please help me understand some things about the male libido as men age
September 22, 2022 8:57 AM Subscribe
I don't want to be insensitive to my partner, but he's not good at talking about this stuff.
I am a cis female in my mid-40s. My partner of 15 years is older than me, he is in his late 50s. When we started dating, we had sex frequently - multiple times a week. Our libidos were well matched for a long time.
About two years ago things slowed down to 1-2 times a week, closer to 1. I struggled a bit with this for a while but I wasn't overly distressed. We were also under COVID lockdown and had both lost our jobs, and this was stressful for both of us.
Then we both found new jobs last year. My partner took a long time to reacclimate to working again after a year off and was exhausted a lot. He also is a troubled sleeper which didn't help the exhaustion. Still, earlier in our relationship no matter how tired he was he would still be interested in having sex and be enthusiastic about it, he would initiate as often as I did, etc.
Now he hardly initiates, and often when I try to he begs off saying he doesn't have enough energy. Sometimes when we do have sex he runs out of stamina and can't finish. ED does not seem to be a factor as he has no trouble getting or maintaining an erection when we have sex, he just is too tired to do it and runs out of steam occasionally.
It hurts to initiate and be rejected, but he pointed out that he's at an age where the male sex drive tends to decrease. He won't talk about it further. And I don't want to force him to, if it makes him uncomfortable. And maybe we don't need to have a conversation, maybe it's just that simple.
I gained some pandemic weight (as did he) and I'm struggling with some self esteem issues about how I look. But he has noted that we both need to work on losing weight (for health reasons, he's not calling me a fattie to my face), and that in combination with being rejected when I initiate sometimes stings, though I am trying not to take it personally. I also feel like our frequency of intercourse has gone down significantly and has been replaced mostly by me giving him oral sex, because he can lie down and not work so hard to orgasm. He still sometimes has trouble finishing then too. And in the meantime, I'm not getting my needs met. He doesn't reciprocate giving me oral (though he used to do that frequently and seemed to enjoy it), and sometimes he just fingers me, and he doesn't put the same care and effort he used to into it. Like, sometimes he's just rubbing too hard and it hurts, and I ask him to go easier, and he does for a while and then reverts to the original pressure. It feels perfunctory, like he's just trying to get it out of the way to give me pleasure but he's not even thinking about it anymore, he just wants me to come fast and thinks more vigorous action will get me there. This sucks and often I just sort of endure it, spending a lot of time adjusting my own body position against his fingers to get me to finish without being rubbed painfully.
Our PIV sexual frequency is now once every ten days, and I give a lot of BJs in between. This feels unfair, but if he's tired and not in the mood I don't want to harass him.
However, the thing that prompted me to ask this question is that last week after we hadn't had PIV sex in a while, we did (he woke me up in the middle of the night in the mood, and I actually quite like that). It was good for me, and he was able to finish. But once he did, he wiped out on the bed and actually said aloud "No offense, but that was more trouble than it was worth, I can barely move now."
This really, really, really hurt my feelings. A LOT. He has a sort of blunt sense of humor and he may have been trying to be funny, or trying to pay me a compliment ("Damn girl, that was so good you wore me out!") but completely botched the execution. If that's how he really felt, I think that belongs in the category of "keep it to yourself" because it's so mean, and it made me feel like I had to apologize for having sex with him.
He will not talk about this in more detail with me. He just says it's age related libido issues, don't take it personally, he's still attracted to me, don't worry.
I'm not one of those women who assumes men want sex constantly all the time. I do know he masturbates somewhat frequently, often when he's having trouble sleeping as the stress release helps. If I wake up while he's doing it, he is open to me joining in (orally). But he says sometimes it's just easier to get himself off and be done with it than to go through foreplay and intercourse, he's doing it for release, not necessarily for pleasure. He has a high stress job.
But I am still feeling hurt and rejected all the time, and bringing it up makes him feel bad and I also think a bit embarrassed. He grew up in the 80s in an environment that was full of toxic masculinity and he's been working for a long time to overcome the toxic parts of that. I don't want to make him feel worse. But sex just isn't that good for me anymore because of this, whereas I used to be really really satisfied (thrilled, even) with the quality of our sex life.
He is not on any medication that has sexual side effects. I don't think. He takes Otezla for psoriatic arthritis. Maybe that's a side effect? I can't find any info on it.
I'm wondering a few things:
1) Is this truly normal for a man his age has or should he mention this to his doctor?
2) if it is normal, are there any resources anyone can recommend for me to understand more about age related libido issues in men so I can be a more sensitive partner, feel less hurt and rejected, avoid shaming him, and maybe finding ways to make sex more fun again in a different way?
3) Curve ball: I recently learned that perimenopause sometimes can increase a woman's libido. I'm at an age were perimenopause could well be happening, though I don't have any noticeable symptoms yet. I am horny all the fucking time. Maybe this is an age related timing issue for both of us that will sort itself out eventually? Or am I horny all the time because I'm not enjoying my sex life with him? I WFH and in the past few months I've literally spent my lunch breaks watching porn and masturbating before going back to work. I bought a vibrator. I feel insatiable and out of control, though I do have some shame around masturbation because my parents were weird and puritanical and not sex-positive so maybe I'm not out of control? I don't know. I just know that I'm spending a good 45 minutes every day getting myself off and feeling horrible.
