Too Old to Run Away from Home?
December 15, 2021 2:59 PM Subscribe
I fantasize about teaching abroad. Tell me why this is a bad (or not so bad) idea.
If you've read any of my other posts, you know that my job is driving me up the real. Recently I've been volunteering teaching ESL and really enjoyed it, to the extent where it surprised me--suddenly I felt not angry and frustrated, but interested and engaged. It was like the scene from the Grinch where his heart grows the sizes! Part of it was just seeing people post (?) COVID, part of it was feeling valued--I work in a job where there's basically zero personal interaction post COVID and a lot of the virtual interaction only comes when something's gone wrong.
So... I've started looking into teaching abroad again, which I've looked into on and off at various times in my life. One of the happiest experiences of my life was studying abroad for a year, I earned a certificate for teaching ESL, and I've enjoyed volunteer teaching. However, I know that something that you do a few times a week isn't the same as doing something full time. I also know that this could be COVID burnout/delusion.
Most of my options for other careers involve doing things that I'd be morally uncomfortable with. However, those things will pay me respectable amounts of money and give me healthcare. I won't progress in them, because I'll hate them, but it'll keep me fed and housed, and really, isn't that the most important thing? And isn't going abroad something you should do in your 20s, not your 40s, unless you're just a loser who hasn't properly established yourself in life? And aren't I too depressed/damaged/maladapted to even consider doing something like this--I'll just end up depressed and alone and hurting the people I teach? Etc., etc... (This has been the familial response when I've done things in the past that don't involve a 40-hour a week job.)
Has anybody done a midlife crisis thing like this and had it work out? Or is this the job equivalent of fantasizing about your "dream person" and scorning the best you can get? If I am being over romantic about my prospects and I have to take this job making bomb diagrams or death rays I will, but I won't like it, and I'm tired of not liking it.
If you've read any of my other posts, you know that my job is driving me up the real. Recently I've been volunteering teaching ESL and really enjoyed it, to the extent where it surprised me--suddenly I felt not angry and frustrated, but interested and engaged. It was like the scene from the Grinch where his heart grows the sizes! Part of it was just seeing people post (?) COVID, part of it was feeling valued--I work in a job where there's basically zero personal interaction post COVID and a lot of the virtual interaction only comes when something's gone wrong.
So... I've started looking into teaching abroad again, which I've looked into on and off at various times in my life. One of the happiest experiences of my life was studying abroad for a year, I earned a certificate for teaching ESL, and I've enjoyed volunteer teaching. However, I know that something that you do a few times a week isn't the same as doing something full time. I also know that this could be COVID burnout/delusion.
Most of my options for other careers involve doing things that I'd be morally uncomfortable with. However, those things will pay me respectable amounts of money and give me healthcare. I won't progress in them, because I'll hate them, but it'll keep me fed and housed, and really, isn't that the most important thing? And isn't going abroad something you should do in your 20s, not your 40s, unless you're just a loser who hasn't properly established yourself in life? And aren't I too depressed/damaged/maladapted to even consider doing something like this--I'll just end up depressed and alone and hurting the people I teach? Etc., etc... (This has been the familial response when I've done things in the past that don't involve a 40-hour a week job.)
Has anybody done a midlife crisis thing like this and had it work out? Or is this the job equivalent of fantasizing about your "dream person" and scorning the best you can get? If I am being over romantic about my prospects and I have to take this job making bomb diagrams or death rays I will, but I won't like it, and I'm tired of not liking it.
Are your parents actively engaged in dying? Are you their primary caregiver? If this is the case, you can't really go abroad. Sorry.
If not - do it! The thing about default jobs keeping you fed and housed etc only works as an argument if these things (codewords for respectability) are things you really value. What's much more likely, from the sound of it, is that they're proxies for things other people assume you want - safety, respectability.
It sounds as though you don't particularly want those things - or, at least, you'd like to trade them off for what this opportunity can offer you. That sounds like a good trade! In particular, if you feel "behind where you should be" on metrics like having-been-promoted, savings, etc, catching up a small amount of the distance (likely not even very much, as you'll hate the jobs!) sounds like a very inefficient source of self-esteem and being-cool-to-your-peers. Throwing your life up in the air and travelling and having adventures? That sounds a much better one!
Sometimes you hear, fifth-hand,
As epitaph:
He chucked up everything
And just cleared off,
And always the voice will sound
Certain you approve
This audacious, purifying,
Elemental move.
posted by wattle at 3:42 PM on December 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
If not - do it! The thing about default jobs keeping you fed and housed etc only works as an argument if these things (codewords for respectability) are things you really value. What's much more likely, from the sound of it, is that they're proxies for things other people assume you want - safety, respectability.
It sounds as though you don't particularly want those things - or, at least, you'd like to trade them off for what this opportunity can offer you. That sounds like a good trade! In particular, if you feel "behind where you should be" on metrics like having-been-promoted, savings, etc, catching up a small amount of the distance (likely not even very much, as you'll hate the jobs!) sounds like a very inefficient source of self-esteem and being-cool-to-your-peers. Throwing your life up in the air and travelling and having adventures? That sounds a much better one!
Sometimes you hear, fifth-hand,
As epitaph:
He chucked up everything
And just cleared off,
And always the voice will sound
Certain you approve
This audacious, purifying,
Elemental move.
posted by wattle at 3:42 PM on December 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
I think there's no better time than the present and you have so much to offer students with your teaching credential and life experience! I'm a teacher who packed up my life and moved abroad to be a full-time student again at 35: COVID happened, which complicated things, but I have no regrets. It was super hard and much more expensive than planned but I loved it and miss it. I'm back in the US teaching public school again, saving money and taking a break, but I plan to live abroad again in 5-10 years.
