Where are the dads?
July 20, 2022 9:00 AM Subscribe
What are the dads doing? I'm a new dad living in an extremely liberal urban area and it just seems like a little bit of 50s? Dads are much less likely at the playgrounds with the kids, they're rarely chatting in neighborhood parent whatsapp groups or parent facebook groups, they are never trying to meet up with other dads or kids. Their wives even join whatsapp and facebook groups on BEHALF of their husbands to get them to engage. Is this normal in your area? I'm just a bit surprised.
I'm a dad who almost always goes to the playground, tries to engage on these whatsapp groups, and would like to meet other dads. Sometimes I feel a bit weird. I have thoughts on making things better, but just wanted to see other Mefis experiences.
I'm a dad who almost always goes to the playground, tries to engage on these whatsapp groups, and would like to meet other dads. Sometimes I feel a bit weird. I have thoughts on making things better, but just wanted to see other Mefis experiences.
I don't know. I personally don't enjoy those neighborhood groups and have separate texting groups with the 4-5 other dads I coordinate the most with. They seem to feel similarly. Even if you don't see as many fathers as you want to at the park, work with what you have and get to know their friends until you've found people with whom you get along well. Moving is never easy, but I bet you'll be well integrated a year from now.
posted by michaelh at 9:09 AM on July 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by michaelh at 9:09 AM on July 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Around here dads are frequently represented at the playground but yeah, the online groups are all moms. It's not great.
posted by quaking fajita at 9:10 AM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by quaking fajita at 9:10 AM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Here in the suburbs of New England, I know that some dads have joined the Masons lodge here in town, and someone stood up a new Knights of Columbus chapter. I used to see dads at Scout activities until my sons aged out. I see dads coaching sports teams. I see dads at the crossfit place and I hear them shooting their guns at the local "sportsman's club."
But those guys are mostly indulging their own interests: I don't see quite as many dads as moms volunteering at the community farm, and basically zero volunteering in the schools.
Online I am a cheerful member of the neighborhood FB group, and IRL am on two boards of town organizations.
It might be your area? Is there a lot of turnover -- or very little?
posted by wenestvedt at 9:12 AM on July 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
But those guys are mostly indulging their own interests: I don't see quite as many dads as moms volunteering at the community farm, and basically zero volunteering in the schools.
Online I am a cheerful member of the neighborhood FB group, and IRL am on two boards of town organizations.
It might be your area? Is there a lot of turnover -- or very little?
posted by wenestvedt at 9:12 AM on July 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
This was my experience also as a dad in coastal Southern California. Mostly it was moms at the playground and I had a hard time getting into the parent scene there.
posted by number9dream at 9:12 AM on July 20, 2022
posted by number9dream at 9:12 AM on July 20, 2022
I would say in my similar area, there are a decent number of dads at the playground - also if you're going during the week, you might be seeing nannies rather than moms. We have a daycare class messenger group that the dads definitely engage in, but I don't see the dads online very much. My husband spends him time on other social media platforms that are not geared towards local parenting. Meetups are often organized by common activities rather than through social media groups.
posted by DoubleLune at 9:14 AM on July 20, 2022
posted by DoubleLune at 9:14 AM on July 20, 2022
I'm a dad, full time for now. When kiddo was 0-2 (in ATX), I tired to chat with moms at the park but they almost universally shunned me. I mostly gave up. I don't frequent parent spaces online bc I don't have many questions about parenting or answers for others. Gender biases are real and deep, and those spaces tend to be coded against stereotypical idiot/deadbeat dads from yogurt commercials for white people, so a lot of them aren't really wanting to hear from me anyway.
I have a few mom and dad friends I've met around the neighborhood (in the Midwest), some of them I met by saying 'hi I'm your neighbor we have similar age kids'. I'm out with kiddo doing biking or hiking etc most days when the weather is nice, and that's my main way to meet new parent people.
posted by SaltySalticid at 9:15 AM on July 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
I have a few mom and dad friends I've met around the neighborhood (in the Midwest), some of them I met by saying 'hi I'm your neighbor we have similar age kids'. I'm out with kiddo doing biking or hiking etc most days when the weather is nice, and that's my main way to meet new parent people.
posted by SaltySalticid at 9:15 AM on July 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
This dad lives in a liberal city and I hang with my kid a bunch, but really hate talking to other dads, especially about dad things.
Interacting as “dad” to anyone other than my own kid is goddamn exhausting, and fraught with all sorts of judgement, misalignments in parenting styles, expectations, etc.
