You're Not the Boss of Me
December 5, 2021 10:55 AM Subscribe
Can you help me determine if my tardiness is passive-aggressive behavior?
I have a job where I've been employed for nearly fifteen years. If I'm being realistic, it's likely that I'm late more than half the time -- up to ten minutes, but usually less, for the last five years or so.
We have a small staff where there are only two people working at once, occasionally three. The first person to arrive (the "Opener") arrives at 0600. The second employee was scheduled at 0615-0645 depending on customer volume. Four years ago we got a new employee who is habitually on time or early. She knows the system of staggered opening and she adhered to it for a while. Although, if she was scheduled for 0615 she would arrive at 0600 or earlier. There was a time before Covid where we were increasingly busy in the early mornings and we both agreed to arrive at 0600 without consulting the manager and the manger was fine with it.
So now the coworker is the opener by her habit of being early. I was always the one who did the busy work in the morning and had more responsibility and now she does it all and my morning responsibilities are less and less because she is there early and has done it all. Manager never told the early bird employee to stop being early.
Because of our new habit of both arriving by 0600 my manager no longer places times on the schedule. She only lists the names of the employees to work that day. Even though there are now no times on schedule if early bird coworker is off that day, I open and second employee arrives at 0630.
This is my main problem: If I arrive after 0600 when I'm working with earlybird coworker, I can tell she is upset/angry. She's moody and curt and won't make eye contact. I think she's boiling with anger but she gets over it in about ten minutes. I have other problems with this coworker. I have been regretfully moody and curt myself at times because I find working with her difficult. She's a perfectionist and she also interrupts and talks over people a lot. She belabors a point and she's a stickler for the tiniest details that don't matter. I've been upset about her vocalness about politics at work and I also think she has a big racist/mean/petty streak. So all of this taints my image of her and I'm reluctant to do anything to please her even though I am so kind and pleasant and respectful on the whole. I think she sees being late as a moral failing (I know I cannot read minds but I have strong evidence that she's angry and annoyed by lateness because other than her visible anger toward me she often complains when clients are late or no show).
Several months ago, for about two weeks, I started arriving at 0545 because I wanted to and this pleased my coworker. After a few days she mentioned it and I said, "Yeah, I don't know what got into me", and she said, "No, it's good", in a praising upbeat manner and this rubbed me in such the wrong way. It's like she's trying to teach me the right way to do things by praising good behavior. I think I'm peeved because I think she has no right to be mad or glad about when I arrive. It's not her business or concern and she's not my boss and technically she should be arriving after me if we adhered to the old ways of the schedule and my arrival time of five minutes late does not affect the workday and does not disrespect her time.
I have mentioned that both people don't need to arrive at 0600 and she usually says something like, "We could though because customer are arriving earlier and earlier", and I go along and now there is this established rule in her head that both parties should be there by 0600. Currently we do have two early customers who arrive at 0600 and 0615, so I should/could be there earlier than 0600 or right at 0600 since coworker is already there. I would like to be on time more often but I don't want this lady to think I'm doing it for her. When I type that out I can see the folly in my thinking.
Can you explain what's happening here psychologically and give me advice on the grown-up way to approach this? Am I wrong for being "late" in this work situation? I think I'm mostly offended that this lady feels like she has the right to be pissed about when I arrive. I admit that this sounds like the dumbest question ever but I welcome your thoughts about my perception towards the whole thing.
I have a job where I've been employed for nearly fifteen years. If I'm being realistic, it's likely that I'm late more than half the time -- up to ten minutes, but usually less, for the last five years or so.
We have a small staff where there are only two people working at once, occasionally three. The first person to arrive (the "Opener") arrives at 0600. The second employee was scheduled at 0615-0645 depending on customer volume. Four years ago we got a new employee who is habitually on time or early. She knows the system of staggered opening and she adhered to it for a while. Although, if she was scheduled for 0615 she would arrive at 0600 or earlier. There was a time before Covid where we were increasingly busy in the early mornings and we both agreed to arrive at 0600 without consulting the manager and the manger was fine with it.
So now the coworker is the opener by her habit of being early. I was always the one who did the busy work in the morning and had more responsibility and now she does it all and my morning responsibilities are less and less because she is there early and has done it all. Manager never told the early bird employee to stop being early.
Because of our new habit of both arriving by 0600 my manager no longer places times on the schedule. She only lists the names of the employees to work that day. Even though there are now no times on schedule if early bird coworker is off that day, I open and second employee arrives at 0630.
This is my main problem: If I arrive after 0600 when I'm working with earlybird coworker, I can tell she is upset/angry. She's moody and curt and won't make eye contact. I think she's boiling with anger but she gets over it in about ten minutes. I have other problems with this coworker. I have been regretfully moody and curt myself at times because I find working with her difficult. She's a perfectionist and she also interrupts and talks over people a lot. She belabors a point and she's a stickler for the tiniest details that don't matter. I've been upset about her vocalness about politics at work and I also think she has a big racist/mean/petty streak. So all of this taints my image of her and I'm reluctant to do anything to please her even though I am so kind and pleasant and respectful on the whole. I think she sees being late as a moral failing (I know I cannot read minds but I have strong evidence that she's angry and annoyed by lateness because other than her visible anger toward me she often complains when clients are late or no show).
