When do I give up on vaccinating a toddler?
March 8, 2022 7:25 PM Subscribe
I’ve kept my son isolated for the first year of his life to protect him from COVID. There’s no end in sight and I fear the isolation will eventually harm him more than the disease. When do I throw in the towel? (more inside)
My 12 month old son was born in a room full of masks. He has never been to a grocery store or watched a parade or met another baby. He will probably never meet his great grandfather who lives in a nursing home in a red state. His family is me, my wife, and characters on video chats who are probably no more real to him than Bingo and Rollie.
We waited for the end of the year when he could get vaccinated and this would be over. Then February. Now, when?
It’s clear now that we have to decide when. I’m pretty sure the risk to his mental health from four more years of isolation outweighs the risk to his physical health. That there will come a time when he will no longer be able to be who he could have been because we let his brain develop in too small of a world.
I don’t really believe he’s going to be the 452nd toddler in the US to die of COVID but I fear long haul symptoms or other complications. I don’t know how to weigh that. I don’t know where to draw the line.
My wife could probably be convinced to shut him in for four more years. I couldn’t, but I don’t know how to articulate my stance. I don’t know what my starting position should be for the negotiation.
So in your opinion, at what point will it become clear that our emergency is not the FDA’s emergency and it will be time to just start rolling the dice every day and send my little man out to collect all the exciting new variants he can find? As far as we know he’s a perfectly healthy baby, but everybody has some kind of comorbidity, right?
My 12 month old son was born in a room full of masks. He has never been to a grocery store or watched a parade or met another baby. He will probably never meet his great grandfather who lives in a nursing home in a red state. His family is me, my wife, and characters on video chats who are probably no more real to him than Bingo and Rollie.
We waited for the end of the year when he could get vaccinated and this would be over. Then February. Now, when?
It’s clear now that we have to decide when. I’m pretty sure the risk to his mental health from four more years of isolation outweighs the risk to his physical health. That there will come a time when he will no longer be able to be who he could have been because we let his brain develop in too small of a world.
I don’t really believe he’s going to be the 452nd toddler in the US to die of COVID but I fear long haul symptoms or other complications. I don’t know how to weigh that. I don’t know where to draw the line.
My wife could probably be convinced to shut him in for four more years. I couldn’t, but I don’t know how to articulate my stance. I don’t know what my starting position should be for the negotiation.
So in your opinion, at what point will it become clear that our emergency is not the FDA’s emergency and it will be time to just start rolling the dice every day and send my little man out to collect all the exciting new variants he can find? As far as we know he’s a perfectly healthy baby, but everybody has some kind of comorbidity, right?
Do you trust your pediatrician? If so, what does he or she have to say?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:40 PM on March 8, 2022 [25 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:40 PM on March 8, 2022 [25 favorites]
everybody has some kind of comorbidity, right?
...no? Where did you get that idea? Comorbidities are defined, specific maladies. You said he's healthy.
He's going to get various viruses as all healthy children do and he's going to be fine. Please let your child thrive in the world and have a normal life. Now's the time.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:43 PM on March 8, 2022 [17 favorites]
...no? Where did you get that idea? Comorbidities are defined, specific maladies. You said he's healthy.
He's going to get various viruses as all healthy children do and he's going to be fine. Please let your child thrive in the world and have a normal life. Now's the time.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:43 PM on March 8, 2022 [17 favorites]
I think there’s some middle ground here. Can you set up a small playgroup of like-minded people where the adults are vaccinated and you agree to stay home with sniffles? Can you start getting together with family you trust? Can you start to visit places at off-peak hours?
posted by warriorqueen at 7:48 PM on March 8, 2022 [44 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 7:48 PM on March 8, 2022 [44 favorites]
I'd say pick some future milestone at random and stick to it. That's what we're doing. Is there a school start date you want to hit? A family event you want to attend? My sister is getting married in a couple months and my toddler is in the wedding. No matter how vaccinated she is, she's getting on that plane. I have a couple months to wrap my head around it.
Please ignore the people on this thread acting like this is an obvious decision that doesn't take a huge toll on you as a parent, or like you're being unreasonable or paranoid. "It's gonna be fine" might be helpful to hear for some people but when you have rearranged your life around protecting your precious little bundle for so many months, it's not so simple for all of us to turn on a dime like we're being asked to do, and don't let anyone make you feel bad about that.
posted by potrzebie at 7:51 PM on March 8, 2022 [46 favorites]
Please ignore the people on this thread acting like this is an obvious decision that doesn't take a huge toll on you as a parent, or like you're being unreasonable or paranoid. "It's gonna be fine" might be helpful to hear for some people but when you have rearranged your life around protecting your precious little bundle for so many months, it's not so simple for all of us to turn on a dime like we're being asked to do, and don't let anyone make you feel bad about that.
posted by potrzebie at 7:51 PM on March 8, 2022 [46 favorites]
I fear long haul symptoms or other complications. I don’t know how to weigh that.
Do you think there are reasonable ways to avoid COVID that don't incur the mental health risks you perceive for your kid (and further, I think you perceive for yourself?)? If so, do those.
Once you have done that, there's nothing more you can do. Any risks have been mitigated to the extent possible, and perhaps the world just became a bit more dangerous for your kid and you. However, if all reasonable methods have been exhausted, and risks still remain, then those risks can and should be accepted. You likely routinely drive - despite driving a car being one of the riskiest activities adults partake in. You likely eat red meat - despite heart disease being the most likely way for you to die. You have accepted risk in the past, even though you likely didn't explicitly consider it.
