Who is the Velvet Underground of today?
October 21, 2021 2:34 PM Subscribe
I just watched the Velvet Underground documentary, which got me to thinking about which bands or solo artists hold the same place in 2020s culture that the Velvet Underground did to 1980s/90s college rock. Who are the artists and bands of the 1990s that are inspiring up-and-coming musicians?
I'm not thinking about bands that can be compared musically to the Velvets, but bands that have a similar influence over bands and artists today.
I'm not thinking about bands that can be compared musically to the Velvets, but bands that have a similar influence over bands and artists today.
Response by poster: Are Sonic Youth really that influential on up-and-coming bands? They definitely had a VU-like image when they were still together, but I can't think of any bands today that are trying to do what they did.
posted by pxe2000 at 3:10 PM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 3:10 PM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Rage Against the Machine, Tool, Alice in Chains
posted by iamkimiam at 3:14 PM on October 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by iamkimiam at 3:14 PM on October 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I think the Strokes have been the single most influential band of the 2000's. It seemed like a thousand garage/post-punky sounding indie rock bands bloomed after they broke out. The book Meet Me In The Bathroom captures this era of 2000-2010 NYC indie renaissance really well (Interpol, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Vampire Weekend, the Rapture, and the general NYC indie scene) and the Strokes sort of sit at the center of it all.
They have their own influences including VU, and they certainly weren't the only band doing what they were doing at the time, but they were marketing themselves best and most quickly and obviously successful with crossing over and going global. Not sure about their newest material, but I think they have pretty much achieved a kind of mythical godfather figure status of post 2000's indie rock resurgence and crossover to the mainstream.
posted by windbox at 3:30 PM on October 21, 2021 [9 favorites]
They have their own influences including VU, and they certainly weren't the only band doing what they were doing at the time, but they were marketing themselves best and most quickly and obviously successful with crossing over and going global. Not sure about their newest material, but I think they have pretty much achieved a kind of mythical godfather figure status of post 2000's indie rock resurgence and crossover to the mainstream.
posted by windbox at 3:30 PM on October 21, 2021 [9 favorites]
Best answer: I've noticed the elder Gen Z's are really into Amnesiac-and-older Radiohead these days. Also seeing young female artists dropping Liz Phair as influences. See Snail Mail
posted by greta simone at 3:31 PM on October 21, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by greta simone at 3:31 PM on October 21, 2021 [10 favorites]
I do a pretty fair amount of work at colleges. The older band that will make every single 18-25 year old jump up and down and sing along is, well . . . Journey.
So I'd put money on a big wave of sort of "commercial rock" bands in about 5 or 10 years - to the extent that it's not already here with bands like The Darkness.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:44 PM on October 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
So I'd put money on a big wave of sort of "commercial rock" bands in about 5 or 10 years - to the extent that it's not already here with bands like The Darkness.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:44 PM on October 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
my bloody valentine
portishead
+1 on the strokes
posted by fizzix at 3:51 PM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
portishead
+1 on the strokes
posted by fizzix at 3:51 PM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
the past ten years i hear so much music and go 'wow, this kinda sounds like stereolab'. which is funny because in the 90s there was no one else that sounded quite like stereolab.
posted by noloveforned at 4:03 PM on October 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by noloveforned at 4:03 PM on October 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
Pavement occupies this space well enough that noted zoomer musician beabadoobee released a single in 2019 called I Wish I was Stephen Malkmus.
posted by TurnKey at 4:54 PM on October 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by TurnKey at 4:54 PM on October 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
A little surprised not to hear Beck mentioned yet. Odelay was pretty huge in terms of integrating fairly grandiose dance-pop into the language of indie rock, and pop culture meta-references into “serious” popular music. Sea Change also kickstarted the indie folk idea. Maybe Beck was too big to be a Velvets-type touchstone, but I think the influence is there.
posted by kevinbelt at 5:18 PM on October 21, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 5:18 PM on October 21, 2021 [8 favorites]
Pixies. They pioneered the loud-soft-loud thing that was so common in the nineties and aughts.
