Anxious attachment thinking vs healthy striving for interdependency
August 18, 2022 9:16 AM   Subscribe

Hi, I'm back and this time I would like to find resources on the anxious attachment pattern in adults - specifically, the difference between anxious-attached cognitive distortions and reasonable expectations associated with a secure style/interdependency that are being thwarted due to the other person being avoidantly attached. And how I can reframe some of these experiences so that I am more respectful of my needs, the realities of my partner's limits, and my valuable and valid drive to heal myself so I can express healthy interdependency.

We have done couples therapy off and on for years as you could see from the post history. Overall the pursuer-withdrawer thing has improved significantly but sometimes it flares up and gets really out of hand. Usually triggered by harsh start up on my end or defensiveness on his end. I'd say it happens once a month or so. It used to be several times a month, sometimes several in one week, so this is a big improvement. We generally keep it from spiraling too much these days. But most recently we did not keep it from spiraling, so I am trying to work on my side of the situation.

I am working towards the earned secure attachment style. Made great progress in therapy. He's in therapy too but I have no idea how directly he's approaching his side of the issue. He says he wants to do this, to be more emotionally attuned to himself and then to me because he understands I need this.

Outside this issue I do get irritated about common cishet problems like division of labor, male partner not taking initiative/planning date nights, etc., but in the grand scheme of things we have been building a foundation for shared happiness that should have been built in the very beginning, but neither of us were really equipped to do that until recently. It's not at the emotional depth I want, but he tells me that he goes farther in that direction than most other men would, and based on what my friends say I think he is correct, that he at least makes more effort to generate emotional intimacy through meaningful, personal conversation than the average American male would.

I am upset with my partner but I can only control myself and I want to stop doing these terrible anxious style things like violating boundaries, showing so much anger that anyone would struggle to approach me, over-communicating, being so focused on the unresolved conflict I cannot concentrate on anything else until it is resolved or repaired. Etc. I hate being this person. I hate feeling out of control like that. In all my previous relationships I was the avoidant distancer. This is new for me. I think I would rather be in the avoidant position, given a conscious choice between the two. This sucks.

I hate that I keep seeking reassurance from someone that is primed to hurt me for asking (because that is what an avoidant is going to do when they are triggered but lack skills for conscious communication/emotion regulation etc), so that I get hurt repeatedly, and learn multiple times that I cannot get my needs met. I hate that I cannot just let it go temporarily so things can settle and a productive conversation can happen or I can realize this is tiny petty bullshit that doesn't really matter.

I can go through the motions of letting it go/ tabling it so I can gain perspective outside of being triggered, but internally that only works if I basically cut off my attachment to him, go numb/shut down, accept that my needs will NEVER be met and fall into despair so that it then requires several days of him trying to earn my trust back so I can be attached to him again in some way. I cannot tolerate that limbo space of my partner isn't here for me, but probably will be here for me enough later if I can just wait it out. It's either "please be here for me", or "fuck you I'd rather be single if you are going to bail every time it really matters to me that you show up instead".

I really struggle with things like whether or not I am justified to seek co-regulation from a partner if my partner's behavior is what triggered my insecurity. I know that the anxious attachment style tends to make others responsible for our feelings - but at what point is that actually appropriate, or a reasonable expectation, therefore my anger is in some sense justified? Here is what I mean:

Avoidant Lloyd says or does something to create disconnection/distance. Ignores text messages over several days. Skips family dinner without an explanation despite the relationship being harmonious at the time. Shifts to a significantly withdrawn state after several days of "normal" bonding without any explicit reason given for pulling away. Begins to be vague in the majority of his communication. Etc. This feels like a threat to my hypervigilant spidey sense, so I seek reassurance. I either do this in a direct and healthy way or in the overly intense/demanding/aggressive anxiously attached way.

So in this scenario let's say I become clear on my unmet needs and approach with tearfulness instead of that anxious attachment rage and express myself in as non-blaming a way as I possibly can. I use "I messages" and focus on what I am feeling and what I am asking for vs just complaining about what I am not getting.
This triggers Lloyd to disconnect further. (I assume based on my research that this happens because the stable closeness between us is probably what made him pull away in the first place, and asking for my emotional needs to be met the healthy way confronts him with an opportunity for intimacy which triggers him more to de-activate or whatever.)