I'm in therapy. My therapist knows all of this. She's helping with the shame and rejection aspects of this. But maybe I just need more education about libidos for middle-aged and late middle-aged people to manage my expectations?
I would hate to think that after 15 years this relationship will crumble due to a libido mismatch. People stay together for way longer than we have and surely this comes up and there are ways to deal with it and I just don't know where to find that information. Had this happened to you? What advice or resources can you give me? This isn't a dead bedroom situation but I am terrified that that is where we are heading. I love him, he loves me, we have a good life together, we are best friends. He is my person. But this is really upsetting me. Am I being melodramatic? Please be gentle with me, I don't think I can take tough love right now.
Thank you.
I am a cis female in my mid-40s. My partner of 15 years is older than me, he is in his late 50s. When we started dating, we had sex frequently - multiple times a week. Our libidos were well matched for a long time.
About two years ago things slowed down to 1-2 times a week, closer to 1. I struggled a bit with this for a while but I wasn't overly distressed. We were also under COVID lockdown and had both lost our jobs, and this was stressful for both of us.
Then we both found new jobs last year. My partner took a long time to reacclimate to working again after a year off and was exhausted a lot. He also is a troubled sleeper which didn't help the exhaustion. Still, earlier in our relationship no matter how tired he was he would still be interested in having sex and be enthusiastic about it, he would initiate as often as I did, etc.
Now he hardly initiates, and often when I try to he begs off saying he doesn't have enough energy. Sometimes when we do have sex he runs out of stamina and can't finish. ED does not seem to be a factor as he has no trouble getting or maintaining an erection when we have sex, he just is too tired to do it and runs out of steam occasionally.
It hurts to initiate and be rejected, but he pointed out that he's at an age where the male sex drive tends to decrease. He won't talk about it further. And I don't want to force him to, if it makes him uncomfortable. And maybe we don't need to have a conversation, maybe it's just that simple.
I gained some pandemic weight (as did he) and I'm struggling with some self esteem issues about how I look. But he has noted that we both need to work on losing weight (for health reasons, he's not calling me a fattie to my face), and that in combination with being rejected when I initiate sometimes stings, though I am trying not to take it personally. I also feel like our frequency of intercourse has gone down significantly and has been replaced mostly by me giving him oral sex, because he can lie down and not work so hard to orgasm. He still sometimes has trouble finishing then too. And in the meantime, I'm not getting my needs met. He doesn't reciprocate giving me oral (though he used to do that frequently and seemed to enjoy it), and sometimes he just fingers me, and he doesn't put the same care and effort he used to into it. Like, sometimes he's just rubbing too hard and it hurts, and I ask him to go easier, and he does for a while and then reverts to the original pressure. It feels perfunctory, like he's just trying to get it out of the way to give me pleasure but he's not even thinking about it anymore, he just wants me to come fast and thinks more vigorous action will get me there. This sucks and often I just sort of endure it, spending a lot of time adjusting my own body position against his fingers to get me to finish without being rubbed painfully.
Our PIV sexual frequency is now once every ten days, and I give a lot of BJs in between. This feels unfair, but if he's tired and not in the mood I don't want to harass him.
However, the thing that prompted me to ask this question is that last week after we hadn't had PIV sex in a while, we did (he woke me up in the middle of the night in the mood, and I actually quite like that). It was good for me, and he was able to finish. But once he did, he wiped out on the bed and actually said aloud "No offense, but that was more trouble than it was worth, I can barely move now."
This really, really, really hurt my feelings. A LOT. He has a sort of blunt sense of humor and he may have been trying to be funny, or trying to pay me a compliment ("Damn girl, that was so good you wore me out!") but completely botched the execution. If that's how he really felt, I think that belongs in the category of "keep it to yourself" because it's so mean, and it made me feel like I had to apologize for having sex with him.
He will not talk about this in more detail with me. He just says it's age related libido issues, don't take it personally, he's still attracted to me, don't worry.
I'm not one of those women who assumes men want sex constantly all the time. I do know he masturbates somewhat frequently, often when he's having trouble sleeping as the stress release helps. If I wake up while he's doing it, he is open to me joining in (orally). But he says sometimes it's just easier to get himself off and be done with it than to go through foreplay and intercourse, he's doing it for release, not necessarily for pleasure. He has a high stress job.
But I am still feeling hurt and rejected all the time, and bringing it up makes him feel bad and I also think a bit embarrassed. He grew up in the 80s in an environment that was full of toxic masculinity and he's been working for a long time to overcome the toxic parts of that. I don't want to make him feel worse. But sex just isn't that good for me anymore because of this, whereas I used to be really really satisfied (thrilled, even) with the quality of our sex life.
He is not on any medication that has sexual side effects. I don't think. He takes Otezla for psoriatic arthritis. Maybe that's a side effect? I can't find any info on it.
I'm wondering a few things:
1) Is this truly normal for a man his age has or should he mention this to his doctor?
2) if it is normal, are there any resources anyone can recommend for me to understand more about age related libido issues in men so I can be a more sensitive partner, feel less hurt and rejected, avoid shaming him, and maybe finding ways to make sex more fun again in a different way?
