Content Warning: sexual abuse
August 28, 2022 7:08 PM Subscribe
This is me. Things got worse.
I cut off contact from court case brother. I also realised that his partner who I am very fond of, didn't want to have anything to do with his family until the court case was over (delayed now due to COVID) and I deliberately cut contact with the partner (it was rare in any case and might not have been noticed).
But what happened was the functional brother and I had travelled to a family funeral a long way from where we live and when he was drunk, he (long story short) attempted to have sex with me.
When it comes to flight or fight, I freeze. He had reason to believe he had consent because as my psychologist said, I've been conditioned to obedience.
So I don't think he's a bad person, and I'm really grateful penetration wasn't achieved, but I can't trust him or his motives for anything in the past, I do not want to be in his company. Therefore, reasonably, I have cut contact with him, which also includes his partner, his kids and their partners, my grand-niblings. I don't think he is a risk to other people, so I'm not going to break his family's collective hearts by telling them why.
So here's my problem. My birthday is in under a week. Tradition is family contacts family on birthdays. I've blocked them on social media and my phone (they might not have noticed even though it was 3 months ago), but I'm afraid someone will actually manage to get in contact with me.
And on top of that, my father's brother, who is a lovely man and knows nothing of this is going to be in the vicinity of both myself and my brothers right around my birthday. He will ask.
So, what's my script if brother or brothers' family manage to get hold of me?
What's the script for my uncle, if he asks why I'm not in contact with the brother who brought me to his wife's funeral?
What's the script if my kids get harassed by my siblings etc on social media?
Last bit, not a question: I've lost whole extended family in a year through crimes committed by other people, and there's no-one I can but strangers, and I'm grieving and I'm even a bit annoyed that no-one knows that I'm doing them a favour, just like all the other times.
I cut off contact from court case brother. I also realised that his partner who I am very fond of, didn't want to have anything to do with his family until the court case was over (delayed now due to COVID) and I deliberately cut contact with the partner (it was rare in any case and might not have been noticed).
But what happened was the functional brother and I had travelled to a family funeral a long way from where we live and when he was drunk, he (long story short) attempted to have sex with me.
When it comes to flight or fight, I freeze. He had reason to believe he had consent because as my psychologist said, I've been conditioned to obedience.
So I don't think he's a bad person, and I'm really grateful penetration wasn't achieved, but I can't trust him or his motives for anything in the past, I do not want to be in his company. Therefore, reasonably, I have cut contact with him, which also includes his partner, his kids and their partners, my grand-niblings. I don't think he is a risk to other people, so I'm not going to break his family's collective hearts by telling them why.
So here's my problem. My birthday is in under a week. Tradition is family contacts family on birthdays. I've blocked them on social media and my phone (they might not have noticed even though it was 3 months ago), but I'm afraid someone will actually manage to get in contact with me.
And on top of that, my father's brother, who is a lovely man and knows nothing of this is going to be in the vicinity of both myself and my brothers right around my birthday. He will ask.
So, what's my script if brother or brothers' family manage to get hold of me?
What's the script for my uncle, if he asks why I'm not in contact with the brother who brought me to his wife's funeral?
What's the script if my kids get harassed by my siblings etc on social media?
Last bit, not a question: I've lost whole extended family in a year through crimes committed by other people, and there's no-one I can but strangers, and I'm grieving and I'm even a bit annoyed that no-one knows that I'm doing them a favour, just like all the other times.
Are you still seeing your therapist? If so, please talk to them. If not, please, please get some more professional help. Everyone here wishes you well, but this is a very serious matter and you need more help than the Internet can provide.
You don't have to talk to any of these people and I would just hang up if they do try. Your kids should have these people blocked, too.
posted by praemunire at 7:28 PM on August 28, 2022 [19 favorites]
You don't have to talk to any of these people and I would just hang up if they do try. Your kids should have these people blocked, too.
posted by praemunire at 7:28 PM on August 28, 2022 [19 favorites]
A man who would have sex with his own sister is absolutely a risk to others. He assaulted you and tried to rape you. You can't "consent" to incest. You don't have to be polite about this or protective of any of these people from the consequences of their own actions. It might be healthy for you to be openly, publicly outraged that you have been abused and traumatized like this. Don't talk to anyone who has abused you, period. Block people who harass your kids. Feel free to say things to other people like "he tried to rape me after Aunt Mary's funeral." Your family is not ever going to be a safe supporr system; use therapy to cultivate better. You deserve far better than this.
posted by shadygrove at 8:20 PM on August 28, 2022 [34 favorites]
posted by shadygrove at 8:20 PM on August 28, 2022 [34 favorites]
For the weeks just before and after your birthday can you just delegate a trusted proxy to manage your social media? Give them your login; have them go on your accounts and delete any messages/block any senders you don't want to see or hear from and/or respond with any prescripted message about going no-contact.
