Why can't I have a washer/dryer...or can I?

August 6, 2022 8:54 AM

I live in a condo building that was originally built to be rentals. That means there are no in-suite washers or dryers allowed. I've heard this is something to do with the plumbing in-units not being suitable for washing machines. What might this mean? And might it not be true anymore?

What I've heard is that the drain pipes would get clogged by washing machines because...? Lint? I'm not really sure. That pipes for laundry require special filters or something? I'm just spewing keywords here. Is there anyone who knows enough about this stuff that the keywords cohere into an explanation? Presumably whatever it is would be based on having a steady volume of laundry because you can obviously hand wash things in your unit.

Second, this building was built decades ago and the no-in-suite laundry rule was made back then. I wonder if washing machine technology has changed and maybe now washing machines are different? Have filters? Clothes are different? Detergents are different? Is there anything that has changed in the past decades that might make this rule no longer necessary (or modifiable -- like "you can get a washing machine but it has to have feature X or meet standard Y" or whatever).

Note that there are laundry rooms on each floor they require HE detergent, so the development of HE detergent is not it. The powers that be definitely know about HE detergent.

posted by If only I had a penguin... to Grab Bag (23 answers total)

I mean, typically a washer needs to have supply lines and a drain line and a vent. Is there a suitable place near existing plumbing for the machines to go?
posted by amanda at 9:11 AM on August 6, 2022 [3 favorites]

typically a washer needs to have supply lines and a drain line and a vent

These days, only the first two, although not everyone loves a ventless (dryer).

I think you also need a 240-volt outlet, at least for most.
posted by praemunire at 9:25 AM on August 6, 2022

It's most likely that the building doesn't have 240 V service and necessary ductwork for venting from every unit. Washers and dryers are also heavy and noisy.

The LG condenser washer/dryer we have runs for a single 120 V outlet and has a wastewater filter. It's heavy and was stunningly expensive (much more than new single washer + single dryer) but uses far less power and water. It dries clothes properly: there seems to be a MeFi hate-on for condensers based on fear and uncertainty.

While it might be possible to convince your condo to let you have a condenser washer/dryer, modern (i.e., not water-hogging North American disasters of tub washers) washers may require a minor plumbing upgrade to prevent annoyance to other residents. Unlike old washers that gush in a load of water, agitate, then drain, modern washers sip tiny amounts, opening and closing the water valve very frequently. Old piping may not like that, propagating water hammer throughout the building. You may need a suppressor fitted near your appliance to keep the neighbours happy.
posted by scruss at 9:42 AM on August 6, 2022 [1 favorite]

Best answer: I think it's usually less to do with the plumbing, more that building management doesn't want to deal with noise complaints and water damage (a washer is one more thing that can/will leak). Same reason rental apartments are less likely to have garbage disposals.

Given that the building wasn't set up for it, you probably don't have a drain line appropriate for a washer. US and Canadian code apparently requires a two-inch drainpipe and trap. I have had portable washers that drained into the kitchen sink or tub and that worked out OK!
posted by mskyle at 10:18 AM on August 6, 2022 [3 favorites]

~typically a washer needs to have supply lines and a drain line and a vent
~These days, only the first two, although not everyone loves a ventless (dryer).

I took the “vent” to be a reference to the air vent (or “stack”) found in most drain lines (and not a dryer vent). Those large uncapped pipes you see sticking up though a roof. It helps drain lines flow out properly. You definitely need one on the washer drain line. Otherwise, you would definitely get water flowing back out of the drain.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:26 AM on August 6, 2022 [2 favorites]

Usually these restrictions are in place to combat water leaks. Any residence with a toilet has the plumbing required for a washer. Whether that plumbing is close enough to allow a washer installation is a different issue. Electrically their might not be physical or power space to install a 240v 30a dryer but even then a power mizer can be used to share a cicuit with a range if one is determined.
posted by Mitheral at 10:52 AM on August 6, 2022

Do you have a dishwasher in your unit? If so, you might be able to convince them to let you swap that out for a washer, if you were willing to do that. (Then you would need to decide if a combo unit like the LG one struss talks about would work for you, or if you would need to try to arm twist them into allowing a ventless dryer as well.) With laundry rooms on every floor though, it might not make the best sense to give up a dishwasher?
posted by gudrun at 10:57 AM on August 6, 2022

Yeah, it’s less about being “allowed” and more about having the proper electrical (240 volts) and sewer hookups. If your apartment doesn’t have those, you cannot install a washer/dryer, full stop — it will get delivered and there will be nowhere for it to plug in and nowhere for the water to drain or the dryer air to vent.

Short of convincing your landlord to install the hookups (which is expensive) there’s nothing that can be done.

On the other hand there are “portable” washer units that can wash a few clothing items at a time and drain into your sink, which you could theoretically buy, but those are a very different experience from using a regular washer and don’t work very well from what I’ve heard.
posted by mekily at 11:24 AM on August 6, 2022 [2 favorites]

I live in a condo building with the same rule, mainly because 1) it's an older building that supposedly can't handle the excess water load and 2) because water is covered in our HOA fees, we'd have to raise the fees for everyone to cover the costs of some people having washers and dryers in their units.

To me, a washer is another thing that can leak into my unit and possibly into someone else's unit, so I am good with the rule, especially since we have really nice and easily accessed laundry facilities in our building.