3) Curve ball: I recently learned that perimenopause sometimes can increase a woman's libido. I'm at an age were perimenopause could well be happening, though I don't have any noticeable symptoms yet. I am horny all the fucking time. Maybe this is an age related timing issue for both of us that will sort itself out eventually? Or am I horny all the time because I'm not enjoying my sex life with him? I WFH and in the past few months I've literally spent my lunch breaks watching porn and masturbating before going back to work. I bought a vibrator. I feel insatiable and out of control, though I do have some shame around masturbation because my parents were weird and puritanical and not sex-positive so maybe I'm not out of control? I don't know. I just know that I'm spending a good 45 minutes every day getting myself off and feeling horrible.
I'm in therapy. My therapist knows all of this. She's helping with the shame and rejection aspects of this. But maybe I just need more education about libidos for middle-aged and late middle-aged people to manage my expectations?
I would hate to think that after 15 years this relationship will crumble due to a libido mismatch. People stay together for way longer than we have and surely this comes up and there are ways to deal with it and I just don't know where to find that information. Had this happened to you? What advice or resources can you give me? This isn't a dead bedroom situation but I am terrified that that is where we are heading. I love him, he loves me, we have a good life together, we are best friends. He is my person. But this is really upsetting me. Am I being melodramatic? Please be gentle with me, I don't think I can take tough love right now.
Thank you.
Yes this sounds more like a cardio problem than anything. Active sex is all cardio! If he doesn't walk around as part of his job, and he doesn't have an athletic hobby or go to a gym or something, he may just be out of shape, not on terms of weight but with regard to his circulatory system. Does he mostly travel by car? Does he mostly sit on a couch in his spare time? You may want to start going on walks or look at a gym membership. It sounds like he's very excited by you but feeling pressured to perform and being disappointed by his body. Regular exercise does wonders. And it's not about waist size, just getting one's heart rate up for a little bit, every day or every other day.
posted by panhopticon at 9:12 AM on September 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by panhopticon at 9:12 AM on September 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
But I am still feeling hurt and rejected all the time, and bringing it up makes him feel bad and I also think a bit embarrassed.
You can't workbook or research your way out of feeling bad that a partner said that to you. When he declines, is he usually so dismissive of your interest or of the pleasure in the act? This is something you actually have to talk about to address. Mismatched libidos are a real problem, but thoughtlessness or unkindness are independent issues.
posted by praemunire at 10:01 AM on September 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
You can't workbook or research your way out of feeling bad that a partner said that to you. When he declines, is he usually so dismissive of your interest or of the pleasure in the act? This is something you actually have to talk about to address. Mismatched libidos are a real problem, but thoughtlessness or unkindness are independent issues.
posted by praemunire at 10:01 AM on September 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
Late 50s, tired all the time, trouble sleeping, not enjoying activities he used to enjoy, it is definitely time for a senior physical including having his heart checked. This is the age when my FIL got a pacemaker & a CPAP.
posted by muddgirl at 10:01 AM on September 22, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 10:01 AM on September 22, 2022 [14 favorites]
I wonder why you are giving unreciprocated blow jobs? It doesn't seem like it's giving you joy.
Is he willing to participate when you masturbate, and is that something you enjoy? That could be a way to experience sexual intimacy with him that is manageable for him.
posted by metasarah at 10:16 AM on September 22, 2022 [10 favorites]
Is he willing to participate when you masturbate, and is that something you enjoy? That could be a way to experience sexual intimacy with him that is manageable for him.
posted by metasarah at 10:16 AM on September 22, 2022 [10 favorites]
Just to say explicitly that it's (probably) not age. My boyfriend is much, much older than me and was 54 when we got together. At 72 he's still interested.
Re: oral, I feel your pain there. I felt ridiculous, but I put in place an explicit tradeoff. Last time was your turn, this time is my turn.
posted by 8603 at 10:24 AM on September 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Re: oral, I feel your pain there. I felt ridiculous, but I put in place an explicit tradeoff. Last time was your turn, this time is my turn.
posted by 8603 at 10:24 AM on September 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
I would just quit giving blowjobs. The orgasm deficit is real, yo, and he needs to see that.
Good for you for getting into porn and toys, and for seeing a pattern in your arousal. While that's not necessarily a substitute for intimate, partnered sex, it helps to know that you are able to take care of your own body's needs.
In your place, I would also be hurt in ways it's hard to articulate verbally without feeling needy - but I think that there's no way to just keep quiet enough to stop resenting this situation, and even if talking about it is embarrassing it's better than making yourself small in response.
Sort of counter-intuitively, you could take all expectation of partnered sex off the table for the moment (pending a physical for him, maybe?) and lean into cuddling and intimate touch. I know that has been a lifeline for me and my partner when one or both of us wasn't up to sex (sometimes for long-ish periods). If you can reassure each other that you are still, on an animal level, happy with each other's bodies, it might take the pressure off enough for him to unfreeze and figure out what's going on, and it might help for you to get some easy touch.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 10:35 AM on September 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
Good for you for getting into porn and toys, and for seeing a pattern in your arousal. While that's not necessarily a substitute for intimate, partnered sex, it helps to know that you are able to take care of your own body's needs.
In your place, I would also be hurt in ways it's hard to articulate verbally without feeling needy - but I think that there's no way to just keep quiet enough to stop resenting this situation, and even if talking about it is embarrassing it's better than making yourself small in response.