As for a script, you might try the following:
"I need some space away from my brother/uncle/father/family for the time being and am taking some time to work through things. Thanks for checking."
Repeat ad nauseam. If people press you can try:
"That's all I'm going to say on the matter, please drop it."
They still keep pressing.
"This topic is no longer open for discussion. I'm going to hang up now."
Depending on how old your kids are, maybe have them take a break from social media for a few week. You can temporarily disable/deactivate accounts for the weeks before and after your birthday.
posted by brookeb at 8:30 PM on August 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
As for a script, you might try the following:
"I need some space away from my brother/uncle/father/family for the time being and am taking some time to work through things. Thanks for checking."
Repeat ad nauseam. If people press you can try:
"That's all I'm going to say on the matter, please drop it."
They still keep pressing.
"This topic is no longer open for discussion. I'm going to hang up now."
Depending on how old your kids are, maybe have them take a break from social media for a few week. You can temporarily disable/deactivate accounts for the weeks before and after your birthday.
posted by brookeb at 8:30 PM on August 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
You don’t owe anyone any explanation. “I’m focusing on what’s best for me, please respect that I’ve thought this through and won’t be reconsidering,” might be one way to word it. However: if you have any desire to disclose what your brother did to you, or any desire not to use your energy to protect his reputation, that is also perfectly valid and you have every right to tell anyone any of it. He committed sexual assault and attempted rape. There’s no justification or extenuating circumstance in, “it was his sister” or “he was drunk.” If his family or others find out what happened and feel heartbroken, it won’t be because you did something wrong by telling, but because he did something heinous. What he did to you is no less wrong, no less violent, no less a crime than if he attacked a total stranger. You did not deserve this even a little.
(Of course, family dynamics can be awful, and sometimes the victim is blamed when they should be protected. If that’s likely to happen with this situation, do what you need to do to keep yourself safe. But don’t buy into the lie that you would be harming anyone by telling the truth about what he did. He did the harm. Not you.)
posted by theotherdurassister at 9:57 PM on August 28, 2022 [8 favorites]
(Of course, family dynamics can be awful, and sometimes the victim is blamed when they should be protected. If that’s likely to happen with this situation, do what you need to do to keep yourself safe. But don’t buy into the lie that you would be harming anyone by telling the truth about what he did. He did the harm. Not you.)
posted by theotherdurassister at 9:57 PM on August 28, 2022 [8 favorites]
> so I don't think he's a bad person
An adult who tries to have sex with someone who is frozen in panic is a bad person. Proper sexual consent is mutual and includes enthusiasm, not obedience or dissociation or silence or uncertainty. It is bad to attempt sex when the partner isn’t enthusiastically participating. That’s rapey at best if not outright rape. Especially when it’s the first time and mutual rules haven’t been discussed. And especially when it’s their sibling or other relative. It’s ok to think he’s a bad person. He is. Even if he has good aspects too.
All these men in your family are awful. It’s absolutely EVIL to sexually abuse a child or watch CSAM (and he downloaded it to watch it, make no mistake). It’s deeply disturbed to try to have sex with a known relative. Brother2 may well be abusing others if he crossed that HUGE taboo so easily.
You don’t have to forgive ANY of what they did or do. Even if they were traumatized or abused in childhood too (sounds likely) it still doesn’t excuse their behaviour. You had a traumatic past but you don’t sound like you go around assaulting people; your brothers could be like you but they choose to be horrible. It’s totally ok to cut them off.
It would be totally ok to tell people what they did, too. They don’t deserve to be protected. That doesn’t mean you HAVE to expose what they did- it’s YOUR story to share when or if you choose. But you should make that choice for yourself, not for them - you certainly don’t need to carry an obligation to protect people who harm you.
