Worried about Mom’s drinking
February 3, 2022 12:31 PM Subscribe
My mother is in her mid 70s and has always enjoyed drinking. Growing up as a child, she started drinking as soon as she got home from work at 4pm, and drank until dinner time. I don’t have very many memories of her being out right drunk, but for my entire life she had a minimum of three glasses of wine every day. I am in my 30s now and living independently but I recently had to spend about a month living with my parents and I’m concerned about my mom’s drinking. I don’t know if I’m blowing it out of proportion, and if I’m not I don’t know what to do about it.
She starts drinking at exactly 1pm everyday and drinks at least a bottle of wine, potentially more but I am unsure. My dad buys the wine she likes by the case. I would know it was 1pm because I would hear the bottle pop open. One day when I went down to talk to her she had the bottle with her in the living room, like she couldn’t even be bothered to get up and go the fridge to get it. She drinks from about 1pm to about 6 or 7 in the evening and then switches over to seltzer. She’s not drinking to the point where she is stumbling or slurring her words, but she is definitely not sober. If we have a conversation during this time she has a difficult time remembering what I tell her. For example if I tell her “In April, Bobby and I have plans to hike Mount Greene”, she will ask me an hour later when Bobby and I are planning on hiking Mt. Greene. Her head gets droopy, and she eats very sloppily which is unlike her. It kind of grosses me out to watch her eat. And she just sort of seems dazed and slow at times. But she doesn’t seem totally inebriated or anything. Just, not like my mom as I know her between the hours of 8am-1pm. She is also almost constantly burping and clearing her throat. I asked her about it and she says she has to clear her throat in the morning, but it goes on all day long, almost continuously - as does the burping. I’ve asked her if she’s thought about getting them checked out by the doctor but she says she’s afraid to go into the doctors because of COVID.
I love my mom, and we have good relationship. She loves me a lot, and I think she would do almost anything for me. But what scares me a bit is I think if I told her that I thought her drinking was a bit out of hand, and impacting me wanting to be around her, I think she would deny having a problem.
The other bit of this is that my dad drinks a lot too. But not as much as my mom, and it doesn’t seem to effect him the way it does her. A couple times he has said to me that he thinks they should cut back a bit, and I’ve said that’s a great idea but then nothing comes of it.
I want to talk to them about of it, but honestly I feel a bit ashamed and embarrassed. I’m not even really sure it’s a problem? I mean, it has been this way for so many years and they manage the house, all the bills get paid, they help me out. I don’t think anyone would ever suspect something like this. And we come from a very hard drinking family. And I personally don’t drink, because I’ve been put off of it by seeing how it’s negatively impacted other people close to me, and I don’t like how it makes me feel. So I can’t tell if I’m just being a teetotaler.
So the questions are, does this sound like something that could be a problem and if so what, what can I do?
She starts drinking at exactly 1pm everyday and drinks at least a bottle of wine, potentially more but I am unsure. My dad buys the wine she likes by the case. I would know it was 1pm because I would hear the bottle pop open. One day when I went down to talk to her she had the bottle with her in the living room, like she couldn’t even be bothered to get up and go the fridge to get it. She drinks from about 1pm to about 6 or 7 in the evening and then switches over to seltzer. She’s not drinking to the point where she is stumbling or slurring her words, but she is definitely not sober. If we have a conversation during this time she has a difficult time remembering what I tell her. For example if I tell her “In April, Bobby and I have plans to hike Mount Greene”, she will ask me an hour later when Bobby and I are planning on hiking Mt. Greene. Her head gets droopy, and she eats very sloppily which is unlike her. It kind of grosses me out to watch her eat. And she just sort of seems dazed and slow at times. But she doesn’t seem totally inebriated or anything. Just, not like my mom as I know her between the hours of 8am-1pm. She is also almost constantly burping and clearing her throat. I asked her about it and she says she has to clear her throat in the morning, but it goes on all day long, almost continuously - as does the burping. I’ve asked her if she’s thought about getting them checked out by the doctor but she says she’s afraid to go into the doctors because of COVID.
I love my mom, and we have good relationship. She loves me a lot, and I think she would do almost anything for me. But what scares me a bit is I think if I told her that I thought her drinking was a bit out of hand, and impacting me wanting to be around her, I think she would deny having a problem.
The other bit of this is that my dad drinks a lot too. But not as much as my mom, and it doesn’t seem to effect him the way it does her. A couple times he has said to me that he thinks they should cut back a bit, and I’ve said that’s a great idea but then nothing comes of it.
I want to talk to them about of it, but honestly I feel a bit ashamed and embarrassed. I’m not even really sure it’s a problem? I mean, it has been this way for so many years and they manage the house, all the bills get paid, they help me out. I don’t think anyone would ever suspect something like this. And we come from a very hard drinking family. And I personally don’t drink, because I’ve been put off of it by seeing how it’s negatively impacted other people close to me, and I don’t like how it makes me feel. So I can’t tell if I’m just being a teetotaler.
So the questions are, does this sound like something that could be a problem and if so what, what can I do?
This is definitely a problem. There is no safe level of alcohol and this is a lot of daily booze. She's either an alcoholic or a "problem drinker". I would say it's very likely she has a physical dependence. The burping and clearing of the throat could be GERD.
Their drinking is their problem. They would have to be the reason to quit or cut back. There is no shame in expressing concern -- "Mom, I love you and I'm worried about your drinking." You can create boundaries for yourself -- like choosing not to socialize when your mom is inebriated, etc.
The other bit of this is that my dad drinks a lot too. But not as much as my mom, and it doesn’t seem to effect him the way it does her. A couple times he has said to me that he thinks they should cut back a bit, and I’ve said that’s a great idea but then nothing comes of it.
Alcohol affects women differently than men.
posted by loveandhappiness at 1:18 PM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Their drinking is their problem. They would have to be the reason to quit or cut back. There is no shame in expressing concern -- "Mom, I love you and I'm worried about your drinking." You can create boundaries for yourself -- like choosing not to socialize when your mom is inebriated, etc.