My advice is to really consider your options. Join ESL teacher communities online and expat groups on Facebook in the places you'd like to live. Ask people for their advice, general and specific, and hope you hear all the nitty gritty: some countries pay ex-pat teachers super well but many simply don't and some situations are exploitive. It's the same thing in the US --- or Canada or wherever you are -- but as citizens, we have more rights and access to information. However, rarely are we ever stuck -- just also make a plan to be able to come back in a few years should you decide it's not for you.
I fully support you in this, like maya and wattle, because we only have one life to live! I'd work on making a plan to do this in two years or so. That said, living abroad isn't a way to solve our internal issues -- at best it's a distraction and at worst it sets them on fire -- so please make seeking out a good therapist to help you with your internal journey at the same time you prepare for the physical one. I waited to move abroad in part because I wanted to finish self-work because embarking on the many difficulties that were ahead. I'm glad I did.
posted by smorgasbord at 3:47 PM on December 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
My advice is to really consider your options. Join ESL teacher communities online and expat groups on Facebook in the places you'd like to live. Ask people for their advice, general and specific, and hope you hear all the nitty gritty: some countries pay ex-pat teachers super well but many simply don't and some situations are exploitive. It's the same thing in the US --- or Canada or wherever you are -- but as citizens, we have more rights and access to information. However, rarely are we ever stuck -- just also make a plan to be able to come back in a few years should you decide it's not for you.
I fully support you in this, like maya and wattle, because we only have one life to live! I'd work on making a plan to do this in two years or so. That said, living abroad isn't a way to solve our internal issues -- at best it's a distraction and at worst it sets them on fire -- so please make seeking out a good therapist to help you with your internal journey at the same time you prepare for the physical one. I waited to move abroad in part because I wanted to finish self-work because embarking on the many difficulties that were ahead. I'm glad I did.
posted by smorgasbord at 3:47 PM on December 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Just to add a different perspective: I have met one person who truly regretted moving abroad for the setback it caused in their career back home.This person wasn't a teacher and was dealing with an alcohol use disorder so I think that moving abroad was only a small part of the problem. However, it does support the suggestion of doing therapy before you go to help you be your best in terms of emotional wellbeing and resilience when you do go.
posted by smorgasbord at 3:51 PM on December 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by smorgasbord at 3:51 PM on December 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I choose to see myself as an amazingly lucky person in my 40s who has decided not to conform to society's expectations. My work history is sporadic and unconventional, as I tend to pursue whatever interests me the most at any given time.
I've been traveling and working remotely for most of the last 10 years, and I absolutely love it. I've spent a good amount of time in handful of my favorite central and south American countries and Canada, living very inexpensively and saving a lot. I'm debt free and am about to purchase a multi unit investment property in the US so I dont have to worry as much about maintaining employment.
If you dont have anything tying you to home, go do it! If you already know you like teaching, and you enjoyed studying abroad, I dont see why this wouldnt be an amazing experience for you. All the ESL teachers I know love their jobs, and some have country hopped and taught literally for their entire career. Some ended up finding other jobs in those countries, some found spouses.
Sometimes you have to take that leap of faith to get to a better place. I think you should go. Good luck!
posted by ananci at 3:56 PM on December 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I've been traveling and working remotely for most of the last 10 years, and I absolutely love it. I've spent a good amount of time in handful of my favorite central and south American countries and Canada, living very inexpensively and saving a lot. I'm debt free and am about to purchase a multi unit investment property in the US so I dont have to worry as much about maintaining employment.
If you dont have anything tying you to home, go do it! If you already know you like teaching, and you enjoyed studying abroad, I dont see why this wouldnt be an amazing experience for you. All the ESL teachers I know love their jobs, and some have country hopped and taught literally for their entire career. Some ended up finding other jobs in those countries, some found spouses.
Sometimes you have to take that leap of faith to get to a better place. I think you should go. Good luck!
posted by ananci at 3:56 PM on December 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
The one thing I'd be worried about doing it now is how Covid protocols, etc. are going in the countries you'd be considering. Otherwise heck with it, if you wanna teach abroad, go to it. One of my friends left her family to go teach in the UAE for two years, even.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:05 PM on December 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:05 PM on December 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I can't speak to the living-abroad question (overseas travel is Not My Thing), but I can speak to teaching while under the mental weather.
It's doable, at least for some. I've done it.
That you ask the question at all suggests that you teach from an ethics of care, which is super-important and a very positive sign. The rest, in my experience, is determination not to let whatever's going on with me get in the way of the teaching. It helps me to have a "teacher persona" (sort of a Goffmanesque mask) that's a little bit separate from (though of course informed by) my regular self.
Just remember to take care of yourself, too. I'm not as good at this as I wish I were.
posted by humbug at 4:25 PM on December 15, 2021
It's doable, at least for some. I've done it.
That you ask the question at all suggests that you teach from an ethics of care, which is super-important and a very positive sign. The rest, in my experience, is determination not to let whatever's going on with me get in the way of the teaching. It helps me to have a "teacher persona" (sort of a Goffmanesque mask) that's a little bit separate from (though of course informed by) my regular self.
Just remember to take care of yourself, too. I'm not as good at this as I wish I were.
posted by humbug at 4:25 PM on December 15, 2021
Just remember that no matter your workplace, the work culture and environment can really affect you from place to place. You may love teaching right now because you are well supported with minimal administrative tasks. Make sure you’re not setting yourself up for failure by ending up in a school with long hours and being overworked.
Other than that I think living abroad can be a great choice
posted by raccoon409 at 4:46 PM on December 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Other than that I think living abroad can be a great choice
posted by raccoon409 at 4:46 PM on December 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Let me tell you an absolutely great reason to move out of your home country for a bit: because you've always thought about moving out of your home country. It's the kind of thing that sticks with you, isn't it? I've lived overseas twice, first in my loser 30s and again in my loser 40s (like, what? I don't get the loser thing at all here). Both times I was able to move because it was work related, and I knew plenty of other losers my age doing the same thing, so I am going to dispense with the loser thing because even though you're talking about yourself, you've also sorta just insulted people who have done what you want to do, you know? Also, if you go overseas, you'll meet plenty of folks your age doing just the same thing!