You can do the same now. I'm fairly comfortable saying nothing in government policy or public opinion will shift in the foreseeable future in a way that will make you more comfortable with the risks you perceive. It's time to do the best you can in a way that's sustainable and reasonable for your family - and then accept what risk remains.
posted by saeculorum at 8:15 PM on March 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Do you think there are reasonable ways to avoid COVID that don't incur the mental health risks you perceive for your kid (and further, I think you perceive for yourself?)? If so, do those.
Once you have done that, there's nothing more you can do. Any risks have been mitigated to the extent possible, and perhaps the world just became a bit more dangerous for your kid and you. However, if all reasonable methods have been exhausted, and risks still remain, then those risks can and should be accepted. You likely routinely drive - despite driving a car being one of the riskiest activities adults partake in. You likely eat red meat - despite heart disease being the most likely way for you to die. You have accepted risk in the past, even though you likely didn't explicitly consider it.
You can do the same now. I'm fairly comfortable saying nothing in government policy or public opinion will shift in the foreseeable future in a way that will make you more comfortable with the risks you perceive. It's time to do the best you can in a way that's sustainable and reasonable for your family - and then accept what risk remains.
posted by saeculorum at 8:15 PM on March 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Do you live somewhere where Covid is genuinely not an issue anymore, or somwhere where people just want to pretend it's not an issue because they're tired of it? I think the answer to this question depends somewhat on the local situation. That being said, it's probably important at this point to have some sort of balance, and weigh the risks of Covid-related complications with the risks that isolation might have for his development. This random internet person thinks that you should start doing social stuff/play groups with a small group of people you trust, doing lots of stuff with your little one outside, and thinking about going places indoors that are not crowded/would have some benefits for him. I'd start by thinking about what benefits you think are most important for him and starting with activities that might provide those. There is definitely a ton of middle ground between business as usual and remaining totally isolated, and I think it is worth trying to find a balance that feels okay to you & your wife.
Also, like potrzebie said, be kind to yourself and your wife if it feels uncomfortable to start relaxing your isolation. You did it for good reasons, and to some extent those reasons still exist. But you've (correctly I think) determined that there are different risks to what you're doing now as well, and it's important to balance the risks/benefits as much as you can.
posted by DTMFA at 8:20 PM on March 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
Also, like potrzebie said, be kind to yourself and your wife if it feels uncomfortable to start relaxing your isolation. You did it for good reasons, and to some extent those reasons still exist. But you've (correctly I think) determined that there are different risks to what you're doing now as well, and it's important to balance the risks/benefits as much as you can.
posted by DTMFA at 8:20 PM on March 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
I think there’s some middle ground here.
This is what I was going to say, it's not all or nothing. You don't have to bring your toddler to, I don't know, a crowded indoor antivax party or something. Toddlers don't need to go to grocery stores for brain development but they would probably benefit from seeing more people and going to more places. Could you do more things outdoors with him, have small limited play dates, visit small groups of relatives who have been vaccinated and are on the careful side? You can make his world bigger without throwing him in the deep end. (I have a 7mo who has also never been in a grocery store, so I get it. We do see grandparents and some friends and regularly go for walks, which I think is ok for now.)
posted by omnie at 8:26 PM on March 8, 2022 [13 favorites]
This is what I was going to say, it's not all or nothing. You don't have to bring your toddler to, I don't know, a crowded indoor antivax party or something. Toddlers don't need to go to grocery stores for brain development but they would probably benefit from seeing more people and going to more places. Could you do more things outdoors with him, have small limited play dates, visit small groups of relatives who have been vaccinated and are on the careful side? You can make his world bigger without throwing him in the deep end. (I have a 7mo who has also never been in a grocery store, so I get it. We do see grandparents and some friends and regularly go for walks, which I think is ok for now.)
posted by omnie at 8:26 PM on March 8, 2022 [13 favorites]
You're not wrong for being concerned about the unknown effects of the disease. But I second that nothing is all or nothing. If everyone who wasn't convinced this was a problem just tried to give it a little consideration anyway we'd probably be in a much better place.
posted by bleep at 8:36 PM on March 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by bleep at 8:36 PM on March 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Ugh. We have a mid 2020 baby and I hear you. We take a "risk budget" approach, which I think is a concept I learned about on mefi. We get groceries click and collect but go to in person stuff that matters to us. We don't see her anti-vax grandparents regularly but did go to Grandma's 60th. (It's more the poisonous ideas than the "poisonous air", there though.)
Illness sucks in littles and I know for myself I just didn't want her to be sick at all which is an unrealistic expectation brought on by the illusion that I could control that.
Adding to others- it's really normal to feel this way. We've been in "protect at all costs" mode for so long. But there is a big middle ground full of joyful moments and relative safety.
posted by freethefeet at 8:42 PM on March 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
Illness sucks in littles and I know for myself I just didn't want her to be sick at all which is an unrealistic expectation brought on by the illusion that I could control that.
Adding to others- it's really normal to feel this way. We've been in "protect at all costs" mode for so long. But there is a big middle ground full of joyful moments and relative safety.
posted by freethefeet at 8:42 PM on March 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
I also have a pandemic baby. We kept our baby isolated until recently. What really flipped the switch in my brain was when I read the new study on the correlation between MS and Epstein Barr virus, which most people get infected with in their life times. That correlation is now studied and well established and yet no one I know is keeping their kids isolated to avoid Epstein Barr. It’s not perfect, but it was an interesting thought experiment for me to unpack that.
posted by PorcupineQuills at 8:51 PM on March 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by PorcupineQuills at 8:51 PM on March 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
I don’t really believe he’s going to be the 452nd toddler in the US to die of COVID but I fear long haul symptoms or other complications.
