Bathroom exhaust fan not working, act 2.
April 13, 2022 6:13 PM Subscribe
Yesterday, I posted an Ask about my bathroom exhaust fan not working. Got an update, wanted to do a new post because the original question is already buried down from yesterday. TL;DR version for this question: replaced, not fixed, was told there's no duct line out and that it's just a fan — same goes for all units. Am thoroughly confused.
Okay, so my Ask yesterday talked about my bathroom exhaust fan at my new unit not working properly. It didn't filter/clean smells nor de-fog my bathroom after my shower. My previous unit had zero problems of this sort. Per the advice of that Ask, I took a video of the unit not sucking up paper and prepared to talk to the maintenance crew about this.
Today, maintenance came over. I was told that none of the units in this building (which is new-ish, mind you; built around 10 years ago) has bathroom exhaust/suction fans—all the fans in this building in each bathroom are actually just fans. The maintenance guy said there was no duct line that would take the air outside. I asked him how that was possible because in my other unit, the bathroom had absolutely no problem cleaning the smelly air and quickly de-fogging. He, himself said he wasn't sure and that he was still learning about all the quirks, and admitted this building was different than most other buildings he had worked at.
He replaced the fan, saying that the other one was older, and that this one sounded louder and was better/more powerful. (Wish I could verify, but I'm Deaf so can't hear.) He said that the fan would spin fast and get rid of the steam/fog from the shower, and smells (even though it doesn't actually go OUT or get taken outside anywhere). I was dubious, but had no choice. He did emphasize that both the old and new fans weren't suction, and as such, wouldn't suck in any air.
Sure enough, tonight with the new fan, the exact same problems persisted — foggy AF after my shower, smells not going away. In fact, my bathroom actually smelled a teeny bit musty after my shower tonight.
I am at a loss. I am not sure what's going on here. It makes zero sense that: 1) this new-ish building doesn't have any bathroom fans that exhaust/suction and go outside; 2) my old unit had zero issues in the bathroom. Exact same building, exact same floor plan, built at the same time.
My questions:
1) Aren't there local (DC) codes that require exhaust fans in bathrooms, especially for newer buildings built after like the 70s or something? In other words, is this technically "against the law"? (FWIW, my lease emphasizes using the bathroom exhaust fan when showering/using the bathtub to prevent mold growth.) Emphasis mine.
2) Is this something that is particular to my unit, and the maintenance guy was confused or something, and that my old unit (and other units) DO have proper exhaust/suction fans, and mine happens to be a "lemon" unit somehow?
3) What should I do? I feel SO awful because the building management was gracious enough to allow me a transfer with waived transfer/amenity/notice fees. OTOH, I am concerned because this could allow for mold growth (if the bathroom isn't exhausting/cleaning properly, especially as there's no window), and it's not comfortable using the bathroom because of the smell. (Damn you, sensitive sense of smell.) I hate conflict, I hate confrontations, I hate having to seem like a pest, but this is concerning (especially the musty smell I smelled tonight).
4) Should I get a dehumidifier for the bathroom? If so, which unit do you recommend that's cheap and designed for smallllll spaces (my bathroom is about 5-6 feet wide and maybe 10-12 feet long, and 9-10 feet high for the ceilings)? I really don't want to have to shore up the money for something that should be included, especially I'm paying more for my rent, but if this is the only solution, please help point me in the right direction.
A picture of the fan in my bathroom, if it helps any.
Thank you.
Okay, so my Ask yesterday talked about my bathroom exhaust fan at my new unit not working properly. It didn't filter/clean smells nor de-fog my bathroom after my shower. My previous unit had zero problems of this sort. Per the advice of that Ask, I took a video of the unit not sucking up paper and prepared to talk to the maintenance crew about this.