Lots of folks with resources, or without significant responsibilities, manage to spend time overseas in their 20s, but those are generally folks from wealthier families, or at least without significant debt, and I'm not sure traveling abroad at that age is anything like living in a different country when you're any age.
And you don't have to do this forever. You can decide to try it for a year or two. And even if you move back to your home country afterwards, then doesn't somehow mean it was a failure. It could be exactly the adventure you hoped.
Also, some of those family members sound really unsupportive. I might flee the country too. I'd maybe stop filling them in on any tentative plans while you figure this out. Don't let them be the voices in your head.
Here's one final thought on this whole thing: climate change is a big problem, and flying a lot contributes to it. But spending time overseas is a great way to expand our minds and experiences. So, one better way, I think, to spend time overseas: go for a long chunk of time at once. Better to move abroad for a year than take 12 month-long trips (or whatever).
posted by bluedaisy at 4:48 PM on December 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
Lots of folks with resources, or without significant responsibilities, manage to spend time overseas in their 20s, but those are generally folks from wealthier families, or at least without significant debt, and I'm not sure traveling abroad at that age is anything like living in a different country when you're any age.
And you don't have to do this forever. You can decide to try it for a year or two. And even if you move back to your home country afterwards, then doesn't somehow mean it was a failure. It could be exactly the adventure you hoped.
Also, some of those family members sound really unsupportive. I might flee the country too. I'd maybe stop filling them in on any tentative plans while you figure this out. Don't let them be the voices in your head.
Here's one final thought on this whole thing: climate change is a big problem, and flying a lot contributes to it. But spending time overseas is a great way to expand our minds and experiences. So, one better way, I think, to spend time overseas: go for a long chunk of time at once. Better to move abroad for a year than take 12 month-long trips (or whatever).
posted by bluedaisy at 4:48 PM on December 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
When you research different places to potentially teach abroad, you might want to consider your income/expenses ratio so that you can (continue to) save for retirement. Compounding interest is a powerful force-- the the more you save earlier in your life, the more options your future self will have.
posted by oceano at 5:02 PM on December 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by oceano at 5:02 PM on December 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I mpved to another country at 38 (I'm 43 now), and did a complete life reset. While I did it for love rather than career, it did involve resetting that too. And, it's worked out fine and I'm happy. I'd say it's actually easier when older because you're not having to work out everything from complete scratch like you kind of are in your 20s.
So yeah, if you have the means, and you're not burning every bridge you have to do it, I'd say go for it.
posted by jaymzjulian at 5:02 PM on December 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
So yeah, if you have the means, and you're not burning every bridge you have to do it, I'd say go for it.
posted by jaymzjulian at 5:02 PM on December 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure why moving abroad in your 40s to teach makes you a loser. I did it in my 20s and enjoyed it and the reason I stopped was because my intention was always just to do it for a couple of years. I have friends that are still doing it and are in their 40s now and I don't consider them losers. In a lot of ways I envy them and I'm sure that in a lot of ways they envy me but we can look at each other and think of the paths we didn't take and still be happy with the paths we did take.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:16 PM on December 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:16 PM on December 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
You've found something that speaks to you,
it's something worth doing,
and you're hurting nobody.
You're also likely to keep thinking about it as long as you're miserable in your current situation.
I don't see the downside. One way or another this will be a memorable and formative experience. You potentially have a lot of life left to live, and it won't get any easier to make big changes unless you just jump in.
posted by Acari at 6:49 PM on December 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
it's something worth doing,
and you're hurting nobody.
You're also likely to keep thinking about it as long as you're miserable in your current situation.
I don't see the downside. One way or another this will be a memorable and formative experience. You potentially have a lot of life left to live, and it won't get any easier to make big changes unless you just jump in.
posted by Acari at 6:49 PM on December 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
Another hearty enjoinment to live your one precious human lifetime with as much beautiful abandon as you can! See the roundness of the world! Be humbled and overjoyed by humanness in a far-away place!
There’s good advice above about making sure that you’re on track to retire and thinking critically about making the move under COVID. Apart from that, I encourage you to think about ethics, a topic that expats often neglect. Some practices I value deeply include learning and paying respect to local language and customs, not cheating local labor laws, making sincere efforts to pay fair prices/wages, and paying unflinching attention to my own and other folks’ romantic intentions. That last one is particularly important - I have met far too many people who have said and acted on simple-minded, fetishizing shit like “Gender from Country X are the most beautiful in the world!”/“I can’t wait to go on vacation in Country X - the Gender there are so hot.” I have seen some happy marriages come of expats who dated local folks! But I think there’s a lot of gross power and preconception stuff going on in dating/sex as an expat, which will be especially important to keep in mind if you’ll be teaching.
Regardless of what happens, how wonderful to have a realizable dream of adventure! Hooray for you!
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 7:08 PM on December 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
There’s good advice above about making sure that you’re on track to retire and thinking critically about making the move under COVID. Apart from that, I encourage you to think about ethics, a topic that expats often neglect. Some practices I value deeply include learning and paying respect to local language and customs, not cheating local labor laws, making sincere efforts to pay fair prices/wages, and paying unflinching attention to my own and other folks’ romantic intentions. That last one is particularly important - I have met far too many people who have said and acted on simple-minded, fetishizing shit like “Gender from Country X are the most beautiful in the world!”/“I can’t wait to go on vacation in Country X - the Gender there are so hot.” I have seen some happy marriages come of expats who dated local folks! But I think there’s a lot of gross power and preconception stuff going on in dating/sex as an expat, which will be especially important to keep in mind if you’ll be teaching.
Regardless of what happens, how wonderful to have a realizable dream of adventure! Hooray for you!
