Helping a broke would-be retiree
May 26, 2022 10:06 AM Subscribe
My parent is in no condition to work but no economic shape to retire. Our other parent died long before retirement age so we have not ever dealt with anything like this -- looking for resources, solutions, strategies, really anything. A rich tapestry of dysfunction is below the cut.
My mother is in her mid 60s. She never wanted to retire, never made a ton of money--always between 40 and 60K in a medium-high COL area--and has at best a reality-adjacent attitude toward money. (For example, she has been saying her retirement plan was simply to win the lottery, which is made even LESS plausible by the fact that she does not play the lottery.) Basically, she's been in denial and vaguely hoping for/assuming the best.
However, in the last five years she has had a massive, massive downturn in her health along most axes. She is not doing well at her job or her life. At the same time, she is watching all of her siblings retire comfortably, and now she wants to as well.
Except she can't, because:
- her 401K has only about 10K in it, despite her working steadily for 30 years. We can't figure out whether this is because she's accessed those funds for other stuff? Never contributed anything? Just never contributed enough? We don't know, and it basically doesn't matter, because it's too late.
- She will qualify for some amount of social security, probably in the ballpark of $1700 a month, but that's it.
- She MAY have some other investments that are paying small amounts? We can't tell yet; her house was filled with uncashed checks from any number of sources (HSAs, refunds...and some stuff that looked like maybe dividends from SOMEthing, but she has no idea what. She doesn't open her mail.)
- She owes enough on her condo that a sale might just about break even.
- She has two enormous, high-needs dogs that make relocating a very difficult proposition.
As her kids, we're a bit at a loss. We had no reason to think she was NOT contributing to her 401K, and while we knew about the mortgage it wasn't a problem really as she just intended to stay there, and it's not an obscenely high payment or anything. We're also kind of reeling from the amount of pure dysfunction she managed to hide from us for so long -- so many unpaid debts, so much unopened mail, uncashed checks, etc.
None of this is an immediate emergency. A recent hospital stay has helped to stabilize some of her conditions. Her job is supportive; they have recently been urging her to take FMLA as she manages her illnesses, but they have no intention of firing her. She has good insurance through them, and she has Medicare now as well. She has enough money in her checking account that we're not worried about the next, say, 6-12 months. But we are trying to give some shape to the next 3-5 years and we're stumped.
Currently, we just all...abandon our entire lives for weeks at a time to stay with her and keep her functioning. Two of us are childless, with flexible-ish jobs, so it's been feasible so far. But we can't actually full-time relocate to where she is--we have partners, lives, apartments, local commitments. And our jobs still require travel and some degree of on-site availability.
A third sibling has a full-on family and cannot visit often; they have enough space to take her in, but cannot take her dogs for a variety of reasons. (For what it's worth, all of us are allergic to the dogs.) They also live in a slightly lower COL area, FWIW.
All of us kids have a little money to spare, but not tons. And we can't afford to quit our jobs or scale them back--after all, we don't have kids to bail us out in 25 years when we hit her age, so we don't have the luxury of just completely beefing it on our retirement plans or savings (not that I'm bitter. I'm extremely bitter).
Right now we're just living day-to-day, or week-to-week at best, jumping from crisis to crisis, and we can't keep doing that. It would be different if she were, say 85. But she could easily live another 20 years. We need systems.
So TL;DR, my parent prepared 0% for retirement, what are some sustainable ways we could structure her life for the near term? We're willing to look at the pros and cons of just about any options--bankruptcy to clear her debts? Reverse mortgages? sell the house? rehome the dogs? SSDI? Train robbery? Try to support her so she can keep working instead? Really anything.
Our goals: keep her safe, fed, and housed without utterly torpedoing all of our own lives. (I know, I know--in THIS economy?)
Thanks in advance, MeFi!
My mother is in her mid 60s. She never wanted to retire, never made a ton of money--always between 40 and 60K in a medium-high COL area--and has at best a reality-adjacent attitude toward money. (For example, she has been saying her retirement plan was simply to win the lottery, which is made even LESS plausible by the fact that she does not play the lottery.) Basically, she's been in denial and vaguely hoping for/assuming the best.
However, in the last five years she has had a massive, massive downturn in her health along most axes. She is not doing well at her job or her life. At the same time, she is watching all of her siblings retire comfortably, and now she wants to as well.
Except she can't, because:
- her 401K has only about 10K in it, despite her working steadily for 30 years. We can't figure out whether this is because she's accessed those funds for other stuff? Never contributed anything? Just never contributed enough? We don't know, and it basically doesn't matter, because it's too late.
