I need input on how to handle a comment from my partner
May 15, 2022 6:31 AM Subscribe
My partner made a comment last night that I think is extremely unacceptable. I need input on how to address.
My father was diagnosed with Parkinson’s last year. My family was somewhat blindsided by this diagnosis and I think we’re all still struggling to find our best ways of managing this for him, my mom, ourselves and each other.
Last night, I mentioned to my partner based on messages from and conversations with my dad that it seems like my dad is depressed. My partner’s response was, “Is that because you start every conversation with ‘What’s shakin?’ “ I was shocked, and my partner’s immediate response wasn’t an apology, but essentially “What’s the big deal?” to which I responded, “I guess it’s better you said it to me and nobody else.” And to that, no apology again, no expressed remorse, but the response to that was “well obviously.”
After that, I left my mother-in-law’s with a friend of hers to his house to step away. Not evident I was upset, just needed to get out.
I’m upset, hurt and angry. I feel like this is so unacceptable I don’t really know where to go from here. I feel like I’ve been there for her and her mom through multiple emergencies, including worse situations from February 2020 onwards.
We are married, have been so for a decade plus, and this feels like a major ugly thing to me this morning. Especially with no acknowledgement or apology this morning, but continued discussion about items around their mom’s issues going on currently (as we are visiting now).
Wrapped up in my emotions is this:
-I rarely get asked how I am doing with my dad’s diagnosis. It doesn’t seem to be a concern, despite me mentioning new updates, circumstances, observations, etc
-My father-in-law (partner’s step-dad, entered the picture later in my partner’s life) died by suicide in February 2020, and I have been on call and available for every emergency from that incident from then on for my mother-in-law, and extremely available emotionally to my partner and mother-in-law at all times amongst harrowing pandemic circumstances, carried a lot of the emotional labor when with their mom, too
-My partner asked me to be extra good about reaching out to their mom, which I’ve done. My partner hasn’t done that in the wake of my father’s diagnosis to either him or my mom or my siblings despite knowing them for almost 20 years
Am I off base that this is categorically, completely unacceptable? How do I even address this?
My father was diagnosed with Parkinson’s last year. My family was somewhat blindsided by this diagnosis and I think we’re all still struggling to find our best ways of managing this for him, my mom, ourselves and each other.
Last night, I mentioned to my partner based on messages from and conversations with my dad that it seems like my dad is depressed. My partner’s response was, “Is that because you start every conversation with ‘What’s shakin?’ “ I was shocked, and my partner’s immediate response wasn’t an apology, but essentially “What’s the big deal?” to which I responded, “I guess it’s better you said it to me and nobody else.” And to that, no apology again, no expressed remorse, but the response to that was “well obviously.”
After that, I left my mother-in-law’s with a friend of hers to his house to step away. Not evident I was upset, just needed to get out.
I’m upset, hurt and angry. I feel like this is so unacceptable I don’t really know where to go from here. I feel like I’ve been there for her and her mom through multiple emergencies, including worse situations from February 2020 onwards.
We are married, have been so for a decade plus, and this feels like a major ugly thing to me this morning. Especially with no acknowledgement or apology this morning, but continued discussion about items around their mom’s issues going on currently (as we are visiting now).
Wrapped up in my emotions is this:
-I rarely get asked how I am doing with my dad’s diagnosis. It doesn’t seem to be a concern, despite me mentioning new updates, circumstances, observations, etc
-My father-in-law (partner’s step-dad, entered the picture later in my partner’s life) died by suicide in February 2020, and I have been on call and available for every emergency from that incident from then on for my mother-in-law, and extremely available emotionally to my partner and mother-in-law at all times amongst harrowing pandemic circumstances, carried a lot of the emotional labor when with their mom, too
-My partner asked me to be extra good about reaching out to their mom, which I’ve done. My partner hasn’t done that in the wake of my father’s diagnosis to either him or my mom or my siblings despite knowing them for almost 20 years
Am I off base that this is categorically, completely unacceptable? How do I even address this?
The remark seems weird but in isolation not a big deal. Your resentment about the lack of support and inequality in your relationship seems to be what upset you. Have you directly communicated with your partner about any of that?
"Hey [partner], your comment about me worrying dad was depressed seemed really dismissive and made me feel unsupported, and that's been happening a lot lately. This is hard for me and I need you to be there just like I'm trying to be there for you and your mom. Can we talk about this?"
posted by Wretch729 at 6:55 AM on May 15, 2022 [31 favorites]
"Hey [partner], your comment about me worrying dad was depressed seemed really dismissive and made me feel unsupported, and that's been happening a lot lately. This is hard for me and I need you to be there just like I'm trying to be there for you and your mom. Can we talk about this?"
posted by Wretch729 at 6:55 AM on May 15, 2022 [31 favorites]
Best answer: I mean, the comment itself could have been a welcome bit of dark humor in a different situation. To me it's obvious and immature, but probably some people (even people with dads with Parkinson's or Parkinson's themselves) would find it funny. But *you* don't find it funny, and even if the comment itself isn't "categorically, completely unacceptable" it's not great that he would misread you so dramatically given how long you've been together.
I think the other stuff (the asymmetry in the amount of support you give him vs. how much he gives you, etc.) is a much bigger issue and I can see how the comment could be a kind of "last straw". It seems like you are currently going to a lot of effort to keep your cool - maybe it's time to stop doing that? Like, why *not* go off on him about his "joke"?
