Coping and Conflict During Holidays with a Narcissistic Parent
December 20, 2021 11:33 PM Subscribe
An old story of Christmas holidays. My maternal parent is narcissistic (perhaps malignantly so, at least in terms of the aggression and internal fragility, although not as bad as Livia Soprano), bad at boundaries, and excellent at semantic arguments. From therapy I'm newly trying to calmly defend my own boundaries with as little conflict as possible. For a few days I'm visiting. It's too late in life to effect much change in them. Strategies on coping and handling conflict would be very much appreciated.
Why are you going? There's no actual law requiring it.
If there are reasons to attend (such as wanting to spend time with other family), ok, fair enough.
I find it helpful to have my own transportation, and invent errands so I can escape for a bit.
It also helps to have calm stock phrases. "A no isn't a jumping off point for negotiations, Mom." "I understand how you feel, but that doesn't change things." "I'm going to leave the room now."
posted by champers at 4:33 AM on December 21, 2021 [11 favorites]
If there are reasons to attend (such as wanting to spend time with other family), ok, fair enough.
I find it helpful to have my own transportation, and invent errands so I can escape for a bit.
It also helps to have calm stock phrases. "A no isn't a jumping off point for negotiations, Mom." "I understand how you feel, but that doesn't change things." "I'm going to leave the room now."
posted by champers at 4:33 AM on December 21, 2021 [11 favorites]
You already write that it’s too late to effect much change. We can believe this cognitively and still suspend that belief in the moment. If you haven’t truly accepted that they won’t change, you could work on that or find some strategy to remind you in the moment, so you don’t rise to the bait. Semantic arguments can’t even come up if you don’t engage, or at least can’t go on for as long. I’d come armed with some phrases for deflection, e.g., pseudo agreement (Okay! You may be right! Huh. Hmm. Alright. Yeah. Interesting. I see. Sure. Food for thought!), anything that doesn’t offer an opening. And I’m sure you’ve heard of the gray-rock strategy, be as bland and boring and unaffected as possible.
posted by meijusa at 4:56 AM on December 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by meijusa at 4:56 AM on December 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
A few strategies for you:
- long walks alone
- headphones
- naps
A few conversational strategies:
- grey rock (underreact)
- what I think of as “the recognizing your world response” — “isn’t memory a funny thing?” “Aren’t our thoughts amazingly rich?” “Wow, those are strong emotions.” “That sounds really hard for you!”
- (advanced) I sometimes out-ridiculous my mum. Like one time she was saying I “couldn’t possibly” understand the stress *her thinking about* of a friend’s daughter who was on bedrest, 4 months after I was a) on bedrest b) had my youngest admitted to NICU a few days after his birth with a life-threatening condition, c) 7 years after my baby daughter died, and I said “I can’t but you know what I can’t stop thinking about? If you’re pregnant and get bitten by a zombie, is your baby a zombie too?” That at least ended the discussion and more important, amused me. It reminded me I am an adult with choices about my location, conversation, and life. I now use zombie babies as my go-to in multiple situations.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:34 AM on December 21, 2021 [32 favorites]
- long walks alone
- headphones
- naps
A few conversational strategies:
- grey rock (underreact)
- what I think of as “the recognizing your world response” — “isn’t memory a funny thing?” “Aren’t our thoughts amazingly rich?” “Wow, those are strong emotions.” “That sounds really hard for you!”
- (advanced) I sometimes out-ridiculous my mum. Like one time she was saying I “couldn’t possibly” understand the stress *her thinking about* of a friend’s daughter who was on bedrest, 4 months after I was a) on bedrest b) had my youngest admitted to NICU a few days after his birth with a life-threatening condition, c) 7 years after my baby daughter died, and I said “I can’t but you know what I can’t stop thinking about? If you’re pregnant and get bitten by a zombie, is your baby a zombie too?” That at least ended the discussion and more important, amused me. It reminded me I am an adult with choices about my location, conversation, and life. I now use zombie babies as my go-to in multiple situations.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:34 AM on December 21, 2021 [32 favorites]
One of the best decisions I ever made in my life was to completely cut off contact with my narcissistic parent. Did I lose connections with other family members who mattered to me because of this choice? Yes. Was my life in general nevertheless drastically improved? Yes, yes, yes.
