What questions are you considering regarding the neverending plague?
July 18, 2022 4:32 PM   Subscribe

As we seem to move into a stage of the pandemic where COVID is just with us forever, what choices are you thinking about as we navigate what appears to in fact finally be that "new normal."

Emily Oster wrote in her newsletter today that given the lack of continuing covid tracking data in the U.S. and a reluctance of officials to re-impose closures and mandates, that it might be time to start considering long term risk questions.

So far I have things like:
Will we generally wear masks at indoor events?
Will we rapid test before gatherings or only if we are symptomatic?
Will we mask up on flights?
Will we have parties in our home?

I'd like to know what questions (not answers to those questions) other people are thinking about. Bonus points for people who have been very very cautious throughout the pandemic or have navigated the pandemic with a child under 3.
posted by donut_princess to Health & Fitness (39 answers total) 14 users marked this as a favorite
I do not have children. I have been very (absurdly in some people's opinions) cautious. Some uncomfortable questions I have been asking myself a lot lately:

Will I be able to find a job that utilizes my talents and also doesn't expose me to maskless hordes of people?

Now that virtually no one in my area seems to want to wear a mask anymore, will I get sick even though I will continue masking?

If I get sick, will I get other people sick? Will I or other people suffer long term? Will someone I love die?

And maybe most of all: will I always be stunned at the disregard people can show for the most vulnerable? Will that always bother me or will I become inured to it?
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 4:47 PM on July 18, 2022 [13 favorites]

Best answer: How long to avoid a person who had known COVID?

How long to avoid a person who had possible COVID but a negative test?

Will we take the kiddo on nonessential outings before they can wear an N95 mask?

Some outings I do in the mornings (like grocery trips) when the aerosols of the day haven’t accumulated yet. Which outings fall into that category?

Are there any circumstances where we would want kiddo to mask in school?

Which lessons / activities are ok for kiddo and which feel less safe?
posted by nouvelle-personne at 4:48 PM on July 18, 2022 [3 favorites]

I'm a teacher and put in a ton of effort not catching COVID at school, or from my friends or strangers. But it seems like nobody else cares about that now.

Question: am I going to drop my standards, from "Don't catch or pass on COVID" ?
I could see dropping to "Don't catch it too often" though I think "Don't pass it on" is still a noble thing to strive for.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 4:49 PM on July 18, 2022 [3 favorites]

Will I ever feel comfortable inviting friends into my home without asking them to take a rapid test first?
Will I ever feel carefree again when I travel?
Will I ever be able to eat inside a restaurant again?
posted by MelissaSimon at 4:53 PM on July 18, 2022 [10 favorites]

Best answer: I've been thinking about whether and under what conditions to take my 3 year old to indoor gathering places like the play space at the mall.

Also a lot about participating in performing arts, masking or not during rehearsals and how much I trust other performers.

What indoor afterschool activities (and in what communities) do we think are worth the risk, given that masking is likely to be nil?
posted by DebetEsse at 4:55 PM on July 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Am I ever going to feel safe square dancing regularly again? I'm being asked to call square dances (including "help, I just tested positive and the club dances in 3 hours and there isn't time to contact everyone and tell them it's canceled"), and though all of those events that I've acceded to are vaccine card checked, masks optional, it's difficult for me to call in a mask (muddled voice on the mic) I still have mixed feelings every time I say "yes".

How do I interact with people in my broader social circles who remain COVID deniers, and refuse to test or self-isolate when they're sick? Attempt to engage? Simply shun them? Where is that line drawn for, say, blood family, versus friends of friends?

How do I deal with transitive risk? I have an elderly friend who's very cautious (and, of course, multiply boosted, as am I), but when I go visit and we spend time hanging out and singing (we're both square dance callers), is several days of being symptom free and careful about contact enough? Do I need to test first?

When I'm involved in the leadership of events, where do we draw lines with checking vaccine cards or requesting masks, indoors vs outdoors, at various different activity levels? Do I trust people to tell me they've been vaccinated, or check cards? When gathering with a few friends at someone's house? When coordinating a 50 person outdoor presentation? Indoors in a fairly ventilated space? Where's that line?
posted by straw at 5:11 PM on July 18, 2022 [2 favorites]

Best answer: We are cautious to the point of having sealed N95s on hand to ask other people to wear. A question is how long tradespeople will be willing to do so when entering our home, and what we’ll do about it when that happens and we need an urgent home repair.

