Jaw removal in dogs: personal experiences?
September 15, 2022 5:12 PM   Subscribe

So my dog has developed a fibrosarcoma in her jaw. The options are: surgery to remove her entire lower jaw, plus chemo etc, and hope for a couple extra years, vs no surgery, pallative care, and we'll probably be at departure time in a year. The pictures etc I've seen of dogs without jaws makes me think this is not a good quality of life option for a dog who is very active and cares about keeping her place as "top dog" of the pack. Just wondering if any Mefites have had a dog who had a jaw removed and how it went.

I can go into all the details but basically it looks like it boils down to-- complete jaw removal, chemo/radiation etc, and that will buy us SEVERAL years if we're lucky; if we miss a bit of it, it's still a year or two. Right now it is not causing her ANY distress but it is a big tumor forming in the gums etc of her jaw and will eventually impact her closing the jaw, plus possibly spreading to the lungs.

She is a very active and healthy (otherwise) dog and is my 'deputy' while I work at a dog daycare; she breaks up fights and firmly explains to other dogs the important rules (no jumping the fence, no stealing, no digging in unapproved areas) She does this by barking, no contact, but she is well-able to assert and defend herself if need be-- at the moment. Without a lower jaw, she will not be able to defend herself if a situation arises and I am sure she will know this, much as a cat who has been declawed will resort to biting, but... she won't have any way to compensate.

If she was a spoiled lapdog I'd be all fine with it, but I feel like she is a working dog, proud of it, and needs that confidence and wholeness for quality of life.

Cost is not an issue; I have funds etc set aside for this.

my own gut feeling, having had her from a puppy, is that she'd prefer a shorter, 'working' life to a longer life of being handfed and protected, but I'm not sure how much of that is true and how much of it is my gut trying to find the best path for -me-, rather than her.

no judgement, all thoughts welcome.
posted by The otter lady to Pets & Animals (26 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
I am so sorry. Our last best girl got two tumors in her lungs, we did some chemo, but it didn’t help, just made her sick. Good luck to the both of you.
posted by Windopaene at 5:27 PM on September 15, 2022 [1 favorite]


A dog is a companion animal, so in a very real way, the best path for you and the best path for her are the same thing. You can't devote yourself to her in the same way she's devoted to you, it's not a relationship of equals. That's not to say you shouldn't consider what's best for her qua her, but the context of the partnership is always going to be a big factor. Sounds like you're being realistic and compassionate. Don't give yourself a guilt trip because you could theoretically do more.
posted by rikschell at 5:39 PM on September 15, 2022 [5 favorites]


Having just put down my beloved dog, I feel bad that I didn't do it a little earlier to relieve her suffering. And I'm glad I did it as soon as the vet told me she was always in pain. It was hard knowing that she couldn't understand why she hurt.
I think a wonderful life of a natural lifespan without extreme medical intervention is best for dogs. Of course it's different for everyone, but if you are asking for all thoughts on this, that is mine. I'm very sorry you are facing this hard time.
posted by ojocaliente at 5:52 PM on September 15, 2022 [25 favorites]


I have not had a dog with jaw removal surgery but I have had to make a similar choice for my dog in the last month. She was absolutely incontinent and couldn't walk without pain because of some pretty severe hip issues. The vet thought we could do a combination of surgery and pain meds to mitigate it for a year or two. Like ojocaliente said, I think a happy life without extreme medical intervention is best for dogs, and we ultimately decided to help ease her way. I am so sorry you have to make this choice and I think you nailed it when you wrote "she is a working dog, proud of it, and needs that confidence and wholeness for quality of life."
posted by coldbabyshrimp at 5:59 PM on September 15, 2022 [13 favorites]


Also, ours was a spoiled lap puppy (great danes always are) and you could tell she felt distress. I think she had a hard time with having to be assisted everywhere and waking up puddles time and again. I think its doubly so for a dog with an active engagement.
posted by coldbabyshrimp at 6:02 PM on September 15, 2022