More generally it seems like it's time to ask your partner for what you want... you say he asked you to be extra good about reaching out to his mom - have you asked him to be extra sensitive/helpful about your dad? Yeah, he should "just know," but apparently he doesn't "just know" so it seems like a good first step would be saying, "I want you to do this and that, and not do the other thing."
I know it's way easier for me to tell you to do this than it is to actually do it (I too tend to overthink, suppress my initial reaction, not ask for what I need, etc.) but I think it's worth doing.
posted by mskyle at 6:57 AM on May 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
I think the other stuff (the asymmetry in the amount of support you give him vs. how much he gives you, etc.) is a much bigger issue and I can see how the comment could be a kind of "last straw". It seems like you are currently going to a lot of effort to keep your cool - maybe it's time to stop doing that? Like, why *not* go off on him about his "joke"?
More generally it seems like it's time to ask your partner for what you want... you say he asked you to be extra good about reaching out to his mom - have you asked him to be extra sensitive/helpful about your dad? Yeah, he should "just know," but apparently he doesn't "just know" so it seems like a good first step would be saying, "I want you to do this and that, and not do the other thing."
I know it's way easier for me to tell you to do this than it is to actually do it (I too tend to overthink, suppress my initial reaction, not ask for what I need, etc.) but I think it's worth doing.
posted by mskyle at 6:57 AM on May 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
Some people, when they don't know what to say too help in a sad/grim situation, resort to humor. If they use humor and puns in the rest of their life, then they are trying to lighten the mood. Their comment especially fits this if they have a dark sense of humor. It's also a bit of a probe - "are you approaching the situation with levity?"
Unfortunately lightening the mood with dark humor never works. The correct response would have been verbal communication; "I'm not sure how to respond to this information. Would a joke or a hug be more appropriate?"
The lack of apology could be considered a good thing. I find in relationships, it's only acceptable to ask/give apologies when you know what you did wrong. It's very possible they're just "being themself" and doesn't understand how else they could have handled the situation.
The above advice is projecting a bit what I've learned as someone with dark humor over the years. I still don't always get it right. I think the important thing is to look at the intentions: lightening the mood, having a laugh, trying to connect, and probing for your state of mind. No - those things aren't inappropriate, but a slight adjustment to tactics would be appreciated.
posted by bbqturtle at 6:58 AM on May 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
Unfortunately lightening the mood with dark humor never works. The correct response would have been verbal communication; "I'm not sure how to respond to this information. Would a joke or a hug be more appropriate?"
The lack of apology could be considered a good thing. I find in relationships, it's only acceptable to ask/give apologies when you know what you did wrong. It's very possible they're just "being themself" and doesn't understand how else they could have handled the situation.
The above advice is projecting a bit what I've learned as someone with dark humor over the years. I still don't always get it right. I think the important thing is to look at the intentions: lightening the mood, having a laugh, trying to connect, and probing for your state of mind. No - those things aren't inappropriate, but a slight adjustment to tactics would be appreciated.
posted by bbqturtle at 6:58 AM on May 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
Setting aside the comment itself for a moment, in reading your description of your interaction with your partner there was no clear moment where you said something like "That was a hurtful thing to say and it bothered me". Some comments about waiting for an apology, expecting remorse, etc. Maybe it happened and you just aren't saying it, but if not I think you need to start there.
As to the comment itself, I think you're off base that it's categorically / completely unacceptable. That's going to be on a relationship by relationship basis, and I feel confident saying that as someone who currently has a parent on hospice care living with me. That's not the easiest thing in the world, and sometimes jokes like that are how we get by.
posted by true at 6:58 AM on May 15, 2022 [32 favorites]
As to the comment itself, I think you're off base that it's categorically / completely unacceptable. That's going to be on a relationship by relationship basis, and I feel confident saying that as someone who currently has a parent on hospice care living with me. That's not the easiest thing in the world, and sometimes jokes like that are how we get by.
posted by true at 6:58 AM on May 15, 2022 [32 favorites]
OK, that is awful, and I can see how you would be very very upset. Your partner should be sensitive to how you are feeling.
I'm thinking that, since you are asking this, you are interested in understanding how this kind of thing could come out of the mouth of someone who is otherwise a good person, and whom you love. My offering potential explanations is not to say that what they did is right, but to say that a good, loving person can still say something that feels insensitive. People can do harm, and often do, without any ill intent or even without a lack of love.
- OK, you said, "My partner asked me to be extra good about reaching out to their mom". Did you ask your partner, specifically, to do the same? Possibly you did, but if you didn't, explicitly, it may be that they need to be asked in order to know that this is something you want. It may be that they wouldn't think to do this on their own.
- Is it possible that your partner is on the autism spectrum?
- It sounds like they have been through some real darkness. It may be that, as for a lot of people, humor, black humor, is how they deal with tragic situations. This doesn't mean that they are unsympathetic; it just means that they need a little distance and a little levity to cope. Unrelenting sadness is real hard.
posted by amtho at 7:00 AM on May 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm thinking that, since you are asking this, you are interested in understanding how this kind of thing could come out of the mouth of someone who is otherwise a good person, and whom you love. My offering potential explanations is not to say that what they did is right, but to say that a good, loving person can still say something that feels insensitive. People can do harm, and often do, without any ill intent or even without a lack of love.
