Parenting a difficult young adult, at the end of my rope
May 23, 2022 2:37 AM Subscribe
Are there friendly, welcoming, supportive, useful online resources/groups for parents of young adults who have mental health challenges?
My 20 year old daughter is draining my own mental resources, and I feel so lost and exhausted. She doesn't live at home, but we're in frequent contact, mostly texting or calling several times a day. In a crisis, I'm the person she turns to. It happens often.
She has (and really, always has had) what could be called a difficult personality, particularly toward immediate family. She is outwardly very successful, smart, independent and competent, but she has bad anxieties, behavior veering towards compulsive (particularly organizing and planning), thoughts that at times seem really extreme (eg. fearful hostility towards men) and possibly also obsessive. She can be incredibly abrasive, there's frequent volatility and conflict in her relationships with her dad and sibling (although remarkably, AFAIK really never in her friendships and peer relations). Sometimes I think she's simply abusive or manipulative, at other times I think she's just really confused and doesn't understand people (nor her own needs or reactions, or the effect they have on others). But then again, her friendships seem fine.
I love her, I worry about her constantly, I find it difficult to enjoy her, even when times are good I feel like I'm always bracing myself for a sudden downturn or crisis. I'm often overcome by a mixture of really hard to bear emotions such as fear, guilt, shame, grief, anger, regret, powerlessness, resentment and loneliness. And just the immense weight of the thought that one way or another, I'll probably be dealing with this for the rest of my life. And that there's a good chance she will never be happy or content.
I'm also forever stuck playing the role of interpreter/referee between her and her dad (we're divorced) and to a lesser extent her and her sibling. Her dad is... not helpful. He's a good guy but just a little, how to put it, obtuse? And generally has a knee jerk dismissive reaction towards people being 'difficult'. And I get it, our daughter is often really unreasonable. But in return, he's comfortable doing absolutely zero emotional labor, which means that I have always done all of it (obviously with very limited success). And the truth is, I just don't think he likes spending time with her, and I can't exactly blame him either, but then it's me who gets to face all her questions like 'why doesn't dad make any effort to hang out with me'. (Well, possibly because you called him a disgusting moron just last week?) He also low key blames me for the way our daughter turned out, although we've managed to avoid that subject now for years. Luckily, since it really, really hurts. It may be true, though.
I've briefly talked to a mental health professional who considered it a possibility that my daughter might be neurodivergent. I sorely blame myself for not doing something about it much earlier, but her teenage years were so tumultuous, and my relationship with her so strained, and my mental resources so limited due to the divorce etc, that, well, I just dropped the ball. I did read about it at the time, and to some extent, she fits the description to a T, but then other common symptoms on the diagnostic lists don't match at all. And as a teen, she was really not open to any kind of input regarding what might be 'wrong' with her anyway, so yeah, I bungled it. Spent sleepless nights googling all kinds of diagnoses, didn't do anything about it, didn't know how, and didn't have the strength to fully face it, either. I guess I just hoped I was being too dramatic and it would all turn out to be teenage behavior and she'd grow out of the worst of it... Hence, massive guilt now.
Also, please don't suggest any diagnoses if you can avoid it, I've probably considered them all anyway, and since she's living independently and not in any immediate danger I can't force her to see a professional at the moment (I'm working on getting her to see one though, at least just to get help with the panic attacks).
I also know I'm helicoptering, I know I'm not supposed to, there should be boundaries, I should put on my own oxygen mask first, etc... But I really feel like if I disengage in even a minor way, she may do irreparable damage to her relationship with her dad and sibling, and I also really worry about her mental well being.
I'm taking steps to see a therapist myself (and have encouraged her younger sibling to consider seeing one, too). But I'd also really like to just feel a little less alone in this. Is there something online for/by other parents struggling with something similar? (Preferably not on facebook.) Googling turns up pretty useless and questionable articles and reddit groups, stuff like 'my adult child is disrespectful' which is not the issue, or, even worse, really obviously shitty parents complaining about the life choices of their grown up kids. Or then at the other extreme, resources geared for people whose offspring are struggling with real, diagnosed severe mental illnesses or substance abuse. I also feel very iffy about resources or groups specifically for the loved ones of people on the spectrum, since atm it's unconfirmed and just a hypothesis.
Sorry, I wanted to post a pithy question and it became a ramble. I'd be very thankful for any suggestions.
My 20 year old daughter is draining my own mental resources, and I feel so lost and exhausted. She doesn't live at home, but we're in frequent contact, mostly texting or calling several times a day. In a crisis, I'm the person she turns to. It happens often.
She has (and really, always has had) what could be called a difficult personality, particularly toward immediate family. She is outwardly very successful, smart, independent and competent, but she has bad anxieties, behavior veering towards compulsive (particularly organizing and planning), thoughts that at times seem really extreme (eg. fearful hostility towards men) and possibly also obsessive. She can be incredibly abrasive, there's frequent volatility and conflict in her relationships with her dad and sibling (although remarkably, AFAIK really never in her friendships and peer relations). Sometimes I think she's simply abusive or manipulative, at other times I think she's just really confused and doesn't understand people (nor her own needs or reactions, or the effect they have on others). But then again, her friendships seem fine.
I love her, I worry about her constantly, I find it difficult to enjoy her, even when times are good I feel like I'm always bracing myself for a sudden downturn or crisis. I'm often overcome by a mixture of really hard to bear emotions such as fear, guilt, shame, grief, anger, regret, powerlessness, resentment and loneliness. And just the immense weight of the thought that one way or another, I'll probably be dealing with this for the rest of my life. And that there's a good chance she will never be happy or content.
I'm also forever stuck playing the role of interpreter/referee between her and her dad (we're divorced) and to a lesser extent her and her sibling. Her dad is... not helpful. He's a good guy but just a little, how to put it, obtuse? And generally has a knee jerk dismissive reaction towards people being 'difficult'. And I get it, our daughter is often really unreasonable. But in return, he's comfortable doing absolutely zero emotional labor, which means that I have always done all of it (obviously with very limited success). And the truth is, I just don't think he likes spending time with her, and I can't exactly blame him either, but then it's me who gets to face all her questions like 'why doesn't dad make any effort to hang out with me'. (Well, possibly because you called him a disgusting moron just last week?) He also low key blames me for the way our daughter turned out, although we've managed to avoid that subject now for years. Luckily, since it really, really hurts. It may be true, though.
I've briefly talked to a mental health professional who considered it a possibility that my daughter might be neurodivergent. I sorely blame myself for not doing something about it much earlier, but her teenage years were so tumultuous, and my relationship with her so strained, and my mental resources so limited due to the divorce etc, that, well, I just dropped the ball. I did read about it at the time, and to some extent, she fits the description to a T, but then other common symptoms on the diagnostic lists don't match at all. And as a teen, she was really not open to any kind of input regarding what might be 'wrong' with her anyway, so yeah, I bungled it. Spent sleepless nights googling all kinds of diagnoses, didn't do anything about it, didn't know how, and didn't have the strength to fully face it, either. I guess I just hoped I was being too dramatic and it would all turn out to be teenage behavior and she'd grow out of the worst of it... Hence, massive guilt now.
Also, please don't suggest any diagnoses if you can avoid it, I've probably considered them all anyway, and since she's living independently and not in any immediate danger I can't force her to see a professional at the moment (I'm working on getting her to see one though, at least just to get help with the panic attacks).
I also know I'm helicoptering, I know I'm not supposed to, there should be boundaries, I should put on my own oxygen mask first, etc... But I really feel like if I disengage in even a minor way, she may do irreparable damage to her relationship with her dad and sibling, and I also really worry about her mental well being.
I'm taking steps to see a therapist myself (and have encouraged her younger sibling to consider seeing one, too). But I'd also really like to just feel a little less alone in this. Is there something online for/by other parents struggling with something similar? (Preferably not on facebook.) Googling turns up pretty useless and questionable articles and reddit groups, stuff like 'my adult child is disrespectful' which is not the issue, or, even worse, really obviously shitty parents complaining about the life choices of their grown up kids. Or then at the other extreme, resources geared for people whose offspring are struggling with real, diagnosed severe mental illnesses or substance abuse. I also feel very iffy about resources or groups specifically for the loved ones of people on the spectrum, since atm it's unconfirmed and just a hypothesis.
Sorry, I wanted to post a pithy question and it became a ramble. I'd be very thankful for any suggestions.
Please let her, her father and her sibling (unless sibling is significantly younger) manage their relationships.
Adults, even those bound by biology or the law don't have to be close to each other and some people simply would never have a close relationship left to their own devices.
We all have to deal with the consequences of our actions.
If your daughter really has unaddressed mental health issues she'll have to deal with them at some point or the consequences of not doing so. She is at an age where she may not appreciate that and may still seek a lot of support from you but at the same time she is an adult, living independently. So support as much as you're able to/willing but you can't do it for her nor can you protect her from the consequences of her actions.
If your ex husband is not willing to do emotional labour he has to deal with the consequences of that.
If you want to do anything help your younger child develop strategies of how to deal with difficult people in a way that respects their own needs and boundaries - including their sibling and their father.
posted by koahiatamadl at 3:37 AM on May 23, 2022 [25 favorites]
Adults, even those bound by biology or the law don't have to be close to each other and some people simply would never have a close relationship left to their own devices.
We all have to deal with the consequences of our actions.
If your daughter really has unaddressed mental health issues she'll have to deal with them at some point or the consequences of not doing so. She is at an age where she may not appreciate that and may still seek a lot of support from you but at the same time she is an adult, living independently. So support as much as you're able to/willing but you can't do it for her nor can you protect her from the consequences of her actions.
If your ex husband is not willing to do emotional labour he has to deal with the consequences of that.