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 5:21 PM on October 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 5:21 PM on October 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
not really the 90's but I hear a lot of influence from The Fall on the current crop of young U.K rock bands like Squid, Black Midi, and Black Country, New Road.
posted by SageLeVoid at 6:12 PM on October 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by SageLeVoid at 6:12 PM on October 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
Earth
Dylan Carson's band that every musician I know is obsessed with but not that well known outside of people into experimental or heavy music. Was friends with Kurt Cobain (infamously was the guy who gave him the gun) and released a bunch of legendary, genre-bending records in the early 90s then almost killed himself with drugs before re-emerging as some kind of hypnotic country-folk doom guitar wizard who's still putting out influential records.
+1 Fugazi & Sonic Youth
posted by bradbane at 8:47 PM on October 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
Dylan Carson's band that every musician I know is obsessed with but not that well known outside of people into experimental or heavy music. Was friends with Kurt Cobain (infamously was the guy who gave him the gun) and released a bunch of legendary, genre-bending records in the early 90s then almost killed himself with drugs before re-emerging as some kind of hypnotic country-folk doom guitar wizard who's still putting out influential records.
+1 Fugazi & Sonic Youth
posted by bradbane at 8:47 PM on October 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
Dinosaur Jr. Buffalo Tom. Counting Crows, Dave Mathews. Rollins Band? Body Count?
Most importantly Dinosaur Jr.
posted by vrakatar at 9:37 PM on October 21, 2021
Most importantly Dinosaur Jr.
posted by vrakatar at 9:37 PM on October 21, 2021
Definitely My Bloody Valentine and Slowdive. Shoegaze/dreampop-influenced music is way more popular now than it was in the 90s. By like a factor of ten.
posted by panama joe at 10:13 PM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by panama joe at 10:13 PM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
yes SageLeVois re The Fall, groups like Shame cite them as a major influence. Sex Pistols still have huge weight, widespread inspiration.
posted by unearthed at 11:27 PM on October 21, 2021
posted by unearthed at 11:27 PM on October 21, 2021
which is funny because in the 90s there was no one else that sounded quite like stereolab.
I actually got up from bed to say Neu!
ok carry on
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:35 PM on October 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
I actually got up from bed to say Neu!
ok carry on
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:35 PM on October 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
For female musicians, P. J. Harvey and Björk are important influences.
I’ve also noticed Belle and Sebastian cropping up, like in this interview with Chicago band Horsegirl, who also mention Kim Gordon, Yo La Tengo and My Bloody Valentine. And in this interview they talk about Sterolab.
posted by Kattullus at 2:27 AM on October 22, 2021
I’ve also noticed Belle and Sebastian cropping up, like in this interview with Chicago band Horsegirl, who also mention Kim Gordon, Yo La Tengo and My Bloody Valentine. And in this interview they talk about Sterolab.
posted by Kattullus at 2:27 AM on October 22, 2021
It’s been said about the Velvet Underground that they didn’t sell many records, but everyone who bought one went out and started a band. In that vein, I’d like to nominate Beat Happening. Though not that well known in comparison, many of their contemporaries already on this list like Fugazi and Sonic Youth have cited Beat Happening as an influence, and Kurt Cobain had a K Records tattoo.
K Records is the label of Beat Happening vocalist, Calvin Johnson, and is still actively putting out indie music. I hear the Beat Happening’s influence on bands like Dehd and lots of other lo-fi indie. Mac DeMarco and Shamir put out a release of Beat Happening covers.
posted by Leontine at 6:23 AM on October 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
K Records is the label of Beat Happening vocalist, Calvin Johnson, and is still actively putting out indie music. I hear the Beat Happening’s influence on bands like Dehd and lots of other lo-fi indie. Mac DeMarco and Shamir put out a release of Beat Happening covers.
posted by Leontine at 6:23 AM on October 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Public Enemy.
posted by bile and syntax at 8:36 AM on October 22, 2021
posted by bile and syntax at 8:36 AM on October 22, 2021
Arthur Russell
posted by rocketman at 9:26 AM on October 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by rocketman at 9:26 AM on October 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
Elliott Smith.