So when I ask "the right way" and my partner withdraws, disconnects further or blames/judges me, I get angry because "a partner should" strive to comfort/soothe their partner if that person expresses that there are things happening in the relationship causing them distress. It seems unfair to me that my partner abdicates his "expected" role in that scenario, within the context of healthy interdependency, to be there for me.

So when I ask him to restore emotional security (after his own actions made things feel unstable/insecure/unpredictable), and he responds by creating more insecurity, am I being an anxiously attached demanding bitch with unrelenting standards/unreasonable expectations if I get super angry at him about that?

Or is it more like my anger at my partner not showing up for me the way you "should" in an interdependent relationship actually valid? And I need to focus instead on validating for myself that this is a reasonable ask, it's a sign of healthy attachment drives to want this, and it's not really my fault that my partner is not equipped to give it to me in this moment, but I also cannot make him do it so I need to redirect myself to something that can calm me down.

My gut says it is that second scenario, but I don't really know, and cannot trust his opinion as it is heavily filtered through his avoidant strategies and therefore makes everything my fault. In trying to have earned secure attachment I need outside understanding of what is reasonable and normal to want and need, and what is excessive or inappropriate, because my baseline was never calibrated properly. We have discussed this in my personal therapy but it's hard to grasp without repetition which only happens by dissecting actual scenarios to help me build an internal model of appropriate expectations.

(As an aside, my therapist has pointed out my partner's effort/willingness, and how my statement that he has changed maybe 20% in the direction I'm asking for since I've known him is actually a lot of change for an adult approaching middle age, and how I am super internally aware/articulate about my needs in a way most people are not, and therefore my expectations that he be able to jump to where I am in self-awareness is not realistic. But I also need to stop letting my fear rule me and from her perspective finding fault with his efforts is often coming from that fear of remaining vulnerable. She is probably right, hence the "fuck you I'd rather be single then" above.)

And then my other point of confusion is how do I maintain these interdependent needs when my partner repeatedly sabotages interdependency? Because when I try to get support and he acts out his avoidance, then I either get triggered to that anxious protest behavior or get triggered to avoidant thoughts like "why be in this relationship at all if I cannot get my partner to be there for me in a time of emotional need, even if I do everything 'right' to elicit a soothing/grounding response from a partner?" Practically speaking, as embarrassing as it is to admit, this can look like "you did not pick up your dirty socks" > (defensive reaction) > pursue justice/understanding > (distance/defensiveness/blame shifting) > "I want to throw my marriage in the trash because why be married at all if my partner is going to have the audacity to be an imperfect human with issues of his own that he is working on as best he can."

I think that second question is basically:
How would a securely attached person think about their partner responding to healthy interdependency needs with avoidance and distancing, if the secure partner did not want to end the relationship?

I want the life I already have to be good enough so that my most important needs are being met, and I believe with enough work that can happen. It's just hard to maintain that mindset in these situations where I am being abandoned and treated like my needs are wrong due to his issues.

Any resources on higher level discussion of attachment styles, earned secure skill-building/thought patterns, etc are also appreciated. I've read Attached and we have done Emotion Focused Couples Therapy so I am familiar with the model/language but really would appreciate a lot of examples of how the attachment style shows in thinking patterns and behaviors, how anxious demands interface with normal/healthy dependency needs, etc.

And advice generally for the anxious pattern. This is so embarrassing. I have barely been able to work the last 2 days because I cannot stop focusing on trying to solve this problem in my relationship so I go to different places online to "process" the issues and try to understand it all better and I just feel so gross and out of control. I can't solve it by myself, and understanding it all intellectually won't protect me from being hurt because I can never control or fully predict my partner. So I am just spinning my wheels in this ugly desperate headspace that makes me kind of hate myself. I hope that as I move towards earned secure I will eventually heal whatever it is in me that makes this happen. Hence asking for examples of how a secure partner would think in these types of situations.

Thanks.
posted by What a Joke to Human Relations (19 answers total) 9 users marked this as a favorite
 
How would a securely attached person think about their partner responding to healthy interdependency needs with avoidance and distancing, if the secure partner did not want to end the relationship?

