Volodymyr versus Vladimir

March 16, 2022 9:24 AM

Is the difference between the names Volodymyr and Vladimir because they are the Ukranainian and Russian versions of basically the same name -- along the lines of Joseph/Jose and Mary/Maria -- or is it something more?

I know about transliteration, but this feels like it's not just that.

Thanks for helping me understand!

posted by wenestvedt to Society & Culture (7 answers total)

I'm not sure but I work with someone who previously spelled his name "Alexander" and he recently changed it to be "Oleksandr" which is definitely the Ukrainian spelling/version. I'm not sure what you mean by it "feels like" it's not just transliteration? Perhaps someone more knowledgable than me will understand what you mean, but the question is vague.
posted by Medieval Maven at 10:27 AM on March 16, 2022

Best answer: My understanding is that it's similar to the name Julius in Latin becoming Giulio in Italian, but Jules in French - there would have been an original name in an earlier common Slavic language which then mutated differently as the various slavic languages split apart from each other. So they are equivalent, but it is more than just simple differences in transliteration.
posted by scorbet at 10:34 AM on March 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

Best answer: They're derived from the same Old East Slavic name. So think of them as cousin names/words that came from the same source and developed slightly differently.

A good parallel would be something closer to the "John" name in Romance languages--say Spanish Juan vs. Portuguese João (since Ukrainian and Russian are in the same sub-branch of Slavic, mainly, East Slavic; Spanish and Portuguese are in the same sub-branch of Romance); English "John" is a little further away since it's in a different sub-family.
posted by damayanti at 10:41 AM on March 16, 2022 [3 favorites]

Possibly also going further back to some viking source, given that Vladimir the Great was from that lineage? That's the case for some other names.

You might find this pretty deep dive on name and spelling variations attached to identity interesting (which I've linked in some other recent threads):


History of Names: A Case of Constructing National Historical Memory in Galicia, 1830-1930s.

Jaroslav Hrytsak, Jahrbücher für Geschichte Osteuropas - Themenschwerpunkt: Die ukrainische Nationalbewegung vor 1914 (2001), pp. 163-177

The gradual elimination of "Ruthenian" names coincided with the fading away of the historical memory of old Rus'. Of all the former Kyivan appanages, in the long run only the Volodymyr-Suzdal' princedom managed to preserve its independence, evolving into the Muscovite tsardom. Still, Edward Keenan revealed that on a list of three thousand upper-class Muscovite male names from the second half of the 16th century, there was not a single Igor' (Ihor), Sviatoslav, or Mstyslav, that fewer than 1 per cent of were called Vladimir (Volodymyr), and only three Gleb (Hlib). He concluded that "a Muscovite courtier of Ivan's time was more likely to be called Temir or Bulgak than Vladimir or Vsevolod.'.....

posted by snuffleupagus at 10:56 AM on March 16, 2022 [2 favorites]

Also, wiki on 'eastern slavic naming customs' and Vladimir - Etymology, which says "the Old Russian form of the name is Володимѣръ / Volodiměr, the Old Church Slavonic one Vladiměr."
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:08 AM on March 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

Best answer: The discrepancy is because Ukrainian is the only official language, while people’s names are of course not only Ukrainian; they might be Russian or Belarusian, or Tatar, or something else. I have friends who are, for example, Dmitri to their friends and family but Dmytro on their Ukrainian state documents. No one calls them Dmytro, but it is obviously irritating if your bank card and passport and national ID all have different names to what you call yourself.

This random paper says more:

“…a serious problem with personal names’ standardization and state registration in Ukraine lies in correct transcription and transliteration of personal names due to the rules of Ukrainian language. Basically, this situation appeared when names, misspelled in Ukrainian, are given by parents, who want to use a name of their newborn child written in foreign language (for example, Russian-speaking parents, who are living in the East region of Ukraine want to give their child the Russian written form of a name without correct transcription and spelling in Ukrainian).”

The author lists these as some examples:

“Artyom (Артбом) instead of Artem (Артем), Gleb (Глеб) instead of Hlib (Гліб), Daniil (Данііл) instead of Danylo (Данило), Kirill (Кірілл) instead of Kyrylo (Кирило), Nikita (Нікіта) instead of Mykyta (Микита); Alyona (Альона) instead of Olena (Олена), Alesya (Алеся) instead of Olesja (Олеся), Darya (Дар’я) instead of Darija, Daria or Dariya (Дарія) and Kristina (Крістіна) instead of Khrystyna (Христина)”

The author also refers to Bulgakov v Ukraine, a 2008 European Court of Human Rights case on naming rights.
posted by mdonley at 12:02 AM on March 17, 2022 [2 favorites]

It's a consistent change that happened resulting in differences like "grad" for town in modern west Slavic languages vs "gorod" in Russian. I used to know more about it but historical Slavic phonology was many years ago.
posted by less-of-course at 11:23 PM on March 17, 2022