I’m so sorry they treated you like that. I believe you. You did not deserve it. Even if it was a confusing situation, even if parts of it involved good feelings or pleasure or closeness, even if sometimes you didn’t want it to stop. It was still wrong that you were put into that situation and wrong that they did that to you. I hope you can forgive yourself for any guilt you carry, because it’s not your fault and you deserved better. <3
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:17 PM on August 28, 2022 [29 favorites]
An adult who tries to have sex with someone who is frozen in panic is a bad person. Proper sexual consent is mutual and includes enthusiasm, not obedience or dissociation or silence or uncertainty. It is bad to attempt sex when the partner isn’t enthusiastically participating. That’s rapey at best if not outright rape. Especially when it’s the first time and mutual rules haven’t been discussed. And especially when it’s their sibling or other relative. It’s ok to think he’s a bad person. He is. Even if he has good aspects too.
All these men in your family are awful. It’s absolutely EVIL to sexually abuse a child or watch CSAM (and he downloaded it to watch it, make no mistake). It’s deeply disturbed to try to have sex with a known relative. Brother2 may well be abusing others if he crossed that HUGE taboo so easily.
You don’t have to forgive ANY of what they did or do. Even if they were traumatized or abused in childhood too (sounds likely) it still doesn’t excuse their behaviour. You had a traumatic past but you don’t sound like you go around assaulting people; your brothers could be like you but they choose to be horrible. It’s totally ok to cut them off.
It would be totally ok to tell people what they did, too. They don’t deserve to be protected. That doesn’t mean you HAVE to expose what they did- it’s YOUR story to share when or if you choose. But you should make that choice for yourself, not for them - you certainly don’t need to carry an obligation to protect people who harm you.
I’m so sorry they treated you like that. I believe you. You did not deserve it. Even if it was a confusing situation, even if parts of it involved good feelings or pleasure or closeness, even if sometimes you didn’t want it to stop. It was still wrong that you were put into that situation and wrong that they did that to you. I hope you can forgive yourself for any guilt you carry, because it’s not your fault and you deserved better. <3
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:17 PM on August 28, 2022 [29 favorites]
Tell whoever asks that you are not on speaking terms with that particular family member and that you won't discuss it any further. And then enforce that boundary as many times as required. Talking about the why is if/when you want. Reliving that particular experience can be terrible and you have this internet stranger's permission to process it at your pace.
The only thing you need to do now is protect yourself and your kid(s). You owe zero things to anyone else.
Wishing you a peaceful birthday.
posted by Nieshka at 11:42 PM on August 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
The only thing you need to do now is protect yourself and your kid(s). You owe zero things to anyone else.
Wishing you a peaceful birthday.
posted by Nieshka at 11:42 PM on August 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
But what happened was the functional brother and I had travelled to a family funeral a long way from where we live and when he was drunk, he (long story short) attempted to have sex with me.
I say this with the utmost sympathy -- this is absolutely not normal behavior.
And this isn't your fault. It's all on him.
You don't have to manage anyone else's emotions, or burden yourself with coming up with narratives to protect/excuse people.
To echo everyone else -- you don't owe anyone else anything. Please take care of yourself.
posted by NatalieWood at 12:17 AM on August 29, 2022 [10 favorites]
I say this with the utmost sympathy -- this is absolutely not normal behavior.
And this isn't your fault. It's all on him.
You don't have to manage anyone else's emotions, or burden yourself with coming up with narratives to protect/excuse people.
To echo everyone else -- you don't owe anyone else anything. Please take care of yourself.
posted by NatalieWood at 12:17 AM on August 29, 2022 [10 favorites]
Good people who know that someone has been abused by a predator, generally try to avoid doing anything that would even remind you of that abuse. They don't put you in similar situations, even if it's something they'd have no problem doing with someone else. If you know someone's been mauled by a dog, you don't bring a dog near them unless you know its ok.
However, there are some people who don't react like this... and oddly, get excited and seem to want to replicate the scenario.
I hate to say it, but *we call those people predators*.
People who have impulses like that are not necessarily bad in all areas of their life, but that action? That single action of wanting to put someone in a situation they have good reason to believe will trigger/bring up prior abuse?
That, by itself, is an attempt to put someone in the role of a victim. It's not a coincidence, they found something *exciting* about it.
Look, let's say that we did accept that two adult siblings could consensually have sex - I mean, it's just a bad idea from a drama perspective, it's don't screw the crew exponentially multiplied, but let's still accept that adults could if they wanted to...