A secure partner would probably think, "wow, we continually have a terrible pattern that brings out the worst in each of us. As much as we love each other, I don't think we're healthy for each other. We should find relationships that are not so prone to triggering our issues."

OR

"My partner and I have a core incompatibility. It might not be permanent, because we're both in therapy to work on our skills, but it's definitely true right now. I am going to need to find some way of meeting my own needs, because my partner cannot meet them. And I also need to consider whether it's OK with me to have a partner who cannot EVER meet my needs, because therapy isn't a guarantee."

Nobody ever WANTS to end the relationship, like, it's never someone's first choice. But if you don't even have it on the table, you're cutting off a lot of avenues to solving the problem. For what it's worth, my therapist would say that the FIRST trait of a secure attachment style is the ability to conceive of ending the attachment.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:29 AM on August 18, 2022 [16 favorites]


"fuck you I'd rather be single if you are going to bail every time it really matters to me that you show up instead".

THIS ^^ this is what the securely attached person thinks. You had one in you all along, you just have to listen to them.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:32 AM on August 18, 2022 [27 favorites]


Neither you nor your partner are bad people [edit: actually, reading your question about the 2018 BPD journal, he may be pretty bad, but anyway], but both of you would be better off in a relationship with a more securely attached person--in other words, not each other, at least not right now.

I have been working on similar issues for several years and have become convinced that it is not really possible to do this kind of earned secure attachment work in the context of an existing relationship, because fundamentally that work is about your relationship with yourself. If there is someone in the partner slot (or even in some cases a very close friendship), the energy that you try to put into the work inevitably gets redirected toward the other person and creates episodes of spiraling rather than progress.

To me, the sheer volume of this question puts into question the narrative you build at the beginning, that things are getting better. You may have gotten so invested in this idea that you've become adept at making sure that smaller episodes, rather than being vented a few times a week, are getting suppressed and then explode into larger problems on a monthly basis. Either way, this is not a sustainable situation. Ultimately only you can decide whether to break up, but I would really suggest getting to the most open, nonjudgmental headspace you can and then asking yourself whether it is really worth living with this kind of torture day in and day out, regardless of whether your partner is behaving "appropriately" or not. If nothing about this relationship changes, how do you feel when you contemplate the prospect of still being in it five years from now? On what basis are you assuming that it will meaningfully change, and what might the costs be? Think about both direct and opportunity costs, i.e. losing out on another relationship (or even being single) where you might not have to work quite so hard.
posted by derrinyet at 9:57 AM on August 18, 2022 [7 favorites]


Also, six months ago you wrote:

I don't want to believe that because everything else between us has gotten so much better. But the fact remains that things have gotten so much better mostly bc I stopped bringing things up. There's fewer breaks because there's fewer requests to receive care, accountability or change of some kind.

This does not sound "better" to me. You are doing a lot of work trapping yourself in a tiny box and when you start feel uncomfortable about being trapped in a tiny box you engage in a whole lot of self-blame about how that means you aren't working hard enough. Eventually you get sick of blaming yourself and turn to AskMe to get validation that it's your partner who is in the wrong. Your partner may well be in the wrong, but you are engaging in a pattern of self-harm that you desperately need to break out of by leaving your relationship. Your child(ren) will not thank you for becoming the person you will become if you continue to do this and I guarantee that this dynamic is not passing unnoticed by them.
posted by derrinyet at 10:10 AM on August 18, 2022 [14 favorites]


How would a securely attached person think about their partner responding to healthy interdependency needs with avoidance and distancing, if the secure partner did not want to end the relationship?


Your question has an inconsistency inside it. A securely attached person wants to end a dysfunctional relationship that is not working, that is bringing out the worst in both parties, that is hurting both parties, and/or that is bringing out the worst in one of the parties. A securely attached person then ends the relationship with grace, knowing that there will be other and better relationships and that in the meantime they have themselves to count on and love.
posted by desert exile at 10:13 AM on August 18, 2022 [14 favorites]


You asked for resources, so I will suggest a couple of books for both of you to read: How to Be an Adult in Relationships and How to Be an Adult in Love (both by David Richo). These books go into the idea of how our needs for love can be met as adults, especially when they weren't met as children (which, I hear, is what causes attachment issues).

