Advice on possibly getting a used manual transmission car to learn on?
July 9, 2022 3:59 PM Subscribe
So I cannot drive a stick-shift, but I think I want to learn. I like to learn at my own pace and my own way. I'm thinking about buying a cheap used car ($3k-5k) to learn on, with the understanding that the process of learning will probably damage the car somewhat, and accepting this. Good idea? Bad idea?
Response by poster: Well, I also need a car for a daily driver and it seems like manual transmission ones tend to get better fuel economy?
posted by The otter lady at 4:10 PM on July 9, 2022
posted by The otter lady at 4:10 PM on July 9, 2022
It’s not that hard. I only have EVs now, but man did I love my manuals…
Except in bumper to bumper traffic on I5
posted by Windopaene at 4:12 PM on July 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
Except in bumper to bumper traffic on I5
posted by Windopaene at 4:12 PM on July 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
Dunno about where you live but where I live you can take driving lessons at schools specifically meant for manual cars. The most famous is probably Shifters.
posted by dobbs at 4:18 PM on July 9, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by dobbs at 4:18 PM on July 9, 2022 [8 favorites]
When I was living in the UK we had a seasonal mobility program at work. The guys coming over from the US were sent to pick up their rental cars in Cambridge because East Anglia is no place for the carless, at least not if you have to travel lol over the region daily. They were of course given manuals. They were a bit pale when they got back to the office, between the right hand steering, the narrow streets and suicidal cyclists I am not sure the manual transmission was the worst part of getting back to the office. But they were fine within a few days. It’s just practice.
posted by koahiatamadl at 4:22 PM on July 9, 2022
posted by koahiatamadl at 4:22 PM on July 9, 2022
It's been 42 years, but as I recall the hardest part of learning to drive a stick shift is learning how to do that initial take off from stop. So if you can get to a flat, open area where you can practice that for a few hours without having to worry about stalling out and interrupting traffic, you should be fine.
The rest of it - learning when to shift (you'll feel it in the gas pedal), learning the pattern of the gears, etc., will just come with time and practice.
Right now I have a 2017 Honda Fit EX-L with a six speed manual, and I'm lamenting the fact that this will probably be the last manual transmission car I own. All the manuals now either come in the lowest of the low end or in the high end "drivers" models.
posted by ralan at 4:23 PM on July 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
The rest of it - learning when to shift (you'll feel it in the gas pedal), learning the pattern of the gears, etc., will just come with time and practice.
Right now I have a 2017 Honda Fit EX-L with a six speed manual, and I'm lamenting the fact that this will probably be the last manual transmission car I own. All the manuals now either come in the lowest of the low end or in the high end "drivers" models.
posted by ralan at 4:23 PM on July 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
I think that seems like a reasonable idea. If you already have another car and money is tight, it might not make sense to spend several thousand on a second car, plus insurance and registration, when there are probably cheaper ways to learn to drive stick. But if you can save money on gas by using the stick shift car as your daily driver that will help make up for it. And after you're done learning, maybe you'll want to sell one of the cars, recouping some of the cost. Or maybe you'll sell both and buy a newer stick shift.
My husband and I each learned to drive a stick shift by buying one, getting an introductory lesson from someone else and then just driving it. Neither of us did any significant damage to our cars as far as we could tell, even though we started out basically having no idea what we were doing. And manual transmission cars are so much easier to shift nowadays. I bet you'll pick it up with no problem and probably without destroying your clutch.
posted by Redstart at 4:27 PM on July 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
My husband and I each learned to drive a stick shift by buying one, getting an introductory lesson from someone else and then just driving it. Neither of us did any significant damage to our cars as far as we could tell, even though we started out basically having no idea what we were doing. And manual transmission cars are so much easier to shift nowadays. I bet you'll pick it up with no problem and probably without destroying your clutch.
posted by Redstart at 4:27 PM on July 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
$5k is an awful lot for a car you plan to abuse. I sold my last manual five years ago (granted it was 20 years old) for $350. Look on FB Marketplace for an old Civic before you commit - it's not hard to learn how to do, but it's also just kind of annoying and I sometimes wished I had my right hand free. It's like playing piano or speaking German: I'm glad I can say I know how, but I also don't need to do it every day, you know?
My understanding is that the gas mileage benefits aren't that significant over modern automatics, but I might be wrong.
You will be the designated driver every time you go out, because nobody will be able to drive your car.
posted by kevinbelt at 4:34 PM on July 9, 2022 [7 favorites]
My understanding is that the gas mileage benefits aren't that significant over modern automatics, but I might be wrong.
You will be the designated driver every time you go out, because nobody will be able to drive your car.
posted by kevinbelt at 4:34 PM on July 9, 2022 [7 favorites]
There are driving schools that specifically teach stick shift driving for a few hundred dollars. MUCH cheaper than abusing a car and "figure it out" on your own. One operates in California, Texas, and Florida.
posted by kschang at 4:49 PM on July 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by kschang at 4:49 PM on July 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
Unfortunately, it's a rough time to be buying any relatively inexpensive used car at the moment, so that might be a challenge. The most likely way you might damage a car in the the learning process is cooking the clutch by slipping it too much for too long. (An overheated clutch gives off a distinctive odor.)
I'm guessing that the reason you want to learn at your own pace and your own way (and noting that you have "lady" in your handle) is that you don't want some dude mansplaining / yelling at you for screwing up the car/ telling you that you're doing it wrong? That makes a lot of sense, and it's also a point of pride to learn a new skill 100% by yourself, but it's also possible that you'll develop some bad habits without any feedback whatsoever. The worst was a dude I knew who would hold a car on a slope ( like stopped at traffic light on an uphill grade) by continuously slipping the clutch- absolute murder on the car. From his perspective it "worked" so why not? If you don't want to deal with people's critiques, you can probably make up for it by reading and viewing tutorials. Or get to the point where you're passable and then solicit feedback from experienced drivers to get the final polish in your technique and nip any bad habits in the bud.