I have friends who happen to be dads, but we do not interact as that being our primary identifier.
posted by furnace.heart at 9:23 AM on July 20, 2022 [12 favorites]
Interacting as “dad” to anyone other than my own kid is goddamn exhausting, and fraught with all sorts of judgement, misalignments in parenting styles, expectations, etc.
I have friends who happen to be dads, but we do not interact as that being our primary identifier.
posted by furnace.heart at 9:23 AM on July 20, 2022 [12 favorites]
My experience as a dad in a very liberal urban area has been that the best way to connect with other engaged dads has been through daycare. Dads at the playgrounds tend to keep to themselves more than the moms, for whatever reason. I generally interact with other caretakers if our kids are playing together, but personally I don't really have the energy to deal with two under-5s and also engage with strangers for an extended period.
I will say, though, that having a dads-only online space isn't really a thing that I've seen. It's either both dads and moms, or moms-only. There are a bunch of moms groups but not very many dads groups. The one time I was engaged by another dad at a playground regarding an online dads space was when my toddler was having a meltdown over not wanting to go to the potty (she had already peed her pants and needed to be changed), and the dad walked up to me and gave me a card for some online dads support group and implied that I needed help to be a better parent. That left a very bad taste in my mouth and I never even considered joining it.
posted by kdar at 9:50 AM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I will say, though, that having a dads-only online space isn't really a thing that I've seen. It's either both dads and moms, or moms-only. There are a bunch of moms groups but not very many dads groups. The one time I was engaged by another dad at a playground regarding an online dads space was when my toddler was having a meltdown over not wanting to go to the potty (she had already peed her pants and needed to be changed), and the dad walked up to me and gave me a card for some online dads support group and implied that I needed help to be a better parent. That left a very bad taste in my mouth and I never even considered joining it.
posted by kdar at 9:50 AM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
The dad in our family has made all of his connections with other dads at daycare. He doesn't hang out online in dad groups or try to make friends with other playground parents (I'm the Mom and neither do I). But he's willing to make the friend investment in daycare dads bc all of our kids have/will go to school together for about 5 years and we live in the same walking radius of daycare.
posted by neematoad at 10:16 AM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by neematoad at 10:16 AM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Maybe it's getting better, but in 1999 when I was taking my 1-year old daughter to swimming activities, we made up a song that we would sing... "Swimming, swimming, swimming with the women". This was because, I was the ONLY dad who attended.
That was in metro Vancouver, which is/was about as liberal/aware/progressing/woke as could be in Canada at that time.
It was only 6-7 years later when my son was about 4-5 that I started seeing more dads participate, but still very rare...
Once school field trips and volunteering started happening, I was always the only dad. (And I worked full-time, but was remote and had the ability to flex-my-schedule as necessary.)
My solution was always to reach out to the very few who did attend in person - and I still maintain friendships with some, even though our children are grown and no longer friends themselves.
posted by rozcakj at 10:17 AM on July 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
That was in metro Vancouver, which is/was about as liberal/aware/progressing/woke as could be in Canada at that time.
It was only 6-7 years later when my son was about 4-5 that I started seeing more dads participate, but still very rare...
Once school field trips and volunteering started happening, I was always the only dad. (And I worked full-time, but was remote and had the ability to flex-my-schedule as necessary.)
My solution was always to reach out to the very few who did attend in person - and I still maintain friendships with some, even though our children are grown and no longer friends themselves.
posted by rozcakj at 10:17 AM on July 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
I met the Dads through my wife who met about 7 moms and formed a playgroup. On the weekends, I would hook up with a few of the dads and do dad and kid things. THis was when my kids were 1, 2, and 3.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:20 AM on July 20, 2022
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:20 AM on July 20, 2022
Fellow dad in a liberal city (Brooklyn). I see other dads at the playground, and I'm in a specifically dad-focused online group. I fell away from any general parenting online groups - it very quickly became clear that they were mom groups in all but name.
posted by Ragged Richard at 10:24 AM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Ragged Richard at 10:24 AM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Playground-Dads on weekends is the most common thing in my area. I'm a mom in an extremely liberal urban area and, yeah, it's still very regressive. Financial inequity, even at the double-income level, is real and continues to drive men toward work (and being "too busy" for childcare and the myriad associated tasks of raising a child) and women to flex jobs that pay at least enough to cover childcare. Everyone's left shrugging their shoulders because it makes logical sense for the lower-paid spouse to handle "kid stuff" which as you know arises at all hours on all days. It het couples, that's almost always the woman.
