don't feel the need to say anything about those might help. Perhaps it's more visible the reward they are getting from it so it doesn't feel 'unnecessary'? Perhaps you think the risks are so well known that people are clearly educated on them and it's more of an individual choice? Maybe likening their behavior to some other type of knowingly risky behavior that you are ok with people you like doing might help manage how you feel about it?
posted by true at 1:32 PM on November 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
If you don't feel quite the same way perhaps interrogating why you don't feel the need to say anything about those might help. Perhaps it's more visible the reward they are getting from it so it doesn't feel 'unnecessary'? Perhaps you think the risks are so well known that people are clearly educated on them and it's more of an individual choice? Maybe likening their behavior to some other type of knowingly risky behavior that you are ok with people you like doing might help manage how you feel about it?
posted by true at 1:32 PM on November 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
Asking sincerely: do you worry in general when you see others behaving in risky ways, or specifically around Covid?
posted by bluedaisy at 1:33 PM on November 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 1:33 PM on November 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
I think that for everyone, there are different things we learn as we grow. For me, one of those things is learning how to accept that I live in a world where people do awful things to themselves and others and that just by choosing to participate in society, even at some of its extreme edges, I too am doing awful things to myself and others.
This is the world we live in. We can pick a small handful of things and work on making those better. I think a flip side of the willingness to be aware of the awful is the capacity to appreciate the amazing.
posted by aniola at 1:39 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is the world we live in. We can pick a small handful of things and work on making those better. I think a flip side of the willingness to be aware of the awful is the capacity to appreciate the amazing.
posted by aniola at 1:39 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I mean, when I was on vacation with someone and they decided to climb a big mountain with no equipment or experience, I was like, well okay, that's not something I would do but it's your vacation, go nuts, I will drive you to the ER if you need it.
This is a contagious disease that people have varying levels of information about. Most have none.
posted by bleep at 1:46 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is a contagious disease that people have varying levels of information about. Most have none.
posted by bleep at 1:46 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm working on a personal strategy of "Looking out for number one" and I try to remember to ask myself if anything I say or do at work is going to help me directly.
You can do this with the well-being of others in mind. There was a split-second in the history of this pandemic where masks were about "you protect me, I protect you" and then poof! it disappeared and I'm not sure why.
But the logic still holds.
You can't control how much other people care about themselves or about you. But it is within the sphere of your control to do all your covid precautions not just because you care about yourself, but also because you care about other people.
posted by aniola at 1:48 PM on November 29, 2022
You can do this with the well-being of others in mind. There was a split-second in the history of this pandemic where masks were about "you protect me, I protect you" and then poof! it disappeared and I'm not sure why.
But the logic still holds.
You can't control how much other people care about themselves or about you. But it is within the sphere of your control to do all your covid precautions not just because you care about yourself, but also because you care about other people.
posted by aniola at 1:48 PM on November 29, 2022
In order to cope with the severe anxiety of seeing people I like putting themselves at unnecessary risk, I'm working on a personal strategy of "Looking out for number one"and I try to remember to ask myself if anything I say or do at work is going to help me directly.
I find that it's easier to reframe it slightly differently. Instead of putting myself first in the equation (which may not be natural for you to do*), I take myself out.
When someone is making what I think is a bad decision, I remind myself I don't likely know the whole story (even when we're close!) and I likely have different priorities then they do.
By withholding comments, I'm also making myself a safe person for them to talk to if/when they need a second opinion. Also key to this: it's not my responsibility to fix things if they go south for someone, but I do to lend a hand if I am able to do so. Withholding comments means I'm not wasting energy talking to someone not ready to listen and they'll feel safer talking to me when they are ready to listen.
So keeping the long-term goal of being someone a friend can talk to helps me bite my tongue. Unless it's a friend where I know we can go ahead and be blunt, of course. Because we're also able to agree to disagree on a number of things.
*Not that it's necessarily bad for you to put yourself first! Just that if that's not your natural state, putting yourself first and managing your reaction may be too much to do in one fell swoop.
posted by ghost phoneme at 1:48 PM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
I find that it's easier to reframe it slightly differently. Instead of putting myself first in the equation (which may not be natural for you to do*), I take myself out.
When someone is making what I think is a bad decision, I remind myself I don't likely know the whole story (even when we're close!) and I likely have different priorities then they do.
By withholding comments, I'm also making myself a safe person for them to talk to if/when they need a second opinion. Also key to this: it's not my responsibility to fix things if they go south for someone, but I do to lend a hand if I am able to do so. Withholding comments means I'm not wasting energy talking to someone not ready to listen and they'll feel safer talking to me when they are ready to listen.