In the right car, a manual is really a lot of fun to drive, keeps you more engaged/involved with driving, and it's a cool skill to have- so go for it! You'll do fine.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 4:51 PM on July 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm guessing that the reason you want to learn at your own pace and your own way (and noting that you have "lady" in your handle) is that you don't want some dude mansplaining / yelling at you for screwing up the car/ telling you that you're doing it wrong? That makes a lot of sense, and it's also a point of pride to learn a new skill 100% by yourself, but it's also possible that you'll develop some bad habits without any feedback whatsoever. The worst was a dude I knew who would hold a car on a slope ( like stopped at traffic light on an uphill grade) by continuously slipping the clutch- absolute murder on the car. From his perspective it "worked" so why not? If you don't want to deal with people's critiques, you can probably make up for it by reading and viewing tutorials. Or get to the point where you're passable and then solicit feedback from experienced drivers to get the final polish in your technique and nip any bad habits in the bud.
In the right car, a manual is really a lot of fun to drive, keeps you more engaged/involved with driving, and it's a cool skill to have- so go for it! You'll do fine.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 4:51 PM on July 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
Get an hour or 2 of training, then it's just practice. Ask the trainer to be as low-key as possible.
posted by theora55 at 4:53 PM on July 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 4:53 PM on July 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think you’ll surprise yourself with how quickly you pick it up, and I’d be astonished if you did any meaningful damage to the car in the short time you’ll spend getting used to it. It’s not like learning to drive all over again; you know how to drive, you’re just adding one new aspect to it, and you’ll be able to devote a lot more attention to that one thing.
posted by breakfast burrito at 4:54 PM on July 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by breakfast burrito at 4:54 PM on July 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
I bought a very expensive used car that I couldn’t drive. It took a couple months to be absolutely seamless, but it only took a few weeks to be pretty good. The seller of the car dropped it off in the driveway and I read the manual, watched some videos and stalled at the stop signs in my neighborhood rather a lot. The most important thing in terms of not harming the car is not grinding the gears, which is achieved by making sure the pedal is fully depressed and released. My mechanic has no concerns about whether I did any sort of damage and it’s got well over 100k miles on it with no mechanical issues. You’re right about the gas mileage being better. Your plan is fine, just make sure you have some time to dedicate to practice before you need to be places on time. You’ll probably stall out rather a lot at first, if you are anything like me.
posted by Bottlecap at 4:55 PM on July 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Bottlecap at 4:55 PM on July 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
My brothers and I learned to drive stick at 16, and none of us did any damage to the car. That probably applies to all my cousins too, manual transmissions were pretty common in the early 80s. I really wouldn't worry about it.
Worst thing that happens is you stall out. That's only an issue from a stop, you can't stall once you get going. You'll grind the gears a few times, but it doesn't take long to get the timing right. None of that will really hurt the car.
posted by InfidelZombie at 5:07 PM on July 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
Worst thing that happens is you stall out. That's only an issue from a stop, you can't stall once you get going. You'll grind the gears a few times, but it doesn't take long to get the timing right. None of that will really hurt the car.
posted by InfidelZombie at 5:07 PM on July 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
If you need a car anyway, buying a manual to practice on is fine.
Back when I was just out of college, I bought the cheapest car I could find, which was a Geo Metro with manual transmission. I learned to drive a manual on that car; it only took some concerted effort and a few days of practice in a large parking lot, then driving it every day. Took a while before I was confident enough to start on a hill, but that came with practice.
I don't think I damaged the car - actually the doors fell off it after like... 15 years of daily driving, well before the clutch/transmission broke. I drove a manual Honda Fit for another 15 years after that. I'm sad that it will likely be the last manual car I will drive, however much I love my new car from 2021.
posted by gemmy at 5:10 PM on July 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
Back when I was just out of college, I bought the cheapest car I could find, which was a Geo Metro with manual transmission. I learned to drive a manual on that car; it only took some concerted effort and a few days of practice in a large parking lot, then driving it every day. Took a while before I was confident enough to start on a hill, but that came with practice.
I don't think I damaged the car - actually the doors fell off it after like... 15 years of daily driving, well before the clutch/transmission broke. I drove a manual Honda Fit for another 15 years after that. I'm sad that it will likely be the last manual car I will drive, however much I love my new car from 2021.
posted by gemmy at 5:10 PM on July 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
I learned to drive on a stick shift and I think it's a good skill to have. I'd buy the cheapest stick shift car you possibly can that runs if you want to buy one, but I think there are some other really good suggestions here about how you might not have to buy one.
They can be fine as a daily driver but I'd also pay attention to what people say (i.e. many other people won't be able to drive them as one example). It's also worth considering where you live. I had a stick shift truck in Seattle and it was a SLOG mainly because Seattle was seriously hilly. I was an experienced driver but it was just some extra hassle for not a lot of benefit. If you are somewhere where you won't have to do a lot of hill starts right off the bat, it's definitely a thing you can do. It's also just somewhat fiddly, something you have to always be paying attention to instead of "set it and forget it" automatics.
Unless you're really not paying attention to the feedback the car is giving you, or are a really poor study, you're not going to damage an old stick shift too much unless the clutch is already on its last legs. Most people pick it up relatively quickly
posted by jessamyn at 5:15 PM on July 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
They can be fine as a daily driver but I'd also pay attention to what people say (i.e. many other people won't be able to drive them as one example). It's also worth considering where you live. I had a stick shift truck in Seattle and it was a SLOG mainly because Seattle was seriously hilly. I was an experienced driver but it was just some extra hassle for not a lot of benefit. If you are somewhere where you won't have to do a lot of hill starts right off the bat, it's definitely a thing you can do. It's also just somewhat fiddly, something you have to always be paying attention to instead of "set it and forget it" automatics.