Today, maintenance came over. I was told that none of the units in this building (which is new-ish, mind you; built around 10 years ago) has bathroom exhaust/suction fans—all the fans in this building in each bathroom are actually just fans. The maintenance guy said there was no duct line that would take the air outside. I asked him how that was possible because in my other unit, the bathroom had absolutely no problem cleaning the smelly air and quickly de-fogging. He, himself said he wasn't sure and that he was still learning about all the quirks, and admitted this building was different than most other buildings he had worked at.
He replaced the fan, saying that the other one was older, and that this one sounded louder and was better/more powerful. (Wish I could verify, but I'm Deaf so can't hear.) He said that the fan would spin fast and get rid of the steam/fog from the shower, and smells (even though it doesn't actually go OUT or get taken outside anywhere). I was dubious, but had no choice. He did emphasize that both the old and new fans weren't suction, and as such, wouldn't suck in any air.
Sure enough, tonight with the new fan, the exact same problems persisted — foggy AF after my shower, smells not going away. In fact, my bathroom actually smelled a teeny bit musty after my shower tonight.
I am at a loss. I am not sure what's going on here. It makes zero sense that: 1) this new-ish building doesn't have any bathroom fans that exhaust/suction and go outside; 2) my old unit had zero issues in the bathroom. Exact same building, exact same floor plan, built at the same time.
My questions:
1) Aren't there local (DC) codes that require exhaust fans in bathrooms, especially for newer buildings built after like the 70s or something? In other words, is this technically "against the law"? (FWIW, my lease emphasizes using the bathroom exhaust fan when showering/using the bathtub to prevent mold growth.) Emphasis mine.
2) Is this something that is particular to my unit, and the maintenance guy was confused or something, and that my old unit (and other units) DO have proper exhaust/suction fans, and mine happens to be a "lemon" unit somehow?
3) What should I do? I feel SO awful because the building management was gracious enough to allow me a transfer with waived transfer/amenity/notice fees. OTOH, I am concerned because this could allow for mold growth (if the bathroom isn't exhausting/cleaning properly, especially as there's no window), and it's not comfortable using the bathroom because of the smell. (Damn you, sensitive sense of smell.) I hate conflict, I hate confrontations, I hate having to seem like a pest, but this is concerning (especially the musty smell I smelled tonight).
4) Should I get a dehumidifier for the bathroom? If so, which unit do you recommend that's cheap and designed for smallllll spaces (my bathroom is about 5-6 feet wide and maybe 10-12 feet long, and 9-10 feet high for the ceilings)? I really don't want to have to shore up the money for something that should be included, especially I'm paying more for my rent, but if this is the only solution, please help point me in the right direction.
A picture of the fan in my bathroom, if it helps any.
Thank you.
I don’t know about codes, but if I were a landlord I would want to know this because having no real fan will end up with my valuable property needing expensive fixes later.
posted by kerf at 6:43 PM on April 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by kerf at 6:43 PM on April 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
The International Building Code (adopted in some version in most US states) requires a residential bathroom to be exhausted to the exterior. I’m pretty sure that’s not new.
posted by Kriesa at 7:08 PM on April 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Kriesa at 7:08 PM on April 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
That really makes no sense at all, since all that moisture or air has to go SOMEWHERE, and they will condense and leave a puddle SOMEWHERE that need to be drained...
But that's not exactly your problem to solve. Your part, IMHO, is to simply write a letter to the management, highlighting the clause in the contract, and what the maintenance guy told you, and periodically (every 3-6 months) poke for an answer. Then they can't blame you as you've been mailing them reminders for X months.
Not sure what you can do for immediate or near-term relief though, without knowing where's the outside wall and how much of the moisture can you get out the bathroom door with an air circulator or dehumidifier (not that I encourage you to buy one or the other).
posted by kschang at 7:08 PM on April 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
But that's not exactly your problem to solve. Your part, IMHO, is to simply write a letter to the management, highlighting the clause in the contract, and what the maintenance guy told you, and periodically (every 3-6 months) poke for an answer. Then they can't blame you as you've been mailing them reminders for X months.