But you'd probably have to talk your condo board into allowing everyone to have a washer and dryer in order to change the rules, which might bring up building issues/prior incidents you hadn't expected.
posted by heurtebise at 11:40 AM on August 6, 2022

Adding a Washer & Dryer primer has condo remodel info.
How We Installed a W/D in a NYC apartment has troubleshooting.
Are the common laundry rooms coin-op (a source of income)?
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:10 PM on August 6, 2022

there seems to be a MeFi hate-on for condensers based on fear and uncertainty.

I have one. Can't say I'm a fan. (Though it's still better than not having one at all.)

My apartment has a sort of leak sensor mat that lives under/behind the (stacked) units to alert if something goes horribly wrong. Might help with management anxieties.
posted by praemunire at 12:22 PM on August 6, 2022

Having a washer in a unit increases the flood risk significantly. Having a dryer increases the fire risk somewhat. I suspect that this is largely the reason your building is in no hurry to add this feature to individual units.
posted by davey_darling at 12:32 PM on August 6, 2022

My NYC co-op is over a century old and after lengthy discussions we opted to not allow further installation of washing machines about 15 years ago. The reasoning was we didn’t want to tax the waterlines if say four apartments (out of six floors) in a single line all had loads going at once.

That said, we do have a large communal laundry room in the basement and we don’t use it as an income generator, so the price per load is very affordable.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 12:55 PM on August 6, 2022 [1 favorite]

If flooding is a big concern you can get water alarms to put on the floor under anything that might leak. The simplest ones are just battery operated and beep when the sensor gets wet (lie a smoke alarm). The more fancy ones will text your phone to let you know.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 1:14 PM on August 6, 2022

Re: flooding...I would be shocked if state/local code didn’t require the washer to sit in a catch pan, which would necessitate an additional drain run which would mean extra plumbing.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:37 PM on August 6, 2022

You absolutely can get wee portable apartment washers that work in the bathtub, a neighbor of mine had one (I believe it was this inexpensive model). If your apartment is warm and dry enough, you can just do what virtually every European apartment-dweller does, and hang clothes to dry.
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 3:46 PM on August 6, 2022

Response by poster: That stuff about the code for drains seem likely the thing. Note that in addition to the pipe width there are requirements about the slope of the drains which I imagine would be difficult thing to change. I don' think it's about the electricity since nothing stops me from hiring an electrician and putting in a new circuit and a 240v plug. I mean if I put in a washer and dryer it would require renovation regardless to get the drain pipes hooked up and would probably have to put in a new plug on a new circuit even if it were just 120v.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:40 PM on August 6, 2022

I’m an owner in a building. My strata had engineers do an assessment. Before the 80s, they used 2” pipes in some stacks, not 4”. So it turns out to be a legit problem.
posted by shockpoppet at 9:32 PM on August 6, 2022 [1 favorite]

I can't understand why that would be a problem though. I'm not in the US but certainly here all washing machines discharge into a drain pipe that usually connects near the nearest sink, with an anti siphon valve. You don't even need 2", works completely fine with 40mm or even 32mm outlet waste pipe. It's only exactly the same stuff as would exit your sink drain if you were to hand wash your clothes in the sink.

That said, I could understand apartment buildings implementing no washing machine bans because of flooding. Many rentals here specify no washing machines other than on the ground floor for exactly that reason.
posted by tillsbury at 12:39 AM on August 7, 2022 [1 favorite]

Yeah I had the same problem in an old condo building. There wasn't a suitable drain line, and when we asked about refurbing (my unit and the unit directly upstairs from me, so we could both use it) we were reminded that the building had shared water heaters so it wasn't really feasible to add multiple washing machines to the usage. (That may not apply to you but the drain line thing does.)
posted by restless_nomad at 5:28 AM on August 7, 2022

I took the “vent” to be a reference to the air vent (or “stack”) found in most drain lines (and not a dryer vent).

Almost all washing machines before the 1980s or so were ventless, and you can buy 'hidden' vent lines that vent into your house because adding a vent stack is relatively expensive. Vents are nice to have, but not required especially for a washer that uses power and not just gravity to drain. Also washers are 120v, a normal outlet like a lamp.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:37 AM on August 8, 2022

I'd actually say a dryer would be far easier to add, because you could have any electrician install a 240 volt outlet (just lie and say its for your oven, which your apartment probably has) and vent it out a door or window.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:39 AM on August 8, 2022

In the UK, it is extremely common to have combination wash/dry units in the kitchen or sometimes in the bath. They use a standard tap source in, and drain no more dramatically than your kitchen sink or tub would. They do not need a vent because they use a condensing dryer. They are almost all front-loaders designed to fit under cabinetry like a dishwasher does.

A condensing dryer is all but guaranteed (at least in what used to be a rainy UK—we're in a drought right now with humidity at 18% for some reason) to need some hang-dry time in the sun or even just an airing cupboard. Of course even here most airing cupboards have a gas combination boiler crammed into them, so we just hang things by radiators and windows and hope for the best.

You may be surprised to notice how quickly a bit of direct sunlight, even through a window during winter, will remove stains that expensive chemical solvents couldn't touch!

And yes, I suppose the fact that we have 13A 240V outlets everywhere probably makes this somewhat easier.

Anyway this reminds me: I need to do a load of blacks at 30°...
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 2:04 PM on August 8, 2022