Unless you're really not paying attention to the feedback the car is giving you, or are a really poor study, you're not going to damage an old stick shift too much unless the clutch is already on its last legs. Most people pick it up relatively quickly
posted by jessamyn at 5:15 PM on July 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
with the understanding that the process of learning will probably damage the car somewhat
I drive a stick, and I'm sure this was NOT my father's thinking, when I was his student.
This was my development, possibly the optimal progression:
First, before any motors are involved, you learn to ride a bicycle. A 'cruiser' with only one gear; a 'no-speed'.
Second, you get larger, your desired range increases, and you move up to a bike with gears. THIS is where you learn about shifting, why you'd want to, and when upshifting/downshifting is appropriate.
Finally, it's time to drive a motor with a clutch and transmission. As ralan said, the hardest part is from dead stop to first-gear motion; I like to teach this in big, flat, empty parking lots. Clutch in, give it some gas as clutch comes up, repeat until you can get the car moving without stalling. Once you master that clutch action, time to learn switching gears, and there you go!
You may hate it; learn the skill before buying a manual car.
posted by Rash at 5:24 PM on July 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
I drive a stick, and I'm sure this was NOT my father's thinking, when I was his student.
This was my development, possibly the optimal progression:
First, before any motors are involved, you learn to ride a bicycle. A 'cruiser' with only one gear; a 'no-speed'.
Second, you get larger, your desired range increases, and you move up to a bike with gears. THIS is where you learn about shifting, why you'd want to, and when upshifting/downshifting is appropriate.
Finally, it's time to drive a motor with a clutch and transmission. As ralan said, the hardest part is from dead stop to first-gear motion; I like to teach this in big, flat, empty parking lots. Clutch in, give it some gas as clutch comes up, repeat until you can get the car moving without stalling. Once you master that clutch action, time to learn switching gears, and there you go!
You may hate it; learn the skill before buying a manual car.
posted by Rash at 5:24 PM on July 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
I too can't imagine you're going to do meaningful damage to the car. After all, people in any number of countries learn to drive with a manual transmission as a matter of course. More anecdotally, my mother's car saw no ill effects from my brother and I learning to drive in it. She took us to the train station parking lot and we stalled a whole bunch and were then basically good to go. (I actually got it on my first try, but was so startled by the car moving, I slammed on the brakes and promptly stalled.)
posted by hoyland at 5:25 PM on July 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by hoyland at 5:25 PM on July 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
I learned to drive manual on my dad's '98 Nissan Sentra (which he sold to me after college to be my daily driver for my work commute), and had already learned how to drive an automatic by this point. I'd agree that it's unlikely you'll damage the car by learning to drive stick on it, though I would recommend at least looking up some instructional videos if not have a bit of in-person instruction for it.
That said, do you enjoy driving? Or does it stress you out? Do you deal with a lot of stop & go traffic on your commute? If driving already stresses you out, adding having to manage a clutch and transmission gear to the mix won't improve the situation at all. If you have a lot of stop-and-go traffic, you will be shifting in and out of neutral and won't be able to coast the way you're used to on an automatic. And as for gas mileage, I get the same or slightly better mileage on my 2014 Toyota Corolla automatic than I did on that Sentra, and I track my gas mileage rigorously. You might get slightly better mileage with today's manuals but I don't think it's the differentiator it used to be.
For me, driving the Sentra was only "fun" if I was the only person on the road for a good mile around, and city driving was a slog, so I'd give a think about what your reasons for wanting a manual are before committing to it.
posted by Aleyn at 5:40 PM on July 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
That said, do you enjoy driving? Or does it stress you out? Do you deal with a lot of stop & go traffic on your commute? If driving already stresses you out, adding having to manage a clutch and transmission gear to the mix won't improve the situation at all. If you have a lot of stop-and-go traffic, you will be shifting in and out of neutral and won't be able to coast the way you're used to on an automatic. And as for gas mileage, I get the same or slightly better mileage on my 2014 Toyota Corolla automatic than I did on that Sentra, and I track my gas mileage rigorously. You might get slightly better mileage with today's manuals but I don't think it's the differentiator it used to be.
For me, driving the Sentra was only "fun" if I was the only person on the road for a good mile around, and city driving was a slog, so I'd give a think about what your reasons for wanting a manual are before committing to it.
posted by Aleyn at 5:40 PM on July 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
On a modern car, the automatic may actually be more fuel efficient.
Both my sister and I learned to drive stick on my dad's car. That car became mine and lasted somewhere around 150-160 thousand miles, and we didn't replace the clutch on it (although that's about the max life of a clutch and it was at the point of needing a new one when the gas line rusted through). I had a few friends "learn" on it too (just enough to be able to do it, not get comfortable). So you should be ok.
I've only driven a few other manual transmissions, and those were for short periods of time. I honestly thought my old worn in clutch was easier to shift than the other newer cars I've driven, so I'd still vote for used. But since my sample size is small that may be skewed.
That said, if the clutch is on it's last legs already it may be a bit finicky: at the end there my dad got in my car to drive it to the mechanic and promptly stalled out. I think it was starting to stick. If you were new to driving stick you'd maybe not recognize that it was a clutch problem and not a you problem.
posted by ghost phoneme at 5:52 PM on July 9, 2022
Both my sister and I learned to drive stick on my dad's car. That car became mine and lasted somewhere around 150-160 thousand miles, and we didn't replace the clutch on it (although that's about the max life of a clutch and it was at the point of needing a new one when the gas line rusted through). I had a few friends "learn" on it too (just enough to be able to do it, not get comfortable). So you should be ok.
I've only driven a few other manual transmissions, and those were for short periods of time. I honestly thought my old worn in clutch was easier to shift than the other newer cars I've driven, so I'd still vote for used. But since my sample size is small that may be skewed.
