Is "your choice" a non-combative response to "what's your pronouns"?

July 18, 2022 4:56 PM

Without arguing about the pronoun issue directly, my personal belief is that the pronouns thing is regressive. Other people feel differently. If I don't want to get into it with someone, but, at the same time, don't want to participate in something I believe is toxic, would it be reasonable to respond to someone who is invested in the idea of introducing pronouns at a meeting with "whatever you feel comfortable with" as a response to the question "what's your pronouns"?
posted by Jon44 to Human Relations (25 answers total)

Best answer: Yes, you can absolutely say "any pronouns" or "whatever you're comfortable with" (I know people who do both of these things) but you also cannot really push back if someone uses neo pronouns for you (like zir) in that context.
posted by twelve cent archie at 5:00 PM on July 18, 2022 [32 favorites]

Yep, that's fine. I know lots of people who use some variation of that for various reasons when a pronoun-share is foisted upon them. The trick is that you have to mean it; if you say that, and then get some kind of visibly annoyed if someone uses a pronoun you're not used to, that's not a great look.
posted by curious nu at 5:01 PM on July 18, 2022 [20 favorites]

Echoing twelve cent archie--you better be ready to accept any and all pronouns without complaint.

I am a trans person who very specifically says "I usually use pronouns like..." because I'm making a statement about pronouns used to refer to me, not my identity. If your discomfort is in a similar vein, language like that may work for you.
posted by hoyland at 5:03 PM on July 18, 2022 [11 favorites]

Response by poster: "you also cannot really push back if someone uses neo pronouns for you (like zir) in that context."

Hey, I was serious about it being their choice. I really wouldn't care if they use "new" pronouns. (Still, my personal belief is that it's plain rude to use pronouns at all in the presence of the person you're referring to. I think it's courteous to use their name.)
posted by Jon44 at 5:03 PM on July 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Oh, and if some terribly earnest cis person responds with "but what are your pronouns", just say "really, I'm fine with anything, pick something".

In response to your update: if you're okay dealing with the inevitable hassle, "just use my name, please" is phrasing people use.
posted by hoyland at 5:07 PM on July 18, 2022 [14 favorites]

Sometimes using a name repeatedly is awkward. Think of something like a conversation with colleagues: "Did you hear Jon's presentation at that meeting! He killed it!" I don't think that can be interpreted as rude.

"Any pronouns are fine" is a phrasing I've heard and I just take my best guess from there, or change it up, depending.
posted by Threeve at 5:08 PM on July 18, 2022 [17 favorites]

Oh, yeah! If you'd prefer people use your name, you can also ask that. I've been in groups where that's been requested, and someone has not wanted any pronouns used for them. It's somewhat awkward in English but that's just habit; there are languages where that's much more common. You do you, friend. :) Any group worth being in will respect it.
posted by curious nu at 5:17 PM on July 18, 2022 [7 favorites]

I would strongly prefer someone to say they prefer the use of no pronouns if that's what they do prefer.

I was once in a group where someone said they had no preference on pronoun usage, and then another person in the group started to referring to them as "it". The first person seemed somewhat disturbed by some combination of the second person (almost definitely not acting in good faith), and the use of the pronoun "it". Later, I noticed the first person switched to preferring they/them pronouns, although I can't say the change was connected to my experience with them.
posted by saeculorum at 5:27 PM on July 18, 2022 [8 favorites]

I've been in a meeting where I could feel the mood in the room get tense (via people's body language) when someone said something along the lines, "whatever you feel comfortable with" - I imagine because it was perceived as dismissing the value of the question. In this instance, it was also clear that the person did find the whole premise of the pronoun go-around unnecessary, and they weren't hiding it in the tone of their voice. Even though "whatever works" is more or less my position, I felt tense simply because I could tell people around me were getting tense.

If you do want to say "whatever you feel comfortable with" I might preface it with something like "I honestly don't have a strong attachment to any one pronoun, so whatever you feel comfortable with works for me." That's clearly an expression of how you feel, rather a potential dismissal of the question, which for better of worse will make people perceive you as being actively contrarian (even if they agree with you).
posted by coffeecat at 5:34 PM on July 18, 2022 [32 favorites]

By asking about pronouns in a meeting your employer is setting the expectation that people will specify their pronouns - it's probably not a good idea to buck that unless you really, seriously don't have any bigger fish to fry.