Sort of counter-intuitively, you could take all expectation of partnered sex off the table for the moment (pending a physical for him, maybe?) and lean into cuddling and intimate touch. I know that has been a lifeline for me and my partner when one or both of us wasn't up to sex (sometimes for long-ish periods). If you can reassure each other that you are still, on an animal level, happy with each other's bodies, it might take the pressure off enough for him to unfreeze and figure out what's going on, and it might help for you to get some easy touch.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 10:35 AM on September 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
But once he did, he wiped out on the bed and actually said aloud "No offense, but that was more trouble than it was worth, I can barely move now." This really, really, really hurt my feelings. A LOT. He has a sort of blunt sense of humor and he may have been trying to be funny, or trying to pay me a compliment ("Damn girl, that was so good you wore me out!") but completely botched the execution. If that's how he really felt, I think that belongs in the category of "keep it to yourself" because it's so mean, and it made me feel like I had to apologize for having sex with him.
This is completely awful, like seriously vile, and the fact that he preceded it with "no offense" (and that you've brought this up multiple times and he will not discuss it) means he damn well knows perfectly what an offensive thing to say it was. It wasn't a joke in any way. I strongly suspect it was an intentional mean spirited dig designed to put you in your place. It seems apparent to me that he feels entitled to treat your body as an object for his pleasure, and that he is implying that you are "too expensive/needy" of an object. And you are expected to casually agree! Gross.
Based on everything you've said here, the problem is clearly that he has an entitlement mentality and sees you and your body as functioning FOR him. It probably has nothing at all to do with age, health, or libido. It's just that it was never apparent before because you were happy with the sex and had no need to question his attitudes. The age gap also makes me question if he was always putting you in a one down position from the start.
He needs a wake up call and it has to come from outside the bedroom. He does not respect you as an equal. He has no emotional intimacy with you and sees your needs as a burden rather than a joy.
posted by stockpuppet at 10:49 AM on September 22, 2022 [24 favorites]
This is completely awful, like seriously vile, and the fact that he preceded it with "no offense" (and that you've brought this up multiple times and he will not discuss it) means he damn well knows perfectly what an offensive thing to say it was. It wasn't a joke in any way. I strongly suspect it was an intentional mean spirited dig designed to put you in your place. It seems apparent to me that he feels entitled to treat your body as an object for his pleasure, and that he is implying that you are "too expensive/needy" of an object. And you are expected to casually agree! Gross.
Based on everything you've said here, the problem is clearly that he has an entitlement mentality and sees you and your body as functioning FOR him. It probably has nothing at all to do with age, health, or libido. It's just that it was never apparent before because you were happy with the sex and had no need to question his attitudes. The age gap also makes me question if he was always putting you in a one down position from the start.
He needs a wake up call and it has to come from outside the bedroom. He does not respect you as an equal. He has no emotional intimacy with you and sees your needs as a burden rather than a joy.
posted by stockpuppet at 10:49 AM on September 22, 2022 [24 favorites]
he has noted that we both need to work on losing weight
Note that you both need to make appointments for cardiac and diabetes screenings, conditions linked fatigue and loss of stamina. (I'm at a loss for your long-term partner's insensitivity, though. "...that was more trouble than it was worth"?!?! Jeez louise, I'm sorry, anonymous).
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:01 AM on September 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
Note that you both need to make appointments for cardiac and diabetes screenings, conditions linked fatigue and loss of stamina. (I'm at a loss for your long-term partner's insensitivity, though. "...that was more trouble than it was worth"?!?! Jeez louise, I'm sorry, anonymous).
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:01 AM on September 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
I just read this on the Wikipedia page about psoriatic arthritis:
Along with the above-noted pain and inflammation, there is extreme exhaustion that does not go away with adequate rest
I don’t know how much the medication helps, but it’s just something I wanted to draw out. Other posters have noted other relevant things.
posted by lokta at 11:12 AM on September 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
Along with the above-noted pain and inflammation, there is extreme exhaustion that does not go away with adequate rest
I don’t know how much the medication helps, but it’s just something I wanted to draw out. Other posters have noted other relevant things.
posted by lokta at 11:12 AM on September 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
... and I was just at the Otezla site. The drug is meant to "improve the ability to perform physical activities of daily living," but is associated with an increased incidence of depression (more on depression's impact on libido in older people), and there are contraindications for use alongside certain prescription and non-prescription meds/supplements (mentioning because you're unsure if he's been prescribed, or takes, anything else).
Your relationship history of PIV sex multiple times a week, to 1-2x/week starting in 2020, becoming 1x/every ten days now = get a good medical work-up. Missed the "troubled sleeper" detail; with a history of sleep issues and recent weight gain he may need a CPAP now. [Or a wedge pillow, or some sort of head-of-bed elevation.] Best wishes.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:43 AM on September 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
Your relationship history of PIV sex multiple times a week, to 1-2x/week starting in 2020, becoming 1x/every ten days now = get a good medical work-up. Missed the "troubled sleeper" detail; with a history of sleep issues and recent weight gain he may need a CPAP now. [Or a wedge pillow, or some sort of head-of-bed elevation.] Best wishes.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:43 AM on September 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
For me, it wouldn't necessarily be the loss or lowering of libido that was the dealbreaker / relationship-killer – there are so many ways to still feel sexy and intimate and connected even if you can't engage in regular PIV – but rather the refusal to talk with you about it and help collaboratively problem-solve. Going full-on head in the sand and being unwilling to engage or discuss with you is unacceptable if he wants to maintain the relationship. And helping problem-solve could look like a LOT of different things, not just a return to your prior status. It would look like making a doctor appointment for a full medical workup, finding a couples therapist to help keep that part of your relationship alive even if sex is temporarily off the table, looking for a different and less stressful job. And this is not meant as punishment, but I would definitely stop giving all that unreciprocated oral even if it is the main thing keeping your "mutual" sex life afloat right now.