The other bit of this is that my dad drinks a lot too. But not as much as my mom, and it doesn’t seem to effect him the way it does her. A couple times he has said to me that he thinks they should cut back a bit, and I’ve said that’s a great idea but then nothing comes of it.
Alcohol affects women differently than men.
posted by loveandhappiness at 1:18 PM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Sorry that you are in this position. Yes, 30 bottles of wine a month is a lot of wine to drink. A lot of wine. Safe guess is 4-5 glasses a night. If I recall my visit with my doctor, they asked if I had 2-3 drinks a week. So 30+ glasses a week. 1500+ glasses a year. A lot of wine. I break it down this way because folks who are drinking aren't going to see it as the macro. They are drinking a glass of wine. Period. That was the rationalization that I struggled with.
Reiterating what @plonkee said (and is spot on) your mom has to understand and want a different outcome in order to change. It is difficult to be a bystander in these situations. Al-Anon has some great support materials for family members of people who struggle with alcohol.
One can function adequately (pay bills, maintain the house, etc.) and have a problem drinking...until you can't...this is the outcome of addiction. Alcohol works great to relieve your stress...until it doesn't work anymore...but you want more...only to discover it doesn't work anymore...so you try it again...repeated and repeated. It is a very challenging addiction in that there is such wide social acceptance of drinking. The person who really needs assistance is getting the message, daily, that alcohol is just fine. I struggled to accept that there are some people who just can't drink.
A great way to start is by her talking to a primary care physician, honestly, about her level of drinking and get an honest bit of counsel. What does it mean to drink a bottle of wine a day? What are the longer term impacts? I like that it is a neutral, third party who is solely concerned with your health an well being. No emotional baggage.
Be kind to yourself as you navigate these seas. Do the best you can but remember that only she controls the outcome. I wish you well.
posted by zerobyproxy at 1:23 PM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
Reiterating what @plonkee said (and is spot on) your mom has to understand and want a different outcome in order to change. It is difficult to be a bystander in these situations. Al-Anon has some great support materials for family members of people who struggle with alcohol.
One can function adequately (pay bills, maintain the house, etc.) and have a problem drinking...until you can't...this is the outcome of addiction. Alcohol works great to relieve your stress...until it doesn't work anymore...but you want more...only to discover it doesn't work anymore...so you try it again...repeated and repeated. It is a very challenging addiction in that there is such wide social acceptance of drinking. The person who really needs assistance is getting the message, daily, that alcohol is just fine. I struggled to accept that there are some people who just can't drink.
A great way to start is by her talking to a primary care physician, honestly, about her level of drinking and get an honest bit of counsel. What does it mean to drink a bottle of wine a day? What are the longer term impacts? I like that it is a neutral, third party who is solely concerned with your health an well being. No emotional baggage.
Be kind to yourself as you navigate these seas. Do the best you can but remember that only she controls the outcome. I wish you well.
posted by zerobyproxy at 1:23 PM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
One can function adequately (pay bills, maintain the house, etc.) and have a problem drinking...until you can't...this is the outcome of addiction
Absolutely untrue and not a helpful stereotype.
OP, what you describe sounds to me like textbook functional alcoholism. I would suggest that you find an Al-Anon meeting. You don't have to take part, but maybe go and visit and see if any of it feels useful to you.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:40 PM on February 3, 2022 [24 favorites]
Absolutely untrue and not a helpful stereotype.
OP, what you describe sounds to me like textbook functional alcoholism. I would suggest that you find an Al-Anon meeting. You don't have to take part, but maybe go and visit and see if any of it feels useful to you.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:40 PM on February 3, 2022 [24 favorites]
So I think what's happening is that, as an adult, you are coming to terms with the fact that your mom has an addiction to alcohol. You were so habituated to her daily drinking as a child that you maybe didn't realize at the time that three glasses of wine a day is still a lot. It sounds like there might be other folks in your extended family who are problem drinkers. It may be that having a problematic relationship with alcohol is normalized in your family. That doesn't mean it's not a problem. (Think of it this way: beating your kids may be "normal" in some families, but that doesn't make it okay!)
You are also coming to terms with the fact that your dad is an enabler and/or possibly also has an addiction to alcohol.
Having an addiction doesn't make someone a bad person or unworthy of your love; it doesn't mean she's a bad mom or you have a bad relationship. It means she has an addiction to a substance. (I'm saying all this as a layperson.)
A few years ago I dated an alcoholic. It took me a while to realize he was an alcoholic for a few reasons: he hid a lot of his drinking (I think) and I had never really been around an addict before. What helped me was talking to a handful of men who I think of as big drinkers about how much and how frequently this guy was drinking nd they were like, "Oh yeah, that's a lot." I also talked to my therapist about it. I tried talking to him about it. He denied it was a problem and deflected ("I like to party more than you do") but kept snarking at me all evening because he was irritated I had called attention to the issue. I ended the relationship the next day because it was a relatively new relationship and I didn't want to end up in a long term intimate relationship with an alcoholic. (I have since met someone else who works with him, and learned that his alcoholism is a known problem at his workplace, and his drinking was even worse than I really realized at the time.)
However, you can't just break up with your mom (I'm not suggesting you do!) like I did with a short term dating partner. I'm sure this is very confusing. I'm hearing you really doubt what you are seeing -- again, because alcohol overuse was so normalized in your family.
So, let me say this: your mom is drinking a lot. Just because they are functioning okay in the world doesn't mean that alcohol isn't a problem for her. You're not being unreasonable or prudish to question this. Before you talk to her, I wonder if it might be helpful to learn more about what it means to have a family member who is an alcoholic. Al-Anon is a group for family members and loved ones of alcoholics, and you might find that they have some good resources for you. It might be helpful for you to attend a meeting and hear experiences with other adults in a similar situation as you. There are also resources that might be useful from Adult Children of Alcoholics. I think it might be incredibly validating for you to hear from others how alcohol is impacting their family members.