Another question is what happens when doctors stop offering telemedicine appointments and we have to go in? They’re already inconsistently masking.

How will we judge when it’s safe to get dental work done without the testing data?

Will we still be able to buy rapid tests off the shelf or will demand drop so much that they become scarce again?

What do we need to do to continue having nice spaces to see people out of doors?
posted by Bottlecap at 5:12 PM on July 18, 2022 [9 favorites]

Response by poster: Thank you! These are really helpful! Keep them coming!
posted by donut_princess at 5:37 PM on July 18, 2022

I have a one year old who hasn't been in daycare yet and we've been very very cautious for the entire pandemic. Daycare this fall (and returning to work in person at the same time) will probably change the calculations because we won't be able to avoid it there.

Some things I'll be asking myself around then:

*when to start doing indoor activities (like going to the library or museums)

*when to start bringing her on errands like grocery shopping (and even when to start shopping in person again, since we're still only doing curbside orders).

*when to start doing indoor visits with family and friends instead of only outdoors, and with or without masks

*once my kid is old enough to mask, where she'll wear one (and where we adults will)

*when to rapid test (her and us) after she starts getting all the daycare sniffles. We've been lucky enough to never get symptoms so far so we haven't needed to yet.

*when, if ever, to ask others for rapid tests before gatherings

*how much isolation is needed after the inevitable covid exposures from daycare

*when we'd consider doing large outdoor events again, and whether we'd mask

*should we invest in a gazebo or nicer patio furniture or outdoor toys etc for more outdoor visits next summer?

*how hard to insist we all stay outside when the weather is bad and everyone is uncomfortable (which is most of the year, in this part of Canada).

*when will I play my beloved indoor sport again? and will I mask?

*when will we eat in an indoor restaurant again, or go out for drinks? when will we bring our kid for the first time?

There will be many more I'm sure but that's a start.
posted by randomnity at 5:47 PM on July 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

These are the questions I asked an epidemiologist:

- Can you tell me what information source to check to know when the pandemic has actually become an endemic?
- Is it possible to make an educated guess now about what will normal responsible practices look like at that time?

I then listed off what normal responsible practices I'm currently using, for context.
posted by aniola at 6:02 PM on July 18, 2022 [3 favorites]

As a seriously immunocompromised person, my big question right now is, "Will I still be able to socialize outdoors if everyone has masks on in the future?" That, and "Will my colleagues/acquaintances/partner's friends ever be willing to wear a mask to meet me outside again?"
posted by twelve cent archie at 6:16 PM on July 18, 2022 [8 favorites]

I'm severely immunocompromised and have been very careful throughout the pandemic.

So my main questions are about how I balance keeping myself safe with having a life that is worth living. Why am I keeping myself alive if I am never going to see family or friends?

Considering that, which of these things are worth the risk? Seeing family, fencing when everyone else feels safe moving indoors again (currently fencing outdoors with masks), traveling to places I've always wanted to see before I die (I have a cancer that's considered incurable), working with a trainer or physical therapist to improve strength and flexibility, eating out with friends, resuming my beloved annual St. Patrick Day's party, going to museums, attending Mass.

(I just watched the movie Molokai: The Story of Father Damien. Father [now Saint] Damien lived and worked among those with Hansen's disease (aka leprosy) on the island of Molokai until he himself died of the disease. Very interesting and thought-provoking movie to watch when you're thinking about life and risk during a pandemic.)
posted by FencingGal at 6:24 PM on July 18, 2022 [9 favorites]

Also, how do I deal with those I used to feel close to who haven't been willing to work to keep me safe? Can I ever forgive the people who really let me down?
posted by FencingGal at 6:26 PM on July 18, 2022 [30 favorites]

There are also important questions to ask regarding what you will do when you get it. Prompt identification and treatment is important for reducing the risk of severe illness, and doctors aren't always up on the latest research. I've seen some who took a "wait and see" approach to symptom severity even though that's explicitly not how paxlovid works (it slows it down, it doesn't reverse it).