That said, if the clutch is on it's last legs already it may be a bit finicky: at the end there my dad got in my car to drive it to the mechanic and promptly stalled out. I think it was starting to stick. If you were new to driving stick you'd maybe not recognize that it was a clutch problem and not a you problem.
posted by ghost phoneme at 5:52 PM on July 9, 2022
I learned to drive stick in the late 70s on a two-ton horse truck. It really, truly isn't hard. It does take practice, you want to avoid stopping on hills early in the learning process, and you're unlikely to cause any damage to the car unless you're at the tail end of the clutch's life. And yes, it is (or at least can be) fun.
posted by lhauser at 6:15 PM on July 9, 2022
posted by lhauser at 6:15 PM on July 9, 2022
I learned to drive in manual transmission cars in the 1960s. Haven't owned one in a while. The most difficult thing with them is driving in cities with hills, it's tricky coordinating the brake, the clutch, and the gas when the light turns green and the car wants to roll down the hill behind you; if you live in such a place really get some lessons. (San Francsco, how I remember your hills as a relatively new driver!)
Chances are that you will not be able to find a good used one anyway.
posted by mareli at 6:46 PM on July 9, 2022
Chances are that you will not be able to find a good used one anyway.
posted by mareli at 6:46 PM on July 9, 2022
I'm in the same boat or, should I say, car! I love to drive and want to expand my skill set. I plan to pay for lessons to learn -- and also will study for my international driver's license. My own old-but-reliable automatic car is worth maybe less than what you're willing to pay for practice and I hope to keep it a bit longer. It's really hard finding used cars right now, especially cheap ones. My parents had some really old stick shift cars but they finally died out. When the time comes, I'll buy a new vehicle but even those are more limited now.
I've had people on dating sites offer to teach me for free, which is kind but no thanks. I've decided to pay a professional for a few lessons, then move on with my life. If further opportunities to practice come up or I decide to drive rather than take the train or bus on my travels, I'll be acceptably ready. After all, it takes time and practice to adjust to any unfamiliar car!
posted by smorgasbord at 6:50 PM on July 9, 2022
I've had people on dating sites offer to teach me for free, which is kind but no thanks. I've decided to pay a professional for a few lessons, then move on with my life. If further opportunities to practice come up or I decide to drive rather than take the train or bus on my travels, I'll be acceptably ready. After all, it takes time and practice to adjust to any unfamiliar car!
posted by smorgasbord at 6:50 PM on July 9, 2022
When I bought a car with a manual transmission, the day I drove it off the lot was literally the third time I’d driven stick. The first two times didn’t add up to an hour of driving. A friend was visiting and along for the ride when I picked it up. I think I stalled it about seven times that first week, and tried to launch from a dead stop in third a bunch more (successful more often than not, actually). I put over 100,000 miles on the car without any clutch problems.
What I’m saying is that you might be overestimating the difficulty here. I taught my wife in an afternoon (driving circles in a parking lot with a bunch of other learners) and while she struggled with uphill starts for a while (it set off her anxiety, making everything worse) the basic technique really did only take an afternoon.
posted by fedward at 7:09 PM on July 9, 2022
What I’m saying is that you might be overestimating the difficulty here. I taught my wife in an afternoon (driving circles in a parking lot with a bunch of other learners) and while she struggled with uphill starts for a while (it set off her anxiety, making everything worse) the basic technique really did only take an afternoon.
posted by fedward at 7:09 PM on July 9, 2022
There was a time when, often, a car with a manual transmission would get better mileage than its sister model with an automatic. Up until recently, automatic transmissions were convenient, but just... weren't that good. They were slow to respond and shift, and usually only had 3 or 4 forward gears. In the last few years, more and more passenger cars are receiving 5- to 8-speed (or more) smart dual-clutch transmissions. These shift quickly, crisply, and do a much better job and either keeping the engine in the power band for performance, or maximizing economy, for any given travel speed.
So, if you're looking for a newer commuter, depending on the type of driving you do, yes, a 5- or 6-speed manual could likely get better economy than its 4-speed old-style slushbox automatic. But if the automatic options are the newer, smarter dual-clutch autos with more gears, the car's computer is almost certainly better at picking the right gear for the conditions than a human could be, and will give you better economy plus the convenience of an auto.
I learned on a manual, my first cars were manuals ('77 Datsun 510, '81 Subaru wagon, '85 Toyota pickup) my old beater truck is still a manual, but even as much as I enjoy driving one, any future cars I buy (if they're not EVs) are going to be autos. Jokes about a manual being an "anti-theft system" aside, yeah, that has practical drawbacks too. When company visits or someone needs to borrow a car, a manual transmission is a really limiting factor, as relatively few people know how to drive one, and so can't really borrow your car. (Or drive for you, or be a designated driver in your car, etc.) And, as fun as it is on the open road, getting stuck in stop-and-go traffic (especially in a hilly city like Seattle) is just tedious.
If you're gonna do it, learn to do it properly, and don't drive with your left foot resting on the clutch. ;)
posted by xedrik at 7:23 PM on July 9, 2022
So, if you're looking for a newer commuter, depending on the type of driving you do, yes, a 5- or 6-speed manual could likely get better economy than its 4-speed old-style slushbox automatic. But if the automatic options are the newer, smarter dual-clutch autos with more gears, the car's computer is almost certainly better at picking the right gear for the conditions than a human could be, and will give you better economy plus the convenience of an auto.
