Is my dishwasher haunted?

November 1, 2021 5:56 PM

My dishwasher has three racks. The top one is a shallow rack for silverware, with handy indentations for the silverware to snugly rest in. On approximately one time out of eight, when I pull the top rack out to add more silverware, the current silverware has left its designated place and is all jumbled together. Forks and spoons lying down together. It's anarchy. Why does this happen?

I have tried to manually recreate the mess. But when I load up the silverware and push the rack in with a belligerent, hostile, jostling manner, the silverware remains neatly in place.

I have tried reversing the direction of the silverware, to no effect.

I have verified that the silverware is probably not being moved around by overly large dishes in the lower rack.

I have snuck up on the dishwasher five minutes after loading the silverware to see if I can catch the silverware sneaking out of its assigned place, but haven't been able to catch them at it.

The anarchy does not occur while the dishwasher is running. The silverware is always in place at the end of cycle. It moves between meals. Like I put a bunch of silverware in after breakfast, and when I open it up to add the lunch silverware all hell has broken loose.

I have googled the shit out this, but to no avail.

Why does the silverware move?

posted by lumpy to Home & Garden (27 answers total)

And no one else is fiddling with the dishwasher when you’re not watching it?
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 6:07 PM on November 1, 2021 [4 favorites]

Could it be that the indentations that are holding the silverware are expanding/contracting due to temperature changes?

When you put in the silverware and then when it's been moved by itself, do the indentations feel any different?
posted by meowzilla at 6:13 PM on November 1, 2021

Could we get a picture of the rack, or a make/model of the dishwasher so we can Google some pics? I’m having a hard time visualizing this rack.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 6:22 PM on November 1, 2021 [1 favorite]

Instead of a belligerent jostle, could you try a sharp jerk for the last inch, as if you didn't slide the rack all the way in, and the door is shoving it in the rest of the way?

And seconding the request for a photo--in particular, a before/after would be of interest. You might need to take several 'before's until you can obtain the corresponding 'after'. (This could also help you determine if additional items are being added between meals, which might point to a more human source.)
posted by yuwtze at 6:40 PM on November 1, 2021 [2 favorites]

Is some of your silverware so wide that it's rubbing against the top of the dishwasher when you push it in? Since this only happens approximately one out of eight times, that would be my guess - that some pieces are wide enough to scrape against the inside top and then are moved out of place during the opening/closing motion of the rack. If it's not that, then I DON'T KNOW.
posted by wondermouse at 6:50 PM on November 1, 2021 [4 favorites]

This article has a bunch of photos of third racks.
posted by soelo at 7:10 PM on November 1, 2021

Are you the only user of the dishwasher? Someone else in my family uses the third rack while I almost never use it and forget to check it when emptying the dishwasher. As I do most of the dishwashing it means the items in that third rack often go through a couple of cycles in there before they get cleared…..I’m wondering if something similar is happening and the multiple runs increase the chance of entropy in their arrangement?
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:35 PM on November 1, 2021

The simplest sounding explanation to me is that when either pulling or pushing the rack, there’s occasionally some friction with the wheels or track that causes the rack to judder and the silverware to bounce out of place. But when you “push the rack in with a belligerent, hostile, jostling manner,” that overcomes the friction and makes it move smoothly.

Try pushing or pulling the rack more slowly or casually and see if that ever causes the silverware to abandon its post.
posted by ejs at 8:02 PM on November 1, 2021

We have something similar but, uh, less colorful, happen with our three rack dishwasher. In our house, the mayhem seems to occur when someone pulls out the top rack quickly. Our solution is to make sure the bowl of the spoon or fork is nestled between the guides, rather than the flatware handle. FWIW, our rack looks like the one pictured right under the heading "Test" in the article soelo linked.
posted by DrGail at 8:07 PM on November 1, 2021

Do you live with anyone who likes to mess with people?
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:00 PM on November 1, 2021 [1 favorite]

I know many people who would do exactly this kind of thing to an anti-slob who was annoying them.

I no longer live with any of those people.
posted by flabdablet at 11:30 PM on November 1, 2021

On a less suspicious note, sometimes the third rack in our machine hits a bump as I slide it out, usually as some lumpy feature on its underside rides over something slightly too tall in the second rack. It only takes one decent bump to make a lot of the cutlery jump out of its little slots. It's much more likely to do that with an up-and-down bump than an in-and-out jostle.
posted by flabdablet at 2:50 AM on November 2, 2021 [2 favorites]

If this is happening when the machine is not running, and you're not experiencing daily earthquakes where you live, someone is going into the machine and moving the utensils.
posted by jonathanhughes at 4:07 AM on November 2, 2021

Unless you live alone I would immediately assume someone else is doing this.
posted by aspersioncast at 4:48 AM on November 2, 2021

Do you have children? Because I do, and they're monsters. They are perfectly aware of how to load dirty utensils into the third rack, but unless I'm *watching* them (in which case they will do a passable job) they throw it in there in such a way that ALL the utensils end up in a messy pile.
posted by zibra at 6:45 AM on November 2, 2021 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Here is a pic showing all three racks in a closed position.