Several months ago, for about two weeks, I started arriving at 0545 because I wanted to and this pleased my coworker. After a few days she mentioned it and I said, "Yeah, I don't know what got into me", and she said, "No, it's good", in a praising upbeat manner and this rubbed me in such the wrong way. It's like she's trying to teach me the right way to do things by praising good behavior. I think I'm peeved because I think she has no right to be mad or glad about when I arrive. It's not her business or concern and she's not my boss and technically she should be arriving after me if we adhered to the old ways of the schedule and my arrival time of five minutes late does not affect the workday and does not disrespect her time.
I have mentioned that both people don't need to arrive at 0600 and she usually says something like, "We could though because customer are arriving earlier and earlier", and I go along and now there is this established rule in her head that both parties should be there by 0600. Currently we do have two early customers who arrive at 0600 and 0615, so I should/could be there earlier than 0600 or right at 0600 since coworker is already there. I would like to be on time more often but I don't want this lady to think I'm doing it for her. When I type that out I can see the folly in my thinking.
Can you explain what's happening here psychologically and give me advice on the grown-up way to approach this? Am I wrong for being "late" in this work situation? I think I'm mostly offended that this lady feels like she has the right to be pissed about when I arrive. I admit that this sounds like the dumbest question ever but I welcome your thoughts about my perception towards the whole thing.
You agreed to show up at a certain time and you routinely don't... Does your boss know that?
posted by sm1tten at 11:10 AM on December 5, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by sm1tten at 11:10 AM on December 5, 2021 [13 favorites]
Best answer: It does sound like she is insufferable in other ways, and like you've reached the Bitch Eating Crackers stage with her, where whatever she wants or does is bad and wrong because you find her awful. Which is a reasonable thing, and it's not fair of her to be mad at you for not being EARLY to your shift.
But if you're supposed to be there at 6 and her at 6:15, her reliably showing up at 6 does not change your time to 6:15. SHE is the one who has 15 minutes of slack to be running "late" in the morning, not you.
It sounds like things have devolved since the beginning with the boss no longer setting times, but you were wrong to consider it okay to be late because you knew she'd be there. Showing up late because you know your coworker will cover for you is understandable every now and then but not a good look regularly.
I'd ask your boss to put start times on the schedule because there's some disagreement about what appropriate start times are, and then adhere religiously to yours, whether she is early or not.
posted by gideonfrog at 11:13 AM on December 5, 2021 [29 favorites]
But if you're supposed to be there at 6 and her at 6:15, her reliably showing up at 6 does not change your time to 6:15. SHE is the one who has 15 minutes of slack to be running "late" in the morning, not you.
It sounds like things have devolved since the beginning with the boss no longer setting times, but you were wrong to consider it okay to be late because you knew she'd be there. Showing up late because you know your coworker will cover for you is understandable every now and then but not a good look regularly.
I'd ask your boss to put start times on the schedule because there's some disagreement about what appropriate start times are, and then adhere religiously to yours, whether she is early or not.
posted by gideonfrog at 11:13 AM on December 5, 2021 [29 favorites]
Best answer: This isn't the "dumbest question ever," because there are no dumb questions.
You and your coworker are peers, who for whatever reason want to set expectations for each other as if you're supervisors. As a bonus, you don't like each other.
And your actual supervisor has checked out of their job, to the point that employees don't actually seem to know what time their shift starts.
It's a recipe for mess.
My suggestion is to take a big step back.
I'm wondering if the loosy-goosey expectations and your long tenure have you feeling a bit unsettled and bored, and you're trying to have some sort of pecking order dispute with your colleague to spice things up.
So yes, talk to your supervisor, find out when your shift starts.
Then take a big think as to whether this is a coworker problem, or if there's something bigger going on.
posted by champers at 11:29 AM on December 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
You and your coworker are peers, who for whatever reason want to set expectations for each other as if you're supervisors. As a bonus, you don't like each other.
And your actual supervisor has checked out of their job, to the point that employees don't actually seem to know what time their shift starts.
It's a recipe for mess.
My suggestion is to take a big step back.
I'm wondering if the loosy-goosey expectations and your long tenure have you feeling a bit unsettled and bored, and you're trying to have some sort of pecking order dispute with your colleague to spice things up.
So yes, talk to your supervisor, find out when your shift starts.
Then take a big think as to whether this is a coworker problem, or if there's something bigger going on.
posted by champers at 11:29 AM on December 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Agreed, she’s not your boss. But. You’re not her boss either. And you’re passively dictating her duties. Your boss should intervene but to your coworker’s credit, she hasn’t tattled on you.
I think you have to put all of your other annoyances aside for the purposes of this issue because this is the only thing this conflict is about.
posted by kapers at 11:30 AM on December 5, 2021 [17 favorites]
I think you have to put all of your other annoyances aside for the purposes of this issue because this is the only thing this conflict is about.
posted by kapers at 11:30 AM on December 5, 2021 [17 favorites]
Best answer: Since you "would like to be on time more often," go ahead and be on time more often. Who cares whether your colleague thinks it's because of her?