If you want to do anything help your younger child develop strategies of how to deal with difficult people in a way that respects their own needs and boundaries - including their sibling and their father.
posted by koahiatamadl at 3:37 AM on May 23, 2022 [25 favorites]
I'm hearing a lot of anxiety in this from you, though of course I am not qualified to diagnose. I suggest that you consult someone who is qualified to.
posted by humbug at 4:27 AM on May 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by humbug at 4:27 AM on May 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
NAMI Family Support Groups for you. Otherwise, I would encourage your daughter to cut her father and sibling out of her life and enjoy what otherwise sounds like a pretty great life.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:27 AM on May 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 4:27 AM on May 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
help your younger child develop strategies of how to deal with difficult people in a way that respects their own needs and boundaries - including their sibling and their father.
Came to say this. My childhood and teenage years were dominated and shaped by the nightmare of my elder sibling's myriad issues. My sibling treated me terribly. Her issues were always an excuse for her awful behavior. I was lost, angry, miserable, scared and lonely. Please try to make space for your younger child even as you try to cope with your child that is obviously suffering.
Also, my parents have/had a very similar dynamic with my sibling. In my opinion, you are helicoptering as you said. Please try to take care of yourself and allow yourself to trust your daughter to learn and grow on her own.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 4:54 AM on May 23, 2022 [9 favorites]
Came to say this. My childhood and teenage years were dominated and shaped by the nightmare of my elder sibling's myriad issues. My sibling treated me terribly. Her issues were always an excuse for her awful behavior. I was lost, angry, miserable, scared and lonely. Please try to make space for your younger child even as you try to cope with your child that is obviously suffering.
Also, my parents have/had a very similar dynamic with my sibling. In my opinion, you are helicoptering as you said. Please try to take care of yourself and allow yourself to trust your daughter to learn and grow on her own.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 4:54 AM on May 23, 2022 [9 favorites]
This relationship sounds like it has a few of the traits of a codependent relationship. Part of you recognizes that her life needs to be her own now, come what may. Unfortunately, I do not have any online resources to suggest, but I wonder if a group therapy setting might give you a sense of community in dealing with this.
posted by cubeb at 5:38 AM on May 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by cubeb at 5:38 AM on May 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
It might help to suggest therapy as more of a gym than a hospital. She doesn't need to fix something but to strengthen what she has, and like a gym, it likely won't succeed if you go four times and call it done. Young people can carry so much, they have no idea how easy life can be when you learn to unpack all that shit and leave it behind. I think pushing for therapy can cause more resistance and it would help to have a good therapist yourself and share how the experience is helping you.
posted by InkaLomax at 5:52 AM on May 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by InkaLomax at 5:52 AM on May 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
Hmm. If peer, school and work seem fine, I don’t think neurodivergence (ie autism) would be what I suspect. But at the end of the day, unless she has insight into her difficulties and wants to fix it, there’s not much you can do. And there seems to be a BIG component of family systems here.
I think you need some support around creating healthy boundaries with her, as well as some work on reframing what your goals are as a parent of an adult.
posted by haptic_avenger at 5:54 AM on May 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think you need some support around creating healthy boundaries with her, as well as some work on reframing what your goals are as a parent of an adult.
posted by haptic_avenger at 5:54 AM on May 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
This sounds really hard, and I'm sorry.
I want to reiterate that you are not responsible for her relationships with other people. She may in fact do irreparable harm to her relationships with others, regardless of anything you do or don't do, and that will not be your fault. I think you especially need to pull back from managing her relationship with her father; that's entirely for the two of them to deal with. Her younger sibling, yes, probably needs some of the support and energy you're pouring into the elder sibling, especially if she's much younger. So it might be worth pushing a bit harder on getting everyone into therapy.
A support group for you in addition to therapy sounds like a really good idea. I found a support group for family members of people with severe mental illnesses to be a critical part of learning to set my own boundaries in my own family situation. I don't know exactly what the equivalent is for you but NAMI sounds like a reasonable place to start.
posted by Stacey at 5:57 AM on May 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
I want to reiterate that you are not responsible for her relationships with other people. She may in fact do irreparable harm to her relationships with others, regardless of anything you do or don't do, and that will not be your fault. I think you especially need to pull back from managing her relationship with her father; that's entirely for the two of them to deal with. Her younger sibling, yes, probably needs some of the support and energy you're pouring into the elder sibling, especially if she's much younger. So it might be worth pushing a bit harder on getting everyone into therapy.
A support group for you in addition to therapy sounds like a really good idea. I found a support group for family members of people with severe mental illnesses to be a critical part of learning to set my own boundaries in my own family situation. I don't know exactly what the equivalent is for you but NAMI sounds like a reasonable place to start.
posted by Stacey at 5:57 AM on May 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
Also F your ex for blaming you. I hope you know he’s a total unmentionable.
posted by haptic_avenger at 5:58 AM on May 23, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by haptic_avenger at 5:58 AM on May 23, 2022 [15 favorites]
Ok I really apologize for the serial posting but I keep on seeing more in your post. Please, please drop the guilt about what you did or did not do during childhood. Despite what you hear “them” say, there actually are not magic bullet treatments or therapies that fix kids where the window closes shut forever by a certain age. Please drop that guilt, you do not need it.
posted by haptic_avenger at 6:02 AM on May 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by haptic_avenger at 6:02 AM on May 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
I couldn’t figure out from your post whether you have discussed therapy with your daughter. Whether and how to suggest therapy is a difficult question and I can’t speak to that, but IF the topic of therapy comes up and your daughter seems open to it, you can help in 2 ways:
- By offering to pay for therapy (if you’re financially able)
- By offering to do the legwork to find a therapist, which is often quite difficult
Shortly after I turned 18 I was struggling with some mental health issues — not as severe as your daughter, but I was in a bad place. I confided in my parents and they offered to pay for any therapy I pursued, which really lifted a weight off my shoulders. I could have maybe technically afforded it myself but at that point in my life the costs of therapy seemed impossibly huge and made me resist going — having my parents offer to pay lifted a barrier and I’m very grateful.
posted by mekily at 6:11 AM on May 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
- By offering to pay for therapy (if you’re financially able)
- By offering to do the legwork to find a therapist, which is often quite difficult
Shortly after I turned 18 I was struggling with some mental health issues — not as severe as your daughter, but I was in a bad place. I confided in my parents and they offered to pay for any therapy I pursued, which really lifted a weight off my shoulders. I could have maybe technically afforded it myself but at that point in my life the costs of therapy seemed impossibly huge and made me resist going — having my parents offer to pay lifted a barrier and I’m very grateful.
posted by mekily at 6:11 AM on May 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
My spouse is a difficult, now approaching middle aged, adult. We know a medical cause - mast cell activation syndrome, or MCAS - which doesn't really make bearing it all that much easier. But bad behavior coincides with when treatment isn't going as well as other times, and frankly looks a lot like borderline personality disorder and a host of other mental health issues.
What I'm coming around to is that the right approach, for me, is probably somewhere between your approach and your ex-husband's approach.
Like a certain amount of "I will always love you" may be appropriate. But boundaries are also appropriate.
Here's one way that could look. Call me a disgusting moron? The conversation is done for now, and I won't apologize or try to make you feel better. But I will talk to you again tomorrow, or next week, or whatever.
You're having another crisis that's not a real crisis, or is one that's self-inflicted and I can't fix? That must be difficult for you. I can hear about it for a bit. If you shoot down all my suggestions, I wish you the best in moving forward but we're done talking about it.
There's a subreddit for those who have loved ones with BPD. It's pretty much slanted heavily in favor of leaving the relationship, so I won't give it a full throated endorsement because that's not what you're looking for, but there's some also some stuff there that may be helpful if you want to read it.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:58 AM on May 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
What I'm coming around to is that the right approach, for me, is probably somewhere between your approach and your ex-husband's approach.
Like a certain amount of "I will always love you" may be appropriate. But boundaries are also appropriate.
Here's one way that could look. Call me a disgusting moron? The conversation is done for now, and I won't apologize or try to make you feel better. But I will talk to you again tomorrow, or next week, or whatever.
You're having another crisis that's not a real crisis, or is one that's self-inflicted and I can't fix? That must be difficult for you. I can hear about it for a bit. If you shoot down all my suggestions, I wish you the best in moving forward but we're done talking about it.
There's a subreddit for those who have loved ones with BPD. It's pretty much slanted heavily in favor of leaving the relationship, so I won't give it a full throated endorsement because that's not what you're looking for, but there's some also some stuff there that may be helpful if you want to read it.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:58 AM on May 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
Neurodivergent is a good, diplomatic, forward-looking way to approach this situation. In part because I think that can help you understand that your urge to claim some responsibility for this is something that you can let go of. You should let go of it--you've noted in your text above that you can meaure the impact of the interventions you've tried to stage and that success is "limited." That's because your daughter is a person--a whole person, with her own agency and self-conception--and at 20 it's time to yield to that.
he's comfortable doing absolutely zero emotional labor, which means that I have always done all of it (obviously with very limited success)
Leaving behind what this meant for your colelctive relationships in the past, this may be a time to consider learning from his approach. Your daughter is now in the position to manage her own emotional labor that results from her ways of being. If relationships strain and fray, you aren't keping them together as a third party intervening--you're potsponing these relationships settling into what they can be with the least emotional labor on anyone's part.
I'm saying this as a parent of a difficult (now almost 23 year old) child. She is the middle of three, and from my perspective (I arrived as an eventual step parent when she was about 7) her personality was firmly in place at that age. There were attempts by her biological parents over hte years to diagnose, to manage, to medicate, to classify and reclassify, but ultimately this is simply who she is. I don't want to sound like I'm patting myself on the back for this, but I was one of the few adults in her life that didn't do those things. I called her out when I felt that needed to happen and otherwise accpeted her difficulties. As a consequence, she's closer to me than with any of her family.