It's really hard when our adult eyes see our caregivers differently than we did as kids. It can be incredibly confusing and overwhelming, but I think you need to trust your sense that this isn't right. I am encouraging you to educate yourself as much as possible (this question is a great first step!) before you take the step of talking to her or your dad, but I think you're starting down an important path.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:51 PM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
You are also coming to terms with the fact that your dad is an enabler and/or possibly also has an addiction to alcohol.
Having an addiction doesn't make someone a bad person or unworthy of your love; it doesn't mean she's a bad mom or you have a bad relationship. It means she has an addiction to a substance. (I'm saying all this as a layperson.)
A few years ago I dated an alcoholic. It took me a while to realize he was an alcoholic for a few reasons: he hid a lot of his drinking (I think) and I had never really been around an addict before. What helped me was talking to a handful of men who I think of as big drinkers about how much and how frequently this guy was drinking nd they were like, "Oh yeah, that's a lot." I also talked to my therapist about it. I tried talking to him about it. He denied it was a problem and deflected ("I like to party more than you do") but kept snarking at me all evening because he was irritated I had called attention to the issue. I ended the relationship the next day because it was a relatively new relationship and I didn't want to end up in a long term intimate relationship with an alcoholic. (I have since met someone else who works with him, and learned that his alcoholism is a known problem at his workplace, and his drinking was even worse than I really realized at the time.)
However, you can't just break up with your mom (I'm not suggesting you do!) like I did with a short term dating partner. I'm sure this is very confusing. I'm hearing you really doubt what you are seeing -- again, because alcohol overuse was so normalized in your family.
So, let me say this: your mom is drinking a lot. Just because they are functioning okay in the world doesn't mean that alcohol isn't a problem for her. You're not being unreasonable or prudish to question this. Before you talk to her, I wonder if it might be helpful to learn more about what it means to have a family member who is an alcoholic. Al-Anon is a group for family members and loved ones of alcoholics, and you might find that they have some good resources for you. It might be helpful for you to attend a meeting and hear experiences with other adults in a similar situation as you. There are also resources that might be useful from Adult Children of Alcoholics. I think it might be incredibly validating for you to hear from others how alcohol is impacting their family members.
It's really hard when our adult eyes see our caregivers differently than we did as kids. It can be incredibly confusing and overwhelming, but I think you need to trust your sense that this isn't right. I am encouraging you to educate yourself as much as possible (this question is a great first step!) before you take the step of talking to her or your dad, but I think you're starting down an important path.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:51 PM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
When did this start? During the pandemic? Not that there is a huge difference between three glasses and a bottle of wine, but if she increased her consumption starting in 2020, a way to bring this up might be by discussing the wider phenomenon of people using various crutches to cope with our current reality. That might help show her you're approaching this sympathetically.
I also wonder if your mom is really just drinking one bottle per day. Unlike the other answers, while I certainly am not going to advocate for a bottle of day, that's five glasses over 5-6 hrs, which for a regular drinker of average weight, shouldn't be leading to a droopy head, sloppy eating, and forgetting something within an hour. My parents probably have 4-5 drinks a night, and they don't have those symptoms. So personally, I'd be more worried your mom is either drinking much more than you think or has developed some neurological condition (though if she really seems perfectly fine before 1pm, my guess is she's drinking more). Sorry you're dealing with this.
posted by coffeecat at 2:01 PM on February 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
I also wonder if your mom is really just drinking one bottle per day. Unlike the other answers, while I certainly am not going to advocate for a bottle of day, that's five glasses over 5-6 hrs, which for a regular drinker of average weight, shouldn't be leading to a droopy head, sloppy eating, and forgetting something within an hour. My parents probably have 4-5 drinks a night, and they don't have those symptoms. So personally, I'd be more worried your mom is either drinking much more than you think or has developed some neurological condition (though if she really seems perfectly fine before 1pm, my guess is she's drinking more). Sorry you're dealing with this.
posted by coffeecat at 2:01 PM on February 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
Oof, yeah, welcome to the club of “realized in adulthood that our parents are possibly functional alcoholics and maybe have been for a very, very long time.”
It’s weird to look backwards and have some things look very different through that lens. I don’t think you are unreasonable to be concerned based on your description. I think you should continue to heartily encourage your dad when he suggests cutting back, and to encourage your mom to get in for a checkup with a medical professional. If you need to use the burping to do thst and not specifically make it about drinking, so be it. A checkup will include questions about her drinking and catch some potential problems, and is a step in the right direction.
Al-Anon was not my cup of tea in the long term but it was helpful to go to a couple of meetings and do some reading.
posted by Stacey at 2:09 PM on February 3, 2022 [7 favorites]
It’s weird to look backwards and have some things look very different through that lens. I don’t think you are unreasonable to be concerned based on your description. I think you should continue to heartily encourage your dad when he suggests cutting back, and to encourage your mom to get in for a checkup with a medical professional. If you need to use the burping to do thst and not specifically make it about drinking, so be it. A checkup will include questions about her drinking and catch some potential problems, and is a step in the right direction.
Al-Anon was not my cup of tea in the long term but it was helpful to go to a couple of meetings and do some reading.
posted by Stacey at 2:09 PM on February 3, 2022 [7 favorites]
Yes, this is a considerable amount of drinking over many years, but it also falls into an amount that's accepted by a significant number of people. Globally, there are cultures where this is pretty normalized and socially acceptable and, increasingly, in N. America it's falling under the "wine mom" category of acceptable (to some) drinking. It's not the ruin your life with chaotic alcoholism version of addiction, but it's still addiction.
The hard part about this is that she has not invited you to help her with this and hasn't opened a conversation about it with you. That doesn't mean that you can't bring it up, but this is really where your own boundaries are all you can manage. This isn't yours to fix. You can tell her that you prefer hanging out with her before she starts drinking because you perceive a difference and you can make sure that the bulk of your visiting is planned for before 1pm. You can also mention that you are concerned about her health, but if she's getting regular check-ups and screenings and things are fine, she may elect to not do anything about it considering she's in her mid-70's. Speaking with your own therapist about this and/or seeing out Al-Anon could be helpful for you.