And here is a pic showing just the silverware rack.

I live with my wife and teenage daughter. While I wouldn't put it past either of them, this has happened when I'm home alone. Most common scenario is that I have loaded dirty silverware either after breakfast or lunch, and when I go to add dirty silverware following the next meal the silverware in the rack is all kittywampus.

Per wondermouse and flabablet's comments, my best guess has always been that the extra-wide spoons occassionally catch on either the top of the dishwasher or something that is slightly too tall on the lower rack. And then the extra-wide spoons will tumble into and dislodge adjacent silverware, resulting in the jumbled up mess. I still think this probably has to be the explanation. But if that's the case, why can't I deliberately recreate it?
posted by lumpy at 8:18 AM on November 2, 2021 [1 favorite]

I have your model of dishwasher, and it, too, is haunted in this way. Often I have gently closed the third rack, then moments later found another piece of silverware to add, opened the rack and discovered a spoony moshpit. I have no answer for you, but there's no need to theorize the malicious involvement of others — this dishwasher is happy to shuffle the silver all on its lonesome.
posted by mumkin at 8:36 AM on November 2, 2021 [6 favorites]

I have the same or very similar model of dishwasher. I have not experienced the ghostly jostling of silverware like you describe. However--we load up the cutlery much closer together than you have in your photo--maybe skipping one row between items but not always. Perhaps having them snuggled together helps keep them in place? Also, while that top rack is very shallow, the depth is adjustable to a small degree so occasionally a piece (like the lid of a water bottle) that fit yesterday no longer does, because the rack has been set higher. So the now-too-big-piece goes in fine, but will catch the roof of the dishwasher and jump around within the rack when pulled out. Might be the cause of your problems.
That said--I have see other people loading this same style of dishwasher with MUCH less thought to how silverware should go in, literally just tossing it in like you would a basket. Any chance your spouse or kid have a more relaxed style of dish loading?
posted by Jemstar at 9:05 AM on November 2, 2021 [1 favorite]

Ours is a Bosch as well, and when we first got it I hated the fiddliness of the top tray. Kept threatening to take it out and get an ordinary basket for the bottom deck, but never got around to it and I'm used to it now.

Perhaps somebody else in your household would also be happier with a basket you can just throw cutlery in rather than a chichi little shelf that demands careful placement and steals valuable loading space from the top crockery rack. Worth asking?

Also, I have yet to meet a kid who cares about mundane trivia like loading the second shelf in a dishwasher in such a way that it doesn't bump into the top rack and unseat all the cutlery.
posted by flabdablet at 10:08 AM on November 2, 2021 [1 favorite]

I have the same issue...I think the little slots that are supposed to hold the silverware are a bit too narrow, so are actually acting like springs that very slowly push the utensil back out. I've given up on using the slots and just use the top rack for container lids.
posted by Eddie Mars at 10:50 AM on November 2, 2021 [1 favorite]

I have a Bosch with the same top rack. My silverware fits it quite well, and I’ve never had it get dislodged on its own. However, I experimented just now and found that a sharp upward jolt to the rack can make the utensils jump out of their slots. This could happen if something hits the rack from below (maybe a loose container shooting upward on a jet of water?), or perhaps from someone very energetically grabbing the rack to slide it open or closed, or maybe even from the door hitting the rack as it closes.
posted by mbrubeck at 12:44 PM on November 2, 2021

We also have the same dishwasher, but don't use it for silverware (we use it for flat things, like lids from tupperware). But I am now tempted to try and see if I can recreate.
posted by taltalim at 12:46 PM on November 2, 2021 [1 favorite]

Perhaps it's dishwasher inspectors.
posted by flabdablet at 3:01 AM on November 3, 2021

We have this as well with our Bosch top rack - I think it's to do with the friction on the top rack, plus the hitting the roof issue mentioned above. I think things slide downhill, rest against the roof of the dishwasher, and then do a break-dancing style spin on opening, taking out nearby cutlery neighbours! Some cutlery items are worse than others, looking at you slippy knives and big spoons.
posted by london explorer girl at 4:33 AM on November 3, 2021

Bosch top racks also seem a bit susceptible to having their guide rails go awry, and when that happens the rack is more likely to bump into other stuff.
posted by flabdablet at 5:02 AM on November 3, 2021

Ah yes, I have that same dishwasher top rack. It took me a while to realize my widest tablespoons were knocking against the inside top of the dishwasher when I moved that rack.

Getting them not to hit the top while using the provided slots as designed was a bit fiddly. I load forks and spoons in the opposite direction from your picture - handles toward the middle. I do load knives the way you have them, but I put all the forks and spoons on one side of the rack and all knives on the other side of the rack, as is my way.

For the widest tablespoons, I slide the handles in over the middle part of the rack by maybe about an inch, which helps the spoon side clear the top.

As for deliberately recreating it, don't bother! However, if it happens again, see if there was something extra tall on the rack underneath it.
posted by wondermouse at 5:51 AM on November 3, 2021

Response by poster: Thanks everyone!

Relieved to know that the culprit is a plain ole design defect rather than malign spirits.
posted by lumpy at 3:38 PM on November 3, 2021