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 7:08 PM on December 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
My father went to college in the late 1940's. One day he went to his geography class. The professor stepped to the front of the room, looked down at his notes, looked up, and said, "I don't know why I'm here. I'd much rather be driving a taxi in Paris," and walked out the room. They never saw him again. The department head took over the course.
Be that guy.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:53 PM on December 15, 2021 [29 favorites]
Be that guy.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:53 PM on December 15, 2021 [29 favorites]
My great aunt was like that. Among other things, taught on a military base in Korea just after the truce. She lived her life to the fullest on her terms. Go for it.
posted by flimflam at 9:16 PM on December 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by flimflam at 9:16 PM on December 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Two things - time and money, the first is more or less fixed - and it's much more fun/easier to travel the younger you are, and you're never going to get younger than now!
My dad (a cpa ) told me when young that in life you either have time, or money; they seldom coincide, whenever they do is time to live life on your terms.
Money, you can always earn more money - I don't want to sound flippant about it but I travelled a lot when I was younger - I could've bought a house and a square mile of land in '89 but spent 4 summers on the road cycling - what I'm doing now is a direct consequence of that time.
I've never got good about money, but I've seen some life, seen some places, done things many only dream of, money I find one of the most demotivating things there is, although what I'm doing now to earn is generally a lot more fun (except the first 2 hours of today which was a %^8ing nightmare). just my 2 cents worth here.
posted by unearthed at 10:22 PM on December 15, 2021
My dad (a cpa ) told me when young that in life you either have time, or money; they seldom coincide, whenever they do is time to live life on your terms.
Money, you can always earn more money - I don't want to sound flippant about it but I travelled a lot when I was younger - I could've bought a house and a square mile of land in '89 but spent 4 summers on the road cycling - what I'm doing now is a direct consequence of that time.
I've never got good about money, but I've seen some life, seen some places, done things many only dream of, money I find one of the most demotivating things there is, although what I'm doing now to earn is generally a lot more fun (except the first 2 hours of today which was a %^8ing nightmare). just my 2 cents worth here.
posted by unearthed at 10:22 PM on December 15, 2021
And isn't going abroad something you should do in your 20s, not your 40s, unless you're just a loser who hasn't properly established yourself in life?
I always heard that the reason one "should" do things like this in one's 20s is because often people have other obligations in the future like caring for children, caring for elders, mortgage, pets, etc.
I always felt the implication was of the person with so many obligations wishing or dreaming that they could be free to go explore other countries if only they didn't have all these other things that meant they couldn't.
Probably you will have some people who are jealous and wish they could go trying to act like they are better than you so as to assuage their ego, which might possibly involve them calling you a loser. But if you go to another country they can't do it to your face, and you can hang up on them or block them.
posted by yohko at 10:36 PM on December 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
I always heard that the reason one "should" do things like this in one's 20s is because often people have other obligations in the future like caring for children, caring for elders, mortgage, pets, etc.
I always felt the implication was of the person with so many obligations wishing or dreaming that they could be free to go explore other countries if only they didn't have all these other things that meant they couldn't.
Probably you will have some people who are jealous and wish they could go trying to act like they are better than you so as to assuage their ego, which might possibly involve them calling you a loser. But if you go to another country they can't do it to your face, and you can hang up on them or block them.
posted by yohko at 10:36 PM on December 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
moved a few times early in life with family. moved between countries now as an adult, and, even now, planning another move to Malaysia. I NEVER hesitate to consider a move because of the adventure it may give, but also of the new perspectives I may achieve about myself when I am out of my home element.
posted by alchemist at 10:59 PM on December 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by alchemist at 10:59 PM on December 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
FWIW I had a couple of friends who did the 'teach English in a foreign country' thing in their twenties.
They loved it but came home to like a $25,000 tax bill they spent the next decade+ paying off.
So don't let this stop you, but (assuming you are a U.S. citizen) remember that you will have to file and pay U.S. taxes even if you are working in a foreign country, and make a point to plan for U.S. taxes, budget for them, keep back money from each paycheck to pay for them, file thme each year, consult with the needed tax experts or planners to make sure you are doing it right, etc.
posted by flug at 12:58 AM on December 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
They loved it but came home to like a $25,000 tax bill they spent the next decade+ paying off.
So don't let this stop you, but (assuming you are a U.S. citizen) remember that you will have to file and pay U.S. taxes even if you are working in a foreign country, and make a point to plan for U.S. taxes, budget for them, keep back money from each paycheck to pay for them, file thme each year, consult with the needed tax experts or planners to make sure you are doing it right, etc.
posted by flug at 12:58 AM on December 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
Another friend I know who left a solid but extremely boring job to do something similar to what you are considering. In her case, she moved to a different country to work for an NGO.
Her friends & family told her almost unanimously that she was crazy, it was too dangerous, she would hate it, etc. I told her she was probably going to have the time of her life and even if she didn't, she could just come home in 6 months with nothing lost at all.
I am happy to say that I was 100% right and all the rest of her friends/family 100% wrong.
She's absolutely had the time of her life and in fact is on about her 3rd or 4th job in the same general sector - and now in a different country altogether.
Plus she's been able to travel, see parts of the world she never would have otherwise, and so on.
If that's the sort of thing you want to do, and you are still young enough and in good enough health to do it, and in a family/relationship situation where you can make it work, then now is the time. That's what I would say . . .
posted by flug at 1:09 AM on December 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Her friends & family told her almost unanimously that she was crazy, it was too dangerous, she would hate it, etc. I told her she was probably going to have the time of her life and even if she didn't, she could just come home in 6 months with nothing lost at all.
I am happy to say that I was 100% right and all the rest of her friends/family 100% wrong.
She's absolutely had the time of her life and in fact is on about her 3rd or 4th job in the same general sector - and now in a different country altogether.
Plus she's been able to travel, see parts of the world she never would have otherwise, and so on.