I think what we've seen from the evidence to date is that long Covid is very rare in toddlers. It definitely does happen in adolescents and even to some degree in children down to primary school age, but it's just not a significant risk for someone of your son's age. I think if long Covid was causing significant issues in toddlers, we definitely would know about it by now. This is also true of ME/CFS, which is a very similar, often post-viral, disease — ME/CFS is also basically unknown in toddlers.
If you're worried about yourself or your wife, that's very valid, but the risk to your kid is much, much lower than your own risk for long Covid.
I'm also continuing to be very careful right now, though there is no toddler in my life. I think we're seeing rates of infection in many places that are so high that they are bound to come down in the near future because so many people will have been infected recently (barring a new variant that escapes immunity, which is certainly possible). To me, being quite careful now is very reasonable because the level of infection in the community is similar to or higher than previous peaks in 2020 and 2021. There's a lot of infected people out there!
But I am planning to change my approach in the coming months as I expect cases will be a lot lower. If you think you can hold out for a couple months and then begin to open up, I think that's a very reasonable approach. These couple months might be the time you need to get more comfortable anyways and start to make changes as prevalence comes down.
posted by ssg at 9:13 PM on March 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think what we've seen from the evidence to date is that long Covid is very rare in toddlers. It definitely does happen in adolescents and even to some degree in children down to primary school age, but it's just not a significant risk for someone of your son's age. I think if long Covid was causing significant issues in toddlers, we definitely would know about it by now. This is also true of ME/CFS, which is a very similar, often post-viral, disease — ME/CFS is also basically unknown in toddlers.
If you're worried about yourself or your wife, that's very valid, but the risk to your kid is much, much lower than your own risk for long Covid.
I'm also continuing to be very careful right now, though there is no toddler in my life. I think we're seeing rates of infection in many places that are so high that they are bound to come down in the near future because so many people will have been infected recently (barring a new variant that escapes immunity, which is certainly possible). To me, being quite careful now is very reasonable because the level of infection in the community is similar to or higher than previous peaks in 2020 and 2021. There's a lot of infected people out there!
But I am planning to change my approach in the coming months as I expect cases will be a lot lower. If you think you can hold out for a couple months and then begin to open up, I think that's a very reasonable approach. These couple months might be the time you need to get more comfortable anyways and start to make changes as prevalence comes down.
posted by ssg at 9:13 PM on March 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
I’m quite worried about the under-fives in my orbit. Not for them individually, but because at least two of them have local grandparents who are immunocompromised and who look after them fairly often. I hesitate to spend time with these cool little kids because I worry about harming their family members through this vector. But the thing is that they all attend some kind of daycare or play group, they all have parents who work people-facing jobs or who spend time in busy places. Their parents, my friends, are either less concerned than I am or have made peace with it already. And their grandparents knowingly make these choices all the time, to be with their grandkids despite the risk. So I really need to calm down with my personal guilt trip and get back to being a weird auntie who does messy art projects and brings strange fruits and vegetables to try before these kids get big and realize that I’m not cool.
I guess I’m saying, if you aren’t worried too much about the adults in your kid’s life getting covid by way of toddler hugs, that’s when the benefits of socialization outweigh the risks, I think.
posted by Mizu at 9:32 PM on March 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
I guess I’m saying, if you aren’t worried too much about the adults in your kid’s life getting covid by way of toddler hugs, that’s when the benefits of socialization outweigh the risks, I think.
posted by Mizu at 9:32 PM on March 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
Microcovid's estimates are based on the idea of a risk budget. If you keep the kiddo's exposure (and your own) down below their recommended level per week then the chances of getting covid are in the neighborhood of less than 1% per year. Multiply that by the chances of anything really bad happening and it is quite small (although not zero).
I think the place to start is being outdoors with other people who are vaccinated or other small children who live in very careful bubbles. Microcovid.org estimates the risk of being outdoors is 1/20th the risk of being indoors.
Also, track what is happening in terms of the level of community prevalence. In my county, the rate is down to an average of 13 cases per day per 100,000 people. Things should be better in another month or so. When it gets down to low single digits, if you are in setting where there are just few other people, the chance that those specific people are caring COVID gets to be pretty small.
posted by metahawk at 9:34 PM on March 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think the place to start is being outdoors with other people who are vaccinated or other small children who live in very careful bubbles. Microcovid.org estimates the risk of being outdoors is 1/20th the risk of being indoors.
Also, track what is happening in terms of the level of community prevalence. In my county, the rate is down to an average of 13 cases per day per 100,000 people. Things should be better in another month or so. When it gets down to low single digits, if you are in setting where there are just few other people, the chance that those specific people are caring COVID gets to be pretty small.
posted by metahawk at 9:34 PM on March 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
... if you aren’t worried too much about the adults in your kid’s life getting covid by way of toddler hugs, that’s when the benefits of socialization outweigh the risks, I think.
This is where my mind immediately went on seeing this question. Your toddler is more likely to be a vector to pass COVID on to someone else than to suffer serious or long-term effects.
Obviously, there's more to this than just actual risks - your and your wife's concerns are absolutely valid and nobody can criticise you for being protective of a child you've had to wrap in cotton wool their entire life so far. Start with what you can deal with and move as quick or as slow as you all feel comfortable. Don't forget that your son will need to acclimatise to living in the big wide world as well and may well be nervous about being around lots of people to start with.
I like potrzebie's idea of setting a date to work towards being 'normal life day' to help keep some pressure on to progress.
posted by dg at 9:46 PM on March 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
This is where my mind immediately went on seeing this question. Your toddler is more likely to be a vector to pass COVID on to someone else than to suffer serious or long-term effects.
Obviously, there's more to this than just actual risks - your and your wife's concerns are absolutely valid and nobody can criticise you for being protective of a child you've had to wrap in cotton wool their entire life so far. Start with what you can deal with and move as quick or as slow as you all feel comfortable. Don't forget that your son will need to acclimatise to living in the big wide world as well and may well be nervous about being around lots of people to start with.
