Suddenly separated for the holidays - how to not lose my shit
December 7, 2021 2:26 PM Subscribe
Last weekend, my boyfriend and I decided to the holidays apart to "think things over about our relationship". I thought we were on the same page about our long-term goals and plans but he has been having some second thoughts. I leave tomorrow and won't be back until after the new year - how do I stay sane and not lose my mind with worry and relationship angst over the holidays?
I was the OP of this question (about asking my boyfriend to move with me to Canada next year). At that time he had agreed, and over the course of the next few months, we talked more about our future together - marriage, finances, maybe having kids, all that big stuff. All throughout he remained firm that he had made his decision and we would be moving and starting our lives together, there.
Last Saturday he sat me down and told me that he'd been thinking and was no longer so sure about things - he didn't want to give up the beginnings of a career he'd started here, he wasn't so sure he wanted to start a family on terms I'd accept (I was firm that I'd want him to be an equal partner in parenting, and that even with career etc his family would come first), in short he didn't feel like he was at the stage in life where he could commit so firmly by taking such a big leap (he is in his mid twenties, I am 29). This was something I always knew would be a possibility (a bunch of y'all even warned me about it in my original question!) but I still felt, and feel, devastated by it - all of my thoughts, hopes, daydreams of our future together came crashing down.
We've agreed to take some time off from each other. We cancelled our holiday plans which were split between our respective families, and I'm flying off to Canada to stay with my family tomorrow (luckily I have a job - that I hate btw - that can be done remotely during this time). We've still been living together since the big talk and I keep on blurting out what seem like desperately needy, pleading things. He is sympathetic and kind but maintains that he needs space to think, which is the right thing! But my anxious brain is still in emergency mode and I am almost physically sick with worry and sadness all the time, I almost want to break up just so that it ends (but of course I don't actually want to break up!). How can I get through this time without making things even worse and completely torpedoing my life as I know it?
I was the OP of this question (about asking my boyfriend to move with me to Canada next year). At that time he had agreed, and over the course of the next few months, we talked more about our future together - marriage, finances, maybe having kids, all that big stuff. All throughout he remained firm that he had made his decision and we would be moving and starting our lives together, there.
Last Saturday he sat me down and told me that he'd been thinking and was no longer so sure about things - he didn't want to give up the beginnings of a career he'd started here, he wasn't so sure he wanted to start a family on terms I'd accept (I was firm that I'd want him to be an equal partner in parenting, and that even with career etc his family would come first), in short he didn't feel like he was at the stage in life where he could commit so firmly by taking such a big leap (he is in his mid twenties, I am 29). This was something I always knew would be a possibility (a bunch of y'all even warned me about it in my original question!) but I still felt, and feel, devastated by it - all of my thoughts, hopes, daydreams of our future together came crashing down.
We've agreed to take some time off from each other. We cancelled our holiday plans which were split between our respective families, and I'm flying off to Canada to stay with my family tomorrow (luckily I have a job - that I hate btw - that can be done remotely during this time). We've still been living together since the big talk and I keep on blurting out what seem like desperately needy, pleading things. He is sympathetic and kind but maintains that he needs space to think, which is the right thing! But my anxious brain is still in emergency mode and I am almost physically sick with worry and sadness all the time, I almost want to break up just so that it ends (but of course I don't actually want to break up!). How can I get through this time without making things even worse and completely torpedoing my life as I know it?
ooh, this is a hard one. I think, first, you find a way to be gentle with yourself. Then, if possible, set a time each day when you get to worry for 5-10 minutes. During that time you can cry or journal or whatever you need to and then, for the rest of the day, say, "I've already worried for today so now I have to wait until tomorrow to do that again." (In the first couple of days, maybe give yourself a couple of scheduled worry sessions but try to get it down to one a day as soon as you can)
After that, find ways to help others out - either little gifts (picking up a coffee for someone), doing chores, or just complimenting strangers. All of these will help bring you out of this cauldron of worry and obsession.
Finally, really think about what you want your life to look like. If he doesn't want the same things, it's much better to go your separate ways now than to think he might change his mind later. Because, even if he does, it might not "stick" and you'll find yourself in a not-so-great place.
Wishing you all the best as you get through this. It'll be ok, it just might take some time.
posted by dawkins_7 at 2:51 PM on December 7, 2021 [7 favorites]
After that, find ways to help others out - either little gifts (picking up a coffee for someone), doing chores, or just complimenting strangers. All of these will help bring you out of this cauldron of worry and obsession.
Finally, really think about what you want your life to look like. If he doesn't want the same things, it's much better to go your separate ways now than to think he might change his mind later. Because, even if he does, it might not "stick" and you'll find yourself in a not-so-great place.
