Is a stolen library book worth breaking up over?
November 28, 2022 12:18 PM Subscribe
I learned that my partner stole a book from the library and feels no remorse about it. I am not a religious person, but libraries are about as close to a sacred space in my heart as a space can be. Is this worth breaking up over?
We've been dating a year. I care very deeply about my partner and they have never wronged me in any way. They make space in their life to help friends and champion good causes that we both share as values.
Recently in a casual conversation my partner revealed that they stole a library book and feel no remorse about it. They were explicit as the conversation was about white lies, minor ethical quandaries, guilt, and remorse. This has really been bothering me. I know that in the grand scheme of things, a stolen library book is as close to nothing as to be rounded down to nothing in any serious consideration of infractions. What bothers me is that I consider libraries to be somewhat sacred-- one of the few institutions that very clearly does a public good, and can only do that good because of public trust. If my partner forgot to return a book and then moved out of state or even just kept the book out of some thrilling fascination with it as a stolen object (but felt some guilt and remorse), it would bother me less, but the fact that they stole it, were asked repeatedly to return it (and did not), do not feel remorse, and are in fact gleeful that they beat the system bothers me. Our values in this situation seem wildly different.
The relationship is still new enough that we do not really know each other in the deepest of ways. What I fear is this: that my partner champions good causes and is helpful to their friends, but that the goodness is not grounded. It isn't built on a solid foundation, but can shift based on mood or situation.
Also: libraries are just awesome and fucking with one is like kicking a dog. It's just a massive turn off. The one tempering fact (maybe) is that it might have been their high school library-- high schools tend to be pretty horrible, so a high school library could easily be dirtied by association, and while I still don't condone it I feel slightly better about the idea of them saying, "Fuck this school, I'm keeping this book." I think I'd still like to think they'd have some remorse, though. Other kids in that school might need what that book offers, and there is no guarantee the library will replace it.
I know that ultimately I am the arbiter of what bothers me and how much, but I want to question the MeFi crowd for feedback: am I over reacting if I break up over this? (It wouldn't be ONLY over this, but I've felt a bit "on the fence" about this relationship and this is pushing me strongly into the negative direction.)
We've been dating a year. I care very deeply about my partner and they have never wronged me in any way. They make space in their life to help friends and champion good causes that we both share as values.
Recently in a casual conversation my partner revealed that they stole a library book and feel no remorse about it. They were explicit as the conversation was about white lies, minor ethical quandaries, guilt, and remorse. This has really been bothering me. I know that in the grand scheme of things, a stolen library book is as close to nothing as to be rounded down to nothing in any serious consideration of infractions. What bothers me is that I consider libraries to be somewhat sacred-- one of the few institutions that very clearly does a public good, and can only do that good because of public trust. If my partner forgot to return a book and then moved out of state or even just kept the book out of some thrilling fascination with it as a stolen object (but felt some guilt and remorse), it would bother me less, but the fact that they stole it, were asked repeatedly to return it (and did not), do not feel remorse, and are in fact gleeful that they beat the system bothers me. Our values in this situation seem wildly different.
The relationship is still new enough that we do not really know each other in the deepest of ways. What I fear is this: that my partner champions good causes and is helpful to their friends, but that the goodness is not grounded. It isn't built on a solid foundation, but can shift based on mood or situation.
Also: libraries are just awesome and fucking with one is like kicking a dog. It's just a massive turn off. The one tempering fact (maybe) is that it might have been their high school library-- high schools tend to be pretty horrible, so a high school library could easily be dirtied by association, and while I still don't condone it I feel slightly better about the idea of them saying, "Fuck this school, I'm keeping this book." I think I'd still like to think they'd have some remorse, though. Other kids in that school might need what that book offers, and there is no guarantee the library will replace it.
I know that ultimately I am the arbiter of what bothers me and how much, but I want to question the MeFi crowd for feedback: am I over reacting if I break up over this? (It wouldn't be ONLY over this, but I've felt a bit "on the fence" about this relationship and this is pushing me strongly into the negative direction.)
Yes, if this bothers you, you have every right to break up over it.
It isn't a large thing in the grand scheme of things, but if the harbenger of things to ocme troubles you, by all means, listen and act accordingly.
posted by Alensin at 12:24 PM on November 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
It isn't a large thing in the grand scheme of things, but if the harbenger of things to ocme troubles you, by all means, listen and act accordingly.
posted by Alensin at 12:24 PM on November 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
It depends on I think if this was like "Here is my one vice: I once stole a book" or it's like "I do tons of unthinking shit on the regular". Everyone needs a way to act out once in awhile, for balance. This is the least bad version of that there could be.
posted by bleep at 12:26 PM on November 28, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by bleep at 12:26 PM on November 28, 2022 [14 favorites]
I mean, I think it's the feeling glee about getting one over on a public utility as you pointed out. And it's... not hard to steal a library book. It's not like a grand accomplishment against The Man. He didn't like, get 10 of his buddies and break into a casino vault. That may be something to boast about. He just didn't return a book. Literally kid-stuff in terms of theft. And for what?
I think it's valid if you don't want to continue this relationship. I would find this childish and gross.
posted by Crystalinne at 12:28 PM on November 28, 2022 [36 favorites]
I think it's valid if you don't want to continue this relationship. I would find this childish and gross.
posted by Crystalinne at 12:28 PM on November 28, 2022 [36 favorites]
I think there are two different issues here: one is whether his attitude towards the library book is indicative of a larger moral issue. I would certainly be concerned about their values system when they decided not to return it after being asked repeatedly and being gleeful about beating the system. I wonder how much this same attitude applies to other parts of life such as running red lights or paying taxes.