My youngest is finishing up elementary school and I can say that it's been the same from early elementary to high school years, in both public and private school settings. There are a few dads at the middle-school and junior-high level (less than 5%) who consistently and actively participate in volunteer stuff. Looking back, I would say the largest cohort of Dad-participants was first-time dads at the preschool and early ed levels. There's a lot of good intention, and a lot of unknowns, and the dads seem to get engaged. But after some parenting fear recedes and the Sisyphean nature of raising a child kicks in, most dads seem to melt into the shadows. When organized sports start at a level where there are quantifiable stakes, I begin to see dads involved again (i.e., not micro-soccer, but middle school and more like 8th grade and high school).
My practice as an equality-minded parent has been to always communicate with both parents with any child-related info (playdates, parties, questions about school, health, etc.). There are some close friends of both my kids whose dads have never once replied to emails.
I'm sorry to hear that dads have felt unwelcome from moms. Personally I love to meet involved dads and usually prefer to talk about things other than kids.
posted by cocoagirl at 10:26 AM on July 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
My youngest is finishing up elementary school and I can say that it's been the same from early elementary to high school years, in both public and private school settings. There are a few dads at the middle-school and junior-high level (less than 5%) who consistently and actively participate in volunteer stuff. Looking back, I would say the largest cohort of Dad-participants was first-time dads at the preschool and early ed levels. There's a lot of good intention, and a lot of unknowns, and the dads seem to get engaged. But after some parenting fear recedes and the Sisyphean nature of raising a child kicks in, most dads seem to melt into the shadows. When organized sports start at a level where there are quantifiable stakes, I begin to see dads involved again (i.e., not micro-soccer, but middle school and more like 8th grade and high school).
My practice as an equality-minded parent has been to always communicate with both parents with any child-related info (playdates, parties, questions about school, health, etc.). There are some close friends of both my kids whose dads have never once replied to emails.
I'm sorry to hear that dads have felt unwelcome from moms. Personally I love to meet involved dads and usually prefer to talk about things other than kids.
posted by cocoagirl at 10:26 AM on July 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
I have a toddler and, like quaking fajita, I'm in Canada. Here, I find pretty good representation of dads on the playground, in daycare dropoff/pickup, in the parent that takes the toddler to swimming lessons. Maybe not quite 50% but something close to 40%.
I am Extremely Online, but participating more in the general parenting groups does not really appeal for various reasons, some of which have already been mentioned. I often feel like I don't have a lot in common with the others in these groups. There are Slack workspaces for people in my professional situation which have parenting channels, which I participate in fairly actively, as do a number of other dads.
posted by grouse at 10:37 AM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I am Extremely Online, but participating more in the general parenting groups does not really appeal for various reasons, some of which have already been mentioned. I often feel like I don't have a lot in common with the others in these groups. There are Slack workspaces for people in my professional situation which have parenting channels, which I participate in fairly actively, as do a number of other dads.
posted by grouse at 10:37 AM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
There are three things at work in my case. First, I'm pretty shy. We have become pretty good friends with some other families from our daycare, but they were all at my wife's initiation. I handle the daycare dropoff and pickup, and I'd been interacting with these people for literal years without thinking to expand the friendship relationship beyond that. I have a pretty comprehensive mental picture of the social graph of our daycare - which kids' parents are divorced, which kids have siblings, which kids have parents in jail (!), which parents are the primary caregivers, which parents resent their co-parents for not taking on more of the care, etc. But the notion of interacting outside of the daycare is... just foreign. One day I was sick or something and couldn't pick up the kids, so my wife did. She came back with like three phone numbers and we had playdates scheduled for that weekend. That just seems weird to me. My kids literally could've aged out of daycare before I'd initiate a "let's hang out" conversation with another parent. But that's not unique to daycare. I don't initiate stuff like that anywhere else, either. The vast majority of my friends remain people I met in college twenty years ago. If a co-worker suggests hanging out, I'm happy to, but I generally wouldn't take the lead there. Once a co-worker has initiated it, I'm fine initiating subsequent activities, but never first.
Second, a lot of online spaces, especially, are branded as being for moms, not moms and dads. My old job had a #[name of company]moms Slack channel, for example. I asked to participate, because I heard they shared a lot of suggestions for kid-friendly places to go, but I wasn't allowed. Similarly, our town's Facebook group is [name of town] Moms. That seems to be the case a lot of places. I don't get the sense that a lot of the members are interested in having dads join the groups, and I don't begrudge them that - the group can function as a female-only safe space. So I don't push the issue. Again, I'm naturally shy, so it doesn't feel particularly weird to me.