But long term, talk to your supervisor about putting times back on the schedule. And then be on time for whatever you are scheduled for. Your coworker's annoying personality doesn't change the fact that you should be on time if you're in a job where that matters, as it seems to here, and right now it sounds as if your supervisor thinks "on time" for you is 6 a.m. If you want to proceed as if you're scheduled for 6:15, get yourself scheduled for 6:15.
posted by Stacey at 11:50 AM on December 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
But long term, talk to your supervisor about putting times back on the schedule. And then be on time for whatever you are scheduled for. Your coworker's annoying personality doesn't change the fact that you should be on time if you're in a job where that matters, as it seems to here, and right now it sounds as if your supervisor thinks "on time" for you is 6 a.m. If you want to proceed as if you're scheduled for 6:15, get yourself scheduled for 6:15.
posted by Stacey at 11:50 AM on December 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
Best answer: It sounds like both of you are at BEC status with each other here. You don't like her, she doesn't like you, but you have to publicly get along. You know it would please her and you'd get along better if you're on HER schedule, but it's technically not your requirement to be there at 5:45. Maybe your being late is passive-aggressive revenge on her when you can't be open about how she's getting on your nerves.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:53 AM on December 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:53 AM on December 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If it were me, I think what I have been feeling when she praised my timely arrivals would be embarrassment that she was calling attention to it like that, because I knew I should have been doing better in the first place. I know some people do appreciate having their efforts to change praised though, and anyway it's my own problem, so I try to just say "thanks" through my shame and move the conversation along. So now the framing I'd use to myself isn't that showing up is giving in to her or trying to make her happy, but taking another run at fixing my behavior while resolving to not let such comments derail me this time. Because even if she does feel she has a personal stake in this, you can't control her feelings, only your own actions. Don't keep doing less than your best at work just to spite this person: it's hurting you at least as much as whatever she's experiencing, and might well get you in trouble eventually.
posted by teremala at 11:58 AM on December 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by teremala at 11:58 AM on December 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
You should get an actual schedule from your boss, no start time for the kind of job it sounds like you have is bullshit.
Also, it sounds like you are hourly employees. How many hours do you actually work, and how many are you paid for? When you started coming in earlier, did you get overtime or were you able to leave earlier? Otherwise you employer is stealing from you, every day, and you should contact your attorney general’s office about wage theft.
posted by rockindata at 12:08 PM on December 5, 2021 [10 favorites]
Also, it sounds like you are hourly employees. How many hours do you actually work, and how many are you paid for? When you started coming in earlier, did you get overtime or were you able to leave earlier? Otherwise you employer is stealing from you, every day, and you should contact your attorney general’s office about wage theft.
posted by rockindata at 12:08 PM on December 5, 2021 [10 favorites]
Best answer: Before answering this question, I looked through your post history. I recognize some of your previous questions, many of which seem to have a recurring theme. You have a strong external locus of control — you're overly concerned with people and events you cannot influence. I can tell you that people with internal locuses (loci?) of control are happier — because they are — but that doesn't really help you. It's not really actionable.
Instead, I'll give you a little mantra that I've adopted for myself (because I too struggle with some of the things that you're dealing with): Do what is right. Do your best. Accept the outcome.
In other words, focus on yourself and what you can control. Ignore the other stuff. If you do what's right (in this case, showing up on time) and you do your best, you've fulfilled your obligation to the world. You cannot control how the world (especially other people) respond. But if you've put forth your best effort and tried to do so in a moral, ethical way, then you needn't feel ashamed of anything. Does that make sense?
In this case, doing what's right and doing your best involves showing up for work on time, doing your assigned duties to the best of your ability, and not instigating conflict. If you do these things, you've fulfilled your obligation.
Anyhow, this has been a helpful mantra for me in the past, although I don't always remember it.
posted by jdroth at 12:12 PM on December 5, 2021 [53 favorites]
Instead, I'll give you a little mantra that I've adopted for myself (because I too struggle with some of the things that you're dealing with): Do what is right. Do your best. Accept the outcome.
In other words, focus on yourself and what you can control. Ignore the other stuff. If you do what's right (in this case, showing up on time) and you do your best, you've fulfilled your obligation to the world. You cannot control how the world (especially other people) respond. But if you've put forth your best effort and tried to do so in a moral, ethical way, then you needn't feel ashamed of anything. Does that make sense?
In this case, doing what's right and doing your best involves showing up for work on time, doing your assigned duties to the best of your ability, and not instigating conflict. If you do these things, you've fulfilled your obligation.
Anyhow, this has been a helpful mantra for me in the past, although I don't always remember it.
posted by jdroth at 12:12 PM on December 5, 2021 [53 favorites]
Best answer: I think your question “am I being passive aggressive” is a passive way to avoid acknowledging that you are in the wrong. Sorry, but being late is obnoxious to your co-worker. No idea what the business is, but if there are customers needing help, it does sound like it affects her. And, if you are getting paid for those 5/10 minutes, she could rightly feel it is not a fair situation.
But even if it doesn't really affect her, she is allowed to have an opinion.
You could talk to the manager and do a staggered opening again--coworker at 6, you at 6.30 or whatever. But, I would not be surprised if you continue to be those 5/10 minutes late, so that won’t change your co-worker's view of you. I also would bet you would not be different even with a colleague you really liked. You would just have a different excuse, such as they are nice and it is okay with them.
I have found that people who are frequently late have all sorts of excuses to justify what is, fundamentally a selfish action. Here, you are claiming her coming in early (although didn’t you both agree to a 6:00 start time?), is part of the reason it is an issue (because before no one was there to notice you were late? it is not clear). Also, because she is annoying, it is okay for you to do this. And if, god forbid, you actually showed up on time, it would make her feel satisfied, and you certainly don’t want to do that. So it is all about her and zero ownership on your part.
I suggest you stop with the excuse parade. Either follow the schedule or accept that being late will make people think certain things about you.
posted by rhonzo at 12:31 PM on December 5, 2021 [13 favorites]
But even if it doesn't really affect her, she is allowed to have an opinion.