One thing to consider when dealing with an animal with a serious illness is that there's no way to communicate to an animal that the unpleasant things which are happening to them (medical procedures) are in service of a somewhat longer term positive goal. A one and done surgery that leaves a pet more or less intact at the end is one thing, but a more drastic surgical intervention+ chemo seems like it will be potentially much more confusing and unpleasant for the pet. This thought has guided my decisions about treatment for pets with serious illnesses, perhaps it will help you. I'm sorry you find yourself in the position of having to make a hard decision like this.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 6:03 PM on September 15, 2022 [38 favorites]


Grueling, life-altering, and physically disabling cancer treatments take such a toll on humans who can understand the stakes and trade-offs and make an informed decision. I think your instinct to protect her from pain, confusion, and a lowered quality of life is a deeply kind one.
posted by theotherdurassister at 6:07 PM on September 15, 2022 [51 favorites]


Hey, solidarity and sympathy and support to you both. You can trust your gut feeling on this. Give her a wonderful year.
posted by foursentences at 6:11 PM on September 15, 2022 [6 favorites]


I'm so sorry you're going through this. We went through similar with a beloved cat. We did one small surgery to remove an oral tumor, but when it came back a few months later we were given the same options that you're describing. For us it came down to: incredibly invasive procedure + the rigor of the chemo/radiation treatment (I think they wanted us to do 5 days a week for 6 weeks) + the distance of the place that did the chemo/radiation (even in our large city there was only 1 place, and it was an hour away...and to be frank, the cost. The described treatment was going to cost several thousand dollars.

Ultimately, we decided against it. We had a sad but love-filled 6 months with our beloved, then helped her depart gently with in-home euthanasia. I miss this cat all the time, but I think we made the right choice.
posted by BlahLaLa at 6:30 PM on September 15, 2022 [12 favorites]


My dog-nephew, a purebred golden retriever had cancer detected when he was 1-2 years old. Part, but not all of his jaw was removed, so he’s a messy eater and drinks from a 5 gallon bucket. Has a goofy tongue pose in all smiles still 8 years later. Your mileage may vary considerably, and you know your dog best.
posted by childofTethys at 1:13 AM on September 16, 2022 [2 favorites]


My beloved dog Clyde had a tumour around his jaw and throat. He had surgery (not jaw removal, but a sizeable section of his throat and some teeth/ gum removed) and I was assured the tumour had been removed with good margins. He was okay for awhile, but he was subdued and more fearful of life. It was heartbreaking to see my little fella be so vulnerable afterwards - no bouncing around with his mates, profound anxiety having lost his sense of self-protection. His cancer returned, clearly it had metastasised and he went blind in one eye quickly, then had fits with what we assumed was cancer spread to his brain.
More surgery was an option but I knew we had to enter our new realm of separation to spare him any more trauma. Surgery and chemo is trauma for both human and pet, we feel it all. Having no certainty of a recovery is stressful and grief is present. Knowing how hard this all was for me and Clyde, I’d have spared him the trauma of his mouth surgery. Taking away his ease of eating was a big thing for a dog for whom food is Love.

I would taken the one year of palliative care and avoided the vet visits (which were stressful for him) until it became finally necessary. I’m sorry for what lies ahead for youh. It’s really tough.
posted by honey-barbara at 1:29 AM on September 16, 2022 [5 favorites]


I'm so sorry that you're in this situation. I think you're right to prioritize her well-being over longevity of life. It's so good that you have money saved and various options. It's true she may recover from the surgery and continue to live a life that's happy in a different way than now. But personally I go for less invasive and painful procedures when it comes to pets and also prioritize quality of life.

I think for loving animal people like all of us here, it's almost never a question of "I wish I had done more" but rather "I wish I had been willing to let go earlier." I certainly know I've been in the spot and it's an awful choice. Whatever you choose, I wish you two continued happiness together as long as possible.
posted by smorgasbord at 3:21 AM on September 16, 2022 [6 favorites]


Best answer: Also, while our time on earth with pets often feels too short, an extra year together with good pallative care to minimize pain, sounds like a gift. One where you have to anticipate a sad ending but also one that you can share and savor as much as possible.
posted by smorgasbord at 3:24 AM on September 16, 2022 [2 favorites]


I want to second this reply as it describes my feelings well when going through some health and end of life decisions for my best dog recently.