Or the doc's recommendations may vary based on what you present as your biggest concern, so it's good to know what's out there. (e.g. our doc's recommendation changed from "no paxlovid" to "your prescription can be picked up in 15 minutes" based on a wrong assumption about what would be more inconvenient/troublesome for us. We were ok isolating longer than two weeks in the event of rebound, but cared a lot about minimizing severity and immediate transmission risk. Some people, if they had to keep their kid out of child care or stay home for an extra week it would have been a real burden.)

Relatedly, because prompt identification is so key for effective treatment, it's important to make a plan for contacting folks if you do test positive, so they can know to be on the lookout. Maybe not for every person you see but at least for the elderly or at risk who you may be seeing with precautions.
posted by Lady Li at 6:40 PM on July 18, 2022

Will I ever eat inside a restaurant again?
Will I ever go to a movie or indoor performance again?
Will I ever participate in my indoor sport again?
Will we go on a cruise? If so, will we regret it? What's the risk-to-reward ratio?
Will I ever go to indoor political meetings again?
Will I try improv or technical theater?
Is anyone I am close to going to get very sick or die from covid?

My wife and I have been covid cautious since March 2020. (See my recent cruise question.)
posted by NotLost at 7:19 PM on July 18, 2022 [5 favorites]

Also, will my wife really have to go back to the office? How will that affect her health, etc.
posted by NotLost at 7:20 PM on July 18, 2022

I have been very cautious, still wear a kn94 mask anywhere indoors (including working all day), turn down social gatherings with too many people indoors, etc.

1. When will I be confident that I will not be fired at will for a contract gig due to Covid exposure I can not control?

Recently, a coworker was exposed to a Covid+ person working at a meeting for a company I sometimes work for. They were fired from any jobs they were working for the client the next week, even if testing negative. This could have great impact to my income — even a 50% reduction. These rules applied arbitrarily by companies can be infuriating when I’m the only person masking or taking any safety measures but am penalized for others’ refusal to care. It’s not as if anyone is required to test before work (and the one time it was required, two of my clients tested positive after our meeting while the rest of us who masked and ate outside did not).

2. What can I do in my business to reduce the potential to lose work when someone in my vicinity tests positive?

I’m considering not working back to back for the same client, not working for a particular client, or trying to alternate in-person and virtual work (not likely). At the best of times pre-Covid my schedule was up to chance. The worst impact of catching Covid is potentially medical (myself/others). But what people with full time jobs don’t get about self employed (and, I assume hourly) workers is that there is a big financial impact of lost income. If I lose income every time I am in the vicinity of Covid my income will be $0 because nobody else will take any steps to stop transmission and my job is gathering groups of people from across the world together in person. I recently took a week off before and after a big job to pad myself in case of exposure.

3. What will my corporate clients’ policies be for testing, in-person gatherings, and proof of Covid status/exposure level be in 3 months? In a year?

4. When will my friends give up and stop inviting me to things when I always say no (due to lack of Covid protection — e.g. indoor dining)?

5. Should I buy disability insurance in case I get long Covid and can’t work?
posted by Bunglegirl at 7:21 PM on July 18, 2022 [3 favorites]

I have a family member who is possibly severely ill. Waiting on test results. So "at what point do I ignore safety and get on a train to go support that family member through the immediate scary health stuff and how can I attempt to make it less risky for all involved when we do get there" is the main new question.

The one frivolous indoor self care thing I do just went mask optional so "am I going to keep doing that?" was another recent question.

The very newest one is "will I accept a promotion to a new role that would ask me to be in the office once a week, knowing my current boss would go to bat for me to stay 100% remote for medical reasons, but could of course quit anytime and leave me without that champion?"
posted by Stacey at 7:48 PM on July 18, 2022

I sometimes wonder if I should stay in my industry (fitness/childcare related).

On the one hand, the last two years has fully convinced me of the value of both sides of the business. On the other hand, our streak of care + luck ran out over the last week or so and a number of people have come down with Covid. It's my job to stay strategic, but it's hard to be positive when I'm worrying about so many people at once...and knowing it's likely to hit me soon.

I don't know how to keep doing the kind of work I've found meaningful if it's wave after wave. Kinda dark but there it is tonight.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:20 PM on July 18, 2022 [2 favorites]

Can we go to the UK and Ireland this summer and have it be safe?

Can we go to indoor theater events?