Third, I... kind of prefer my own kids. I like a lot of the kids from the daycare, and from swimming/soccer/running/ballet/the various other activities, where I'm almost always in attendance. But like, I'd rather spend time with my own kids. And due to my natural shyness, the way it usually works out, if we're with another family, either at a scheduled activity or just at a playdate, my wife ends up chatting with the other parent(s) and I ended up being the chaperone for all the kids, making sure they don't run out into parking lots or fall into sewers or whatever else kids can figure out how to do. I'd rather spend that time one-on-one (or two-on-one, as it were) with just my kids, not with their friends, you know?
I tend to prefer incorporating my kids into my day. My wife usually goes to the grocery either while the kids are in daycare or after they've gone to bed, so she can get what she needs efficiently. I, on the other hand, absolutely love taking the kids to the store with me. Or to the bookstore, or Home Depot, or wherever else I happen to be going that day. I'd take my kids to work with me if I could. I don't pay attention, but I wonder if you'd see more dads with their kids if you looked for them at places like that.
This was one personal anecdote, take it for what you will.
I will point out that, of the five kids we've become closest to from daycare, three are being raised by single moms. In one of those cases, the dad has gone no-contact, and another is a single woman who adopted her kids without a male partner. Another kid at daycare's bio-dad just got murdered, so there's another absence, although that kid was in foster care by the time it happened. But yeah, a lot of dads just aren't in the picture, and even ones who are might be divorced and not have custody.
posted by kevinbelt at 10:42 AM on July 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Second, a lot of online spaces, especially, are branded as being for moms, not moms and dads. My old job had a #[name of company]moms Slack channel, for example. I asked to participate, because I heard they shared a lot of suggestions for kid-friendly places to go, but I wasn't allowed. Similarly, our town's Facebook group is [name of town] Moms. That seems to be the case a lot of places. I don't get the sense that a lot of the members are interested in having dads join the groups, and I don't begrudge them that - the group can function as a female-only safe space. So I don't push the issue. Again, I'm naturally shy, so it doesn't feel particularly weird to me.
Third, I... kind of prefer my own kids. I like a lot of the kids from the daycare, and from swimming/soccer/running/ballet/the various other activities, where I'm almost always in attendance. But like, I'd rather spend time with my own kids. And due to my natural shyness, the way it usually works out, if we're with another family, either at a scheduled activity or just at a playdate, my wife ends up chatting with the other parent(s) and I ended up being the chaperone for all the kids, making sure they don't run out into parking lots or fall into sewers or whatever else kids can figure out how to do. I'd rather spend that time one-on-one (or two-on-one, as it were) with just my kids, not with their friends, you know?
I tend to prefer incorporating my kids into my day. My wife usually goes to the grocery either while the kids are in daycare or after they've gone to bed, so she can get what she needs efficiently. I, on the other hand, absolutely love taking the kids to the store with me. Or to the bookstore, or Home Depot, or wherever else I happen to be going that day. I'd take my kids to work with me if I could. I don't pay attention, but I wonder if you'd see more dads with their kids if you looked for them at places like that.
This was one personal anecdote, take it for what you will.
I will point out that, of the five kids we've become closest to from daycare, three are being raised by single moms. In one of those cases, the dad has gone no-contact, and another is a single woman who adopted her kids without a male partner. Another kid at daycare's bio-dad just got murdered, so there's another absence, although that kid was in foster care by the time it happened. But yeah, a lot of dads just aren't in the picture, and even ones who are might be divorced and not have custody.
posted by kevinbelt at 10:42 AM on July 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
FWIW, back when I was a stay-at-home dad, I would take my 4-5-year-old daughter to playgrounds, parks, or to do some grocery shopping, and I was, more than once, the target of some withering side-eye from the moms who were there. It was like I was being very closely watched, just in case I was up to some nefarious business. It really made me limit the outings.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:01 AM on July 20, 2022
posted by Thorzdad at 11:01 AM on July 20, 2022
In my area, the dads are:
- at school/daycare/preschool pick up or drop off, especially at drop off for elementary, but for daycare preschool it was definitely both pick ups and drop offs, and the pick ups were more sociable
- at the playground on the weekends
- at activities like soccer, gymnastics, swimming (this is a great time for chatting, because there's a lot of waiting around and then it's pretty regular)
- participating in PTO stuff at the elementary school (some of this is *aimed* at dads, some is not), more often the special events than the weekly in-class volunteering
- sometimes the parent at birthday parties
I have chatted with dads in all of these circumstances. As a woman, I am more likely to follow through on communicating with other women but I've pressed my husband into following up with other dads and he even has followed up with some moms where we knew people in common. But I have totally enjoyed chatting with dads.