So keeping the long-term goal of being someone a friend can talk to helps me bite my tongue. Unless it's a friend where I know we can go ahead and be blunt, of course. Because we're also able to agree to disagree on a number of things.
*Not that it's necessarily bad for you to put yourself first! Just that if that's not your natural state, putting yourself first and managing your reaction may be too much to do in one fell swoop.
posted by ghost phoneme at 1:48 PM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
I’m really sorry. Yes, I find it draining and exhausting to hear about how everything is back to normal. I feel like an alien when I do the one monthly in person meeting I do and am the only one masked, or as happened this month, witness a full quarter of the other meeting participants sitting around comparing their months-long covid brain fog with a level of apparent unconcern that feels bizarre to witness. I find it stressful and upsetting to see pictures of other departments having big meetings indoors and unmasked. My social circle is largely disabled and chronically ill people, and the contrast between how my colleagues approach life right now and how the rest of my personal community does, is stark and difficult to reconcile.
But: I’ve often felt like an alien at work for totally unrelated, probably neurodivergence-related, reasons. And I’ve always kept my mouth shut at work about most personal feelings about non work things. So in that regard this feels like more of the same and not like a whole new thing, and I’ve had plenty of practice at not telling my colleagues when I think their personal choices are kind of terrible. So I’m just…doing more of that. And finding ways to advocate for flexibility so that those colleagues who *do* want to behave more cautiously at work can do so without negative consequences.
posted by Stacey at 1:49 PM on November 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
But: I’ve often felt like an alien at work for totally unrelated, probably neurodivergence-related, reasons. And I’ve always kept my mouth shut at work about most personal feelings about non work things. So in that regard this feels like more of the same and not like a whole new thing, and I’ve had plenty of practice at not telling my colleagues when I think their personal choices are kind of terrible. So I’m just…doing more of that. And finding ways to advocate for flexibility so that those colleagues who *do* want to behave more cautiously at work can do so without negative consequences.
posted by Stacey at 1:49 PM on November 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
In the hopes that it helps you understand your coworkers, I'm at work right now without a mask. I see a small number of people at work and we have adequate sick time and health coverage to stay home. 95%+ of my coworkers are vaccinated. I could work from home more, but it was bad for my mental health and job performance not to leave the house. I do still wear a KN95 mask when in public for everything else (groceries, transit, museum visits, airports). FWIW, I still haven't gotten COVID, and I'm not the only one of my coworkers.
At this point, it's a trade off between varying bad things. I was extremely depressed the last half of 2021 and something needed to change. Me alone trying to fight the prevailing attitude that COVID is over doesn't have much benefit for others and had a lot of downsides for me personally, so I adjusted my risk tolerance.
posted by momus_window at 1:51 PM on November 29, 2022 [10 favorites]
At this point, it's a trade off between varying bad things. I was extremely depressed the last half of 2021 and something needed to change. Me alone trying to fight the prevailing attitude that COVID is over doesn't have much benefit for others and had a lot of downsides for me personally, so I adjusted my risk tolerance.
posted by momus_window at 1:51 PM on November 29, 2022 [10 favorites]
Okay, so I am working in a similar environment and generally wear a mask. Many people I am around do not. Yes, I do worry about them a little bit. I do wish they were wearing a mask, especially the people who I regard as vulnerable. I have wondered at times why some folks aren't wearing masks, especially the people who I regard as having been cautious previously.
But also... I see people behave in risky ways all the time, and it's out of my control. Do you what is a super dangerous thing that Americans do all the time? Drive. Driving in cars is so dangerous. Traffic deaths are up a whole lot in the US, and yet people happily get in their cars everyday.
So I think the bigger question is this: does all of this stuff make you anxious to see? Or is this Covid-related? If it's about Covid and not other things that are also risky, maybe spend some time picking that apart.
A lot of this is about control. At the root of your concern seems to be an idea that you have special knowledge that others do not, and that if they knew, if they understood, they would make the same choices. If they just would listen, they would behave the same as you. But what if instead, you decide that people have access to the same information and yet have made different choices? They have agency.
Sometimes I go bonkers when a friend is making what I regard as a poor choice (like in a relationship -- how can this person not realize that getting back together with their ex is a terrible idea?!?!?!) and I have this idea that I can make them understand and then they'll get it and make a better decision. But that's not right. I don't get to control them or help them or save them. The antidote to this is cultivating empathy and respect them for them as autonomous people.
This is a contagious disease that people have varying levels of information about. Most have none.