If you are waiting for permission to stop spending the holidays with a person who torments you, consider it given by me.
If you have compelling reasons to go anyway, I suggest:
1.) Bringing something to keep you very obviously occupied-- a book? Some knitting? A very unfortunate "work project" that you simply MUST finish, so terrible to be given a deadline over the holidays, can't be helped? so you have visible excuses to occasionally be found doing things by yourself quietly in a corner or even behind a closed door in a separate room
2.) Finding reasons to get involved in innocuous conversations or activities with other people, to avoid having conversations of any length with this person as much as possible
3.) Focusing your attention as often as possible on playing with any children or pets who are present instead of interacting with adult people
4.) Bringing activities along for the entire group to do-- a new board or card game to play or a movie to watch for example-- that will give the appearance of your participating in social activities while limiting opportunities for conversation
5.) Taking or creating opportunities to leave the house by yourself (volunteer to take a dog for a walk, head to the store for a MUST HAVE holiday dinner ingredient you "forgot" you wanted, etc.)
6.) Developing a "headache" and having a nice lie down in the dark for a couple of hours
Good luck and remember you are worth protecting.
posted by BlueJae at 5:40 AM on December 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
If you are waiting for permission to stop spending the holidays with a person who torments you, consider it given by me.
If you have compelling reasons to go anyway, I suggest:
1.) Bringing something to keep you very obviously occupied-- a book? Some knitting? A very unfortunate "work project" that you simply MUST finish, so terrible to be given a deadline over the holidays, can't be helped? so you have visible excuses to occasionally be found doing things by yourself quietly in a corner or even behind a closed door in a separate room
2.) Finding reasons to get involved in innocuous conversations or activities with other people, to avoid having conversations of any length with this person as much as possible
3.) Focusing your attention as often as possible on playing with any children or pets who are present instead of interacting with adult people
4.) Bringing activities along for the entire group to do-- a new board or card game to play or a movie to watch for example-- that will give the appearance of your participating in social activities while limiting opportunities for conversation
5.) Taking or creating opportunities to leave the house by yourself (volunteer to take a dog for a walk, head to the store for a MUST HAVE holiday dinner ingredient you "forgot" you wanted, etc.)
6.) Developing a "headache" and having a nice lie down in the dark for a couple of hours
Good luck and remember you are worth protecting.
posted by BlueJae at 5:40 AM on December 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
Don't stay in their house. Stay in a nearby hotel/motel so you have somewhere to retreat to when boundaries are crossed and for a mental break. Arrange to meet them on neutral locations like restaurants, at malls or a movie or where there is outside stimulus whatever so you are doing something you can talk about that instead of more painful topics or ones that might set them off.
Grey Rock. Give them as little info about you and your life as you can Vague neutral non emotive answers. Grey rock works best for short term interactions and if this person is in your life more than the occasional holiday you may want to see a therapist for better coping tools.
BlueJae gives great advice if you're having to stay with them, but seriously if you can in anyway afford to stay nearby not in their house so much the better IMO.
Remember No is a complete sentence and that you do not have to go. Stay home, blame covid if you have to, and start some new happier holiday traditions.
posted by wwax at 7:20 AM on December 21, 2021 [7 favorites]
Grey Rock. Give them as little info about you and your life as you can Vague neutral non emotive answers. Grey rock works best for short term interactions and if this person is in your life more than the occasional holiday you may want to see a therapist for better coping tools.
BlueJae gives great advice if you're having to stay with them, but seriously if you can in anyway afford to stay nearby not in their house so much the better IMO.