In this NPR interview, Phoebe Bridgers calls Elliott Smith her Beatles (not VU) but I think that the influence she's describing meets the criteria for the question.
From the article:
" But throughout the aughts, as the Internet brought once-underground veins of emo and indie rock bubbling into the mainstream, Smith's finely crafted, exquisitely melancholy melodies seemed to become manifest in the music of a new generation of musicians. I can hear him in both the quietest and most bombastic recordings of Sufjan Stevens, the yelping, baroque arrangements of Arcade Fire, the soulful six-string confessionals of Julien Baker, and even, perhaps subliminally, in the artfully macabre whispers of Billie Eilish — who, this year, played her own version of the feted but somewhat uncomfortable outsider at the Oscars. To Bridgers, though, Smith's music is something more than an influence: It's absolutely foundational."
Also, Fleet Foxes calls out Elliott Smith (and many other influences) in "Sunblind" and, well, there must be dozens of more examples of Elliott's influence.
posted by cholstro at 9:36 AM on October 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
In this NPR interview, Phoebe Bridgers calls Elliott Smith her Beatles (not VU) but I think that the influence she's describing meets the criteria for the question.
From the article:
" But throughout the aughts, as the Internet brought once-underground veins of emo and indie rock bubbling into the mainstream, Smith's finely crafted, exquisitely melancholy melodies seemed to become manifest in the music of a new generation of musicians. I can hear him in both the quietest and most bombastic recordings of Sufjan Stevens, the yelping, baroque arrangements of Arcade Fire, the soulful six-string confessionals of Julien Baker, and even, perhaps subliminally, in the artfully macabre whispers of Billie Eilish — who, this year, played her own version of the feted but somewhat uncomfortable outsider at the Oscars. To Bridgers, though, Smith's music is something more than an influence: It's absolutely foundational."
Also, Fleet Foxes calls out Elliott Smith (and many other influences) in "Sunblind" and, well, there must be dozens of more examples of Elliott's influence.
posted by cholstro at 9:36 AM on October 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
Perhaps niche, but: Autechre , LFO, and Aphex Twin.
posted by niicholas at 10:13 AM on October 22, 2021
posted by niicholas at 10:13 AM on October 22, 2021
Enya. I think there was a post on her influence here in the past year or so Edit:here it is
posted by atlantica at 10:29 AM on October 22, 2021
posted by atlantica at 10:29 AM on October 22, 2021
Seconding Fugazi, Dinosaur Jr and Pixies as titans of the time period, but also adding Melvins, who are supreme influences in the slow / stoner metal scene. And slightly later, Sleep and Sunn O))).
posted by intermod at 2:12 PM on October 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by intermod at 2:12 PM on October 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Are Sonic Youth really that influential on up-and-coming bands?
I guess it depends on how you define up and coming, but here’s Snail Mail’s Lindsey Jordan on how Incinerate inspired her.
Parquet Court performing with Lee Ranaldo
Ganser
Ohmme
Arguably, Billy Nomates
posted by chrisulonic at 2:19 PM on October 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
I guess it depends on how you define up and coming, but here’s Snail Mail’s Lindsey Jordan on how Incinerate inspired her.
Parquet Court performing with Lee Ranaldo
Ganser
Ohmme
Arguably, Billy Nomates
posted by chrisulonic at 2:19 PM on October 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
In my opinion, it's someone more on the popular but rock section from the mid 1980s, ie: INXS or The Smiths or New Order, in that they feature jangly guitars, are cool with keyboards and synths, programmed drums, and albums don't sound particularly similar to one another.
Recent records by big sellers like Kings of Leon, The Killers, Vampire Weekend, Post Malone, and even Maroon 5 are heavily influenced by them.
Then in the pop front, Korn and rap. Like Imagine Dragons is Korn if they listened to more pop and far less metal.
I'd also say Tom Petty. Tom Petty's regular rock is what country music is today, with some extra fiddle and steel guitar. And outlaw country is even more similar to Petty than Willie or Waylon or whomever.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:42 PM on October 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Recent records by big sellers like Kings of Leon, The Killers, Vampire Weekend, Post Malone, and even Maroon 5 are heavily influenced by them.