If that's the sort of thing you want to do, and you are still young enough and in good enough health to do it, and in a family/relationship situation where you can make it work, then now is the time. That's what I would say . . .
posted by flug at 1:09 AM on December 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
My ex-girlfriend's mother spent five years or so in the 90s teaching ESL in Prague after her divorce. She had a whale of a time. Do it.
posted by rd45 at 2:39 AM on December 16, 2021
posted by rd45 at 2:39 AM on December 16, 2021
I, too, think you should do it, but I also give you permission to get there, realize you hate it and leave.
Not quite to this level, but when I was in my 20s, I moved to NYC and expected to have the time of my life. Culture! Restaurants! Excitement! After growing up in the suburbs and then a small college town, I was going to be living the dream. Instead I was utterly miserable after the first month, and put up with it for 5 years partly to finish out med school and partly because I didn't want to admit to myself and others that this thing I'd been brave enough to do was, in fact, the wrong choice for me. After all, everyone is supposed to love living in NYC, right? Right? (And when I finally did get up the gumption to leave, I got a lot of "... Really?" from lifelong New Yorkers. I could go on a whole rant about the provincial snobbery of lifelong New Yorkers but I'll spare you.)
If you can do it financially and ethically, you should. But you should also be allowed to say, after a month or a year or five, "time to plan for something else."
posted by basalganglia at 2:43 AM on December 16, 2021 [10 favorites]
Not quite to this level, but when I was in my 20s, I moved to NYC and expected to have the time of my life. Culture! Restaurants! Excitement! After growing up in the suburbs and then a small college town, I was going to be living the dream. Instead I was utterly miserable after the first month, and put up with it for 5 years partly to finish out med school and partly because I didn't want to admit to myself and others that this thing I'd been brave enough to do was, in fact, the wrong choice for me. After all, everyone is supposed to love living in NYC, right? Right? (And when I finally did get up the gumption to leave, I got a lot of "... Really?" from lifelong New Yorkers. I could go on a whole rant about the provincial snobbery of lifelong New Yorkers but I'll spare you.)
If you can do it financially and ethically, you should. But you should also be allowed to say, after a month or a year or five, "time to plan for something else."
posted by basalganglia at 2:43 AM on December 16, 2021 [10 favorites]
The other thing that stands out to me in your question is the "running away from" vs "running towards." It sounds like the primary driver here is that you're unhappy and want a change; teaching ESL is a convenient and enjoyable alternative. You should still do it if you want! But it would almost certainly be a 40 hr a week job, if not more.
posted by basalganglia at 2:53 AM on December 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by basalganglia at 2:53 AM on December 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Hi there. I'm 41 and, though I've found my professional niche in life, I also am seen as being ambitionless as a result of not being willing to work for the private industry side of my field. I've been a dedicated nonprofit worker for most of my post-grad life. A few years ago, I faced a series of events that felt very much like my life was falling apart. In many ways that's what happened, but I have the hindsight now to recognize how much that had to happen (thank you, therapy). One of my responses to all of this was to grab my "non-professional" ambitions by the balls, including my lifelong desire to live outside the US.
Hello from not-the-US. 👋 It took about two years to figure out how to do this, but I shamelessly claimed every possible tool to get my work visa and, lol and behold, it worked. I'm thrilled. I wouldn't know if I didn't go. Moving isn't permanent if you don't want it to be. I can think of a million reasons to indulge yourself in this desire and maybe three reasons to urge caution in making a decision like this.
The biggest cliché in my mind was, without a doubt, I have one life and if I'm lucky it's only halfway over. My knees are getting rough already, so if I'm going to do this I'd like to have some spring in my step remaining when I do it.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 3:04 AM on December 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
Hello from not-the-US. 👋 It took about two years to figure out how to do this, but I shamelessly claimed every possible tool to get my work visa and, lol and behold, it worked. I'm thrilled. I wouldn't know if I didn't go. Moving isn't permanent if you don't want it to be. I can think of a million reasons to indulge yourself in this desire and maybe three reasons to urge caution in making a decision like this.
The biggest cliché in my mind was, without a doubt, I have one life and if I'm lucky it's only halfway over. My knees are getting rough already, so if I'm going to do this I'd like to have some spring in my step remaining when I do it.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 3:04 AM on December 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
People are obsessed with 40 hour weeks! I've taught English abroad in a country that isn't my home country. You can give private lessons, work with a school, choose your timetable to suit yourself. If you can get by on 20 hours a week and enjoy life, why not do it?! Some countries are cheap to live in. The one I live in is, and I don't do any extra work than I need to. Sometimes the things I love doing don't pay that much and I put my energy into that. If you can somehow earn loads doing something you can at least tolerate or at best enjoy then great, but it doesn't always work this way.
Have heard this recently from family members who've done nothing but work work work and not tried anything different in life or moved more than an hour from home. From my point of view we work so we can live. Hopefully you can also enjoy that work. So many people seem to just accept having a job you hate working as many hours as you can. There are lots of different possibilities. I recently took a "sensible" job for just the same reason...that I should "grow up". I hated every minute of it and I've just quit it.
Good luck! Why not try it? I've been trying to pluck up the courage to move again myself and I hope this is the year I do it. As someone else said...why not try it for a few months? No need to pack up your entire life. Sometimes a low-pressure move, just tried out for a few months, can be the easiest approach. You can enjoy the experience without thinking "this has to work".
posted by cornflakegirl at 3:44 AM on December 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
Have heard this recently from family members who've done nothing but work work work and not tried anything different in life or moved more than an hour from home. From my point of view we work so we can live. Hopefully you can also enjoy that work. So many people seem to just accept having a job you hate working as many hours as you can. There are lots of different possibilities. I recently took a "sensible" job for just the same reason...that I should "grow up". I hated every minute of it and I've just quit it.