Well, this was still not that situation!
You did not want to be sexually abused by any of your male relatives - your brother knew that. Trying to have sex with you too *is* a predatory response.
People can have relationships with coworkers, *but* if someone had been sexually abused or harassed by male colleagues in the workplace, had trauma from it, and then a male colleague who *knew* that, acted like your brother did? (It wouldn't have been appropriate anyway, because if it's not a clear yes from someone, that's a *No*)
That colleague would be a predator. They knew the prior history of victimisation, and they attempted to *replicate the situation*.
That's not something kind and empathetic people do.
So, unfortunately, I am not as confident that your brother isn't a predator too. It might be more mild, but he knew he was putting you in a triggering situation and he did it anyway.
I hope he's not attracted to children also, but regardless, if he did something like that to you, he probably would and has behaved in similarly sketchy ways with other women, and will continue to do so.
That by the way is not your fault or responsibly, but someone freezing up *is not consent*, and that he did it *anyway*, that he even put you in that situation (In guessing that he's also supposed to be monogamous? Given you mentioned family?) absolutely does mean that he wanted to be a predator in this situation.
posted by Elysum at 2:17 AM on August 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
However, there are some people who don't react like this... and oddly, get excited and seem to want to replicate the scenario.
I hate to say it, but *we call those people predators*.
People who have impulses like that are not necessarily bad in all areas of their life, but that action? That single action of wanting to put someone in a situation they have good reason to believe will trigger/bring up prior abuse?
That, by itself, is an attempt to put someone in the role of a victim. It's not a coincidence, they found something *exciting* about it.
Look, let's say that we did accept that two adult siblings could consensually have sex - I mean, it's just a bad idea from a drama perspective, it's don't screw the crew exponentially multiplied, but let's still accept that adults could if they wanted to...
Well, this was still not that situation!
You did not want to be sexually abused by any of your male relatives - your brother knew that. Trying to have sex with you too *is* a predatory response.
People can have relationships with coworkers, *but* if someone had been sexually abused or harassed by male colleagues in the workplace, had trauma from it, and then a male colleague who *knew* that, acted like your brother did? (It wouldn't have been appropriate anyway, because if it's not a clear yes from someone, that's a *No*)
That colleague would be a predator. They knew the prior history of victimisation, and they attempted to *replicate the situation*.
That's not something kind and empathetic people do.
So, unfortunately, I am not as confident that your brother isn't a predator too. It might be more mild, but he knew he was putting you in a triggering situation and he did it anyway.
I hope he's not attracted to children also, but regardless, if he did something like that to you, he probably would and has behaved in similarly sketchy ways with other women, and will continue to do so.
That by the way is not your fault or responsibly, but someone freezing up *is not consent*, and that he did it *anyway*, that he even put you in that situation (In guessing that he's also supposed to be monogamous? Given you mentioned family?) absolutely does mean that he wanted to be a predator in this situation.
posted by Elysum at 2:17 AM on August 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
No, he didn't have reason to believe he had consent because... you are his sister.
This does not have to be explained to him because knows it already because the incest taboo is species-wide and older than the species. Nobody doesn't know about it. Nobody violates it without meaning to.
So, what's my script if brother or brothers' family manage to get hold of me?
Click.
What's the script for my uncle, if he asks why I'm not in contact with the brother who brought me to his wife's funeral?
My brother and I are estranged, and I can't talk about it. How are you doing?
What's the script if my kids get harassed by my siblings etc on social media?
A call to the police, and then, assuming your children are minors, to their schools and any other non-you caretakers who can protect your children when they're away from you. Then calls to your therapist and a lawyer, in whichever order works for you.
And.
If this last one actually happens. If your siblings actually decide it's okay to try to break the hearts of your children, then it is time to break their families' collective hearts by telling them what your brothers and your father have done. This happy-go-lucky bereaved uncle among them: he doesn't get to frolic through life not knowing who his brother was. (Spoiler alert: your uncle probably knows already but has a handy Blackbeard's closet memory hole he keeps that knowledge in, like your brother who threw up once and then forgot everything you'd just said.)
Sick families stay sick because they elect one usually hideously abused family member the official historian and everybody else gets to forget all the horror and pretend they're the normal, happy ones and "poor anonymous has some issues." Maybe they throw up once, but thanks to the scapegoat they don't have to think about it anymore after that, and then a few years later they're free to get drunk and try to rape their sister and Never Mention It Again.