- OK, you said, "My partner asked me to be extra good about reaching out to their mom". Did you ask your partner, specifically, to do the same? Possibly you did, but if you didn't, explicitly, it may be that they need to be asked in order to know that this is something you want. It may be that they wouldn't think to do this on their own.
- Is it possible that your partner is on the autism spectrum?
- It sounds like they have been through some real darkness. It may be that, as for a lot of people, humor, black humor, is how they deal with tragic situations. This doesn't mean that they are unsympathetic; it just means that they need a little distance and a little levity to cope. Unrelenting sadness is real hard.
posted by amtho at 7:00 AM on May 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Have you plainly stated to your partner that the comment upset you and you found it offensive? Because if all you said was "it's better you said that to me and someone else" and his response was "well obviously", it sounds like maybe he didn't see your hurt and was affirming that of course he wouldn't make such a dark joke to a stranger, because that's something you only make with a loved one.
My father has Parkinson's and I would have laughed at the comment. Your partner may just not be the most perceptive pair of binoculars in the shed and can't read how it affected you.
Or maybe he's truly an asshole and knows it hurt you and will never apologize. But it's unclear at the moment whether your partner realizes.
The larger issue may be that there's some unequal emotional labor going on that needs to be brought up and addressed. It's easy for the person who hasn't been sharing the load to not realize that.
posted by TheLinenLenin at 7:07 AM on May 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
My father has Parkinson's and I would have laughed at the comment. Your partner may just not be the most perceptive pair of binoculars in the shed and can't read how it affected you.
Or maybe he's truly an asshole and knows it hurt you and will never apologize. But it's unclear at the moment whether your partner realizes.
The larger issue may be that there's some unequal emotional labor going on that needs to be brought up and addressed. It's easy for the person who hasn't been sharing the load to not realize that.
posted by TheLinenLenin at 7:07 AM on May 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
Partner's dark humor: This is something my husband would say to try and lift my spirits and I would just roll my eyes at. But it bothers you, so you should definitely tell them in specific words that you do not want dark humor surrounding your father & his diagnosis. Also, partner might not think they have to ask you about how you're doing because since you're already keeping them up to date with news and observations, if there was an issue with you, you'd fit that in as well.
Sometimes you just have to spell it out for people. "Partner, I am not well with all of this. I need some help."
I have been on call and available for every emergency from that incident from then on for my mother-in-law, and extremely available emotionally to my partner and mother-in-law at all times amongst harrowing pandemic circumstances, carried a lot of the emotional labor when with their mom, too
It might be time to dial back the load you're carrying for your partner's family so as to lessen the emotional scorekeeping in the background of your mind. "Sorry, I don't have time for your Mom because my Dad needs XYZ." If you're in the USA, use the prevailing (sketchy) narrative that things are going back to normal to scale back.
posted by kimberussell at 7:12 AM on May 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Sometimes you just have to spell it out for people. "Partner, I am not well with all of this. I need some help."
I have been on call and available for every emergency from that incident from then on for my mother-in-law, and extremely available emotionally to my partner and mother-in-law at all times amongst harrowing pandemic circumstances, carried a lot of the emotional labor when with their mom, too
It might be time to dial back the load you're carrying for your partner's family so as to lessen the emotional scorekeeping in the background of your mind. "Sorry, I don't have time for your Mom because my Dad needs XYZ." If you're in the USA, use the prevailing (sketchy) narrative that things are going back to normal to scale back.
posted by kimberussell at 7:12 AM on May 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Just a reminder that OP's profile refers to him as "... son, brother, ..." and OP refers in his question to his partner as "her". There's some misgendering and not-so-subtle (mis-)gender stereotyping going on in some of the preceding responses.
posted by heatherlogan at 7:15 AM on May 15, 2022 [54 favorites]
posted by heatherlogan at 7:15 AM on May 15, 2022 [54 favorites]
Wow, whoops, sorry about the gender missteps/assumptions! I was not always following which pronouns referred to the partner but on re-read yeah, my assumptions definitely colored my response. My advice still stands, though!
posted by mskyle at 7:27 AM on May 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by mskyle at 7:27 AM on May 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
If my father had Parkinson's, I'd start every phone conversation with "what's shaking?" and vice versa. We'd laugh.
These issues are all ones you should be talking to your spouse about, not us. Couples therapy can get your communication working again; it worked for me.
posted by flimflam at 7:39 AM on May 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
These issues are all ones you should be talking to your spouse about, not us. Couples therapy can get your communication working again; it worked for me.
posted by flimflam at 7:39 AM on May 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
ok, so two things are happening here.
1. your partner made a joke in bad taste, which you found supremely unfunny, and
2. for ~20 years your partner hasn't verbally or with actions expressed concern for your family, despite you doing so for their family.
These aren't the same thing. One's easy: "Hey that joke you cracked this morning? That was rude and thoughtless. My dad's declining health isn't hilarious to me and I'd appreciate it if you could be a lot more sensitive."
Two's a bigger deal because it's been going on for 20 years. On that one, you might benefit from a counselor to help them change course. But you can try telling them exactly what you feel and what you need from them. "It hurts me that after everything I've done for your family, you don't even ask about my dad, or even ask me how I'm handling this. I need you to act a whole lot more interested and a whole lot more kind."
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:02 AM on May 15, 2022 [26 favorites]
1. your partner made a joke in bad taste, which you found supremely unfunny, and
2. for ~20 years your partner hasn't verbally or with actions expressed concern for your family, despite you doing so for their family.