You could talk to the manager and do a staggered opening again--coworker at 6, you at 6.30 or whatever. But, I would not be surprised if you continue to be those 5/10 minutes late, so that won’t change your co-worker's view of you. I also would bet you would not be different even with a colleague you really liked. You would just have a different excuse, such as they are nice and it is okay with them.
I have found that people who are frequently late have all sorts of excuses to justify what is, fundamentally a selfish action. Here, you are claiming her coming in early (although didn’t you both agree to a 6:00 start time?), is part of the reason it is an issue (because before no one was there to notice you were late? it is not clear). Also, because she is annoying, it is okay for you to do this. And if, god forbid, you actually showed up on time, it would make her feel satisfied, and you certainly don’t want to do that. So it is all about her and zero ownership on your part.
I suggest you stop with the excuse parade. Either follow the schedule or accept that being late will make people think certain things about you.
posted by rhonzo at 12:31 PM on December 5, 2021 [13 favorites]
Response by poster: A clarification and then no further interjections: I punch a clock and get paid for every minute I’m on the clock. If I were to go into overtime, I would get paid overtime, although I mostly work less than 40 hours. Coworker also punches a clock. Thanks for all answers so far. I appreciate them.
posted by loveandhappiness at 12:38 PM on December 5, 2021
posted by loveandhappiness at 12:38 PM on December 5, 2021
Best answer: This is a seemingly complicated question with a very simple solution. Just start work at 6am like you agreed, and you can both stop wrestling.
“The path is smooth, why do you throw rocks before you?” springs to mind.
posted by penguin pie at 12:44 PM on December 5, 2021 [15 favorites]
“The path is smooth, why do you throw rocks before you?” springs to mind.
posted by penguin pie at 12:44 PM on December 5, 2021 [15 favorites]
Best answer: Was 06:00 your time and the co-worker was supposed to be at 06:15? Or did you alternate based on the manager's schedule? If you used to always be the first one, then I can see why it feels like this other person in encroaching on your job in ways that you can't really complain about.
I think jdroth has excellent advice and I would add one more mantra to try "Stay in your lane" which means focus on your own stuff - don't worry about what she does or thinks unless it impacts your ability to do your own stuff.
posted by metahawk at 12:44 PM on December 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think jdroth has excellent advice and I would add one more mantra to try "Stay in your lane" which means focus on your own stuff - don't worry about what she does or thinks unless it impacts your ability to do your own stuff.
posted by metahawk at 12:44 PM on December 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Being late doesn't mean you're being passive-aggressive, it just means you're turning up later than you are supposed to. This is a thing that some people do and you seem to be one of them. The reality is that being late is a choice you make - it might not annoy you to be late or when others are late, but it annoys the hell out of some people (I'm one of them).
Don't overthink how your behaviour may be perceived by others or worry about applying a label to it, just fix your behaviour by turning up on time. If you can't bring yourself to arrive at the time you agreed with your co-worker, ask your supervisor to set the time and then adhere to it.
posted by dg at 12:49 PM on December 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
Don't overthink how your behaviour may be perceived by others or worry about applying a label to it, just fix your behaviour by turning up on time. If you can't bring yourself to arrive at the time you agreed with your co-worker, ask your supervisor to set the time and then adhere to it.
posted by dg at 12:49 PM on December 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
Best answer: You're Not the Boss of Me
I would like to be on time more often but I don't want this lady to think I'm doing it for her.
You don’t want her to think she’s controlling you if you come in on time, so you’re letting her actually control you by causing you to be on time less than you want! If you’re on time more often, you’ll also happen be less under her control.
posted by daisyace at 2:00 PM on December 5, 2021 [19 favorites]
I would like to be on time more often but I don't want this lady to think I'm doing it for her.
You don’t want her to think she’s controlling you if you come in on time, so you’re letting her actually control you by causing you to be on time less than you want! If you’re on time more often, you’ll also happen be less under her control.
posted by daisyace at 2:00 PM on December 5, 2021 [19 favorites]
Best answer: I think I'm mostly offended that this lady feels like she has the right to be pissed about when I arrive.
If originally you were scheduled for the earlier time and then just started coming in later because you felt she was there so you didn't need to - without discussing it with her - then it's not weird that she'd be pissed: she'd rightly feel like she was left holding the bag and that you were not completing your assigned responsibilities. And if you two then agreed to both come at 6, and you don't, it's also not weird for her to be pissed. She really is being left holding the bag.
You could switch it around and think: why does loveandhappiness think she have the right to be pissed about when earlybird arrives and how earlybird feels?
(In reality, the answer to all these "why does X have the right to be pissed" is "because they're human, right or wrong isn't the primary factor". You need to deal with your own feelings and do what's right by your coworker, even if you don't like them. That could mean showing up at 6, or clarifying with the manager and with earlybird that she's the opener and you're the one who should come in later, or something else.)
posted by trig at 2:23 PM on December 5, 2021 [7 favorites]
If originally you were scheduled for the earlier time and then just started coming in later because you felt she was there so you didn't need to - without discussing it with her - then it's not weird that she'd be pissed: she'd rightly feel like she was left holding the bag and that you were not completing your assigned responsibilities. And if you two then agreed to both come at 6, and you don't, it's also not weird for her to be pissed. She really is being left holding the bag.
You could switch it around and think: why does loveandhappiness think she have the right to be pissed about when earlybird arrives and how earlybird feels?
