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March 30, 2022 1:32 PM Subscribe
Why isn't Moonlighting streaming anywhere yet? Or even available to purchase outside of used DVDs? What could be holding it up?
It definitely can. That stuff costs money, and if they don't think they can make the money back, they're not going to do it. Of course, there could be many other reasons why it's not available for streaming, but music rights is a likely guess.
posted by jonathanhughes at 1:50 PM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by jonathanhughes at 1:50 PM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
Best answer: According to the man who wrote the book on Moonlighting, it is in fact because of the "music writes[sic]". And Moonlighting showrunner Glenn Caron points to an article that simply says that streaming services don't think it will increase their bottom line. "For better or worse, industry experts say the biggest factor in determining whether an older show lands on streaming these days is whether or not a big streaming service believes adding that show to its lineup will help boost subscriptions."
Others agree with you: Streaming Services, Hear My Plea: Please Pick Up The Rights To ‘Moonlighting’! and What Television Owes “Moonlighting”, for example.
But it doesn't make sense that music companies think that allowing their songs to be streamed on a 30-year-old TV show would reduce their income by more than the streaming services are willing to pay for the rights. Econ 101 would suggest that the cost of negotiating those payments is higher than the difference between the value to the owners and the potential buyers...which...maybe?
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 2:53 PM on March 30, 2022 [9 favorites]
Others agree with you: Streaming Services, Hear My Plea: Please Pick Up The Rights To ‘Moonlighting’! and What Television Owes “Moonlighting”, for example.
But it doesn't make sense that music companies think that allowing their songs to be streamed on a 30-year-old TV show would reduce their income by more than the streaming services are willing to pay for the rights. Econ 101 would suggest that the cost of negotiating those payments is higher than the difference between the value to the owners and the potential buyers...which...maybe?
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 2:53 PM on March 30, 2022 [9 favorites]
To put some perspective to how complex licensing TV rights for music can be, here's a 2009 article apparently published in a volume of "Entertainment and Sports Lawyer" magazine put out by the American Bar Association. Just in the opening fictious example, the TV Producer is looking for a quote for prices for:
And on top of that, there can be more than one publisher who owns the rights to a song, and more than one business entity that owns rights to recording, and any one of these entities can halt the entire process with a "No."
So the Econ 101 is probably not so much that music rights holders think that they're going to lose money by licensing their songs; they're not even thinking about it because it's the responsibility of ABC (the company theoretically looking to release the show on DVD/Blu-Ray/streaming) to get this whole process started and track down and negotiate all these new contracts. And ABC apparently doesn't feel the money spent - either the actual royalties paid to publishers & labels or the time of the staff & attorneys - is worth the return. (A couple of articles I found researching this suggest that ABC seems particularly uninterested in doing the work to get their shows streamed or on home formats, they have a lot of 70's & 80's "classics" that are largely if not entirely unavailable.)
if ABC managed to clear all the songs in The Muppet Show
Maybe worth noting that according to the Wikipedia they actually didn't manage to clear all the music. Muppet Show: Series Releases notes several episodes that have been edited or just not released because of music licensing issues.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:44 PM on March 30, 2022 [12 favorites]
1) A five-year free television licenseThere are even more complex examples later in the article. And that's for the rights to use the song, which is entirely different from the rights to use a specific recording of a song. (IOW, you want David & Maddie to sing "Superstition" to each other, that's one thing; you want them to sing that while doing a dance routine to Steve Wonder's recording of "Superstition", that's a whole other set of permissions you need to pay for.)
2) An option for Internet streaming
3) An option for a life-of-copyright free television license
4) An option for downloads
5) An option for all television rights for life of copyright
6) An option for all media rights, excluding theatrical
7) An option for a home video buyout, including mobile phones
8) An option for theatrical use outside the United States
9) An option to use the song in promos for the series
And on top of that, there can be more than one publisher who owns the rights to a song, and more than one business entity that owns rights to recording, and any one of these entities can halt the entire process with a "No."
So the Econ 101 is probably not so much that music rights holders think that they're going to lose money by licensing their songs; they're not even thinking about it because it's the responsibility of ABC (the company theoretically looking to release the show on DVD/Blu-Ray/streaming) to get this whole process started and track down and negotiate all these new contracts. And ABC apparently doesn't feel the money spent - either the actual royalties paid to publishers & labels or the time of the staff & attorneys - is worth the return. (A couple of articles I found researching this suggest that ABC seems particularly uninterested in doing the work to get their shows streamed or on home formats, they have a lot of 70's & 80's "classics" that are largely if not entirely unavailable.)
if ABC managed to clear all the songs in The Muppet Show
Maybe worth noting that according to the Wikipedia they actually didn't manage to clear all the music. Muppet Show: Series Releases notes several episodes that have been edited or just not released because of music licensing issues.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:44 PM on March 30, 2022 [12 favorites]
I wonder if today's Bruce Willis health announcement may increase interest and change the calculations.
posted by cyndigo at 4:48 PM on March 30, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by cyndigo at 4:48 PM on March 30, 2022 [6 favorites]
Can't answer your question, but there are 65 episodes in a playlist
here
Wikipedia says there were 67 broadcast. Tracking down the missing 2 sounds like a job for a certain agency...
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 4:56 PM on March 30, 2022 [14 favorites]
Wikipedia says there were 67 broadcast. Tracking down the missing 2 sounds like a job for a certain agency...
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 4:56 PM on March 30, 2022 [14 favorites]
Whoa thanks for that playlist info!!
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 6:05 AM on March 31, 2022
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 6:05 AM on March 31, 2022
surely that can't be it anymore, can it?
Do bears bear? Do bees bee?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:14 AM on March 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
Do bears bear? Do bees bee?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:14 AM on March 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
Creator/showrunner Glenn Gordon Caron being exposed as a toxic a-hole probably does not help motivate people to work with him to bring this back.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:11 PM on March 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:11 PM on March 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Music licensing it is.
posted by Mchelly at 1:57 PM on April 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 1:57 PM on April 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Mchelly at 1:33 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]