Eye cream / skincare for the clueless and aging?
March 9, 2022 9:19 PM Subscribe
Hi skincare people! I am aging and that's cool but I look wiped. My eyelids are suddenly drooping, for one thing. Where do I start?
The texture of my skin eyelids have suddenly become really different. Like: crepey? Definitely dry and flakey? Puffy for sure. I have bad eczema as a rule but I don't think it's that: not pink or inflamed or anything.
And my whole face is just looking.... dry and dull. Especially now that I am back at work and interacting with people again, it feels noticeable (as in, other people have in fact noticed).
I suspect I am just getting a little old and need to improve my skincare game (which is at ZERO) (like I wash my face with water). I used to use Neutrogena HydroGel but it started stinging and I switched to the EFL purple "ultra hydrating face moisturizer) with squalene but I think I need something heavier.
I would especially appreciate specific feedback about types of stuff to look for (ceramides?! squalene? vitamin C? retinol?!?!) since my available brands might be different (previous posts have been very product-centric).
Any handholding would be much appreciated: do you put hydrating serums on your eyes? Do you use a separate eye cream? Is it bad if I just like... rub coconut oil into my eyes before I go to bed?
Assume my skin is basically impervious to acne but extremely dry and extremely sensitive. I do see a dermatologist for the eczema but should I go back and be like: "hello good sir, what is a facial?" Despite my riotgrrl past I am willing to throw some money at this / learn from influencer derms on social media if you think they are legit / make this a kind of 'self-care hobby.'
I embarrassed that this is my next question after asking about gender-feminism-stuff :O but there you have it.
The texture of my skin eyelids have suddenly become really different. Like: crepey? Definitely dry and flakey? Puffy for sure. I have bad eczema as a rule but I don't think it's that: not pink or inflamed or anything.
And my whole face is just looking.... dry and dull. Especially now that I am back at work and interacting with people again, it feels noticeable (as in, other people have in fact noticed).
I suspect I am just getting a little old and need to improve my skincare game (which is at ZERO) (like I wash my face with water). I used to use Neutrogena HydroGel but it started stinging and I switched to the EFL purple "ultra hydrating face moisturizer) with squalene but I think I need something heavier.
I would especially appreciate specific feedback about types of stuff to look for (ceramides?! squalene? vitamin C? retinol?!?!) since my available brands might be different (previous posts have been very product-centric).
Any handholding would be much appreciated: do you put hydrating serums on your eyes? Do you use a separate eye cream? Is it bad if I just like... rub coconut oil into my eyes before I go to bed?
Assume my skin is basically impervious to acne but extremely dry and extremely sensitive. I do see a dermatologist for the eczema but should I go back and be like: "hello good sir, what is a facial?" Despite my riotgrrl past I am willing to throw some money at this / learn from influencer derms on social media if you think they are legit / make this a kind of 'self-care hobby.'
I embarrassed that this is my next question after asking about gender-feminism-stuff :O but there you have it.
Also, I learned about slugging from Charlotte Palermino and I find her skincare information really well-researched and sensible with a good range of price points.
posted by stellaluna at 10:05 PM on March 9, 2022
posted by stellaluna at 10:05 PM on March 9, 2022
My short answer, as someone who always forget to maintain a routine at home (ADHD!), since you're up to spending money, spend a bit of time researching the spas in your area and get started on a regular facial routine (3 weeks is what they'll always say, but a month to 5 weeks is fine if you're not fussed).
Others will have their own advice and strategy and mine as follows will not have any product recs because we have different markets.
Why i think you ought to get started on a facial routine:
- it's a good maintenance habit
- a good beauty centre will have a consultation and will highlight your problem areas. The only thing i would suggest as preparation is honestly mental fortitude: even if they're not upselling you'll be tempted to get most of their recommended services
- your issues seem treatable but not totally with at-home procedures/products.
-- for example, I'm not a believer in eye creams but i do admit most ppl tend to have face moisturizers that are too heavy esp when applied ungently which tends to produce noticeable consequences on their eye area.
Why I say that:
From your description your skin is basically aging and there's a deficit or decline in collagen and skin firmness, elasticity, and moisture. Likely for visible immediate improvement you'll be recommended something that involves lasers/light therapy or subdermal application.
Topical applications can only go so far, but if you want to start here regardless, i recommend a routine that involves chemical exfoliation plus some kind of retinoid before you get into the emollients and moisturizers. Exfoliation will help to resurface to the newer layers (encouraging better absorption of products) and retinoids encourages cell production and turnover.
I understand fillers and Botox etc is popular but I've yet to see the need for them if your skin condition is still early enough that you basically just need jumpstart your cell production rate.
In the most immediate term however, you can already do 2 things: add a toning lotion/serum + moisturiser. You've been cleansing without reintroducing moisture to your skin. Which is also good advice for the rest of your body tbh. Good luck! I hope i didn't overload you with ideas.
posted by cendawanita at 11:53 PM on March 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
Others will have their own advice and strategy and mine as follows will not have any product recs because we have different markets.
Why i think you ought to get started on a facial routine:
- it's a good maintenance habit
- a good beauty centre will have a consultation and will highlight your problem areas. The only thing i would suggest as preparation is honestly mental fortitude: even if they're not upselling you'll be tempted to get most of their recommended services
- your issues seem treatable but not totally with at-home procedures/products.