These aren't the same thing. One's easy: "Hey that joke you cracked this morning? That was rude and thoughtless. My dad's declining health isn't hilarious to me and I'd appreciate it if you could be a lot more sensitive."
Two's a bigger deal because it's been going on for 20 years. On that one, you might benefit from a counselor to help them change course. But you can try telling them exactly what you feel and what you need from them. "It hurts me that after everything I've done for your family, you don't even ask about my dad, or even ask me how I'm handling this. I need you to act a whole lot more interested and a whole lot more kind."
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:02 AM on May 15, 2022 [26 favorites]
Best answer: Based on your whole description I understand your greater concern to be about a disparity in attention and support between the needs of your respective families.
My suspicion is that your partner's black humour felt especially hurtful because it came at a time when that care inequality felt heightened (i.e. while visiting her mother-in-law). I know that most days I could make a joke about some aspects of my mother-in-law's dementia but there are certain times of stress that would be too much for my husband. As he often forgets / neglects to tell me where he is at emotionally I sometimes don't know if that humour is timely or not. My own exposure to stress can also increase my tendency to use black humour.
Are you familiar with the idea of Ask / Guess culture (should I write MeFi's own here?). Just based on the structure of your question I guess if you might be more of a guesser?
I am mostly a guesser, so I hope you understand that the following is my guessing from the ideas you gave above and my own experiences with family suffering from long term, deteriorating illness.
It sounds like your partner has been very proactive about asking for particular types of support regarding her family's needs since your father in law's death. If I follow the context above correctly, your father's diagnosis came in 2021, in the months following her step-dad's death? That timing and the feeling of being blindsided following your dad's diagnosis suggests that you are now coming to terms with the implications of that diagnosis and prognosis for your family and personallly and that it is now feels more appropriate to talk about your needs. Maybe you've primarily been hinting about what kind of support you and your side of the family needs up until now.
Something has obviously changed. My suggestion is that you work out what support you and your family need in the short term and going forward and also what type of energy you can continue giving to her and her side of the family. How you best and most clearly discuss this issue with your spouse is another discussion entirely but working out your needs is where I think you should go from here. Speaking to a mental health professional may be helpful for you too as you work things out. Do not have this discussion while you are visiting your mother in law!
Good luck and put on your own oxygen mask as required. (Dark humour, my dad passed from pulmonary fibrosis a long slow lung illness ;-))
posted by pipstar at 8:31 AM on May 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
My suspicion is that your partner's black humour felt especially hurtful because it came at a time when that care inequality felt heightened (i.e. while visiting her mother-in-law). I know that most days I could make a joke about some aspects of my mother-in-law's dementia but there are certain times of stress that would be too much for my husband. As he often forgets / neglects to tell me where he is at emotionally I sometimes don't know if that humour is timely or not. My own exposure to stress can also increase my tendency to use black humour.
Are you familiar with the idea of Ask / Guess culture (should I write MeFi's own here?). Just based on the structure of your question I guess if you might be more of a guesser?
I am mostly a guesser, so I hope you understand that the following is my guessing from the ideas you gave above and my own experiences with family suffering from long term, deteriorating illness.
It sounds like your partner has been very proactive about asking for particular types of support regarding her family's needs since your father in law's death. If I follow the context above correctly, your father's diagnosis came in 2021, in the months following her step-dad's death? That timing and the feeling of being blindsided following your dad's diagnosis suggests that you are now coming to terms with the implications of that diagnosis and prognosis for your family and personallly and that it is now feels more appropriate to talk about your needs. Maybe you've primarily been hinting about what kind of support you and your side of the family needs up until now.
Something has obviously changed. My suggestion is that you work out what support you and your family need in the short term and going forward and also what type of energy you can continue giving to her and her side of the family. How you best and most clearly discuss this issue with your spouse is another discussion entirely but working out your needs is where I think you should go from here. Speaking to a mental health professional may be helpful for you too as you work things out. Do not have this discussion while you are visiting your mother in law!
Good luck and put on your own oxygen mask as required. (Dark humour, my dad passed from pulmonary fibrosis a long slow lung illness ;-))
posted by pipstar at 8:31 AM on May 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
It seems like there’s a real asymmetry in communication. Your partner seems to be consistently communicating how she feels and what she needs. You seem to be expecting her to read your mind and not communicating those things at all.
It’s time to sit down and say “I am very impacted by my dad’s diagnosis and I need you to be checking in with me about it. I’m going to try and be more proactive about saying how I’m doing and the kind of care I need around it, but I’m not used to communicating emotionally this way and I would appreciate your prompting and your compassion and understanding and kindness here.”
I do have sympathy for you feeling taken for granted, but no one on metafilter can change that. Only you and your partner can change that. I think for the immediate situation you should say something like “I woke up still really unsettled and taken aback by what you said last night, can we make sometime to talk about it today?” Because I don’t think she has any idea and as you can see, a lot of people deal with scary health things through dark humor. You have to be the one to set that boundary and talk about your feelings around it. Otherwise she’s never going to know, and it’s not really fair to expect her to. I’m really sorry about your dad and the lack of support you are feeling right now.
posted by Bottlecap at 8:36 AM on May 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
It’s time to sit down and say “I am very impacted by my dad’s diagnosis and I need you to be checking in with me about it. I’m going to try and be more proactive about saying how I’m doing and the kind of care I need around it, but I’m not used to communicating emotionally this way and I would appreciate your prompting and your compassion and understanding and kindness here.”