Finally, if you're looking for a place to start, you could just focus on the physical symptoms you're seeing - the things that could be alcohol, but could also be something else: the droopy head, phlegmy throat, burping, sloppy eating, and memory issues aren't necessarily alcohol, especially if she's been drinking the same amount for many years. She may not even be getting drunk anymore as her tolerance is high. For me, I'd be most concerned about getting the symptoms you're observing checked out thoroughly to make sure nothing is being missed or being misattributed to alcohol.
posted by quince at 2:14 PM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
The hard part about this is that she has not invited you to help her with this and hasn't opened a conversation about it with you. That doesn't mean that you can't bring it up, but this is really where your own boundaries are all you can manage. This isn't yours to fix. You can tell her that you prefer hanging out with her before she starts drinking because you perceive a difference and you can make sure that the bulk of your visiting is planned for before 1pm. You can also mention that you are concerned about her health, but if she's getting regular check-ups and screenings and things are fine, she may elect to not do anything about it considering she's in her mid-70's. Speaking with your own therapist about this and/or seeing out Al-Anon could be helpful for you.
Finally, if you're looking for a place to start, you could just focus on the physical symptoms you're seeing - the things that could be alcohol, but could also be something else: the droopy head, phlegmy throat, burping, sloppy eating, and memory issues aren't necessarily alcohol, especially if she's been drinking the same amount for many years. She may not even be getting drunk anymore as her tolerance is high. For me, I'd be most concerned about getting the symptoms you're observing checked out thoroughly to make sure nothing is being missed or being misattributed to alcohol.
posted by quince at 2:14 PM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
You can be concerned about someone's lifestyle. You can express your concern, so long as you are willing to risk the consequences of doing so. You can enforce consequences and boundaries of your own, understanding that this is for your own wellbeing. You can't make them do anything.
There are health implications, generally, for that amount of alcohol consumption, but there appears to be a good bit of genetic lottery even to that - some people just can intake a lot of alcohol with little to no impact to bloodwork numbers (as far as those are indicators of health). Some people can barely have a quarterly light beer with friends without throwing alarming numbers. Some people can't drink without it being a behavioral issue, some people can. It does sound like your mom is struggling with some kind of reflux issue, which is actually potentially dangerous and will be exacerbated by alcohol, so if you want to talk to her from that angle you could.
I personally think a lot of modern alcoholism rhetoric is wrong, just wildly scientifically untrue. I think a lot of people over-use alcohol where a better drug would help more, because it's more available, much like nicotine will treat pretty severe anxiety surprisingly well and is more accessible for a lot of people than better treatments, but they do work to some extent and for some people without much in the way of consequences. Getting anyone to do any useful science on this is hard, but there is definitely a school of behavioral thought that believes the kind of drinking that creeps earlier and earlier (if it's not drinking to fix a hangover/treat physical dependence, but instead looking forward urgently to that 1:00 limit you've set like you describe with your mom) is strongly indicative of anxiety, and there's definitely treatment for that which isn't as hard (as far as we know) on the liver or endocrine system.
As a fat person who has been the object of various people's "concern", though: you might do a more thorough assessment of what damage you believe is being done that affects you, and whether it really does. If it's uncomfortable for you to be around, because these are very close family members there's grounds to say something and give them an opportunity to accommodate you, but you may not get what you want and you may find the reaction distressing.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:14 PM on February 3, 2022 [23 favorites]
There are health implications, generally, for that amount of alcohol consumption, but there appears to be a good bit of genetic lottery even to that - some people just can intake a lot of alcohol with little to no impact to bloodwork numbers (as far as those are indicators of health). Some people can barely have a quarterly light beer with friends without throwing alarming numbers. Some people can't drink without it being a behavioral issue, some people can. It does sound like your mom is struggling with some kind of reflux issue, which is actually potentially dangerous and will be exacerbated by alcohol, so if you want to talk to her from that angle you could.
I personally think a lot of modern alcoholism rhetoric is wrong, just wildly scientifically untrue. I think a lot of people over-use alcohol where a better drug would help more, because it's more available, much like nicotine will treat pretty severe anxiety surprisingly well and is more accessible for a lot of people than better treatments, but they do work to some extent and for some people without much in the way of consequences. Getting anyone to do any useful science on this is hard, but there is definitely a school of behavioral thought that believes the kind of drinking that creeps earlier and earlier (if it's not drinking to fix a hangover/treat physical dependence, but instead looking forward urgently to that 1:00 limit you've set like you describe with your mom) is strongly indicative of anxiety, and there's definitely treatment for that which isn't as hard (as far as we know) on the liver or endocrine system.
As a fat person who has been the object of various people's "concern", though: you might do a more thorough assessment of what damage you believe is being done that affects you, and whether it really does. If it's uncomfortable for you to be around, because these are very close family members there's grounds to say something and give them an opportunity to accommodate you, but you may not get what you want and you may find the reaction distressing.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:14 PM on February 3, 2022 [23 favorites]
I would approach this from the perspective of harm reduction. Does she ever drive when she drinks? That would be the absolute first thing I would focus on. If you have any hint that she gets into a car when she’s drinking that might be an entry point to discussing your general concerns with her level of drinking.
My experience is that it is extremely hard to get older people to acknowledge and do anything to address their addictions. Like, it’s very hard at any age, but feels near impossible for someone in their 70’s or older. Part of that is that they know that they are nearing the end of their lives and they feel like who cares if I die of this addiction if I’m going to die of something else anyway. My dad kind of did this in the years before he died (starting smoking, wouldn’t take basic steps to attend to his health) and in retrospect I think he kind of wanted to cut his life short.