Then in the pop front, Korn and rap. Like Imagine Dragons is Korn if they listened to more pop and far less metal.
I'd also say Tom Petty. Tom Petty's regular rock is what country music is today, with some extra fiddle and steel guitar. And outlaw country is even more similar to Petty than Willie or Waylon or whomever.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:42 PM on October 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
There's nothing really quite comparable to The Velvet Underground, in terms of a cult artist/band with a radically different original sound leading to a widely dispersed influence years later. Most of the examples mentioned above are just talented artists making variations on previously explored concepts.
Closest thing I can think of is Massive Attack. Not a perfect example, but they were fairly different from everything that came before, and influenced a lot of sound production afterwards.
posted by ovvl at 8:32 PM on October 22, 2021
Closest thing I can think of is Massive Attack. Not a perfect example, but they were fairly different from everything that came before, and influenced a lot of sound production afterwards.
posted by ovvl at 8:32 PM on October 22, 2021
On the singer/songwriter side of things, there is a lot of Taylor Swift influence on a lot of the young indie-side artists today.
posted by urbanlenny at 7:47 PM on October 23, 2021
posted by urbanlenny at 7:47 PM on October 23, 2021
Oops, sorry, I totally missed the 90s aspect of things and to that I'd say Letters to Cleo and Veruca Salt. You see a lot of their influence in the Bubble Grunge-esque scene and adjacent, mostly in female fronted bands with poppy female vocals backed by grunge-y, garage-y instrumentation, like Charly Bliss, Diet Cig, Best Coast, Beach Bunny, etc.
posted by urbanlenny at 7:52 PM on October 23, 2021
posted by urbanlenny at 7:52 PM on October 23, 2021
I was going to link to Pitchfork's recent reader poll of the 200 best albums of the last 25 years, but I accidentally came across their previous poll from 2011 first (covering the last 15 years that time). Then I realized comparing the two would be a great way to find which albums have had the most staying power.
I dropped both lists into a spreadsheet, cleaned them up, and sorted them alphabetically. Then I eliminated the ones that appeared only on the 2021 list (too new) or only on the 2011 list (loved then, not so much now). There were still over 100 on both lists, so I nixed the ones that had fallen more than 50 slots since 2011. Lastly, I added back in ones removed for being 2021-only if they were from 2011 or earlier (i.e., older albums that have found new appreciation 10+ years after release).
So without further ado, here are all 88 pre-2011 albums that remain popular in 2021. Older ones new to the 2021 list are marked with a star, ones that grew more popular over time are in bold (with the rank change in parentheses). Numbering is kind of a kludge; just averaged the two rankings and rounded to avoid ties:
1. RADIOHEAD - Kid A (2 → 1)
2. RADIOHEAD - OK Computer
4. RADIOHEAD - In Rainbows (6 → 4)
5. ARCADE FIRE - Funeral
6. KANYE WEST - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy (9 → 3)
7. THE STROKES - Is This It
8. NEUTRAL MILK HOTEL - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea
9. WILCO - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
11. SUFJAN STEVENS - Illinois
13. LCD SOUNDSYSTEM - Sound of Silver
14. ANIMAL COLLECTIVE - Merriweather Post Pavilion
17. INTERPOL - Turn On the Bright Lights
19. ARCADE FIRE - The Suburbs
20. BON IVER - For Emma, Forever Ago
24. THE FLAMING LIPS - The Soft Bulletin
27. DAFT PUNK - Discovery
28. FLEET FOXES - Fleet Foxes
29. MADVILLAIN - Madvillainy (42 → 16)
30. THE NATIONAL - Boxer
31. BON IVER - Bon Iver
32. BEACH HOUSE - Teen Dream (32 → 31)
35. LCD SOUNDSYSTEM - This Is Happening
38. BJÖRK - Homogenic (51 → 26)
39. ELLIOTT SMITH - Either/Or
40. THE AVALANCHES - Since I Left You (46 → 32)
41. MODEST MOUSE - The Moon & Antarctica
42. OUTKAST - Stankonia
43. BELLE AND SEBASTIAN - If You're Feeling Sinister
45. KANYE WEST - The College Dropout
*46. AMY WINEHOUSE - Back to Black
47. DJ SHADOW - Endtroducing...
48. MODEST MOUSE - The Lonesome Crowded West
49. VAMPIRE WEEKEND - Vampire Weekend
*50. LAURYN HILL - The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill
51. SIGUR RÓS - Ágætis byrjun
53. KANYE WEST - Late Registration (58 → 48)
54. BURIAL - Untrue (60 → 47)
55. THE NATIONAL - High Violet
60. DEERHUNTER - Halcyon Digest (63 → 58)
61. OUTKAST - Aquemini (84 → 38)
64. BOARDS OF CANADA - Music Has the Right to Children
65. MASSIVE ATTACK - Mezzanine
66. PANDA BEAR - Person Pitch
67. ARCTIC MONKEYS - Whatever People Say I Am, That's What I'm Not
75. FLEET FOXES - Helplessness Blues (82 → 75)
79. YO LA TENGO - I Can Hear the Heart Beating as One
80. DESTROYER - Kaputt (115 → 80)
82. PORTISHEAD - Third
83. QUEENS OF THE STONE AGE - Songs for the Deaf
85. JAY-Z - The Blueprint
88. BJÖRK - Vespertine (136 → 41)
91. THE KNIFE - Silent Shout
92. JOANNA NEWSOM - Ys (101 → 44)
96. WEEZER - Pinkerton (118 → 74)
97. J DILLA - Donuts (112 → 82)
98. THE MICROPHONES - The Glow, Pt. 2 (100 → 96)
*99. FIONA APPLE - When the Pawn...
106. M.I.A. - Kala
*107. GORILLAZ - Demon Days
108. KANYE WEST - Graduation
*112. CAR SEAT HEADREST - Twin Fantasy
118. PJ HARVEY - Stories From the City, Stories From the Sea (125 → 111)
123. BUILT TO SPILL - Perfect From Now On
124. D'ANGELO - Voodoo (161 → 86)
125. GODSPEED YOU! BLACK EMPEROR - Lift Your Skinny Fists like Antennas to Heaven (189 → 59)
126. JOANNA NEWSOM - Have One on Me (169 → 84)
127. GORILLAZ - Plastic Beach (139 → 117)
128. ST. VINCENT - Strange Mercy
131. PJ HARVEY - Let England Shake (140 → 123)
133. EMINEM - The Marshall Mathers LP
134. ROBYN - Body Talk (176 → 93)
137. SILVER JEWS - American Water (156 → 118)
*140. BRIGHT EYES - I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning / Digital Ash in a Digital Urn
141. SUFJAN STEVENS - The Age of Adz
149. YO LA TENGO - And Then Nothing Turned Itself Inside-Out
150. TITUS ANDRONICUS - The Monitor
155. KANYE WEST - 808s and Heartbreak (181 → 130)
*157. DEATH CAB FOR CUTIE - Transatlanticism
*167. MADONNA - Ray of Light
*170. SLEATER-KINNEY - The Woods
*173. DEFTONES - White Pony
*178. LADY GAGA - The Fame Monster
180. DRAKE - Take Care (199 → 161)
182. JANELLE MONÁE - The ArchAndroid
*185. GODSPEED YOU! BLACK EMPEROR - F♯ A♯ ∞
*186. BOB DYLAN - Time Out of Mind
*190. MF DOOM - Mm..Food?