In the end, I decided that as my dog’s guardian, my responsibility was to give him the best life I could, not the longest. That quality meant more than quantity and that Hunter, having no notion of “years” didn’t have any concerns about living to 12 instead of 14.

I miss him but have no regrets about choosing not to treat him for cancer.
posted by hilaryjade at 4:49 AM on September 16, 2022 [3 favorites]


We provide palliative care to foster dogs because I believe with my whole heart that for dogs, who have no concept of time, it is all about quality over quantity. (I believe this for myself as well, but respect that other humans have different beliefs and experiences.)
posted by DarlingBri at 5:14 AM on September 16, 2022 [4 favorites]


Not a jaw & not a cat -- but a beloved member of our cat family had a quickly growing sarcoma in her leg. We opted to amputate because cats do well on three legs and there was a reasonably good chance the surgery alone would resolve but lung spread was a risk. A couple months after successful surgery & good recovery oncology follow up did find tumors in her lungs. We attempted treatment (not IV chemo but a medication to manage) but ultimately the lung growth was very rapid paced. We were able to euthanize her at home before her breathing was significantly compromised & she was in pain/distress. Overall we had about 6 months from surgery to end of life.

Her surgery was really clean & no complications. She progressed really pretty quickly through recovery. Even so, it was still apparent some of the time she had pain that we weren't able to manage for her that she didn't understand. For a couple weeks pre-surgery I checked on her overnights (or she slept with me) and we had additional meds for pain management. Her surgery was pandemic delayed due to veterinary availability (we were in surgery queue for any surgical specialist in about a 200mile radius). For about three weeks after surgery we had meds to administer every 6-8 hours and we checked on her every two hours including overnight. My husband & I alternated check-ins but the sleep schedule & the stress was high.

Lessons learned:
- Have surgery as soon as possible.
- Pre-surgical decision thoroughly review lungs. If there is any question get a second opinion.
- If there is spread to lungs - hard reconsideration of proceeding.
- Have some serious conversations about what to expect & how to manage pain.
- Weigh the pain/trauma of recovery from surgery heavier with the "lesser optimistic path" (ie don't assume the best case)

For our cat I'm still conflicted. I'm glad we tried and my relationship with that cat deepened more than I could have imagined in the months I had with her while she was unwell. Statistically our outcome wasn't that likely so we made pretty good decisions along the way based on what the vets thought would happen. BUT I'm not sure I would do it over again if I had any idea the window would/could be so short. A jaw sounds a lot more life altering than a leg for a four legged critter and may be so significant of a quality of life change that even the best possible outcome is still not a state *you* would want for yourself.
posted by countrymod at 6:53 AM on September 16, 2022


I'm a vet and I would never put one of my own animals through jaw removal surgery. I'm so sorry about your dog and hope she stays happy and pain-free as long as possible.
posted by peanut butter milkshake at 8:59 AM on September 16, 2022 [22 favorites]


To reiterate smorgasbord and hilaryjade, it's always been my belief that pets do not understand quantity of years, only quality.

Many years ago, I had a cat who developed lung cancer at age 13. The surgery would have involved cracking his breast bone, and chemo would have followed. I realized that there was no way for me to make him understand why I would put him through that. I opted for palliative care and planned for euthanasia if his pain increased, but he passed peacefully in his sleep about three months later.

I'm so sorry you and your pup have to go through this.
posted by SamanthaK at 9:37 AM on September 16, 2022 [3 favorites]


This is awful, I'm so sorry.

Several years ago one of my dogs developed an aggressive tumor on his front leg. My husband and I agonized over it but eventually decided to amputate. A big factor in that decision was that ultimately (assuming a successful surgery and recovery) we did not think that losing a leg would change his day-to-day life in any meaningful way. We were right about that; he was a lazy couch potato before and he remains one now. He is happy and goofy and clearly does not give a shit about missing a leg. I'll never truly know how much time it bought us, but I am absolutely sure it was the right decision both for him and for us.