-- for example, I'm not a believer in eye creams but i do admit most ppl tend to have face moisturizers that are too heavy esp when applied ungently which tends to produce noticeable consequences on their eye area.
Why I say that:
From your description your skin is basically aging and there's a deficit or decline in collagen and skin firmness, elasticity, and moisture. Likely for visible immediate improvement you'll be recommended something that involves lasers/light therapy or subdermal application.
Topical applications can only go so far, but if you want to start here regardless, i recommend a routine that involves chemical exfoliation plus some kind of retinoid before you get into the emollients and moisturizers. Exfoliation will help to resurface to the newer layers (encouraging better absorption of products) and retinoids encourages cell production and turnover.
I understand fillers and Botox etc is popular but I've yet to see the need for them if your skin condition is still early enough that you basically just need jumpstart your cell production rate.
In the most immediate term however, you can already do 2 things: add a toning lotion/serum + moisturiser. You've been cleansing without reintroducing moisture to your skin. Which is also good advice for the rest of your body tbh. Good luck! I hope i didn't overload you with ideas.
posted by cendawanita at 11:53 PM on March 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
Oh also, while the science of it is still quite sketchy, my personal wooo weakness is with specific supplements, and i think adding omega-3 and -6 and collagen to your daily diet will also be quite helpful.
posted by cendawanita at 12:00 AM on March 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by cendawanita at 12:00 AM on March 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
Sorry sorry last thing: for workplace face tips, if you're not a makeup person that's ok. Find a decent makeup primer or if you think a hint of colour will help to even out your skin tone, tinted BB or CC cream. The secret to them is just silicones honestly, and that'll be what will smooth over your skin texture for short-term daily use.
posted by cendawanita at 12:07 AM on March 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by cendawanita at 12:07 AM on March 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
I also have dry, sensitive skin, but mine is also acne-prone. I finally got into a skincare routine that does wonders for my skin.
My first step would be cleaning the skin, but it seems water might be enough for you. I'm using micellar water for this - very gentle.
Your first step is to add moisture to your skin. Coconut oil is not bad, but it's obviously not doing enough for your skin. Find a good moisturizer (I swear by Paula's Choice Skin Recovery line, although there are A LOT of other options out there) and start applying it after cleaning your face. I put it on my eye area too and don't use a special eye cream or serum. If you have eczema, additional moisture all over your body would probably be good too. See where regular application of moisturizer over 2 weeks or more takes you.
If this is not enough and your skin is still flaky and dull, look into exfoliation. Chemical exfoliation strips the outer layer of dead cells from your skin. You're looking for AHA and BHA products. (For specific products, take a look at The Ordinary, they have a good price/performance ratio.) This will take away some protection that the layer of dead cells was giving you, so you want to use a SPF cream/sunblock daily if you're exfoliating (even if you're not in, say, California or Greece).
The next step would be retinoids. They encourage cell reproduction, as mentioned by someone above. Start with retinol gradually, to let the skin get used to it. And use a good SPF cream every day, as retinol makes your skin more prone to sunburn.
Facials might be good for you, but my sensitive-skin-self gets very nervous at the thought of getting who knows what on my very picky skin without me researching the ingredients beforehand. The same goes for just blindly buying products at someone's recommendation - eg. some moisturizers also have retinoids, so you have to use a SPF cream with them, but nobody tells you that. That said, PM me if you want specific product recommendations for dry, sensitive skin in the EU.
posted by gakiko at 2:18 AM on March 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
My first step would be cleaning the skin, but it seems water might be enough for you. I'm using micellar water for this - very gentle.
Your first step is to add moisture to your skin. Coconut oil is not bad, but it's obviously not doing enough for your skin. Find a good moisturizer (I swear by Paula's Choice Skin Recovery line, although there are A LOT of other options out there) and start applying it after cleaning your face. I put it on my eye area too and don't use a special eye cream or serum. If you have eczema, additional moisture all over your body would probably be good too. See where regular application of moisturizer over 2 weeks or more takes you.
If this is not enough and your skin is still flaky and dull, look into exfoliation. Chemical exfoliation strips the outer layer of dead cells from your skin. You're looking for AHA and BHA products. (For specific products, take a look at The Ordinary, they have a good price/performance ratio.) This will take away some protection that the layer of dead cells was giving you, so you want to use a SPF cream/sunblock daily if you're exfoliating (even if you're not in, say, California or Greece).
The next step would be retinoids. They encourage cell reproduction, as mentioned by someone above. Start with retinol gradually, to let the skin get used to it. And use a good SPF cream every day, as retinol makes your skin more prone to sunburn.
Facials might be good for you, but my sensitive-skin-self gets very nervous at the thought of getting who knows what on my very picky skin without me researching the ingredients beforehand. The same goes for just blindly buying products at someone's recommendation - eg. some moisturizers also have retinoids, so you have to use a SPF cream with them, but nobody tells you that. That said, PM me if you want specific product recommendations for dry, sensitive skin in the EU.
posted by gakiko at 2:18 AM on March 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm a skincare hobbyist and goo hoarder, but as much as I am those things I'm also cheap and lazy, so my favorite products are inexpensive and my routine is pretty simple.
I use acid exfoliators regularly, but I think with your very dry skin that's probably going to be a lot for you. So I wouldn't go there, or the retinol route, unless you start having a skincare routine and enjoy it, and want to start incorporating more things.