(In reality, the answer to all these "why does X have the right to be pissed" is "because they're human, right or wrong isn't the primary factor". You need to deal with your own feelings and do what's right by your coworker, even if you don't like them. That could mean showing up at 6, or clarifying with the manager and with earlybird that she's the opener and you're the one who should come in later, or something else.)
posted by trig at 2:23 PM on December 5, 2021 [7 favorites]
Best answer: Oh, and if you want to reframe this for yourself: You're not showing up on time for her; you're showing up on time for yourself, because of your own values.
posted by trig at 2:31 PM on December 5, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by trig at 2:31 PM on December 5, 2021 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Sounds like sensory overload, like you are trying hard to tune out everything and this coworker rudely reminds you of the fact that you are being observed.
I recommend morning meditation or morning exercise. Get up early so your mind is clear and you have gotten your me-time out of the way before work. That way you can face the annoying coworker a little stronger and they won't catch you on your back foot.
posted by jello at 2:51 PM on December 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
I recommend morning meditation or morning exercise. Get up early so your mind is clear and you have gotten your me-time out of the way before work. That way you can face the annoying coworker a little stronger and they won't catch you on your back foot.
posted by jello at 2:51 PM on December 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
Your lateness is certainly expressing something and, nice or not nice, it's not your coworker's job to decode it or live with it or earn the bare minimum of consideration from you by doing I don't even know what.
posted by less-of-course at 3:00 PM on December 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by less-of-course at 3:00 PM on December 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I relate to you so much in this question. You're not completely off the rails unreasonable to want to avoid the appearance of pleasing this coworker, or of having this coworker believe they control your behavior in an way, shape, or form.
Working within this mentality, I'd say the best bet is to be timely but using some other authority--either talk to your manager to re-establish your actual start time, or make timeliness a crucial part of your morning routine which is very important to you. That way, if your coworker has something to say about a timely or early arrival in the future, you can point to a pilates class or an after-work obligation (or whatever). Something completely separate from this coworker and their (perceived) wishes and judgments.
posted by knotty knots at 5:22 PM on December 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
Working within this mentality, I'd say the best bet is to be timely but using some other authority--either talk to your manager to re-establish your actual start time, or make timeliness a crucial part of your morning routine which is very important to you. That way, if your coworker has something to say about a timely or early arrival in the future, you can point to a pilates class or an after-work obligation (or whatever). Something completely separate from this coworker and their (perceived) wishes and judgments.
posted by knotty knots at 5:22 PM on December 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I am appalling awful at being on time early in the morning. It's not a strength of mine. I can do it, but when I do it's legitimately the hardest thing I'll do that day. I'm super lucky that my job doesn't require me to be punctual for work. I try to be early as often as I am late, and I track hours, but if I worked a job where five minutes made a difference, I would be considered a terrible worker.
And you're not being a great co-worker. By your admission, you've handed your opening responsibilities off to your coworker, because you're consistently late. And yes, she gets paid for it, and yes, your boss knows because he sees your timesheets, but she obviously values punctuality and prides herself in being on time, and sees your tardiness as a huge personal failing on your part. (Personally, I often find such people insufferable as they are almost always overstate how important punctuality is. However, it is important to them, so to avoid conflict, I do make more of an effort to be on time around them, like you tell anxious people that you got home safely to stop them worrying.)
You may be able to claw back some of her irritation at you by praising her in front of your boss. Doesn't work for everyone, but people who verbally praise people often value it, and she's tried similar tactics on you. And it sounds like you can be completely truthful, "Boss, coworker has really stepped up their level of responsibility over the past few years, and is now the primary opener. They're so efficient at it now, that by the time I get in, everything's generally ready to go."
Also, you might find some value in the Four Tendencies Framework by Gretchen Rubin. You sound like a rebel or possibly a questioner. I'm a rebel, and so many of my quirks were suddenly explainable.
posted by kjs4 at 5:32 PM on December 5, 2021 [5 favorites]
And you're not being a great co-worker. By your admission, you've handed your opening responsibilities off to your coworker, because you're consistently late. And yes, she gets paid for it, and yes, your boss knows because he sees your timesheets, but she obviously values punctuality and prides herself in being on time, and sees your tardiness as a huge personal failing on your part. (Personally, I often find such people insufferable as they are almost always overstate how important punctuality is. However, it is important to them, so to avoid conflict, I do make more of an effort to be on time around them, like you tell anxious people that you got home safely to stop them worrying.)
You may be able to claw back some of her irritation at you by praising her in front of your boss. Doesn't work for everyone, but people who verbally praise people often value it, and she's tried similar tactics on you. And it sounds like you can be completely truthful, "Boss, coworker has really stepped up their level of responsibility over the past few years, and is now the primary opener. They're so efficient at it now, that by the time I get in, everything's generally ready to go."
Also, you might find some value in the Four Tendencies Framework by Gretchen Rubin. You sound like a rebel or possibly a questioner. I'm a rebel, and so many of my quirks were suddenly explainable.
posted by kjs4 at 5:32 PM on December 5, 2021 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Yeah...you're definitely not making good choices (behavioral or mental) around this situation and I think you know that.
Don't make your mature and thoughtful behavior contingent on other people. Set a standard for yourself and stick to it, regardless of what others do or think.
posted by ananci at 6:43 PM on December 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
Don't make your mature and thoughtful behavior contingent on other people. Set a standard for yourself and stick to it, regardless of what others do or think.
posted by ananci at 6:43 PM on December 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Instead of making it about your colleague and what she does or doesn’t think, what is the actual time you’re supposed to turn up? Because that’s all that matters. If it’s 6am, turn up then. Every time. Whether she’s there or not has nothing to do with your professionalism in doing your job. She can think whatever she wants, also nothing you should care about. Turn up on time, work hard, be polite, go home. Nothing else matters.
posted by Jubey at 9:27 PM on December 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 9:27 PM on December 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I think I'm peeved because I think she has no right to be mad or glad about when I arrive.