With that in mind, you may want to talk to her about depression if you at all feel that might be playing into her drinking. That might be a somewhat more neutral way to broach the subject. If she can have a conversation about depression with a doctor the drinking will likely come up as well.
posted by scantee at 2:36 PM on February 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
My experience is that it is extremely hard to get older people to acknowledge and do anything to address their addictions. Like, it’s very hard at any age, but feels near impossible for someone in their 70’s or older. Part of that is that they know that they are nearing the end of their lives and they feel like who cares if I die of this addiction if I’m going to die of something else anyway. My dad kind of did this in the years before he died (starting smoking, wouldn’t take basic steps to attend to his health) and in retrospect I think he kind of wanted to cut his life short.
With that in mind, you may want to talk to her about depression if you at all feel that might be playing into her drinking. That might be a somewhat more neutral way to broach the subject. If she can have a conversation about depression with a doctor the drinking will likely come up as well.
posted by scantee at 2:36 PM on February 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
If I had a loved one who was drinking a bottle of wine per day, I would be concerned. That's a lot of alcohol. Just because it's wine, or she's not starting in the morning, or she's not falling down drunk, or it's not impacting her ability to pay bills, etc. doesn't mean you're overreacting with your concern. She's drinking a lot every day and unable to be fully present and alert once she gets going. That's concerning, even if it's common behavior for heavy drinkers.
If I were you, I'd get some support first before approaching her--Al-Anon, therapy, a friend who has relevant experience/expertise--because your guess that she'd deny having a problem is probably a reasonable one. It may be that you will choose to set boundaries about your interactions with her (e.g., you'll talk and spend time with her in the mornings, but you don't want to be around her when she's drinking). You don't have to get her to agree with your concerns in order to have boundaries that allow you to enjoy spending time with her.
posted by theotherdurassister at 2:37 PM on February 3, 2022
If I were you, I'd get some support first before approaching her--Al-Anon, therapy, a friend who has relevant experience/expertise--because your guess that she'd deny having a problem is probably a reasonable one. It may be that you will choose to set boundaries about your interactions with her (e.g., you'll talk and spend time with her in the mornings, but you don't want to be around her when she's drinking). You don't have to get her to agree with your concerns in order to have boundaries that allow you to enjoy spending time with her.
posted by theotherdurassister at 2:37 PM on February 3, 2022
I’ve asked her if she’s thought about getting them checked out by the doctor but she says she’s afraid to go into the doctors because of COVID.
In terms of practical things you can do, you could help arrange a phone or video appointment with her doctor or another doctor who can see her. Lots of doctors are adopting telehealth as a thing even if the area isn't particularly impacted by COVID just because it's easier.
It sounds like both your mom and your dad might be willing to discuss their drinking from the POV of looking after their health, so supporting them in general in starting to think about being healthier might work. They're getting older and this stuff is going to start having more and more of an impact -- perhaps a starting point could be asking them both to see their doctors, advocate for them to discuss their drinking and see what a medical professional says.
posted by fight or flight at 2:40 PM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
In terms of practical things you can do, you could help arrange a phone or video appointment with her doctor or another doctor who can see her. Lots of doctors are adopting telehealth as a thing even if the area isn't particularly impacted by COVID just because it's easier.
It sounds like both your mom and your dad might be willing to discuss their drinking from the POV of looking after their health, so supporting them in general in starting to think about being healthier might work. They're getting older and this stuff is going to start having more and more of an impact -- perhaps a starting point could be asking them both to see their doctors, advocate for them to discuss their drinking and see what a medical professional says.
posted by fight or flight at 2:40 PM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
I agree that this is a problem level of drinking. Is your Mom getting adequate nutrition? or getting her calories primarily from alcohol? Does she drink & drive or do other tasks while not capable? This much alcohol is very bad for her liver, and alcohol is a carcinogen. Old people are susceptible to falling, and alcohol increases the danger a fair bit.
It sounds like drinking is what she does, possibly to the exclusion of exercise, reading, whatever. At one point during the Pandemic, I realized that I was drinking (much less than this, more than typical for me) out of boredom, and that may be an element. Also, certainly in the US, old people are not valued, and it's hella depressing.
My Mom was an alcoholic and had bipolar and it made things extremely difficult when she had COPD (Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease) because alcohol depresses the nervous system and at that stage, affected her breathing. Also, she frequently had wild manic or depressed episodes exacerbated by alcohol. It's a serious addiction and at your Mom's intake, would need medical care to detox.
You can tell her that her drinking is problematic. She probably knows, but people get used to things and avoidance/ denial is an effective strategy. You can offer to work with her on ways to address it, if you are willing to put in time and effort. You can explain that when she drinks, she isn't very present and that you love her and want to spend meaningful time with her. It is up to her to decide if she wants to drink less or not at all. She would likely be helped by therapy, by having some meaningful activity. It's difficult but possible to be both kind and honest; you love her.
Get in touch with al-anon or similar groups, think about how to proceed. You don't have to be angry and confrontational to address your concern, though she may have a very adverse response.
posted by theora55 at 2:52 PM on February 3, 2022
It sounds like drinking is what she does, possibly to the exclusion of exercise, reading, whatever. At one point during the Pandemic, I realized that I was drinking (much less than this, more than typical for me) out of boredom, and that may be an element. Also, certainly in the US, old people are not valued, and it's hella depressing.
My Mom was an alcoholic and had bipolar and it made things extremely difficult when she had COPD (Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease) because alcohol depresses the nervous system and at that stage, affected her breathing. Also, she frequently had wild manic or depressed episodes exacerbated by alcohol. It's a serious addiction and at your Mom's intake, would need medical care to detox.
You can tell her that her drinking is problematic. She probably knows, but people get used to things and avoidance/ denial is an effective strategy. You can offer to work with her on ways to address it, if you are willing to put in time and effort. You can explain that when she drinks, she isn't very present and that you love her and want to spend meaningful time with her. It is up to her to decide if she wants to drink less or not at all. She would likely be helped by therapy, by having some meaningful activity. It's difficult but possible to be both kind and honest; you love her.