Wishing you all the best as you get through this. It'll be ok, it just might take some time.
posted by dawkins_7 at 2:51 PM on December 7, 2021 [7 favorites]
Have you two already decided how (or if) you'll communicate over the holidays? If you're going to, I highly recommend having some kind of schedule in place - you'll talk on the phone every day or every other day at 4, for example, but there won't be any other texting or emailing in between, so no one is freaking out that the other isn't responding to their "but what does this all mean??" texts at 2 in the morning. Also, then you can actually think about something else over the holidays, and you can tell yourself, "I'll tell him that at 4, and I won't think about it until then."
posted by airplant at 2:55 PM on December 7, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by airplant at 2:55 PM on December 7, 2021 [20 favorites]
Oh man, please don't torture yourself for months and months and months. This relationship is over. I know you don't think it is, but it is. Rip the bandaid off and move your life forward. Start the clock on the year it will take you to recover now.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:59 PM on December 7, 2021 [111 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 2:59 PM on December 7, 2021 [111 favorites]
Now matter you’re relationship status, start imagining how you want your life to look. It sounds like you already have some ideas- living in Canada, having children, etc.
When relationships end or are uncertain it’s so easy to focus on what’s lost, but instead think about the opportunities ahead
posted by raccoon409 at 3:02 PM on December 7, 2021 [14 favorites]
When relationships end or are uncertain it’s so easy to focus on what’s lost, but instead think about the opportunities ahead
posted by raccoon409 at 3:02 PM on December 7, 2021 [14 favorites]
I think it might also be helpful to clarify what the goal is here -- is it to become aligned on the same page with your original plan? To negotiate a different plan? To determine to what degree he feels comfortable committing?
I do think that you don't sound compatible. I thought that in your original question, too. I think the advice to take some time to think about what you want your life to look like going forward is particularly valid since regardless of whether this person is a part of it, you do have a plan.
posted by sm1tten at 3:12 PM on December 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
I do think that you don't sound compatible. I thought that in your original question, too. I think the advice to take some time to think about what you want your life to look like going forward is particularly valid since regardless of whether this person is a part of it, you do have a plan.
posted by sm1tten at 3:12 PM on December 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
he wasn't so sure he wanted to start a family on terms I'd accept (I was firm that I'd want him to be an equal partner in parenting, and that even with career etc his family would come first)
I just want to point this out in particular: it is so, so important to be on the same page as your partner when having children. The fact that he knows that he isn't on the same page as you, and told you up front, is a blessing.
posted by kdar at 3:14 PM on December 7, 2021 [62 favorites]
I just want to point this out in particular: it is so, so important to be on the same page as your partner when having children. The fact that he knows that he isn't on the same page as you, and told you up front, is a blessing.
posted by kdar at 3:14 PM on December 7, 2021 [62 favorites]
Oh man. Here's my takeaway from what you wrote. You need to go back to Canada and you need to get your life started with a life partner. This person is not ready to be a life partner and does not want to move to Canada. You should go to Canada and start over with someone who is already there for you on both counts. Do not start a family with this guy no matter what else you do.
posted by bleep at 3:14 PM on December 7, 2021 [59 favorites]
posted by bleep at 3:14 PM on December 7, 2021 [59 favorites]
Honestly, I think you should approach your time away with the assumption that you are at the end of your relationship. You don't have to break up officially, but you should consider yourself broken up.
Go no contact for the two weeks (or don't initiate contact). Do healing things for yourself - massage, nice meals, a good bottle of wine, buy lots of books, take a yoga class. Write about the positive things you want for your future and the steps you're going to take to make them happen. You need to come back from this two weeks with even more clarity about what you want for your future and what parts are negotiable and what are not.
If you don't break up and are able to find a path forward great, but if you do end up splitting you're in a better spot to move forward.
posted by brookeb at 3:38 PM on December 7, 2021 [26 favorites]
Go no contact for the two weeks (or don't initiate contact). Do healing things for yourself - massage, nice meals, a good bottle of wine, buy lots of books, take a yoga class. Write about the positive things you want for your future and the steps you're going to take to make them happen. You need to come back from this two weeks with even more clarity about what you want for your future and what parts are negotiable and what are not.
If you don't break up and are able to find a path forward great, but if you do end up splitting you're in a better spot to move forward.
posted by brookeb at 3:38 PM on December 7, 2021 [26 favorites]
I'm really sorry. This is really difficult. You are feeling terrible right now because you are breaking up, or scared that you are breaking up. That is what's happening. I don't know that "taking a break" is a great approach for you all right now if you are feeling that anxious and reactive. I think you are hoping he changes his mind. He will not change his mind, or if he does, he will change it back again. He doesn't want to move to Canada and shift his career and start a family. If he does this, you all could be in for a lifetime of resentment. If you stay there for him, you could also have a lifetime of regret.
And, if you keep this temporary break thing going, what's happening is that you are stalling on the break up. Maybe that's what you need, or maybe it's extending your misery. Maybe both?