This is just ... not true. You are wrong. I'm sorry, but you are wrong. People have lots of information and are making different choices. You need to figure out a way to take a deep breath and step back and realize this just isn't true. And even if it were true: you can't change it. If you work on managing your anxiety and emotions, you might find that you are less invested in managing others' behavior.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:53 PM on November 29, 2022 [32 favorites]
But also... I see people behave in risky ways all the time, and it's out of my control. Do you what is a super dangerous thing that Americans do all the time? Drive. Driving in cars is so dangerous. Traffic deaths are up a whole lot in the US, and yet people happily get in their cars everyday.
So I think the bigger question is this: does all of this stuff make you anxious to see? Or is this Covid-related? If it's about Covid and not other things that are also risky, maybe spend some time picking that apart.
A lot of this is about control. At the root of your concern seems to be an idea that you have special knowledge that others do not, and that if they knew, if they understood, they would make the same choices. If they just would listen, they would behave the same as you. But what if instead, you decide that people have access to the same information and yet have made different choices? They have agency.
Sometimes I go bonkers when a friend is making what I regard as a poor choice (like in a relationship -- how can this person not realize that getting back together with their ex is a terrible idea?!?!?!) and I have this idea that I can make them understand and then they'll get it and make a better decision. But that's not right. I don't get to control them or help them or save them. The antidote to this is cultivating empathy and respect them for them as autonomous people.
This is a contagious disease that people have varying levels of information about. Most have none.
This is just ... not true. You are wrong. I'm sorry, but you are wrong. People have lots of information and are making different choices. You need to figure out a way to take a deep breath and step back and realize this just isn't true. And even if it were true: you can't change it. If you work on managing your anxiety and emotions, you might find that you are less invested in managing others' behavior.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:53 PM on November 29, 2022 [32 favorites]
I am still super cautious, and so are some of my friends (and some of my friends are in "we'd like to be more cautious than we are, but we have kids in school and there's a limit to what we can control here.")
People do make tons of choices that I wouldn't choose in all areas of my life, but I am mostly drawing the line at "do your choices potentially directly affect me?" If yes, then we negotiate accordingly, or I say I am not doing that thing with that person in those conditions.
I am pretty open and frank about the fact that post-viral issues in 2009-2010 completely cratered my life for a good while, and I do not want to do that again. (And that long Covid, in specific, would likely be worse for me, because of other medical history, than that was.) A weird silver lining of that is that most of my social life has been online for a decade, my friends all understand I can't go out and do things that involve leaving the house (other than work) super reliably, and we have found other stuff that works for us that is very useful in pandemic mode.
I advocate where I can for measures that are going to keep me safer. Work is now mask optional, but I am splitting my office with someone who also needs to be extra careful. (We're there on different days, but it means both of us can have a closed space with good filtering/ventilation that no on else is in unmasked.) Our boss has been great about that kind of support.
I sent an email today about the workplace holiday party (and specifically that there's no option for people who need to be more cautious - and that people's risk calculations may be different for "job" and "optional social thing bringing people together across the organization")
None of it's enough. None of it solves one particular piece of my life (my coven, which has been meeting virtually, but I still do not have a good answer to "eight people most of whom have very public-facing interactive jobs, in my living room for a couple of hours") But mostly it's okay on a day to day basis.
posted by jenettsilver at 1:54 PM on November 29, 2022
People do make tons of choices that I wouldn't choose in all areas of my life, but I am mostly drawing the line at "do your choices potentially directly affect me?" If yes, then we negotiate accordingly, or I say I am not doing that thing with that person in those conditions.
I am pretty open and frank about the fact that post-viral issues in 2009-2010 completely cratered my life for a good while, and I do not want to do that again. (And that long Covid, in specific, would likely be worse for me, because of other medical history, than that was.) A weird silver lining of that is that most of my social life has been online for a decade, my friends all understand I can't go out and do things that involve leaving the house (other than work) super reliably, and we have found other stuff that works for us that is very useful in pandemic mode.
I advocate where I can for measures that are going to keep me safer. Work is now mask optional, but I am splitting my office with someone who also needs to be extra careful. (We're there on different days, but it means both of us can have a closed space with good filtering/ventilation that no on else is in unmasked.) Our boss has been great about that kind of support.