Not sure what you can do for immediate or near-term relief though, without knowing where's the outside wall and how much of the moisture can you get out the bathroom door with an air circulator or dehumidifier (not that I encourage you to buy one or the other).
posted by kschang at 7:08 PM on April 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
FWIW, my lease emphasizes using the bathroom exhaust fan when showering/using the bathtub to prevent mold growth.
Then tell them that your exhaust fan isn't working, you're concerned about the mold, you want to be in compliance with your lease, and this apartment isn't like the other one. Nothing is going to mold immediately. Get something to deal with the bathroom smells in the meantime (and don't bother talking to them about that aspect, they don't care and it confuses the main issue) and let them figure out a way to make it work. Your deafness is not their concern except that since you can't hear this fan you really should have some other way of verifying that it's working (this is their issue, not yours) and if it's not ventilating the bathroom... what else is there? Don't talk to them at all about building codes or law-breaking unless you have literally no other option.
I'd be polite but firm. They should make this right.
posted by jessamyn at 7:10 PM on April 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
Then tell them that your exhaust fan isn't working, you're concerned about the mold, you want to be in compliance with your lease, and this apartment isn't like the other one. Nothing is going to mold immediately. Get something to deal with the bathroom smells in the meantime (and don't bother talking to them about that aspect, they don't care and it confuses the main issue) and let them figure out a way to make it work. Your deafness is not their concern except that since you can't hear this fan you really should have some other way of verifying that it's working (this is their issue, not yours) and if it's not ventilating the bathroom... what else is there? Don't talk to them at all about building codes or law-breaking unless you have literally no other option.
I'd be polite but firm. They should make this right.
posted by jessamyn at 7:10 PM on April 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
I am an Architect, I am not your Architect.
The International Building Code which almost all states use, states that a bathroom a fan that exhausts air to the exterior. It does this by referencing the International Mechanical Code. Se IBC 2018 Para. 1202.5.2.1
If it does not exhaust to the exterior, there will be moisture issues in the building whereever it is going, like mold growing above the ceiling.
Large multifamily units fall under the IBC rather than the International Residential Code, but this requirement is the same in both.
posted by rudd135 at 7:11 PM on April 13, 2022 [11 favorites]
The International Building Code which almost all states use, states that a bathroom a fan that exhausts air to the exterior. It does this by referencing the International Mechanical Code. Se IBC 2018 Para. 1202.5.2.1
If it does not exhaust to the exterior, there will be moisture issues in the building whereever it is going, like mold growing above the ceiling.
Large multifamily units fall under the IBC rather than the International Residential Code, but this requirement is the same in both.
posted by rudd135 at 7:11 PM on April 13, 2022 [11 favorites]
He replaced the fan, saying that the other one was older, and that this one sounded louder and was better/more powerful. (Wish I could verify, but I'm Deaf so can't hear.) He said that the fan would spin fast and get rid of the steam/fog from the shower, and smells (even though it doesn't actually go OUT or get taken outside anywhere). I was dubious, but had no choice. He did emphasize that both the old and new fans weren't suction, and as such, wouldn't suck in any air.
This is so strange I think we have to consider the possibility that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about or is choosing to tell you a story.
I wish I could see the picture you so thoughtfully provided, but Imgur won’t show me any pictures. However, if you could see actual blades as he installed it, the fan is probably not a vent fan, but if you could see a slotted cylinder, usually called a 'squirrel cage', it probably is a vent fan, whether or not it’s actually venting anything.
posted by jamjam at 10:32 PM on April 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is so strange I think we have to consider the possibility that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about or is choosing to tell you a story.