You can love each other very much but not be able to build a life together because of different goals in life. Love does not conquer all.
Can you make this trip to Canada for the holidays a move home? Your previous question was about being totally burned out. A lot of folks were recommending you stick it out in that job. However, given the relationship upheaval, I do think it's worth considering packing up and going.
It sounds like you are in a tough spot in your relationship and your job. What happens if you make now the transition time, where you move back to Canada and start looking for a new job there and start building your new life there now? Maybe some of the excitement of a new start could help reframe this break up and job misery as something that's painful but is helping you move forward.
posted by bluedaisy at 3:47 PM on December 7, 2021 [16 favorites]
And, if you keep this temporary break thing going, what's happening is that you are stalling on the break up. Maybe that's what you need, or maybe it's extending your misery. Maybe both?
You can love each other very much but not be able to build a life together because of different goals in life. Love does not conquer all.
Can you make this trip to Canada for the holidays a move home? Your previous question was about being totally burned out. A lot of folks were recommending you stick it out in that job. However, given the relationship upheaval, I do think it's worth considering packing up and going.
It sounds like you are in a tough spot in your relationship and your job. What happens if you make now the transition time, where you move back to Canada and start looking for a new job there and start building your new life there now? Maybe some of the excitement of a new start could help reframe this break up and job misery as something that's painful but is helping you move forward.
posted by bluedaisy at 3:47 PM on December 7, 2021 [16 favorites]
You're really in a tough spot with a combination of things working hard against you being happy and I feel for you.
You shouldn't feel bad about being clear on what you want from life and from a partner and you're lucky in a way that your boyfriend has come clean about what he really wants, rather than either of you compromising beyond your limits to 'save the relationship'. It could be that your different goals are, in fact, a deal-breaker and the best thing for both of you is to move forward separately. I'm not a fan of the idea of 'trial separations' in general, but time apart may help both of you to see whether your relationship is worth the compromise one or both of you is clearly going to have to make.
I think you should treat this time apart as if it is permanent and talk after the holiday period to see how you both feel, but not contact each other during that time. At that point, you both need to decide whether things can work out from your respective positions and make a final decision on any future together.
Whatever ends up happening with the two of you, it's going to be a hard time, so be gentle with and look after yourself.
posted by dg at 4:18 PM on December 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
You shouldn't feel bad about being clear on what you want from life and from a partner and you're lucky in a way that your boyfriend has come clean about what he really wants, rather than either of you compromising beyond your limits to 'save the relationship'. It could be that your different goals are, in fact, a deal-breaker and the best thing for both of you is to move forward separately. I'm not a fan of the idea of 'trial separations' in general, but time apart may help both of you to see whether your relationship is worth the compromise one or both of you is clearly going to have to make.
I think you should treat this time apart as if it is permanent and talk after the holiday period to see how you both feel, but not contact each other during that time. At that point, you both need to decide whether things can work out from your respective positions and make a final decision on any future together.
Whatever ends up happening with the two of you, it's going to be a hard time, so be gentle with and look after yourself.
posted by dg at 4:18 PM on December 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
Partner is only seeing what they might give up, not seeing what they might gain, this is short-sighted. I think partner is not valuing you enough, at all. You deserve someone who can make a real commitment, who can take a risk.
Stay very engaged. Go to the museum, concert, lecture. Read engaging books, listen to a lot of music. Eat very good food. If at all possible go dancing, go to a Messiah or carol-sing-along. Listen to music while walking. Music + being in motion is fantastic. Distraction is effective; make it fun.
posted by theora55 at 4:21 PM on December 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
Stay very engaged. Go to the museum, concert, lecture. Read engaging books, listen to a lot of music. Eat very good food. If at all possible go dancing, go to a Messiah or carol-sing-along. Listen to music while walking. Music + being in motion is fantastic. Distraction is effective; make it fun.
posted by theora55 at 4:21 PM on December 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
Similar to a previous suggestion, I would start a relationship journal (variation on worry journal). Set aside time every day to write in it - all your rambling thoughts. The don't need to make sense, just put it all down. Something about having to put your thoughts in linear order and spell them out seems to help unwind the messy tangle a bit.