I like potrzebie's idea of setting a date to work towards being 'normal life day' to help keep some pressure on to progress.
posted by dg at 9:46 PM on March 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
My child had fallen far behind developmentally. She was showing most of the signs of autism; at 18 months she had made only physical advancements from 12 months.
Day care and therapy have her almost caught up in the last six months, but it was scary for a while. She needed different styles of interaction. We needed to be better too. I only hope my mistakes haven't cost her permanently. She's been sick regularly, but her being able to express herself had been critical to her happiness and growth.
posted by flimflam at 12:07 AM on March 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
Day care and therapy have her almost caught up in the last six months, but it was scary for a while. She needed different styles of interaction. We needed to be better too. I only hope my mistakes haven't cost her permanently. She's been sick regularly, but her being able to express herself had been critical to her happiness and growth.
posted by flimflam at 12:07 AM on March 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
Understanding Risk by Your Local Epidemiologist
posted by oceano at 12:55 AM on March 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by oceano at 12:55 AM on March 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
I agree with many here that it doesn't need to be all or nothing, but things like being careful with who you're with etc. are only going to work for so long, and you will be equally as devastated if the child does get COVID if you view yourself as "doing the right thing" to protect yourselves from it. At some level there needs to be an acceptance that it can/will happen, and rationalising your thoughts around that with what you are already concerned about with the child's development.
posted by ryanbryan at 3:10 AM on March 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by ryanbryan at 3:10 AM on March 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
My daughter is three.
We're on the cautious end of the spectrum, and will remain so until she can be vaccinated.
I stay home with her. We considered putting her in a day care part time for socializing, but opted not to do so. Both because of Covid, and because of the knock-on effects. Why pay money when the daycare closes a lot because of outbreaks and staffing issues?
But we do get her out and about, in reasonable ways that feel comfortable for us. Trips to the children's section of the library, errands, the park, visits from friends who we know are vaccinated and trustworthy. We mask up and go to well-ventilated places, or we stay outdoors.
It was far harder before masks were an option for her, but back then we stuck to outdoor activities.
It does feel like families with young children are among those left in Pandemia, making hard choices, while everyone else gets to decide they're over it and they're ready to move on.
As you make your decisions, you can keep in mind what I've said to every person who says "kids are low risk":
"If you won't be sitting at my child's bedside at 2 am, administering Tylenol and holding my hand, you don't get to tell me that I'm a worrywart."
posted by champers at 4:07 AM on March 9, 2022 [10 favorites]
We're on the cautious end of the spectrum, and will remain so until she can be vaccinated.
I stay home with her. We considered putting her in a day care part time for socializing, but opted not to do so. Both because of Covid, and because of the knock-on effects. Why pay money when the daycare closes a lot because of outbreaks and staffing issues?
But we do get her out and about, in reasonable ways that feel comfortable for us. Trips to the children's section of the library, errands, the park, visits from friends who we know are vaccinated and trustworthy. We mask up and go to well-ventilated places, or we stay outdoors.
It was far harder before masks were an option for her, but back then we stuck to outdoor activities.
It does feel like families with young children are among those left in Pandemia, making hard choices, while everyone else gets to decide they're over it and they're ready to move on.
As you make your decisions, you can keep in mind what I've said to every person who says "kids are low risk":
"If you won't be sitting at my child's bedside at 2 am, administering Tylenol and holding my hand, you don't get to tell me that I'm a worrywart."
posted by champers at 4:07 AM on March 9, 2022 [10 favorites]
Parent of a 2 year old here. The responses you have gotten here about "kids needing to get out" and "covid doesn't hurt little kids" are what we hear all the time and are absolutely enraging. OP is stating that they DO consider covid to be a risk, but the (vaccinated) adults are tired of wearing masks and can't be bothered to accommodate small children and their families so they have declared the pandemic over. I could have written this exact post one year ago, when adults were just starting to get vaccines, and the advice here would have been much more cautious then even though that was before delta and omicron.
The Moderna vaccine trials for kids 2-5 will be completed this month, and the Pfizer expanded study (3 doses) will be out in April. The Pfizer 2-dose regimen for 6-24 months was found to be effective at both preventing infection and serious illness; the 2-dose for 2-4 years was found to be effective at preventing serious illness but not infection. It is important to note how the variants have changed the baselines for vaccine effectiveness--pre-delta, when the 5-11 trials were going, Pfizer prevented both infection and serious illness; a recent omicron-era study found that same age group is still protected against serious illness but loses protection against infection after only one month. So it is likely in April your kid will be able to receive a vaccine that will prevent serious illness, but not prevent infections entirely.
I would not change anything your are doing until April. It is so, so close and you shouldn't have to wait long to get your kid a shot since it's the same vaccine at a lower dose so everyone has it already.
At that point your kid will be protected from serious illness. It will also be spring (assuming you are in the northern hemisphere) which means there are a lot more outdoor activities. Your kid is old enough to explore playgrounds this year so bring your kid to various playgrounds and let them explore and be around other kids. I find outdoor activities to be low risk, because even when the kids get close they usually don't stay close for more than a minute. Also see if there are any outdoor classes you can join--it's probably time to sign up for summer swim lessons (seriously you need to be ready the second registration opens, the baby swim classes fill up fast), see if your municipal recreation program has anything (nature hikes, outdoor story time at the library, etc.), Google and call toddler activity centers (in my area My Gym has outdoor classes) and see if they will offer anything in the spring. We met a few parents with kids a little older than ours either while walking our dogs or at the community playground or at one of the toddler classes and set up outdoor playdates. We've also arranged a few playdates with our friends kids, but most of them are much older so it wasn't a good match.