I sent an email today about the workplace holiday party (and specifically that there's no option for people who need to be more cautious - and that people's risk calculations may be different for "job" and "optional social thing bringing people together across the organization")
None of it's enough. None of it solves one particular piece of my life (my coven, which has been meeting virtually, but I still do not have a good answer to "eight people most of whom have very public-facing interactive jobs, in my living room for a couple of hours") But mostly it's okay on a day to day basis.
posted by jenettsilver at 1:54 PM on November 29, 2022
Response by poster: I'm sorry for asking. I didn't make myself clear. I don't give two shits about control. I want people I like to be healthy and happy. I want to be able to eat inside a building. I WANT to be wrong about all of this. That's all.
posted by bleep at 1:55 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by bleep at 1:55 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
Sorry, I should have previewed. Your answers are basically my own. I think the only other thing I'd add is that if I think someone isn't aware of something, I'd mention "Oh, I just heard the CDC said XX" (or whatever). That relieves a little internal pressure for me and if they want to know more, they'll let me know. They may have already heard it, but if they didn't I've e given them a chance to find out more.
posted by ghost phoneme at 1:56 PM on November 29, 2022
posted by ghost phoneme at 1:56 PM on November 29, 2022
Response by poster: I specifically asked that people not answer if they're not going through this, and clearly that wasn't respected.
posted by bleep at 1:59 PM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by bleep at 1:59 PM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
But we're all still going through this!
The vaccines and boosters are what reduce my anxiety about being around people -- it's the best protection I know of, for looking out for oneself in these times. And I continue masking whenever possible (but not with those K95s, they don't allow enough oxygen to pass into my asthmatic lungs). I can still get quite anxious about the plague, although now, I know a lot of people who've had it, with very mild symptoms; but I know of very few sufferers (like, one) of Long Covid.
posted by Rash at 2:00 PM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
The vaccines and boosters are what reduce my anxiety about being around people -- it's the best protection I know of, for looking out for oneself in these times. And I continue masking whenever possible (but not with those K95s, they don't allow enough oxygen to pass into my asthmatic lungs). I can still get quite anxious about the plague, although now, I know a lot of people who've had it, with very mild symptoms; but I know of very few sufferers (like, one) of Long Covid.
posted by Rash at 2:00 PM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Do you what is a super dangerous thing that Americans do all the time? Drive. Driving in cars is so dangerous. Traffic deaths are up a whole lot in the US, and yet people happily get in their cars everyday.
Driving in a car is not contagious.
posted by bleep at 2:01 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
Driving in a car is not contagious.
posted by bleep at 2:01 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm not going through what you're feeling with covid, but I go through it every day with cars. Tolerating that level of
danger seems like a collective psychosis to me. But people's day to day response — to get in a car and drive, putting me and my family at risk — is understandable given there are no other options.
"Endemic" means "steady state", not "safe". The common cold is endemic, but so is ebola. This hints at a premise you start from that many other people simply don't accept. I think that yes, a lot of people have concluded that this is "just what life will be, forever". They have decided that they have no choice but to live with increased risk.
posted by caek at 2:03 PM on November 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
danger seems like a collective psychosis to me. But people's day to day response — to get in a car and drive, putting me and my family at risk — is understandable given there are no other options.
"Endemic" means "steady state", not "safe". The common cold is endemic, but so is ebola. This hints at a premise you start from that many other people simply don't accept. I think that yes, a lot of people have concluded that this is "just what life will be, forever". They have decided that they have no choice but to live with increased risk.
posted by caek at 2:03 PM on November 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
Oh, I'm with you, it pisses me off to see 99% of the world with free faces and not caring (she says, having been exposed to covid again). BUT THERE'S FUCKALL YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. Literally everyone has given up. The government won't. People would rather get sick than hide their faces. This situation is never going to get better than it is short of some kind of scientific miracle happening. The general population has decided that they wanna go back to normal NO MATTER WHAT THE COST because head in the sand is better than mask on the face and being a shut-in. Frankly, we all have no choice but to live with increased risk no matter what, whether or not we take precautions, because there is no hope and this isn't gonna get better.