"No offense, but that was more trouble than it was worth, I can barely move now" is a breathtakingly insensitive thing to say. You are not wrong to be monumentally upset by that. I received similar comments from my ex-husband near the end of our marriage and they leave a particular kind of mark on the psyche.
posted by anderjen at 11:57 AM on September 22, 2022 [15 favorites]
"No offense, but that was more trouble than it was worth, I can barely move now" is a breathtakingly insensitive thing to say. You are not wrong to be monumentally upset by that. I received similar comments from my ex-husband near the end of our marriage and they leave a particular kind of mark on the psyche.
posted by anderjen at 11:57 AM on September 22, 2022 [15 favorites]
It may or may not be related to his physical health but the fact you are still giving him blow jobs tand he's not doing anything in return would be giving me second thoughts. He doesn't have to have sex with you, if he waits long enough you'll do all the work give him a quick BJ and he can go to sleep without a second thought for your enjoyment, why would he want to change?
posted by wwax at 12:28 PM on September 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by wwax at 12:28 PM on September 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
Our PIV sexual frequency is now once every ten days, and I give a lot of BJs in between. This feels unfair, but if he's tired and not in the mood I don't want to harass him.
Uh nobody else seems to be pointing this out but... the math on this does not math. You are not getting enough sex because he says he has a libido issue, but he's getting tons of oral?
Girl, no.
The two of you can learn to have a satisfying sex life together that doesn't involve PIV sex but it has to be mutual. For example, you can use a magic wand together. You giving blow jobs and getting nothing is not mutual.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:29 PM on September 22, 2022 [26 favorites]
Uh nobody else seems to be pointing this out but... the math on this does not math. You are not getting enough sex because he says he has a libido issue, but he's getting tons of oral?
Girl, no.
The two of you can learn to have a satisfying sex life together that doesn't involve PIV sex but it has to be mutual. For example, you can use a magic wand together. You giving blow jobs and getting nothing is not mutual.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:29 PM on September 22, 2022 [26 favorites]
Did he have COVID? Sexual dysfunction and post-exertional malaise (a specific form of fatigue that happens after exertion) are two extremely common symptoms of Long Covid.
posted by todolos at 12:40 PM on September 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by todolos at 12:40 PM on September 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
I bought a vibrator. I feel insatiable and out of control
i have 6. you're fine.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:21 PM on September 22, 2022 [37 favorites]
i have 6. you're fine.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:21 PM on September 22, 2022 [37 favorites]
anyway. if you actually take pleasure in the physical act of giving him oral then continue doing it, but release yourself from expectations of reciprocation; that will only lead to further resentment. demanding tit for tat will not work out in your favor because what you get in return will likely be as unenthusiastic and uninterested as when he ignores your openly stated requests to stop fingering you so hard.
the next time he rebuffs your interest in piv sex only to jerk off in bed next to you while you're asleep, get out the vibrator and fucking go to town on yourself. if he is in any way interested in your pleasure (which tbh i suspect he is not) he should not have a problem with this.
i had extremely severe nerve pain before my spine surgery, and physical touch just about anywhere on my body ranged from unpleasant to outright sobbing agony. not being able to be physically close with my gf was a fucking nightmare, because her happiness and her pleasure were incredibly important to me. watching her get herself off was the fucking highlight of my shitty, exhausting, pain-filled days. and when we did manage to successfully screw around without firey stabby nerve pain ruining everything, even on my worst barfing from pain days i would never say "ugh that wasn't worth it" afterwards. honestly what the fuck.
yes, it could be post covid malaise. yes, it could be age. yes, it could be side effects of his medication. but all those things are only excuses for low libido - which, if he is jerking off frequently and getting head from you all the time, is not the actual issue, btw - and physical exhaustion. they're not excuses for him being a uncommunicative selfish hurtful asshole. go to a doctor, get a checkup, and then demand a little fucking honesty and kindness in your relationship.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:37 PM on September 22, 2022 [14 favorites]
the next time he rebuffs your interest in piv sex only to jerk off in bed next to you while you're asleep, get out the vibrator and fucking go to town on yourself. if he is in any way interested in your pleasure (which tbh i suspect he is not) he should not have a problem with this.
i had extremely severe nerve pain before my spine surgery, and physical touch just about anywhere on my body ranged from unpleasant to outright sobbing agony. not being able to be physically close with my gf was a fucking nightmare, because her happiness and her pleasure were incredibly important to me. watching her get herself off was the fucking highlight of my shitty, exhausting, pain-filled days. and when we did manage to successfully screw around without firey stabby nerve pain ruining everything, even on my worst barfing from pain days i would never say "ugh that wasn't worth it" afterwards. honestly what the fuck.
yes, it could be post covid malaise. yes, it could be age. yes, it could be side effects of his medication. but all those things are only excuses for low libido - which, if he is jerking off frequently and getting head from you all the time, is not the actual issue, btw - and physical exhaustion. they're not excuses for him being a uncommunicative selfish hurtful asshole. go to a doctor, get a checkup, and then demand a little fucking honesty and kindness in your relationship.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:37 PM on September 22, 2022 [14 favorites]
Look, libidos can decline, but that's not necessarily all that's going on. This isn't a libido issue. This is a relationship issue. If I could wave a magic wand, I'd say this:
1. He goes to the doctor and has a very honest and open conversation about his decrease in his sex drive, his exhaustion, his other health issues (has he had covid, for example?), and whatever else he'd say to his doctor that he's not saying out loud to you.