The more you participate in these, the more other dads will be like, "Oh good, sandmanwv is here, too." If you get the sense that your child gets along with another child and you have access to that child's parent, you can mention getting together for a playdate or activity you like. For activities, you could say, like, "Hey, we like to do X after swimming class in case you like to join us." For playground time, you could just say, "We're usually here around 4pm on Sundays."
posted by vunder at 11:03 AM on July 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
- at school/daycare/preschool pick up or drop off, especially at drop off for elementary, but for daycare preschool it was definitely both pick ups and drop offs, and the pick ups were more sociable
- at the playground on the weekends
- at activities like soccer, gymnastics, swimming (this is a great time for chatting, because there's a lot of waiting around and then it's pretty regular)
- participating in PTO stuff at the elementary school (some of this is *aimed* at dads, some is not), more often the special events than the weekly in-class volunteering
- sometimes the parent at birthday parties
I have chatted with dads in all of these circumstances. As a woman, I am more likely to follow through on communicating with other women but I've pressed my husband into following up with other dads and he even has followed up with some moms where we knew people in common. But I have totally enjoyed chatting with dads.
The more you participate in these, the more other dads will be like, "Oh good, sandmanwv is here, too." If you get the sense that your child gets along with another child and you have access to that child's parent, you can mention getting together for a playdate or activity you like. For activities, you could say, like, "Hey, we like to do X after swimming class in case you like to join us." For playground time, you could just say, "We're usually here around 4pm on Sundays."
posted by vunder at 11:03 AM on July 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm a dad in a very liberal area. I see other dads at the playgrounds, pushing strollers, and at daycare pickup and drop-off. We don't do much else with our kid because of COVID.
I never considered joining a Facebook group. From what I hear from my neighbor it's mainly people getting rid of toys and gear (we've got plenty, and family to pass it along to) and discussions about herbal remedies, so there's not much appeal. She calls it the Facebook Moms group and I don't actually know if it's open to all parents.
I've never gotten side-eye when I'm out with my daughter, FWIW. Moms, dads, and kids have been happy to chat with us at the playgrounds. But there's about a dozen that we go to (we like long walks) so I don't have the sense of seeing the regulars.
posted by hydrophonic at 11:18 AM on July 20, 2022
I never considered joining a Facebook group. From what I hear from my neighbor it's mainly people getting rid of toys and gear (we've got plenty, and family to pass it along to) and discussions about herbal remedies, so there's not much appeal. She calls it the Facebook Moms group and I don't actually know if it's open to all parents.
I've never gotten side-eye when I'm out with my daughter, FWIW. Moms, dads, and kids have been happy to chat with us at the playgrounds. But there's about a dozen that we go to (we like long walks) so I don't have the sense of seeing the regulars.
posted by hydrophonic at 11:18 AM on July 20, 2022
For me, it was much easier once my kids started elementary school.
I am not really an active participant in online communities other than this one, but lurk on the FB group for parents of the kids' school, PTA/teacher/club twitter accounts, etc. to at least know what's going on on that front.
A bigger factor is we are fortunate to have several families with similar age kids in our immediate vicinity, so the parents all became friendly once the kids all started riding the bus together. Now, all of the kids and parents are out nearly every night after dinner when the weather isn't terrible, the dads have a running text message group, a standing "play date" at the library on Saturday mornings without the moms, etc.
Sadly, of the 4 families on our street, only 1 has a mom in a full time paid career job vs. all 4 dads so the moms still do the bulk of day trips with the kids, etc. ☹
posted by hankscorpio83 at 11:32 AM on July 20, 2022
I am not really an active participant in online communities other than this one, but lurk on the FB group for parents of the kids' school, PTA/teacher/club twitter accounts, etc. to at least know what's going on on that front.
A bigger factor is we are fortunate to have several families with similar age kids in our immediate vicinity, so the parents all became friendly once the kids all started riding the bus together. Now, all of the kids and parents are out nearly every night after dinner when the weather isn't terrible, the dads have a running text message group, a standing "play date" at the library on Saturday mornings without the moms, etc.
Sadly, of the 4 families on our street, only 1 has a mom in a full time paid career job vs. all 4 dads so the moms still do the bulk of day trips with the kids, etc. ☹
posted by hankscorpio83 at 11:32 AM on July 20, 2022
My left coast playground has plenty of dads in it (at least in the evening) but they are not involved in the (ennnndddddllleeessss) logistical stuff of kids' social, caretaking and educational arrangements (including the boards where moms research) at all. There are a couple on the PTA board.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:37 AM on July 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:37 AM on July 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm a dad. I'm happy to go to the playground. I'm happy to take my kids to stuff. I'm happy to volunteer at school. I even do a spirit thing at the elementary school with other dads every Friday to assist with student dropoff, ostensibly run by the school PTA.