At 18 months, kiddo was ready to start practicing with a mask. We would wear it into lower risk environments (indoor places that were fairly empty and ventilated), and kiddo would sign "all done" when they needed to take the mask off. Of course the parents were also watching for signs of breathing difficulties, and as the kid became able to mask longer we did have to enforce "mask breaks" when it seemed kid was getting a little tired/grumpy/hot/mask-getting-sucked-into-mouth-y. At 25 months kid can now wear a mask for 2 hours while visiting a museum and only has trouble if it's too warm so we make sure to dress a little cool for long indoor activities. Now we take kid anywhere except restaurants, but we try to go during non-peak times. Our mask mandate just ended and most people have still been masking, so we're hoping that continues. If not, we will probably go back to avoiding indoor areas unless it is well ventilated and fairly empty, at least until kiddo is vaccinated.
We will all likely be wearing masks indoors at all times for the foreseeable future. The next indoor, unmasked event I foresee is a Thanksgiving which is too far away to predict. We don't plan on getting on an airplane any time soon. We do plan for our kid to start preschool part time next September to adjust to being away from us and around other kids before kindergarten.
I recommend following @parentlikeapediatrician on Instagram. It is the best single source of info and support for parents of kids under 5.
posted by jessica fletcher did it at 6:13 AM on March 9, 2022 [21 favorites]
The Moderna vaccine trials for kids 2-5 will be completed this month, and the Pfizer expanded study (3 doses) will be out in April. The Pfizer 2-dose regimen for 6-24 months was found to be effective at both preventing infection and serious illness; the 2-dose for 2-4 years was found to be effective at preventing serious illness but not infection. It is important to note how the variants have changed the baselines for vaccine effectiveness--pre-delta, when the 5-11 trials were going, Pfizer prevented both infection and serious illness; a recent omicron-era study found that same age group is still protected against serious illness but loses protection against infection after only one month. So it is likely in April your kid will be able to receive a vaccine that will prevent serious illness, but not prevent infections entirely.
I would not change anything your are doing until April. It is so, so close and you shouldn't have to wait long to get your kid a shot since it's the same vaccine at a lower dose so everyone has it already.
At that point your kid will be protected from serious illness. It will also be spring (assuming you are in the northern hemisphere) which means there are a lot more outdoor activities. Your kid is old enough to explore playgrounds this year so bring your kid to various playgrounds and let them explore and be around other kids. I find outdoor activities to be low risk, because even when the kids get close they usually don't stay close for more than a minute. Also see if there are any outdoor classes you can join--it's probably time to sign up for summer swim lessons (seriously you need to be ready the second registration opens, the baby swim classes fill up fast), see if your municipal recreation program has anything (nature hikes, outdoor story time at the library, etc.), Google and call toddler activity centers (in my area My Gym has outdoor classes) and see if they will offer anything in the spring. We met a few parents with kids a little older than ours either while walking our dogs or at the community playground or at one of the toddler classes and set up outdoor playdates. We've also arranged a few playdates with our friends kids, but most of them are much older so it wasn't a good match.
At 18 months, kiddo was ready to start practicing with a mask. We would wear it into lower risk environments (indoor places that were fairly empty and ventilated), and kiddo would sign "all done" when they needed to take the mask off. Of course the parents were also watching for signs of breathing difficulties, and as the kid became able to mask longer we did have to enforce "mask breaks" when it seemed kid was getting a little tired/grumpy/hot/mask-getting-sucked-into-mouth-y. At 25 months kid can now wear a mask for 2 hours while visiting a museum and only has trouble if it's too warm so we make sure to dress a little cool for long indoor activities. Now we take kid anywhere except restaurants, but we try to go during non-peak times. Our mask mandate just ended and most people have still been masking, so we're hoping that continues. If not, we will probably go back to avoiding indoor areas unless it is well ventilated and fairly empty, at least until kiddo is vaccinated.
We will all likely be wearing masks indoors at all times for the foreseeable future. The next indoor, unmasked event I foresee is a Thanksgiving which is too far away to predict. We don't plan on getting on an airplane any time soon. We do plan for our kid to start preschool part time next September to adjust to being away from us and around other kids before kindergarten.
I recommend following @parentlikeapediatrician on Instagram. It is the best single source of info and support for parents of kids under 5.
posted by jessica fletcher did it at 6:13 AM on March 9, 2022 [21 favorites]
(Also, since you have all been isolating so long, I will warn you that the first common cold you are exposed to will suck because your immune systems aren't ready for it--even the adults. Unlike covid, you can get a cold from touching germy playground equipment. Make sure you have on hand whatever cold drugs you need for the adults to function, and be aware kiddo will be grumpy and may have trouble sleeping for a few days.)
posted by jessica fletcher did it at 6:37 AM on March 9, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by jessica fletcher did it at 6:37 AM on March 9, 2022 [7 favorites]
Career educator and grandparent of a two-year-old here. There is no hurry right now, for various reasons, none of them having to do with COVID risk for your child. In my opinion:
1. Mask mandates just ended, and I anticipate spikes in the near future. Depending on your area, infections in children are a higher risk for adults than for the children. If you have a child, the child will give you every infection under the sun (as a teacher, I cycled through all of them in the first months of the school year every year and routinely ended up on antibiotics for bronchial infections by December). If you have anyone at high risk, or if you fear long COVID yourself, hold off for a while. We have an elderly family member with stage 4 cancer, and I am older and have asthma, so we continue to "bubble" to a certain degree so I can provide child care.