She absolutely does.
According to your own questions, customers arrive at 6:00 and 6:15. You arrive at....???? Sometime after 6:00. Which is late for work. She is entitled to be annoyed by this.
It's like she's trying to teach me the right way to do things by praising good behavior.
Maybe. Or maybe she is just glad when you show up to work on time.
Currently we do have two early customers who arrive at 0600 and 0615, so I should/could be there earlier than 0600 or right at 0600 since coworker is already there.
Get to work on time. It is not for this lady - although I am sure she will be happy - it is because it is your literal job to do so.
posted by hepta at 6:15 AM on December 6, 2021 [2 favorites]
She absolutely does.
According to your own questions, customers arrive at 6:00 and 6:15. You arrive at....???? Sometime after 6:00. Which is late for work. She is entitled to be annoyed by this.
It's like she's trying to teach me the right way to do things by praising good behavior.
Maybe. Or maybe she is just glad when you show up to work on time.
Currently we do have two early customers who arrive at 0600 and 0615, so I should/could be there earlier than 0600 or right at 0600 since coworker is already there.
Get to work on time. It is not for this lady - although I am sure she will be happy - it is because it is your literal job to do so.
posted by hepta at 6:15 AM on December 6, 2021 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I would find her "No, it's good" comment extremely patronizing regardless of how it was intended (especially with your long tenure in the job). If you want to start coming in early, maybe you could plan a response for similar encouraging/patronizing comments, even just a distracted shrug/nod to show it has nothing to do with her and is none of her business.
Could you ask your boss to schedule shift start times again now that customer volume is lower? It sounds like it's not necessary for both of you to be there that early, so why should you work hard to be there if she insists on coming in and taking care of the opening tasks regardless?
posted by Gravel at 1:02 PM on December 6, 2021 [2 favorites]
Could you ask your boss to schedule shift start times again now that customer volume is lower? It sounds like it's not necessary for both of you to be there that early, so why should you work hard to be there if she insists on coming in and taking care of the opening tasks regardless?
posted by Gravel at 1:02 PM on December 6, 2021 [2 favorites]
Best answer: jdroth is bang on that you have an external locus of control. What that means is, you're watching others for their reactions and actions, and you're assuming those reactions/actions are because of what *you're" doing/saying. The problem is, you can never know 100% what they're thinking and why (unless you're a mindreader or they tell you directly, which isn't the case here) - it's always a moving target. You end up ascribing meaning to what they do and say (to inform what you should do and feel), which may not be accurate at all.
E.g. "I think she's boiling with anger"
"I think she sees being late as a moral failing"
"I'm reluctant to do anything to please her" (why are you putting yourself in the position of "pleasing" her?)
"I have strong evidence that she's angry and annoyed by lateness because other than her visible anger toward me she often complains when clients are late or no show" (It's perfectly reasonable to be annoyed at clients who are late/no show because if one has prepared for the appointment, then it was a waste of time to prepare.)
"It's like she's trying to teach me the right way to do things by praising good behavior."
"I think she has no right to be mad or glad about when I arrive."
"now there is this established rule in her head" (Emphasis mine)
"I don't want this lady to think I'm doing it for her."
"I'm mostly offended that this lady feels like she has the right to be pissed about when I arrive."
Do you see how you're watching her and guessing what she thinks is a function of what *you're* doing? Bottom line is: you know you're late, you know you're wrong in being late, but you are trying to justify being late by painting her as the problematic one for having feelings/thoughts about lateness, by imagining that she's trying to "teach" you, and therefore, you don't want to please her, and then you're offended that *you think* she feels she has the right to be pissed at your lateness. Friend, the calls are coming from inside the house.
Do you see how much power you're giving her? You can stop putting all this energy into imagining what she's thinking and why, and having all these thoughts and feelings about yourself as a result. Take responsibility for yourself: you could be the one to show up on time ("we both agreed to arrive at 0600 without consulting the manager and the manger was fine with it."), be professional and do your job. That's all you have to do. You haven't listed any conflicts with her other than the ones in your head.
In other words, this is all you. You've created a whole dynamic with her in your head. However, the fact you're asking this question means that you know something is up with you, you don't like it, and you want to change it - you're just having trouble putting your finger on it. Understandable! Therapy is Ask Mefi's go to answer and I'm going to invoke it here.
I'm totally armchair psychologizing - my guess is that you had a parent who wasn't clear with you about their expectations of you so you always had to guess what they were feeling and also manage their feelings (about you). And their feelings/reactions affected how you felt about yourself. So that's why you end up looking to others for cues about how to feel about yourself. (Ask me how I know all this!) I could be totally wrong though.
posted by foxjacket at 5:51 PM on December 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
E.g. "I think she's boiling with anger"
"I think she sees being late as a moral failing"
"I'm reluctant to do anything to please her" (why are you putting yourself in the position of "pleasing" her?)
"I have strong evidence that she's angry and annoyed by lateness because other than her visible anger toward me she often complains when clients are late or no show" (It's perfectly reasonable to be annoyed at clients who are late/no show because if one has prepared for the appointment, then it was a waste of time to prepare.)
"It's like she's trying to teach me the right way to do things by praising good behavior."