So I'm going to recommend two products:
- A nice heavy facial moisturizer with hyaluronic acidor glycerin, for you to put on in the morning after washing your face and at night before going to bed. These moisturizers combo a humectant which draws water to your skin with the lotion that will seal it in. I like CeraVe. It's a popular hyaluronic acid choice with a good fan base and it works great for my skin. Some people here on mefi hate this stuff (not every product is gonna work for every person) but me I would happily dunk tank myself in it if I could. Your Hydro Gel you were using before is also a good example of one with glycerin as the humectant. The rec to try slugging above is good. I go through an alarming amount of Vaseline and my skin is very nice (now).
- Second thing is a weird one and I never see it recommend anywhere, but it's one of my very favorite things: The Ordinary Pycnogenol. I only use this at night a couple times a week (before my moisturizer) because it's weirdly greasy and turns your face orange. I don't know what kind of dark magicks they've distilled down into this little goo, but it makes my skin feel SO LOVELY the next morning, extra soft and extra fresh. It's like waking up with new skin, I know that sounds dramatic but I really genuinely do notice an overnight difference. With your skin type you describe I bet it would be a good product to try out.
posted by phunniemee at 4:31 AM on March 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
I use acid exfoliators regularly, but I think with your very dry skin that's probably going to be a lot for you. So I wouldn't go there, or the retinol route, unless you start having a skincare routine and enjoy it, and want to start incorporating more things.
So I'm going to recommend two products:
- A nice heavy facial moisturizer with hyaluronic acidor glycerin, for you to put on in the morning after washing your face and at night before going to bed. These moisturizers combo a humectant which draws water to your skin with the lotion that will seal it in. I like CeraVe. It's a popular hyaluronic acid choice with a good fan base and it works great for my skin. Some people here on mefi hate this stuff (not every product is gonna work for every person) but me I would happily dunk tank myself in it if I could. Your Hydro Gel you were using before is also a good example of one with glycerin as the humectant. The rec to try slugging above is good. I go through an alarming amount of Vaseline and my skin is very nice (now).
- Second thing is a weird one and I never see it recommend anywhere, but it's one of my very favorite things: The Ordinary Pycnogenol. I only use this at night a couple times a week (before my moisturizer) because it's weirdly greasy and turns your face orange. I don't know what kind of dark magicks they've distilled down into this little goo, but it makes my skin feel SO LOVELY the next morning, extra soft and extra fresh. It's like waking up with new skin, I know that sounds dramatic but I really genuinely do notice an overnight difference. With your skin type you describe I bet it would be a good product to try out.
posted by phunniemee at 4:31 AM on March 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
What I have done for years is very similar to the slugging linked above, except I use a hyaluronic acid serum (just the basic inexpensive one from Trader Joe’s), a basic lotion over that (CeraVe with the blue label, just the ordinary lotion in a pump, not made specifically for the face), and either CeraVe Healing Ointment or Aquaphor over it, an amount the size of a pea spread out between my fingertips and patted over my face.
Most separate eye creams are gimmicky and unnecessary: there’s nothing special or specific about them as moisturizers, so pampering is really the main point of them. This routine is pretty adequate for me.
Do be sure that your facial cleanser isn’t drying you out.
posted by verbminx at 4:58 AM on March 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
Most separate eye creams are gimmicky and unnecessary: there’s nothing special or specific about them as moisturizers, so pampering is really the main point of them. This routine is pretty adequate for me.
Do be sure that your facial cleanser isn’t drying you out.
posted by verbminx at 4:58 AM on March 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
3 thoughts:
1. Self-care is a feminist act. You need to take care of yourself in the way that feels best to you - there is nothing anti-feminist about that, so don't feel embarrassed or shamed for wanting to feel good or look good. It is a radical act for you.
2. I really enjoyed the podcast the Science of Beauty. They do hawk products sometimes, but mostly it's them talking to scientists about how different types of products work. They go through what retinols and vitamin C do, what toners do, what silicon does etc. I found it interesting and informative.
3. Not sure where you live, but in the US, Sephora gives away a lot of samples with purchases which I've found is a great way to explore new products without committing. Many products also come in mini-sizes or smaller sizes so you can try them out.
posted by Toddles at 5:36 AM on March 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
1. Self-care is a feminist act. You need to take care of yourself in the way that feels best to you - there is nothing anti-feminist about that, so don't feel embarrassed or shamed for wanting to feel good or look good. It is a radical act for you.
2. I really enjoyed the podcast the Science of Beauty. They do hawk products sometimes, but mostly it's them talking to scientists about how different types of products work. They go through what retinols and vitamin C do, what toners do, what silicon does etc. I found it interesting and informative.
3. Not sure where you live, but in the US, Sephora gives away a lot of samples with purchases which I've found is a great way to explore new products without committing. Many products also come in mini-sizes or smaller sizes so you can try them out.
posted by Toddles at 5:36 AM on March 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
I work in the skincare industry, and I'll be the first to tell you... 99% of common knowledge about skincare is wrong.
Moisturizers are basically expensive lotions. The active ingredients they list (yes, even hyaluronic acid / retinol) are usually in small enough quantities that they have questionable impact. Moisturizers almost never penetrate the skin, so for your eyelids to droop, they wouldn't help.
Serums are usually moisturizers without the silicone. Sometimes they are literally the same as the moisturizer (and have the silicone).
Eye creams are literally the same product as moisturizers. SOMETIMES they have a slightly different formulation, but eye creams mostly exist because manufacturers of moisturizers did a study, and it showed that people don't put moisturizers on their eyes. They saw this as a market opportunity and acted on it.