2. You all go to couples counseling and talk this out because this is a major relationship issue. If he won't go to couples counseling, then would he go to individual therapy?
You are doing so much work. You are doing ALL the work, both in therapy on your own issues and in bed giving him non-reciprocated oral sex. And, it seems like you're the only one working on the relationship. This isn't sustainable! The answer isn't for you to do more work and learn about male libidos. He doesn't even know about male libidos, I bet!
In the bigger picture, yes, it can be really common for women our age to have higher sex drives than men our age or older. But also, while he might have grown up in the 80s, but he's living in the 2020s, and it's time for him to work through whatever toxic masculinity he's struggling with right now (it can be embarrassing for some men to find their sex drive decreasing) or else he's going to find he's no longer in a relationship with you.
I'd also say... if he really won't deal with any of this, you could try suggesting you open your relationship. However, open relationships require excellent communication, and he doesn't seem open to that right now.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:44 PM on September 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
1. He goes to the doctor and has a very honest and open conversation about his decrease in his sex drive, his exhaustion, his other health issues (has he had covid, for example?), and whatever else he'd say to his doctor that he's not saying out loud to you.
2. You all go to couples counseling and talk this out because this is a major relationship issue. If he won't go to couples counseling, then would he go to individual therapy?
You are doing so much work. You are doing ALL the work, both in therapy on your own issues and in bed giving him non-reciprocated oral sex. And, it seems like you're the only one working on the relationship. This isn't sustainable! The answer isn't for you to do more work and learn about male libidos. He doesn't even know about male libidos, I bet!
In the bigger picture, yes, it can be really common for women our age to have higher sex drives than men our age or older. But also, while he might have grown up in the 80s, but he's living in the 2020s, and it's time for him to work through whatever toxic masculinity he's struggling with right now (it can be embarrassing for some men to find their sex drive decreasing) or else he's going to find he's no longer in a relationship with you.
I'd also say... if he really won't deal with any of this, you could try suggesting you open your relationship. However, open relationships require excellent communication, and he doesn't seem open to that right now.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:44 PM on September 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
Oh, yeah, and no more blow jobs on the menu for him for a bit. Like, I get that you're GGG and all that, but he isn't! He can have a blow job after your orgasm. You orgasm first for a while until things seem a bit more even. He's not being fair. I'm so sorry.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:45 PM on September 22, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 1:45 PM on September 22, 2022 [9 favorites]
I would ask him to do a full checkup (prostate, iron, thyroid, etc) and a sleep study for a CPAP.
And “that was more trouble than it was worth” is a really shitty thing to say and you should absolutely communicate that and he needs to apologize, big time. It is not a compliment. It is MEAN.
Also: no more unreciprocated bjs! This has two benefits: it lets his libido build up if it’s going to, and it stops rewarding him for being careless with you.
You’re doing all the work and gaslighting yourself a lot. Your feelings are correct. You deserve more care and consideration and communication.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 1:49 PM on September 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
And “that was more trouble than it was worth” is a really shitty thing to say and you should absolutely communicate that and he needs to apologize, big time. It is not a compliment. It is MEAN.
Also: no more unreciprocated bjs! This has two benefits: it lets his libido build up if it’s going to, and it stops rewarding him for being careless with you.
You’re doing all the work and gaslighting yourself a lot. Your feelings are correct. You deserve more care and consideration and communication.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 1:49 PM on September 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
I feel insatiable and out of control, though I do have some shame around masturbation because my parents were weird and puritanical and not sex-positive so maybe I'm not out of control? I don't know. I just know that I'm spending a good 45 minutes every day getting myself off and feeling horrible.
Oh sweets. I wish you were spending your time masturbating and having sex and feeling WONDERFUL about it all. There's nothing shameful about having a vibrator. Like you know what I wonder? Why didn't I get one so much sooner? I don't even know how many I have, but it's several! I wish you could have a partner who could enjoy this increased sex drive with you, and I'm sorry he's adding to your shame. There are so many men who would be excited about this. I'm not saying to dump him, but I am saying... you are not a problem or bad or too horny.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:50 PM on September 22, 2022 [14 favorites]
Oh sweets. I wish you were spending your time masturbating and having sex and feeling WONDERFUL about it all. There's nothing shameful about having a vibrator. Like you know what I wonder? Why didn't I get one so much sooner? I don't even know how many I have, but it's several! I wish you could have a partner who could enjoy this increased sex drive with you, and I'm sorry he's adding to your shame. There are so many men who would be excited about this. I'm not saying to dump him, but I am saying... you are not a problem or bad or too horny.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:50 PM on September 22, 2022 [14 favorites]
I know this is like, a cultural difference, but I would absolutely insist on therapy at this point in the relationship. Like, "I am not willing to talk about this topic that impacts your life and our relationship together" is just not an answer that I would be willing to accept in my partnership.
posted by latkes at 3:46 PM on September 22, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by latkes at 3:46 PM on September 22, 2022 [7 favorites]
“No offense, but that was more trouble than it was worth, I can barely move now."