There is no way I'm joining any neighborhood facebook groups.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:57 AM on July 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
There is no way I'm joining any neighborhood facebook groups.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:57 AM on July 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Weirdly, just yesterday my neighbor (dad) was venting to me (male, childless) about this exact topic!
We have a park nearby, and apparently every time he goes as soon as his toddler is away and playing, he gets clearly tagged as "potential molester" when he's sitting on the bench; enough so that he frequently calls his kid back to him in order to display his dad-ness to the moms nearby (implicit "I'm not a molester, that's my daughter, see how she happily refers to me as daddy without my prompting?"). When I say "tagged as molester" I mean literally moms calling their children back when they get "too close" to him; I assume he's telling the truth as he perceives it, anyway.
Another problem he complained about was the fact that all child service providers (school, dentists, doctors, etc.) insist on contacting the high-performing full-time employed mother rather than him (stay-at-home father), even after he's told them to contact him instead.
For the former, I had no real suggestions other than trying to be really outgoing when another father is at the park, just playing the odds of eventually connecting with one of them. Like speed-dating, except for fellow parents (ugh).
For the latter, I suggested foregrounding the matter with the provider -- that is to say, openly imply they're being sexist ("is there a particular reason why you refuse to contact me, the primary care provider, instead of my wife who is busy working?"). I also suggested that perhaps his wife would have to make the request for it to be obeyed (only the mom can delegate the mom-role -- perhaps I should suggest his wife ask other mothers about dad-groups and the like?).
I dunno, the stay-at-home father role seems to be really isolating for him; I'm definitely going to point him to this thread so that if nothing else he knows other people feel the same way.
posted by aramaic at 12:00 PM on July 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
We have a park nearby, and apparently every time he goes as soon as his toddler is away and playing, he gets clearly tagged as "potential molester" when he's sitting on the bench; enough so that he frequently calls his kid back to him in order to display his dad-ness to the moms nearby (implicit "I'm not a molester, that's my daughter, see how she happily refers to me as daddy without my prompting?"). When I say "tagged as molester" I mean literally moms calling their children back when they get "too close" to him; I assume he's telling the truth as he perceives it, anyway.
Another problem he complained about was the fact that all child service providers (school, dentists, doctors, etc.) insist on contacting the high-performing full-time employed mother rather than him (stay-at-home father), even after he's told them to contact him instead.
For the former, I had no real suggestions other than trying to be really outgoing when another father is at the park, just playing the odds of eventually connecting with one of them. Like speed-dating, except for fellow parents (ugh).
For the latter, I suggested foregrounding the matter with the provider -- that is to say, openly imply they're being sexist ("is there a particular reason why you refuse to contact me, the primary care provider, instead of my wife who is busy working?"). I also suggested that perhaps his wife would have to make the request for it to be obeyed (only the mom can delegate the mom-role -- perhaps I should suggest his wife ask other mothers about dad-groups and the like?).
I dunno, the stay-at-home father role seems to be really isolating for him; I'm definitely going to point him to this thread so that if nothing else he knows other people feel the same way.
posted by aramaic at 12:00 PM on July 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
Most of the fathers I know have connected to others through their kids (girls and boys) being in scouting organizations or their church.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:22 PM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:22 PM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I do see lots of dads at playgrounds here (in Quebec, Canada - paternity leave and shared parental leave are both federally and provincially encouraged here so that's probably a big factor) but the local online parent groups on facebook are explicitly for moms only. One even asked recently if members would be ok with dads joining since they had received some requests from dads and there was a disappointing mix of pushback and support. There are no local "parent" groups that I could find for an alternative. I find that really frustrating because it's excluding the dads (and nonbinary parents) from a useful resource and also contributes to the idea that only moms should be responsible for finding out all the info for things like healthcare, daycare, activities, etc. I don't know if dads here are looking to meet other local dads online anywhere, but if they are, it's not via the mom groups. They don't seem very chatty in person either. So overall that all sounds pretty normal even for somewhere that's very liberal overall (unfortunately).