Cleansers are just soap. You could use hand soap. But... hand soap is hard on your skin. So, cleansers are either less effective cleaners than hand soap (diluted soap) or... they dry out your skin.
Cleansers have the nice (for the industry) effect of drying out your skin, because they are soap. So, moisturizers help "fix" that. Similar to how shampoo can dry out your scalp and conditioners "fix" that. But, it's more of an self-propagating cycle than a real benefit to your skin.
Chemical exfoliants vary so much I can't tuck them into a little category of their own. Often chemical exfoliants have a residue they leave behind to make you think they are working. Maybe they do something. Most don't. I haven't seen any that work any better than rubbing your face with a soapy washcloth.
So, what actually works? What does anything? And most importantly, what can you do about your droopy eyes?
1. Botox. Wait - hear me out. Like I said, most skincare doesn't penetrate your skin. When we think of botox we think of celebrities that overdo botox and look like a bowling ball. But a small amount of botox to adjust this kind of thing is safe and effective, cheaper than you'd think (cheaper than skincare!) have immediate results, and work right away. Just... don't try to get rid of every wrinkle. Wrinkles make us who we are! But they fix what you're asking them to fix.
2. Makeup. Silicone moisturizer is a nice base for makeup. If you wear makeup then you can try to find a routine that helps with makeup.
3. SPF moisturizer. Direct Sunlight is what causes skin aging. A SPF moisturizer helps with that. It would help slow further aging a bit.
4. Acceptance. Most of skincare is genetic, and most is aging. Time moves on us all. You can try to hold it back, but it will get you eventually. I know it's said so much it's lost its meaning, but there is so much more to focus on than outward beauty. Specifically, I think I would much rather have one more personal trainer session than a month of a new fancy eye cream.
5. If you do try something, try cheap. No, the $400 Ulta face cream isn't going to be THAT MUCH more effective than the $4 one at Aldi.
posted by bbqturtle at 5:40 AM on March 10, 2022 [47 favorites]
Moisturizers are basically expensive lotions. The active ingredients they list (yes, even hyaluronic acid / retinol) are usually in small enough quantities that they have questionable impact. Moisturizers almost never penetrate the skin, so for your eyelids to droop, they wouldn't help.
Serums are usually moisturizers without the silicone. Sometimes they are literally the same as the moisturizer (and have the silicone).
Eye creams are literally the same product as moisturizers. SOMETIMES they have a slightly different formulation, but eye creams mostly exist because manufacturers of moisturizers did a study, and it showed that people don't put moisturizers on their eyes. They saw this as a market opportunity and acted on it.
Cleansers are just soap. You could use hand soap. But... hand soap is hard on your skin. So, cleansers are either less effective cleaners than hand soap (diluted soap) or... they dry out your skin.
Cleansers have the nice (for the industry) effect of drying out your skin, because they are soap. So, moisturizers help "fix" that. Similar to how shampoo can dry out your scalp and conditioners "fix" that. But, it's more of an self-propagating cycle than a real benefit to your skin.
Chemical exfoliants vary so much I can't tuck them into a little category of their own. Often chemical exfoliants have a residue they leave behind to make you think they are working. Maybe they do something. Most don't. I haven't seen any that work any better than rubbing your face with a soapy washcloth.
So, what actually works? What does anything? And most importantly, what can you do about your droopy eyes?
1. Botox. Wait - hear me out. Like I said, most skincare doesn't penetrate your skin. When we think of botox we think of celebrities that overdo botox and look like a bowling ball. But a small amount of botox to adjust this kind of thing is safe and effective, cheaper than you'd think (cheaper than skincare!) have immediate results, and work right away. Just... don't try to get rid of every wrinkle. Wrinkles make us who we are! But they fix what you're asking them to fix.
2. Makeup. Silicone moisturizer is a nice base for makeup. If you wear makeup then you can try to find a routine that helps with makeup.
3. SPF moisturizer. Direct Sunlight is what causes skin aging. A SPF moisturizer helps with that. It would help slow further aging a bit.
4. Acceptance. Most of skincare is genetic, and most is aging. Time moves on us all. You can try to hold it back, but it will get you eventually. I know it's said so much it's lost its meaning, but there is so much more to focus on than outward beauty. Specifically, I think I would much rather have one more personal trainer session than a month of a new fancy eye cream.
5. If you do try something, try cheap. No, the $400 Ulta face cream isn't going to be THAT MUCH more effective than the $4 one at Aldi.
posted by bbqturtle at 5:40 AM on March 10, 2022 [47 favorites]
I found this useful https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3266803/
My takeaways were clean your face with something uncomplicated and put lotion on it. Lotion is made of nice feeling oils. Everyday use a SPF 15 or above lotion on your face. Beyond those basics, retinol is about the only compound that is demonstrated as effective.
posted by bdc34 at 7:09 AM on March 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
My takeaways were clean your face with something uncomplicated and put lotion on it. Lotion is made of nice feeling oils. Everyday use a SPF 15 or above lotion on your face. Beyond those basics, retinol is about the only compound that is demonstrated as effective.
posted by bdc34 at 7:09 AM on March 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
The only thing that really made a difference at my adult riot grrl age was Botox in the forehead and beside the eyes, and fillers in my lips and cheeks. I get the bare minimum, to the dismay of my injectors who all will try to upsell you. So I just look “refreshed” and not plastic. It all metabolizes out in a matter of months so you can stop at any time and go back to normal. (I will do no such thing.)