It is not easy, it was not easy, but I love her. She is a compulsive liar. Getting caught in obvious lies make her respond with bigger lies. She is reactive. She is not gentle with others' feelings when she knows that she can stir the pot to create a scene. Most harmfully, she learned very young that she can create a very big scene with her in the center of it by flirting with situtations that cause and necessitate alarm. I have taken her to the emergency room an untold number of times over the years because she said she was having suicidal thoughts. I have picked her up an untold number of times from stores and police and venues for getting caught shoplifting or sneaking into restricted areas or some other trespass that seems so ham-fisted as to have been intended only to get her caught. She's also brilliantly smart and capable of extreme acts of compassion and generosity. There are windows in which her humor shines through and she allows herself to laugh unfettered by the airs she usually puts on.
She's also not a minor. She can and does ask for help, and I help when I can. I help less over time, and instead make myself available as a human rather than a fixer. A lot of telephone calls and text messages these days end with me saying something to the effect of, 'I'm sorry to hear that, how are you feeling?' rather than 'What can I do to help solve this problem for you.' I have let her know that I intend to say 'no' to her requests when they fall outside the scope of my role (someone trustworthy, someone capable of providing emergency help) and get into participating in her diffilcuty (I am not a go-between or peacemaker with the other members of our family, I am not a halfway house for her extended circle of friends). And, yes, therapy has been a good resource for me. I'm glad you're taking steps to get into therapy, because this may well be your biggest solution here. Learning how to set better boundaries for yourself and the less time you spend tending your daughter's boundaries... well, I won't make a judgment about how that may make you feel, but it is a move in a direction that is worth exploring. Focusing on doing positive, beneficial things for yourself is often recommended when parents of adult children are feeling stressed about their kids' being unavoidable sources of stress.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 7:14 AM on May 23, 2022 [17 favorites]
he's comfortable doing absolutely zero emotional labor, which means that I have always done all of it (obviously with very limited success)
Leaving behind what this meant for your colelctive relationships in the past, this may be a time to consider learning from his approach. Your daughter is now in the position to manage her own emotional labor that results from her ways of being. If relationships strain and fray, you aren't keping them together as a third party intervening--you're potsponing these relationships settling into what they can be with the least emotional labor on anyone's part.
I'm saying this as a parent of a difficult (now almost 23 year old) child. She is the middle of three, and from my perspective (I arrived as an eventual step parent when she was about 7) her personality was firmly in place at that age. There were attempts by her biological parents over hte years to diagnose, to manage, to medicate, to classify and reclassify, but ultimately this is simply who she is. I don't want to sound like I'm patting myself on the back for this, but I was one of the few adults in her life that didn't do those things. I called her out when I felt that needed to happen and otherwise accpeted her difficulties. As a consequence, she's closer to me than with any of her family.
It is not easy, it was not easy, but I love her. She is a compulsive liar. Getting caught in obvious lies make her respond with bigger lies. She is reactive. She is not gentle with others' feelings when she knows that she can stir the pot to create a scene. Most harmfully, she learned very young that she can create a very big scene with her in the center of it by flirting with situtations that cause and necessitate alarm. I have taken her to the emergency room an untold number of times over the years because she said she was having suicidal thoughts. I have picked her up an untold number of times from stores and police and venues for getting caught shoplifting or sneaking into restricted areas or some other trespass that seems so ham-fisted as to have been intended only to get her caught. She's also brilliantly smart and capable of extreme acts of compassion and generosity. There are windows in which her humor shines through and she allows herself to laugh unfettered by the airs she usually puts on.
She's also not a minor. She can and does ask for help, and I help when I can. I help less over time, and instead make myself available as a human rather than a fixer. A lot of telephone calls and text messages these days end with me saying something to the effect of, 'I'm sorry to hear that, how are you feeling?' rather than 'What can I do to help solve this problem for you.' I have let her know that I intend to say 'no' to her requests when they fall outside the scope of my role (someone trustworthy, someone capable of providing emergency help) and get into participating in her diffilcuty (I am not a go-between or peacemaker with the other members of our family, I am not a halfway house for her extended circle of friends). And, yes, therapy has been a good resource for me. I'm glad you're taking steps to get into therapy, because this may well be your biggest solution here. Learning how to set better boundaries for yourself and the less time you spend tending your daughter's boundaries... well, I won't make a judgment about how that may make you feel, but it is a move in a direction that is worth exploring. Focusing on doing positive, beneficial things for yourself is often recommended when parents of adult children are feeling stressed about their kids' being unavoidable sources of stress.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 7:14 AM on May 23, 2022 [17 favorites]
Your daughter is "successful, smart, independent and competent," and has a group of friends she gets along with well?
What more do you want of an adult child? You've given a wall of text complaining about how little you like her and how unpleasant she is, and as a middle-aged version of your daughter, I found it hard to read. I was smart and successful and accomplished as a person, always had friends, a happy marriage, my parents' only grandchild, but my parents just didn't like me, as a kid or as an adult, and that caused a lot of damage in my life, first from the deep insecurity that if my parents didn't love me maybe that meant I was unlovable (and the efforts I went to at my own expense to try and make them), and then from the absurdly high standards they transmitted to me for what should be expected in people.
Look, the only non-optional love is the love a parent is supposed to hold for a child. You brought her into this world. She didn't ask to be born. She doesn't have to like you or your ex or your other kid. But you are supposed to find something to love in her. It's sounds like she has plenty of lovable traits to enjoy. It's hard to read how little you like a person who sounds like she's been very successful at the basic tasks of becoming a grown human. She doesn't get along with her dad and sibling? That's true of lots of people -- you are divorced from her dad, so obviously you two didn't get along; why should she do any better with him?
You don't have to fix her or her relationships. She's fine. She's not perfect, but she's fine. Now maybe just focus on loving her and finding things to love in her, and talking about those instead of her dad. If you can't -- and maybe you can't -- then it's time for some therapy to figure how to put down all the pathologizing and anger at her for her not being perfect.
posted by shadygrove at 7:29 AM on May 23, 2022 [33 favorites]
What more do you want of an adult child? You've given a wall of text complaining about how little you like her and how unpleasant she is, and as a middle-aged version of your daughter, I found it hard to read. I was smart and successful and accomplished as a person, always had friends, a happy marriage, my parents' only grandchild, but my parents just didn't like me, as a kid or as an adult, and that caused a lot of damage in my life, first from the deep insecurity that if my parents didn't love me maybe that meant I was unlovable (and the efforts I went to at my own expense to try and make them), and then from the absurdly high standards they transmitted to me for what should be expected in people.
Look, the only non-optional love is the love a parent is supposed to hold for a child. You brought her into this world. She didn't ask to be born. She doesn't have to like you or your ex or your other kid. But you are supposed to find something to love in her. It's sounds like she has plenty of lovable traits to enjoy. It's hard to read how little you like a person who sounds like she's been very successful at the basic tasks of becoming a grown human. She doesn't get along with her dad and sibling? That's true of lots of people -- you are divorced from her dad, so obviously you two didn't get along; why should she do any better with him?
You don't have to fix her or her relationships. She's fine. She's not perfect, but she's fine. Now maybe just focus on loving her and finding things to love in her, and talking about those instead of her dad. If you can't -- and maybe you can't -- then it's time for some therapy to figure how to put down all the pathologizing and anger at her for her not being perfect.
posted by shadygrove at 7:29 AM on May 23, 2022 [33 favorites]
Unless you genuinely think that said damage is going to be physical, let her do that irreparable* damage in her relationships. You shouldn't be playing referee between her and her dad--he needs to feel the consequences of his own actions. (Her too, although I'm more sympathetic to her because she's barely an adult and he was the parent!)
* With independence and time, it's likely that the relationship will fall back into place. But right now it's not working and it's not your place to keep a bad thing going.
posted by kingdead at 7:44 AM on May 23, 2022 [8 favorites]
* With independence and time, it's likely that the relationship will fall back into place. But right now it's not working and it's not your place to keep a bad thing going.
posted by kingdead at 7:44 AM on May 23, 2022 [8 favorites]
As a practical strategy, I’d recommend not answering right away when she calls or texts, but getting back to her no more than once every other day at a regular time that *you* choose. You can tell her that you aren’t going to be as immediately available from now on, but you will always get back to her within a few days. This will help her learn to stabilize herself - or seek out more appropriate resources than you - and give you time and space. Plus it means you’ll be talking to her outside of crises and might get to see some of the better parts of her.
posted by congen at 8:29 AM on May 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by congen at 8:29 AM on May 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
I know a friend's relative pretty well by now. Until middle age, they could really be triggered into intense rage and abrasiveness by anything unexpected, frustrating or contra their feelings about how the world should work. These could be pretty intense and upsetting episodes which were very difficult for their parents. I know their parents worried a lot the way you worry - is there a treatable condition in the background, should more have been done in adolescence, what do you do with someone who can't manage part of their life and gets frighteningly angry when this becomes apparent?
I want to add that this person is actually a very compassionate, kind person who is willing to do all kinds of boring and annoying crap to help others - the kind of stuff that a lot of people won't do. The rages and upsets don't negate them as a person.
It was scary for their family because the family saw genuine problems occurring and could not do anything to help without triggering these episodes, and the episodes were ugly enough that it hurt, despite the underlying goodness of the child.
My feeling, based on long-time knowledge of this situation, is that you should withdraw when the ugly stuff happens. Let your daughter manage her relationships, let your daughter manage her problems. If she's able to keep a roof over her head and maintain friends, you don't really need to worry so much. Concentrate on having good interactions with your daughter. It can't be easy for her if she has any self-insight at all; it's no fun knowing that you get into these ugly confrontations, even if you think you're right to, eg, call your dad a "moron".