Good luck! Why not try it? I've been trying to pluck up the courage to move again myself and I hope this is the year I do it. As someone else said...why not try it for a few months? No need to pack up your entire life. Sometimes a low-pressure move, just tried out for a few months, can be the easiest approach. You can enjoy the experience without thinking "this has to work".
posted by cornflakegirl at 3:44 AM on December 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
If moving abroad is your dream, then do it. I have friends who have done this at various stages in their lives: at 25, at 40, and at 75.
If moving abroad is not possible right now, there are lots of paid jobs out there teaching ESL. I have a friend who quit her previous career in her 50s, got certified as an elementary school ESL teacher, and is ridiculously happy now. I also have several friends who teach community college ESL courses--you likely need at least a master's degree for this.
posted by hydropsyche at 6:03 AM on December 16, 2021
If moving abroad is not possible right now, there are lots of paid jobs out there teaching ESL. I have a friend who quit her previous career in her 50s, got certified as an elementary school ESL teacher, and is ridiculously happy now. I also have several friends who teach community college ESL courses--you likely need at least a master's degree for this.
posted by hydropsyche at 6:03 AM on December 16, 2021
So don't let this stop you, but (assuming you are a U.S. citizen) remember that you will have to file and pay U.S. taxes even if you are working in a foreign country,
You can qualify for the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion
I lived and worked in China for nearly a decade and didn't owe US taxes because of this. Looks like you qualify if you work abroad for at least a year and earn under $112,000
posted by bearette at 7:47 AM on December 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
You can qualify for the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion
I lived and worked in China for nearly a decade and didn't owe US taxes because of this. Looks like you qualify if you work abroad for at least a year and earn under $112,000
posted by bearette at 7:47 AM on December 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
I taught ESL abroad for about seven years in my twenties and highly recommend it. Some life-adminny things that I didn’t see mentioned yet but which I heartily wish I’d known to pay attention to at the time:
- Be very aware of visa requirements, deadlines, and HOW you are going to be applying for that critical paperwork. If you’re not employed directly by a school who will help support or sponsor you, this may get tricky quickly. I had three years of Czech bureaucratic nightmare due to shifting visa requirements and lack of informed support from my employer (they tried to help, to their credit, but were as confused as I was most of the time). I do not recommend it - try to find an employer with a dedicated resource to assist with visas, if you can, or work with a third party who specializes in helping expats with this stuff, but absolutely do have a plan in place BEFORE you arrive, as there may be tasks/paperwork you need to start on immediately. Also, there are certain pieces of paperwork which will be easier to get in your home country ahead of time (notarized college transcripts, that kind of thing) rather than trying to get them from abroad. It totally sucks to be surprised by things like this on a tight deadline (and have to pay for expedited international shipping!!) so do whatever you can to get that info and whatever supporting documents you need, handled upfront.
- Also be aware of any kind of requirements to register with local authorities, etc. upon arrival, as this may bite you later on when applying for visas/residency. Ask me how I know.
- Someone upthread mentioned a CELTA, which yeah is pretty much a hard prerequisite these days, at minimum. There’s also the Trinity TESOL cert which is roughly equivalent, but CELTA is the gold standard and better known. If you haven’t got yours yet, it may be worth considering doing it in the host country where you plan to look for work. That way you can take advantage of their career office and local network.
- Nthing the recommendation to learn as much of the local language as possible - outside of just being the respectful thing to do, it makes your life loads easier on a day-to-day basis, and people will appreciate you for trying. It also opens up your social network beyond expats and English students. Depending on where you’re teaching that may be a small pool.
Edit: Seconding the foreign income tax exclusion - I didn’t owe anything.
posted by gleiris at 8:24 AM on December 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
- Be very aware of visa requirements, deadlines, and HOW you are going to be applying for that critical paperwork. If you’re not employed directly by a school who will help support or sponsor you, this may get tricky quickly. I had three years of Czech bureaucratic nightmare due to shifting visa requirements and lack of informed support from my employer (they tried to help, to their credit, but were as confused as I was most of the time). I do not recommend it - try to find an employer with a dedicated resource to assist with visas, if you can, or work with a third party who specializes in helping expats with this stuff, but absolutely do have a plan in place BEFORE you arrive, as there may be tasks/paperwork you need to start on immediately. Also, there are certain pieces of paperwork which will be easier to get in your home country ahead of time (notarized college transcripts, that kind of thing) rather than trying to get them from abroad. It totally sucks to be surprised by things like this on a tight deadline (and have to pay for expedited international shipping!!) so do whatever you can to get that info and whatever supporting documents you need, handled upfront.
- Also be aware of any kind of requirements to register with local authorities, etc. upon arrival, as this may bite you later on when applying for visas/residency. Ask me how I know.
- Someone upthread mentioned a CELTA, which yeah is pretty much a hard prerequisite these days, at minimum. There’s also the Trinity TESOL cert which is roughly equivalent, but CELTA is the gold standard and better known. If you haven’t got yours yet, it may be worth considering doing it in the host country where you plan to look for work. That way you can take advantage of their career office and local network.
- Nthing the recommendation to learn as much of the local language as possible - outside of just being the respectful thing to do, it makes your life loads easier on a day-to-day basis, and people will appreciate you for trying. It also opens up your social network beyond expats and English students. Depending on where you’re teaching that may be a small pool.
Edit: Seconding the foreign income tax exclusion - I didn’t owe anything.
posted by gleiris at 8:24 AM on December 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
taxes
Does anyone remember Mutant? In his profile he had a thing where you live in one country, draw salary from a company in a 2nd country, have citizenship in a 3rd country and there was at least one or two more pieces to it. I'm probably totally bungling it, but he was pretty sharp. Does anyone remember that bit?
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 8:27 AM on December 16, 2021
Does anyone remember Mutant? In his profile he had a thing where you live in one country, draw salary from a company in a 2nd country, have citizenship in a 3rd country and there was at least one or two more pieces to it. I'm probably totally bungling it, but he was pretty sharp. Does anyone remember that bit?