Then set a firm rule not to obsess about it the rest of of the day. If you can't stop thinking about it, then pull out the journal and start writing. If you don't want to write it down, then you have focus on something else (except for your daily journalling time)
Then spend of the rest of your time apart to focus on yourself - engage in activities you enjoy or that need to get done. Try to do some fun things. Try to get lots of contact with other living things. Try NOT to discuss your relationship with them. Make it goal that whatever heartache is coming your way, you will try not to let it ruin Christmas completely.
posted by metahawk at 4:27 PM on December 7, 2021
Then set a firm rule not to obsess about it the rest of of the day. If you can't stop thinking about it, then pull out the journal and start writing. If you don't want to write it down, then you have focus on something else (except for your daily journalling time)
Then spend of the rest of your time apart to focus on yourself - engage in activities you enjoy or that need to get done. Try to do some fun things. Try to get lots of contact with other living things. Try NOT to discuss your relationship with them. Make it goal that whatever heartache is coming your way, you will try not to let it ruin Christmas completely.
posted by metahawk at 4:27 PM on December 7, 2021
It'll still suck, but you will feel overall better over the holidays knowing that you have ended it and there is no anxiously awaiting the outcome and you are free to begin putting your next chapter into motion.
I strongly suspect that once you are back in Canada, with your family, looking around at things with resident's eyes...you will not actually be all that unhappy.
I also suspect you will come back home to a half-empty house. This dude has told you in giant flaming uppercase letters (but a calm sympathetic voice) that he's out. He doesn't want the life you want so much that he's willing to torpedo the holidays. This is not somebody who's ever expecting to spend Christmas with you again, or face your family, or have you face his.
This is an impasse that cannot be overcome by a few weeks of thinking; he already knows the answer. This is likely his idea of making it "easier" (ostensibly for you, actually for himself). He doesn't even sound particularly torn up about it.
If you absolutely can't bear to say it out loud until he's taken the toaster and left you the ugly lamp, you should at least go on this trip as if it has been said and taking care of yourself as if it is over. Like I said, I think you will be surprised how quickly you are only somewhat sad and frustrated that it's over but actively excited about the new possibilities in front of you.
posted by Lyn Never at 4:30 PM on December 7, 2021 [32 favorites]
I strongly suspect that once you are back in Canada, with your family, looking around at things with resident's eyes...you will not actually be all that unhappy.
I also suspect you will come back home to a half-empty house. This dude has told you in giant flaming uppercase letters (but a calm sympathetic voice) that he's out. He doesn't want the life you want so much that he's willing to torpedo the holidays. This is not somebody who's ever expecting to spend Christmas with you again, or face your family, or have you face his.
This is an impasse that cannot be overcome by a few weeks of thinking; he already knows the answer. This is likely his idea of making it "easier" (ostensibly for you, actually for himself). He doesn't even sound particularly torn up about it.
If you absolutely can't bear to say it out loud until he's taken the toaster and left you the ugly lamp, you should at least go on this trip as if it has been said and taking care of yourself as if it is over. Like I said, I think you will be surprised how quickly you are only somewhat sad and frustrated that it's over but actively excited about the new possibilities in front of you.
posted by Lyn Never at 4:30 PM on December 7, 2021 [32 favorites]
Yeah, this isn't a "break," this is full on breakup and any stalling about "taking a break" is just stalling. He's freaking and running away and there isn't squat you can do about that. You need to start planning for your life alone, I'm afraid. I'm sorry this happened to you.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:55 PM on December 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:55 PM on December 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
I'm sorry this happened. Go to Canada with the assumption that it's over. Start scouting your new life. There is no way to shorten the period of misery, but in the end you are so so so much better off that he told you now rather than a year from now. (Also generally you, and your future family, are so much better off without someone who doesn't want to be an equal partner in parenting.)
posted by praemunire at 5:19 PM on December 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 5:19 PM on December 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
You two just want different things and that’s ok. He was trying to tell you before without having to be explicit. Now he’s really telling you but you still won’t accept it. Let him go, for both your sakes. If it’s the right relationship you won’t have to beg and plead for someone to be with you. I’m really sorry, it’s over. And when you express as much to him, I’m sure you’ll see relief in his eyes that you’re finally acknowledging it so you can both move on. Go to Canada. Be with your support system and let them help you move through this and start your new life.
posted by Jubey at 5:22 PM on December 7, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 5:22 PM on December 7, 2021 [16 favorites]
Oh and to reiterate what has already been mentioned, the fact that he has no interest in being an equal partner in raising your kids should be reason enough to end it yourself. Very few guys would actually tell you this flat out to your face so bullet dodged there! Or you know, maybe this was his way of sabotaging the relationship so you’d leave him. Either way the message doesn’t get much clearer. He’s not the guy for you.
posted by Jubey at 5:26 PM on December 7, 2021 [33 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 5:26 PM on December 7, 2021 [33 favorites]
Yeah, optimistically maybe it would be possible to eventually work out location logistics - but there is no working out "I am not able to accept equal partnership in parenting as even an aspiration, never mind actually making that happen in practice." You may love each other very much but you want very different lives. That's not fair to you or to those children you hope to have one day, who deserve parents fully on board with and committed to their family.