I still have a mask on 90% of the time, mind you. I'm with you on this. But we are so vastly outnumbered that there's nothing we can do but protect ourselves. All you're going to do is get into fights with people and they aren't going to listen to you if you do speak up. Why waste your time, breath and energy on trying to change minds that can't be changed? You can lose the argument fast (by not having it or not saying much) or you can lose it slow (by arguing) but YOU WILL LOSE. There's no point in fighting. You can't win.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:09 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
I still have a mask on 90% of the time, mind you. I'm with you on this. But we are so vastly outnumbered that there's nothing we can do but protect ourselves. All you're going to do is get into fights with people and they aren't going to listen to you if you do speak up. Why waste your time, breath and energy on trying to change minds that can't be changed? You can lose the argument fast (by not having it or not saying much) or you can lose it slow (by arguing) but YOU WILL LOSE. There's no point in fighting. You can't win.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:09 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
I sympathize completely. I get through it by passive aggressively reposting articles and memes and commentary about people acting like life is normal even in communities where even the lax revised CDC metrics say we’re fucked. I protect myself as much as I can and mostly surround myself with people who do the same. (I am lucky to have worked fully remote before, during, and “after” pandemic.) I accept the additional risk I can’t control with a kid in preschool, but don’t take on additional risk as if the barn door is already open. I still eat outdoors and count myself lucky to live in a community that still supports that. I talk to people about risk perception fallacies and cost-benefit calculations. I tell people before carpooling who I think will be reasonable, “Just so you know, I’ll be wearing a mask since everyone I see regularly is either immunosuppressed, elderly, or a toddler. But that doesn’t mean you have to!” and I think it helps them practice empathy and consider mutual defense against infection. Against my better angels I smirk at the newly-uncautious being stricken with COVID brain fog after probably multiple unconfirmed infections and count myself lucky that that’s not me.
That’s what I do.
posted by supercres at 2:19 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
That’s what I do.
posted by supercres at 2:19 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
Is anyone else having to work hard on suppressing their instincts to tell the truth about what's going on?
Sometimes, yes? But you don't want advice for dealing with this, is that correct? This is a yes or no question?
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:19 PM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
Sometimes, yes? But you don't want advice for dealing with this, is that correct? This is a yes or no question?
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:19 PM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
Hey bleep! I see the answers here are not landing as hoped. I'm not sure others can help - I'm not totally clear what would be most helpful?
I feel a lot of sadness about preventable death, injury and disease myself. About 110 people died a day of auto crashes in the US last year - a completely preventable number of deaths - other countries are having falling rates of auto deaths by redesigning cars and roads. But we as a country choose to let people come to harm. I feel quite similar about COVID. Poor public health measures are a huge driver of death and disease. I feel that having some sickness and death from COVID is actually less preventable from cars, but it is still very tragic and upsetting.
I think masking in particular is an extremely emotionally and politically laden activity that has many different meanings to different people now. I still mask when indoors and am lucky to work somewhere where that is required but I also recognize that there is an emotional and social meaning to the behavior beyond solely it's epidemiological value.
All this is to say, that what helps me (somewhat) when I see preventable harms is to have some compassion and empathy for the way these issues are differently charged for different people.
But I can see that might not be helpful to you
So maybe what would be helpful is thinking to yourself, what are some things that would provide you relief and ease, given the extended nature of this crisis we're all living through?
posted by latkes at 2:21 PM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
I feel a lot of sadness about preventable death, injury and disease myself. About 110 people died a day of auto crashes in the US last year - a completely preventable number of deaths - other countries are having falling rates of auto deaths by redesigning cars and roads. But we as a country choose to let people come to harm. I feel quite similar about COVID. Poor public health measures are a huge driver of death and disease. I feel that having some sickness and death from COVID is actually less preventable from cars, but it is still very tragic and upsetting.
I think masking in particular is an extremely emotionally and politically laden activity that has many different meanings to different people now. I still mask when indoors and am lucky to work somewhere where that is required but I also recognize that there is an emotional and social meaning to the behavior beyond solely it's epidemiological value.
All this is to say, that what helps me (somewhat) when I see preventable harms is to have some compassion and empathy for the way these issues are differently charged for different people.
But I can see that might not be helpful to you
So maybe what would be helpful is thinking to yourself, what are some things that would provide you relief and ease, given the extended nature of this crisis we're all living through?
posted by latkes at 2:21 PM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
I specifically asked that people not answer if they're not going through this, and clearly that wasn't respected.
Might be worth reflecting on why you are so focused on controlling the responses of folks here who disagree with your premise. Seems to reflect the same issue you are having at work.
People get to be different. The only thing you can manage is your emotions and your behavior and your reactions. That’s it.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:22 PM on November 29, 2022 [26 favorites]
Might be worth reflecting on why you are so focused on controlling the responses of folks here who disagree with your premise. Seems to reflect the same issue you are having at work.
People get to be different. The only thing you can manage is your emotions and your behavior and your reactions. That’s it.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:22 PM on November 29, 2022 [26 favorites]
Driving in a car is not contagious.
But your question is not framed around your concern for the spread of covid, you are framing it around trying to cope with feeling anxious about people "putting themselves at unnecessary risk" and becoming sick and disabled. Exploring why you do *not* feel anxious observing, for instance, people driving cars (or riding in one yourself, if you do so regularly) is a perfectly reasonable thing to suggest you interrogate here if this is indeed actually the case, as driving - and a slew of other activities mentioned here - also pose tons of extremely high life-impairing/fatal risks.