*200. ERYKAH BADU - Mama's Gun
Only two artists here had more than two albums: Kanye West with 5 and Radiohead with 3. And lastly, here are all artists with two or more entries by average ranking:
3. Radiohead (3 albums)
12. Arcade Fire (2 albums)
24. LCD Soundsystem (2 albums)
25. Bon Iver (2 albums)
42. The National (2 albums)
43. Modest Mouse (2 albums)
50. Outkast (2 albums)
52. Fleet Foxes (2 albums)
63. Björk (2 albums)
74. Kanye West (5 albums)
76. Sufjan Stevens (2 albums)
109. Joanna Newsom (2 albums)
114. Yo La Tengo (2 albums)
117. Gorillaz (2 albums)
125. PJ Harvey (2 albums)
154. Godspeed You! Black Emperor (2 albums)
posted by Rhaomi at 12:00 PM on October 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
I dropped both lists into a spreadsheet, cleaned them up, and sorted them alphabetically. Then I eliminated the ones that appeared only on the 2021 list (too new) or only on the 2011 list (loved then, not so much now). There were still over 100 on both lists, so I nixed the ones that had fallen more than 50 slots since 2011. Lastly, I added back in ones removed for being 2021-only if they were from 2011 or earlier (i.e., older albums that have found new appreciation 10+ years after release).
So without further ado, here are all 88 pre-2011 albums that remain popular in 2021. Older ones new to the 2021 list are marked with a star, ones that grew more popular over time are in bold (with the rank change in parentheses). Numbering is kind of a kludge; just averaged the two rankings and rounded to avoid ties:
1. RADIOHEAD - Kid A (2 → 1)
2. RADIOHEAD - OK Computer
4. RADIOHEAD - In Rainbows (6 → 4)
5. ARCADE FIRE - Funeral
6. KANYE WEST - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy (9 → 3)
7. THE STROKES - Is This It
8. NEUTRAL MILK HOTEL - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea
9. WILCO - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
11. SUFJAN STEVENS - Illinois
13. LCD SOUNDSYSTEM - Sound of Silver
14. ANIMAL COLLECTIVE - Merriweather Post Pavilion
17. INTERPOL - Turn On the Bright Lights
19. ARCADE FIRE - The Suburbs
20. BON IVER - For Emma, Forever Ago
24. THE FLAMING LIPS - The Soft Bulletin
27. DAFT PUNK - Discovery
28. FLEET FOXES - Fleet Foxes
29. MADVILLAIN - Madvillainy (42 → 16)
30. THE NATIONAL - Boxer
31. BON IVER - Bon Iver
32. BEACH HOUSE - Teen Dream (32 → 31)
35. LCD SOUNDSYSTEM - This Is Happening
38. BJÖRK - Homogenic (51 → 26)
39. ELLIOTT SMITH - Either/Or
40. THE AVALANCHES - Since I Left You (46 → 32)
41. MODEST MOUSE - The Moon & Antarctica
42. OUTKAST - Stankonia
43. BELLE AND SEBASTIAN - If You're Feeling Sinister
45. KANYE WEST - The College Dropout
*46. AMY WINEHOUSE - Back to Black
47. DJ SHADOW - Endtroducing...
48. MODEST MOUSE - The Lonesome Crowded West
49. VAMPIRE WEEKEND - Vampire Weekend
*50. LAURYN HILL - The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill
51. SIGUR RÓS - Ágætis byrjun
53. KANYE WEST - Late Registration (58 → 48)
54. BURIAL - Untrue (60 → 47)
55. THE NATIONAL - High Violet
60. DEERHUNTER - Halcyon Digest (63 → 58)
61. OUTKAST - Aquemini (84 → 38)
64. BOARDS OF CANADA - Music Has the Right to Children
65. MASSIVE ATTACK - Mezzanine
66. PANDA BEAR - Person Pitch
67. ARCTIC MONKEYS - Whatever People Say I Am, That's What I'm Not
75. FLEET FOXES - Helplessness Blues (82 → 75)
79. YO LA TENGO - I Can Hear the Heart Beating as One
80. DESTROYER - Kaputt (115 → 80)
82. PORTISHEAD - Third
83. QUEENS OF THE STONE AGE - Songs for the Deaf
85. JAY-Z - The Blueprint
88. BJÖRK - Vespertine (136 → 41)
91. THE KNIFE - Silent Shout
92. JOANNA NEWSOM - Ys (101 → 44)
96. WEEZER - Pinkerton (118 → 74)
97. J DILLA - Donuts (112 → 82)
98. THE MICROPHONES - The Glow, Pt. 2 (100 → 96)
*99. FIONA APPLE - When the Pawn...