Your siblings should be terrified of you, given what they know you know. That you're worried they would harass your children shows that the old family magical realism dynamic is still in place, where nothing that's actually happening is actually happening--except to the scapegoat and the scapegoat has issues and therefore the things that happen to the scapegoat are the scapegoat's issues. This sickfamily circular logic vortex means that in their minds they don't need to worry that they'll ever have to face consequences for their horrible abuse. And that means their horrible abuse can continue, and they can recreate the whole mess in their own, new families. No to that: let's get everything out into the sunlight and everybody just take a good, long look at what has been going on, here.
Anyway, bottom line, keep your brothers away from you and your children forever whatever it takes.
posted by Don Pepino at 6:58 AM on August 29, 2022 [22 favorites]
This does not have to be explained to him because knows it already because the incest taboo is species-wide and older than the species. Nobody doesn't know about it. Nobody violates it without meaning to.
So, what's my script if brother or brothers' family manage to get hold of me?
Click.
What's the script for my uncle, if he asks why I'm not in contact with the brother who brought me to his wife's funeral?
My brother and I are estranged, and I can't talk about it. How are you doing?
What's the script if my kids get harassed by my siblings etc on social media?
A call to the police, and then, assuming your children are minors, to their schools and any other non-you caretakers who can protect your children when they're away from you. Then calls to your therapist and a lawyer, in whichever order works for you.
And.
If this last one actually happens. If your siblings actually decide it's okay to try to break the hearts of your children, then it is time to break their families' collective hearts by telling them what your brothers and your father have done. This happy-go-lucky bereaved uncle among them: he doesn't get to frolic through life not knowing who his brother was. (Spoiler alert: your uncle probably knows already but has a handy Blackbeard's closet memory hole he keeps that knowledge in, like your brother who threw up once and then forgot everything you'd just said.)
Sick families stay sick because they elect one usually hideously abused family member the official historian and everybody else gets to forget all the horror and pretend they're the normal, happy ones and "poor anonymous has some issues." Maybe they throw up once, but thanks to the scapegoat they don't have to think about it anymore after that, and then a few years later they're free to get drunk and try to rape their sister and Never Mention It Again.
Your siblings should be terrified of you, given what they know you know. That you're worried they would harass your children shows that the old family magical realism dynamic is still in place, where nothing that's actually happening is actually happening--except to the scapegoat and the scapegoat has issues and therefore the things that happen to the scapegoat are the scapegoat's issues. This sickfamily circular logic vortex means that in their minds they don't need to worry that they'll ever have to face consequences for their horrible abuse. And that means their horrible abuse can continue, and they can recreate the whole mess in their own, new families. No to that: let's get everything out into the sunlight and everybody just take a good, long look at what has been going on, here.
Anyway, bottom line, keep your brothers away from you and your children forever whatever it takes.
posted by Don Pepino at 6:58 AM on August 29, 2022 [22 favorites]
CUT ALL TIES.
They are toxic, they all seem to be enablers at worst - or incredibly naïve at best, or somewhere in the middle they may know about the problems and just ignore them.
You owe nothing to no one - and never have. No explanations, nothing.
Nothing good will come from maintaining any form of contact - you will inevitably be drawn into their drama (at best) - or their abuse and harm (at worst), causing yourself to accrue more trauma.
Change your numbers, change your email, hell - get a post office box and/or forwarding service and change your address.
Or... your only other option is to blow it all up - go public, and ensure everyone knows everything about everyone. Let the chips fall where they may - and then you will know who is worth staying in contact with, and who is not.
posted by rozcakj at 10:54 AM on August 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
They are toxic, they all seem to be enablers at worst - or incredibly naïve at best, or somewhere in the middle they may know about the problems and just ignore them.
You owe nothing to no one - and never have. No explanations, nothing.
Nothing good will come from maintaining any form of contact - you will inevitably be drawn into their drama (at best) - or their abuse and harm (at worst), causing yourself to accrue more trauma.
Change your numbers, change your email, hell - get a post office box and/or forwarding service and change your address.