(And yeah, it does suck to add yet another thing to the list of "stuff that has a chance of harming us" to the list of other horrible things out there no doubt!)
posted by windbox at 2:24 PM on November 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
But your question is not framed around your concern for the spread of covid, you are framing it around trying to cope with feeling anxious about people "putting themselves at unnecessary risk" and becoming sick and disabled. Exploring why you do *not* feel anxious observing, for instance, people driving cars (or riding in one yourself, if you do so regularly) is a perfectly reasonable thing to suggest you interrogate here if this is indeed actually the case, as driving - and a slew of other activities mentioned here - also pose tons of extremely high life-impairing/fatal risks.
(And yeah, it does suck to add yet another thing to the list of "stuff that has a chance of harming us" to the list of other horrible things out there no doubt!)
posted by windbox at 2:24 PM on November 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
Oh wow. I bet many of these responses are heightening your anxiety and frustration. You specifically asked people to respond who experience the world the way you do, and a bunch of people have responded to say that they don't experience the world the way you do, you are misguided to experience the world the way you do, and you should just stop caring. What an amazing illustration of the problem here!
I do experience the world the way you do. I read the research about COVID causing brain damage, lung damage, T cell damage, erectile dysfunction, low sperm count, diabetes, strokes, etc etc etc. The adults in our house don't spend time indoors with other people. Our kids are masked at school, and sending them in person feels like a scary but necessary risk for us. We have had two professional haircuts - outdoors and masked - since COVID began. We think of COVID like polio - with an acute phase that is often benign and a long phase that is often life-altering....but with less effective vaccines available. We are doing everything we can to avoid getting it.
It does feel like a lot of people don't understand the risk. Spending time with folks in the disability community really helps - I think you'll find that's the group best educated about the risks and most cynical about our society's current response.
As for the rest of the world....I try to educate people who are curious. I try to remember that I have limited control and it's not my job to save everyone. I try to protect the people I can. I am sometimes consumed with rage or sadness. I donate to scientists researching solutions. It is exhausting. I wish I had a better answer for you, but at least I can tell you that you're not alone.
posted by equipoise at 2:44 PM on November 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
I do experience the world the way you do. I read the research about COVID causing brain damage, lung damage, T cell damage, erectile dysfunction, low sperm count, diabetes, strokes, etc etc etc. The adults in our house don't spend time indoors with other people. Our kids are masked at school, and sending them in person feels like a scary but necessary risk for us. We have had two professional haircuts - outdoors and masked - since COVID began. We think of COVID like polio - with an acute phase that is often benign and a long phase that is often life-altering....but with less effective vaccines available. We are doing everything we can to avoid getting it.
It does feel like a lot of people don't understand the risk. Spending time with folks in the disability community really helps - I think you'll find that's the group best educated about the risks and most cynical about our society's current response.
As for the rest of the world....I try to educate people who are curious. I try to remember that I have limited control and it's not my job to save everyone. I try to protect the people I can. I am sometimes consumed with rage or sadness. I donate to scientists researching solutions. It is exhausting. I wish I had a better answer for you, but at least I can tell you that you're not alone.
posted by equipoise at 2:44 PM on November 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments removed - please try to respect the guidelines the OP outlined.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:45 PM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:45 PM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
I had to bite my tongue recently when an elderly relative who's at very high risk started going to restaurants, etc. But they've been careful until now, and I *know* that they're aware of the risk. Yes, some people aren't, for sure. But I think you have to tell yourself that your coworkers are smart enough to make these choices for themselves, and keep telling yourself that until you believe it.
posted by pinochiette at 2:46 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by pinochiette at 2:46 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think I get it, so let me just blather a bit and hope it helps you some.
My daughter died because we didn't have enough intervention at her birth. For at least 3 years, I lurked on forums where women were encouraging each other to go for home births or hire natural midwives or hide their pregnancies to avoid the interventions that I wished desperately I had been able to have. I felt like an alien there and I wanted to shake people.
And honestly, I still do sometimes.
However my heightened emotion and engagement around it was a response to trauma, pure and simple. My feeling that I had special information while a little true, was not really super true. And statistically, most women who made what I considered to be risky choices would end up okay. The amount that I was engaged in their choices -- all silently -- was really unhealthy for me and wasn't helping anyone.