In a similar situation to yours, I struggled for 3 years, then pulled the plug. They couldn't meet even 10% of my needs, so it wasn't a good match despite the fact that they were very happy (because their needs were getting met). It was painful, but better than feeling like there was something wrong with me for having totally legit needs.
posted by acridrabbit at 10:23 AM on August 18, 2022 [6 favorites]


Anecdotally, the only time I felt anxiously attached in a relationship, I was with someone who was avoidant. When I later dated someone securely attached again, I also felt secure. It may be hard for you to "fix" yourself in this relationship.
posted by pinochiette at 10:36 AM on August 18, 2022 [9 favorites]


It's too easy for people on the internet to tell random strangers they should end their relationships, but I did end a five-year relationship precisely because I got tired of not being able to count on him being there for me when I really needed it. My life is less stressful alone than in a relationship that I felt was SUPPOSED to provide me with certain things but was not. I have more space in my life now to focus on myself and to build other relationships in my community.

I also note that you are telling yourself that you should be patient with your partner because change is hard and slow etc., while also being impatient with yourself for not being able to make difficult changes to your own psychology. It's not JUST your job to make this work.
posted by metasarah at 10:37 AM on August 18, 2022 [5 favorites]


Chiming in as another person just like you who twisted myself into knots and made myself vanishingly small and erased all the needs I had in order to keep the peace in my 11 yr marriage... the healthiest and most psychologically balanced thing I did was to leave that marriage. It's not easy but it's often necessary.
posted by MiraK at 11:29 AM on August 18, 2022 [8 favorites]


It can be true that 20% of change is a lot of change for someone who is middle-aged and set in their ways, and be true that that 20% still isn't enough change for you to be happy and secure in your relationship.

It can also be true that someone who's done whatever processing he's done and gotten to a place of "I'm doing better than your average guy!" is...frankly not setting the bar high enough. You are allowed to want and demand better than "if you flipped a coin, you'd have a decent chance of getting something even worse" in a life partner.

I have some sympathy for him too, as someone who needs some time to process things and panics when forced to a resolution before I've done that, and who can't function at all with someone displaying a lot of anger at me. Maybe you're not helping to create the circumstances that would help him be his best self for you. But sometimes that's how a partnership works, and your jagged edges bump up against each other in ways that are painful for both of you. If you can't work past it together, as a team, it's not a great sign for your relationship.

This is such a long-standing problem now, and it sounds like the patterns are so entrenched, that I would be surprised if this changes a lot more. I think you should take a clear-eyed look at the relationship you have right now and ask yourself, if this never changes, if this is the relationship I am in for the rest of my life, do I want that? Maybe you do if you build in some other support networks for yourself, which I am heartily in favor of everyone doing outside their relationship. But maybe the thought of another twenty, forty, sixty year of exactly this sounds like hell. Okay. You can leave, and perhaps you should. It sounds like he's changed as much as he's going to, and you can meet him where he is, or not.
posted by Stacey at 11:33 AM on August 18, 2022 [4 favorites]


Response by poster: You had one in you all along, you just have to listen to them.

Not gonna threadsit but I did want to point out that my "fuck you why be married at all" comes from a triggered, exaggerated perspective. My therapist has heard lots of play by play scenarios, and her point is that this is my fear of vulnerability wanting to cut off the sense of risk behind this type of thinking. He is bad at the reassurance when I feel abandoned but if I give him some time and space to get past his reactivity he does a pretty good job. The problem comes when I push instead of let him take a beat, and he becomes shitty because nobody really wants to be loving to someone that is trying to force it out of them. If I give it even 20 minutes from the initial request for him to get his bearings emotionally and get to the other side of his defensive impulses, before I have become activated into my anxious style stuff, he has actually really impressed me with his ability to integrate the history of what I've asked for.

To me it is not really reasonable to think of ending the relationship because my partner doesn't know how to face all the emotions he felt as a child before he shut it down to become more avoidantly adapted, that get stirred up when I bring up my needs. To end things because this incompatibility has caused me to suffer too much, or because it's too much work to get to "good enough" for both of us, that's a different thing, and might be what is in everyone's best interest. But the reason for my "fuck you I'm outta here" is not coming from a particularly healthy place, based on what my therapist has said. (And she's reeeally good with this sort of thing y'all.)