I learned on a manual, my first cars were manuals ('77 Datsun 510, '81 Subaru wagon, '85 Toyota pickup) my old beater truck is still a manual, but even as much as I enjoy driving one, any future cars I buy (if they're not EVs) are going to be autos. Jokes about a manual being an "anti-theft system" aside, yeah, that has practical drawbacks too. When company visits or someone needs to borrow a car, a manual transmission is a really limiting factor, as relatively few people know how to drive one, and so can't really borrow your car. (Or drive for you, or be a designated driver in your car, etc.) And, as fun as it is on the open road, getting stuck in stop-and-go traffic (especially in a hilly city like Seattle) is just tedious.
If you're gonna do it, learn to do it properly, and don't drive with your left foot resting on the clutch. ;)
posted by xedrik at 7:23 PM on July 9, 2022
As part of your learning journey, you might watch some YouTube videos. I especially like UK driving lesson videos (since manuals are common there), such as this, this, and this.
posted by actionstations at 7:25 PM on July 9, 2022
posted by actionstations at 7:25 PM on July 9, 2022
Speaking from experience I would say this is a bad plan. Manual transmissions can get very finicky as they fall out of maintenance. I got stuck a few miles from home unable to get my beater into gear — my roommate drove over, handed me the keys to his almost new manual transmission, and drove my car home. I had no problems following him.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:27 PM on July 9, 2022
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:27 PM on July 9, 2022
My beloved Honda Accord had a manual transmission. I learned how to drive a stick on it, and it wasn't hard at all. I drove it for 14 years and the transmission remained healthy that whole time. I loved that car, but during those times when I lived in big cities, stop and go traffic was a true pain (clutch on, clutch off, clutch on, clutch off...) and I often got honked at when lights turned green because it took me half a second to put my car in gear because I wasn't willing to sit there at a red light with my foot on the clutch the whole time. Also, starting on a steep uphill isn't the most relaxing thing in the world; it takes some deftness, and I always felt some fear that I might not shift right and I'd roll back into the car behind me or that my foot would slip off the clutch and it would cause the car to stall, which are problems that don't exist with automatic transmissions. I now have an automatic transmission and will never go back, but being able to drive a stick is a cool skill to have.
posted by SageTrail at 8:41 PM on July 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by SageTrail at 8:41 PM on July 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
If you're trying to save money on gas, I'm not sure an older, cheap manual transmission is the way to go. Might not be more fuel efficient than other cars. I think it used to be the case that they were more fuel efficient if driven well? That's what I used to hear and was my excuse for getting them.
It's not that hard to learn. See if a friend might help you. I have an older manual and would for sure let a friend give it go.
posted by bluedaisy at 10:53 PM on July 9, 2022
It's not that hard to learn. See if a friend might help you. I have an older manual and would for sure let a friend give it go.
posted by bluedaisy at 10:53 PM on July 9, 2022
Yeah, I was looking for an old 'Army film from the 1940's teaching manual transmission driving' because some of those types of films are very simple textbook explanatory types of things. I couldn't find one, but I did watch a driving instructor teach someone who knows how to drive an automatic how to drive a manual in twenty minutes. It shouldn't be that hard to learn yourself (if you know at least the basics of clutch and shifter) or 30 minutes in a parking lot with somebody who does know how to drive a manual transmission vehicle.
Pretty much ditto on the rest. New automatics are on par as far as fuel goes, pretty much anything new is more efficient than anything old no matter what. Hills are not a pain, but are like second grade, hard at first, not a big deal later on. Stop and Go traffic is a pain. And the thing I didn't see was metered freeway on ramps where you have to go from a stop to 65mph in a short distance to merge into traffic.... lots of first-second-third gear to match speed and slip in.
I'm 52 and have never owned an automatic so the left foot, right foot, right hand dance is just learning the steps and getting better at it the more you do it until it's second nature.
posted by zengargoyle at 11:39 PM on July 9, 2022
Pretty much ditto on the rest. New automatics are on par as far as fuel goes, pretty much anything new is more efficient than anything old no matter what. Hills are not a pain, but are like second grade, hard at first, not a big deal later on. Stop and Go traffic is a pain. And the thing I didn't see was metered freeway on ramps where you have to go from a stop to 65mph in a short distance to merge into traffic.... lots of first-second-third gear to match speed and slip in.
I'm 52 and have never owned an automatic so the left foot, right foot, right hand dance is just learning the steps and getting better at it the more you do it until it's second nature.
posted by zengargoyle at 11:39 PM on July 9, 2022
Why would the process of learning damage the car? Here in the UK, most drivers learn in manual cars and I do not see an epidemic of damage to those vehicles.
posted by Erinaceus europaeus at 11:55 PM on July 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Erinaceus europaeus at 11:55 PM on July 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
For the record, my SO did in fact break my car trying to learn how to use the clutch correctly. As I told her at the time 20 years ago, it wasn't her fault at all. It only broke because the part was already about to fall.
One of the CV joints gave up after the 8th time she popped the clutch at relatively high RPM. The car was like 12 years old with over 180,000 miles on it and I didn't bother to replace the half shaft on the side that broke when the other one was replaced because it was on its way out even though it would have only cost an extra hundred bucks. Don't be cheap like me and it'll be basically impossible to break a car by learning to drive stick as long as you stop doing what you're doing if things start to smell funny.
posted by wierdo at 3:54 AM on July 10, 2022
One of the CV joints gave up after the 8th time she popped the clutch at relatively high RPM. The car was like 12 years old with over 180,000 miles on it and I didn't bother to replace the half shaft on the side that broke when the other one was replaced because it was on its way out even though it would have only cost an extra hundred bucks. Don't be cheap like me and it'll be basically impossible to break a car by learning to drive stick as long as you stop doing what you're doing if things start to smell funny.
posted by wierdo at 3:54 AM on July 10, 2022
Learning to drive stick well enough takes little enough time that you're not going to damage the car or really even put more than a trivial amount of extra wear on it, so my advice is that if you need a new-to-you car now anyway you should just get the car you want and not a beater.