Remember No is a complete sentence and that you do not have to go. Stay home, blame covid if you have to, and start some new happier holiday traditions.
posted by wwax at 7:20 AM on December 21, 2021 [7 favorites]
The only thing that has ever worked for me with my mother is this: when she starts in on one of her rants, I get up and leave the room. If I'm the only other adult in the room with her, I say I'm going to the bathroom or to take a shower (I take so many showers at her house). If there are others in the room, I just get up and walk into another room or out to my car. It's good for me to get away and that's why I initially started doing it (my boundary was simply that I would not stay in the room (or on the phone) with her when she did that). But I found that, in general, it really decreased the amount of time she does that around me. Just noping out and not engaging with her at all was the best way to handle it.
posted by dawkins_7 at 7:48 AM on December 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by dawkins_7 at 7:48 AM on December 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
More-detailed Grey Rock: Narcissists often have a response in mind that they're trawling for (usually, some variation of "wow, you're so awesome!", as I'm sure you know). Two things: recognize what they're looking for, and don't give it to them. Don't provide the other side of the argument. Don't fill in the obviously missing flattery. Whatever it is - provide nothing but absorbent charcoal. This is just my own verbalization of grey rock, but hope it helps.
It also helps me to plan and look forward to a self-reward when it's over.
posted by Dashy at 8:06 AM on December 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
It also helps me to plan and look forward to a self-reward when it's over.
posted by Dashy at 8:06 AM on December 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
Coming back to agree with what Dashy said about planning. Think through the ways that your parent gets under your skin and have a plan for it. You won't think of everything this time but after you leave, you can run through what happened during this visit and put a plan in place for future visits. After a while, you'll have most of your bases covered and can feel more confident that visiting won't be so awful for you.
posted by dawkins_7 at 8:39 AM on December 21, 2021
posted by dawkins_7 at 8:39 AM on December 21, 2021
You've got to establish boundaries and force her to recognize them through your reactions. Have you checked out the book Stop Walking on Eggshells, by Randi Kreger? Although it's focuses on Borderline Personality Disorder, there are a lot of common threads between BPD and Narcissistic Personality Disorder. In addition, there are online support groups via Yahoo! Groups. The others participating in that forum suffer from a spouse, sibling, parent or child with BPD or NPD.
posted by dlwr300 at 9:12 AM on December 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by dlwr300 at 9:12 AM on December 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
Good on you for therapy and for establishing boundaries. The next level in dealing with narcissistic parents is understanding that defending your boundaries is constant and exhausting. That's why you're seeing so many suggestions to skip the visit altogether.
Here is my strategy in a nutshell: My mother is a rattlesnake.
Rattlesnakes have every right to exist. They serve a purpose in our ecology. They probably live very fulfilled lives. Or at least lives filled with activities that occupy their time, like eating, or biting things. It's none of my concern. Rattlesnakes live all the way over ----> there. I give rattlesnakes a wide fucking berth, because if one bites me, I could easily die. I could wear thick boots that they can't bite through, and I could always keep a pair of those boots in my car or in a backpack, or I could take some kind of anti-venom serum, or I could learn all about rattlesnakes in hopes of identifying and predicting all their body language ahead of a bite. But I'd rather just.... not go to where they live. Because if I get too close to a rattlesnake, it will definitely try to bite me. It will definitely be very painful and I might even die. LOOK OUT FOR RATTLESNAKES.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 10:41 AM on December 21, 2021 [14 favorites]
Here is my strategy in a nutshell: My mother is a rattlesnake.
Rattlesnakes have every right to exist. They serve a purpose in our ecology. They probably live very fulfilled lives. Or at least lives filled with activities that occupy their time, like eating, or biting things. It's none of my concern. Rattlesnakes live all the way over ----> there. I give rattlesnakes a wide fucking berth, because if one bites me, I could easily die. I could wear thick boots that they can't bite through, and I could always keep a pair of those boots in my car or in a backpack, or I could take some kind of anti-venom serum, or I could learn all about rattlesnakes in hopes of identifying and predicting all their body language ahead of a bite. But I'd rather just.... not go to where they live. Because if I get too close to a rattlesnake, it will definitely try to bite me. It will definitely be very painful and I might even die. LOOK OUT FOR RATTLESNAKES.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 10:41 AM on December 21, 2021 [14 favorites]
Sometimes, when preparing to meet wit with my narcissistic mom (and enabling dad) I’ll make a list ahead of time of inappropriate, hurtful, hot button things I expect them to say or do and my response to it. This makes me feel prepared. And the majority of my strategy is avoiding/ shutting down conversations that are painful for me/where my parents tend to misbehave. I’ve also come up with a list of safe conversation topics. Like my cats. Cooking. Cats again.