- She will qualify for some amount of social security, probably in the ballpark of $1700 a month, but that's it.
- She MAY have some other investments that are paying small amounts? We can't tell yet; her house was filled with uncashed checks from any number of sources (HSAs, refunds...and some stuff that looked like maybe dividends from SOMEthing, but she has no idea what. She doesn't open her mail.)
- She owes enough on her condo that a sale might just about break even.
- She has two enormous, high-needs dogs that make relocating a very difficult proposition.
As her kids, we're a bit at a loss. We had no reason to think she was NOT contributing to her 401K, and while we knew about the mortgage it wasn't a problem really as she just intended to stay there, and it's not an obscenely high payment or anything. We're also kind of reeling from the amount of pure dysfunction she managed to hide from us for so long -- so many unpaid debts, so much unopened mail, uncashed checks, etc.
None of this is an immediate emergency. A recent hospital stay has helped to stabilize some of her conditions. Her job is supportive; they have recently been urging her to take FMLA as she manages her illnesses, but they have no intention of firing her. She has good insurance through them, and she has Medicare now as well. She has enough money in her checking account that we're not worried about the next, say, 6-12 months. But we are trying to give some shape to the next 3-5 years and we're stumped.
Currently, we just all...abandon our entire lives for weeks at a time to stay with her and keep her functioning. Two of us are childless, with flexible-ish jobs, so it's been feasible so far. But we can't actually full-time relocate to where she is--we have partners, lives, apartments, local commitments. And our jobs still require travel and some degree of on-site availability.
A third sibling has a full-on family and cannot visit often; they have enough space to take her in, but cannot take her dogs for a variety of reasons. (For what it's worth, all of us are allergic to the dogs.) They also live in a slightly lower COL area, FWIW.
All of us kids have a little money to spare, but not tons. And we can't afford to quit our jobs or scale them back--after all, we don't have kids to bail us out in 25 years when we hit her age, so we don't have the luxury of just completely beefing it on our retirement plans or savings (not that I'm bitter. I'm extremely bitter).
Right now we're just living day-to-day, or week-to-week at best, jumping from crisis to crisis, and we can't keep doing that. It would be different if she were, say 85. But she could easily live another 20 years. We need systems.
So TL;DR, my parent prepared 0% for retirement, what are some sustainable ways we could structure her life for the near term? We're willing to look at the pros and cons of just about any options--bankruptcy to clear her debts? Reverse mortgages? sell the house? rehome the dogs? SSDI? Train robbery? Try to support her so she can keep working instead? Really anything.
Our goals: keep her safe, fed, and housed without utterly torpedoing all of our own lives. (I know, I know--in THIS economy?)
Thanks in advance, MeFi!
I'm sure this has occurred to you already, but not opening her mail—and, related, not knowing who might be mailing her checks and why—seems like the issue that's at the best part of the "pressing/solvable" axis. Ideally she'd be the one doing that herself, but I would be sitting down with her and figuring out what all those accounts are, getting online access to them if possible, and either automating them or moving the money out of there and into something that's automatic.
Next up would be running the numbers on her social security situation. If she's in her mid-60s she's already pretty close to full retirement age, though if she's capable of continuing to work and wants to after the leave she can defer a little longer to make the checks bigger. (Though at that point you'd have to account for the checks she didn't take to see when she'd break even, etc. etc. There's a guy named Tom Morgenau who has a column about social security in a bunch of newspapers every week—I am 35 so this won't apply to me for a while but I read his column because it's amazing and a little frightening to me that there are enough SS-related edge cases and problems to generate a weekly column.)
Make sure you get this as right as possible—based on my read of said column, SS is weirdly and probably needlessly complex, but it'll be worth your time to have penciled out the math on multiple permutations of her beginning to take social security. (Also, if she was married to your other parent it might be worth looking into survivors benefits and stuff—I know very little about them but I think you can receive survivors benefits before applying for your own social security, allowing you to start at your higher number by deferring retirement until you're 70.)
After that I would be trying to sort out the living situation. In the long term moving her to the lower COL area with grandkids, even if not in the same house, seems like not a bad idea; if she's capable of giving a hand with the kids occasionally or just watching them... as someone with young kids whose friends all also have young kids, I'll just say that that helpfulness covers up a lot of personal flakiness when you're an adult child looking at your relationship with your aging parent. (Obviously it's great for all kinds of other reasons, too, but even if I didn't have a really good relationship with my parents, and even if my kid didn't love them, man it's huge to have an extra pair of hands sometimes.)
posted by Polycarp at 10:28 AM on May 26, 2022 [7 favorites]
Next up would be running the numbers on her social security situation. If she's in her mid-60s she's already pretty close to full retirement age, though if she's capable of continuing to work and wants to after the leave she can defer a little longer to make the checks bigger. (Though at that point you'd have to account for the checks she didn't take to see when she'd break even, etc. etc. There's a guy named Tom Morgenau who has a column about social security in a bunch of newspapers every week—I am 35 so this won't apply to me for a while but I read his column because it's amazing and a little frightening to me that there are enough SS-related edge cases and problems to generate a weekly column.)