When will it be OK for actors who are worried about covid to be on stage with others but without masks.

How safe is it to hang out indoors maskless with people who are themselves vaccinated and non-symptomatic, but who may have been exposed to covid a few days ago (and it's too early for them to be tested meaningfully?
posted by jasper411 at 9:20 PM on July 18, 2022

How do I find community now?
posted by aniola at 10:15 PM on July 18, 2022 [11 favorites]

I’m sending so much love to everyone posting their questions. I have been extremely isolated for 2.5 years to avoid Covid and because of this I have tried to not peer too far into the future. It feels so sad. But when I inevitably do, my questions are:

Will I ever get to see my family easily and regularly again?

Will my partner continue to share the same boundaries around Covid? What happens if they change?

Will it ever be safe enough to go to a live concert or performance? Eat indoors? Travel via plane?

How long will my friendships survive if I keep my current boundaries? Will they stick with me?

How can I build a good life and future with the boundaries I have in place now?
posted by fleecy socks at 10:34 PM on July 18, 2022 [8 favorites]

How will I make new friends? How will I keep old friends?

Will I have to get a new job if my current one wants me to go back in?

Am I wrong about all this? Are my Covid precautions actually making my life more precarious, not less?
posted by HotToddy at 10:38 PM on July 18, 2022 [4 favorites]

How do I completely get away from the mindset that Covid is some kind of marker of morality, i.e. how do I avoid blaming people who catch it, or labelling those who avoid it as virtuous? (Clue: the ability to avoid Covid is a form of privilege)

How do I adjust my behaviour now that new variants are causing less, and less severe, disease (and seemingly with less risk of long Covid), and now that some people are still very cautious but the imperative of returning to "normal" is ever more pressing?
posted by altolinguistic at 11:54 PM on July 18, 2022 [10 favorites]

At work, will I keep wearing a mask even when others are free-facing or will I become a social conformist and only wear a mask when others are. Can I hold out?

Socially, will I continue to refuse engagements until no one invites me anymore? (probably).

Soulfully, will I ever hug friends, old and new, with heart-held gusto again?

Domestically, will I fall-out forever with family who believe they have a public rights rather than public responsibilities?
posted by Thella at 12:19 AM on July 19, 2022 [1 favorite]

These are most of the things I am mulling over. Line breaks added for readability.

Which people should I trust for reliable, evidence based advice about current and emerging risks? (Um, probably not Oster though she is an indicator of what will probably happen).

How can i best treat and recover from any future infections?

When should I use an elastomeric respirator vs n95?

How do I maintain my use of masks when others don't wear them and in low infection-rate moments?? (This was probably where I slipped up)

What can I do to encourage best practice norms (masking, regular testing, affordable and available testing, ventilation) in my broader community / immediate network?

At what points is keeping my kid in childcare too risky for her and my partner and I?

How could we switch our working / parenting style to vest accommodate diy preschooling and its not just mum doing it all as she was a newborn in March 2020 so lockdown kinda passed me by?

How can I get said 2 year old to wear a mask over her nose and mouth FOR MORE THAN 2 MINUTES?

How do I get my kid vaccinated ASAP? (EU / Australian availability lags behind the US)

How can I improve my first aid / home medical skills so in the event of a household accident I can usefully respond rather than overloading hospital services / potentially waiting hours for care?

What upgrades / home improvements / supply chain dependent activities are upcoming? Can I start that process before my eg. washing machine breaks so I can get things in advance vs last minute?

How do I consider other risks eg. Increased flood, drought, fire and incorporate the likely insufficient government response to that in my decision-making?

What kind of work can I do that is useful in a COVID world as I age and become less physically able / develop long COVID and in which others will need increased support and which can also be done outside / online? I have started studying counselling/ psychotherapy for this very reason.

What activities and joy finding do I look forward to under these conditions? How can I make that most possible?

How can I be okay with most other people not thinking this way?
posted by pipstar at 1:06 AM on July 19, 2022 [2 favorites]

Also, how will ongoing COVID continue to change the systems around me? What implications does that have 5 or 10 years forward?
posted by pipstar at 1:11 AM on July 19, 2022

Covid tore through relationships in so many surprising ways. We no longer speak to my husband's family b/c they are salty that we chose to isolate in the very early days of the pandemic when we still had Trump and not visit a dying family member in a hospital that wouldn't have even let us in at that time of the pandemic.