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 8:27 AM on December 16, 2021
I did not teach English abroad as part of a midlife crisis so can't speak to that, but I did spend several years teaching English abroad in my late 20's, and have some observations that may be relevant:
- It's great that you have enjoyed teaching ESL and have some certifications. It sounds like you are actually interested in that type of work, rather than just "wanting to get away." However, many of the "Teaching English" opportunities abroad are unregulated and you may be working with outdated curriculum and may have no agency on how you actually teach. In some countries you might even just be the "English speaking person" to recite sentences in front of a classroom while an actual citizen of that country "teaches". It can be hard to vet the opportunities before you're actually there. It's worth doing research and looking for schools that require certifications, and getting those certifications.
- Spending several years teaching abroad was reallllly bad for my career. Like, it STILL comes up in job interviews in a negative light occasionally, since I spent 3 years doing it and it's very different from the industry I'm in now, and hiring managers sometimes see it as a red flag that I'm flaky/unpredictable. Also when I got back it was realllllly hard to find a new job. Not only was I going through the stresses of normal job searching, I was also having to explain myself/assure the hiring managers that I wouldn't just jet off again. You could get around this by continuing to consult/freelance while you are in another country.
- ESL Teacher Expat communities can be toxic, alcohol-fueled and made up of many folks who could care less about teaching and just want to drink 24/7 or date a local. It's usually also a very transient community. I would focus on becoming friends with locals rather than expats.
Do I regret doing it? I got a lot of life experience, and there are some things I wouldn't trade. But I would have definitely vetted the schools more, gotten more certifications and made more of an effort to keep my career on an intentional path. I think it's also different to do this in our current economic and political time, so some of the stories about "I know someone who did this years ago and it was great" may be outdated.
posted by rogerroger at 8:33 AM on December 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
- It's great that you have enjoyed teaching ESL and have some certifications. It sounds like you are actually interested in that type of work, rather than just "wanting to get away." However, many of the "Teaching English" opportunities abroad are unregulated and you may be working with outdated curriculum and may have no agency on how you actually teach. In some countries you might even just be the "English speaking person" to recite sentences in front of a classroom while an actual citizen of that country "teaches". It can be hard to vet the opportunities before you're actually there. It's worth doing research and looking for schools that require certifications, and getting those certifications.
- Spending several years teaching abroad was reallllly bad for my career. Like, it STILL comes up in job interviews in a negative light occasionally, since I spent 3 years doing it and it's very different from the industry I'm in now, and hiring managers sometimes see it as a red flag that I'm flaky/unpredictable. Also when I got back it was realllllly hard to find a new job. Not only was I going through the stresses of normal job searching, I was also having to explain myself/assure the hiring managers that I wouldn't just jet off again. You could get around this by continuing to consult/freelance while you are in another country.
- ESL Teacher Expat communities can be toxic, alcohol-fueled and made up of many folks who could care less about teaching and just want to drink 24/7 or date a local. It's usually also a very transient community. I would focus on becoming friends with locals rather than expats.
Do I regret doing it? I got a lot of life experience, and there are some things I wouldn't trade. But I would have definitely vetted the schools more, gotten more certifications and made more of an effort to keep my career on an intentional path. I think it's also different to do this in our current economic and political time, so some of the stories about "I know someone who did this years ago and it was great" may be outdated.
posted by rogerroger at 8:33 AM on December 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you all for the lovely answers! I have a CELTA (although it's probably gone a bit stale) and part of the reason that I'd like to go is economic--a lot of jobs in my field have become more transitory and remote and I can pick up work on the side. Right now I have a steady non-profit job that, barring a complete housing market collapse, won't pay for a nice place to live within 50 miles of my office, and the idea of being house-poor in the same old place makes me feel trapped. (Workers who want to buy houses or rent near an office have been told to transfer to a cheaper COL area, but I don't have any friends or family there... I'm also a bit burnt out on American bosses and perhaps absence will make the heart grow fonder.)
posted by kingdead at 11:32 AM on December 16, 2021
posted by kingdead at 11:32 AM on December 16, 2021
I am fully supportive of you moving abroad to teach! But I also want to add this: if you've never lived abroad before, especially if you're going to a place that is economically "weaker" than the US, you will be in for a huge culture shock. I lived in Germany and in different parts of the US but damnnnn Argentina is completely different. I love it there but I was protected by my privilege: people work twice as hard to get paid literally pennies in some cases. Other than rent and meals out, everything costs about the same as in the US, which means everything is actually much more expensive. A lower COL often doesn't mean a cheaper life. Also, people will often assume you're rich because you're foreign and everything will be more expensive for you; a little price gouging is fine but not when you're earning the local currency. I really agree with rogerroger on ex-pat communities: you can meet some amazing lifelong friends but they can also be a cesspool of awful. I also second what Gotanda said. And what basalganglia wrote about running toward versus running away!
Something else to consider, since you love teaching ESL and hate your current job, is to become a career switcher and teach public school! For a few thousand dollars, you can take classes at night and be done in a year or two. You can teach for a few years in the US and then use your experience to find a better ESL/EFL job abroad. Or even spend summers abroad teaching or learning other languages. That's something also to consider: even for the most talented and motivated of us, becoming fluent in another language while working full-time or overtime is very, very hard. Starting to learn one now, regardless of your final destination, will definitely help!
posted by smorgasbord at 3:10 PM on December 16, 2021
Something else to consider, since you love teaching ESL and hate your current job, is to become a career switcher and teach public school! For a few thousand dollars, you can take classes at night and be done in a year or two. You can teach for a few years in the US and then use your experience to find a better ESL/EFL job abroad. Or even spend summers abroad teaching or learning other languages. That's something also to consider: even for the most talented and motivated of us, becoming fluent in another language while working full-time or overtime is very, very hard. Starting to learn one now, regardless of your final destination, will definitely help!
posted by smorgasbord at 3:10 PM on December 16, 2021
Right now I have a steady non-profit job that, barring a complete housing market collapse, won't pay for a nice place to live within 50 miles of my office, and the idea of being house-poor in the same old place makes me feel trapped. (Workers who want to buy houses or rent near an office have been told to transfer to a cheaper COL area, but I don't have any friends or family there... I'm also a bit burnt out on American bosses and perhaps absence will make the heart grow fonder.)