Re: the comments from six months ago, I had to pause and assess whether that is still a problem. I have been overly extended for various reasons and that has resulted in advocating for practical help very regularly. When I comment on what isn't working he acknowledges my feedback and tries to do better. He still bristles at negative feedback overall and would prefer to just predict my needs and desires so he never experiences my disapproval, but he has clearly worked on making it ok for me to have things to say he might not want to hear.

(The exception being this sort of deeper emotional stuff, he has more blocks there. But it's not really fair to say it's the way it was six months ago because it was not sustainable for an opinionated person like myself to live in a space of self-censorship like that. It just made the ruptures bigger when they do happen, so I am peppering him with my daily annoyances like I used to do as well as express appreciation for things, and he is trying harder not to bat all the griping back at me.)

We are both in that space of change where there is something new taking root, but so much history of the old that we both kind of assume the old stuff is happening unless we are really grounded and paying attention to notice evidence that it's not the same. It would be really cool and exciting to see two people working so hard to be better, if it weren't also so damn exhausting.
posted by What a Joke at 11:57 AM on August 18, 2022


my "fuck you why be married at all" comes from a triggered, exaggerated perspective.

Oh hell no it does not. I think there's enough of your post history here to say, if your therapist is telling you it's unhealthy or dysfunctional for you to want to leave the marriage, WHOA, fuck them, why are you in therapy at all!
posted by MiraK at 11:59 AM on August 18, 2022 [11 favorites]


> To end things because this incompatibility has caused me to suffer too much, or because it's too much work to get to "good enough" for both of us, that's a different thing, and might be what is in everyone's best interest. But the reason for my "fuck you I'm outta here" is not coming from a particularly healthy place

Sometimes our brains and bodies do this thing known as "coping", i.e. a survival response, that is designed to save our lives from a very real danger. Coping usually comes with the worst rational reasons. It can often even be morally wrong when you sit down and write out the reasons why you are coping in a particular way. But coping generally ends up saving your life.

For example, when I was setting up a secret bank account into which I put in $30 or $40 every week for a year before I even started thinking of leaving my marriage? I was "coping". At the time I was doing that because I wanted to spite my husband. I knew it would drive him fucking nuts because he is such a tightwad and he haaaaaates not knowing where our money goes. In the end when I left the marriage I used that money to pay for consults with lawyers and part of my rent on a new apartment, getting all my ducks in a row before I told him I was leaving. Coping saved my life.

Even if your in-the-minute reasons are all wrong, leaving your marriage is absolutely the right thing to do and will save your life. Allow yourself to "cope" with this heavy decision in whatever way you need to, in order to make it happen. If that burst of crazy dysfunctional anger is what it takes to get you activated enough to do the healthy thing, SO BE IT. And honestly fuck your therapist for policing you to the extent that you feel you must perform perfection in the midst of the worst, shittiest, most horrible situation. She is controlling you in a super toxic manner by refusing to let you act on your persistent, strong gut feelings.
posted by MiraK at 12:20 PM on August 18, 2022 [8 favorites]


A secure partner would probably think, "wow, we continually have a terrible pattern that brings out the worst in each of us. As much as we love each other, I don't think we're healthy for each other. We should find relationships that are not so prone to triggering our issues."

This is the answer. I was you, OP, for almost nine years. It was completely. fucking. exhausting. Being single? Not exhausting.
posted by simonelikenina at 12:37 PM on August 18, 2022 [6 favorites]


Not gonna threadsit but I did want to point out that my "fuck you why be married at all" comes from a triggered, exaggerated perspective. My therapist has heard lots of play by play scenarios, and her point is that this is my fear of vulnerability wanting to cut off the sense of risk behind this type of thinking.

That may be the case when that is your gut reaction to one single "play-by-play-scenario." But when your reaction to a very dysfunctional marriage that has persisted in its dysfunction over time, despite all efforts, is to ask the question "why be in this marriage at all?" you are not asking from a triggered, exaggerated perspective. You are asking from the healthy perspective of a person with a secure attachment style.

To me it is not really reasonable to think of ending the relationship because my partner doesn't know how to face all the emotions he felt as a child before he shut it down to become more avoidantly adapted, that get stirred up when I bring up my needs.