Make sure you get this as right as possible—based on my read of said column, SS is weirdly and probably needlessly complex, but it'll be worth your time to have penciled out the math on multiple permutations of her beginning to take social security. (Also, if she was married to your other parent it might be worth looking into survivors benefits and stuff—I know very little about them but I think you can receive survivors benefits before applying for your own social security, allowing you to start at your higher number by deferring retirement until you're 70.)
After that I would be trying to sort out the living situation. In the long term moving her to the lower COL area with grandkids, even if not in the same house, seems like not a bad idea; if she's capable of giving a hand with the kids occasionally or just watching them... as someone with young kids whose friends all also have young kids, I'll just say that that helpfulness covers up a lot of personal flakiness when you're an adult child looking at your relationship with your aging parent. (Obviously it's great for all kinds of other reasons, too, but even if I didn't have a really good relationship with my parents, and even if my kid didn't love them, man it's huge to have an extra pair of hands sometimes.)
posted by Polycarp at 10:28 AM on May 26, 2022 [7 favorites]
Are the siblings who are retiring comfortably any help either practically or in advice or information about her situation? Is there someone who could maybe take her dogs, or who she could live with or near?
posted by LizardBreath at 10:31 AM on May 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by LizardBreath at 10:31 AM on May 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
The best thing she can do financially is to keep receiving a salary as long as possible. If she's currently making between $40-$60,000, then for example a few extra years of salary will mean something on the order of $75,000 in net extra resources.
That will also allow her to delay claiming Social Security, which results in higher monthly benefits, as discussed in this question a few days ago. (Applying for Social Security Disability is only a benefit if she is below her full retirement age, which is now about 66 1/2, and if you're just below that age it's not much better than retiring, and she would only qualify if she could no longer work, so that's unlikely to help much.)
She owes enough on her condo that a sale might just about break even. Do you literally mean she has absolutely no equity - that the amount she owes is the value of the house? If so, a reverse mortgage is not an option, as you generally need to have at least 50% equity.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 10:41 AM on May 26, 2022 [6 favorites]
That will also allow her to delay claiming Social Security, which results in higher monthly benefits, as discussed in this question a few days ago. (Applying for Social Security Disability is only a benefit if she is below her full retirement age, which is now about 66 1/2, and if you're just below that age it's not much better than retiring, and she would only qualify if she could no longer work, so that's unlikely to help much.)
She owes enough on her condo that a sale might just about break even. Do you literally mean she has absolutely no equity - that the amount she owes is the value of the house? If so, a reverse mortgage is not an option, as you generally need to have at least 50% equity.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 10:41 AM on May 26, 2022 [6 favorites]
Probably she might move to be closer to family, especially if doing so will result in lower living costs. It is not reasonable to expect your adult children to travel to help you out if you have the option of relocating to make it easier on them. Medical issues get worse later in life, so there’s no reason to expect things not to continue long term.
If that is possible, it would be good to explore subsidized elder housing options near you and your siblings. Depending on the state, this may be great or may be terrible. Many locales offer “elder advocate” type people that can tell you everything about local elder care and housing. Otherwise, the same advice but in her area.
Others have covered much of the financial angle better than I can. In any event, good luck to you and your mother.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 11:02 AM on May 26, 2022
If that is possible, it would be good to explore subsidized elder housing options near you and your siblings. Depending on the state, this may be great or may be terrible. Many locales offer “elder advocate” type people that can tell you everything about local elder care and housing. Otherwise, the same advice but in her area.
Others have covered much of the financial angle better than I can. In any event, good luck to you and your mother.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 11:02 AM on May 26, 2022
I am not sure about most of the stuff in your question, but one thing I know, is that the money from many of those uncashed checks could be in the state of residence unclaimed property administration, and you can search for this by going to Unclaimed.org
The other thing to know is if your parents were married for more than 10 years, and your father made more money than your mother, than she might qualify for his higher payment. Maybe doesn't apply here, but just wanted to mention it.
posted by momochan at 11:17 AM on May 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
The other thing to know is if your parents were married for more than 10 years, and your father made more money than your mother, than she might qualify for his higher payment. Maybe doesn't apply here, but just wanted to mention it.
posted by momochan at 11:17 AM on May 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Do you literally mean she has absolutely no equity - that the amount she owes is the value of the house?