"I think she has no right to be mad or glad about when I arrive."
"now there is this established rule in her head" (Emphasis mine)
"I don't want this lady to think I'm doing it for her."
"I'm mostly offended that this lady feels like she has the right to be pissed about when I arrive."
Do you see how you're watching her and guessing what she thinks is a function of what *you're* doing? Bottom line is: you know you're late, you know you're wrong in being late, but you are trying to justify being late by painting her as the problematic one for having feelings/thoughts about lateness, by imagining that she's trying to "teach" you, and therefore, you don't want to please her, and then you're offended that *you think* she feels she has the right to be pissed at your lateness. Friend, the calls are coming from inside the house.
Do you see how much power you're giving her? You can stop putting all this energy into imagining what she's thinking and why, and having all these thoughts and feelings about yourself as a result. Take responsibility for yourself: you could be the one to show up on time ("we both agreed to arrive at 0600 without consulting the manager and the manger was fine with it."), be professional and do your job. That's all you have to do. You haven't listed any conflicts with her other than the ones in your head.
In other words, this is all you. You've created a whole dynamic with her in your head. However, the fact you're asking this question means that you know something is up with you, you don't like it, and you want to change it - you're just having trouble putting your finger on it. Understandable! Therapy is Ask Mefi's go to answer and I'm going to invoke it here.
I'm totally armchair psychologizing - my guess is that you had a parent who wasn't clear with you about their expectations of you so you always had to guess what they were feeling and also manage their feelings (about you). And their feelings/reactions affected how you felt about yourself. So that's why you end up looking to others for cues about how to feel about yourself. (Ask me how I know all this!) I could be totally wrong though.
posted by foxjacket at 5:51 PM on December 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
Best answer: I agree with jdroth in you're focusing on things that you just can't control, such as your co-workers thoughts and behavior. You can't control that, you can only control what you can do and how you react to her. I agree just doing your job is your best bet here.
But I think people aren't understanding the dynamic of your job and some are being being real sticklers about you being late and hyperfocusing on that when that isn't the crux of the issue in my opinion.
It looks like you are/were supposed to be the opener coming in at 6:00 but were routinely late off the time by up to 10 minutes. I assume it's not 10 minutes every time, rather a few minutes past six, which isn't so much as a problem for your business. I assume your business is supposed to open by 6:15-6:30 or so, but is flexible to your clientele if they let them in earlier. Your business expects a second employee to then come in at 6:15 after the opener has done the opening tasks, and this employee is there primarily to meet customer demand.
This person is supposed to come in staggered, after the business is open-- i.e. there is literally no point for them to come in with the opener employee, because it doesn't need two people to open, and they will generally not have much to do until clientele come in. If clientele come in early that's good but if they don't, having two starting employees show up at the same time is redundant.
This person had a routine where because of an uptick in customers she was coming in to assist earlier. Since then, even though things have slowed down and she was supposed to go back to come in at a staggered time, she continues to come in earlier than expected, and because of your tardiness she has taken it upon herself to do open duties because she is there first and you are not. Could you stand to be there by 6 on the dot? Sure. But it doesn't change anything because she's meant to be the staggered employee and she's meant to show up at 6:15 regardless of when YOU show up-- and she is showing up at the exact same time as you for no reason whatsoever. Even if you are 5 minutes late at 6:05, that doesn't give her the right to just open without you and get huffy about you not being there. It's none of her fucking business, and if your tardiness is a problem and it's affecting your clientele, then it's up to your boss to tell you to cut it out, not some Stakhanovite who has taken it upon herself to arrive before her allotted time, just to stick it to you and then tut and judge you for it. To combat this, you (subconsciously maybe) have started coming in earlier at 5:45 so you can do openings again. This has made her pleased because she holds everyone to her standard: someone who thinks that coming in super early and bending over backwards for her managers-don't-care job wins her brownie points in life, and if everyone were like her and took the initiative to start working fifteen minutes before opening, it would be oh-so-fine-and-dandy!
Work ethics like that are actually extremely toxic imo, and if you're American, I believe they contribute to a messed up work culture. When I was there, the amount of people I met like that was absolutely boggling, and all for this weird puritanical belief that going way above and beyond whats expected is close to godliness. People like this hold everyone else to this standard too. But it really isn't a good thing. We gripe about unseen labor in relationships, but willingly give a part of ourselves (beyond whats expected) to appease our bosses and jobs. This is bad. It's bad for the individual but it also is bad for the workforce as a whole because it undermines everyone (and as an aside makes it hard for people to unionize when one person is happily offering their services for much less than they're worth.)
Anyway I digress. I think it's a case of determining what your role is. Obviously your boss doesn't care who is opening-- if they did they might have said something to her. But if it's your role to do open duties, and it's the role of the second employee to come in later and assist clients, then get it spelled out. Get the times spelled out and the roles-- who is doing what and when. Also, do you want to open? It seems like you feel bad because she's essentially taken it upon herself to do your duties for you. Do you feel this makes you look bad? Does it make any difference to your bosses? I am guessing they don't care. Because if you don't care about opening, maybe you can be the staggered employee instead and then the problem is solved, you are coming in at 6:15 and if she doesn't like that too bad.
But if you want to have opening duties, then I guess your only real choice is to to come in at your time of 5:45 (which seems like it's OK since your clients are early birds) and open then. But don't do it for her. Do it because you want to and it's your role and your boss is on board with it. If it doesn't matter either way, then consider trying to let go. I have a feeling if you keep it up and come in earlier, she might come in even earlier, it depends if she is doing this to undermine you or not. If she is, you'll probably find out rather quickly.