2. Early toddlers do not need to be around other children to be mentally and socially healthy, and at your child's age the benefits of day care aren't that huge. Yeah, they are interested in other children, but they can do just fine being around adults all the time. In a literate family with lots of conversation and exposure to books and interaction with human being, a child will have more language acquisition and basic concepts than if they went to day care, where the adult-to-child ration is less advantageous. Head Start was brought in to benefit kids who weren't exposed to strong literacy practices early on, and has been shown to be effective for kids like that, but unfortunately many parents have bought into the message as if it was meant for them. If you're writing a literate FPP you're probably not what that was aimed at.
3. Mental health for a one-year-old is based on secure versus insecure attachment with parents, not with interaction with other children. A child who is confident that their parents or other adults are there for them will do well socially and mentally later on.
4. You can go outside to playgrounds if you want a child to interact with other kids. We have made the calculation that museums and zoos are large enough spaces that are well enough ventilated that the risk of infection is low. Yesterday I was out at a playground watching my "isolated" grandchild career around interacting in the vestigial two-year-old pattern ("parallel play") with other kids, and for a two-year-old he's just fine. A two-and-a-half-year-old was talking to him in a much more advanced way because the difference between two and two-and-a-half is pretty big.
posted by Peach at 6:51 AM on March 9, 2022 [7 favorites]
1. Mask mandates just ended, and I anticipate spikes in the near future. Depending on your area, infections in children are a higher risk for adults than for the children. If you have a child, the child will give you every infection under the sun (as a teacher, I cycled through all of them in the first months of the school year every year and routinely ended up on antibiotics for bronchial infections by December). If you have anyone at high risk, or if you fear long COVID yourself, hold off for a while. We have an elderly family member with stage 4 cancer, and I am older and have asthma, so we continue to "bubble" to a certain degree so I can provide child care.
2. Early toddlers do not need to be around other children to be mentally and socially healthy, and at your child's age the benefits of day care aren't that huge. Yeah, they are interested in other children, but they can do just fine being around adults all the time. In a literate family with lots of conversation and exposure to books and interaction with human being, a child will have more language acquisition and basic concepts than if they went to day care, where the adult-to-child ration is less advantageous. Head Start was brought in to benefit kids who weren't exposed to strong literacy practices early on, and has been shown to be effective for kids like that, but unfortunately many parents have bought into the message as if it was meant for them. If you're writing a literate FPP you're probably not what that was aimed at.
3. Mental health for a one-year-old is based on secure versus insecure attachment with parents, not with interaction with other children. A child who is confident that their parents or other adults are there for them will do well socially and mentally later on.
4. You can go outside to playgrounds if you want a child to interact with other kids. We have made the calculation that museums and zoos are large enough spaces that are well enough ventilated that the risk of infection is low. Yesterday I was out at a playground watching my "isolated" grandchild career around interacting in the vestigial two-year-old pattern ("parallel play") with other kids, and for a two-year-old he's just fine. A two-and-a-half-year-old was talking to him in a much more advanced way because the difference between two and two-and-a-half is pretty big.
posted by Peach at 6:51 AM on March 9, 2022 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: I don't know the etiquette associated with answering follow up questions so I'll just kind of list responses from top to bottom, skipping a few.
- We trust our pediatrician. When we talked to him at the 9-month checkup he said he'd do what we're doing if he could, but he has four kids and he and his wife both work full time so he has no alternative but to send them to school.
- I misused the term "comorbidity," but everybody has physical quirks and defects. The baby can't eat rice. We couldn't have known that until the second time we fed him rice and all three of us got to take an emergency shower. Does he have some condition that turns out to be a risk factor for COVID complications that we couldn't have known about until he got infected? I'd prefer not to find out.
- I don't really have peers with similar-aged children. Everyone I know within several hours travel either doesn't have kids or has kids in college. It's a thing that happens when you wait a weirdly long time to have your first.
- I live in North Carolina and am from Tennessee, and every geographical stereotype you've heard about attitudes regarding the pandemic is true.
- My parents are long dead but my wife's mother is a public pre-K teacher who is always either at work or Wal-Mart every time we call her with no mask. She of course wore it all day but now her face is tired and she just needed a little break. My wife's sister and her husband work in a prison, and most of the rest of the family are nurses or paramedics, so visiting family feels pretty high risk. To give you an idea of how seriously we took isolation from them, my wife kept the entire pregnancy secret from her family because the best way to keep them from visiting was to give them no reason to do so. We called them from the hospital the next day. It was fun.
- I'm not worried about adults my son might infect. I've spent over two years now watching absolutely no one around me care if I live or die and I return the favor with interest.
- Absolutely once he's vaccinated we're going to let him do anything his peers are doing. We'll consider risk to be as mitigated as it's going to get, but we're not there yet.
- As far as all-or-nothing thinking goes, I am, but the decision kind of is? Breaking quarantine - meeting his family, involves close contact with Tennesseans who either work in education, health care, or corrections. His risk goes from as close to zero as I can get it to a facefull of air coming out of people who I have absolute faith have been exposed within the last week.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 9:09 AM on March 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
- We trust our pediatrician. When we talked to him at the 9-month checkup he said he'd do what we're doing if he could, but he has four kids and he and his wife both work full time so he has no alternative but to send them to school.
- I misused the term "comorbidity," but everybody has physical quirks and defects. The baby can't eat rice. We couldn't have known that until the second time we fed him rice and all three of us got to take an emergency shower. Does he have some condition that turns out to be a risk factor for COVID complications that we couldn't have known about until he got infected? I'd prefer not to find out.
- I don't really have peers with similar-aged children. Everyone I know within several hours travel either doesn't have kids or has kids in college. It's a thing that happens when you wait a weirdly long time to have your first.
- I live in North Carolina and am from Tennessee, and every geographical stereotype you've heard about attitudes regarding the pandemic is true.