A few years later, at work, I had a coworker who was also very into the whole natural birth thing and she went flying past her due date blithely assured that her body would know what to do. I wanted to shake her. But I held my tongue, because commenting on people's reproductive choices at work is just NOT ok. Mostly. I made one comment, phrased that I was really worried for her and her baby. She blew it off.
And...her baby was a stillbirth. I felt guilty about it, but I also realized that...we had much more in common than we had different, in that while she made different choices, she also was a victim of the way we approach birth these days. (It is very like Covid in that we no longer recognize that some of the "bad interventions" that people consider overused and a symptom of terrible Western medicine still...save lives.)
What I ended up doing for her, instead of saving her baby -- something I still wish I could have done for her, but was not actually on me, a bystander to her medical care -- was sharing her grief, the same as mine.
And...she asked me a very personal question about how I managed to step back into the fear and have my two next children, and I answered that question as honestly as I could, and that answer informed some of her future choices and she went on to have a very healthy baby.
And we shared that joy as well.
If I had raged at her, I don't think she would have accepted my support. Maybe she would have listened but...I don't think so. She had all the same information I would have given her, just that i would have delivered it with more emotion. Also, she didn't do anything wrong. Statistically she was still an outlier.
Endemic doesn't mean that a disease is okay. It means that as a society we have accepted the damage that the disease will do.
Malaria. Influenza. Epstein-Barr. I agree with you that we should not be there on some levels but...here we are. Better than the Black Plague, worse than SARS-1 or Ebola.
So...here you are.
You're not responsible for saving your coworkers, or the world. You can contribute, sure, but isn't that why you are working remotely? Are you working remotely and preserving your health and not spreading Covid so that you can experience horrific anxiety and shame?
Or are you working remotely and preserving your health so that you can live?
Maybe your role here will be to preserve your joy, not your rage. It's very hard to get from here to there; I don't think any of us quite see a path to it yet. But it's okay to let go of the idea that only by saying the exact right thing at the exact right time can you impact any outcome.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:53 PM on November 29, 2022 [46 favorites]
My daughter died because we didn't have enough intervention at her birth. For at least 3 years, I lurked on forums where women were encouraging each other to go for home births or hire natural midwives or hide their pregnancies to avoid the interventions that I wished desperately I had been able to have. I felt like an alien there and I wanted to shake people.
And honestly, I still do sometimes.
However my heightened emotion and engagement around it was a response to trauma, pure and simple. My feeling that I had special information while a little true, was not really super true. And statistically, most women who made what I considered to be risky choices would end up okay. The amount that I was engaged in their choices -- all silently -- was really unhealthy for me and wasn't helping anyone.
A few years later, at work, I had a coworker who was also very into the whole natural birth thing and she went flying past her due date blithely assured that her body would know what to do. I wanted to shake her. But I held my tongue, because commenting on people's reproductive choices at work is just NOT ok. Mostly. I made one comment, phrased that I was really worried for her and her baby. She blew it off.
And...her baby was a stillbirth. I felt guilty about it, but I also realized that...we had much more in common than we had different, in that while she made different choices, she also was a victim of the way we approach birth these days. (It is very like Covid in that we no longer recognize that some of the "bad interventions" that people consider overused and a symptom of terrible Western medicine still...save lives.)
What I ended up doing for her, instead of saving her baby -- something I still wish I could have done for her, but was not actually on me, a bystander to her medical care -- was sharing her grief, the same as mine.
And...she asked me a very personal question about how I managed to step back into the fear and have my two next children, and I answered that question as honestly as I could, and that answer informed some of her future choices and she went on to have a very healthy baby.
And we shared that joy as well.
If I had raged at her, I don't think she would have accepted my support. Maybe she would have listened but...I don't think so. She had all the same information I would have given her, just that i would have delivered it with more emotion. Also, she didn't do anything wrong. Statistically she was still an outlier.
Endemic doesn't mean that a disease is okay. It means that as a society we have accepted the damage that the disease will do.
Malaria. Influenza. Epstein-Barr. I agree with you that we should not be there on some levels but...here we are. Better than the Black Plague, worse than SARS-1 or Ebola.
So...here you are.
You're not responsible for saving your coworkers, or the world. You can contribute, sure, but isn't that why you are working remotely? Are you working remotely and preserving your health and not spreading Covid so that you can experience horrific anxiety and shame?
Or are you working remotely and preserving your health so that you can live?
Maybe your role here will be to preserve your joy, not your rage. It's very hard to get from here to there; I don't think any of us quite see a path to it yet. But it's okay to let go of the idea that only by saying the exact right thing at the exact right time can you impact any outcome.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:53 PM on November 29, 2022 [46 favorites]
I’ve tried to think of people who view COVID risk differently than I do as belonging to another religion. I try to not proselytize my “religion” and I try to avoid criticizing their “religion.”