posted by randomnity at 12:55 PM on July 20, 2022
posted by randomnity at 12:55 PM on July 20, 2022
Best answer: When I see reasons like:
I don’t like interacting as “a dad”
I don’t like other peoples’ kids very much
I have my own friends and prefer them to random other families who happen to be in my kid’s cohort
Talking about parenting is boring
I feel I’m pretty good at it and don’t need advice
Random strangers aren’t interesting to me
I don’t need neighbours’ hand-me-downs
I don’t want to schedule play dates with my child’s cohort and have to meet all these random people
MOMS FEEL THESE THINGS TOO OMG
WE DO IT ANYWAY
BECAUSE IT BENEFITS THE CHILDREN
TO BE IN A TIGHTLY KNIT COMMUNITY
SO WE PUT IN THE WORK TO ENMESH OUR CHILDREN WITH THEIR COHORT
IT IS WORK
WE AREN’T NATURALLY DRAWN TO DONNA FROM KARATE
WE DO IT OUT OF LOVE
FOR OUR CHILDREN
posted by nouvelle-personne at 1:18 PM on July 20, 2022 [97 favorites]
I don’t like interacting as “a dad”
I don’t like other peoples’ kids very much
I have my own friends and prefer them to random other families who happen to be in my kid’s cohort
Talking about parenting is boring
I feel I’m pretty good at it and don’t need advice
Random strangers aren’t interesting to me
I don’t need neighbours’ hand-me-downs
I don’t want to schedule play dates with my child’s cohort and have to meet all these random people
MOMS FEEL THESE THINGS TOO OMG
WE DO IT ANYWAY
BECAUSE IT BENEFITS THE CHILDREN
TO BE IN A TIGHTLY KNIT COMMUNITY
SO WE PUT IN THE WORK TO ENMESH OUR CHILDREN WITH THEIR COHORT
IT IS WORK
WE AREN’T NATURALLY DRAWN TO DONNA FROM KARATE
WE DO IT OUT OF LOVE
FOR OUR CHILDREN
posted by nouvelle-personne at 1:18 PM on July 20, 2022 [97 favorites]
The bad news: the patriarchy is real, man. Stay-at-home parents are overwhelmingly women, and if you're the primary caregiver of a very small (as in, not yet mobile) human, your circle of parents with similar-age kids is going to be almost entirely moms.
The good news: it doesn't actually matter. As long as you're not acting predatory/creepy, you will very quickly become just another new parent struggling to get through it. (A quick aside: if you have an infant, you are probably completely desensitized to breastfeeding. Not everyone is, and as the only male in the group, it is 100% on you not to make anyone in the group uncomfortable, even if that means offering to step outside) I'm still friends with a handful of women who have kids the age of my oldest, because we became a de-facto support group through a local new parents (by which I mean "new moms + me") group. Any members of the new-parent community who you DON'T stay friends with will also recognizer you instantly from across a grocery store, years later, after you have (awkwardly) forgotten their names, because being the only dad in the group makes you very memorable.
posted by Mayor West at 1:30 PM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
The good news: it doesn't actually matter. As long as you're not acting predatory/creepy, you will very quickly become just another new parent struggling to get through it. (A quick aside: if you have an infant, you are probably completely desensitized to breastfeeding. Not everyone is, and as the only male in the group, it is 100% on you not to make anyone in the group uncomfortable, even if that means offering to step outside) I'm still friends with a handful of women who have kids the age of my oldest, because we became a de-facto support group through a local new parents (by which I mean "new moms + me") group. Any members of the new-parent community who you DON'T stay friends with will also recognizer you instantly from across a grocery store, years later, after you have (awkwardly) forgotten their names, because being the only dad in the group makes you very memorable.
posted by Mayor West at 1:30 PM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
MOMS FEEL THESE THINGS TOO OMG
WE DO IT ANYWAY
Amen. I mean, I'm a dad, but my wife ends up doing more Stuff because everyone is habituated to just going through the mom. Try talking to me, I know some stuff, too!
posted by wenestvedt at 1:32 PM on July 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
WE DO IT ANYWAY
Amen. I mean, I'm a dad, but my wife ends up doing more Stuff because everyone is habituated to just going through the mom. Try talking to me, I know some stuff, too!
posted by wenestvedt at 1:32 PM on July 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Yeah, toddler dad in Chicago and I see the same thing here. The only time I really interact with/see other dads is dropping off and picking up the kid at preschool (where it's a 50/50 parent mix more or less). At the playground with the kid sometimes too. Rest of the time, like parties or taking the kid out shopping or on adventures or stuff like that it's a lot of moms. The parenting FB groups where I live are almost all moms and I'm one of the only dads on there.
It's annoying. It is what it is.
posted by allthethings at 1:35 PM on July 20, 2022
It's annoying. It is what it is.
posted by allthethings at 1:35 PM on July 20, 2022
Also in a very liberal city. I started seeing dads when my kid joined cub scouts, Little League, and soccer.
posted by pizzazz at 1:54 PM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by pizzazz at 1:54 PM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm dad to a 6-year old and 3-year old here in Portland. There is lots of public dad activity happening around our neighborhood, but as others have mentioned, the online parenting support groups and text chains are almost exclusively moms.