Or... your only other option is to blow it all up - go public, and ensure everyone knows everything about everyone. Let the chips fall where they may - and then you will know who is worth staying in contact with, and who is not.
posted by rozcakj at 10:54 AM on August 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm very sorry this all happened to you. Remember that a non-response is also a response.
posted by Rumi'sLeftSock at 11:10 AM on August 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Rumi'sLeftSock at 11:10 AM on August 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
Or... your only other option is to blow it all up - go public
And - I don't mean to sound glib (this is horrible, and I am sad and angry that you have had to go through this) - but I say that as someone whose partner went through something similar with a family member.
That family member sexually abused another - after everything came to light in the courts and it all blew-up, it was found that other family members had covered-up troubling behavior from a decade prior. If that had come to light then - instead of being covered-up, perhaps the victim would never have been raped. (Because - that is what this is. Rape.)
Or - in my case, I recently found out that my grandfather sexually abused both my mother and my aunts - for years. But then myself and my sisters went to live with my grandparents when we were in our teens - this now explains much of the "weird" behavior on the part of my step-grandmother (his 2nd wife, who was not around when the original abuse happened). I don't have the heart - or knowledge on how to broach the subject yet with my sisters - I hope with all my heart that he did nothing to them.
posted by rozcakj at 11:21 AM on August 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
And - I don't mean to sound glib (this is horrible, and I am sad and angry that you have had to go through this) - but I say that as someone whose partner went through something similar with a family member.
That family member sexually abused another - after everything came to light in the courts and it all blew-up, it was found that other family members had covered-up troubling behavior from a decade prior. If that had come to light then - instead of being covered-up, perhaps the victim would never have been raped. (Because - that is what this is. Rape.)
Or - in my case, I recently found out that my grandfather sexually abused both my mother and my aunts - for years. But then myself and my sisters went to live with my grandparents when we were in our teens - this now explains much of the "weird" behavior on the part of my step-grandmother (his 2nd wife, who was not around when the original abuse happened). I don't have the heart - or knowledge on how to broach the subject yet with my sisters - I hope with all my heart that he did nothing to them.
posted by rozcakj at 11:21 AM on August 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
I am so sorry. I understand that you are saying he's not a bad person because it is psychologically protective for you, not because you are stupid or want to be nice to your abuser. at least, I think I understand that. I know it is common to feel that way. when you are eventually able to see how bad a person he really is, it may be very upsetting. I'm sorry about that too. but it is true that insofar as anybody, ever, is a bad person, he is a bad person. there is relief in being able to say what is true.
if you can't deal with thinking he's irredeemable, you don't have to think that. technically, nobody can know that. but he is a gruesome predator who knowingly hurts you. that part is fact. he did not have reason to think you consented, now or ever. he had reason to think he could assault you, because he'd done so before. that isn't the same thing. I hope this is not more distressing. it is not just true, it is important.
you may be right that he doesn't hurt other people but you don't know that. you can't know that. anybody else he violates will be keeping quiet, feeling unjustly ashamed and responsible, and making excuses for him, so they won't have told you even if they know you. that's his victim profile, and you do know that.
what's my script
tell the truth. tell the truth. anyone you think is not safe to tell the truth to, don't go near ever again.
any hearts that break will be broken by him, not you. any other victims he has will be helped. tell as much of the truth as you possibly can.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:01 PM on August 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
if you can't deal with thinking he's irredeemable, you don't have to think that. technically, nobody can know that. but he is a gruesome predator who knowingly hurts you. that part is fact. he did not have reason to think you consented, now or ever. he had reason to think he could assault you, because he'd done so before. that isn't the same thing. I hope this is not more distressing. it is not just true, it is important.
you may be right that he doesn't hurt other people but you don't know that. you can't know that. anybody else he violates will be keeping quiet, feeling unjustly ashamed and responsible, and making excuses for him, so they won't have told you even if they know you. that's his victim profile, and you do know that.
what's my script
tell the truth. tell the truth. anyone you think is not safe to tell the truth to, don't go near ever again.
any hearts that break will be broken by him, not you. any other victims he has will be helped. tell as much of the truth as you possibly can.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:01 PM on August 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
my father's brother, who is a lovely man and knows nothing of this
I...don't think you can know this to be true? The chances that your father did what he did out of the blue with no grooming or training is slim at best, and unless your uncle is much much younger than your father - like closer in age to you than him - or grew up in a different home or has had no close contact with your family over the years to observe the dynamic, it would be nearly impossible to not have gotten some kind of whiff of what was going on. And did nothing.