To those who have a secure attachment style, this would be a very reasonable thing to think, and also act on.
posted by desert exile at 4:33 PM on August 18, 2022 [1 favorite]


Best answer: If I give it even 20 minutes from the initial request for him to get his bearings emotionally and get to the other side of his defensive impulses, before I have become activated into my anxious style stuff, he has actually really impressed me with his ability to integrate the history of what I've asked for.

Is this literal? As in a literal twenty minute break will allow him to be able to meet you where you are, but it is consistently too much for you and you begin a cycle of tears/anger about it? Which may be triggered by dirty socks on the floor?

I am an avoidant person - secure enough that I will tell my partner if I'm having A Day and need some space, or be able to talk about why I'm slow on text (and it's almost always because I have something else going on that I'm trying to process or I'm actually busy) which gives me the space to approach him with vulnerability. He also takes my talking through at face value - I can express that I was avoiding something, or freaking out about it, without him taking it as a rejection, because it was a part of the path I needed to walk to get to a better place.

Asking for reassurance and for support isn't wrong. Asking a partner to process relationship stuff with you isn't wrong. Some of us need more space to do that work, but will do it once we are there. But if we are backed into a corner before then, our processing is going to not be mutual and beneficial - I have to process being vulnerable through a bunch of trauma filters related to neurodiversity and gender and queerness and sex and all that. It can be something as stupidly simple as someone else recognising the depth of the relationship between my partner and I. For me it just explodes as a Big Feeling and scares me. Once I can process it through my internal stuff I can verbalise it as something other than an overwhelming need to hide my soft underbelly, or attack whatever is making me feel vulnerable (I don't do that as much anymore but have definitely been far more cutting and harsh in service of that tendency). Give me twenty minutes and I can go 'aw man I felt so vulnerable because it's so obvious I love you and my lizard brain doesn't like having weak spots but they aren't weak spots, you're there and love me too, so it does make us family' as opposed to pushing me on my startle face or quietness for a declaration which is much more likely to be 'why are they paying so much attention to me and my relationships, why didn't you stop them saying that, they're not family that's weird' (a combination of defense, attack, and wanting it to just stop).

I never ever want to do the latter so I always choose to process by myself first. Or with my therapist. I am used to my trauma brain being an absolute butthole and making connections that don't exist so I'm practiced at it. But the connections happen and I need time to work out just how much is trauma and how much is legit recognition of something.

Because my advice was gonna be having a cooling off time or whatever so he can do the avoidant mental judo without hurting your feelings in the process. But if twenty minutes is too much then it does sound like deeply incompatible approaches.
posted by geek anachronism at 7:17 PM on August 18, 2022 [4 favorites]


Best answer: Dear OP, this sounds like a distressing situation and you have my sympathy. I've been there before in relationships that brought out an intensely anxious/pursuer side of me with partners who were particularly avoidant (and where addiction and lying/gaslighting were factors). Others have advised that you allow yourself to consider ending this marriage, and I will say that in my own experience, I am no longer in relationships that are this fraught and I am SO MUCH happier and more relaxed.

BUT, that's not what you asked for. You asked for help recognizing and managing your own part of this pattern/dynamic, so I'm going to gently suggest that you establish and stick to some really firm boundaries around yourself/your reactions/your spiraling and also around your interactions with your spouse. Even in writing this question, it's clear that you're putting SO MUCH work and thought and effort and therapy into trying to get your needs met in this relationship. But actually you are at the point where you seem like you're sort of perseverating and spiraling in ways that are not helping you get the response you want from your spouse or your needs met. So, rather than think or work HARDER, my suggestion is just to give yourself permission to disengage, full stop, and do something else when you start to feel frustrated or disappointed. Don't talk to him, don't make decisions, don't think about the relationship, ideally you should do something physical and distracting with the goal of literally doing anything but think about your relationship. I know that sounds nuts. Obviously your brain wants you to believe that thinking about things MORE and asking in NEW and DIFFERENT ways is going to fix things. It's not, though. You already know this.