If you'll be commonly driving it in hilly places, hill-holder or hill assist is a real plus. These systems hold the brakes for you for a second or two after you take your foot off the brake so you don't have to work the handbrake or roll backwards a little bit. Working the handbrake is sort of fun the first time you do it, but just a chore when you're in stop-and-go traffic on a hill. Our new wrx has this, our old Mazda3 and Honda Prelude didn't, and it's nice; one less thing to think about.
Worth asking why you want to do this. Manual transmissions are fun but the modern automatic transmissions, including dual-clutch ones, generally get better mileage. Simple rule of thumb: if the automatic for that model and year is a 4-speed, the manual probably does better, but if the automatic has 6 or more speeds it very likely does better.
Learning to drive stick used to be a valuable skill that would, at the least, open up a whole range of economy and performance cars to you. But in 15 years almost every car will be electric and not have gears at all. Similarly, if you want to get into hardcore performance driving, a modern dual-clutch transmission does everything better than a puny human.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:27 AM on July 10, 2022
If you'll be commonly driving it in hilly places, hill-holder or hill assist is a real plus. These systems hold the brakes for you for a second or two after you take your foot off the brake so you don't have to work the handbrake or roll backwards a little bit. Working the handbrake is sort of fun the first time you do it, but just a chore when you're in stop-and-go traffic on a hill. Our new wrx has this, our old Mazda3 and Honda Prelude didn't, and it's nice; one less thing to think about.
Worth asking why you want to do this. Manual transmissions are fun but the modern automatic transmissions, including dual-clutch ones, generally get better mileage. Simple rule of thumb: if the automatic for that model and year is a 4-speed, the manual probably does better, but if the automatic has 6 or more speeds it very likely does better.
Learning to drive stick used to be a valuable skill that would, at the least, open up a whole range of economy and performance cars to you. But in 15 years almost every car will be electric and not have gears at all. Similarly, if you want to get into hardcore performance driving, a modern dual-clutch transmission does everything better than a puny human.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:27 AM on July 10, 2022
Why would the process of learning damage the car? Here in the UK, most drivers learn in manual cars and I do not see an epidemic of damage to those vehicles.
Drivers who learn to drive automatic transmission cars first pick up different habits than those who learn manual transmission first. It's different from learning with an instructor.
posted by M. at 6:02 AM on July 10, 2022
If you can do it financially, I think it's a great idea. Will it harm the car? Maybe, but probably not if you're able to understand when a certain sound, then sensation, then smell mean "stop what you're doing." That's where it's helpful to have a second person with you. But someone with a gentle, confident touch can figure it out on their own.
I like to start people out in a parking lot or abandoned streets on a downward slope. If you try that: how will you get to a parking lot in the first place? And how will you get the car home after buying it? You may need a friend or a lesson before you go an inch in the new car. Or have the seller drop the car off in said practice lot in the morning and give yourself the entire day to practice.
You should know not all stick shifts are created equal; do you want to learn on a harder or easier one? I learned on persnickety vehicles, but my easygoing car was great for teaching friends.
On gas mileage: it depends on how you drive. I find I just have more autonomy and can opt for more gas burning or less, rather than the automatic transmission deciding for me. I actually love driving stick in traffic but I know I'm in the minority on that.
posted by rockyraccoon at 6:06 AM on July 10, 2022
I like to start people out in a parking lot or abandoned streets on a downward slope. If you try that: how will you get to a parking lot in the first place? And how will you get the car home after buying it? You may need a friend or a lesson before you go an inch in the new car. Or have the seller drop the car off in said practice lot in the morning and give yourself the entire day to practice.
You should know not all stick shifts are created equal; do you want to learn on a harder or easier one? I learned on persnickety vehicles, but my easygoing car was great for teaching friends.
On gas mileage: it depends on how you drive. I find I just have more autonomy and can opt for more gas burning or less, rather than the automatic transmission deciding for me. I actually love driving stick in traffic but I know I'm in the minority on that.
posted by rockyraccoon at 6:06 AM on July 10, 2022
Learning to drive stick used to be a valuable skill that would, at the least, open up a whole range of economy and performance cars to you. But in 15 years almost every car will be electric and not have gears at all.
This is only true in the developed world. Manual transmissions are much easier to fix and continue to be optimal for areas with little or no infrastructure. If you ever decide to go somewhere off the beaten path it’s very possible that driving a manual transmission will be a useful skill.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:06 AM on July 10, 2022
This is only true in the developed world. Manual transmissions are much easier to fix and continue to be optimal for areas with little or no infrastructure. If you ever decide to go somewhere off the beaten path it’s very possible that driving a manual transmission will be a useful skill.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:06 AM on July 10, 2022
Data point re: gas mileage. I’m buying a 2022 Versa, which has a 5-speed model as well as a CVT automatic transmission available. The CVT automatic is rated as 5 mpg more efficient than the manual transmission. Vehicle weight and engine are the same. (I’m still buying the 5 speed as I have some concerns about the CVT reliability).
posted by coldhotel at 6:31 AM on July 10, 2022
posted by coldhotel at 6:31 AM on July 10, 2022
Here's a link to a page showing gas mileage for 2016 Hondas.
In each case the automatic version gets better gas mileage than the manual.
you can enter whatever car you wish to check.
I started with manual transmissions. Mainly pickup trucks for work, eventually purchasing a manual pickup for myself. However I was living in a small town at the time.
Driving a manual in a large city is not my idea of fun. Too many lights, too much stop and go traffic.
posted by yyz at 7:03 AM on July 10, 2022
In each case the automatic version gets better gas mileage than the manual.
you can enter whatever car you wish to check.
I started with manual transmissions. Mainly pickup trucks for work, eventually purchasing a manual pickup for myself. However I was living in a small town at the time.