Get in touch with al-anon or similar groups, think about how to proceed. You don't have to be angry and confrontational to address your concern, though she may have a very adverse response.
posted by theora55 at 2:52 PM on February 3, 2022
If she can get herself to the doctor to get the constant burping and throat clearing checked out (agree that it sounds like GERD), the doctor will almost undoubtedly inquire about her alcohol consumption, and maybe that could be a path to navigating this. That aspect of the doctor visit may also be playing a part in why she doesn't want to go to the doctor.
posted by wondermouse at 2:57 PM on February 3, 2022
posted by wondermouse at 2:57 PM on February 3, 2022
The CDC defines "heavy drinking" for women as 8 or more drinks a week. Your mom is having 35 drinks a week.
posted by Gerald Bostock at 3:40 PM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Gerald Bostock at 3:40 PM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
Great thoughts above, and I’ll also add that this level of drinking over this many years means your mother almost certainly has a physical dependence on alcohol. She may be drinking earlier in the day to stave off withdrawal symptoms. Alcohol withdrawal can be very dangerous, and older adults are also at risk for complicated alcohol withdrawal. Please work closely with a physician (pref addiction medicine) if your mom does decide she wants to reduce or stop. That should absolutely not be done without medical supervision.
posted by namemeansgazelle at 4:52 PM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by namemeansgazelle at 4:52 PM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
As you navigate how to discuss these complex issues with your parents, I want to suggest another way to come at the conversation. I know (and understand from experience), how much you want to fix/help/address your parents' behavior, but that is ultimately up to them. And telling someone that their behavior is wrong/problematic can simply lead to them putting up defenses or shutting down.
I think you should approach an initial conversation from the perspective of how this situation is making you feel and what steps you are going to take to not be in situations that are harmful emotionally or mentally to you. That might involve cutting back the amount of time you spend with them, when you're able to talk to them on the phone, the type of family gatherings you're willing to attend. Start by setting some modest and gentle boundaries that are focused on your well-being. Maybe you only enforce these boundaries for a few months and then revisit to see if they've been doing any thinking during that time.
If they challenge your reasons for setting these boundaries, then along with reminding them that this is about you and what you need to do for yourself, they could think about some of things that have been mentioned above - speak to the family doctor, speak to a social worker, speak to a neutral third party - to get someone else's perspective.
I think one of the hardest things about living with or being close to an alcoholic is the way one is roped into propping up the lie that there is no problem. It's exhausting to lie about obvious problems and you shouldn't have to do it.
posted by brookeb at 4:59 PM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
I think you should approach an initial conversation from the perspective of how this situation is making you feel and what steps you are going to take to not be in situations that are harmful emotionally or mentally to you. That might involve cutting back the amount of time you spend with them, when you're able to talk to them on the phone, the type of family gatherings you're willing to attend. Start by setting some modest and gentle boundaries that are focused on your well-being. Maybe you only enforce these boundaries for a few months and then revisit to see if they've been doing any thinking during that time.
If they challenge your reasons for setting these boundaries, then along with reminding them that this is about you and what you need to do for yourself, they could think about some of things that have been mentioned above - speak to the family doctor, speak to a social worker, speak to a neutral third party - to get someone else's perspective.
I think one of the hardest things about living with or being close to an alcoholic is the way one is roped into propping up the lie that there is no problem. It's exhausting to lie about obvious problems and you shouldn't have to do it.
posted by brookeb at 4:59 PM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Also since she is mid-70s part of a general check-up could be a neurological assessment, maybe these changes in your mom aren't due to alcohol, but are a result of something else. Or maybe the alcohol is exacerbating other neurological issues (it can).
posted by brookeb at 5:04 PM on February 3, 2022
posted by brookeb at 5:04 PM on February 3, 2022
My stepdad died of cirrhosis at 70, after a previous major incident (he fell off his porch and broke some bones) and a subsequent effort to stop drinking. His last several years were difficult for him and everyone around him, and I think he started drinking again because he was bored with his life without it. There was nothing my siblings or I could do about it, nothing his girlfriends could do about it. He minimized the drinking and the information he had from his doctors when he talked about it at all, until nothing more could be done.
I wish you well in the coming years. Aging is hard on our bodies and major substance use accelerates all those processes. I can feel the love and concern radiating from your question, and I hope your mom hears what you tell her, whatever you decide to say and do.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 5:55 PM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
I wish you well in the coming years. Aging is hard on our bodies and major substance use accelerates all those processes. I can feel the love and concern radiating from your question, and I hope your mom hears what you tell her, whatever you decide to say and do.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 5:55 PM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm in the camp that you can't do much to turn her life around or introduce a dramatic change, but I think you could do some small stuff that might help improve at least your experience of being with her.
Have you invited her to go do stuff not at the house? Something where there doesn't happen to be any (or much) alcohol, like a walk or a picnic or a visit to your house or a game of mini golf? If she's not at home at 1, can she handle an afternoon without drinking?
You can also try and tell her that you don't like how tired and distracted she gets when she drinks, and ask if she'd be willing to spend an afternoon with you without alcohol sometime. That's a bit more fraught because there is a criticism in it, but might work too especially if you can honestly approach it as something kind she can do for you rather than something bad about her that you're "fixing". A follow-up of this would be to leave when the wine comes out, or an hour after the wine comes out, because it's her right to get (metaphorically) stoned in her own house but it's not your obligation to hang out around a stoned person.
posted by Lady Li at 6:43 PM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Have you invited her to go do stuff not at the house? Something where there doesn't happen to be any (or much) alcohol, like a walk or a picnic or a visit to your house or a game of mini golf? If she's not at home at 1, can she handle an afternoon without drinking?