I'm so sorry, but I think this is where you part ways. Whether you do that now or give yourself these holidays to sit with this first is up to you. I think you should do whichever feels least bad to you. The temptation may be too worry about what will be least bad for him, but he sounds like he is on top of figuring out what he needs. You deserve to prioritize yourself right now.
posted by Stacey at 5:38 PM on December 7, 2021 [7 favorites]
I'm so sorry, but I think this is where you part ways. Whether you do that now or give yourself these holidays to sit with this first is up to you. I think you should do whichever feels least bad to you. The temptation may be too worry about what will be least bad for him, but he sounds like he is on top of figuring out what he needs. You deserve to prioritize yourself right now.
posted by Stacey at 5:38 PM on December 7, 2021 [7 favorites]
One way to slowly retrain your brain with strong feelings like this is to mindfully feel them. So in small chunks, 5 min, 10min, half an hour, sit down and feel the physical sensations without turning it into a thought narrative and worry and future and the like. Just notice the physical sensation without any label: here I feel cold, there I feel electricity or heat or throat constriction. DO NOT turn it into “I feel anxious” or “mad” or whatever.
This will acclimatize your brain to get over the feeling. Doesn’t solve the issue at hand except reduces the emotional hijacking.
You can also look up vagus nerve calming activity, eg. box breathing.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 6:59 PM on December 7, 2021 [5 favorites]
This will acclimatize your brain to get over the feeling. Doesn’t solve the issue at hand except reduces the emotional hijacking.
You can also look up vagus nerve calming activity, eg. box breathing.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 6:59 PM on December 7, 2021 [5 favorites]
PS. As a Canadian also moving back home from the US in 2022, you’re making a choice for you and your future family and comfort and peace of mind. Feel a sense of freedom to live life as you need to and not be hampered by split goals.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:02 PM on December 7, 2021
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:02 PM on December 7, 2021
Response by poster: Look, I KNOW when I'm reading other people's relationship AskMes I'm always exasperated when the OP goes against everyone's exhortations to just break up already, so maybe ignore this update if you think it'll frustrate you?
When we both came home from today I confronted him about what exactly "thinking about things" meant during our time apart, and we had another heartfelt chat about our potential future, our worries and what we actually wanted out of life. The answer is: we don't know! I think some of the things that sounded like absolutes and hard lines on Sunday (and even in this question) about family, career, etc were attempts to grasp at something, anything that we could point to and say "this is what I Want From Life". For him it was career stuff because that's what he's embroiled in with grad school apps, etc, for me it was the idea of a family because literally every other person on my team at work has had a baby in the past 6 months and it feels like something that I, a cis woman nearing 30, "should" want.
So, we've agreed to still take this time apart to reflect and breathe with our respective support systems, but we are also going into it under the assumption that we will still be together in the new year and he reiterated that he is, in fact, 100% on board with moving, even if at some other point down the line we split up over something irreconcilable (see note below re: kids).
(On the "equal partner in parenting thing", I feel like I worded that a little unkindly - we both agreed that we'd want to be equal partners to any potential children, but my take was "hmm we'd both have to consider timing our various career ambitions carefully" and his was "hmm maybe we'd just not have kids". Neither of us are sure about the kids thing, but we know there's a certain timeline that needs attention if I, a cis woman, do end up wanting bio kids, and this may end up being what breaks us up if we land on opposite sides.)
posted by sock here, sock there at 7:40 PM on December 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
When we both came home from today I confronted him about what exactly "thinking about things" meant during our time apart, and we had another heartfelt chat about our potential future, our worries and what we actually wanted out of life. The answer is: we don't know! I think some of the things that sounded like absolutes and hard lines on Sunday (and even in this question) about family, career, etc were attempts to grasp at something, anything that we could point to and say "this is what I Want From Life". For him it was career stuff because that's what he's embroiled in with grad school apps, etc, for me it was the idea of a family because literally every other person on my team at work has had a baby in the past 6 months and it feels like something that I, a cis woman nearing 30, "should" want.
So, we've agreed to still take this time apart to reflect and breathe with our respective support systems, but we are also going into it under the assumption that we will still be together in the new year and he reiterated that he is, in fact, 100% on board with moving, even if at some other point down the line we split up over something irreconcilable (see note below re: kids).
(On the "equal partner in parenting thing", I feel like I worded that a little unkindly - we both agreed that we'd want to be equal partners to any potential children, but my take was "hmm we'd both have to consider timing our various career ambitions carefully" and his was "hmm maybe we'd just not have kids". Neither of us are sure about the kids thing, but we know there's a certain timeline that needs attention if I, a cis woman, do end up wanting bio kids, and this may end up being what breaks us up if we land on opposite sides.)
posted by sock here, sock there at 7:40 PM on December 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
he's really fucking you around, intentional or not, and it's a bad sign.