Moisturizer is going to be trial and error. I am amazed by how smooth and glowy a bit of Josie Maran argan milk makes my skin look and feel, yet it breaks my sister out and isn’t sufficiently moisturizing for my mother.
Eyelids are a tough one. Lotion doesn’t do anything for drooping, but may help with dryness and dull texture. But anything you apply to your upper eyelids is going to get in your eyes, so go very light and be prepared for some products to sting like hell.
posted by kapers at 7:25 AM on March 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
Moisturizer is going to be trial and error. I am amazed by how smooth and glowy a bit of Josie Maran argan milk makes my skin look and feel, yet it breaks my sister out and isn’t sufficiently moisturizing for my mother.
Eyelids are a tough one. Lotion doesn’t do anything for drooping, but may help with dryness and dull texture. But anything you apply to your upper eyelids is going to get in your eyes, so go very light and be prepared for some products to sting like hell.
posted by kapers at 7:25 AM on March 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
My eyelids have started drooping in the last few years, and honestly once they start impeding my vision enough that my insurance will cover it, I'm going to look into surgery. My boss, who is a 70-something white man, had both of his done, so I feel like I'm in the clear.
There is nothing that will restore elasticity to fragile skin, I don't think. Aging is real.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 7:28 AM on March 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
There is nothing that will restore elasticity to fragile skin, I don't think. Aging is real.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 7:28 AM on March 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
I also have very dry and sensitive skin that can get dull and also quite red. My best recommendation is to use products that will add hydration/moisture. Since I started paying more attention to this, my skin has looked much less washed out and more “alive.” What I use:
- Fragrance-free Ponds cold cream as a cleanser once a day: apply, then wipe off gently with a bamboo baby washcloth (Any normal cleansers make my skin feel tight and dry and itchy, and a regular washcloth is too exfoliating and makes me bright red. Probably any number of “oil-based cleansers” would work similarly.)
- NEVER any chemical exfoliation products or so-called “actives” (retinol, etc)
- A watery moisturizing toner, applied to damp-to-wet skin twice a day (There are two kinds of toner, one that is moisturizing and one that is designed to be very stripping. This is ridiculous, but it is how it is. Don’t get the stripping kind. If you put it on and your skin feels tight, it’s the wrong kind.)
- A thick, occlusive moisturizer applied on top of the toner (For a long time I used 100% pure cocoa butter for this, but have since switched to a fancier moisturizer because it’s less slimy, and both work. People also love Vaseline.)
Other things I do that may or may not impact my skin but I feel like they do:
- Drink a ton of water (I hate that this works because I dismissed it for years, but it does.)
- 5-10 mg of collagen powder mixed into my tea every day (I read some studies suggesting this is the amount that improves skin elasticity and firmness; the amount in supplement capsules is not enough.)
- Making sure the rest of my body is also well-moisturized, mostly by using a cocoa butter lotion applied to wet skin after I shower
Also, bbqturtle, if you have the inclination to follow-up, I’m curious what you mean by “moisturizers almost never penetrate the skin.” How should one think about/approach treating dry skin, given this? I am very much a beginner here and not a skin chemist, and would love to learn more from your perspective if you care to share.
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 7:46 AM on March 10, 2022
- Fragrance-free Ponds cold cream as a cleanser once a day: apply, then wipe off gently with a bamboo baby washcloth (Any normal cleansers make my skin feel tight and dry and itchy, and a regular washcloth is too exfoliating and makes me bright red. Probably any number of “oil-based cleansers” would work similarly.)
- NEVER any chemical exfoliation products or so-called “actives” (retinol, etc)
- A watery moisturizing toner, applied to damp-to-wet skin twice a day (There are two kinds of toner, one that is moisturizing and one that is designed to be very stripping. This is ridiculous, but it is how it is. Don’t get the stripping kind. If you put it on and your skin feels tight, it’s the wrong kind.)
- A thick, occlusive moisturizer applied on top of the toner (For a long time I used 100% pure cocoa butter for this, but have since switched to a fancier moisturizer because it’s less slimy, and both work. People also love Vaseline.)
Other things I do that may or may not impact my skin but I feel like they do:
- Drink a ton of water (I hate that this works because I dismissed it for years, but it does.)
- 5-10 mg of collagen powder mixed into my tea every day (I read some studies suggesting this is the amount that improves skin elasticity and firmness; the amount in supplement capsules is not enough.)
- Making sure the rest of my body is also well-moisturized, mostly by using a cocoa butter lotion applied to wet skin after I shower
Also, bbqturtle, if you have the inclination to follow-up, I’m curious what you mean by “moisturizers almost never penetrate the skin.” How should one think about/approach treating dry skin, given this? I am very much a beginner here and not a skin chemist, and would love to learn more from your perspective if you care to share.
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 7:46 AM on March 10, 2022
I have similar skin concerns and attitudes as you, right on down to the flakey, crepey eyelids. I'm still trying to find what works best for me, but here are some useful info and things that I've found so far that I enjoyed and seem to be working:
-Retinoids work, but they're harsh on sensitive skin. I get the tretinoin cream from my dermatologist, but I had to stop this winter because it was making me extra flaky. Maybe a non-prescription strength retinoid would be less brutal? Could be worth investigating. Retinoids also make you more sensitive to sunlight, so if you are using one, you'll definitely want to use sunscreen as well. So on that note...