Second, they have a very different relationship with libraries than you do. I wonder what would happen if you tried to explain how you feel about libraries. Could they respect how important libraries are to you? Would that conversation maybe open up the possibility of a different perspective in their own view of libraries? Can you listen to what libraries mean to them? Are you open to the idea that different people have different experiences of libraries? This is more of a relationship respect issue than a values issue but it will predict how you might fare as a couple around other important disagreements in the future.
posted by metahawk at 12:30 PM on November 28, 2022 [12 favorites]
Second, they have a very different relationship with libraries than you do. I wonder what would happen if you tried to explain how you feel about libraries. Could they respect how important libraries are to you? Would that conversation maybe open up the possibility of a different perspective in their own view of libraries? Can you listen to what libraries mean to them? Are you open to the idea that different people have different experiences of libraries? This is more of a relationship respect issue than a values issue but it will predict how you might fare as a couple around other important disagreements in the future.
posted by metahawk at 12:30 PM on November 28, 2022 [12 favorites]
I think context might make a difference, too? There's a difference between "I maliciously broke and entered in order to steal this book" (or even "I stole this book on a dare and don't feel bad about it" and, for instance, "Once when I was 20 and broke, I forgot to return this one book for so long that the fine was like $90 I didn't have and there was no book return outside the library and I couldn't face the librarian so I buried the book in a box under my bed and forgot about it until I moved away five years later..."
(why yes that scenario DOES sound oddly specific, now that you mention it...)
posted by invincible summer at 12:31 PM on November 28, 2022 [38 favorites]
(why yes that scenario DOES sound oddly specific, now that you mention it...)
posted by invincible summer at 12:31 PM on November 28, 2022 [38 favorites]
just reiterate the oft given MeFi advice - you don't need a reason to break up with someone. "This isn't what I really want" is sufficient, even if they are a perfectly nice person.
posted by metahawk at 12:32 PM on November 28, 2022 [27 favorites]
posted by metahawk at 12:32 PM on November 28, 2022 [27 favorites]
I don't think breaking up over this is overreacting. Character matters.
(My answer would be different if he felt remorse.)
posted by FencingGal at 12:33 PM on November 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
(My answer would be different if he felt remorse.)
posted by FencingGal at 12:33 PM on November 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
It sounds like this isn't about the theft at all--if he stole a book from a Barnes and Noble it seems like you'd scarcely care. It's about how he thinks about institutions, and you've just learned that you need a partner to feel as passionately as you do about certain institutions.
I have no particular emotional attachment to libraries; I recognize them as a public good and wish, abstractly, for them to thrive, but I never use them and cannot imagine being angry that someone had stolen a book from them back in high school. (Also, for me, high school is an entire lifetime ago, and from my crotchety old age I regard high schoolers as essentially Very Large Embryos who can't be held responsible for much of anything short of violence.) But in general I have found that Library People is an umbrella term for a pretty complex system of values, which should be honored! If your partner doesn't share that system of values there's no doubt it will come up in other ways down the line.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:36 PM on November 28, 2022 [16 favorites]
I have no particular emotional attachment to libraries; I recognize them as a public good and wish, abstractly, for them to thrive, but I never use them and cannot imagine being angry that someone had stolen a book from them back in high school. (Also, for me, high school is an entire lifetime ago, and from my crotchety old age I regard high schoolers as essentially Very Large Embryos who can't be held responsible for much of anything short of violence.) But in general I have found that Library People is an umbrella term for a pretty complex system of values, which should be honored! If your partner doesn't share that system of values there's no doubt it will come up in other ways down the line.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:36 PM on November 28, 2022 [16 favorites]
I think information is conveyed by the fact that you're asking MeFi and not asking your partner if you can talk about the library book thing a bit more. It sounds like you don't know a lot of the details, didn't ask in the moment, and have generally had it given what you know of this person.
It's fine to break up, you don't need A Reason.
posted by momus_window at 12:38 PM on November 28, 2022 [11 favorites]
It's fine to break up, you don't need A Reason.
posted by momus_window at 12:38 PM on November 28, 2022 [11 favorites]
(er to clarify: if you have Library People values you should honor and cherish that as part of yourself, and act according to them. And other people should respect that those are your values and important to you, even if the other people don't share them.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:38 PM on November 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:38 PM on November 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
It would be overreacting if you break up over this without talking with them about it first.
Your values otherwise align, so I also think that, for your SO, a high school library book differs from a public library book and that difference is somehow highly significant for them. (How long ago was high school? Would the school have replaced the book with the current version?) But you've been on the fence in this year-long relationship, so only you know if this is last-straw matter.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:39 PM on November 28, 2022 [8 favorites]
Your values otherwise align, so I also think that, for your SO, a high school library book differs from a public library book and that difference is somehow highly significant for them. (How long ago was high school? Would the school have replaced the book with the current version?) But you've been on the fence in this year-long relationship, so only you know if this is last-straw matter.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:39 PM on November 28, 2022 [8 favorites]
You're allowed to "overreact." Wee-oo Wee-woo it's the over-reaction police coming to get you. Better run! It's like when you're accused of hypocrisy. It's like, yep! Shrug Emoji!
posted by everythings_interrelated at 12:41 PM on November 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by everythings_interrelated at 12:41 PM on November 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
i mean, if this was something they did when they were 17 and you're in your 40s now, i would let that slide. most of us did shitty stuff when we were 17. if they did this last week at 35 and are crowing about it now, that's weird.
but repeating others, you can break up for any reason or no reason.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 12:42 PM on November 28, 2022 [23 favorites]
but repeating others, you can break up for any reason or no reason.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 12:42 PM on November 28, 2022 [23 favorites]
My friend dumped a girl because she didn’t break sufficiently (ok, at all) to avoid a group of possums on the highway. Life is about knowing your values.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:47 PM on November 28, 2022 [16 favorites]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:47 PM on November 28, 2022 [16 favorites]
Yes, you can break up for any reason.
But also... how old are they now, and when did this happen? I can totally imagine having some glee over something I did when I was 16 that I wouldn't ever do now. Did they have a reason for stealing this particular book? I'm so curious about the motivation! Also, would it be different if the framing was that they stole it from their high school rather than from a library?
(And also... libraries are totally fallible because people are fallible and libraries are run by people. I'm a librarian and think libraries are the bees' knees. I also know that we fail, a lot, to live up to our values, in some pretty terrible ways. I can imagine, for example, someone taking some delight in stealing from a library where the librarian seemed cruel or judgmental or somesuch.)
posted by bluedaisy at 12:48 PM on November 28, 2022 [16 favorites]
But also... how old are they now, and when did this happen? I can totally imagine having some glee over something I did when I was 16 that I wouldn't ever do now. Did they have a reason for stealing this particular book? I'm so curious about the motivation! Also, would it be different if the framing was that they stole it from their high school rather than from a library?