Driving a manual in a large city is not my idea of fun. Too many lights, too much stop and go traffic.
posted by yyz at 7:03 AM on July 10, 2022
Be sure to have a mechanic check whatever car you buy - manual transmission has a few fun failure modes ranging from just going very hard to use, like a clutch you have to kick, to dangerous habits like falling out of gear on uneven roads. Also note that your brakes work differently depending on whether you're in gear.
(Both of the above were cars with over 200K on the odometer, driven by various people who didn't have the best habits.)
posted by I claim sanctuary at 7:19 AM on July 10, 2022
(Both of the above were cars with over 200K on the odometer, driven by various people who didn't have the best habits.)
posted by I claim sanctuary at 7:19 AM on July 10, 2022
Why would the process of learning damage the car?
Not so much "permanently destroy the car" as "cause premature wear & tear". Without quality instruction, a lot of novice manual learners develop bad habits like:
One thing I forgot to mention earlier, if you do decide to go the manual transmission route, find out of your car has a hill holder. My old '81 Subaru had it, and it made hilly Seattle stoplights much easier. Even without an hill holder function, if the car has a handbrake, you can do much the same thing manually. Takes some practice, but it's a handy skill for hilly locations.
posted by xedrik at 8:13 AM on July 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
Not so much "permanently destroy the car" as "cause premature wear & tear". Without quality instruction, a lot of novice manual learners develop bad habits like:
- Giving too much or prolonged clutch slip when starting out, especially on a hill (causing premature clutch wear)
- Holding the clutch in at a stop instead of shifting into neutral and releasing the clutch (accelerated wear on the throwout bearing and also possible clutch wear if partially engaged)
- Resting the foot on the clutch pedal while driving / riding the clutch (accelerated clutch wear)
One thing I forgot to mention earlier, if you do decide to go the manual transmission route, find out of your car has a hill holder. My old '81 Subaru had it, and it made hilly Seattle stoplights much easier. Even without an hill holder function, if the car has a handbrake, you can do much the same thing manually. Takes some practice, but it's a handy skill for hilly locations.
posted by xedrik at 8:13 AM on July 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
Why would the process of learning damage the car?
It's different from learning with an instructor.
Depends on the instructor. From Wheels Of Fortune, a New Yorker article from 2007, "the People's Republic Learns How to Drive." One Driver's Ed teacher
It's different from learning with an instructor.
Depends on the instructor. From Wheels Of Fortune, a New Yorker article from 2007, "the People's Republic Learns How to Drive." One Driver's Ed teacher
...forced his students to begin every maneuver in second gear. It was more challenging, he said; first gear would only make them lazy.posted by Rash at 8:55 AM on July 10, 2022
You can also learn the feel of shifting on a motorcycle.
posted by Raybun at 9:00 AM on July 10, 2022
posted by Raybun at 9:00 AM on July 10, 2022
Response by poster: I live on Whidbey Island which is mostly rural roads with only one main highway and only a few hills which are avoidable. My reason for wanting to learn is just to pick up a new skill because learning is fun. Also locally I notice that used manual cars go for around $1k-5k, while an automatic starts at $5k. I buy beaters because I don't like cars much; they are tools, I use them, they get dirty and banged up, and i don't stress about it; I don't really care about 'things' that aren't alive. (Mmm croutons). Fuel economy is a nice perk.
Funny you should mention motorcycles; I tried to take a motorcycle driving course, and was kicked out because I couldn't manage the clutch/shifting thing no matter how much the teacher yelled at me, and finally he told me to get out because I was holding back the rest of the class. So I swore I'd never go back to having a human 'teach me' anything.
Didn't get my class fee back either.
posted by The otter lady at 9:13 AM on July 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
Funny you should mention motorcycles; I tried to take a motorcycle driving course, and was kicked out because I couldn't manage the clutch/shifting thing no matter how much the teacher yelled at me, and finally he told me to get out because I was holding back the rest of the class. So I swore I'd never go back to having a human 'teach me' anything.
Didn't get my class fee back either.
posted by The otter lady at 9:13 AM on July 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
I recently taught my son how to drive stick using the Car Talk approach, with great results.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 11:38 AM on July 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 11:38 AM on July 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
Not so much "permanently destroy the car" as "cause premature wear & tear". Without quality instruction, a lot of novice manual learners develop bad habits like
Can I push back a little on this? Modern manual transmissions are not delicate flowers.
If you have really good habits about everything and are very skilled, you might reasonably expect to need to replace your clutch at 100000-150000 miles, and you could reasonably expect that when it's time to put in the next clutch the car will be more valuable as scrap metal than as a car.
If you learn to drive stick in the car and develop some normal-level bad habits, you might reasonably expect to need to replace the clutch at 75000-100000 miles and you could reasonably expect that when it's time to put in the next clutch the car will be more valuable as scrap metal than as a car. I am aware that there exist people with spectacularly bad habits who would need to replace their clutch at 30-40K miles, but those seem to be rare.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 12:14 PM on July 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
Can I push back a little on this? Modern manual transmissions are not delicate flowers.
If you have really good habits about everything and are very skilled, you might reasonably expect to need to replace your clutch at 100000-150000 miles, and you could reasonably expect that when it's time to put in the next clutch the car will be more valuable as scrap metal than as a car.
If you learn to drive stick in the car and develop some normal-level bad habits, you might reasonably expect to need to replace the clutch at 75000-100000 miles and you could reasonably expect that when it's time to put in the next clutch the car will be more valuable as scrap metal than as a car. I am aware that there exist people with spectacularly bad habits who would need to replace their clutch at 30-40K miles, but those seem to be rare.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 12:14 PM on July 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
When I learned to drive in Germany more than 25 years ago I was actually taught a few general things.
In every single manual transmission vehicle I’ve driven the gears were always ordered the same way with the exception of reverse. The gear stick will show you where it is. You’ll notice it will also indicate another gear in the same spot in most cases. You may have to look up/play with it to figure out if you have to push down the stick or lift up a ring under the stick handle to get into reverse.