- My parents are long dead but my wife's mother is a public pre-K teacher who is always either at work or Wal-Mart every time we call her with no mask. She of course wore it all day but now her face is tired and she just needed a little break. My wife's sister and her husband work in a prison, and most of the rest of the family are nurses or paramedics, so visiting family feels pretty high risk. To give you an idea of how seriously we took isolation from them, my wife kept the entire pregnancy secret from her family because the best way to keep them from visiting was to give them no reason to do so. We called them from the hospital the next day. It was fun.
- I'm not worried about adults my son might infect. I've spent over two years now watching absolutely no one around me care if I live or die and I return the favor with interest.
- Absolutely once he's vaccinated we're going to let him do anything his peers are doing. We'll consider risk to be as mitigated as it's going to get, but we're not there yet.
- As far as all-or-nothing thinking goes, I am, but the decision kind of is? Breaking quarantine - meeting his family, involves close contact with Tennesseans who either work in education, health care, or corrections. His risk goes from as close to zero as I can get it to a facefull of air coming out of people who I have absolute faith have been exposed within the last week.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 9:09 AM on March 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
Reading your update, I'm slightly more concerned about your mental health than your 1-year-old's. But that's the thing about parent groups/family support, they are there to support parents as well as kids' social development.
Emotional stuff:
Before I write down the rest, I do think part of your journey will be accepting a non-zero risk and that's hard and professional support might be the best approach, especially if you don't agree on where the line is. I have lost a child, and so for me all I can share is this...I never, ever want to go through that again, and since my baby died in part due to an overwhelmed L&D ward, Covid has been a particular nightmare where hospital capacity has been strained.
And yet, at the very end of the day, what losing my daughter taught me is that what I wanted most for her was to live. Her birthday is coming up this weekend and she would be 18 (holy shit.)
I would want for her to have had a great high school experience, to be spreading her wings into adulthood, to have friends and maybe start having lovers and to be seeing the world. I would also not want her impaired by Covid. I would not have been able to control all those things. So far we've been okay.
Since losing my child, my subsequent children have had emergency life-saving surgeries, have nearly been hit by cars, have had croup and asthma. I've had whooping cough despite a vaccine. It's all hard and for me, I don't get to imagine that I can keep them safe -- I know how fragile our lives are. So I just do my best. I am not a Covid expert and even the experts aren't experts. I try to find a line between "perfect" (impossible) and "dangerous."
I have been happy to sometimes draw the line for my kids one way (we opted for virtual school last school year) and sometimes the other (we opted for in-person this year, although I held my child out a couple of weeks to get vaccinated in January which is when we got them for 5-12s.) If the information about kid vaccines above is accurate I see no harm in waiting a couple more months. But I wouldn't plan for 4 years. Maybe what you need most now is an agreement on "if no vaccine for 6 more months what then."
Practical stuff:
I think given the parameters you've stated, I wonder what the weather will permit in your area and I'd encourage you to get to playgrounds or other child-oriented outdoor spaces as a start, both to acclimatize yourselves and to give your child a slightly broader world, as well as give yourselves those changes to start being in community with other parents.
(I also agree that until your child is 3 it probably is not an emergency, unless you are noticing missed milestones.)
I'd also suggest that outside socialization with your family might be great. And although rapid tests aren't 100%, they are an additional layer of protection. I have elderly parents with serious cardiovascular issues and our protocol in non-winter weather is that we meet outdoors, and if it's going to be for a while those of us who have higher-risk jobs/school/etc rapid test that morning. If we're going for a walk in a breezy area or at the beach, we don't worry as much. Maybe those are some ideas for you.
Given the description of your family...have they had Covid? Because if not, their protocols might be pretty good (especially for an outdoor visit situation.)
I waited a while to have kids too, but there were a ton of moms groups in my area and over Covid, still are. I don't live in your area, obviously, and the demographic here is quite different. But I would hazard a guess that there are, somewhere, a few like-minded parents with same concerns around you, who also would love to find a way to navigate together with your kid and theirs.
Places to find parents: online groups, playground, local school board, children's bookstore, queer-friendly bookstore, etc.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:40 AM on March 9, 2022 [9 favorites]
Emotional stuff:
Before I write down the rest, I do think part of your journey will be accepting a non-zero risk and that's hard and professional support might be the best approach, especially if you don't agree on where the line is. I have lost a child, and so for me all I can share is this...I never, ever want to go through that again, and since my baby died in part due to an overwhelmed L&D ward, Covid has been a particular nightmare where hospital capacity has been strained.
And yet, at the very end of the day, what losing my daughter taught me is that what I wanted most for her was to live. Her birthday is coming up this weekend and she would be 18 (holy shit.)
I would want for her to have had a great high school experience, to be spreading her wings into adulthood, to have friends and maybe start having lovers and to be seeing the world. I would also not want her impaired by Covid. I would not have been able to control all those things. So far we've been okay.
Since losing my child, my subsequent children have had emergency life-saving surgeries, have nearly been hit by cars, have had croup and asthma. I've had whooping cough despite a vaccine. It's all hard and for me, I don't get to imagine that I can keep them safe -- I know how fragile our lives are. So I just do my best. I am not a Covid expert and even the experts aren't experts. I try to find a line between "perfect" (impossible) and "dangerous."
I have been happy to sometimes draw the line for my kids one way (we opted for virtual school last school year) and sometimes the other (we opted for in-person this year, although I held my child out a couple of weeks to get vaccinated in January which is when we got them for 5-12s.) If the information about kid vaccines above is accurate I see no harm in waiting a couple more months. But I wouldn't plan for 4 years. Maybe what you need most now is an agreement on "if no vaccine for 6 more months what then."