My friend's relative doesn't really "control" these episodes; they are overwhelming when they occur. It's not something that they "do" to their family; it's more like if they had chronic gastro problems. No one would have fun if they had uncontrollable, severe gastro episodes but also no one would put a moral lens on it.
What can you do or talk about that will make you both happy? What can you do to avoid conflict? It's okay to be conflict avoidant here, IMO - can you make your relationship with your daughter more about what you do enjoy than about what you don't? If you can experience more of the good aspects of your relationship, you're both going to be much happier.
Also, my friend's relative did eventually move past these episodes until they are rare and less intense now. They have not had an easy life, it's true. But I think the goal has to be focusing on the good - the good that they've done, the good times in relationships with their family. I don't think this has always been fun for everyone concerned, but focusing on the family relationship makes things much better than focusing on the outbursts.
posted by Frowner at 8:38 AM on May 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
I want to add that this person is actually a very compassionate, kind person who is willing to do all kinds of boring and annoying crap to help others - the kind of stuff that a lot of people won't do. The rages and upsets don't negate them as a person.
It was scary for their family because the family saw genuine problems occurring and could not do anything to help without triggering these episodes, and the episodes were ugly enough that it hurt, despite the underlying goodness of the child.
My feeling, based on long-time knowledge of this situation, is that you should withdraw when the ugly stuff happens. Let your daughter manage her relationships, let your daughter manage her problems. If she's able to keep a roof over her head and maintain friends, you don't really need to worry so much. Concentrate on having good interactions with your daughter. It can't be easy for her if she has any self-insight at all; it's no fun knowing that you get into these ugly confrontations, even if you think you're right to, eg, call your dad a "moron".
My friend's relative doesn't really "control" these episodes; they are overwhelming when they occur. It's not something that they "do" to their family; it's more like if they had chronic gastro problems. No one would have fun if they had uncontrollable, severe gastro episodes but also no one would put a moral lens on it.
What can you do or talk about that will make you both happy? What can you do to avoid conflict? It's okay to be conflict avoidant here, IMO - can you make your relationship with your daughter more about what you do enjoy than about what you don't? If you can experience more of the good aspects of your relationship, you're both going to be much happier.
Also, my friend's relative did eventually move past these episodes until they are rare and less intense now. They have not had an easy life, it's true. But I think the goal has to be focusing on the good - the good that they've done, the good times in relationships with their family. I don't think this has always been fun for everyone concerned, but focusing on the family relationship makes things much better than focusing on the outbursts.
posted by Frowner at 8:38 AM on May 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
Wowww this post sounds like my life exactly, except for a few details. My kid is much younger - used to be 12 at the time of the difficulties - but my post-divorce, shared-custody family had the same dynamic of:
- kid being abrasive
- me being the understanding parent who helped kid cope with difficult feelings
- leading to kid being abrasive at dad much more frequently
- dad being a good parent in general but obtuse, unwilling to do emotional labor, and explicitly blaming me for the way kid was behaving
- me feeling responsible for managing all of kid's relationships including kid's relationship with dad, because I so desperately wanted them to get along and was doing 95% of the work to make us all a happy post-divorce family
Luckily, I have been in therapy continuously since the divorce and my therapist, who is also an MFT in addition to providing individual therapy, really gets this sort of systemic family issue and has helped me navigate it successfully. In my case my kid was much younger so my sense of responsibility for kid's relationship with dad was a little more appropriate? But even in my case, what ultimately resolved the issue was to tell my ex that I was fucking done trying to help manage their relationship, that he is well on his way to losing his kid forever because he refuses to treat relationship issues seriously, and good fucking luck to him. (Note: I didn't *actually* butt out completely. But I yelled it loud enough to scare the birds off of trees! After a few weeks when my ex was actually working to fix things with kid in his own way, I went back to my usual level of emotional labor helping kid see how things were slowly becoming different with dad, and so on.)
Here's what helped me specifically in my therapy:
1. Supportive therapy to replenish my emotional resources. I can't pour emotional energy into solving my family issues when my own cup is empty. My therapist's support is a direct cup-filler, and therapy also helps me build up & lean on other relationships so that I'm not depending on just my therapist for personal support. This is far and away the most important aspect of how my family issues have been resolved.
2. Paradoxically, #1 helps me easily get past unfairnesses towards me and focus on the actual goals/bottomline. Like, sure, it's textbook sexism/ a toxic pattern/ plain old unfair that I do all the emotional labor while my ex husband coasts along obliviously. But the injustice of this unfair division of emotional labor doesn't rankle or leave me seething and angry when my own emotional cup runneth over. When I had no support and when my emotional resources were depleted, every insult or unfairness felt like a huge fucking deal that I spent endless hours ruminating over, gnashing my teeth and planning my strategies to fix it. It was a waste of my time and energy, though. In my OTHER relationships, especially new ones, I will absolutely try to make the balance of emotional labor more even from the get go. But this relationship is what it is. My kid's dad is who he is. I won't expend any energy trying to change him or even trying to change our dynamic, because that's not what's important right now. That same energy could help my kid's relationship with dad become better. That's the bottomline I can now focus on, thanks to #1.
3. Also paradoxically, I do best when I'm leaning heavily into my own instinctive knowledge and "feel" for how to handle my ex husband, even if that goes against what Instagram influencers or self-help gurus or even certain types of textbooks might advise. The caveat is that I usually run my thoughts past my therapist to make sure I'm not falling into bad patterns or blind spots that might hurt me or others. But in general, my expertise in how to handle my ex is hard won, damn it, and I refuse to let internet influencers devalue my knowledge in favor of their generic idealized script for how the situation ~ought~ to go. So, for example, I might intentionally go on a charm offensive to win co-operation.... even in a situation that the internet might react to with omg she's a narcissist! I should be grey rocking! I should be limiting contact! or whatever. Or I might strategically choose to blow up at my ex.... even in a situation where internet 'experts' might advise me to remain calm but firm! take the high road! contain my emotions so as to not give him ammunition!, or whatever. (I'm so so so glad that my therapist both understands and supports this type of maneuvering within my particular family system! My previous therapist whom I saw for less than a year was much more textbooky. But my current therapist's training as an MFT has been a godsend for me because with that guidance, I can allow myself to veer away from what I "should" do and focus on what I know will work.)
4. And finally, therapy gave me the skills to work on my own interactions with my kid (verbal and nonverbal): to make sure that I was holding kid responsible for abrasive behavior (writing notes of apology, reflecting on how kid's abrasiveness makes others feel, building better behavior patterns), and also setting up dad for success in kid's eyes (this doesn't mean putting on a positive spin on whatever dad does, or making excuses for dad's bad behavior - it means humanizing dad in general by making inclusive jokes, pointing out positive ways in which kid is like dad, "teaming" myself with dad so kid stops splitting dad & me, etc). In specific, therapy allowed me to separate myself from my kid's emotions, to maintain my own sense of inner balance even while kid was feeling very strongly a certain way. A parent's adult perspective is precious and must be safeguarded! It helps kids (even adult kids!) a lot when a parent can breathe and remain centered no matter how badly the kid is acting.
This is all very general and not at all the specific tips you were asking for. But I hope my answer illustrates how your situation is so very specific to you, and so the only person who can figure out the specific tips you need is... you! And hopefully you too will have a therapist who is supportive and gives you room to realize how much you are allowed to trust yourself, so that you don't feel quite so lost and alone as you tackle this immense problem.
posted by MiraK at 9:42 AM on May 23, 2022 [9 favorites]
- kid being abrasive
- me being the understanding parent who helped kid cope with difficult feelings
- leading to kid being abrasive at dad much more frequently
- dad being a good parent in general but obtuse, unwilling to do emotional labor, and explicitly blaming me for the way kid was behaving
- me feeling responsible for managing all of kid's relationships including kid's relationship with dad, because I so desperately wanted them to get along and was doing 95% of the work to make us all a happy post-divorce family
Luckily, I have been in therapy continuously since the divorce and my therapist, who is also an MFT in addition to providing individual therapy, really gets this sort of systemic family issue and has helped me navigate it successfully. In my case my kid was much younger so my sense of responsibility for kid's relationship with dad was a little more appropriate? But even in my case, what ultimately resolved the issue was to tell my ex that I was fucking done trying to help manage their relationship, that he is well on his way to losing his kid forever because he refuses to treat relationship issues seriously, and good fucking luck to him. (Note: I didn't *actually* butt out completely. But I yelled it loud enough to scare the birds off of trees! After a few weeks when my ex was actually working to fix things with kid in his own way, I went back to my usual level of emotional labor helping kid see how things were slowly becoming different with dad, and so on.)
Here's what helped me specifically in my therapy:
1. Supportive therapy to replenish my emotional resources. I can't pour emotional energy into solving my family issues when my own cup is empty. My therapist's support is a direct cup-filler, and therapy also helps me build up & lean on other relationships so that I'm not depending on just my therapist for personal support. This is far and away the most important aspect of how my family issues have been resolved.
2. Paradoxically, #1 helps me easily get past unfairnesses towards me and focus on the actual goals/bottomline. Like, sure, it's textbook sexism/ a toxic pattern/ plain old unfair that I do all the emotional labor while my ex husband coasts along obliviously. But the injustice of this unfair division of emotional labor doesn't rankle or leave me seething and angry when my own emotional cup runneth over. When I had no support and when my emotional resources were depleted, every insult or unfairness felt like a huge fucking deal that I spent endless hours ruminating over, gnashing my teeth and planning my strategies to fix it. It was a waste of my time and energy, though. In my OTHER relationships, especially new ones, I will absolutely try to make the balance of emotional labor more even from the get go. But this relationship is what it is. My kid's dad is who he is. I won't expend any energy trying to change him or even trying to change our dynamic, because that's not what's important right now. That same energy could help my kid's relationship with dad become better. That's the bottomline I can now focus on, thanks to #1.