-Sunscreen! For fancy, heavy makeup days, I like Supergoop Unseen Sunscreen, but that shit is IRRITATINGLY EXPENSIVE. So for less fancy days, the Cerave Ultra-Light Moisturizer is very nice, very gentle, and far more affordable, although in the summer time, it can give you that slimy sweat bead sensation if it's too humid out, which is hella gross. If you want something SUPER lightweight, Biore Watery Essence is SO GOOD but can also be a little spendy, so I save that one for the sweatiest summer days.
-Theoretically, you don't really need a separate eye cream for your eyelids if you're using a gentle enough moisturizer. HOWEVER: if you're using really thick heavy creams on your face to help combat the dry flakiness, that's not great for your eyelids, and can even cause milia, even if you're not acne-prone. So if you're using a lighter weight facial moisturizer that doesn't explicitly say "don't put this near your eyes", you're probably fine to just use that all over. Otherwise, maybe find something a little lighter for your eyes. I like the Clinique eye cream pretty well, but it hasn't done much to help the flaky eyelids long term, it just feels nice. I wish I could give you a moisturizer recommendation, but frankly, I'm still trying to find some that I like.
-I finally found a cleanser I don't hate: Glossier Milky Jelly Cleanser. So many cleansers are super drying, can't be used near your eyes, suck at taking off makeup, etc. You can rub this one directly on your eyelids and not only does it MELT makeup off (and gently exfoliate flaky eyelid skin) but it does not sting unless you're, like, rubbing it directly into your open eyes. Not super drying either, but you still definitely want to follow up with some kind of moisturizer.
posted by helloimjennsco at 8:07 AM on March 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
-Retinoids work, but they're harsh on sensitive skin. I get the tretinoin cream from my dermatologist, but I had to stop this winter because it was making me extra flaky. Maybe a non-prescription strength retinoid would be less brutal? Could be worth investigating. Retinoids also make you more sensitive to sunlight, so if you are using one, you'll definitely want to use sunscreen as well. So on that note...
-Sunscreen! For fancy, heavy makeup days, I like Supergoop Unseen Sunscreen, but that shit is IRRITATINGLY EXPENSIVE. So for less fancy days, the Cerave Ultra-Light Moisturizer is very nice, very gentle, and far more affordable, although in the summer time, it can give you that slimy sweat bead sensation if it's too humid out, which is hella gross. If you want something SUPER lightweight, Biore Watery Essence is SO GOOD but can also be a little spendy, so I save that one for the sweatiest summer days.
-Theoretically, you don't really need a separate eye cream for your eyelids if you're using a gentle enough moisturizer. HOWEVER: if you're using really thick heavy creams on your face to help combat the dry flakiness, that's not great for your eyelids, and can even cause milia, even if you're not acne-prone. So if you're using a lighter weight facial moisturizer that doesn't explicitly say "don't put this near your eyes", you're probably fine to just use that all over. Otherwise, maybe find something a little lighter for your eyes. I like the Clinique eye cream pretty well, but it hasn't done much to help the flaky eyelids long term, it just feels nice. I wish I could give you a moisturizer recommendation, but frankly, I'm still trying to find some that I like.
-I finally found a cleanser I don't hate: Glossier Milky Jelly Cleanser. So many cleansers are super drying, can't be used near your eyes, suck at taking off makeup, etc. You can rub this one directly on your eyelids and not only does it MELT makeup off (and gently exfoliate flaky eyelid skin) but it does not sting unless you're, like, rubbing it directly into your open eyes. Not super drying either, but you still definitely want to follow up with some kind of moisturizer.
posted by helloimjennsco at 8:07 AM on March 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's because most moisturizers aren't penetrative enough is also why i recommended looking into facial therapies (but also because OP seems interested enough to look into it). But i can't emphasize enough this is something that you need to do research for, and a decent one would at least do a skin review and consultation session. COVID completely wrecked my daily at-home discipline and it took a couple of sessions once businesses could resume to at least address my issues.
Totally seconding all recommendations for sunscreen. As for retinoids, i believe that's why some brands also come out with pseudo-retinoids? Or whole ingredients with that chemical included in it's makeup. Paula's Choice has one (that I use) which is bakuchiol and a tiny bit of retinol. Pairing it with exfoliants (which i used to do nightly but these days it's every other night) does seem to restore some kind of glow (the youthful flush of new skin cells i guess) Fwiw i also have dry skin that will flake out if i don't actually at least put some moisturizer and/or serum on it once a day. Even being in a high-humidity tropical climate matters little, other than i use gel-creams formulations here and thicker more occlusive ones in drier weather.
posted by cendawanita at 8:34 AM on March 10, 2022
Totally seconding all recommendations for sunscreen. As for retinoids, i believe that's why some brands also come out with pseudo-retinoids? Or whole ingredients with that chemical included in it's makeup. Paula's Choice has one (that I use) which is bakuchiol and a tiny bit of retinol. Pairing it with exfoliants (which i used to do nightly but these days it's every other night) does seem to restore some kind of glow (the youthful flush of new skin cells i guess) Fwiw i also have dry skin that will flake out if i don't actually at least put some moisturizer and/or serum on it once a day. Even being in a high-humidity tropical climate matters little, other than i use gel-creams formulations here and thicker more occlusive ones in drier weather.
posted by cendawanita at 8:34 AM on March 10, 2022
Also, bbqturtle, if you have the inclination to follow-up, I’m curious what you mean by “moisturizers almost never penetrate the skin.” How should one think about/approach treating dry skin, given this?