That is probably the case; she bought about 3 months before the 2009 crash, was underwater on it for years, current estimates of the value of the house are about 20-25K over her current owed amount and we're assuming fees and closing costs and moving costs will devour that in a hot second. (We're assuming--none of us has ever been able to afford to buy a house, natch, so that's all a mystery to us too!)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:19 AM on May 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
That is probably the case; she bought about 3 months before the 2009 crash, was underwater on it for years, current estimates of the value of the house are about 20-25K over her current owed amount and we're assuming fees and closing costs and moving costs will devour that in a hot second. (We're assuming--none of us has ever been able to afford to buy a house, natch, so that's all a mystery to us too!)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:19 AM on May 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
You should categorize the advice you get here and elsewhere in terms of timeframes: What you need to do now, what you do in the medium term, what you do in the long term.
Right now, I'd suggest you get a process in place for working through all of her current mail, and for how to manage all new mail; and you create a balance sheet that covers all her financial positions as well as estimates for social security and related income sources. Those two things will give you the strongest foundation for making decisions about medium- and long-term actions.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 11:31 AM on May 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
Right now, I'd suggest you get a process in place for working through all of her current mail, and for how to manage all new mail; and you create a balance sheet that covers all her financial positions as well as estimates for social security and related income sources. Those two things will give you the strongest foundation for making decisions about medium- and long-term actions.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 11:31 AM on May 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
Right there with you--at 44, going on 45, mother close to 70, this is all becoming very real.
One factoid that I haven't even begun to investigate yet--just dropping it here FYI. MediCARE will only pay for skilled nursing services in-home, not long-term home health aide-type care. You may know that MedicAID will pay for nursing home care once your assets are "spent down," as praemunire mentions above. Turns out it is also possible to get MedicAID to pay for regular, unskilled home care through a waiver program--as it were, you have the right to use the dollars they would have spent on a nursing home to fund home care services instead. I've seen it done with adult disabled people at my work, but I have no direct experience with a waiver for senior care. So worth looking into. In Texas it's called a Star Plus waiver.
She may have precious few assets to protect, but the name of the instrument is a "Medicaid asset protection trust," MAPT, to hold onto what's left while still gaining Medicaid eligibility.
posted by 8603 at 11:40 AM on May 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
One factoid that I haven't even begun to investigate yet--just dropping it here FYI. MediCARE will only pay for skilled nursing services in-home, not long-term home health aide-type care. You may know that MedicAID will pay for nursing home care once your assets are "spent down," as praemunire mentions above. Turns out it is also possible to get MedicAID to pay for regular, unskilled home care through a waiver program--as it were, you have the right to use the dollars they would have spent on a nursing home to fund home care services instead. I've seen it done with adult disabled people at my work, but I have no direct experience with a waiver for senior care. So worth looking into. In Texas it's called a Star Plus waiver.
She may have precious few assets to protect, but the name of the instrument is a "Medicaid asset protection trust," MAPT, to hold onto what's left while still gaining Medicaid eligibility.
posted by 8603 at 11:40 AM on May 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
As I mentioned in another recent AskMe about Social Security, as a widow, she can apply to take the deceased spouse’s benefits now and postpone taking her own until age 70 1/2. I am currently doing this myself. You can’t apply online; you have to call Social Security.
posted by elphaba at 12:10 PM on May 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by elphaba at 12:10 PM on May 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
Can she collect more on your Dad's Soc. Sec? worth checking. Check the Unclaimed property sites for her state and others, because uncashed checks turn into unclaimed assets and can be claimed. Stick any such funds in her 401K. I end up with money that way from insurance or weird stuff or that one benefit I kind of didn't deal with. Do your best to discover any debts, but she's unlikely to be buying real estate and her credit score may not be a major issue.