Practical stuff:
I think given the parameters you've stated, I wonder what the weather will permit in your area and I'd encourage you to get to playgrounds or other child-oriented outdoor spaces as a start, both to acclimatize yourselves and to give your child a slightly broader world, as well as give yourselves those changes to start being in community with other parents.
(I also agree that until your child is 3 it probably is not an emergency, unless you are noticing missed milestones.)
I'd also suggest that outside socialization with your family might be great. And although rapid tests aren't 100%, they are an additional layer of protection. I have elderly parents with serious cardiovascular issues and our protocol in non-winter weather is that we meet outdoors, and if it's going to be for a while those of us who have higher-risk jobs/school/etc rapid test that morning. If we're going for a walk in a breezy area or at the beach, we don't worry as much. Maybe those are some ideas for you.
Given the description of your family...have they had Covid? Because if not, their protocols might be pretty good (especially for an outdoor visit situation.)
I waited a while to have kids too, but there were a ton of moms groups in my area and over Covid, still are. I don't live in your area, obviously, and the demographic here is quite different. But I would hazard a guess that there are, somewhere, a few like-minded parents with same concerns around you, who also would love to find a way to navigate together with your kid and theirs.
Places to find parents: online groups, playground, local school board, children's bookstore, queer-friendly bookstore, etc.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:40 AM on March 9, 2022 [9 favorites]
Were you originally planning to send your child to preschool? At age 2, or 3? Aim for that. In the meantime, play at parks, say hi to people, go to the farmer's market, watch a parade if you want (most babies don't like parades). Go to the petting zoo, the lake, the pond, the beach, the sprinkler. There's plenty to learn from in the world.
If you want him to spend time with the broader family, it's probably safest to wait for a <5 vaccine and do it then, because people get up in children's faces and pick them up, share forks, etc. I just think it'd be anxiety-producing to see family but then be hyperaware of how close they were to the child. But, our family is geographically distant so our kid only sees them once a year anyway, and this is our normal. I don't consider it damaging to not see family.
posted by xo at 9:47 AM on March 9, 2022
If you want him to spend time with the broader family, it's probably safest to wait for a <5 vaccine and do it then, because people get up in children's faces and pick them up, share forks, etc. I just think it'd be anxiety-producing to see family but then be hyperaware of how close they were to the child. But, our family is geographically distant so our kid only sees them once a year anyway, and this is our normal. I don't consider it damaging to not see family.
posted by xo at 9:47 AM on March 9, 2022
Response by poster: Thanks, but I think my mental health is not much different from what it has always been. I've done a lot of things and met a lot of people in my life and now there are no things or people but it's okay. I'm angry, but I'm still letting that build a good head before I let it start motivating me. In the meantime there's nothing less interesting than a middle class white guy's anger.
My wife's family are almost all vaccinated except for her first husband who won't let their ten year old get the shot. They've also all been infected, including breakthrough infections after vaccination for most of them. The ten year old has had it three times.
We were thinking about preschool, but I couldn't sell my wife on preschool without vaccination first.
He's not missing milestones although we disagree about whether he recognizes his name or simply responds to hearing a voice. That was our big concern ahead of the 12-month checkup. The doctor said not to worry given that his physical skills are developing well. He's not walking without holding on to something yet but he's also a 31 inch, 24 pound giant and it's scary up there.
We live next door to a park and go when weather permits. He crawls around on the grass or pushes his wagon, but we haven't had him near the swings and slides area. Given what we all now know about surface transmission it's probably time to relax that.
Since reading this thread the first time I texted my wife and got her to agree that we will sign him up now for swim class in mid-June with the proviso that we will probably cancel if he can't get vaccinated by then.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 10:08 AM on March 9, 2022 [9 favorites]
My wife's family are almost all vaccinated except for her first husband who won't let their ten year old get the shot. They've also all been infected, including breakthrough infections after vaccination for most of them. The ten year old has had it three times.
We were thinking about preschool, but I couldn't sell my wife on preschool without vaccination first.
He's not missing milestones although we disagree about whether he recognizes his name or simply responds to hearing a voice. That was our big concern ahead of the 12-month checkup. The doctor said not to worry given that his physical skills are developing well. He's not walking without holding on to something yet but he's also a 31 inch, 24 pound giant and it's scary up there.
We live next door to a park and go when weather permits. He crawls around on the grass or pushes his wagon, but we haven't had him near the swings and slides area. Given what we all now know about surface transmission it's probably time to relax that.
Since reading this thread the first time I texted my wife and got her to agree that we will sign him up now for swim class in mid-June with the proviso that we will probably cancel if he can't get vaccinated by then.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 10:08 AM on March 9, 2022 [9 favorites]
Here's a deep dive into the sticky issue of long covid in children.. Because it depends so heavily on symptom reporting, it's quite murky.
posted by Dashy at 11:26 AM on March 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 11:26 AM on March 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
Early toddlers do not need to be around other children to be mentally and socially healthy, and at your child's age the benefits of day care aren't that huge.
I don't know if this comment is based on anything medically sound, but I don't quite agree. Little kids of all ages are seemingly fascinated by other little kids, and since he'll need to learn to interact with peers and youngers and olders very soon, I say, the sooner the better. Even just outside playground interaction, even at a distance would be a good start. Expand your child's world. Now is the time.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:59 AM on March 10, 2022
I don't know if this comment is based on anything medically sound, but I don't quite agree. Little kids of all ages are seemingly fascinated by other little kids, and since he'll need to learn to interact with peers and youngers and olders very soon, I say, the sooner the better. Even just outside playground interaction, even at a distance would be a good start. Expand your child's world. Now is the time.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:59 AM on March 10, 2022
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by goingonit at 7:38 PM on March 8, 2022 [31 favorites]