-- So much distance between friends. Some of it feels kind of ok. Do I want or need those friends back in my life in the way they were before the pandemic? Do they feel the same? What do those relationships look like in the future? What if they want to go back to before and I don't?

-- I have the privilege of working remotely and had coincidentially already started doing so right before the pandemic hit, but I work for a school system and most of my colleagues are teachers who have to be there. How do I navigate what I know and feel is *insert feeling* from colleagues who say passive aggressive things about me being home?

-- I'm pretty sure my neighbor, who has been a dear friend for the 20 years I've lived here, knowingly exposed me to covid (pre-vaccines) becasue she needed me to come over and help her with something and then lied to me. Two days after I helped her she texted me that she had to take a test for work and was positive, and her story just didn't make sense. How do I ever again trust people who I'm sure have lied to me during the pandemic and put me at risk?

-- Friends say they are being safe but then post pix of their adventures on social media. How do I navigate relationships when we have very different ideas about what safety is? Am I being too safe now? Have these people always been this way and I just never saw it?
posted by archimago at 5:54 AM on July 19, 2022 [6 favorites]

I'm not immunodeficient, but I'm scared of catching COVID because I'm scared of Long COVID (at least partially because I live alone and need to continue to be able to do that). Which means I'm scared to get on a train (nobody masks here any more, and even when it was a legal obligation, it wasn't enforced), which means I have no in-person social contact and no access to museums, galleries, big bookshops, the office, etc. I get everything delivered and pretty much only leave the house to walk in the countryside. My questions are mostly just a howl of despair over whether I'm ever going to get to see my family or my friends or leave my tiny town or do any of the out-of-house things I used to enjoy (and take for granted) ever again.

Questions I could actually do with coming up with answers to include:

- How reliable are the prevalence statistics, given that tests are no longer freely available to most people, and that the results of non-free LFTs can't be reported?

- How can I get an eye test (desperately needed) when even the best mask steams up my glasses a little?

- What will I do if I need to see the dentist?

- What will I do if work decides I have to come into the office, even if it's just once? How will I find a 100% remote job if I lose my current job?

- How will I handle it when I need someone to come and fix something in my house?

- What are the different forms of Long COVID, and what's their distribution? Is the worst-case scenario that I'm constraining my life to avoid a one-in-ten risk for someone matching my description, or one-in-a-hundred, or one-in-ten-thousand? Would the non-worst-case scenarios be better or worse than how I'm living now?

- What's my exit strategy, and what criteria do I use to help me decide when it's time to deploy it?

- Is there any political party taking this stuff seriously? Who should I vote for if I want the government to work on introducing clean indoor air standards, making sick pay something people can survive on, making it obligatory for employers to let workers call in sick without penalty, that sort of thing?
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 6:15 AM on July 19, 2022 [1 favorite]

Because I'm currently dealing with this right now:

If someone in my household gets COVID, will I try to isolate from them? If so, will they cooperate? What would in-home isolation look like? Is there anything I can do now to prep my home for isolation protocols?
posted by misskaz at 6:23 AM on July 19, 2022

When someone says they are being careful, do they mean that they're actually being careful like I am? Because I keep seeing viral Twitter threads about people catching covid after they were "incredibly careful" and then their description of care is going to indoor birthday parties unmasked, or flying on airplanes for vacation, or going to an indoor restaurant "just one time." I can count on one hand the number of times that I've been indoors with other people who haven't quarantined to see me since 2020. I'll probably never eat indoors at a restaurant again.

When my partner has to go back in to the office, will we break up?
She's unwilling to see me for two weeks after she's been indoors with other people, because I'm so seriously immunocompromised, and I'm starting to feel like our relationship has a shelf life because of my disability.
posted by twelve cent archie at 8:23 AM on July 19, 2022 [4 favorites]

I just wear a mask most places, which in my area is doing a whole lot. I don't know my risk because it seems COVID affects everyone differently, but I'm not officially immunocompromised and I'm not THAT old, so... can't control the air, unfortunately.