Your Mom is going to be kind of poor, and should get signed up for housing assistance wherever she's going to live. The wait times are long. Check into the area Agency on Aging in your locations, decide the best place for her to love and begin planning. She's extremely lucky to have kids committed to helping care for her.
posted by theora55 at 12:13 PM on May 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
Your Mom is going to be kind of poor, and should get signed up for housing assistance wherever she's going to live. The wait times are long. Check into the area Agency on Aging in your locations, decide the best place for her to love and begin planning. She's extremely lucky to have kids committed to helping care for her.
posted by theora55 at 12:13 PM on May 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
Does she have any friends or family members who would like a housemate? We have models for couples and parents living together, but does she have any single or couples friends who would like a tenant, at least while she’s in good health? It might be a way to live independently but more cheaply.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:37 PM on May 26, 2022
posted by bluedaisy at 12:37 PM on May 26, 2022
Response by poster: (oh to be clear, she is not a widow, my parents were divorced for over 20 years when my father died.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:41 PM on May 26, 2022
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:41 PM on May 26, 2022
40,000-60,000 brings in a lot more than $1,700. I took social security early one year it was a 15.00 loss. Maybe her illness influenced her executive functions and they will improve with care. Getting on housing lists takes years to become a dwelling. She may be too well off for this. Does your mom like where she lives, does she have friends and activities there? Sounds like her work appreciates her. Sometimes having good medical can be deadly. Here describes that. Some standard meds thrown at people destroy their quality of life, and wellness.
Remember your worries about how your life will be impacted, won't help her. Just wade through the paperwork, find her money, make sure she isn't being robbed by her church. Find out about your father's insurance payout, find annuities if that is how he left his assets to her. If you are unable to make sense of it, find some scrupulously honest CPA to, maybe with a recommendation from adult senior services.
My kids worried they will have to take care of me because of how they think. Me, driving my grandson to school, letting their dogs out at noon, while they work. Me, paying $80 to fill my tank today, after making a bunch of school drives while parents were working out of town. Get her well, that is what has to happen, before anything else, unless you can find a leak in her financial well being. Love her, she is too young to be this destroyed. What looks like dysfunction to you may represent a high level of function, in comparison to working while in unmitigated ill health.
posted by Oyéah at 12:49 PM on May 26, 2022
Remember your worries about how your life will be impacted, won't help her. Just wade through the paperwork, find her money, make sure she isn't being robbed by her church. Find out about your father's insurance payout, find annuities if that is how he left his assets to her. If you are unable to make sense of it, find some scrupulously honest CPA to, maybe with a recommendation from adult senior services.
My kids worried they will have to take care of me because of how they think. Me, driving my grandson to school, letting their dogs out at noon, while they work. Me, paying $80 to fill my tank today, after making a bunch of school drives while parents were working out of town. Get her well, that is what has to happen, before anything else, unless you can find a leak in her financial well being. Love her, she is too young to be this destroyed. What looks like dysfunction to you may represent a high level of function, in comparison to working while in unmitigated ill health.
posted by Oyéah at 12:49 PM on May 26, 2022
If the marriage lasted more than 10 years, she may still be eligible for the spouse's social security (Scroll down to "Surviving Divorced Spouse"). It's worth reading the fine print or talking to an expert
posted by mcgsa at 12:53 PM on May 26, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by mcgsa at 12:53 PM on May 26, 2022 [11 favorites]
Some random thoughts.
As a first step, and assuming she's happy to let you sort out her affairs, you need to work out what her net position is. Try to work out how much she owes from the paperwork, and see if you can deposit the checks that she has. That will help you work out whether bankruptcy would be a helpful option for her.
I suspect the dogs will make her unwilling to move anywhere that won't take them. You could spend a lot of effort trying to get her to take a different approach, but I'm not sure it will be worth it. Instead I would think about what you might do when either the dogs die, or (less likely in the short term) she becomes so incapable of managing that you have no other choice but to move her without them.
Unless she moves in with your sibling, it sounds as if she will need to either pay rent or her condo mortgage throughout much of her retirement. Looking to the medium term, you might want to see whether her mortgage and condo fees are more or less than what she would need to pay in rent for an acceptable property.
Are you sure that she only has the one 401(k) pot? If she's been working for the same employer for 20 years that might be the case, but it's possible that there might be other pots, and not just from other jobs (for example if they changed provider at some point).
posted by plonkee at 1:20 PM on May 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
As a first step, and assuming she's happy to let you sort out her affairs, you need to work out what her net position is. Try to work out how much she owes from the paperwork, and see if you can deposit the checks that she has. That will help you work out whether bankruptcy would be a helpful option for her.
I suspect the dogs will make her unwilling to move anywhere that won't take them. You could spend a lot of effort trying to get her to take a different approach, but I'm not sure it will be worth it. Instead I would think about what you might do when either the dogs die, or (less likely in the short term) she becomes so incapable of managing that you have no other choice but to move her without them.
Unless she moves in with your sibling, it sounds as if she will need to either pay rent or her condo mortgage throughout much of her retirement. Looking to the medium term, you might want to see whether her mortgage and condo fees are more or less than what she would need to pay in rent for an acceptable property.