3. Also paradoxically, I do best when I'm leaning heavily into my own instinctive knowledge and "feel" for how to handle my ex husband, even if that goes against what Instagram influencers or self-help gurus or even certain types of textbooks might advise. The caveat is that I usually run my thoughts past my therapist to make sure I'm not falling into bad patterns or blind spots that might hurt me or others. But in general, my expertise in how to handle my ex is hard won, damn it, and I refuse to let internet influencers devalue my knowledge in favor of their generic idealized script for how the situation ~ought~ to go. So, for example, I might intentionally go on a charm offensive to win co-operation.... even in a situation that the internet might react to with omg she's a narcissist! I should be grey rocking! I should be limiting contact! or whatever. Or I might strategically choose to blow up at my ex.... even in a situation where internet 'experts' might advise me to remain calm but firm! take the high road! contain my emotions so as to not give him ammunition!, or whatever. (I'm so so so glad that my therapist both understands and supports this type of maneuvering within my particular family system! My previous therapist whom I saw for less than a year was much more textbooky. But my current therapist's training as an MFT has been a godsend for me because with that guidance, I can allow myself to veer away from what I "should" do and focus on what I know will work.)
4. And finally, therapy gave me the skills to work on my own interactions with my kid (verbal and nonverbal): to make sure that I was holding kid responsible for abrasive behavior (writing notes of apology, reflecting on how kid's abrasiveness makes others feel, building better behavior patterns), and also setting up dad for success in kid's eyes (this doesn't mean putting on a positive spin on whatever dad does, or making excuses for dad's bad behavior - it means humanizing dad in general by making inclusive jokes, pointing out positive ways in which kid is like dad, "teaming" myself with dad so kid stops splitting dad & me, etc). In specific, therapy allowed me to separate myself from my kid's emotions, to maintain my own sense of inner balance even while kid was feeling very strongly a certain way. A parent's adult perspective is precious and must be safeguarded! It helps kids (even adult kids!) a lot when a parent can breathe and remain centered no matter how badly the kid is acting.
This is all very general and not at all the specific tips you were asking for. But I hope my answer illustrates how your situation is so very specific to you, and so the only person who can figure out the specific tips you need is... you! And hopefully you too will have a therapist who is supportive and gives you room to realize how much you are allowed to trust yourself, so that you don't feel quite so lost and alone as you tackle this immense problem.
posted by MiraK at 9:42 AM on May 23, 2022 [9 favorites]
So hypothetically, let's say she is autistic (you're using euphemisms, but it sounds like that's what you mean). And let's say that explains some of her abrasiveness or her chaotic life.
You might be tempted to use that information for leverage: "See, [daughter], you're acting this way because you're autistic, and now you have to listen to me and act differently." I'd like to encourage you to use it for empathy: "Okay, self, her life choices are still annoying as fuck, but I bet they're challenging for her too, and maybe I should listen to her about those challenges instead of making assumptions."
The same advice would apply for any other mental health diagnosis, fwiw.
posted by nebulawindphone at 11:52 AM on May 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
You might be tempted to use that information for leverage: "See, [daughter], you're acting this way because you're autistic, and now you have to listen to me and act differently." I'd like to encourage you to use it for empathy: "Okay, self, her life choices are still annoying as fuck, but I bet they're challenging for her too, and maybe I should listen to her about those challenges instead of making assumptions."
The same advice would apply for any other mental health diagnosis, fwiw.
posted by nebulawindphone at 11:52 AM on May 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
You're the mom, right? We get all the blame, from society, from co-parents, from ourselves. I think therapy is the best thing for you right now. You're going to have to do something really hard: start creating some boundaries with your daughter and giving up guilt and control.
Because you aren't responsible for how she is, her relationships with her other family members, her way of being in the world, and anything about her. You didn't completely cause it, and you certainly can't change it or fix it. Say that to yourself over and over again: "I can't fix my daughter."
Would it be helpful to go down the path of your fears? You say you are worried she will blow up her relationship with her dad if you don't intervene. And, so what if that happens? Is that bad? Or will that then be her responsibility to manage and improve if she wants? Maybe she needs to blow things up to figure out how to make things better. But, regardless, that's not on you. A good first step would be not to discuss her father with her anymore. If she says, "Why doesn't Dad want to spend time with me?" then you say, "That would be a great question to ask Dad." If she says, "Dad hurt my feelings," you say, "That would be a great thing to tell Dad." And so on.
This is a super unhealthy dynamic. And here's the thing: this dynamic isn't good for her either!
At the very least, please do read this article from the Atlantic about intensive parenting and good enough parenting and maybe follow some of the paths of resources and books they talk about (if it's paywalled, just open a new browser you never use and read it there).
You need to forgive yourself for all your parenting missteps. We are not perfect people, and we are doing the best we can.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:45 PM on May 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
Because you aren't responsible for how she is, her relationships with her other family members, her way of being in the world, and anything about her. You didn't completely cause it, and you certainly can't change it or fix it. Say that to yourself over and over again: "I can't fix my daughter."
Would it be helpful to go down the path of your fears? You say you are worried she will blow up her relationship with her dad if you don't intervene. And, so what if that happens? Is that bad? Or will that then be her responsibility to manage and improve if she wants? Maybe she needs to blow things up to figure out how to make things better. But, regardless, that's not on you. A good first step would be not to discuss her father with her anymore. If she says, "Why doesn't Dad want to spend time with me?" then you say, "That would be a great question to ask Dad." If she says, "Dad hurt my feelings," you say, "That would be a great thing to tell Dad." And so on.
This is a super unhealthy dynamic. And here's the thing: this dynamic isn't good for her either!
At the very least, please do read this article from the Atlantic about intensive parenting and good enough parenting and maybe follow some of the paths of resources and books they talk about (if it's paywalled, just open a new browser you never use and read it there).
You need to forgive yourself for all your parenting missteps. We are not perfect people, and we are doing the best we can.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:45 PM on May 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
Ultimately, she's a (young) adult and has to make her own choices but would it help to get her to be open to therapy if it's to better manage her relationships with her dad and sibling, rather than anything that's "wrong" with her? If you are comfortable sharing that you are seeking out help, it might make her feel less like you are judging her from on high and more like, I have found something helpful, maybe you will find it helpful too. From there, she can ask you for help and advice (or not) and hopefully find some resources that will make things less challenging for her. I went through some bad stuff that would have been helped by better parenting but I know my parents don't blame themselves and I certainly don't blame them. Everyone is usually just doing the best they can, and that includes you and your daughter. Maybe not your ex-husband though.
posted by *s at 12:50 PM on May 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by *s at 12:50 PM on May 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
I feel for you, I hope you find the support you need!
Other people have given great advice about family systems and setting boundaries. I'll just say that if you think neurodivergence is at play, you need to learn from neurodivergent adults. Not outdated checklists from neuronormative researchers. Here, take a look at Neurodivergent Insights. While it's focused on autism and ADHD, it has useful diagrams showing overlap and differences between many sorts of neurotypes and mental health issues. The pop psych stereotypes that are circulated about these ways of being are very damaging and inaccurate. So I'm not surprised you didn't find Reddit or a cursory Google search helpful!
I encourage you to keep an open mind. 2-3% of the population is autistic, and it's actually slightly more common with women than men. Can you believe that nearly 80% of adult women who are autistic don't know it! And 1 in 23 adults are ADHD. They often co-occur. By the way, it's likely you or your ex-husband is neurodivergent as well. There is a strong genetic component to brain wiring patterns.
As a neurodivergent person myself, whose behavior baffled my family for years— why was I so intense, aloof, shy, sensitive, anxious, abrasive at home when I was so smart, kind, well-liked at school?— I gently suggest that healing is only possible with understanding. You have to know who you are and how your strengths and weaknesses interact with the outer world in order to accept yourself and make changes. No matter what's going on, staying in the dark won't help. For either of you! (And if your daughter is neurodivergent, she is likely masking hard to cope with sensory and social differences. Suppressing your true self is exhausting and it's a major driver of overwhelm, anxiety and depression. Living as a neurodivergent person is so difficult that many of develop complex PTSD just from existing. Look for a trauma therapist.)
posted by lloquat at 2:25 PM on May 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Other people have given great advice about family systems and setting boundaries. I'll just say that if you think neurodivergence is at play, you need to learn from neurodivergent adults. Not outdated checklists from neuronormative researchers. Here, take a look at Neurodivergent Insights. While it's focused on autism and ADHD, it has useful diagrams showing overlap and differences between many sorts of neurotypes and mental health issues. The pop psych stereotypes that are circulated about these ways of being are very damaging and inaccurate. So I'm not surprised you didn't find Reddit or a cursory Google search helpful!
I encourage you to keep an open mind. 2-3% of the population is autistic, and it's actually slightly more common with women than men. Can you believe that nearly 80% of adult women who are autistic don't know it! And 1 in 23 adults are ADHD. They often co-occur. By the way, it's likely you or your ex-husband is neurodivergent as well. There is a strong genetic component to brain wiring patterns.