When you feel the cycle/spiral starting... Take a break. Go for a walk. Drink some water. Listen to Olivia Rodrigo really loudly on your headphones. Let yourself feel all that "f- this, I'm out of here, I'm done" stuff. It's ok to feel angry and disappointed and hurt when the person you love isn't able to meet your needs in the moment in the way you hope they would. It's just feelings, not facts or decisions or actions. After the break (at least 20 minutes, ideally longer, but you must train yourself not to think about or perseverate on the relationship during that time), maybe your spouse will surprise you by being able to connect and show up for you in the way you need him to. Or maybe he won't. That's useful information. That's information you can use to make a decision about where to go and what to do. But you've gotta interrupt this impulse to think/talk/therapize/argue your way to a solution. Give yourself and him a little breathing room, a little space, a little time.

And then, when you come back together, don't negotiate or make it a whole big thing. Keep the boundary in place. Tell him: "When you did X, I felt Y, and I am hoping for Z in response." Then, he either does Z or he doesn't. Again, that's useful information. A relationship should not be a constant negotiation for basic kindness and decency, nor should it be a chronic source of anguish and obsession. If he's doing things that are mean or hurtful, and you've pointed out how they make you feel, he can either make a choice to change the behavior or not. Don't let him tell you that he "wants to change but doesn't know how." If he's as invested as he says he is, he'll figure it out. He's a grown-up. Let him be responsible for himself. Stop trying to find the right wording to get him to treat you the way you know you deserve to be treated. Start treating yourself that way and see if he can follow suit.
posted by sleepingwithcats at 11:11 PM on August 18, 2022 [6 favorites]


I used to think I had an 'anxious' attachment style too, and my ex boyfriend was avoidant. I spent 5 years in that relationship, analysing it the way you analyse yours in this post, asking questions about it on reddit and going to therapy. I changed myself in a series of increments and my ex, who is still a good friend, changed under the pressure I put on him. Then it imploded and we broke up. A few months later I met my husband. I mean it literally when I say I have not had to analyse our relationship a single time in the 6 years we've been married. I feel completely secure in this relationship. I don't ever have to ask about it or talk about it, other than "yeah, we're going great."

My understanding is that attachment styles are not fixed, but are rather produced by the dynamics of certain relationships. Everything you wrote here made me anxious for you, and reminded me so much of my dysfunctional relationship with my ex. We loved each other, but we could not make it work. It was far too hard and our personalities were misaligned. It was really that simple.

I don't think this is a problem in yourself that you have to fix. It's a relationship problem and honestly, it is likely unfixable.
posted by thereader at 12:45 AM on August 19, 2022 [9 favorites]


Response by poster: Is this literal? As in a literal twenty minute break will allow him to be able to meet you where you are, but it is consistently too much for you and you begin a cycle of tears/anger about it? Which may be triggered by dirty socks on the floor?

Basically, yes sometimes-to-often that is true. If he storms off as soon as he can sense I am upset, vs communicating a need for a structured time out with intention to return within a reasonable timeframe, then sometimes I flip my lid because he has not kept a consistent structure to that sort of behavior, blending "processing time" with stonewalling so there's no baseline safety/trust that he will return in good faith. He used to run off and hide for 3 days when I would express a grievance. In the beginning I was scared but attempted to be gentle in asking him to come back - he just wouldn't - so I started getting angry because avoidance tends to escalate shit as I am sure other avoidant types have noticed.

Within the last year or two, if he leaves with win/win boundaries explicitly communicated around his departure, OR if I focus on staying grounded in my resourced adult self no matter how poorly he handles his need to take a moment alone, then I can more easily accept his disappearance. When I do not pursue, he returns within an hour, often sooner and makes a strong effort to give whatever feedback he understands me to be seeking from him. I have been working on not getting mad that he left the insecurity-promoting way when he finally does try to communicate, but it's hard.

I should add that we both have ADHD and all of this is worse later in the day when our meds have worn off. He struggles to control the impulse to run off, and to regulate himself enough to communicate any structure for his disappearance, and vice versa for the emotion regulation and impulse control. We have a young child so only having these discussions when meds are working isn't realistic as we often have to wait til the child is in bed to talk about anything serious.

I am not going to respond anymore to respect community guidelines but if anyone else asks a question, please keep an eye on your MeMail as I might answer it there. Thank you to those that have been answering the questions I actually asked.
posted by What a Joke at 6:21 AM on August 19, 2022 [1 favorite]


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