I agree with the above posters who recommend not staying with your parents and meeting on neutral ground. With an escape plan (car).
Sometimes I pretend to be an anthropologist who is studying a bizarre new culture. As in “I can’t believe that people in this culture think it is acceptable to say/do that. Hmmm. I must add this to my expedition log book.”
posted by ticketmaster10 at 12:32 PM on December 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
I agree with the above posters who recommend not staying with your parents and meeting on neutral ground. With an escape plan (car).
Sometimes I pretend to be an anthropologist who is studying a bizarre new culture. As in “I can’t believe that people in this culture think it is acceptable to say/do that. Hmmm. I must add this to my expedition log book.”
posted by ticketmaster10 at 12:32 PM on December 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
It's great that you're doing therapy and learning how to set boundaries, but diving straight in to expecting yourself to implement that during a holiday visit on their territory is a lot. Like "I've been learning to swim lately so I'll go out in the ocean where my Olympian cousin practices!" levels of a lot. Please set your expectations of yourself accordingly. It would not be failing if you can't bring yourself to do the thing in the face of their emotional abusiveness. It would not be failing if you try and it doesn't work. It would not be failing if another relative takes you aside and says you should be "nicer" to your parent during the holidays and that completely wrecks whatever plan you'd had. I hope! hope hope hope things go better for you than all that. But this person's experience is vast and mighty, and you've suffered for a long time under it. It's okay if all you can do is keep your head above water. It's okay if you have to bail. Take good care of yourself, even if doing so doesn't look like you might wish it did.
posted by teremala at 1:16 PM on December 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by teremala at 1:16 PM on December 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
What teremala said. Don't feel bad if it doesn't go great. Don't think in terms of success and failure, just think in terms of getting through the visit. I used to spend so much time kind of spinning about this stuff and I now think I held onto some idea that I was supposed to be able to control the situation with the power of my mind. Or I would get very very excited by some perceived progress, only to be even more disappointed later. Above all, be kind to yourself.
posted by BibiRose at 6:04 AM on December 22, 2021
posted by BibiRose at 6:04 AM on December 22, 2021
I'm very familiar with that calculation of: what's worse? The torture of going to visit for a few days, or the fallout from not visiting? I would always end up going, once a year, during the holidays, and for many years it was awful.
If you have a partner you can bring with you, I suggest making a rule that you aren't to be left alone with the parent. If not, make sure you have an "out" for when things get to be too much. An easy one is having to make a phone call to check in at work, or with a sick friend. As others mentioned, not staying with your parents, and having your own transportation can help a lot. A phrase that worked especially well for me in order to disengage was "I don't think now is the right time to [do ridiculous thing/talk about painful thing]." Remember that you are not the one generating conflict, and no matter how bad it gets, you will be at home -- your real home, the home you made for yourself -- in just a few days. Do whatever you need to in order to stay safe until then.
My narcissistic parent passed away last year, and I asked myself: what did I accomplish, working so hard to keep the peace, at such a cost to my own well being? Nothing worthwhile, I don't think. Good luck. I wish you well.
posted by a private person at 3:25 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
If you have a partner you can bring with you, I suggest making a rule that you aren't to be left alone with the parent. If not, make sure you have an "out" for when things get to be too much. An easy one is having to make a phone call to check in at work, or with a sick friend. As others mentioned, not staying with your parents, and having your own transportation can help a lot. A phrase that worked especially well for me in order to disengage was "I don't think now is the right time to [do ridiculous thing/talk about painful thing]." Remember that you are not the one generating conflict, and no matter how bad it gets, you will be at home -- your real home, the home you made for yourself -- in just a few days. Do whatever you need to in order to stay safe until then.
My narcissistic parent passed away last year, and I asked myself: what did I accomplish, working so hard to keep the peace, at such a cost to my own well being? Nothing worthwhile, I don't think. Good luck. I wish you well.
posted by a private person at 3:25 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
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I'd really recommend you wander over there in addition to here.
posted by stormyteal at 11:51 PM on December 20, 2021 [2 favorites]