he is resisting pressure to have or commit to having children in his twenties when he doesn't necessarily want them, even if it means losing everything he really does want and love, and he is just as principled and right to do this as every woman who has ever done the same thing. it is not "fucking [someone] around" to gain and express clarity on your reproductive desires before knocking someone up rather than after. it is not any kind of red flag to be still clarifying these things for yourself in your twenties. it is the appropriately mature thing, and him telling the truth about it is the only responsible thing.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:15 PM on December 7, 2021 [53 favorites]
he is resisting pressure to have or commit to having children in his twenties when he doesn't necessarily want them, even if it means losing everything he really does want and love, and he is just as principled and right to do this as every woman who has ever done the same thing. it is not "fucking [someone] around" to gain and express clarity on your reproductive desires before knocking someone up rather than after. it is not any kind of red flag to be still clarifying these things for yourself in your twenties. it is the appropriately mature thing, and him telling the truth about it is the only responsible thing.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:15 PM on December 7, 2021 [53 favorites]
Are you actually unsure of what you want, though (with kids, moving)? Because you sounded pretty sure in your original post there and your previous anonymous question. I'm just saying, don't let his uncertainty erode your certainty in what you want.
Also, regardless of the whole un/certainty around where your lives and this relationship is going, what I'm sensing is that this guy is content to let things "come to a head" and for you to drive the hard conversations. Even in your latest update, you had to "confront" him to get to a point of understanding about not knowing what you both want? That sounds immature to me, and unfair. He should be doing some of that heavy lifting, too!
posted by tinydancer at 11:22 PM on December 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
Also, regardless of the whole un/certainty around where your lives and this relationship is going, what I'm sensing is that this guy is content to let things "come to a head" and for you to drive the hard conversations. Even in your latest update, you had to "confront" him to get to a point of understanding about not knowing what you both want? That sounds immature to me, and unfair. He should be doing some of that heavy lifting, too!
posted by tinydancer at 11:22 PM on December 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
I'm inclined to defend your bf against some of these comments, along the same lines as queenofbithynia - he's figuring it out step by step in the same way that you are. Per your original anonymous question, you sprang this whole thing on him in an unplanned kind of way (not a criticism!! that's very often how these things come out) and these conversations are unplanned and inconclusive versions of the necessary follow-up. OF COURSE they're pretty much incoherent and certainly incomplete and very much open to misinterpretation, because that's the only way in which many people are able to communicate in high-stress situations. We're like bad improv actors trying to make up the stories of our own lives. It frequently doesn't make much sense in the moment.
But... this much is clear though - you get what you said you want, which is to move to Canada in 2022 with or without him. Turns out that it's without him, but hey at least the rest of it is good. Start looking for a new job & a place to live. When you're over him & you're coming around to dating again, you can start to consider whether, when & with whom you might ever have kids but that's one for another day imho.
posted by rd45 at 1:53 AM on December 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
But... this much is clear though - you get what you said you want, which is to move to Canada in 2022 with or without him. Turns out that it's without him, but hey at least the rest of it is good. Start looking for a new job & a place to live. When you're over him & you're coming around to dating again, you can start to consider whether, when & with whom you might ever have kids but that's one for another day imho.
posted by rd45 at 1:53 AM on December 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
we are also going into it under the assumption that we will still be together in the new year and he reiterated that he is, in fact, 100% on board with moving, even if at some other point down the line we split up over something irreconcilable
It's all well and good to say this now, when you're both caught up in the emotions of going up to the edge of breaking up and backing away again, but I don't know if it's going to be true when you've had a month or so apart and (potentially) spent that time acting as if you've essentially ended things. Personally speaking I have my doubts that you're both going to come back on the same page.
I've had a couple of (cis male) partners do something similar towards the end of the respective relationships. Both times, when they went away to "think", what they were doing was, as it turned out, talking to their friends and family about the fact that they wanted to break up but didn't know how to do it. They were already halfway out the door by the time they told me that we needed to have a break, they just needed to get up the courage to actually rip off the bandage. For me, it was a horrible, anxious time and I would rather, then and now, they had just ended things quickly.
This guy is in his mid-20's. I know it doesn't feel it now, but that's very young to be thinking about things like this. His adult life has basically just started. I wouldn't be shocked if he has someone in his support system who is advocating for him to break up with you and that's why he's changed his mind.
I know this is hard, but if I were you I would go home and spend the holidays practicing "expect the worst, hope for the best". Try not to make any major plans, but come to terms, in your head, with the possibility that this might be the end. Grieve if you have to. Enjoy your time with your family and the meaningful relationships you have there. If you come back and he's ready to commit, great. But if not, you won't have spent weeks hanging on to something that's not real.
For what it's worth, even if this is the end now, it might not be the end forever. We never know what the future will look like. Perhaps he'll come around to you in a few years and you can see how things stand then.
posted by fight or flight at 5:31 AM on December 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
It's all well and good to say this now, when you're both caught up in the emotions of going up to the edge of breaking up and backing away again, but I don't know if it's going to be true when you've had a month or so apart and (potentially) spent that time acting as if you've essentially ended things. Personally speaking I have my doubts that you're both going to come back on the same page.