As a neurodivergent person myself, whose behavior baffled my family for years— why was I so intense, aloof, shy, sensitive, anxious, abrasive at home when I was so smart, kind, well-liked at school?— I gently suggest that healing is only possible with understanding. You have to know who you are and how your strengths and weaknesses interact with the outer world in order to accept yourself and make changes. No matter what's going on, staying in the dark won't help. For either of you! (And if your daughter is neurodivergent, she is likely masking hard to cope with sensory and social differences. Suppressing your true self is exhausting and it's a major driver of overwhelm, anxiety and depression. Living as a neurodivergent person is so difficult that many of develop complex PTSD just from existing. Look for a trauma therapist.)
posted by lloquat at 2:25 PM on May 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Hi. There is some mean stuff above that I'm going to urge you not to take personally, because people who do not have a difficult adult child or mental illness in their family really need to back off here. Most people have no idea how life consuming it can be, how depressing and how isolating. It is really damn rough. Please don't tell parents who are going through this that they clearly do not love their children. Because we get a little sad on occasions like Mother's Day or on occasions when our peers are rejoicing in their children's successes, does not mean we do not love our kids. My mentally ill 30 year old kid is hilarious and brilliant and absolutely dedicated to social justice. He can be the sweetest person on earth. He also spent Mother's Day sending me a barrage of increasingly abusive texts that he may or may not remember. My relationship with him (undiagnosed and untreated as an adult; a whole bunch of diagnoses and failed treatments as a teenager, when he wasn't in jail) is far and away the most difficult, expensive, time consuming and sometimes terrifying relationship of my life. He will probably never be fully independent. I have made some kind of peace with it but it was not easy. It's heartbreaking and I love him with all my heart. That has never changed and never will.
However! I am here to tell you that it does get a little better from the early 20s, which were in retrospect the absolute nadir. The issues don't go away, but you do get more used to them. Similarly, as your child gets older, they get at least a little better at coping with their own issues. Brains take a while to fully develop.
What I have to do is remind myself constantly that if it is so uncomfortable for me to be around his brain, it is much, much worse for him to be inside it. I can walk away. He can't. Or, well, he won't, but that is his choice and there's not a damn thing I can do about it. Thinking that way has helped a lot, though. That and remembering that I need to put on my own oxygen mask. I am trying to get better at just walking away and setting boundaries, but honestly I'm still not that good at it. It is hard. It is an ongoing process. Nobody is perfect at it. Cut yourself some slack. It is really hard to step back when the stakes are so high and you want what is best for your child, always, but you have to do it. It is also really hard to let your kid navigate their own other parent and/or sibling relationships without your help but, again, you have to do it. They are all adults and it is time to let them hash it out themselves. In the long run that's going to help you tremendously. I mean, do you really want to still be fielding angry phone calls from your ex when your kid is 40? I sure don't.
Therapy helped me a lot. Remember that the late teens and early twenties is a difficult transition for all parents, not just those of us with kids who need a bit more help than others may. It's been super hard for me to not keep saying, please get therapy, please try talking to this person, please, here is a phone number - but it's not actually helpful, for me or for him. He has made his boundaries clear and he knows I have this information if he wants it. I have to back off and let him make those choices, just like I had to back off and stop saying, be careful. I have to trust him to know what is best for him. It's not what I would choose but it's not my life.
I have been looking for an online support group myself and I have not found one, so I'm watching this question with interest. The closest thing I ever found was a Nar-Anon group that met in person before Covid and it was a giant life saver. It taught me the three Cs, which are true of many things, not just substance abuse: you didn't cause it, you can't cure it and you can't control it. I was also afraid of joining groups - I'm not a joiner, we don't have a diagnosis, yada yada. Nar-anon cured me of that. If there was an active Nami group around here I would join it so fast my head would spin, diagnosis or no diagnosis.
posted by mygothlaundry at 3:36 PM on May 23, 2022 [12 favorites]
However! I am here to tell you that it does get a little better from the early 20s, which were in retrospect the absolute nadir. The issues don't go away, but you do get more used to them. Similarly, as your child gets older, they get at least a little better at coping with their own issues. Brains take a while to fully develop.
What I have to do is remind myself constantly that if it is so uncomfortable for me to be around his brain, it is much, much worse for him to be inside it. I can walk away. He can't. Or, well, he won't, but that is his choice and there's not a damn thing I can do about it. Thinking that way has helped a lot, though. That and remembering that I need to put on my own oxygen mask. I am trying to get better at just walking away and setting boundaries, but honestly I'm still not that good at it. It is hard. It is an ongoing process. Nobody is perfect at it. Cut yourself some slack. It is really hard to step back when the stakes are so high and you want what is best for your child, always, but you have to do it. It is also really hard to let your kid navigate their own other parent and/or sibling relationships without your help but, again, you have to do it. They are all adults and it is time to let them hash it out themselves. In the long run that's going to help you tremendously. I mean, do you really want to still be fielding angry phone calls from your ex when your kid is 40? I sure don't.
Therapy helped me a lot. Remember that the late teens and early twenties is a difficult transition for all parents, not just those of us with kids who need a bit more help than others may. It's been super hard for me to not keep saying, please get therapy, please try talking to this person, please, here is a phone number - but it's not actually helpful, for me or for him. He has made his boundaries clear and he knows I have this information if he wants it. I have to back off and let him make those choices, just like I had to back off and stop saying, be careful. I have to trust him to know what is best for him. It's not what I would choose but it's not my life.
I have been looking for an online support group myself and I have not found one, so I'm watching this question with interest. The closest thing I ever found was a Nar-Anon group that met in person before Covid and it was a giant life saver. It taught me the three Cs, which are true of many things, not just substance abuse: you didn't cause it, you can't cure it and you can't control it. I was also afraid of joining groups - I'm not a joiner, we don't have a diagnosis, yada yada. Nar-anon cured me of that. If there was an active Nami group around here I would join it so fast my head would spin, diagnosis or no diagnosis.
posted by mygothlaundry at 3:36 PM on May 23, 2022 [12 favorites]
I really feel like if I disengage in even a minor way, she may do irreparable damage to her relationship with her dad and sibling
Let her. She’s twenty years old and apparently otherwise a socially functioning being. High time for her to start taking responsibility for her own relationships. You are not doing her any favors by shielding her from the consequences of her actions.
posted by praemunire at 5:22 PM on May 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Let her. She’s twenty years old and apparently otherwise a socially functioning being. High time for her to start taking responsibility for her own relationships. You are not doing her any favors by shielding her from the consequences of her actions.
posted by praemunire at 5:22 PM on May 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
I like the idea of offering to pay for therapy and possibly help look for a therapist. It’s an actionable way to help.
Also her feelings about men make me wonder… is it possible she experienced trauma or abuse from a man at some point in her life? I can see trauma potentially causing volatility in close personal relationships, even if more distant friendships and professional relationships are more stable/manageable.
posted by cnidaria at 8:02 PM on May 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also her feelings about men make me wonder… is it possible she experienced trauma or abuse from a man at some point in her life? I can see trauma potentially causing volatility in close personal relationships, even if more distant friendships and professional relationships are more stable/manageable.
posted by cnidaria at 8:02 PM on May 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
I’d say therapy to feel supported in letting go and letting her figure stuff out on her own would help immensely here.
I’m kinda alarmed at the folks in this thread that are catastrophizing and assuming OPs daughter is self-destructive or otherwise in acute danger, when it doesn’t sound like that. It’s unnecessarily cruel to OPs daughter, who has no voice in this space.
She’s employed, has friends, and no severe addictions or self-harming habits, so realistically the sky isn’t falling here.
Honestly, OP, if your main concern is that she might butt heads with her father and sibling, just take a step back give her the space to do so. If it’s what she needs to do, it will be freeing for her, and if it’s an impulsive blow-up, she’ll learn from the aftermath all the same.
As for the constant calling for support, it sounds like she needs a sounding board for her anxieties (wanting someone to lean on in the terrors of modern life is pretty normal), and your batteries are empty/you don’t want to be bearing her emotions. That’s totally valid, and is a great reason for both of you to have a therapist or counsellor to talk to. Being on the receiving end of someone’s venting can make them seem like they’re a complete mess when in truth they might be doing just fine, but you’re only getting their lowest moments. It’s tiring for sure. You both need some breathing room and outside support.
Also, fearful hostility towards men isn’t a sign of mental illness. It’s a sign of survival instincts.
posted by Pemberly at 9:36 PM on May 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
I’m kinda alarmed at the folks in this thread that are catastrophizing and assuming OPs daughter is self-destructive or otherwise in acute danger, when it doesn’t sound like that. It’s unnecessarily cruel to OPs daughter, who has no voice in this space.
She’s employed, has friends, and no severe addictions or self-harming habits, so realistically the sky isn’t falling here.
Honestly, OP, if your main concern is that she might butt heads with her father and sibling, just take a step back give her the space to do so. If it’s what she needs to do, it will be freeing for her, and if it’s an impulsive blow-up, she’ll learn from the aftermath all the same.
As for the constant calling for support, it sounds like she needs a sounding board for her anxieties (wanting someone to lean on in the terrors of modern life is pretty normal), and your batteries are empty/you don’t want to be bearing her emotions. That’s totally valid, and is a great reason for both of you to have a therapist or counsellor to talk to. Being on the receiving end of someone’s venting can make them seem like they’re a complete mess when in truth they might be doing just fine, but you’re only getting their lowest moments. It’s tiring for sure. You both need some breathing room and outside support.
Also, fearful hostility towards men isn’t a sign of mental illness. It’s a sign of survival instincts.
posted by Pemberly at 9:36 PM on May 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
While I have compassion for your struggles, I'm with the people who say it just mostly sounds like you don't understand your daughter so you have pathologized her behavior even though you've also actively contributed to the dysfunctional mother-daughter dynamic. I am an amazing, kind, independent, successful person who's also sensitive and has little tolerance for bullshit. Yet growing up and even into early adulthood I was often reduced to my symptoms (OCD and PTSD... guess how I got those btw?) and treated as difficult or defective. Outside of home? I was doing pretty darn well, like your daughter. You want to improve things and you can, but you're going to have to do major work on yourself.
I have a good relationship with my mom now at nearly 40 but it took me almost this long to realize that I wasn't a bad daughter, that it's the parent's job to be the responsible adult who sets the tone and boundaries and loves unconditionally. I love her so much. While it was not easy seeing my mom admit her own fault, my evolution plus her openness to grow is what has made things so much better. Your daughter clearly loves you so much because she's calling all the time. She doesn't believe in her own ability to be strong but it seems you don't either. I call my mom a lot still but we have found a good balance. You can find a way to show her love and also give yourself space. The fact that she has good friendships is likely in part that she probably didn't feel the support and love at home that she needed. That's the case for me, although again things are better now with my mom. Now she's actually complimented me on them, which I appreciate because friendship is a big deal to me.