I do have sympathy for you feeling taken for granted, but no one on metafilter can change that. Only you and your partner can change that. I think for the immediate situation you should say something like “I woke up still really unsettled and taken aback by what you said last night, can we make sometime to talk about it today?” Because I don’t think she has any idea and as you can see, a lot of people deal with scary health things through dark humor. You have to be the one to set that boundary and talk about your feelings around it. Otherwise she’s never going to know, and it’s not really fair to expect her to. I’m really sorry about your dad and the lack of support you are feeling right now.
posted by Bottlecap at 8:36 AM on May 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
Was that an unusual type of joke for your partner? I was more surprised to hear that you were shocked/thought it was extremely unacceptable than by the comment itself. I don't think it was funny either, but it's something that would make me roll my eyes, not be so upset that I had to leave. You definitely need to tell your partner clearly how it made you feel and ask her not to say things like that, because it's not something that I think everyone would realize is obviously wrong. It is strange that she wouldn't realize how you would respond after so long together (and also strange if it was out of character for her).
posted by pinochiette at 8:37 AM on May 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by pinochiette at 8:37 AM on May 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
My dad’s dementia-related decline has gotten much worse this year, and sometimes I feel so much grief over the situation that there just isn’t any “right” thing my husband can say or do. That being said, I’m kind of surprised by how dismissive people are being here about your partner’s comment as I think it’s a rather shitty thing to say to someone who’s worried about their dad’s condition.
I think you should talk to your partner about how much pain you’re in right now (and make no mistake, you are clearly in a lot of pain) and that you need more check-ins and empathy around the situation with your dad. Don’t keep score, don’t try to win a “sad family shit going on” contest, just tell her what you need. That’s what has worked for me.
posted by cakelite at 9:05 AM on May 15, 2022 [13 favorites]
I think you should talk to your partner about how much pain you’re in right now (and make no mistake, you are clearly in a lot of pain) and that you need more check-ins and empathy around the situation with your dad. Don’t keep score, don’t try to win a “sad family shit going on” contest, just tell her what you need. That’s what has worked for me.
posted by cakelite at 9:05 AM on May 15, 2022 [13 favorites]
Best answer: At best, that joke was thoughtless, and nobody likes it when their partner is thoughtless. Even if gallows humor is part of your relationship, to meet a partner's fear their parent is depressed with a cheap joke about that parent's disease is...well, a cheap shot, that anyone should at least understand might fail the moment. The fact your partner responded to your shock/hurt with "What's the big deal?" isn't great.
But–and this doesn't excuse your partner–it sounds like she's been through a lot since 2020. And so, assuming this struck you as generally unlike her, I would approach this by giving her the benefit of the doubt that her step dad's suicide and whatever the "harrowing pandemic circumstances" in her family entailed, have perhaps contributed to her being a bit more self-absorbed of late. Which is to say, I wonder how much of the problem is that you both, like many people, have absorbed some real dark shit in the last two years, perhaps without fully processing it, and now it's coming out in a variety of unpleasant ways.
So I agree with those saying to focus less on the joke, but more on what the joke is a symptom of - this larger imbalance, that you are not feeling emotionally cared for, how you are both currently navigating the stress of both your parents, and so on.
posted by coffeecat at 9:24 AM on May 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
But–and this doesn't excuse your partner–it sounds like she's been through a lot since 2020. And so, assuming this struck you as generally unlike her, I would approach this by giving her the benefit of the doubt that her step dad's suicide and whatever the "harrowing pandemic circumstances" in her family entailed, have perhaps contributed to her being a bit more self-absorbed of late. Which is to say, I wonder how much of the problem is that you both, like many people, have absorbed some real dark shit in the last two years, perhaps without fully processing it, and now it's coming out in a variety of unpleasant ways.
So I agree with those saying to focus less on the joke, but more on what the joke is a symptom of - this larger imbalance, that you are not feeling emotionally cared for, how you are both currently navigating the stress of both your parents, and so on.
posted by coffeecat at 9:24 AM on May 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
I am another person who thinks that your partner's comment wasn't obviously unacceptable, and if I had made it I wouldn't know that it had affected you that badly unless you actually clearly told me. I often use gallows humour to express my support and love.
However, the balance of support and emotional labour that you describe is obviously unacceptable and needs to change. This is much more important than one comment that did not land well, and I can completely see why that comment has built itself into bigger proportions in your mind. I would recommend asking, clearly and explicitly, for what you need from your partner if you haven't already. If you are a guess person you may feel like you shouldn't have to ask, but this is profoundly unhelpful. Your partner has asked for things from you and you have given them. So, asking works. You probably need to scale back the support you give to your partner's family too, and given everything you describe it would be best to be clear and explicit about what that means rather than assuming they your partner will 'just realise' that you need to.
If you cannot get the support you need from your partner, then look for support from other friends at this time. Because it sounds like you really need the support.
posted by plonkee at 9:56 AM on May 15, 2022 [7 favorites]
However, the balance of support and emotional labour that you describe is obviously unacceptable and needs to change. This is much more important than one comment that did not land well, and I can completely see why that comment has built itself into bigger proportions in your mind. I would recommend asking, clearly and explicitly, for what you need from your partner if you haven't already. If you are a guess person you may feel like you shouldn't have to ask, but this is profoundly unhelpful. Your partner has asked for things from you and you have given them. So, asking works. You probably need to scale back the support you give to your partner's family too, and given everything you describe it would be best to be clear and explicit about what that means rather than assuming they your partner will 'just realise' that you need to.