(And also... libraries are totally fallible because people are fallible and libraries are run by people. I'm a librarian and think libraries are the bees' knees. I also know that we fail, a lot, to live up to our values, in some pretty terrible ways. I can imagine, for example, someone taking some delight in stealing from a library where the librarian seemed cruel or judgmental or somesuch.)
posted by bluedaisy at 12:48 PM on November 28, 2022 [16 favorites]
I...might break up with someone over a stolen library book if in fact they were repeatedly asked to return it and were "gleeful" that they did not have to.
If this were a book that they individually really needed, particularly a book that wasn't getting much use or a book they were pretty sure that the library would weed and by "gleeful" you mean "hooray, now I have a copy of this book which is very useful/important to me but not generally needed by others, and now it won't get weeded and tossed out", I might think differently. Like, I definitely encountered really old and unused books in the secondary stacks at my college library that I would gladly have stolen if I could because I was 100% certain that they would get tossed the next time they drew any attention.
If it's a regular book and they are thrilled to have defeated the library - the library! - yeah, it would probably be breakup time.
posted by Frowner at 12:52 PM on November 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
If this were a book that they individually really needed, particularly a book that wasn't getting much use or a book they were pretty sure that the library would weed and by "gleeful" you mean "hooray, now I have a copy of this book which is very useful/important to me but not generally needed by others, and now it won't get weeded and tossed out", I might think differently. Like, I definitely encountered really old and unused books in the secondary stacks at my college library that I would gladly have stolen if I could because I was 100% certain that they would get tossed the next time they drew any attention.
If it's a regular book and they are thrilled to have defeated the library - the library! - yeah, it would probably be breakup time.
posted by Frowner at 12:52 PM on November 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
I would say a lot depends on how many years it's been since high school, what the reasons were at the time, and how he feels about it now.
I'm not your partner but at the risk of forever tarnishing my metafilter reputation, I will admit that I stole library books - yes plural! - from a public library in middle school/possibly high school. I was addicted to reading and spent all my free time at the library reading, but needed to read at home too, and I had no income to buy books and wasn't allowed to check any books out because my parent would constantly use my card to take out books that were never returned and racked up huge fines. I would never do it now, obviously, but I'm not sure I feel huge amounts of remorse either. I was just a dumb kid and it doesn't really seem like the worst skeleton someone could have in their closet by a long shot. I'm not sure I agree with the concept that there are "good" people in the first place, but I don't think I'm unusually horrible, have never kicked a dog, and try not to be a jerk in my day to day life.
You can, of course, always break up for this or any other reason, or no reason at all.
posted by randomnity at 12:54 PM on November 28, 2022 [14 favorites]
I'm not your partner but at the risk of forever tarnishing my metafilter reputation, I will admit that I stole library books - yes plural! - from a public library in middle school/possibly high school. I was addicted to reading and spent all my free time at the library reading, but needed to read at home too, and I had no income to buy books and wasn't allowed to check any books out because my parent would constantly use my card to take out books that were never returned and racked up huge fines. I would never do it now, obviously, but I'm not sure I feel huge amounts of remorse either. I was just a dumb kid and it doesn't really seem like the worst skeleton someone could have in their closet by a long shot. I'm not sure I agree with the concept that there are "good" people in the first place, but I don't think I'm unusually horrible, have never kicked a dog, and try not to be a jerk in my day to day life.
You can, of course, always break up for this or any other reason, or no reason at all.
posted by randomnity at 12:54 PM on November 28, 2022 [14 favorites]
Sometimes an event or anecdote becomes symbolic to a person about what's wrong with their relationship. I have a few "divorce stories" I repeated that were superficially innocuous if somewhat insulting, but really symbolized some deep wrongs/things I couldn't compromise on in my relationship with my ex. (Things like, he didn't think of my likes when they were different to his, or he said things that were contemptuous about my skills/intellect, both of which really upset me.) I wonder if that's not what's happening here. It might be an "overreaction" to the story about the library book or the story about the library book might be a bellwether for other issues/problems/concerns in/about the relationship.
And yes, the Metafilter/life advice that you can break up with anyone for any reason is good. If you're not feeling it, stolen library book or not, feel free move on. No guilt!
posted by gentlyepigrams at 1:05 PM on November 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
And yes, the Metafilter/life advice that you can break up with anyone for any reason is good. If you're not feeling it, stolen library book or not, feel free move on. No guilt!
posted by gentlyepigrams at 1:05 PM on November 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
I relate to this so hard. I've dated people who skew fiscally conservative and for whom advancing your own self interest at any cost or in whatever way you can get away with is considered "winning", and they naturally and effortlessly just live their lives like this every day. They're probably good with money and maybe treat you well, but don't give a flying fuck about anything in society besides not getting in legal trouble and increasing their wealth. It's an insidiously cutthroat mentality which is extremely easy to get away with.
And yeah, it's also a huge turnoff.
I think this decision would hinge on whether he's been receptive to your upset feelings about this. Because ultimately, his actions are upsetting you, and the way he makes you feel is really important here. The crux of the issue, politics aside, is his disregard for something that means a lot to you. I dont think its too small of an issue to stick with. Especially if you are thinking of being with him longterm or having children.
Ultimately you need to respect and admire your partner as a person, otherwise what is even the point? I can't think of anything more demoralizing than being with someone who I can't admire or respect.
posted by winterportage at 1:05 PM on November 28, 2022 [8 favorites]
And yeah, it's also a huge turnoff.
I think this decision would hinge on whether he's been receptive to your upset feelings about this. Because ultimately, his actions are upsetting you, and the way he makes you feel is really important here. The crux of the issue, politics aside, is his disregard for something that means a lot to you. I dont think its too small of an issue to stick with. Especially if you are thinking of being with him longterm or having children.
Ultimately you need to respect and admire your partner as a person, otherwise what is even the point? I can't think of anything more demoralizing than being with someone who I can't admire or respect.
posted by winterportage at 1:05 PM on November 28, 2022 [8 favorites]
If you want to break up with this person, then absolutely break up with this person. That is a totally fine thing to do!
I think it’s great to respect public libraries. I do not think it’s reasonable to put this much weight on the transgression of stealing a library book. You can pay the library back or replace the copy (or whatever). If this is the greatest difference in value systems between you and your partner, you’re very, very well aligned.