Ok, some hard words said not as criticism but just realness: I'm sorry but both you AND your husband fucked up here. And that's OK because you tried your best and can now become better. I'm so sorry that your ex-husband is blaming you: that's so unfair and sign of his shittiness, not yours. I'm glad you are not longer stuck being married to him. I'm glad you're taking care of you more these days because you deserve it! Along those lines, it seems like everyone in your family is playing the blame game, and that gets us nowhere. We're all to blame, no one is to blame, etc. It's about finding solutions through better communication, not pointing fingers. There's a lot of hope but it will require change!!
Find a good therapist who will both be gentle and honest with you. As you start and proceed on your therapy journey, you can be open to your daughter (and the golden younger child who is also under pressure to be perfect) about how you are working to better understand yourself and others. Your progress will help you have a better relationship and likely inspire your daughter to do the same. One day you could even go to family therapy together. You raised a daughter who has so many good traits and is successful in life. Everything can and will get better with effort, time, and trial and error!
posted by smorgasbord at 9:49 PM on May 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have a good relationship with my mom now at nearly 40 but it took me almost this long to realize that I wasn't a bad daughter, that it's the parent's job to be the responsible adult who sets the tone and boundaries and loves unconditionally. I love her so much. While it was not easy seeing my mom admit her own fault, my evolution plus her openness to grow is what has made things so much better. Your daughter clearly loves you so much because she's calling all the time. She doesn't believe in her own ability to be strong but it seems you don't either. I call my mom a lot still but we have found a good balance. You can find a way to show her love and also give yourself space. The fact that she has good friendships is likely in part that she probably didn't feel the support and love at home that she needed. That's the case for me, although again things are better now with my mom. Now she's actually complimented me on them, which I appreciate because friendship is a big deal to me.
Ok, some hard words said not as criticism but just realness: I'm sorry but both you AND your husband fucked up here. And that's OK because you tried your best and can now become better. I'm so sorry that your ex-husband is blaming you: that's so unfair and sign of his shittiness, not yours. I'm glad you are not longer stuck being married to him. I'm glad you're taking care of you more these days because you deserve it! Along those lines, it seems like everyone in your family is playing the blame game, and that gets us nowhere. We're all to blame, no one is to blame, etc. It's about finding solutions through better communication, not pointing fingers. There's a lot of hope but it will require change!!
Find a good therapist who will both be gentle and honest with you. As you start and proceed on your therapy journey, you can be open to your daughter (and the golden younger child who is also under pressure to be perfect) about how you are working to better understand yourself and others. Your progress will help you have a better relationship and likely inspire your daughter to do the same. One day you could even go to family therapy together. You raised a daughter who has so many good traits and is successful in life. Everything can and will get better with effort, time, and trial and error!
posted by smorgasbord at 9:49 PM on May 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have dealt with moms like you -- my simple advice as a neurodivergent daughter is that you would be well advised to go to therapy and learn to heal from your own traumas, and to stop harming yourself and your daughter with your projections and catastrophizing. Your Ask has signs of someone who is projecting your own judgments and value and stories onto your daughter, which is a huge symptom of anxiety and depression. I hope you find peace through your own strengthening of taking care of your needs and mental health, rather than trying to find it all from your daughter. She might feel safer that way once she sees you doing your own work.
posted by yueliang at 12:38 AM on May 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by yueliang at 12:38 AM on May 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Additionally - I would recommend DBT support groups, which is Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, and modalities that focus on inner child trauma and healing.
posted by yueliang at 12:44 AM on May 24, 2022
posted by yueliang at 12:44 AM on May 24, 2022
I want to add a couple points to consider.
1) are you under the impression that your daughter is playing a role in her bust ups with dad and sibling and trying to help her understand her part in the bust up and therefore she is feeling invalidated by you and getting mad at you for not validating her and then she feels very misunderstood by you, her mother? There may be instances where her dad is absolutely wrong and it doesn’t matter that she has called him a disgusting moron, she is entitled to be 100 percent as angry as she is- are you trying to tell her to be less angry because she played a part in it? Then that’s making her mad at you? And you go in circles?
That doesn’t happen with her friends because they support her 100 percent in a way that’s probably not possible for you to do.
That kind of conversation may just be too big for you to have. Maybe other people here can tell you how to set that boundary if that’s what is happening.
2) If your daughter is neurodivergent you have to change the way you think about parenting. It was not your job to DO something about it, it was your job to accept her unconditionally, with boundaries of course. Neurodivergent or autistic people’s ways are such that it can limit a family’s ability to do typical bonding things and unless you have a particularly good rapport with each other and lots of acceptance and patience it is a recipe for disaster and a general poor atmosphere with unkind comments and humor and contempt because of misunderstandings. Many adult autistic people will tell you that they were traumatized as children, it’s really hard to hear that as a parent when you are just trying your best but being autistic doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with her at all, usually if they are unhappy it’s because there is something wrong with the environment and it’s hard for them to communicate about it.
I hope you can kind of extricate yourself and stop seeing yourself as still part of this family group and maybe focus on getting to know your daughter as a friend- she sounds like a great friend.
posted by pairofshades at 1:31 AM on May 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
1) are you under the impression that your daughter is playing a role in her bust ups with dad and sibling and trying to help her understand her part in the bust up and therefore she is feeling invalidated by you and getting mad at you for not validating her and then she feels very misunderstood by you, her mother? There may be instances where her dad is absolutely wrong and it doesn’t matter that she has called him a disgusting moron, she is entitled to be 100 percent as angry as she is- are you trying to tell her to be less angry because she played a part in it? Then that’s making her mad at you? And you go in circles?
That doesn’t happen with her friends because they support her 100 percent in a way that’s probably not possible for you to do.
That kind of conversation may just be too big for you to have. Maybe other people here can tell you how to set that boundary if that’s what is happening.
2) If your daughter is neurodivergent you have to change the way you think about parenting. It was not your job to DO something about it, it was your job to accept her unconditionally, with boundaries of course. Neurodivergent or autistic people’s ways are such that it can limit a family’s ability to do typical bonding things and unless you have a particularly good rapport with each other and lots of acceptance and patience it is a recipe for disaster and a general poor atmosphere with unkind comments and humor and contempt because of misunderstandings. Many adult autistic people will tell you that they were traumatized as children, it’s really hard to hear that as a parent when you are just trying your best but being autistic doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with her at all, usually if they are unhappy it’s because there is something wrong with the environment and it’s hard for them to communicate about it.
I hope you can kind of extricate yourself and stop seeing yourself as still part of this family group and maybe focus on getting to know your daughter as a friend- she sounds like a great friend.
posted by pairofshades at 1:31 AM on May 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
I feel like many of us were your daughter at 20. Being that age is hard. Really hard. In so many ways, it feels like society at large expects you to have sorted yourself out by then, but there a lot of the common life experiences in one's early twenties are just shitty and difficult and messy. In a lot of ways, it's even harder than being an adolescent. I joke sometimes that being 25 was the worst year of my life. I've had bad years since then, but those first few years of adulthood are so hard because there's just no context for anything that happens. For a lot of people, it's the first time we are allowed to make mistakes with actual consequences, and if you're used to everything coming easily, the actual consequences feel really bad.
Especially since you describe her as intelligent and highly organized, I'm wondering if the "abrasiveness" could just be shame or embarrassment when she feels like she should have her shit together but does not. Speaking only for myself, I felt a lot of pressure to be totally independent at that age, and like I always needed to know what I was doing - or, more importantly, like I always needed to look like I knew what I was doing. For me, this meant a lot of flailing about desperate to conceal my mistakes and shortcomings before anyone noticed, and avoiding seeking help even when I knew I probably needed it.
If your daughter was a high achiever in school, she probably felt a lot of pressure to seem competent and in control. It's hard for anyone to seek help, but I think it's especially difficult for women like your daughter. If she's always been praised for her maturity and intelligence, it likely feels very bad to be free to make mistakes and suffer the consequences, especially because she's probably simultaneously putting a lot of pressure on herself to act like an adult.
The only other thing that really jumped out to me about your post is your mentioning that she has "thoughts that at times seem really extreme (eg. fearful hostility towards men)". I just want to point out that it's possible this is totally rational from her point of view. You simply have no way of truly knowing what experiences she may have had that are informing her behavior. I mean this gently, but if you've in any way indicated that you think her thoughts are extreme or unwarranted, she might be feeling like you're dismissing a very real source of pain for her. If she hasn't shared anything specific with you, don't push her, but in any case, I think it's a great idea to suggest that she speak to a therapist or counselor. I also think it would be very helpful for you to find a professional of your own to speak to regularly.
posted by easy, lucky, free at 3:45 PM on May 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Especially since you describe her as intelligent and highly organized, I'm wondering if the "abrasiveness" could just be shame or embarrassment when she feels like she should have her shit together but does not. Speaking only for myself, I felt a lot of pressure to be totally independent at that age, and like I always needed to know what I was doing - or, more importantly, like I always needed to look like I knew what I was doing. For me, this meant a lot of flailing about desperate to conceal my mistakes and shortcomings before anyone noticed, and avoiding seeking help even when I knew I probably needed it.
If your daughter was a high achiever in school, she probably felt a lot of pressure to seem competent and in control. It's hard for anyone to seek help, but I think it's especially difficult for women like your daughter. If she's always been praised for her maturity and intelligence, it likely feels very bad to be free to make mistakes and suffer the consequences, especially because she's probably simultaneously putting a lot of pressure on herself to act like an adult.