On a scientific level, most moisturizers that contains a chemical (let's say, vitamin C) won't see the vitamin C penetrate past the top layer of skin. So, for things on the outside of skin (acne, smoothness, glossiness, ability to adhere makeup), they could help, but for things inside the skin (like spots, drooping, thinness) they are probably overstating their helpfulness.
To answer your question, people talk about having dry or oily skin. Sometimes both. The challenge here is that we (consumers) don't have clear language to talk about these conditions, because a lot of the dialogue around skincare is made by marketing. What does it mean to have "brighter" or "glowing" skin?
So, dry skin can mean a lot. Depending on what you mean, there's a lot of choices. If you think it's dry because it's flaking, then you might need to exfoliate (with a wet washcloth) daily. If you think it's dry because of acne, that's usually a hormonal or diet issue - and it could mean you clean it too often. If you think it's dry because it's rough and cracking, you might need to increase your water intake throughout the day.
In general most people want a balance between skin oil and no skin oil. They don't want too much, or too little. Most products have only small impacts to that balance but often makeup removers or makeup itself can disrupt healthy oils, and replacing with moisturizer is a potential solution.
The hard thing about all of this is that we are discussing extremely minute changes to your skin that is presenting itself based on body fat, water consumption, food consumption, age, sunlight exposure, and hormones. Any number of things can disrupt the system. Even in person, it's really hard to determine exactly how to adjust all the balancing systems to get the results you want.
Tldr:
1. Drink more water. I recommend a liter bottle with straw.
2. Your body will usually regulate oils and water to not dry out your skin. Try not to wash your face too harshly and try not to disrupt that system as much as possible.
3. Redefine your objectives. How would you describe the skin if it were on your arm? Is the outcome you are targeting worth the time you are thinking about it vs focusing on something less aesthetic?
posted by bbqturtle at 8:46 AM on March 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
On a scientific level, most moisturizers that contains a chemical (let's say, vitamin C) won't see the vitamin C penetrate past the top layer of skin. So, for things on the outside of skin (acne, smoothness, glossiness, ability to adhere makeup), they could help, but for things inside the skin (like spots, drooping, thinness) they are probably overstating their helpfulness.
To answer your question, people talk about having dry or oily skin. Sometimes both. The challenge here is that we (consumers) don't have clear language to talk about these conditions, because a lot of the dialogue around skincare is made by marketing. What does it mean to have "brighter" or "glowing" skin?
So, dry skin can mean a lot. Depending on what you mean, there's a lot of choices. If you think it's dry because it's flaking, then you might need to exfoliate (with a wet washcloth) daily. If you think it's dry because of acne, that's usually a hormonal or diet issue - and it could mean you clean it too often. If you think it's dry because it's rough and cracking, you might need to increase your water intake throughout the day.
In general most people want a balance between skin oil and no skin oil. They don't want too much, or too little. Most products have only small impacts to that balance but often makeup removers or makeup itself can disrupt healthy oils, and replacing with moisturizer is a potential solution.
The hard thing about all of this is that we are discussing extremely minute changes to your skin that is presenting itself based on body fat, water consumption, food consumption, age, sunlight exposure, and hormones. Any number of things can disrupt the system. Even in person, it's really hard to determine exactly how to adjust all the balancing systems to get the results you want.
Tldr:
1. Drink more water. I recommend a liter bottle with straw.
2. Your body will usually regulate oils and water to not dry out your skin. Try not to wash your face too harshly and try not to disrupt that system as much as possible.
3. Redefine your objectives. How would you describe the skin if it were on your arm? Is the outcome you are targeting worth the time you are thinking about it vs focusing on something less aesthetic?
posted by bbqturtle at 8:46 AM on March 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
Hello! Another aging hipster who is squaring skincare with feminism here, lol. I've run the gamut in the last few years from a full Korean ten-step to water and sunscreen, currently at a fairly simple but also potent regimen. My skin tends combination, with a lot more dryness in the mix as I age. I am also taking spironolactone for acne, which dries things out a LOT. So this winter I have been doing:
A gentle toner to exfoliate -- every morning, every night. I use Son and Park's Beauty Water, it is zero sting, even on the dryest and most sensitive spots.
A snail mucin ampoule -- the goo factor really locks in moisture and the snail mucin is smoothing.
A moisturizer with SPF -- lots of it.
At night I wash my face with an olive oil cleanser to remove makeup; I skip it if I haven't been wearing makeup. I never use anything with suds, especially around the eyes, as that seems to be a one-way ticket to lizard skin.
EYE CREAM: I wear a separate eye cream because I love my SPF moisturizer but it stings the shit outta my eyes. I want to keep using it on my face, so I got a separate gentle eye cream that doesn't bother me. (Kiehl's avocado.) I do not believe in the magic of eye creams to anti-age or anything, but I do find it very soothing to put a cool thick cream under my eyes, especially on an early, tired morning.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:49 AM on March 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
A gentle toner to exfoliate -- every morning, every night. I use Son and Park's Beauty Water, it is zero sting, even on the dryest and most sensitive spots.
A snail mucin ampoule -- the goo factor really locks in moisture and the snail mucin is smoothing.
A moisturizer with SPF -- lots of it.