You don’t need an excuse to break up, but the worry around this example has me concerned that true conflict (over values or major decisions) will be extremely difficult for you. I’d either break up because you just don’t want to be together or Id make a small donation to a library and be done with it.
posted by saltykitten at 1:22 PM on November 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
I think it’s great to respect public libraries. I do not think it’s reasonable to put this much weight on the transgression of stealing a library book. You can pay the library back or replace the copy (or whatever). If this is the greatest difference in value systems between you and your partner, you’re very, very well aligned.
You don’t need an excuse to break up, but the worry around this example has me concerned that true conflict (over values or major decisions) will be extremely difficult for you. I’d either break up because you just don’t want to be together or Id make a small donation to a library and be done with it.
posted by saltykitten at 1:22 PM on November 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
If you say they were asked repeatedly to return it, do you mean that they checked it out, and then just never brought it back? Personally (though I also love libraries), I don't think it's a big deal. But I agree with everyone saying that if you feel like you're looking for a reason to break up, go for it.
posted by pinochiette at 1:23 PM on November 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by pinochiette at 1:23 PM on November 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
What bothers me is that I consider libraries to be somewhat sacred
Then this is not a logical question but something approaching a religious one, so whether it's an "overreaction" by rational standards is meaningless. Your religious convictions can—and for most people who have them, almost necessarily do—affect your decision-making without first having to pass through logic.
posted by babelfish at 1:29 PM on November 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
Then this is not a logical question but something approaching a religious one, so whether it's an "overreaction" by rational standards is meaningless. Your religious convictions can—and for most people who have them, almost necessarily do—affect your decision-making without first having to pass through logic.
posted by babelfish at 1:29 PM on November 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
I am a librarian at a public library and there are many worse things patrons do than stealing a random book in my opinion. Like trying to defund the library or ban materials. We reorder material when it goes missing out of the budget. My library system forgives missing book charges after a set number of years. I stole Sweet Valley High #14 and never returned it when I was a kid. All this to say that the attitude that the library, as an institution that exists in the real world, is sanctified or holy or beyond reproach is not true amd may be worth seeing in less black and white terms. Maybe one of my coworkers, a nice white cisgender lady, was racist to him and that's why having the book feels good. We're not better than other places nor do we live up to our stated values at all times. Libraries are important but also not perfect.
posted by lizard music at 1:31 PM on November 28, 2022 [61 favorites]
posted by lizard music at 1:31 PM on November 28, 2022 [61 favorites]
It's the crowing about it that would strongly tempt me to jettison this person.
I should've broken up with somebody who told a hawhawhilarious story of a prank where some hockeymasked college dudes ran into a campus N.O.W. meeting brandishing roaring but, he stressed, chainless chainsaws. He wasn't part of the prank, himself and didn't know the perps, but he thought it was just the funniest thing ever and couldn't understand why I didn't think it was just the funniest thing ever. It would have saved me a ton of trouble had I just stood up and walked out instead of trying to explain that no, the fact that they took the chains off the chainsaws first so they only sounded like massmurder weapons does not make it harmless fun. Values clash = bad match = goodbye!
posted by Don Pepino at 1:34 PM on November 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
I should've broken up with somebody who told a hawhawhilarious story of a prank where some hockeymasked college dudes ran into a campus N.O.W. meeting brandishing roaring but, he stressed, chainless chainsaws. He wasn't part of the prank, himself and didn't know the perps, but he thought it was just the funniest thing ever and couldn't understand why I didn't think it was just the funniest thing ever. It would have saved me a ton of trouble had I just stood up and walked out instead of trying to explain that no, the fact that they took the chains off the chainsaws first so they only sounded like massmurder weapons does not make it harmless fun. Values clash = bad match = goodbye!
posted by Don Pepino at 1:34 PM on November 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
The high school part of this would be critical to my personal feelings. The feelings I have about my high school library has almost no relationship to how I feel about public libraries. That's not a logical position, but high school was certainly not a logical time. Your feelings about your school library are going to be largely determined by how you feel about your school in general, and that can really span a huge range.
I do think the sacredness of libraries to you may be coloring your feelings here too much — I suggest as others have that you have a larger discussion about your feelings about libraries and public benefits in general, but also hear from your partner about how they felt about high school, how they felt as a teen in general, and how that experience might be specific for them and not generalizable into "they don't care about libraries" or "they'll take advantage of any public benefit if they can get away with it".
posted by wemayfreeze at 1:39 PM on November 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
I do think the sacredness of libraries to you may be coloring your feelings here too much — I suggest as others have that you have a larger discussion about your feelings about libraries and public benefits in general, but also hear from your partner about how they felt about high school, how they felt as a teen in general, and how that experience might be specific for them and not generalizable into "they don't care about libraries" or "they'll take advantage of any public benefit if they can get away with it".
posted by wemayfreeze at 1:39 PM on November 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
You should follow up with them, like: that thing you said about the library book has been bothering me, can we talk some more about it?
Their answer will tell you what you need to know, far better than we can here.
posted by rd45 at 1:44 PM on November 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
Their answer will tell you what you need to know, far better than we can here.
posted by rd45 at 1:44 PM on November 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
I think this is a real (non gender specific) bitch eating crackers moment and you should break up with them because you want to.
posted by Pretty Good Talker at 1:48 PM on November 28, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by Pretty Good Talker at 1:48 PM on November 28, 2022 [11 favorites]
Character is everything in my opinion. I’d break up and never look back, and rejoice that the answer was so clear.
posted by asimplemouse at 1:57 PM on November 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by asimplemouse at 1:57 PM on November 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
Eh I would also like to hop in to say that if after a year you feel you don't really know them and are on the fence about them in general, one of two things is probably going on:
-you have been getting a lot of sub-rosa clues that this person isn't safe or good and so you've neither let them in nor dug too deeply into who they are; you should honor your gut and bail
OR
-you have some unresolved shit about vulnerability that is coming to a head because of the amount of time you've been together, and are looking for ways to put up protective walls or put a name to the fear you have of being hurt in a relationship; you can either cut bait and go to therapy or stay in the relationship and go to therapy, but either way, therapy.