The only other thing that really jumped out to me about your post is your mentioning that she has "thoughts that at times seem really extreme (eg. fearful hostility towards men)". I just want to point out that it's possible this is totally rational from her point of view. You simply have no way of truly knowing what experiences she may have had that are informing her behavior. I mean this gently, but if you've in any way indicated that you think her thoughts are extreme or unwarranted, she might be feeling like you're dismissing a very real source of pain for her. If she hasn't shared anything specific with you, don't push her, but in any case, I think it's a great idea to suggest that she speak to a therapist or counselor. I also think it would be very helpful for you to find a professional of your own to speak to regularly.
posted by easy, lucky, free at 3:45 PM on May 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
This from the Atlantic article about good enough parenting I linked above, and it's focused more on parenting younger kids, but I think this part resonated for me and maybe it will help you reframe your role in your daughter's life:
Rafts of research prove that intensive parenting mainly serves to burn out parents while harming children’s competence and mental health. ...
“Good enough” does not mean mediocre or apathetic (the not-good-enough parent is real), but requires acknowledging the point beyond which attempts at further optimization cause more harm than good. Given reasonable conditions and plenty of love, there are many ways in which kids can have happy childhoods and emerge as healthy, conscientious, successful adults. The developmental psychologist and philosopher Alison Gopnik likens this approach to gardening. Where intensive parents are carpenters, hammering children into a particular shape one stroke at a time, gardening parents pour their labor into creating preconditions of “love, safety, and stability” for their kids to grow in potentially unpredictable ways.
Moving away from intensive parenting will also require a culture in which parents’ needs outweigh child optimizations. ...
At the same time, we need to normalize saying yes to prioritizing adult friendships and an adequate amount of sleep. We need to reassure one another—explicitly, publicly—that being a whole person is being a good parent. Generally, content parents are less prone to conflict and more prone to listening, and the opposite also holds true. Small, everyday parenting decisions may not have a massive impact on kids, but the causal link between parental well-being and child well-being is quite strong. Anxiety-driven intensive parenting has even been implicated as one factor in the rising youth mental-health crisis. Freedom from intensive methods provides both parents and their children with the ability to fashion a healthier life.
I say this as a parent of a kid who is an adult and who has a lot of mental health issues, so I don't think this applies only to kids for whom everything is going swimmingly in life. And I don't think it's too late for you to find new ways of parenting your child, and new ways of taking care of yourself.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:11 PM on May 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Rafts of research prove that intensive parenting mainly serves to burn out parents while harming children’s competence and mental health. ...
“Good enough” does not mean mediocre or apathetic (the not-good-enough parent is real), but requires acknowledging the point beyond which attempts at further optimization cause more harm than good. Given reasonable conditions and plenty of love, there are many ways in which kids can have happy childhoods and emerge as healthy, conscientious, successful adults. The developmental psychologist and philosopher Alison Gopnik likens this approach to gardening. Where intensive parents are carpenters, hammering children into a particular shape one stroke at a time, gardening parents pour their labor into creating preconditions of “love, safety, and stability” for their kids to grow in potentially unpredictable ways.
Moving away from intensive parenting will also require a culture in which parents’ needs outweigh child optimizations. ...
At the same time, we need to normalize saying yes to prioritizing adult friendships and an adequate amount of sleep. We need to reassure one another—explicitly, publicly—that being a whole person is being a good parent. Generally, content parents are less prone to conflict and more prone to listening, and the opposite also holds true. Small, everyday parenting decisions may not have a massive impact on kids, but the causal link between parental well-being and child well-being is quite strong. Anxiety-driven intensive parenting has even been implicated as one factor in the rising youth mental-health crisis. Freedom from intensive methods provides both parents and their children with the ability to fashion a healthier life.
I say this as a parent of a kid who is an adult and who has a lot of mental health issues, so I don't think this applies only to kids for whom everything is going swimmingly in life. And I don't think it's too late for you to find new ways of parenting your child, and new ways of taking care of yourself.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:11 PM on May 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Sorry, missed the edit window but meant to post the link to Atlantic article again, quoted in my previous comment.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:23 PM on May 24, 2022
posted by bluedaisy at 4:23 PM on May 24, 2022
I’ve been returning to this question over and over because mirrors some of the dynamics in my own family. I’m your other child in this scenario, with a sibling whose anger, abrasiveness and moods held the family hostage and kept everyone walking on egg shells for the better part of my childhood. Like your child, AFAIK my sibling has never exhibited this behavior outside the home, and like you my Dad blames my Mom for my sibling’s behavior (he also blames me). From what I can tell, my parents never took any meaningful steps to get my sibling help, and my Mom continues to be a support for my sibling in ways that are very difficult for me to watch.
You cannot force your child to confront and work through her problems. You cannot force your daughter and her father to have a close relationship, and you cannot force your children to be close (distancing myself from my sibling is the only way I knew how to protect myself). The only thing you can control is how you support yourself, and know that by supporting yourself you can better show up for your daughter AND the rest of your family. I am so glad to hear that you are taking steps to see a therapist, they will be able to help you work through the guilt and pain you feel and that reverberates through your entire family. I _wish_ my Mom was open to getting therapy, I think knowing that she was working on tools to support herself would help release me from some of the burden I feel to support her through her pain. I think it would help us have a closer relationship. But just like my Mom can't force my sister to work on her problems, I can’t force my Mom to go to therapy.
I wish you and your family well.
posted by congratpin at 7:09 AM on May 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
You cannot force your child to confront and work through her problems. You cannot force your daughter and her father to have a close relationship, and you cannot force your children to be close (distancing myself from my sibling is the only way I knew how to protect myself). The only thing you can control is how you support yourself, and know that by supporting yourself you can better show up for your daughter AND the rest of your family. I am so glad to hear that you are taking steps to see a therapist, they will be able to help you work through the guilt and pain you feel and that reverberates through your entire family. I _wish_ my Mom was open to getting therapy, I think knowing that she was working on tools to support herself would help release me from some of the burden I feel to support her through her pain. I think it would help us have a closer relationship. But just like my Mom can't force my sister to work on her problems, I can’t force my Mom to go to therapy.
I wish you and your family well.
posted by congratpin at 7:09 AM on May 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Lots of different opinions upthread, it does sound like therapeutic help to deal with your own feelings about your family could help you.
I had a VERY tumultuous time with my family in my early 20s and the conflict did seem irreparable at various times but we made it through. My dad and stepmom are actually visiting my wife and I right now and it’s going really well! I was often getting into abrasive political arguments with my family (my fault) but also they took me being trans pretty poorly (their fault) and the politics and the trans stuff combined to make a horrible mess. Also I’m “neurodivergent” (ADHD, maybe autistic as well) and I suspect most of my family is as well. They’re all weirdos to be sure.
I didn’t speak to my stepmom or mother or stepsisters for years and my father pretty sparingly at times. In our case, I did a lot growth and became a better communicator and learned to keep my opinions to myself, and then my dad and grandmother had really scary life threatening accidents that put those new skills to the test in a serious way, and we came out of those crises with some shared successes to build on. I still find a lot of people I’m related to very difficult, but I’ve learned to accept them.
Honestly, I don’t feel that anything my family did helped me with this. I just needed to grow up and learn to take care of myself how I needed, away from my family. I don’t think you can change your daughter through support or therapy, and trying is more likely to cause harm than good. I am working on rebuilding relationships with my stepsisters now and it’s slow and weird. My dad has been trying to get me to do this for years and honestly every time he does it makes me not want to, I’m doing it for my own reasons.
All of this is to say that there’s a good chance your daughter will turn out fine, even if you did make mistakes. It seems like one of the hardest things about parenting is when your kids are at an age where they don’t necessarily need your help but may still want it. I do recommend therapy for yourself, for your own peace of mind, because your daughter is going to find peace on her own terms and her own timeline and the only person you really have influence over is yourself. You sound like a really caring mother and I’m sure your daughter feels that as well even though she doesn’t sound like she knows when to say it.
posted by Summers at 3:50 AM on May 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
I had a VERY tumultuous time with my family in my early 20s and the conflict did seem irreparable at various times but we made it through. My dad and stepmom are actually visiting my wife and I right now and it’s going really well! I was often getting into abrasive political arguments with my family (my fault) but also they took me being trans pretty poorly (their fault) and the politics and the trans stuff combined to make a horrible mess. Also I’m “neurodivergent” (ADHD, maybe autistic as well) and I suspect most of my family is as well. They’re all weirdos to be sure.
I didn’t speak to my stepmom or mother or stepsisters for years and my father pretty sparingly at times. In our case, I did a lot growth and became a better communicator and learned to keep my opinions to myself, and then my dad and grandmother had really scary life threatening accidents that put those new skills to the test in a serious way, and we came out of those crises with some shared successes to build on. I still find a lot of people I’m related to very difficult, but I’ve learned to accept them.
Honestly, I don’t feel that anything my family did helped me with this. I just needed to grow up and learn to take care of myself how I needed, away from my family. I don’t think you can change your daughter through support or therapy, and trying is more likely to cause harm than good. I am working on rebuilding relationships with my stepsisters now and it’s slow and weird. My dad has been trying to get me to do this for years and honestly every time he does it makes me not want to, I’m doing it for my own reasons.
All of this is to say that there’s a good chance your daughter will turn out fine, even if you did make mistakes. It seems like one of the hardest things about parenting is when your kids are at an age where they don’t necessarily need your help but may still want it. I do recommend therapy for yourself, for your own peace of mind, because your daughter is going to find peace on her own terms and her own timeline and the only person you really have influence over is yourself. You sound like a really caring mother and I’m sure your daughter feels that as well even though she doesn’t sound like she knows when to say it.
posted by Summers at 3:50 AM on May 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
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posted by pairofshades at 3:07 AM on May 23, 2022 [6 favorites]