I've had a couple of (cis male) partners do something similar towards the end of the respective relationships. Both times, when they went away to "think", what they were doing was, as it turned out, talking to their friends and family about the fact that they wanted to break up but didn't know how to do it. They were already halfway out the door by the time they told me that we needed to have a break, they just needed to get up the courage to actually rip off the bandage. For me, it was a horrible, anxious time and I would rather, then and now, they had just ended things quickly.
This guy is in his mid-20's. I know it doesn't feel it now, but that's very young to be thinking about things like this. His adult life has basically just started. I wouldn't be shocked if he has someone in his support system who is advocating for him to break up with you and that's why he's changed his mind.
I know this is hard, but if I were you I would go home and spend the holidays practicing "expect the worst, hope for the best". Try not to make any major plans, but come to terms, in your head, with the possibility that this might be the end. Grieve if you have to. Enjoy your time with your family and the meaningful relationships you have there. If you come back and he's ready to commit, great. But if not, you won't have spent weeks hanging on to something that's not real.
For what it's worth, even if this is the end now, it might not be the end forever. We never know what the future will look like. Perhaps he'll come around to you in a few years and you can see how things stand then.
posted by fight or flight at 5:31 AM on December 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
After hearing your update, I want to reiterate my advice to use this time to clarify what you want for your future. I wasted a lot of dating time rationalizing/dreaming/hoping that the person I was dating and enjoying spending time with would meet those needs with just a little negotiation. And it NEVER happened.
Once I was clear with myself what I wanted, I was much better at cutting my losses when it was clear the person I was on a date with was still figuring things out or didn't want what I wanted. There is so much that you will need to work on, adjust, and adapt to in a relationship that you really need to be on the same page about the fundamentals - wanting commitment, marriage, kids, etc. If you are ready for those things and the other person isn't, then move on.
posted by brookeb at 9:36 AM on December 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Once I was clear with myself what I wanted, I was much better at cutting my losses when it was clear the person I was on a date with was still figuring things out or didn't want what I wanted. There is so much that you will need to work on, adjust, and adapt to in a relationship that you really need to be on the same page about the fundamentals - wanting commitment, marriage, kids, etc. If you are ready for those things and the other person isn't, then move on.
posted by brookeb at 9:36 AM on December 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
"If it sucks, we'll just break up later" is not the place you want to be starting from when making an international move. Cancelling holiday plans with your families the day before you leave is not a mature or considerate way to deal with doubts. It sounds like you want incompatible things, and it is a gift that he is actually telling you this now.
posted by momus_window at 11:49 AM on December 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by momus_window at 11:49 AM on December 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Yeah, separating around the holiday season is serious. That's "I can't even make it through Christmas faking that I want to be here" territory.
Unfortunately, he's younger and it doesn't sound like he's in the same place as you are on the life commitment scale. I really hope you work it out, but it looks like the odds aren't great. He's not sounding enthusiastic on the kid thing here and international only adds more pressure (but then again, it should) and if you are sure on the kids thing and THE CLOCK IS TICKING is going on in your brain, well.... You might want to consider what it would be like to be with him long-term without kids and see how you feel about it if you aren't certain and go from there. I'm not sure if you're just feeling pressure over your age and everyone around you giving birth or what, but you'll need to figure that out.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:32 PM on December 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Unfortunately, he's younger and it doesn't sound like he's in the same place as you are on the life commitment scale. I really hope you work it out, but it looks like the odds aren't great. He's not sounding enthusiastic on the kid thing here and international only adds more pressure (but then again, it should) and if you are sure on the kids thing and THE CLOCK IS TICKING is going on in your brain, well.... You might want to consider what it would be like to be with him long-term without kids and see how you feel about it if you aren't certain and go from there. I'm not sure if you're just feeling pressure over your age and everyone around you giving birth or what, but you'll need to figure that out.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:32 PM on December 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
OP, what I'm getting a sense of is that your boyfriend is really conflicted about moving, and that he sees the upcoming move to Canada as the first step of committing to a life he isn't sure he wants. I think you have made it really clear that moving to Canada in 2022 is what you want and what you've planned, and I think he WANTS to be with you but ... when he says that "he is, in fact, 100% on board with moving" this is the part I find concerning because this is the stumbling block that both your questions have in common. To be honest, this is actually the part of your original question that made me wonder about your long-term compatibility. I feel like you may want the same things but not in the same place at the same time.
I still do think you should reflect on a future that does not include him, at least in the immediate sense... and frankly, he should be doing the same.
posted by sm1tten at 1:54 PM on December 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
I still do think you should reflect on a future that does not include him, at least in the immediate sense... and frankly, he should be doing the same.
posted by sm1tten at 1:54 PM on December 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
The bottom line is this: you want to move home to Canada in 2022, which is something you're 100% sure about and you're going to do, with or without him. Reading through your posts and comments, he doesn't want to move with you.