If you cannot get the support you need from your partner, then look for support from other friends at this time. Because it sounds like you really need the support.
posted by plonkee at 9:56 AM on May 15, 2022 [7 favorites]
I don’t think we should assume that the asker never employs or welcomes gallows humor, that’s kind of what human beings do to cope in these situations. The question is isn’t whether it is ever ok to make jokes about shitty situations, it’s that in this case the joke felt rather tasteless and mean-spirited to the asker.
posted by cakelite at 10:01 AM on May 15, 2022
posted by cakelite at 10:01 AM on May 15, 2022
It sounds like the straw that broke the camel's back to me. Your partner asked a lot from you and this incident is throwing into sharp relief your perception that the relationship isn't reciprocal.
posted by bleep at 10:09 AM on May 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by bleep at 10:09 AM on May 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
Best answer: I think the comment itself was one of those poor taste jokes that are sometimes the exact right flavor of dark humor for a moment, but joke-tellers would be better served remembering that pretty much all jokes have stakes and you should be making choices about risk when you deploy one. As Scalzi once said, the failure mode of clever is asshole. Another day, another set of circumstances, it might have landed different. (I certainly can think of moments in my past where I deployed the dark humor and it landed great and I only realized later that I was certainly walking a tightrope and it could have easily gone the other way.)
But this failure is also a dam-breaker moment for you. You have a lot of pent-up un-aired unhappy feelings, you have been doing a lot of emotional labor and labor-labor and heavy care-work for everybody else, and you are not getting that level of effort back from your partner (or anybody else). And that means that in this moment their primary contribution is...a poor-taste joke.
That fucking hurts.
I think your feelings are an indicator that some things need to change. You are out of resilience and you need more support from your partner than you are getting. Yes it would be nice if they would just figure that out and do it, and you can if you want have an initial conversation that is just that: your joke landed terribly yesterday, that's a joke for someone who's stepping way up with support, you are not, please figure it out.
Does that mean you're not going to have to have a second conversation where you explain what support looks and feels like to you? You probably do. I do some grief-support volunteering and we often get asked "what do I do for my person who is going through it" and my primary answer is "you have to ask them, and they may not know but you have to keep talking until they're able to articulate it, and in the meantime you listen and you ask questions designed to help figure it out." Because what I need in this moment is maybe not at all what you need, everybody has their own framework that translates to support. And I know you've probably been modeling what you need in the things you yourself have done for others, but some people can't extrapolate like that.
So it is more efficient to tell rather than show sometimes. It's hard work; it is reasonable to hope that your partner once alerted will at least be eager to do better even if they don't instinctively know what to do, but it's possible there's disappointment awaiting you there. And if that's the case, you may have some decisions to make.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:10 AM on May 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
But this failure is also a dam-breaker moment for you. You have a lot of pent-up un-aired unhappy feelings, you have been doing a lot of emotional labor and labor-labor and heavy care-work for everybody else, and you are not getting that level of effort back from your partner (or anybody else). And that means that in this moment their primary contribution is...a poor-taste joke.
That fucking hurts.
I think your feelings are an indicator that some things need to change. You are out of resilience and you need more support from your partner than you are getting. Yes it would be nice if they would just figure that out and do it, and you can if you want have an initial conversation that is just that: your joke landed terribly yesterday, that's a joke for someone who's stepping way up with support, you are not, please figure it out.
Does that mean you're not going to have to have a second conversation where you explain what support looks and feels like to you? You probably do. I do some grief-support volunteering and we often get asked "what do I do for my person who is going through it" and my primary answer is "you have to ask them, and they may not know but you have to keep talking until they're able to articulate it, and in the meantime you listen and you ask questions designed to help figure it out." Because what I need in this moment is maybe not at all what you need, everybody has their own framework that translates to support. And I know you've probably been modeling what you need in the things you yourself have done for others, but some people can't extrapolate like that.
So it is more efficient to tell rather than show sometimes. It's hard work; it is reasonable to hope that your partner once alerted will at least be eager to do better even if they don't instinctively know what to do, but it's possible there's disappointment awaiting you there. And if that's the case, you may have some decisions to make.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:10 AM on May 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
It sounds to me like you have been stewing for a long time and at the first possible opportunity, you burst out. This is 100% understandable! You're dealing with a lot. But please be aware of your responsibility in this dynamic - your partner's (imho quite amusing) question was only the spark. They may not have known that you were carrying around a giant load of TNT.
posted by nkknkk at 11:45 AM on May 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by nkknkk at 11:45 AM on May 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Some people may say it was acceptable, others not. Only you can say what is unacceptable to you.
What matters I think is that your partner should have a pretty good idea of what would be unacceptable to you. It sounds like they really put their foot in their mouth here.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:12 PM on May 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
What matters I think is that your partner should have a pretty good idea of what would be unacceptable to you. It sounds like they really put their foot in their mouth here.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:12 PM on May 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I read somewhere (maybe here?) that "the failure mode of 'clever' is 'asshole'." When you can be level and even a little detached, I'd suggest being really plain with your partner about how this landed with you and why, and gauge your further response based on how they react to that.
posted by ersatzkat at 12:30 PM on May 15, 2022
posted by ersatzkat at 12:30 PM on May 15, 2022
I'm no expert by any means, but it sounds to me like there are some communication issues going on here.