Alternatively, why not switch shifts completely and start closing instead so you don't need to deal with this person as much one-on-one? If she is the Trumper in your other ask, I don't blame you for disliking working with her and wanting to avoid her. Being one-on-one with someone like that first thing in the morning sounds awful.
posted by Dimes at 10:58 PM on December 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
But I think people aren't understanding the dynamic of your job and some are being being real sticklers about you being late and hyperfocusing on that when that isn't the crux of the issue in my opinion.
It looks like you are/were supposed to be the opener coming in at 6:00 but were routinely late off the time by up to 10 minutes. I assume it's not 10 minutes every time, rather a few minutes past six, which isn't so much as a problem for your business. I assume your business is supposed to open by 6:15-6:30 or so, but is flexible to your clientele if they let them in earlier. Your business expects a second employee to then come in at 6:15 after the opener has done the opening tasks, and this employee is there primarily to meet customer demand.
This person is supposed to come in staggered, after the business is open-- i.e. there is literally no point for them to come in with the opener employee, because it doesn't need two people to open, and they will generally not have much to do until clientele come in. If clientele come in early that's good but if they don't, having two starting employees show up at the same time is redundant.
This person had a routine where because of an uptick in customers she was coming in to assist earlier. Since then, even though things have slowed down and she was supposed to go back to come in at a staggered time, she continues to come in earlier than expected, and because of your tardiness she has taken it upon herself to do open duties because she is there first and you are not. Could you stand to be there by 6 on the dot? Sure. But it doesn't change anything because she's meant to be the staggered employee and she's meant to show up at 6:15 regardless of when YOU show up-- and she is showing up at the exact same time as you for no reason whatsoever. Even if you are 5 minutes late at 6:05, that doesn't give her the right to just open without you and get huffy about you not being there. It's none of her fucking business, and if your tardiness is a problem and it's affecting your clientele, then it's up to your boss to tell you to cut it out, not some Stakhanovite who has taken it upon herself to arrive before her allotted time, just to stick it to you and then tut and judge you for it. To combat this, you (subconsciously maybe) have started coming in earlier at 5:45 so you can do openings again. This has made her pleased because she holds everyone to her standard: someone who thinks that coming in super early and bending over backwards for her managers-don't-care job wins her brownie points in life, and if everyone were like her and took the initiative to start working fifteen minutes before opening, it would be oh-so-fine-and-dandy!
Work ethics like that are actually extremely toxic imo, and if you're American, I believe they contribute to a messed up work culture. When I was there, the amount of people I met like that was absolutely boggling, and all for this weird puritanical belief that going way above and beyond whats expected is close to godliness. People like this hold everyone else to this standard too. But it really isn't a good thing. We gripe about unseen labor in relationships, but willingly give a part of ourselves (beyond whats expected) to appease our bosses and jobs. This is bad. It's bad for the individual but it also is bad for the workforce as a whole because it undermines everyone (and as an aside makes it hard for people to unionize when one person is happily offering their services for much less than they're worth.)
Anyway I digress. I think it's a case of determining what your role is. Obviously your boss doesn't care who is opening-- if they did they might have said something to her. But if it's your role to do open duties, and it's the role of the second employee to come in later and assist clients, then get it spelled out. Get the times spelled out and the roles-- who is doing what and when. Also, do you want to open? It seems like you feel bad because she's essentially taken it upon herself to do your duties for you. Do you feel this makes you look bad? Does it make any difference to your bosses? I am guessing they don't care. Because if you don't care about opening, maybe you can be the staggered employee instead and then the problem is solved, you are coming in at 6:15 and if she doesn't like that too bad.
But if you want to have opening duties, then I guess your only real choice is to to come in at your time of 5:45 (which seems like it's OK since your clients are early birds) and open then. But don't do it for her. Do it because you want to and it's your role and your boss is on board with it. If it doesn't matter either way, then consider trying to let go. I have a feeling if you keep it up and come in earlier, she might come in even earlier, it depends if she is doing this to undermine you or not. If she is, you'll probably find out rather quickly.
Alternatively, why not switch shifts completely and start closing instead so you don't need to deal with this person as much one-on-one? If she is the Trumper in your other ask, I don't blame you for disliking working with her and wanting to avoid her. Being one-on-one with someone like that first thing in the morning sounds awful.
posted by Dimes at 10:58 PM on December 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
Best answer: This person sounds unpleasant and nitpicky and I probably wouldn’t like them much, either. A big racist streak? Yikes. If she’s voicing loud, political opinions along those lines in your public facing workplace, have your customers noticed? That’s a red flag for me.
As far as the schedule, I would arrive when my boss expects me to and try not to spend any more of my one, precious life worrying about this coworker. You’re never going to talk to her again if/when either of you moves on from this job. There’s a nonzero chance that in 5-10 years, you’ll have forgotten her name. Don’t let her take up so much room in your mind, rent free. Good luck!
posted by oywiththepoodles at 4:49 AM on December 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
As far as the schedule, I would arrive when my boss expects me to and try not to spend any more of my one, precious life worrying about this coworker. You’re never going to talk to her again if/when either of you moves on from this job. There’s a nonzero chance that in 5-10 years, you’ll have forgotten her name. Don’t let her take up so much room in your mind, rent free. Good luck!
posted by oywiththepoodles at 4:49 AM on December 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by phunniemee at 11:01 AM on December 5, 2021 [68 favorites]