Bear in mind too that people who ask are usually trying to be considerate and respectful. They do not share your belief that it is toxic. Your response should reflect that in spirit even if you don't agree with the letter of the request.

Yes, referring to someone directly in the third person is kinda weird but your colleagues do need to know how to refer to you when you're not around without having to use your first name over and over again. On a practical level "your choice" can get really confusing if everyone is choosing differently - which they will if you leave it up them.

Personally I think if someone takes the time and effort to ask you should just answer the question straight up and move on. It's cleaner and neater, gets you in-and-out of the question quickly without inviting a lot of attention and conversation to something you find disagreeable.
posted by space_cookie at 5:55 PM on July 18, 2022 [40 favorites]

If you actually would prefer pronouns for you be completely avoided you can absolutely just say "please just use my name."

But if that's more than you want to get into, yes, "any pronouns" is a completely acceptable answer if you mean it.
posted by Stacey at 7:58 PM on July 18, 2022 [2 favorites]

> Jon44: "(Still, my personal belief is that it's plain rude to use pronouns at all in the presence of the person you're referring to. I think it's courteous to use their name.)"

For what little it's worth, when I was in school, I had a teacher who claimed this as well and like a good little rule-follower, I tried to follow this rule. It got wildly cumbersome really quickly. Like, you end up with awkward things like "So I think we're all agreed that we should have Jon do the presentation since Jon's had the most experience in this setting and then afterwards Jon can brief us on the feedback. If Jon needs to, Jon can bring Jon's assistant to help." Perhaps in one-on-one conversations, you can substitute all relevant pronouns with you/your, but in a group discussion it is practically inevitable that some form of a 3rd person pronoun will get used otherwise you get weirdly stilted sentences like that. Also, people are going to be referring to you outside of your presence, so they're gonna want to know what the polite thing to say in those cases, even if you're not around.
posted by mhum at 8:05 PM on July 18, 2022 [30 favorites]

my personal belief is that it's plain rude to use pronouns at all

I want to touch on this because I think it will feed into how your request comes across to people.

I know someone who uses she/they pronouns. I’ll probably butcher the explanation but the idea is they are female presenting but don’t feel completely comfortable with that as a concept, so while “she” is a totally acceptable word to use they feel much more of an identity with “they”. But they’ve lived most of their life as “she” and haven’t reached any point they want that gone from their life.

So it’s two different pronouns, which is sort of Different if you aren’t in queer social circles, but it’s for reasons of gender expression which is how “what are your pronouns?” is all about. Usually people understand that.

But it seems you’re coming at it from nothing to do with gender and instead personally rules of grammar and politeness. Which is fine enough, but if someone is asking “what’s the deal with your gender, because English uses gendered pronouns?” and you say “instead can we talk about my beliefs on the English language and how we can show respect to each other” then there’s gonna sometimes be a disconnect because the two of you aren’t having the same conversation. I think this is why answering “I don’t care” comes across as confusing in some cases - some people may think you don’t care about a gender label, when in fact your preference is to just use names.

Best of luck as you navigate this. Language is already tricky even before you dig into politeness! I think you’ve got some good answers here and I hope as you have this conversation with people you have good opportunities to really refine the best way to convey what’s important about this to you.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:50 PM on July 18, 2022 [29 favorites]

One other thought- maybe your belief about no pronouns is related to gender! In which case I think it might help to explain that.

Maybe “I try to avoid gendered language in English, which is tricky given its history, so I generally use names instead of pronouns to try to show respect towards all people. Could you do that with me and use my name instead of anything gendered?” Or whatever explanation is appropriate.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:54 PM on July 18, 2022 [9 favorites]

(Still, my personal belief is that it's plain rude to use pronouns at all in the presence of the person you're referring to. I think it's courteous to use their name.)

Hrm? People don't share their pronouns with the sole intent that you use them in their presence. By knowing someone's pronouns, you can accurately form sentences about people you've met, like "Oh shoot, I think Meg left her wallet, does anyone know her number?" or "FYI, I invited Marco to that meeting too because they're my supervisor".
posted by dusty potato at 9:57 PM on July 18, 2022 [19 favorites]

Something else to keep in mind:

(and for those that notice, apologies in advance for *once again* bringing neurodiversity into the conversation, I'm kind of obsessed with it right now)

It seems to be a fairly common thing among people on the autistic spectrum to be very uncomfortable with using a person's first name. This is certainly the case for me. It feels like I'm claiming an intimate relationship when there isn't one.