“What’s the big deal?” to which I responded, “I guess it’s better you said it to me and nobody else.” And to that, no apology again, no expressed remorse, but the response to that was “well obviously.”
I'm completely sympathetic to what is going on in your life, but "I guess it's better you said it to me and nobody else" sounds a little sarcastic, because I suspect the way you really feel is that it would be better if they hadn't said it to anyone at all. Sarcasm usually doesn't invite positive communication. Instead, unfortunately, it can tend to incite snarky responses like, "Well, obviously." I wonder if a few sessions with a counselor would help you two communicate in a more direct, productive way.
posted by SageTrail at 12:45 PM on May 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
“What’s the big deal?” to which I responded, “I guess it’s better you said it to me and nobody else.” And to that, no apology again, no expressed remorse, but the response to that was “well obviously.”
I'm completely sympathetic to what is going on in your life, but "I guess it's better you said it to me and nobody else" sounds a little sarcastic, because I suspect the way you really feel is that it would be better if they hadn't said it to anyone at all. Sarcasm usually doesn't invite positive communication. Instead, unfortunately, it can tend to incite snarky responses like, "Well, obviously." I wonder if a few sessions with a counselor would help you two communicate in a more direct, productive way.
posted by SageTrail at 12:45 PM on May 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
For what it's worth: I find the joke incredibly shitty at best and utterly unacceptable at worst. And I believe the circumstances make it an instance of 'at worst'.
Basically, you were in a very obvious ‘bid for connection’ situation and she turned away from it – first by ignoring the sensitivity of the situation with an insensitive joke (which can happen) and then, when you communicated your hurt, they dug in. This is an awful thing to do in a relationship! They more or less communicated that they can't be arsed with your problems.
Contra other posters here, I think that a. you would expect your average person to respond with more empathy to ‘My dad with Parkinson is depressed’, never mind your partner, b. a partner should know you well* enough after one decade to know what kind of support you need when distressed, or at the very least to ask about what you need in the moment if they can’t figure it out, and c. that you have, in fact, already communicated that you needed more in your situation than a stupid joke.
I don’t particularly have advice but just wanted you to know that there are at least some people out there who would, indeed, find the joke at best in poor taste and certainly not something you’d expect a partner to dig in their heels about. Additionally, from the way you have described the situation, I feel you are treated quite poorly in your relationship if you are expected to give, give, give, and never receive.
* By which I don't mean 'Should know how you would want them to react in most situations' but rather 'Should be able to read your face, your body language, your actions well enough by now to know when you are upset, sad, distressed, etc, and should be able to act on that insight'.
posted by doggod at 1:17 PM on May 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
Basically, you were in a very obvious ‘bid for connection’ situation and she turned away from it – first by ignoring the sensitivity of the situation with an insensitive joke (which can happen) and then, when you communicated your hurt, they dug in. This is an awful thing to do in a relationship! They more or less communicated that they can't be arsed with your problems.
Contra other posters here, I think that a. you would expect your average person to respond with more empathy to ‘My dad with Parkinson is depressed’, never mind your partner, b. a partner should know you well* enough after one decade to know what kind of support you need when distressed, or at the very least to ask about what you need in the moment if they can’t figure it out, and c. that you have, in fact, already communicated that you needed more in your situation than a stupid joke.
I don’t particularly have advice but just wanted you to know that there are at least some people out there who would, indeed, find the joke at best in poor taste and certainly not something you’d expect a partner to dig in their heels about. Additionally, from the way you have described the situation, I feel you are treated quite poorly in your relationship if you are expected to give, give, give, and never receive.
* By which I don't mean 'Should know how you would want them to react in most situations' but rather 'Should be able to read your face, your body language, your actions well enough by now to know when you are upset, sad, distressed, etc, and should be able to act on that insight'.
posted by doggod at 1:17 PM on May 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
Best answer: It sounds like you're coping with a lot both at this exact moment and in the long term. I'm really sorry everything probably feels so hard right now.
This comment would have landed fine in my relationship, where we cope with our own and each other's chronic illnesses with gallows humor - but I assume if that context existed for your partnership, you'd have included that information. So in the context of your relationship and the stress you are under, it definitely sounds like a really misguided statement that landed really badly.
It's okay if what she said was categorically unacceptable for you, even if other people feel differently. You absolutely have every right to tell your partner that, to ask for an apology, and to use this as a springboard for a broader talk about the kind of support you need right now. It sounds like you're really going to have to get specific about what you need, as your and your partner's expectations/approaches sound pretty mismatched right now.
I also think it would be fine if part of this expectation resetting includes dialing back the support you give to your partner's family right now. You need some of those emotional resources for yourself and your own parents, and you're allowed to need to step back a bit after two years of intense emotional support now that your own situation has changed.
posted by Stacey at 1:30 PM on May 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
This comment would have landed fine in my relationship, where we cope with our own and each other's chronic illnesses with gallows humor - but I assume if that context existed for your partnership, you'd have included that information. So in the context of your relationship and the stress you are under, it definitely sounds like a really misguided statement that landed really badly.
It's okay if what she said was categorically unacceptable for you, even if other people feel differently. You absolutely have every right to tell your partner that, to ask for an apology, and to use this as a springboard for a broader talk about the kind of support you need right now. It sounds like you're really going to have to get specific about what you need, as your and your partner's expectations/approaches sound pretty mismatched right now.