I wish I could see the picture you so thoughtfully provided, but Imgur won’t show me any pictures. However, if you could see actual blades as he installed it, the fan is probably not a vent fan, but if you could see a slotted cylinder, usually called a 'squirrel cage', it probably is a vent fan, whether or not it’s actually venting anything.
posted by jamjam at 10:32 PM on April 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
This doesn’t solve the full scope of your problem, but we got a mini dehumidifier for our tiny dc bathroom and it works pretty well. Plan to move eventually and in the meantime document, document, document so they won’t have any grounds to try to withhold your security deposit for bathroom mold. Make them come in every time the grout gets gross and needs replacing.
posted by donut_princess at 3:49 AM on April 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by donut_princess at 3:49 AM on April 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also DC has an Office of the Tenant Advocate which should be able to specifically address whether the bathroom is up to code. This and the over-stove fans that don’t actually go anywhere are pretty common DC building problems in my experience.
posted by donut_princess at 3:57 AM on April 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by donut_princess at 3:57 AM on April 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
I had the same problem in a apartment I once lived in. What I finally ended up doing for the rest of the lease was put a box fan in front of the bathroom door. That worked very well for me.
posted by james33 at 4:00 AM on April 14, 2022
posted by james33 at 4:00 AM on April 14, 2022
Your lease calls it an "exhaust fan" then it should exhaust, and as my architect friend above confirms, by code it should exhaust. I think you may need to bring your problem to a higher level of management. Yes, they were helpful and facilitated your move to another apartment but you don't owe them for that, it was no big deal.
posted by mareli at 6:15 AM on April 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by mareli at 6:15 AM on April 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Exhaust fans to nowhere are a pretty classic shortcut for cheap renovators/house flippers, although any inspector should pick up on it right away. Maybe only some of the units have actual ducts and that's how they got away with it. It's not necessarily a code violation in every jurisdiction if the bathroom also has a window that can be opened to the outside.
For situations where you want a bathroom but it's impractical to run a duct, there are "ductless" exhaust fans that are just fans that suck air through a charcoal or other filter, and provide *some* moisture and smell elimination. They are better than nothing. Maybe you can get them to install one of those at the very least.
posted by dis_integration at 6:56 AM on April 14, 2022
For situations where you want a bathroom but it's impractical to run a duct, there are "ductless" exhaust fans that are just fans that suck air through a charcoal or other filter, and provide *some* moisture and smell elimination. They are better than nothing. Maybe you can get them to install one of those at the very least.
posted by dis_integration at 6:56 AM on April 14, 2022
If you have an "exhaust fan" that does not exhaust, by definition, it's not an exhaust fan.
WHile you wait for a fix, if there is a window in your bathroom, I'd advise opening it and putting one of those short fans on the sill to EXHAUST the damp air. If not, leave the bathroom door open a crack and put a fan put side the door to pull the air out.
posted by mmf at 3:58 PM on April 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
WHile you wait for a fix, if there is a window in your bathroom, I'd advise opening it and putting one of those short fans on the sill to EXHAUST the damp air. If not, leave the bathroom door open a crack and put a fan put side the door to pull the air out.
posted by mmf at 3:58 PM on April 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
When you finish your hot shower, switch to cold water for not very long, it takes the fog down the drain, watch your mirror to see how long that is, not to waste water, you can fill a watering jug while it clears. If you have a hand held shower attachment, turn that on with the cold and wave it around to achieve this, for now until you get to the bottom of it, or forever. Maybe investors from abroad who build in the US, don't feel building codes are for them. It is a different world anymore and some is for the better, and some, not so much. Don't be taken advantage of.
posted by Oyéah at 8:25 PM on April 14, 2022
posted by Oyéah at 8:25 PM on April 14, 2022
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"Moisture (and smells?) stay in the bathroom for a prolonged period of time. Longer than when I was in the other unit. Here's a photo of steamed up mirror (or whatever) 15 minutes after a shower, with the fan on the entire time. At the previous unit, it would be totally clear after 15 minutes.
I am concerned about potential for mold, and moisture damage."
That's it. Don't even mention the fan. Let the maintenance people fix things however they want - maybe they will figure out the fan situation after having a second look, or they will supply you a dehumidifier. Just hold your line that your "acceptance criteria" is a non-foggy mirror 15 mins (or whatever an appropriate length of time is) after a shower, and no mold!
posted by tinydancer at 6:42 PM on April 13, 2022 [2 favorites]