You can also try and tell her that you don't like how tired and distracted she gets when she drinks, and ask if she'd be willing to spend an afternoon with you without alcohol sometime. That's a bit more fraught because there is a criticism in it, but might work too especially if you can honestly approach it as something kind she can do for you rather than something bad about her that you're "fixing". A follow-up of this would be to leave when the wine comes out, or an hour after the wine comes out, because it's her right to get (metaphorically) stoned in her own house but it's not your obligation to hang out around a stoned person.
posted by Lady Li at 6:43 PM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
To give you another objective measure: The recommendation in the UK is that women drink no more than 14 units of alcohol a week, where a unit is 10ml of alcohol. A bottle of wine (assuming 12% - 14.5%) is typically 9-11 units, so your mother is drinking close to five times that limit. I'm sorry - I would like to be able to say that that's fine really, but in your shoes I would worry too.
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 1:32 AM on February 4, 2022
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 1:32 AM on February 4, 2022
It's sort of been mentioned but age does play a role in how bodies process alcohol, and any liver damage could also impact that process. This is definately significant drinking, and there are likely some components of physical dependance.
Some things to ask yourself in terms of physical dependance have you seen your mom start to sweat uncontrollably, have trembling hands, have an increase in anxiety (this could present itself as pacing, worry, checking the time a bunch if she's purposely waits till 1pm to drink) or agitation/irratability. There's are more symptoms of withdrawal that that but these would be more common mild symptoms you can see in a person. She may be drinking in private as well.
In terms of your family, first you really must come to terms that you can't control your mother's behaviour and that addiction is hard to treat. Then you can decide how you would like to approach (or not!) your family. Personally I think asking her questions about what she thinks about her drinking (is she okay, does she minimize, does she know it's not healthy but is unsure on what to do? ) and listen. Asking questions about what would happen if she falls while she is drinking (this is a very very real concern with older drinkers), about her health overall, day to day things. Then you can ask for specific actions which may or may not happen, I'd like to see you drink less, I'd like to see you see a doctor and talk to them about this, I'd like you to get some bloodwork done, I'd like to spend time with you sober, I'd like you to try not drinking whatever it might be. It is up to you. Some people harm reduction works well, and can successfully reduce intake slowly in their own . But at her age (any age really, but especially at her age) I would definately encourage speaking to a doctor because there are risks with withdrawal that can be very very very dangerous.
Long term alcohol use is sometimes a tool for controlling anxiety. It can and does increase depression symptoms. Be warned stopping can cause a sharp increase in anxiety, and some people need additional help via medication and theapy to transition to being sober. It is absolutely not easy.
As a warning if she continues drinking like she does, you will also experience trouble with your mother when she needs hospitalization for anything, which at 70 if it hasn't happened yet it will at some point. Many people will leave against medical advice because they want/need to drink or attempt to resort to bringing alcohol into the hospital facility. Some suddenly go into withdrawal that have to be treated on top of whatever else brought them there. This could end up being a big big problem and seriously impact her health.
There are facilities, counselors and doctors who will work with older adults with problems like this. There are special considerations and also some people just develop these problems when they are older.
Remember to take care of you, this is a tough situation.
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:51 AM on February 4, 2022
Some things to ask yourself in terms of physical dependance have you seen your mom start to sweat uncontrollably, have trembling hands, have an increase in anxiety (this could present itself as pacing, worry, checking the time a bunch if she's purposely waits till 1pm to drink) or agitation/irratability. There's are more symptoms of withdrawal that that but these would be more common mild symptoms you can see in a person. She may be drinking in private as well.
In terms of your family, first you really must come to terms that you can't control your mother's behaviour and that addiction is hard to treat. Then you can decide how you would like to approach (or not!) your family. Personally I think asking her questions about what she thinks about her drinking (is she okay, does she minimize, does she know it's not healthy but is unsure on what to do? ) and listen. Asking questions about what would happen if she falls while she is drinking (this is a very very real concern with older drinkers), about her health overall, day to day things. Then you can ask for specific actions which may or may not happen, I'd like to see you drink less, I'd like to see you see a doctor and talk to them about this, I'd like you to get some bloodwork done, I'd like to spend time with you sober, I'd like you to try not drinking whatever it might be. It is up to you. Some people harm reduction works well, and can successfully reduce intake slowly in their own . But at her age (any age really, but especially at her age) I would definately encourage speaking to a doctor because there are risks with withdrawal that can be very very very dangerous.
Long term alcohol use is sometimes a tool for controlling anxiety. It can and does increase depression symptoms. Be warned stopping can cause a sharp increase in anxiety, and some people need additional help via medication and theapy to transition to being sober. It is absolutely not easy.
As a warning if she continues drinking like she does, you will also experience trouble with your mother when she needs hospitalization for anything, which at 70 if it hasn't happened yet it will at some point. Many people will leave against medical advice because they want/need to drink or attempt to resort to bringing alcohol into the hospital facility. Some suddenly go into withdrawal that have to be treated on top of whatever else brought them there. This could end up being a big big problem and seriously impact her health.
There are facilities, counselors and doctors who will work with older adults with problems like this. There are special considerations and also some people just develop these problems when they are older.
Remember to take care of you, this is a tough situation.
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:51 AM on February 4, 2022
Nthing the rec for Al-Anon for you. Otherwise you might wind up throwing a lot of good time and energy after bad. I write this as someone who's been sober for many years in AA.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 6:48 AM on February 4, 2022
posted by Sheydem-tants at 6:48 AM on February 4, 2022
As a person who worked in the substance use treatment field for many years (in a non-clinical capacity), I can concur with the people above who said it is unlikely your mom will engage in treatment. So you might want to let go of the idea of helping her to get into treatment.
That doesn't mean there aren't things you can do. It is difficult to watch a loved one engage in self-destructive behavior and feel so powerless. So focus on what you can do -
- Don't minimize or ignore their drinking. Rather, accept and acknowledge it. It is OK to say, "sorry, Mom, I don't really want to come over and visit after 1:00 because you will have had a glass of wine by then. Let's have brunch together instead."
- Talk to both parents to make sure they are not driving anytime after 1:00 PM. Do they know how to order an UBER? Should the number of the taxi service be posted on their refrigerator or put into their phone contacts? You could help with that.
- Are their wills in order? Help make that happen.