This was not kind.
I’ve been typing and erasing for almost ten minutes, because this is infuriating. If this were me…
I would tell him how I felt (hurt, angry, scared, alone - words that describe my internal state - rather than ~rejected, ~disrespected, or other terms that are include a judgment call about motivations or other effects). Rather than asking for an apology (though I think one is deeply warranted!), I would first ask if he can understand how I felt. If he is a halfway decent human being, he would apologize, and we would have some shared ground to stand on to move a conversation forward about how both of us can get our needs met.
If he is defensive and shitty, I’d say that this issue is important and that I need him to talk about it with me. If he needs a couple of days to grow the fuck up about it, he can take the time to sort through his feelings on his own, but he needs to come to the table. (I would go stay somewhere else - this is dealbreaker territory for me.) We are a couple, not a man and his BJ-delivering assistant, and when I have needs, I need to know my partner is invested in them being met, even if he himself can’t meet them in specific ways.
If he was still resistant, I would offer to schedule an hour to sit together and find a couples therapist to help us with the conversation, because this is a fundamental relationship issue. I would stress that the conversation is not a negotiable one for me: I need to be in a relationship with a partner who is willing to work with me on meeting both our needs.
I’ve had conversations like this with my partner, and he has been more likely to hear me when I was super-serious and not trying to assuage him or make it easier on him. Not angry, not accusatory: I need X, and I want to work with him to figure out a solution, which may or may not involve him contributing to X, but I need him to step up.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 5:08 PM on September 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
This was not kind.
I’ve been typing and erasing for almost ten minutes, because this is infuriating. If this were me…
I would tell him how I felt (hurt, angry, scared, alone - words that describe my internal state - rather than ~rejected, ~disrespected, or other terms that are include a judgment call about motivations or other effects). Rather than asking for an apology (though I think one is deeply warranted!), I would first ask if he can understand how I felt. If he is a halfway decent human being, he would apologize, and we would have some shared ground to stand on to move a conversation forward about how both of us can get our needs met.
If he is defensive and shitty, I’d say that this issue is important and that I need him to talk about it with me. If he needs a couple of days to grow the fuck up about it, he can take the time to sort through his feelings on his own, but he needs to come to the table. (I would go stay somewhere else - this is dealbreaker territory for me.) We are a couple, not a man and his BJ-delivering assistant, and when I have needs, I need to know my partner is invested in them being met, even if he himself can’t meet them in specific ways.
If he was still resistant, I would offer to schedule an hour to sit together and find a couples therapist to help us with the conversation, because this is a fundamental relationship issue. I would stress that the conversation is not a negotiable one for me: I need to be in a relationship with a partner who is willing to work with me on meeting both our needs.
I’ve had conversations like this with my partner, and he has been more likely to hear me when I was super-serious and not trying to assuage him or make it easier on him. Not angry, not accusatory: I need X, and I want to work with him to figure out a solution, which may or may not involve him contributing to X, but I need him to step up.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 5:08 PM on September 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
Adding: I’d want to ask him what’s going on for him, too! Maybe he’s being testy because he’s tired or stressed or his hormones are changing - but those are all reasons for me to feel empathy for him and understand a way forward, not reasons for me to stop feeling hurt myself when he behaves without care or consideration for me.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 5:11 PM on September 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 5:11 PM on September 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
Have you noticed other personality changes or memory issues? I really hope that this is a situation that can be resolved with some open, honest talks and/or couples therapy (or individual for him), but honestly, it makes me wonder about early onset dementia. It just seems such an abrupt change for your best friend to turn into such a selfish asshole. Something they can screen for at the doctor's appointment that is absolutely essential. Hang in there.
posted by kate4914 at 7:48 PM on September 22, 2022
posted by kate4914 at 7:48 PM on September 22, 2022
Depression can reduce libido, so can many anti-depressants.
The anti-depressant Bupropion/Wellbutrin/Zyban is often prescribed to help boost libido in people for whom either Depression or their other antidepressants have adversely affected it.
posted by carriage pulled by cassowaries at 7:04 AM on September 23, 2022
The anti-depressant Bupropion/Wellbutrin/Zyban is often prescribed to help boost libido in people for whom either Depression or their other antidepressants have adversely affected it.
posted by carriage pulled by cassowaries at 7:04 AM on September 23, 2022
You should tell him how hurt you were by the "No offense, but that was more trouble than it was worth" comment, and you should expect him to apologize for that.
You say that he doesn't want to talk about it, but it sounds like by "it" you mean conversations about his libido, which isn't really the problem — the problem is that you aren't sexually satisfied. I think there are solutions to that other than raising his libido, especially given that he's receptive to blowjobs in between — if you try to start a conversation that's focused on potential solutions, how would that go?
Have you tried being on top during PIV sex? It sounds like the problem is that he gets tired out by it, so being in a position where you're doing more of the physical movement could help with that.
posted by wesleyac at 7:52 AM on September 23, 2022
You say that he doesn't want to talk about it, but it sounds like by "it" you mean conversations about his libido, which isn't really the problem — the problem is that you aren't sexually satisfied. I think there are solutions to that other than raising his libido, especially given that he's receptive to blowjobs in between — if you try to start a conversation that's focused on potential solutions, how would that go?