In your anon post, he relented and said he would try. But it's clear he really doesn't want to move. Moving with or for someone is a BIG decision and one would only do it if they were really committed to that person. And I don't think he's ready to make that decision. It sounds like he wants to stay where he is, do grad school where he is, rather than uproot himself and change all those plans around.
In your previous post, you're talking about your own individual plans: quit your job, move, buy a house/more school/career change/retire earlier. When you're thinking about these things it doesn't sound like you're factoring in your bf - you're musing about YOUR future for your own self, not for the both of you. And maybe you'll say that you didn't want to include details about your relationship to distract from the main issue of the post, but it sounds like you're already dreaming about a future that doesn't include him?
I thought we were on the same page about our long-term goals and plans but he has been having some second thoughts.
All throughout he remained firm that he had made his decision and we would be moving and starting our lives together, there.
he'd been thinking and was no longer so sure about things
what we actually wanted out of life. The answer is: we don't know!
he reiterated that he is, in fact, 100% on board with moving
If he was actually 100% on board with moving, you wouldn't be in this position right now. He doesn't want to move with you. He may want to want to move, but he really doesn't. Both of you may not know what you want out of life, but you, OP, 100% know you want to move. And that is your right and you have to do what's right for you. He has to do what's right for him too, and that's probably stay where he is. "think things over about our relationship" really means he's figuring out how to break up with you gently and he's working out the logistics about moving, breaking the lease (if applicable), finding another place, etc.
I'm sorry OP. I don't see how these differences are reconcilable.
posted by foxjacket at 6:00 PM on December 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
In your anon post, he relented and said he would try. But it's clear he really doesn't want to move. Moving with or for someone is a BIG decision and one would only do it if they were really committed to that person. And I don't think he's ready to make that decision. It sounds like he wants to stay where he is, do grad school where he is, rather than uproot himself and change all those plans around.
In your previous post, you're talking about your own individual plans: quit your job, move, buy a house/more school/career change/retire earlier. When you're thinking about these things it doesn't sound like you're factoring in your bf - you're musing about YOUR future for your own self, not for the both of you. And maybe you'll say that you didn't want to include details about your relationship to distract from the main issue of the post, but it sounds like you're already dreaming about a future that doesn't include him?
I thought we were on the same page about our long-term goals and plans but he has been having some second thoughts.
All throughout he remained firm that he had made his decision and we would be moving and starting our lives together, there.
he'd been thinking and was no longer so sure about things
what we actually wanted out of life. The answer is: we don't know!
he reiterated that he is, in fact, 100% on board with moving
If he was actually 100% on board with moving, you wouldn't be in this position right now. He doesn't want to move with you. He may want to want to move, but he really doesn't. Both of you may not know what you want out of life, but you, OP, 100% know you want to move. And that is your right and you have to do what's right for you. He has to do what's right for him too, and that's probably stay where he is. "think things over about our relationship" really means he's figuring out how to break up with you gently and he's working out the logistics about moving, breaking the lease (if applicable), finding another place, etc.
I'm sorry OP. I don't see how these differences are reconcilable.
posted by foxjacket at 6:00 PM on December 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
OP, I think you are focusing too much on what he is telling you (“100% on board”) and not what he is actually showing you. The fact that he has initiated this break just before the festive season shows that he has serious doubts and apprehensions about the move, which try as he may, he can’t quite seem to get over/ rationalize. The flip flopping is also not helpful and is doing a number on you emotionally. Sometimes we just can’t force ourselves to truly want something, and in this case if the prospect of moving and thoughts of the future you want fill him with dread, then it is absolutely the wrong move for him (despite what he says on paper).
You shouldn’t minimize what YOU want as well - you’ve been actively planning this for a year or so and if the thought of a family and a life in Canada is what fills you with joy, you deserve someone who is genuinely 100% on board with you, and not dragging his feet like this. It’s hard and you both probably love each other very much, but it would probably be kinder to make a clean break and go your separate ways.
posted by pandanpanda at 5:24 PM on December 10, 2021
You shouldn’t minimize what YOU want as well - you’ve been actively planning this for a year or so and if the thought of a family and a life in Canada is what fills you with joy, you deserve someone who is genuinely 100% on board with you, and not dragging his feet like this. It’s hard and you both probably love each other very much, but it would probably be kinder to make a clean break and go your separate ways.
posted by pandanpanda at 5:24 PM on December 10, 2021
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Good for you though in being so clear about what you want. I wish I had been as brave as you when I was younger. You’re doing great!
posted by HotToddy at 2:49 PM on December 7, 2021 [31 favorites]