Legit have no idea which one is going on here but unless y'all are fresh out of college I'd put money on it being one of those two.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:15 PM on November 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
-you have been getting a lot of sub-rosa clues that this person isn't safe or good and so you've neither let them in nor dug too deeply into who they are; you should honor your gut and bail
OR
-you have some unresolved shit about vulnerability that is coming to a head because of the amount of time you've been together, and are looking for ways to put up protective walls or put a name to the fear you have of being hurt in a relationship; you can either cut bait and go to therapy or stay in the relationship and go to therapy, but either way, therapy.
Legit have no idea which one is going on here but unless y'all are fresh out of college I'd put money on it being one of those two.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:15 PM on November 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
I would talk with them about it, say it's been bothering you and ask them about whether they still really feel like it's okay. I don't know if I'd necessarily bring up the libraries are sacred thing before you've really talked it out, because like you said what you want to see is how grounded their goodness is. And I think it's worth seeing how they react when asked to think about something like this - do they take it in stride and consider it seriously, do they get defensive at first but then think about it seriously, do they get defensive and stay there, do they just make light of the whole thing, etc.
I've done lots of things I was very pleased with myself for at the time and occasionally much later find myself realizing - often after having told the story to someone - that in many ways it actually wasn't a very good thing to do, or that the situation was probably much more complex than I realized at the time. That feeling of glee is often residual or just associated with the memory out of habit, and the question is whether it survives closer examination.
posted by trig at 2:17 PM on November 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
I've done lots of things I was very pleased with myself for at the time and occasionally much later find myself realizing - often after having told the story to someone - that in many ways it actually wasn't a very good thing to do, or that the situation was probably much more complex than I realized at the time. That feeling of glee is often residual or just associated with the memory out of habit, and the question is whether it survives closer examination.
posted by trig at 2:17 PM on November 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
but the fact that they stole it, were asked repeatedly to return it (and did not), do not feel remorse, and are in fact gleeful that they beat the system bothers me.
I feel like this is more than just one sacred library book here. Like I wasn't thrilled with putting in a food order for a friend of mine and then she was having a hard time and flaked and bailed on picking up the order (I thought this was jerky), but that was a one time shitty thing and not a pattern of behavior.
I probably wouldn't break up with someone over this alone (also see the above post about high school for why), but you seem to be indicating that you're considering breaking up with them for other reasons. And if they're behaving jerkily about it, do they behave like that over other things?
But yeah, you can break up with someone for any reason, including their high school library book or if you don't like their toenail polish choice.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:24 PM on November 28, 2022
I feel like this is more than just one sacred library book here. Like I wasn't thrilled with putting in a food order for a friend of mine and then she was having a hard time and flaked and bailed on picking up the order (I thought this was jerky), but that was a one time shitty thing and not a pattern of behavior.
I probably wouldn't break up with someone over this alone (also see the above post about high school for why), but you seem to be indicating that you're considering breaking up with them for other reasons. And if they're behaving jerkily about it, do they behave like that over other things?
But yeah, you can break up with someone for any reason, including their high school library book or if you don't like their toenail polish choice.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:24 PM on November 28, 2022
In the context of "should I break up?", the stolen book is irrelevant.
What's relevant is that you asked this question. Asking it is like flipping a coin to make a choice between two things. By the time the coin hits its apex, you know the answer you want. The side that lands up is irrelevant and only a fool bothers to even look. Ignore the advice in this thread and do what you know you wanted to do when you hit POST.
posted by dobbs at 2:44 PM on November 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
What's relevant is that you asked this question. Asking it is like flipping a coin to make a choice between two things. By the time the coin hits its apex, you know the answer you want. The side that lands up is irrelevant and only a fool bothers to even look. Ignore the advice in this thread and do what you know you wanted to do when you hit POST.
posted by dobbs at 2:44 PM on November 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
I remember the moment my crush evaporated when I saw him cheat at Lazer tag. (Somehow he'd made the gun one handed.) it was like suddenly a veil lifted and I saw him for the arrogant person he was.
On the other hand, my husband has hobbies that aren't for me (example- hunting) but our values more broadly line up. I'm wondering if I saw him cheating at Lazer tag, I'd probably still be disappointed but would want to have a conversation with him about it, he'd probably apologise.
So if this one incident is making you feel like breaking up, that's a sign worth exploring more than "is this a break-up-able offence"
posted by freethefeet at 2:44 PM on November 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
On the other hand, my husband has hobbies that aren't for me (example- hunting) but our values more broadly line up. I'm wondering if I saw him cheating at Lazer tag, I'd probably still be disappointed but would want to have a conversation with him about it, he'd probably apologise.
So if this one incident is making you feel like breaking up, that's a sign worth exploring more than "is this a break-up-able offence"
posted by freethefeet at 2:44 PM on November 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'm with the folks saying that I would need a bit more context here - what were their motivations? Were they poor and this was their favorite book in the world and 15 and it made sense at the time? Did they really hate the school, and so have the attitude of "Well, high school sucked, but at least I got this awesome book out of it"? Likewise, was their school well funded or was the school library operating on a shoestring budget? In short, as someone who does see libraries as approaching sacred, I can also imagine scenarios where I could see this as forgivable (like some which people have already mentioned doing themselves).
And yes, another key detail - how old is this person? Did this happen decades ago? Have they stolen any other library books since? Because if this is a one-off event that happened awhile ago, I'd say the fact they haven't done it again suggests that they actually don't think it's okay to steal library books, they just don't feel bad about the fact they did this once, many years ago.
But yes, if you're generally not feeling this relationship and this is just the final nail in the coffin, that's valid.
posted by coffeecat at 2:53 PM on November 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
And yes, another key detail - how old is this person? Did this happen decades ago? Have they stolen any other library books since? Because if this is a one-off event that happened awhile ago, I'd say the fact they haven't done it again suggests that they actually don't think it's okay to steal library books, they just don't feel bad about the fact they did this once, many years ago.
But yes, if you're generally not feeling this relationship and this is just the final nail in the coffin, that's valid.
posted by coffeecat at 2:53 PM on November 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think only you know whether this incident is indicative of an undeveloped ethical sense, or a one-off. It sounds like you, knowing your partner well, think it is indicative.