It is very, very likely that your uncle is also a survivor. But he may be worse, or he may be putting a lot of effort into denial, and in that case may not be an ally. I do think you should disclose, at least in dry bullet points at first. "Uncle, I'm sorry if this is a complete surprise to you, but there is a very long history of very extensive sexual abuse in our family and it still has not stopped. I can't be in contact with any of them anymore, it's not safe for me."
Be at least a little bit skeptical of his initial response, because you've had your ability to trust family pretty solidly broken and reprogrammed to trust the wrong people. And you need to assume your uncle has also been broken, and if he somehow truly has no idea and no experience, you should expect this news to maybe shatter him for a while and he may need time before he can actually be your ally.
For social media: NO RESPONSE. Block, lock accounts for a while if necessary. Do not engage. There is no point, all they're going to want to do is silence the people who can get them in serious trouble.
For the brother you've most recently had to cut off, I'm sure he's badly broken from his own experiences but unfortunately you know for sure now he has no incest taboo and will have sex with anyone who doesn't stop him. That means his children and grandchildren, too.
You are not obligated to spare the world from the existence of your trauma, and letting this blow up a little - cracking the door to let the light in - might very well save someone else in your family who is also part of this extensive system of abuse. I won't say you're obligated to blow this up, because you cannot carry that burden by yourself, it isn't fair. But I'm saying you can, if you have decided it's time. You can't control the fallout all that much - this could all come home to roost from someone else's disclosure at any moment.
As a postscript you should ask your therapist to clarify his position on incest, because I can't tell if they are excusing your brother or if you are adding that layer, but your therapist should be strongly on team "fathers and brothers AREN'T EVER SUPPOSED TO DO THAT" in order to help you rebuild your own emotional reinforcements and boundaries. If they can't do that, you may unfortunately have crossed paths with yet another predator.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:10 AM on August 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
I...don't think you can know this to be true? The chances that your father did what he did out of the blue with no grooming or training is slim at best, and unless your uncle is much much younger than your father - like closer in age to you than him - or grew up in a different home or has had no close contact with your family over the years to observe the dynamic, it would be nearly impossible to not have gotten some kind of whiff of what was going on. And did nothing.
It is very, very likely that your uncle is also a survivor. But he may be worse, or he may be putting a lot of effort into denial, and in that case may not be an ally. I do think you should disclose, at least in dry bullet points at first. "Uncle, I'm sorry if this is a complete surprise to you, but there is a very long history of very extensive sexual abuse in our family and it still has not stopped. I can't be in contact with any of them anymore, it's not safe for me."
Be at least a little bit skeptical of his initial response, because you've had your ability to trust family pretty solidly broken and reprogrammed to trust the wrong people. And you need to assume your uncle has also been broken, and if he somehow truly has no idea and no experience, you should expect this news to maybe shatter him for a while and he may need time before he can actually be your ally.
For social media: NO RESPONSE. Block, lock accounts for a while if necessary. Do not engage. There is no point, all they're going to want to do is silence the people who can get them in serious trouble.
For the brother you've most recently had to cut off, I'm sure he's badly broken from his own experiences but unfortunately you know for sure now he has no incest taboo and will have sex with anyone who doesn't stop him. That means his children and grandchildren, too.
You are not obligated to spare the world from the existence of your trauma, and letting this blow up a little - cracking the door to let the light in - might very well save someone else in your family who is also part of this extensive system of abuse. I won't say you're obligated to blow this up, because you cannot carry that burden by yourself, it isn't fair. But I'm saying you can, if you have decided it's time. You can't control the fallout all that much - this could all come home to roost from someone else's disclosure at any moment.
As a postscript you should ask your therapist to clarify his position on incest, because I can't tell if they are excusing your brother or if you are adding that layer, but your therapist should be strongly on team "fathers and brothers AREN'T EVER SUPPOSED TO DO THAT" in order to help you rebuild your own emotional reinforcements and boundaries. If they can't do that, you may unfortunately have crossed paths with yet another predator.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:10 AM on August 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
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On social media if you do get harassed god forbid just don't respond & tell your kids not to respond.
FWIW im really sorry all of this is happening and it sounds like you're doing the right things to deal with it. I hope you feel better soon.
posted by bleep at 7:27 PM on August 28, 2022 [4 favorites]