- Make sure they understand the importance of revealing their actual amount of drinking if they have an emergency and go to the hospital. If you can't be there, you can always call the Emergency Room or hospital and speak to the nurse's station to let them know how much alcohol they consume. This will eliminate a good bit of guesswork and painful testing on the doctor's part. Don't worry about privacy restrictions. They may not be able to talk to you, but you can certainly talk to the medical professionals and they will appreciate having the information.
When dealing with substance use, it is sometimes helpful to think about another chronic disease that someone does not manage well. Let's say your mother has diabetes and does not eat properly or take her meds as prescribed. Your role, then, is to express concern about her health, don't bring cake in the house, and offer assistance but don't try to force anything.
Thank you for being concerned.
posted by eleslie at 6:49 AM on February 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
That doesn't mean there aren't things you can do. It is difficult to watch a loved one engage in self-destructive behavior and feel so powerless. So focus on what you can do -
- Don't minimize or ignore their drinking. Rather, accept and acknowledge it. It is OK to say, "sorry, Mom, I don't really want to come over and visit after 1:00 because you will have had a glass of wine by then. Let's have brunch together instead."
- Talk to both parents to make sure they are not driving anytime after 1:00 PM. Do they know how to order an UBER? Should the number of the taxi service be posted on their refrigerator or put into their phone contacts? You could help with that.
- Are their wills in order? Help make that happen.
- Make sure they understand the importance of revealing their actual amount of drinking if they have an emergency and go to the hospital. If you can't be there, you can always call the Emergency Room or hospital and speak to the nurse's station to let them know how much alcohol they consume. This will eliminate a good bit of guesswork and painful testing on the doctor's part. Don't worry about privacy restrictions. They may not be able to talk to you, but you can certainly talk to the medical professionals and they will appreciate having the information.
When dealing with substance use, it is sometimes helpful to think about another chronic disease that someone does not manage well. Let's say your mother has diabetes and does not eat properly or take her meds as prescribed. Your role, then, is to express concern about her health, don't bring cake in the house, and offer assistance but don't try to force anything.
Thank you for being concerned.
posted by eleslie at 6:49 AM on February 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
"One can function adequately (pay bills, maintain the house, etc.) and have a problem drinking...until you can't...this is the outcome of addiction"
Absolutely untrue and not a helpful stereotype.
My apologies. I did not mean to imply that functional alcoholics transition to non-functional alcoholics. I was using terms that are used, regarding drinking, in recovery groups that I have been a part of. "It works until it doesn't". The gist is: drinking helped us cope but when it no longer did, I was unable to stop. That was my intent and I missed the mark.
Some people live their entire lives as functional alcoholics. Some people who are functioning alcoholics become non-functioning alcoholics. There are so many factors that facilitate either potential outcome. I found that understanding which category I was in was difficult to judge. Others may have a feeling but may not have felt comfortable addressing it with me so I appreciate your question very much.
There is so much good counsel in this thread and I hope that you find the resources you need.
posted by zerobyproxy at 9:12 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Absolutely untrue and not a helpful stereotype.
My apologies. I did not mean to imply that functional alcoholics transition to non-functional alcoholics. I was using terms that are used, regarding drinking, in recovery groups that I have been a part of. "It works until it doesn't". The gist is: drinking helped us cope but when it no longer did, I was unable to stop. That was my intent and I missed the mark.
Some people live their entire lives as functional alcoholics. Some people who are functioning alcoholics become non-functioning alcoholics. There are so many factors that facilitate either potential outcome. I found that understanding which category I was in was difficult to judge. Others may have a feeling but may not have felt comfortable addressing it with me so I appreciate your question very much.
There is so much good counsel in this thread and I hope that you find the resources you need.
posted by zerobyproxy at 9:12 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Can you persuade her to switch to some lower-alcohol beverage, like hard seltzer? It might be the ritual more than the actual booze that comforts her. I’d think that her GERD issues aren’t helped by the wine, but maybe if she could go for mixing the wine with flavored fizzy water or something, the stomach issues might be helped a bit.
If she’s not driving, drunk-dialing, shopping or randomly throwing out stuff in the house (drunk-cleaning is a thing), you can avoid her, tell her you’d rather not be around her when she drinks, and do what’s best for you.
posted by Ideefixe at 2:14 PM on February 4, 2022
If she’s not driving, drunk-dialing, shopping or randomly throwing out stuff in the house (drunk-cleaning is a thing), you can avoid her, tell her you’d rather not be around her when she drinks, and do what’s best for you.
posted by Ideefixe at 2:14 PM on February 4, 2022
Many people will leave against medical advice because they want/need to drink or attempt to resort to bringing alcohol into the hospital facility. Some suddenly go into withdrawal that have to be treated on top of whatever else brought them there.
Generally, if you tell your doctor the truth "I'm drinking X units / week" they will deal with this, perhaps, putting you on a benzo taper to wean you off.
Don't lie to your doctor.
And if someone you love is lying to their doctor, tell on them.
People misundestand medical privacy / ethics quite often - the Doctor can not tell you (the relative of a patient) anything, but they can receive information from anyone, and that information could be life-saving.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 4:59 PM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Generally, if you tell your doctor the truth "I'm drinking X units / week" they will deal with this, perhaps, putting you on a benzo taper to wean you off.
Don't lie to your doctor.
And if someone you love is lying to their doctor, tell on them.
People misundestand medical privacy / ethics quite often - the Doctor can not tell you (the relative of a patient) anything, but they can receive information from anyone, and that information could be life-saving.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 4:59 PM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
However it really doesn't matter that much why your mother drinks or whether its inherently problematic as I think the answer to what you can do is 'not a great deal'. There is no magic way in for bystanders to get people with substance abuse problems to either recognise they have a problem, or then do something productive about it that fixes the problem. It's not on you, it's on the person with the problem. You might benefit from going to Al-anon. There 3Cs are really helpful to try and start getting your head around. You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.
posted by plonkee at 12:47 PM on February 3, 2022 [22 favorites]