Oh and playdates. Scheduling playdates is a very necessary part of modern parenting and it's almost exclusively moms doing that work.
nouvelle-personne is sadly correct to point out that men and women face the same parenting struggles, but women just make it happen anyway.
Men over age ~25 are famously bad at forging supportive relationships with others in any context. I don't know that parenting is necessarily a special case.
posted by sportbucket at 2:06 PM on July 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Oh and playdates. Scheduling playdates is a very necessary part of modern parenting and it's almost exclusively moms doing that work.
nouvelle-personne is sadly correct to point out that men and women face the same parenting struggles, but women just make it happen anyway.
Men over age ~25 are famously bad at forging supportive relationships with others in any context. I don't know that parenting is necessarily a special case.
posted by sportbucket at 2:06 PM on July 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
The patriarchy is real, yes.
That said, I do tend to see more dads on the playground after dinner/early evenings. For whatever reason that seems to be the dad time slot once the kids are old enough to go to bed a bit later. I also have one dad friend I see all the time (single dad) and that seems to snowball into meeting more dads.
posted by haptic_avenger at 2:32 PM on July 20, 2022
That said, I do tend to see more dads on the playground after dinner/early evenings. For whatever reason that seems to be the dad time slot once the kids are old enough to go to bed a bit later. I also have one dad friend I see all the time (single dad) and that seems to snowball into meeting more dads.
posted by haptic_avenger at 2:32 PM on July 20, 2022
Interesting perspectives. I can't imagine either my wife or I participating in these groups, honestly, unless we move. I think, in every city, you're always going to find there are people who like regularly meeting new acquaintances, and people who either don't enjoy it or have too much going on already. So I would still recommend just getting to know whoever is available, and using them to find the people who fit you best--and if you just want to regularly hang out at the parks you're currently visiting with people from Facebook, you'll be doing that soon.
posted by michaelh at 2:52 PM on July 20, 2022
posted by michaelh at 2:52 PM on July 20, 2022
Seconding pizzazz. I made most of my dad friends when our kids played sports together. There tends to be lots of downtime at pickup and drop off for practices and before and after games. And ignoring each other eventually gets awkward when your all standing in a loose group with nothing to do but watch your kids bumble around and trip over themselves.
posted by lumpy at 6:00 PM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by lumpy at 6:00 PM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
So I'm in a very liberal urban suburb of an East Coast City (Boston). My experience at daycare pickup and dropoff is about 40% dads (actually per my husband, who does much more of the pickups and dropoffs than I do). Playgrounds during the weekend much 70% moms, 30% dads. Among our friends from daycare we're just as likely to see the dads as moms at birthday parties say. Facebook groups are a different story - my husband is an extremely involved dad who probably does closer to 60% of the childcare - and even he doesn't want to join FB groups. The FB groups I'm a part of are also mostly explicitly geared towards moms - and when prior attempts were made to change that the group consensus was towards a safe space for female-gendered parents to share even intimate things about what was going on in their lives (exceptions were made for same-sex couples - one parent was allowed to join). There are some mixed-gender groups for parents - but much much less popular.
posted by peacheater at 6:09 PM on July 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 6:09 PM on July 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm in Chicago, Hyde Park, and dads are everywhere. Most of the parents at the park with their kids are dads. Dads drop their kids off at camp and pick them up. I know it's not like this everywhere, but it's certainly happening here.
posted by goatdog at 6:16 PM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by goatdog at 6:16 PM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I see a lot of dads out and about with their kids where I live in the DC suburbs, both in middle class and working class neighborhoods plus at school events. I'd say it's definitely more weekends and evenings though. I think there's a class element to this, too: frankly, I see more working class immigrant dads taking their kids to the playground or sports practice than upper middle class but it all depends. Kids sports leagues around here definitely seem to attract a range of dads as well as moms, too, of course.
posted by smorgasbord at 8:23 PM on July 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by smorgasbord at 8:23 PM on July 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
I meant to add to my earlier comment that there’s a really wonderful Bluey episode about making new dad friends. It’s called Café.
posted by vunder at 10:32 PM on July 20, 2022
posted by vunder at 10:32 PM on July 20, 2022
not to get into a back and forth on a total derail about Mom Feelings here, but plenty of moms avoid parenting groups, or don't engage with other kids because they simply don't like them. just this morning I left the playground with my kid when (because) some other kids showed up.
posted by ewok_academy at 10:27 AM on July 22, 2022
posted by ewok_academy at 10:27 AM on July 22, 2022
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:08 AM on July 20, 2022 [16 favorites]