What I want to know is whether there IS a protocol being developed for the immunocompromised, because "living like an anchorite" isn't going to cut it. That and it would relieve a ton of health anxiety for those who are at a normal level of risk but are understandably cautious.
posted by kingdead at 11:00 AM on July 19, 2022 [1 favorite]

I'm presuming I'll continue to wear masks for indoor public events and crowded outdoor spaces (like farmers markets). But...

What level of caution is appropriate for going to indoor events? Two events I went to recently asked for vaccine cards, but couldn't require masks. Can I ask for more ventilation (open door/window)? Should I make sure to sit near an open door/window? Should I move if an unmasked person sits down next to me?

Should I go back to hugging friends? Shaking hands with new acquaintances? What if I test before meeting up with people?

What do I do when my other priorities and preferred activities (e.g. taking public transit, using the public library) are exposure risks?
posted by spamandkimchi at 11:02 AM on July 19, 2022 [1 favorite]

Can I afford to leave a relationship, knowing that a limited family sphere is pretty safe and dating around really wouldn't be?
posted by nebulawindphone at 11:37 AM on July 19, 2022 [1 favorite]

I am bedridden with myalgic encephalomyelitis, which is most commonly a postviral illness. I cannot afford to get long covid on top of what I have and it seems, at least anecdotally, to be a particular risk for us. My immune system is probably not great though I'm not *technically* immunocompromised.

- Will I ever meet with humans again not wearing my PAPR?
- Will I ever feel I can have my spouse run errands in just a mask and not his PAPR?
- Is my spouse's double masking while teaching and ventilating the heck out of the room always going to be enough to protect us?
- Now that it's no longer required by the college, will my spouse's students agree to wear masks in class going forward in order to help protect me?
- Will the administration cause problems for him for taking extra precautions?
- Will I continue to spend any semester he's working on campus not being in any physical contact with him, like we did last year (with thankfully a spring sabbatical to shorten that time)?
- Everything that's broken in an acute way so far my spouse has been able to DIY, but we ever be able to have needed work on our house done, knowing that the general leaning of the population who provides those services in our area is covid-skeptical?
- When will granting agencies give up on long covid as "too hard/expensive to solve" and relegate it to the fifth-class status that people with ME have been trying to fight our way out of for decades?
- If we keep having to have boosters, will one of them worsen my illness further, given that the first vaccine did so in a way that still hasn't improved a year later?
- Given that the handful of ME specialists in the U.S. are now all splitting their time between ME and long covid, will more doctors enter that field, or will it drive people away as too difficult and will access for people with ME get even worse?

*Will I ever get to stop feeling, every day, like I am living in a tailor-made peril, having been a child with a parent treated for Hodgkin's Disease for four years of her young life, and who then grew up to get a devastating chronic illness?*
posted by jocelmeow at 12:58 PM on July 19, 2022 [2 favorites]

When will the COVID testing site where I work shut down?
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:02 PM on July 19, 2022

How do I get over the habit of avoiding people that I developed during Covid lock down?

Why does it feel so unpleasant being around people now?

Do I even want to stop avoiding people?

How do I manage the anxiety and hostility I've started feeling towards other people?

How the heck do I handle being around all the now un-socialized dogs which are reacting to me and other strangers with fear and threat after two years of being made to social distance?

How do I get adequate medical care when so many medical professionals are now longer available, or if they are available, are unwilling to have close contact with their patients?

How much of the Covid precautions that people are taking is really just infection theatre (like airport security theatre)? How are people actually catching Covid now?

What percentage of people are probably asymptomatic spreaders with active cases?
posted by Jane the Brown at 8:57 PM on July 19, 2022 [3 favorites]

Will I ever be interested in other people again?
posted by bendy at 10:04 PM on July 19, 2022 [1 favorite]

I've been very careful throughout this continuing pandemic—masking in indoor public spaces, not eating in restaurants, meeting friends in outdoor settings, double or triple masking in particularly high risk situations—and am fully vaccinated. Our community risk recently went back to high, but most people don't wear masks.

When can I hug my dear friends again?

Will I ever be able to comfortably (either masked or unmasked) attend concerts, other live performances, movies, etc.?

Will I ever feel safe traveling via airplane or train?

Will most people continue to ignore the risks (to themselves and others) by not wearing masks due to covid/pandemic fatigue?

So many questions. These are the first that come to mind.
posted by Scout405 at 9:16 PM on July 22, 2022 [1 favorite]

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