Are you sure that she only has the one 401(k) pot? If she's been working for the same employer for 20 years that might be the case, but it's possible that there might be other pots, and not just from other jobs (for example if they changed provider at some point).
posted by plonkee at 1:20 PM on May 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
401K has only about 10K in it, despite her working steadily for 30 years. We can't figure out whether this is because she's accessed those funds for other stuff? Never contributed anything? Just never contributed enough? We don't know, and it basically doesn't matter, because it's too late.
It matters! It’s absolutely possible that she was contributing funds that got misallocated, or her employer switched providers and her balance got mixed up. OR, worst of all, she took multiple loans out from the 401k which she will need to pay back with interest if certain triggering events occur such as her leaving her job.
posted by bq at 1:35 PM on May 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
It matters! It’s absolutely possible that she was contributing funds that got misallocated, or her employer switched providers and her balance got mixed up. OR, worst of all, she took multiple loans out from the 401k which she will need to pay back with interest if certain triggering events occur such as her leaving her job.
posted by bq at 1:35 PM on May 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
As mcgsa mentioned, if she was married ten years or more, she can get a monthly payment equivalent of half of her ex’s benefit. (I also recently helped a friend with this.) If the ex is deceased, or when he dies, she’s entitled to his full amount. It doesn’t matter if he has remarried; she can still get the benefit.
posted by elphaba at 1:47 PM on May 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by elphaba at 1:47 PM on May 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
I would definitely look for other retirement savings. My employer switched providers and so mine is split (in Canada.)
I just wanted to talk about her moving in. The dogs obviously are a huge issue, but depending on their ages that may not be an issue forever.
My MIL moved in with us for both medical and financial reasons and it has been really great. We did plan for it years ahead to set up our space as well as possible. But it's really a joy. She contributes some financially but it's according to her means, and in her case it leaves her enough funds to travel from time to time or take classes.
For us, it means we can see how she's doing, take her to appointments, make sure she's cared for etc. right here in our home which saves us a lot of worry and travel. And obviously it's very personal but we all get along and having her around is fun and our family unit is stronger for it. She also helps with childcare - it's less necessary as my kids get older and also there are some things she is not as good at (like enforcing rules, and occasionally I worry about cognitive things although that seems to be fading as she gets out more post-acute-lockdown phase of the pandemic.)
Anyways, I hope maybe if that is something that eventually happens you can also take the joy in it. It is a real shock when you learn these realities and very stressful, for sure. It does not always result in misery though.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:49 PM on May 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
I just wanted to talk about her moving in. The dogs obviously are a huge issue, but depending on their ages that may not be an issue forever.
My MIL moved in with us for both medical and financial reasons and it has been really great. We did plan for it years ahead to set up our space as well as possible. But it's really a joy. She contributes some financially but it's according to her means, and in her case it leaves her enough funds to travel from time to time or take classes.
For us, it means we can see how she's doing, take her to appointments, make sure she's cared for etc. right here in our home which saves us a lot of worry and travel. And obviously it's very personal but we all get along and having her around is fun and our family unit is stronger for it. She also helps with childcare - it's less necessary as my kids get older and also there are some things she is not as good at (like enforcing rules, and occasionally I worry about cognitive things although that seems to be fading as she gets out more post-acute-lockdown phase of the pandemic.)
Anyways, I hope maybe if that is something that eventually happens you can also take the joy in it. It is a real shock when you learn these realities and very stressful, for sure. It does not always result in misery though.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:49 PM on May 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yes to exploring her ex-spouse's benefits. My mom was divorced from my dad for several years, but they had been married for 18 years before they got divorced. When he died, she received his survivor's benefits, which have provided her enough extra income to not need to collect her own SS benefits just yet, which of course means her payments will be higher when she does start.
While $1700/mo is a hard amount of money to live on, it's not impossible, and there are ways she could plan ahead to be able to both supplement that amount and also survive comfortably on it. So, if you know that's going to be firm-ish at some point down the road, I would start looking now for ways she could decrease her monthly cost of living and begin getting accustomed to a different quality of life. Some examples include:
1) Food costs: Most communities have a few local food pantries and food box programs for people of limited means. She (and you) should learn about what these are and begin getting on a schedule where she picks up her monthly/bi-weekly box from the local org. These tend to be high quality foods, but you have to be able to cook with them. If she's not in the habit of cooking at home and making the most of low-cost ingredients, now is a great time to start that habit. She'll reduce her current spend on food/dining, which means a little more savings, and she'll be prepared to handle a box that has a bunch of cauliflower, eggs, chicken, beans, etc. so that she can feed herself affordably down the line. Local social service orgs will have info on these, and local newspapers/events listings typically share them in the community calendars. If this feels too extreme as a starting point, simply shopping at more affordable grocery stores (Aldi, Grocery Outlet, etc.) and getting acclimated to more affordable food and home cooking (bananas, rice, beans, more veggies, less meat, etc.) are a great way to begin.