This doesn’t always work.
Sending you distanced, masked hugs.
posted by sciencegeek at 3:13 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
This doesn’t always work.
Sending you distanced, masked hugs.
posted by sciencegeek at 3:13 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
I haven’t read all the comments, but I read a few of your responses. I will say that I mostly felt like you until about 6 months ago which was a result of two things. Though my husband and I had pretty much stayed home, or only went out in masks (canceled family christmases etc) we did have our wedding in April just some time after we started seeing more vaccinated breakthrough cases. We still had the wedding. Despite requiring everyone to be vaccinated, asking everyone to test ahead of time, and providing masks (few to none used them), someone developed symptoms Sunday morning and then tested positive and a total of 18/~120 people got COVID.
I believe I learned about it from AskMeta sometime later, but I eventually realized this was a “moral injury.” (I could be calling it the wrong thing). I felt disappointed in myself that I had put those I loved most in a situation where they became ill and spread it to their loved ones and community. It felt that all the time I had spent at home was a waste, that I had contributed to the problem, ignored the needs of the disability community and most of all, prioritized a fun time over the health and safety of others which felt contrary to my morals and values.
Eventually I came to terms with 2 things, 1 everyone there was a consenting adult who made their choices about the risks. I wasn’t responsible for their actions. They knew the risks and still attended. And 2, the real source of my anxiety was that I felt as if society was falling apart. That even though I had been “strict” with myself until then, and thought I prioritized community health and well being, maybe I didn’t. And if even I didn’t stand up to those standards- would anyone? Could anyone be less selfish?
For what it’s worth, my therapist already wasn’t a great match, and she wasn’t that helpful on the issue, so it’s a topic that you really need to screen for therapy to be useful.
I wouldn’t say that realizing i was scared of the downfall of humanity eased my anxiety per se, but that recognizing my own failing made me a bit more understanding of why others might make “bad” or “wrong” choices. Additionally, in the words of Fred Rogers “look for the helpers” has also been a kind of comfort.
I still wear my mask in public places, I rarely if ever eat inside a restaurant, etc etc. I work remotely and honestly we have such low exposures that we are far more at risk of getting COVID than giving it to someone when we do go out or make a “bad” choice.
I also continue to advocate for disability communities, as they continue to be hit hardest by COVID.
posted by raccoon409 at 3:18 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
I believe I learned about it from AskMeta sometime later, but I eventually realized this was a “moral injury.” (I could be calling it the wrong thing). I felt disappointed in myself that I had put those I loved most in a situation where they became ill and spread it to their loved ones and community. It felt that all the time I had spent at home was a waste, that I had contributed to the problem, ignored the needs of the disability community and most of all, prioritized a fun time over the health and safety of others which felt contrary to my morals and values.
Eventually I came to terms with 2 things, 1 everyone there was a consenting adult who made their choices about the risks. I wasn’t responsible for their actions. They knew the risks and still attended. And 2, the real source of my anxiety was that I felt as if society was falling apart. That even though I had been “strict” with myself until then, and thought I prioritized community health and well being, maybe I didn’t. And if even I didn’t stand up to those standards- would anyone? Could anyone be less selfish?
For what it’s worth, my therapist already wasn’t a great match, and she wasn’t that helpful on the issue, so it’s a topic that you really need to screen for therapy to be useful.
I wouldn’t say that realizing i was scared of the downfall of humanity eased my anxiety per se, but that recognizing my own failing made me a bit more understanding of why others might make “bad” or “wrong” choices. Additionally, in the words of Fred Rogers “look for the helpers” has also been a kind of comfort.
I still wear my mask in public places, I rarely if ever eat inside a restaurant, etc etc. I work remotely and honestly we have such low exposures that we are far more at risk of getting COVID than giving it to someone when we do go out or make a “bad” choice.
I also continue to advocate for disability communities, as they continue to be hit hardest by COVID.
posted by raccoon409 at 3:18 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I took air filter devices to work when called in (changed jobs when it became impossible to do so, I was ridiculed when I showed up masked on my last day by an unmasked antivaxxer).
I wear a mask 24/7 before and while visiting a few vulnerable people in my life, or when people visit me and just … slowly every day work on not catching this.
I’m often asked why and I simply state I’m vulnerable to this, even when they follow up with more nosy questions about my vax/boost status. And or that I’m to visit my vulnerable (more so than I) people soon.
posted by tilde at 1:18 PM on November 29, 2022