If the car is not in gear the stick typically rests in front of 3rd gear. To get into 1-3 keep you hand on the right side of the stick palm facing your leg. To get into 4-5/6 keep your hand on the left side palm facing the passenger seat. Just helps with muscle memory and automating the actions.
First gear only exists to overcome inertia and as soon as the car moves you shift up.
Except if there is snow or ice on the ground. It will take less effort to overcome inertia on snow/ice and you are much more likely to spin your wheels in 1st. You can pull away in 2nd in those conditions.
Bearing in mind that it is good practice to steer with both hands, when pulling away at a traffic light and turning, there is a point there after pulling away where you can shift up but if you miss that, you’ll need your hands to steer to finish the turn. If you miss that point finish the turn and then shift.
When accelerating on a ramp you stay in the lower gear for longer because it allows you to accelerate with more ease. You can also drop down a gear to overtake on a motorway. And definitely drop down in good time going up an incline. The higher gears exist only for fuel economy. But you gain the economy by giving up power.
No two cars have the exact same bite point. Whenever you get into a new to you car expect to stall it or almost stall it a few times until you’ve got used to that particular clutch.
posted by koahiatamadl at 2:50 PM on July 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
In every single manual transmission vehicle I’ve driven the gears were always ordered the same way with the exception of reverse. The gear stick will show you where it is. You’ll notice it will also indicate another gear in the same spot in most cases. You may have to look up/play with it to figure out if you have to push down the stick or lift up a ring under the stick handle to get into reverse.
If the car is not in gear the stick typically rests in front of 3rd gear. To get into 1-3 keep you hand on the right side of the stick palm facing your leg. To get into 4-5/6 keep your hand on the left side palm facing the passenger seat. Just helps with muscle memory and automating the actions.
First gear only exists to overcome inertia and as soon as the car moves you shift up.
Except if there is snow or ice on the ground. It will take less effort to overcome inertia on snow/ice and you are much more likely to spin your wheels in 1st. You can pull away in 2nd in those conditions.
Bearing in mind that it is good practice to steer with both hands, when pulling away at a traffic light and turning, there is a point there after pulling away where you can shift up but if you miss that, you’ll need your hands to steer to finish the turn. If you miss that point finish the turn and then shift.
When accelerating on a ramp you stay in the lower gear for longer because it allows you to accelerate with more ease. You can also drop down a gear to overtake on a motorway. And definitely drop down in good time going up an incline. The higher gears exist only for fuel economy. But you gain the economy by giving up power.
No two cars have the exact same bite point. Whenever you get into a new to you car expect to stall it or almost stall it a few times until you’ve got used to that particular clutch.
posted by koahiatamadl at 2:50 PM on July 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
So as not to abuse the edit function- modern cars have engine management systems that will indicate what gear they think you should be in at a a given time. The numbers pop up on the dash display - ignore that if you find it confusing.
posted by koahiatamadl at 2:55 PM on July 10, 2022
posted by koahiatamadl at 2:55 PM on July 10, 2022
I drive a stick (Mazda 6) and I like it but I would note the following:
1) Nowadays in many cases the automatics get as good or better mileage than the manuals do. See Edmunds, Car Talk
2) Not clear that owning stick is any cheaper than an automatic. You will likely replace the clutch at least once, possibly twice, before you replace an automatic transmission
3) If you drive in very slow traffic they can be tiresome to drive, at least I find it so. I will likely never own another manual unless I pick up a Miata (special case as would be for open road driving)
On the other hand, if someone tries to carjack you, there is a good chance they won't know how to drive your manual transmission and will stall. ; )
posted by jcworth at 10:14 PM on July 10, 2022
1) Nowadays in many cases the automatics get as good or better mileage than the manuals do. See Edmunds, Car Talk
2) Not clear that owning stick is any cheaper than an automatic. You will likely replace the clutch at least once, possibly twice, before you replace an automatic transmission
3) If you drive in very slow traffic they can be tiresome to drive, at least I find it so. I will likely never own another manual unless I pick up a Miata (special case as would be for open road driving)
On the other hand, if someone tries to carjack you, there is a good chance they won't know how to drive your manual transmission and will stall. ; )
posted by jcworth at 10:14 PM on July 10, 2022
This is pretty much what the 2003-2008 Corolla exists for.
posted by transitional procedures at 10:19 PM on July 10, 2022
posted by transitional procedures at 10:19 PM on July 10, 2022
you might reasonably expect to need to replace your clutch at 100000-150000 miles
I'm not disagreeing with this (if anything, I'd expect to go even longer), but keep in mind that the OP's looking to spend around $3k. At that price range, the cars available are already going to be high-mileage. I took a look at Seattle Craigslist - there are only a handful of cars less than 15 years old, nearly all of which have 200k miles already and/or other major repairs needed.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:45 AM on July 11, 2022
I'm not disagreeing with this (if anything, I'd expect to go even longer), but keep in mind that the OP's looking to spend around $3k. At that price range, the cars available are already going to be high-mileage. I took a look at Seattle Craigslist - there are only a handful of cars less than 15 years old, nearly all of which have 200k miles already and/or other major repairs needed.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:45 AM on July 11, 2022
My whole family and a lot of our friends learned to drive on the same standard car. The jerking and bucking as you learn to use the clutch looks as though it would damage the car, but it doesn't. It usually takes a couple of hours spread over two days to get good at this. It's not worth worrying about. If you buy a car just to learn on you'll be ready to sell it again in about a week, and it'll still be in good shape.
posted by AugustusCrunch at 10:46 PM on July 11, 2022
posted by AugustusCrunch at 10:46 PM on July 11, 2022
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 4:03 PM on July 9, 2022 [9 favorites]