2) Car/travel costs: Is your mom paying a car payment, lots of gas $$, insurance? These are all costs that can be decreased with significantly less travel, depending on the community she lives in. Could she trade a newer car for an old one with no payments? Could she start walking, taking the bus, commuting with a colleague, working from home? Can she limit her need to have a vehicle so that she can get by without one altogether? The feasibility of this depends on the community she is in, and I am keenly aware that cars often represent independence, but it's worth consideration for now and also for later if she might move to a new location. How could you optimize in this area?
3) Part time work: If your mom can't work her presumably full time job any more as she ages and her health deteriorates, are there ways she can put her skills to use in part time, online or at home jobs? If she's bringing in 40-60k, I'm assuming she has some professional skills that could translate into online work that is more flexible and would represent an additional income stream. Online test grading, customer support, medical billing, editing, etc? If she's not using a computer regularly now, could she work on those skills a little bit to prepare herself for taking one of these kinds of WFH roles later? If not computer work, what about babysitting or dog-sitting (since she already has dogs)? Even an extra $40/day to watch a neighbor's dog (check out Wag, Rover, etc.) but also posting cards up in the community will add up over time. And she might even enjoy something like this!
4) What is your mom currently spending money on? If you're trying to dial back her budget to prepare her for leaner times, you need to have some real talk and investigation into her current expenses. There are lots of ways to swap out costly expenditures for more affordable ones, but it's going to be a process that takes some exploration and acclimation. Is she buying clothes all the time? She might need to become a thrift/garage sale queen instead. Does she donate to causes she cares about? Amazing. Maybe she needs to volunteer in person locally for those causes instead of send money. Does she like to go to events that are costly? Or travel? Time to get really interested in what's happening locally. Are her medical costs extreme? Probably worth talking with some elder health advocates to figure out how to optimize her prescriptions and health plans to provide the best coverage for her needs. If it's housing, could you and siblings pool funds to buy a low cost apartment/townhouse where she could live essentially rent/mortgage free and you would all be building equity?
It's going to be a bit uncomfortable for her to adjust her life to fit within her future means, but starting slowly and developing some awareness of the options that are out there, and then embracing those things as habits, may make it a bit easier to ease into. You'll have to talk about these things openly and do everything you can to remove the shame/stigma that may accompany the changes (and probably contributes to the anxiety she experiences now (which sounds like it leads to avoidance)). It's okay to live on less, and she can have a good quality of life! She's lucky to have a supportive family to help her, and just in case you need to hear it -- you don't have to do everything, and you certainly don't have to do it all once. Remember to put your oxygen mask on first and take the time you need as you go on this journey with her. As the kid of a mom who seems like she's in a somewhat similar boat, I have confidence you guys can find your way through this to a place where you and your mom can enjoy her later years without the stress over finances consuming you. It's great you're getting a start at tackling this already.
posted by luzdeluna at 6:42 AM on May 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
While $1700/mo is a hard amount of money to live on, it's not impossible, and there are ways she could plan ahead to be able to both supplement that amount and also survive comfortably on it. So, if you know that's going to be firm-ish at some point down the road, I would start looking now for ways she could decrease her monthly cost of living and begin getting accustomed to a different quality of life. Some examples include:
1) Food costs: Most communities have a few local food pantries and food box programs for people of limited means. She (and you) should learn about what these are and begin getting on a schedule where she picks up her monthly/bi-weekly box from the local org. These tend to be high quality foods, but you have to be able to cook with them. If she's not in the habit of cooking at home and making the most of low-cost ingredients, now is a great time to start that habit. She'll reduce her current spend on food/dining, which means a little more savings, and she'll be prepared to handle a box that has a bunch of cauliflower, eggs, chicken, beans, etc. so that she can feed herself affordably down the line. Local social service orgs will have info on these, and local newspapers/events listings typically share them in the community calendars. If this feels too extreme as a starting point, simply shopping at more affordable grocery stores (Aldi, Grocery Outlet, etc.) and getting acclimated to more affordable food and home cooking (bananas, rice, beans, more veggies, less meat, etc.) are a great way to begin.