(to elaborate: a dear friend of mine, age 40something, for reasons that escape me completely, still thinks that it was funny and cool when he and his high school buddies stole a street sign that was... I don't remember, like the name of one of them, or the name of their club or their favorite band or whatever. I cringe a bit when the topic comes up, which it does every 10 years or so. But in every other respect he is an extremely fine person. The street sign thing was decades ago and more importantly it is an aberration for a person who for years has been trustworthy, moral, dependable and incredibly decent. So I just ignore it. Ask yourself what's true of your guy.)
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:57 PM on November 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
(to elaborate: a dear friend of mine, age 40something, for reasons that escape me completely, still thinks that it was funny and cool when he and his high school buddies stole a street sign that was... I don't remember, like the name of one of them, or the name of their club or their favorite band or whatever. I cringe a bit when the topic comes up, which it does every 10 years or so. But in every other respect he is an extremely fine person. The street sign thing was decades ago and more importantly it is an aberration for a person who for years has been trustworthy, moral, dependable and incredibly decent. So I just ignore it. Ask yourself what's true of your guy.)
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:57 PM on November 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Hi all, OP does not specify partner's gender, please use They/Them pronouns moving forward.
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 3:05 PM on November 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 3:05 PM on November 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
As a tipping-point thing, I think this is totally valid. You say it "may have been" high school, but if your partner was somehow gloating about this act of defiance I think it would have been critical to the narrative they were constructing to say it was a school he was rebelling against. As an after-the-fact story this would fly with me no better than bragging about not tipping at a restaurant because the food wasn't good, because you're ultimately bragging about inconveniencing someone who is probably not the machine you're trying to rage against and also a library is a ridiculous platform for rebellion unless it is censoring books.
It's just such an asshole thing to brag about! Like ooh, what a badass. It's pretty cringe. I'd wonder what was next.
If this person had been really impressive in other ways, I'd go back to them and give them one more chance to clarify. "Uh so, I just wanted to ask when you were talking about the book you didn't return to the library the other day? Are you, like, proud of that? What was my takeaway supposed to be there?" I mean, maybe they left out a critical detail, like something that would turn this story from "..oh?" to "OH!" It's probably worth offering that last chance, and maybe one more opportunity for them to say, "Actually that was a weird story and I'm sorry I told it, I know it doesn't reflect terribly well on me" OR "yeeahhh, fuck libraries, I hate the way they're always letting poor people read books" and you can very firmly nope out knowing your instincts were trying to tell you something very important.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:30 PM on November 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's just such an asshole thing to brag about! Like ooh, what a badass. It's pretty cringe. I'd wonder what was next.
If this person had been really impressive in other ways, I'd go back to them and give them one more chance to clarify. "Uh so, I just wanted to ask when you were talking about the book you didn't return to the library the other day? Are you, like, proud of that? What was my takeaway supposed to be there?" I mean, maybe they left out a critical detail, like something that would turn this story from "..oh?" to "OH!" It's probably worth offering that last chance, and maybe one more opportunity for them to say, "Actually that was a weird story and I'm sorry I told it, I know it doesn't reflect terribly well on me" OR "yeeahhh, fuck libraries, I hate the way they're always letting poor people read books" and you can very firmly nope out knowing your instincts were trying to tell you something very important.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:30 PM on November 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
I think this is way more about your general feelings for this person than it is about the ethics of stealing a library book. When someone you really like confesses a bad act, there are lots of possible reactions. You can have a strange feeling of relief to learn that they're flawed in way you can relate to. You can find them amusingly mischievous. You can feel affectionate befuddlement that this person you love contains multitudes. You can feel concerned and like you want to talk this out and understand it because it doesn't fit with your understanding of who they are. But you don't generally feel like asking other people if it's reasonable to break up with them over it.
posted by HotToddy at 3:45 PM on November 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 3:45 PM on November 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
you should break up with them because this makes you want to break up with them.
however, the fact that this was a high school library, if indeed it was ("might have been" ??)makes it absolutely ludicrous, so definitely tell them in great detail that this is why you're doing it, so that they don't feel bad.
a teenager who steals so infrequently that this is their one great naughty stealing story they retell in adulthood is neither a master criminal nor an ethical black hole. high school libraries do not generally have irreplaceably rare or valuable materials that can be walked off with. stealing library books is wrong. caring about just about anything from high school other than deliberate interpersonal violence is wronger.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:51 PM on November 28, 2022 [13 favorites]
however, the fact that this was a high school library, if indeed it was ("might have been" ??)makes it absolutely ludicrous, so definitely tell them in great detail that this is why you're doing it, so that they don't feel bad.
a teenager who steals so infrequently that this is their one great naughty stealing story they retell in adulthood is neither a master criminal nor an ethical black hole. high school libraries do not generally have irreplaceably rare or valuable materials that can be walked off with. stealing library books is wrong. caring about just about anything from high school other than deliberate interpersonal violence is wronger.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:51 PM on November 28, 2022 [13 favorites]
There is a book from my college library I wish I had stolen. It was a book that had a very specific interest and I was surprised my college library even had it. I think I was the only one who'd checked it out in a long time (this was 20+ years ago). I'm sure it got culled a while back (although I hope for their sake, they tried to sell it because it's a book that can go for a decent amount of money, due to the specific group of people who are interested in it). I don't think I would've regretted stealing it, had I done so, even though I knew it was wrong to do so. I may have even bragged about it. (I have had a few generally morally upright people say I should have, honestly.)
This is to say: Stealing from libraries is wrong but there are times when it might skew toward "OK." And I do agree with others that context is everything. How long ago was this? What book was it? Did they have a high school librarian on a power trip say "you can't check that out because that book isn't for you" so they took it? Or even a teacher who said "why are you reading that when you're supposed to be reading [insert more "important" book here]"? Or did they just steal it to steal it?
But you don't need a reason to break up with someone if you want to. Wanting to do so is enough.
posted by edencosmic at 5:12 PM on November 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is to say: Stealing from libraries is wrong but there are times when it might skew toward "OK." And I do agree with others that context is everything. How long ago was this? What book was it? Did they have a high school librarian on a power trip say "you can't check that out because that book isn't for you" so they took it? Or even a teacher who said "why are you reading that when you're supposed to be reading [insert more "important" book here]"? Or did they just steal it to steal it?