I'm not sharing this because I think it's the same as your situation, but because I think it isn't. It sounds like you think your dog would be miserable, and I think you should listen to that voice. Like others have said, dogs truly and completely live in the moment. It's one thing to put them through some bad moments in order to give them more good moments in the future; it's a very different thing to sign them up for a future of mostly bad moments solely to buy more time. Because if neither one of you will be able to enjoy that extra time, what's the point?

This all sucks so, so much, and it's a uniquely difficult thing because it's not like you can ask your dog what they would prefer; it's entirely on you to make the decision that you think would be best for their happiness and quality of life. And that very much varies by dog! Our tripod is actually our second dog in a row that developed a leg cancer (though different types); we did NOT amputate with the first dog because he was a very large, very anxious guy who hated stairs and got scared anytime he had to cross a section of floor without a rug on it. We thought he'd be miserably sad and confused on three legs, so instead we spent a few more months spoiling the crap out of him and then let him go when it was clear that the pain was becoming too much for him. The day we took him in, I cried so hard I almost threw up. I also didn't regret it for even one moment.

This is all a very long-winded way of saying, trust yourself and trust the bond you have with your dog. It's obvious to me from what you've written that you love her deeply and care very much about her comfort and happiness. Let that guide you and you'll end up where you need to be.

Again, I'm so sorry. I'll be thinking of you both.
posted by catoclock at 11:07 AM on September 16, 2022 [3 favorites]


Our border collie when I was growing up had a jaw tumor and had a section removed. He wasn't unhappy I think in the time between the surgery and the end, but looking back, I don't think that I would make the same decision for another dog.
posted by brilliantine at 11:22 AM on September 16, 2022


Trust your gut. You know. ❤️❤️❤️
posted by spindrifter at 1:00 PM on September 16, 2022 [1 favorite]


I asked my veterinarian kid and she said in some ways, this is an easier decision because no, one does not want jaw removal surgery. Their quality of life is not good afterwards. I am so sorry you're going through this.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 1:19 PM on September 16, 2022 [3 favorites]


My father had the option for similar surgery for his own cancer. He did not take that option. He felt it would have been awful and the quality of life would not be worth it afterwards.

I believe he made the correct decision.
posted by Jane the Brown at 8:09 PM on September 16, 2022


Our family dog Daisy developed a similar sarcoma in the jaw just above her nose. It ended up being about the size of a satsuma and protruded. The vet said radical surgery would have not produced a great outcome and just to give her a happy life for as long as possible, and that she would be monitored so we knew when a happy life was no longer possible.

I think that was genuinely the best option. The one thing I would say is that if your dog has a facial disfigurement, you're going to get a lot of tutting, censorious looks and "why don't you take that poor dog to the vet and get something done?" from busybodies.

It felt as though they would rather we had her put down early than have a happy dog noodling around the garden who happened to have a bulge in her jaw.

I'd just have a quick explanation ready. Dog owners and friends get it. The rest are a pain to deal with.
posted by finisterre at 3:33 AM on September 18, 2022


FWIW do consider that life expectancy estimates... are estimates. I knew a doggo with a tumor elsewhere in the head than your pup. The owners decided on no treatment/ palliative care. Said doggo lived longer (with a good quality of life) than the vet's initial expectations.

In other words, I'm inclined to agree with the "quality over quantity" sentiments stated above. Even if you did the drastic treatment, there is no guarantee that there would be a few more years of life.
posted by oceano at 6:38 AM on September 18, 2022


FWIW do consider that life expectancy estimates... are estimates. I knew a doggo with a tumor elsewhere in the head than your pup. The owners decided on no treatment/ palliative care. Said doggo lived longer (with a good quality of life) than the vet's initial expectations.

This is a very good point. This tiny terrorist is in palliative care with me. I picked him up in June and he was supposed to be gone by Christmas. That was three years ago. He and his two brain cells are absolutely thriving, the dummy.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:46 AM on September 18, 2022 [1 favorite]


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