2) Car/travel costs: Is your mom paying a car payment, lots of gas $$, insurance? These are all costs that can be decreased with significantly less travel, depending on the community she lives in. Could she trade a newer car for an old one with no payments? Could she start walking, taking the bus, commuting with a colleague, working from home? Can she limit her need to have a vehicle so that she can get by without one altogether? The feasibility of this depends on the community she is in, and I am keenly aware that cars often represent independence, but it's worth consideration for now and also for later if she might move to a new location. How could you optimize in this area?
3) Part time work: If your mom can't work her presumably full time job any more as she ages and her health deteriorates, are there ways she can put her skills to use in part time, online or at home jobs? If she's bringing in 40-60k, I'm assuming she has some professional skills that could translate into online work that is more flexible and would represent an additional income stream. Online test grading, customer support, medical billing, editing, etc? If she's not using a computer regularly now, could she work on those skills a little bit to prepare herself for taking one of these kinds of WFH roles later? If not computer work, what about babysitting or dog-sitting (since she already has dogs)? Even an extra $40/day to watch a neighbor's dog (check out Wag, Rover, etc.) but also posting cards up in the community will add up over time. And she might even enjoy something like this!
4) What is your mom currently spending money on? If you're trying to dial back her budget to prepare her for leaner times, you need to have some real talk and investigation into her current expenses. There are lots of ways to swap out costly expenditures for more affordable ones, but it's going to be a process that takes some exploration and acclimation. Is she buying clothes all the time? She might need to become a thrift/garage sale queen instead. Does she donate to causes she cares about? Amazing. Maybe she needs to volunteer in person locally for those causes instead of send money. Does she like to go to events that are costly? Or travel? Time to get really interested in what's happening locally. Are her medical costs extreme? Probably worth talking with some elder health advocates to figure out how to optimize her prescriptions and health plans to provide the best coverage for her needs. If it's housing, could you and siblings pool funds to buy a low cost apartment/townhouse where she could live essentially rent/mortgage free and you would all be building equity?
It's going to be a bit uncomfortable for her to adjust her life to fit within her future means, but starting slowly and developing some awareness of the options that are out there, and then embracing those things as habits, may make it a bit easier to ease into. You'll have to talk about these things openly and do everything you can to remove the shame/stigma that may accompany the changes (and probably contributes to the anxiety she experiences now (which sounds like it leads to avoidance)). It's okay to live on less, and she can have a good quality of life! She's lucky to have a supportive family to help her, and just in case you need to hear it -- you don't have to do everything, and you certainly don't have to do it all once. Remember to put your oxygen mask on first and take the time you need as you go on this journey with her. As the kid of a mom who seems like she's in a somewhat similar boat, I have confidence you guys can find your way through this to a place where you and your mom can enjoy her later years without the stress over finances consuming you. It's great you're getting a start at tackling this already.
posted by luzdeluna at 6:42 AM on May 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
How much money do you and your siblings have to contribute to her well being monthly? Look into how much her house would actually sell for (and all fees, taxes, etc) and see if you can all buy a condo for her, splitting the monthly cost and building equity so you can sell once she passes away and get some money back. She can even contribute $500 a month in rent and still have over 1k per month for all other expenses, even after she is receiving social security.
At some point you might need to look into a power of attorney if she keeps ignoring her mail and checks and financial statements.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 9:02 AM on May 27, 2022 [3 favorites]
At some point you might need to look into a power of attorney if she keeps ignoring her mail and checks and financial statements.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 9:02 AM on May 27, 2022 [3 favorites]
First, I want to say that it's awesome of you to want to help your mom but also that it's not your responsibility. Yes, I know different cultures have different expectations but this is ultimately your choice. I hope your mom gets on board and together all of you can work this out.
Second, I don't think moving to be near her is the right choice because you would be uprooting your stability to head towards her expensive instability.
Third, if all else fails, she could spend four months living with each of her children on a rotation. I know of a few people who do this and it's not ideal but has its benefits. The dog could be rehomed temporarily or permanently if needed, although a lot of people will allergies will adjust to pets with time.
People have offered more concrete suggestions that are great but those are some points to keep in mind regardless of what you choose. I hope everything works out!
posted by smorgasbord at 7:43 PM on May 27, 2022
Second, I don't think moving to be near her is the right choice because you would be uprooting your stability to head towards her expensive instability.
Third, if all else fails, she could spend four months living with each of her children on a rotation. I know of a few people who do this and it's not ideal but has its benefits. The dog could be rehomed temporarily or permanently if needed, although a lot of people will allergies will adjust to pets with time.
People have offered more concrete suggestions that are great but those are some points to keep in mind regardless of what you choose. I hope everything works out!
posted by smorgasbord at 7:43 PM on May 27, 2022
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posted by LizardBreath at 10:15 AM on May 26, 2022 [3 favorites]