But you don't need a reason to break up with someone if you want to. Wanting to do so is enough.
posted by edencosmic at 5:12 PM on November 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
The lack of remorse is weird. I’ve “stolen” library books before, never intentionally but sometimes not completely unintentionally. But it feels *bad*. Like, I’m a Catholic, and I’ve brought it up specifically at confession. It’s hard for me to understand doing something like that and feeling nothing.
posted by kevinbelt at 5:41 PM on November 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 5:41 PM on November 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
Damn. I stole an untracked paperback from my hometown library when I was 17 (I’m 56 now) and I still feel awful about it (maybe for my birthday I’ll write them a confession and a donation). I’d really feel like if someone had this attitude that we had significant values mismatch.
posted by matildaben at 6:51 PM on November 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by matildaben at 6:51 PM on November 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
m I over reacting if I break up over this? (It wouldn't be ONLY over this, but I've felt a bit "on the fence" about this relationship and this is pushing me strongly into the negative direction.)
It sounds like you want to break up with them and, if it helps coming from a random person on the internet, I would give you total permission to break up for any reason whatsoever.
I'd feel differently if they had done this last week at the public library, but I have a very hard time feeling too critical about almost anything someone did in high school, much less pilfering a book. But -- just because it was "just" a high school library book doesn't negate the first point, that it is ok to break up with someone whom you are feeling on the fence about for any reason whatsoever. If this is the particular straw that breaks the camel's back, then this is what it is.
Prioritize your health and happiness and find whatever justification works for you for ending this relationship.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:11 PM on November 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
It sounds like you want to break up with them and, if it helps coming from a random person on the internet, I would give you total permission to break up for any reason whatsoever.
I'd feel differently if they had done this last week at the public library, but I have a very hard time feeling too critical about almost anything someone did in high school, much less pilfering a book. But -- just because it was "just" a high school library book doesn't negate the first point, that it is ok to break up with someone whom you are feeling on the fence about for any reason whatsoever. If this is the particular straw that breaks the camel's back, then this is what it is.
Prioritize your health and happiness and find whatever justification works for you for ending this relationship.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:11 PM on November 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
I know that ultimately I am the arbiter of what bothers me and how much, but I want to question the MeFi crowd for feedback: am I over reacting if I break up over this? (It wouldn't be ONLY over this, but I've felt a bit "on the fence" about this relationship and this is pushing me strongly into the negative direction.)
1) You should break up with them if you feel like it, I don't know what we can do to help you with that kind of decision to be honest.
2) However, you have asked for people's opinion as to whether this is over reacting. Other people have given you their opinion that it is not. I think it is, I think breaking up over a stolen library book from decades ago is completely crazy.
posted by atrazine at 2:17 AM on November 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
1) You should break up with them if you feel like it, I don't know what we can do to help you with that kind of decision to be honest.
2) However, you have asked for people's opinion as to whether this is over reacting. Other people have given you their opinion that it is not. I think it is, I think breaking up over a stolen library book from decades ago is completely crazy.
posted by atrazine at 2:17 AM on November 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
The "I beat the system" part would bother me and I'd be watching. In the present day, do they think they are really sticking it to the man when they do some underhanded thing to gain an advantage? That is a very high school attitude to have; is it possible they feel that way about this one act because they were in high school when they did it, and they don't judge their former self harshly? I think that would be kind of OK; sensible, even. But if they continue kind of self-righteously scammy into adulthood that would be a major turn-off.
posted by BibiRose at 4:27 AM on November 29, 2022
posted by BibiRose at 4:27 AM on November 29, 2022
I’m on the executive board of a nonprofit that provides funds to run special programs at our library. At a recent meeting, someone asked the head librarian about the frequency of books being stolen and what they do about it. She said that most people likely lose the books, but in any event they stopped charging people fines that don’t stop accumulating but rather a capped fee because they don’t want to portray this as punishment and deter people from continuing to use the library. They want everyone to use the library, and she showed zero irritation or judgement that some books are indeed stolen. I don’t know whether this is useful to you, but clearly people judge this kind of thing differently.
posted by waving at 4:52 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by waving at 4:52 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
I think this is a stupid reason to break up with someone--not that you should stay with your partner, but the reason would be “this person does not share the same values I have”, or more harshly: “This person is selfish and immoral” ….
Stealing a book in the past does not equate lack of strong morals now….it might, but it might not.
I’m a big library person as well, but you are assigning an awful lot of significance to the fact that it was stolen from a library.
Would you be cool if they stole from a store or someone's house? Your love of libraries doesn't make this "crime" worse than any other kind of stealing, so I'm not sure why that is such a big part of your thinking....
It sounds like you want to break up, so break up.
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 5:12 AM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
Stealing a book in the past does not equate lack of strong morals now….it might, but it might not.
I’m a big library person as well, but you are assigning an awful lot of significance to the fact that it was stolen from a library.
Would you be cool if they stole from a store or someone's house? Your love of libraries doesn't make this "crime" worse than any other kind of stealing, so I'm not sure why that is such a big part of your thinking....
It sounds like you want to break up, so break up.
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 5:12 AM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
It sounds to me that a.) you have other reasons for wanting to break up with this person and are looking to use this as an excuse; b.) the stolen library book thing is maybe representative of something else? Does it stand for some perceived mismatch in values that you are feeling in other areas
You are allowed to break up with someone for whatever reason. I echo others in saying that I don't consider a stolen library book to be a big deal. However, it seems like there's more going on here
posted by bearette at 8:28 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
You are allowed to break up with someone for whatever reason. I echo others in saying that I don't consider a stolen library book to be a big deal. However, it seems like there's more going on here
posted by bearette at 8:28 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Hi All,
First of all, I really appreciate all the thoughtful responses. I have never asked a question here; I'm a long-time reader only. I love Metafilter, but it's still on the internet, so I was habitually bracing for an internet onslaught (just preparing for the worst I suppose). Anyway it was a pleasure (and super helpful!) to read honest responses that were not aggressive to me or my partner. So, thanks!