The sad reality is that this is the case for almost all single people living in the US on a middle-class salary in a coastal metropolitan area. If owning a house is your goal, then maybe switch to the private sector because teaching English abroad, while personally enriching, is likely to make your homeownership dream less of a reality, not more.
posted by smorgasbord at 3:14 PM on December 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
The sad reality is that this is the case for almost all single people living in the US on a middle-class salary in a coastal metropolitan area. If owning a house is your goal, then maybe switch to the private sector because teaching English abroad, while personally enriching, is likely to make your homeownership dream less of a reality, not more.
posted by smorgasbord at 3:14 PM on December 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
Be aware of what you plan to do in old age. Keep up to date with for example whether you have enough social security credits, or what any retirement or other funds are doing. Retain and maintain your connections with any friends and family who might help you out if you need to come home at short notice. Most people I know who've done this have had a close enough connection back home to use as a mailing address as needed. Keep on top of visa requirements, so that you are less likely to have to come home at short notice unwillingly.
posted by plonkee at 3:22 PM on December 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by plonkee at 3:22 PM on December 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
I left a safe office job (albeit early in my career) to teach EFL abroad and have worked with a lot of people at different life stages who made the change you're considering. The predictable but unhelpful summary is that it worked out for some of them, but not others and that you need to ensure you don't mistake your 'fantasising' for a more grounded view of what you would be getting into.
For example, some people for whom it didn't work out were indeed 'depressed/damaged/maladapted'. However, the degree of their past problems wasn't as important as their attitude to their new life. Those who suffered the biggest setbacks tended to have moved abroad believing that if they could just get away from their previous environment (which they blamed for all their problems), everything would be fine. Those who managed well tended to focus more on having an opportunity to work on themselves using the opportunities that living abroad offered.
Working and living abroad can be wonderful, but you're correct to identify the danger of romanticising it. Teaching is a great job in many ways, such as the direct human contact, but it's still a job. There can be workplace conflicts, boring administration, unnecessary frustrating obstacles etc. If you're hoping for a job you'll enjoy more, that's a much healthier expectation than expecting every day to be filled with adoring, grateful students from the moment you walk into the school.
While teaching EFL is morally superior to death ray construction, there are questionable aspects to it. There's plenty of racism in what foreign teachers are expected to look like and the elevation of native speaker teachers over local English teachers ('native speakerism') is very problematic. Many jobs involve perpetuating existing social and class structures by helping the wealthy and their children master the 'essential skill' of English which itself is linked to cultural imperialism.
There are ways to mitigate or avoid many of these problems and EFL teaching is not defined by them. However, I have met teachers who left their previous jobs to 'do some good' and instead become disillusioned. A realistic view of the profession will help you avoid that trap.
I could continue for pages about other aspects of living and working abroad but hopefully that answers the specific question you asked.
posted by Busy Old Fool at 4:06 PM on December 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
For example, some people for whom it didn't work out were indeed 'depressed/damaged/maladapted'. However, the degree of their past problems wasn't as important as their attitude to their new life. Those who suffered the biggest setbacks tended to have moved abroad believing that if they could just get away from their previous environment (which they blamed for all their problems), everything would be fine. Those who managed well tended to focus more on having an opportunity to work on themselves using the opportunities that living abroad offered.
Working and living abroad can be wonderful, but you're correct to identify the danger of romanticising it. Teaching is a great job in many ways, such as the direct human contact, but it's still a job. There can be workplace conflicts, boring administration, unnecessary frustrating obstacles etc. If you're hoping for a job you'll enjoy more, that's a much healthier expectation than expecting every day to be filled with adoring, grateful students from the moment you walk into the school.
While teaching EFL is morally superior to death ray construction, there are questionable aspects to it. There's plenty of racism in what foreign teachers are expected to look like and the elevation of native speaker teachers over local English teachers ('native speakerism') is very problematic. Many jobs involve perpetuating existing social and class structures by helping the wealthy and their children master the 'essential skill' of English which itself is linked to cultural imperialism.
There are ways to mitigate or avoid many of these problems and EFL teaching is not defined by them. However, I have met teachers who left their previous jobs to 'do some good' and instead become disillusioned. A realistic view of the profession will help you avoid that trap.
I could continue for pages about other aspects of living and working abroad but hopefully that answers the specific question you asked.
posted by Busy Old Fool at 4:06 PM on December 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Oh, I know it won't buy me a house--but I'd rather live in a tiny apartment somewhere new and interesting and doing something different than where I went to high school and doing something that I hate, which is simply going to make me bitter. Maybe that's a spendthrift attitude, though.
posted by kingdead at 5:40 PM on December 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by kingdead at 5:40 PM on December 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
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But, I also spent ~10 of the last 15 years abroad (and traveled a lot before that). I worked in India, Taiwan, Honduras, Ethiopia, Myanmar, and the Marshall Islands. My work was primarily in education. I have now been to 88 countries and spent a lot of time hanging out in places spending $5/day or something. I also have no debt and I am finishing a doctorate while sort of old.
This kind of life takes a few things - it takes some guts, most of all. Some of the people I know who did it 'right' have changed jobs, been unhappy, gotten divorced, gone into debt, etc! DO IT. GO! Happy to Zoom about it- feel free to message me.
posted by maya at 3:22 PM on December 15, 2021 [44 favorites]