I prefer to call people "they" for this reason.

I also hate it when people ask for pronouns, but in my case it's because I don't like being forced in a pronoun box as I'm still figuring out my gender identity. And that's private. But that's my own problem, so I'll definitely not say" whatever you choose " and would experience that answer as passive aggressive and a dishonest cloaking of " I'm not going to play along with this ridiculous pronoun game", unless phrased very carefully.
posted by Zumbador at 10:34 PM on July 18, 2022 [23 favorites]

I've also noticed, and I think it's through upbringing and regional styles, that I don't use people's names in their company. To the point that I can end up with an acquaintance I've seen several times without actually knowing what their name is. I could probably manage something without pronouns beyond 'you' in a direct conversation with multiple people, but it would get complicated.

Where I grew up you would never introduce yourself at the start of a conversation, so if someone does that it seems the name just doesn't stick in my head. At which point pronouns become important as an evasion tactic...
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 11:09 PM on July 18, 2022 [4 favorites]

Myself, I would say that I am comfortable with any pronouns, but also state that I may likely miss a beat/cue if non-traditional cis pronouns are used with me, just because they are new to me.

(I recently read a great sci-fi novella, recommended here on MeFi and was about a third of the way through and generally confused - until I realized that the main character was "they" and singular, then I enjoyed it immensely as well as the sequel)
posted by rozcakj at 7:33 AM on July 19, 2022

To me, the answer “your choice” would possibly read as a mildly combative answer, depending on tone. I’d say if you’re cis male, for example, have historically always been referred to by others by “he/him” and you have been perfectly comfortable with that and not felt in any way misgendered, then “your choice” feels at best disingenuous, unless you go into your reasoning.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 10:10 AM on July 19, 2022 [11 favorites]

I do think you run the risk of sounding combative, and that people are going to be able to tell you are against the practice of asking people to give their pronouns.
posted by BibiRose at 11:30 AM on July 19, 2022 [3 favorites]

I have been in various situations with people who said "any pronouns" or similar. Some of them seemed like they were being earnest, others seemed like they were trying to be combative or passive aggressive. Regardless of intent I personally always find it irksome — rather than being instructive or clarifying, it adds unnecessary mental overhead to my interactions with the person.
posted by ludwig_van at 1:28 PM on July 19, 2022 [3 favorites]

I think the most honest answer is, “I’d rather not say.”

It seems most in line with your position that you’d rather not get into it at all.
posted by cranberrymonger at 2:49 PM on July 19, 2022 [2 favorites]

“Any pronouns” is the less combative option to “you choose”.
I would not appreciate someone encouraging others to use “whatever pronouns your comfortable with” cos a lot of people are hella comfortable with misgendering folks and would likely use it as permission in contexts outside of you.
posted by Iteki at 5:09 PM on July 19, 2022 [6 favorites]

I feel the same way you do about the whole thing, but I work in an environment where this question comes up a lot. I always just smile genuinely, say "any pronoun is fine" and mean it.

I truly don't care what real or made-up word people use to talk about me, either in my presence or without me there. I have an internal locus of identity, and my self-definition is wholly unconnected to this discussion. If one of the goals of this exercise is that we bring our authentic selves to the world ... this is my authentic self. I. Don't. Care. What pronouns you use to talk about me. Other people feel a different way, and I respect their positions and will use whatever pronouns they want me to use for them.

The trick is to smile and be friendly. If you say it dismissively or like a smart-ass, people will think you're being an jerk about it and will dig in. If you keep a light tone and answer conversationally, most non-jerk people will accept your answer in good faith and move on.
posted by mccxxiii at 7:00 AM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]

I don't really understand the quandary. Pronouns are supposed to be a personal thing, aren't they? If you think it's "regressive" or otherwise aren't interested, can't you still give the correct answer to the question asked at you? "He" or "she", whichever you would usually prefer to be referred as? I mean, that's the point of the question isn't it?
posted by tillsbury at 5:08 PM on July 22, 2022 [3 favorites]