Many of your responses resonated in many ways-- too much to articulate. My insight is that I should talk to my partner about this (and other stuff). Furthermore that "breaking up" was more about me attempting in a weirdly (toxically?) heroic way to spare my partner from the cruelty of my judgment. I think this is weird (and maybe, probably toxic) because it casts me as the hero / saint and them as the saved / sinner. This is, unfortunately, an old habit I have *sigh*. Lastly, like many people I've had relationships go south in terrifying and surprising ways, and don't entirely trust my judgment, so I am very sensitive to signs I may have mis-judged somebody's character.
Your responses have given me some mental room to approach the conversation with the balance shifted towards curiosity away from judgment. And I believe my partner is not dangerous, so it's safe to explore with them. If we end up exploring our values and find a mismatch, then we both know that's why it didn't work out, which seems fair.
Really appreciate the heart-and-brain powered care and honesty here. 10/10 would Ask MeFi again.
-MBT
posted by MyBeautifulThrowaway at 9:29 AM on November 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
First of all, I really appreciate all the thoughtful responses. I have never asked a question here; I'm a long-time reader only. I love Metafilter, but it's still on the internet, so I was habitually bracing for an internet onslaught (just preparing for the worst I suppose). Anyway it was a pleasure (and super helpful!) to read honest responses that were not aggressive to me or my partner. So, thanks!
Many of your responses resonated in many ways-- too much to articulate. My insight is that I should talk to my partner about this (and other stuff). Furthermore that "breaking up" was more about me attempting in a weirdly (toxically?) heroic way to spare my partner from the cruelty of my judgment. I think this is weird (and maybe, probably toxic) because it casts me as the hero / saint and them as the saved / sinner. This is, unfortunately, an old habit I have *sigh*. Lastly, like many people I've had relationships go south in terrifying and surprising ways, and don't entirely trust my judgment, so I am very sensitive to signs I may have mis-judged somebody's character.
Your responses have given me some mental room to approach the conversation with the balance shifted towards curiosity away from judgment. And I believe my partner is not dangerous, so it's safe to explore with them. If we end up exploring our values and find a mismatch, then we both know that's why it didn't work out, which seems fair.
Really appreciate the heart-and-brain powered care and honesty here. 10/10 would Ask MeFi again.
-MBT
posted by MyBeautifulThrowaway at 9:29 AM on November 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
If I was having a conversation with my partner in which we were purposefully revealing explicit revelations with each other about white lies, minor ethical quandaries, guilt, and remorse, and I confessed that I stole a library book, and my partner then was seriously considering breaking up with me because my partner equated public libraries with holiness, I would probably break up with my partner or at least consider it.
Reasons:
1. Such a conversation is a sanctuary, ostensibly, for revealing minor infractions without judgement.
2. Public libraries are not holy.
3. Stealing a book from a public library is so far removed from a cardinal sin against what is holy I would have serious thoughts about my partner's own judgement.
4. Humans are fallible creatures and this is so insignificant in relation to the ways people betray and exploit each other and public institutions every day I might wonder about general compatibility and ability to navigate the world generally.
Good luck!
posted by desert exile at 5:46 PM on November 29, 2022 [5 favorites]
Reasons:
1. Such a conversation is a sanctuary, ostensibly, for revealing minor infractions without judgement.
2. Public libraries are not holy.
3. Stealing a book from a public library is so far removed from a cardinal sin against what is holy I would have serious thoughts about my partner's own judgement.
4. Humans are fallible creatures and this is so insignificant in relation to the ways people betray and exploit each other and public institutions every day I might wonder about general compatibility and ability to navigate the world generally.
Good luck!
posted by desert exile at 5:46 PM on November 29, 2022 [5 favorites]
Agree w everyone who said More Context and specifically w Lizard Music who said there are worse things you could do to a library.
Libraries are great! They tend to be publicly funded. But they can also be endowed, and if you have extensive experience of the type of peonage that generates the obscene wealth that permits/obligates philanthropy, you might have some complex feelings and dissonance around libraries, or any other public good that’s at least partially funded off the blood and backs of disenfranchised laborers.
posted by toodleydoodley at 9:13 AM on November 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Libraries are great! They tend to be publicly funded. But they can also be endowed, and if you have extensive experience of the type of peonage that generates the obscene wealth that permits/obligates philanthropy, you might have some complex feelings and dissonance around libraries, or any other public good that’s at least partially funded off the blood and backs of disenfranchised laborers.
posted by toodleydoodley at 9:13 AM on November 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Just another couple points to add to the discussion:
1. Stealing can be a trauma response. Be open to the idea that this minor, one-time theft may have been a reaction to something else, not even necessarily targeting the library or its staff.
2. Are you sure that they were "gleeful"? It can sometimes be hard to tell what people are really feeling when they get animated. Maybe they were just channeling the feelings they had at the time, as others have noted. Maybe they were actually outraged at how immature they were and were actually incredulous. Maybe they were just were laughing out of anxiety or nerves or shame.
Good luck with the talk!
posted by acridrabbit at 12:39 PM on December 1, 2022
1. Stealing can be a trauma response. Be open to the idea that this minor, one-time theft may have been a reaction to something else, not even necessarily targeting the library or its staff.
2. Are you sure that they were "gleeful"? It can sometimes be hard to tell what people are really feeling when they get animated. Maybe they were just channeling the feelings they had at the time, as others have noted. Maybe they were actually outraged at how immature they were and were actually incredulous. Maybe they were just were laughing out of anxiety or nerves or shame.
Good luck with the talk!
posted by acridrabbit at 12:39 PM on December 1, 2022
It sounds like you are wanting to discuss with your partner to find out more about their feelings and actions here.
It might also be a good idea to consider more in depth your own values around libraries.
Sometimes observing one's own emotional reaction to dramatic scenes can help us learn more about our own values. Here is a movie clip where a person steals from a library. (Content note: 60's era US discrimination and segregation)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ID1iFaWgcIE
https://youtu.be/nWeCJTyho8Y
posted by yohko at 8:45 AM on December 4, 2022
It might also be a good idea to consider more in depth your own values around libraries.
Sometimes observing one's own emotional reaction to dramatic scenes can help us learn more about our own values. Here is a movie clip where a person steals from a library. (Content note: 60's era US discrimination and segregation)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ID1iFaWgcIE
https://youtu.be/nWeCJTyho8Y
posted by yohko at 8:45 AM on December 4, 2022
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posted by kingdead at 12:23 PM on November 28, 2022 [14 favorites]