Have you tried being on top during PIV sex? It sounds like the problem is that he gets tired out by it, so being in a position where you're doing more of the physical movement could help with that.
posted by wesleyac at 7:52 AM on September 23, 2022
Or am I horny all the time because I'm not enjoying my sex life with him? ... I bought a vibrator. I feel insatiable and out of control ... I just know that I'm spending a good 45 minutes every day getting myself off and feeling horrible.
I wanted to come back and respond to this. Near the end of my marriage where the sex had been missing for two full years (godDAMN), I was getting myself off anywhere from 3-6 times a NIGHT. And because of the context, it wasn't particularly fun and sexy and exciting and pleasurable either, it felt grim and desperate and really, really fucking sad. So yeah, I would venture to guess that it probably does feel quite bad to you, less so because of a puritanical upbringing or because you're in your forties with the sex drive to match, but because it has replaced your formerly glorious sex life basically without your consent or agreement or understanding.
As soon as we separated, everything felt different, like I was still horny AF and still had no one I could share that side of myself with, but since there was only myself to have sex with, it immediately became fun and pleasurable again. And then I got into a new relationship where the sex was everything I dreamed about during that time and more, and now that I'm not living in sexual scarcity mode anymore, any sexy time spent with myself just feels like an amazing extension of that.
Also strongly second the suggestion to have a doctor screen him for depression. With the benefit of hindsight, I can now see that my ex-husband was suffering from terrible depression. But neither of us recognized it for what it was at the time because it didn't look like a typical depressive episode as I'd always been taught to understand it. The degree of exhaustion you're describing, bad sleep notwithstanding, sounds like a pretty strong indicator.
I am so sorry this is happening. My heart goes out to you, I really hope you can find the courage to speak more frankly to him about this, and that he will hear and try to be more open with you.
posted by anderjen at 1:21 PM on September 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
I wanted to come back and respond to this. Near the end of my marriage where the sex had been missing for two full years (godDAMN), I was getting myself off anywhere from 3-6 times a NIGHT. And because of the context, it wasn't particularly fun and sexy and exciting and pleasurable either, it felt grim and desperate and really, really fucking sad. So yeah, I would venture to guess that it probably does feel quite bad to you, less so because of a puritanical upbringing or because you're in your forties with the sex drive to match, but because it has replaced your formerly glorious sex life basically without your consent or agreement or understanding.
As soon as we separated, everything felt different, like I was still horny AF and still had no one I could share that side of myself with, but since there was only myself to have sex with, it immediately became fun and pleasurable again. And then I got into a new relationship where the sex was everything I dreamed about during that time and more, and now that I'm not living in sexual scarcity mode anymore, any sexy time spent with myself just feels like an amazing extension of that.
Also strongly second the suggestion to have a doctor screen him for depression. With the benefit of hindsight, I can now see that my ex-husband was suffering from terrible depression. But neither of us recognized it for what it was at the time because it didn't look like a typical depressive episode as I'd always been taught to understand it. The degree of exhaustion you're describing, bad sleep notwithstanding, sounds like a pretty strong indicator.
I am so sorry this is happening. My heart goes out to you, I really hope you can find the courage to speak more frankly to him about this, and that he will hear and try to be more open with you.
posted by anderjen at 1:21 PM on September 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's a tiny detail, but based on my experience, don't expect a pacemaker to fix the problem. At least for me, it didn't fix the problem of being easily winded by moderate exertion.
I don't see a suggestion of trying positions where you do all the work. That too wouldn't be a complete fix but it might be pleasurable from time to time. Ride'em Cowgirl!
posted by SemiSalt at 6:29 PM on September 23, 2022
I don't see a suggestion of trying positions where you do all the work. That too wouldn't be a complete fix but it might be pleasurable from time to time. Ride'em Cowgirl!
posted by SemiSalt at 6:29 PM on September 23, 2022
Re: the suggestions that you get on top and do all the work - I mean, yeah, it's possible that might result in more PIV sex for you. But is "I'm too tired so you do it" the kind of attitude you really want to consistently accept from a partner? Of course he doesn't WANT to talk about it, but he does have to. Otherwise the resentment that comes from his ignoring your needs will drive you apart, sooner or later.
posted by storminator7 at 8:22 PM on September 23, 2022
posted by storminator7 at 8:22 PM on September 23, 2022
I’m going to be really blunt.
If he’s masturbating a lot, it’s not a problem with his libido.
He’s checked out of your relationship. He prefers to get himself off than to sexually connect with you.
I haven’t read every last reply to your post, but in case no one else has brought up the possibility of infidelity—it may be that he’s sexually attached to someone else.
posted by Sublimity at 9:13 PM on September 24, 2022
If he’s masturbating a lot, it’s not a problem with his libido.
He’s checked out of your relationship. He prefers to get himself off than to sexually connect with you.
I haven’t read every last reply to your post, but in case no one else has brought up the possibility of infidelity—it may be that he’s sexually attached to someone else.
posted by Sublimity at 9:13 PM on September 24, 2022
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If it was me, I'd take him to the doctor. Sounds like something is up with his heart.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:02 AM on September 22, 2022 [12 favorites]