At night I wash my face with an olive oil cleanser to remove makeup; I skip it if I haven't been wearing makeup. I never use anything with suds, especially around the eyes, as that seems to be a one-way ticket to lizard skin.
EYE CREAM: I wear a separate eye cream because I love my SPF moisturizer but it stings the shit outta my eyes. I want to keep using it on my face, so I got a separate gentle eye cream that doesn't bother me. (Kiehl's avocado.) I do not believe in the magic of eye creams to anti-age or anything, but I do find it very soothing to put a cool thick cream under my eyes, especially on an early, tired morning.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:49 AM on March 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
OH, two edits:
-in the morning, unless my skin is just an absolute oil slick (which happens in summer), I do not wash my face with water--I just swipe the toner over face and neck before applying moisturizer. I was advised that this is less drying than a real wash.
-I use a retinol cream at night but it's a prescription, also targeting the acne. If you're sensitive and dried out I'd go light on the retinoids at least to start (or avoid altogether). But they do give me a nice glow nowadays, after a long ramp-up.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:54 AM on March 10, 2022
-in the morning, unless my skin is just an absolute oil slick (which happens in summer), I do not wash my face with water--I just swipe the toner over face and neck before applying moisturizer. I was advised that this is less drying than a real wash.
-I use a retinol cream at night but it's a prescription, also targeting the acne. If you're sensitive and dried out I'd go light on the retinoids at least to start (or avoid altogether). But they do give me a nice glow nowadays, after a long ramp-up.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:54 AM on March 10, 2022
LOL last one: basically, I got into all of this to finally wrangle a lifelong acne problem followed by a [shudder] shingles outbreak that left my face a disaster. The goal has never been to look younger, per se. However, last week a work acquaintance offhandedly said "well, I'm probably closer to your mother's age than to yours." Reader, she was two years older than I am. So...bonus.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:57 AM on March 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:57 AM on March 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
Agree with the recs to drink more water (advice I know is correct, but need to take myself).
My skin is drier with age as well, and I've switched to using a thicker night cream (in my case, First Aid Beauty's, but I have friends who just use straight CeraVe out of the tub).
For Daytime, I use CeraVe with sunblock, plus about six drops of (again) First Aid Beauty's oil, and then I spend about 30 minutes making coffee and breakfast before I do anything else to my face. Primer, powder, whatever, seems to go on smoothly over this combo for me.
I wash my face with CeraVe Foaming Facial Cleanser, first with warm water and the cleanser, and then I use a washcloth to buff my skin a bit for exfoliation.
I use a separate eye cream because the SPF in my every day stuff bothers my eyes -- i bounce around between Cetaphil, CeraVe, and Aveeno eye creams.
posted by Medieval Maven at 10:43 AM on March 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
My skin is drier with age as well, and I've switched to using a thicker night cream (in my case, First Aid Beauty's, but I have friends who just use straight CeraVe out of the tub).
For Daytime, I use CeraVe with sunblock, plus about six drops of (again) First Aid Beauty's oil, and then I spend about 30 minutes making coffee and breakfast before I do anything else to my face. Primer, powder, whatever, seems to go on smoothly over this combo for me.
I wash my face with CeraVe Foaming Facial Cleanser, first with warm water and the cleanser, and then I use a washcloth to buff my skin a bit for exfoliation.
I use a separate eye cream because the SPF in my every day stuff bothers my eyes -- i bounce around between Cetaphil, CeraVe, and Aveeno eye creams.
posted by Medieval Maven at 10:43 AM on March 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
+1 to The Ordinary Pycnogenol, it's not for eyes I don't think but I use a few drops under my makeup and it gives my washed out tone a bit of warmth and softens the skin.
posted by PaulaSchultz at 7:14 PM on March 10, 2022
posted by PaulaSchultz at 7:14 PM on March 10, 2022
This advice is counter to everyone else suggesting sunscreen at alllll times (OK, not entirely counter, don't burn, that's true!), but I found my skin is way less dry when I get more sun.
Turns out vitamin D deficiency... causes skin dryness.
So, you can probably fix that with taking vitamin D supplements, but for myself, getting 10 minutes of sun over my entire body (as naked as possible) just works way better for me.
Turns out most skin vitamin d production is in the first 10 minutes, which is usually a very different timeline to how long it takes you to burn.
Furthermore, I live in NZ - we have an ozone hole, you would not believe how easy it is to burn here (we get UV index 11 to *13* days here in summer, when it's not even hot). It's usually 8 around this time. I manage to get sun without burning, that's way easier in the rest of the world.
And yeah, people consistently think I'm a minimum 10 years younger than I am, but, probably genetics or something, I dunno.
posted by Elysum at 4:56 PM on March 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
Turns out vitamin D deficiency... causes skin dryness.
So, you can probably fix that with taking vitamin D supplements, but for myself, getting 10 minutes of sun over my entire body (as naked as possible) just works way better for me.
Turns out most skin vitamin d production is in the first 10 minutes, which is usually a very different timeline to how long it takes you to burn.
Furthermore, I live in NZ - we have an ozone hole, you would not believe how easy it is to burn here (we get UV index 11 to *13* days here in summer, when it's not even hot). It's usually 8 around this time. I manage to get sun without burning, that's way easier in the rest of the world.
And yeah, people consistently think I'm a minimum 10 years younger than I am, but, probably genetics or something, I dunno.
posted by Elysum at 4:56 PM on March 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
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