I also think it would be fine if part of this expectation resetting includes dialing back the support you give to your partner's family right now. You need some of those emotional resources for yourself and your own parents, and you're allowed to need to step back a bit after two years of intense emotional support now that your own situation has changed.
posted by Stacey at 1:30 PM on May 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
You are upset about your dad. All bets are off. Though you might have issues about the ongoing family dynamics, your relationship with your partner is an asset. Tell him how upset you are about your dad. Get comfort from him. Ask for that. Look inside yourself about your basic state. Self comfort as well , but get the good stuff from your relationship, right now, don't mix your dad's diagnosis, with your home front.
posted by Oyéah at 6:05 PM on May 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 6:05 PM on May 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Not evident I was upset
when you are upset with your partner, the best thing to do is to make it evident to her that you are upset. if it is not evident you are upset, she will not know that you are upset.
similarly, when she or anyone else asks you "what's the big deal" about something, the best thing to do in response is to tell her what the big deal is.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:58 PM on May 15, 2022 [12 favorites]
when you are upset with your partner, the best thing to do is to make it evident to her that you are upset. if it is not evident you are upset, she will not know that you are upset.
similarly, when she or anyone else asks you "what's the big deal" about something, the best thing to do in response is to tell her what the big deal is.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:58 PM on May 15, 2022 [12 favorites]
For the comment, I think others have kind of covered that.
For the situation:
Wrapped up in my emotions is this:
-I rarely get asked how I am doing with my dad’s diagnosis. It doesn’t seem to be a concern, despite me mentioning new updates, circumstances, observations, etc
Have you specifically asked your partner to ask you about it? For me, quite honestly, if you were mentioning updates I would assume you were giving me all the information you wanted to discuss.
-My father-in-law (partner’s step-dad, entered the picture later in my partner’s life) died by suicide in February 2020, and I have been on call and available for every emergency from that incident from then on for my mother-in-law, and extremely available emotionally to my partner and mother-in-law at all times amongst harrowing pandemic circumstances, carried a lot of the emotional labor when with their mom, too
Have you mentioned that you need to dial back on this in light of the new situation? Have you two discussed what your long-term plan is to support your mother-in-law and gradually helping her connect with other supports?
-My partner asked me to be extra good about reaching out to their mom, which I’ve done. My partner hasn’t done that in the wake of my father’s diagnosis to either him or my mom or my siblings despite knowing them for almost 20 years
Have you asked clearly? The reason I ask is here you specifically mention that your partner asked, which indicates to me that they didn't expect you to "just know" to do it. They might not know you are waiting for this to be done.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:47 AM on May 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
For the situation:
Wrapped up in my emotions is this:
-I rarely get asked how I am doing with my dad’s diagnosis. It doesn’t seem to be a concern, despite me mentioning new updates, circumstances, observations, etc
Have you specifically asked your partner to ask you about it? For me, quite honestly, if you were mentioning updates I would assume you were giving me all the information you wanted to discuss.
-My father-in-law (partner’s step-dad, entered the picture later in my partner’s life) died by suicide in February 2020, and I have been on call and available for every emergency from that incident from then on for my mother-in-law, and extremely available emotionally to my partner and mother-in-law at all times amongst harrowing pandemic circumstances, carried a lot of the emotional labor when with their mom, too
Have you mentioned that you need to dial back on this in light of the new situation? Have you two discussed what your long-term plan is to support your mother-in-law and gradually helping her connect with other supports?
-My partner asked me to be extra good about reaching out to their mom, which I’ve done. My partner hasn’t done that in the wake of my father’s diagnosis to either him or my mom or my siblings despite knowing them for almost 20 years
Have you asked clearly? The reason I ask is here you specifically mention that your partner asked, which indicates to me that they didn't expect you to "just know" to do it. They might not know you are waiting for this to be done.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:47 AM on May 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you, all. My partner apologized immediately once we got on the road and we talked about it on the drive back. Wrapped up in a lot of this is all the stress of some things happening with their mom and family (and mine) and it’s just been a lot, as it has for all of us.
We are going to take a look at counseling just to get in synch better with stressful moments because we don’t see that slowing down with our families.
Can’t thank you all enough for just helping me to take a pause and think about it. Not usually my style but I knew I needed some input and your advice was much needed.
posted by glaucon at 10:51 AM on May 17, 2022 [8 favorites]
We are going to take a look at counseling just to get in synch better with stressful moments because we don’t see that slowing down with our families.
Can’t thank you all enough for just helping me to take a pause and think about it. Not usually my style but I knew I needed some input and your advice was much needed.
posted by glaucon at 10:51 AM on May 17, 2022 [8 favorites]
the comment itself could have been a welcome bit of dark humor in a different situation. To me it's obvious and immature, but probably some people (even people with dads with Parkinson's or Parkinson's themselves) would find it funny.
Just as one data point, a lot of the humor on the short-lived sitcom "The Michael J Fox Show" was like this. Michael J Fox, the executive producer and lead actor, famously has Parkinson's, as does the character he portrays in the show.
posted by JimN2TAW at 6:06 AM on June 17, 2022
Just as one data point, a lot of the humor on the short-lived sitcom "The Michael J Fox Show" was like this. Michael J Fox, the executive producer and lead actor, famously has Parkinson's, as does the character he portrays in the show.
posted by JimN2TAW at 6:06 AM on June 17, 2022
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posted by glaucon at 6:34 AM on May 15, 2022 [1 favorite]