106. M.I.A. - Kala
*107. GORILLAZ - Demon Days
108. KANYE WEST - Graduation
*112. CAR SEAT HEADREST - Twin Fantasy
118. PJ HARVEY - Stories From the City, Stories From the Sea (125 → 111)
123. BUILT TO SPILL - Perfect From Now On
124. D'ANGELO - Voodoo (161 → 86)
125. GODSPEED YOU! BLACK EMPEROR - Lift Your Skinny Fists like Antennas to Heaven (189 → 59)
126. JOANNA NEWSOM - Have One on Me (169 → 84)
127. GORILLAZ - Plastic Beach (139 → 117)
128. ST. VINCENT - Strange Mercy
131. PJ HARVEY - Let England Shake (140 → 123)
133. EMINEM - The Marshall Mathers LP
134. ROBYN - Body Talk (176 → 93)
137. SILVER JEWS - American Water (156 → 118)
*140. BRIGHT EYES - I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning / Digital Ash in a Digital Urn
141. SUFJAN STEVENS - The Age of Adz
149. YO LA TENGO - And Then Nothing Turned Itself Inside-Out
150. TITUS ANDRONICUS - The Monitor
155. KANYE WEST - 808s and Heartbreak (181 → 130)
*157. DEATH CAB FOR CUTIE - Transatlanticism
*167. MADONNA - Ray of Light
*170. SLEATER-KINNEY - The Woods
*173. DEFTONES - White Pony
*178. LADY GAGA - The Fame Monster
180. DRAKE - Take Care (199 → 161)
182. JANELLE MONÁE - The ArchAndroid
*185. GODSPEED YOU! BLACK EMPEROR - F♯ A♯ ∞
*186. BOB DYLAN - Time Out of Mind
*190. MF DOOM - Mm..Food?
*200. ERYKAH BADU - Mama's Gun
Only two artists here had more than two albums: Kanye West with 5 and Radiohead with 3. And lastly, here are all artists with two or more entries by average ranking:
3. Radiohead (3 albums)
12. Arcade Fire (2 albums)
24. LCD Soundsystem (2 albums)
25. Bon Iver (2 albums)
42. The National (2 albums)
43. Modest Mouse (2 albums)
50. Outkast (2 albums)
52. Fleet Foxes (2 albums)
63. Björk (2 albums)
74. Kanye West (5 albums)
76. Sufjan Stevens (2 albums)
109. Joanna Newsom (2 albums)
114. Yo La Tengo (2 albums)
117. Gorillaz (2 albums)
125. PJ Harvey (2 albums)
154. Godspeed You! Black Emperor (2 albums)
posted by Rhaomi at 12:00 PM on October 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
I thought about this some more, and I do feel like a lot of the answers (Sonic Youth, the Strokes) are artsy New York guitar rock. And like, I definitely see the Strokes as a big influence on subsequent guitar music, but also, the fact that guitar rock is probably at its 50-year nadir at the moment can't be ignored. So I tried thinking a little more about the Velvets and what made them what they were. The thing that stood out to me is that at the time they formed, rock and roll was still pretty immature. Like, the Beatles and Stones were big by that time and Brian Wilson was getting more interesting, but rock/pop was still pretty formulaic, and so there was a lot of space for a band to come along and be experimental. I don't think the influence of the Velvets was really all that musical - for someone who had never heard them to listen to them today, they would sound a little underwhelming and maybe even boring - but rather in terms of mindset, the idea that you weren't limited to formulaic guitar-bass-drums verse-chorus-verse love-song pop rock formulas.
I don't know if that sort of thing is possible in rock music anymore. The 80s and 90s underground scene, as well as prog-metal, post-rock, and some other niche genres, pushed the boundaries of rock music so much further than the Velvets did that it's hard for me, as a fan of underground rock music, to imagine much that hasn't already been done. There just isn't that space for someone to be as experimental as the Velvets were, and to the extent that there are undeniably still a lot of experimental bands, they're not anywhere near as widely influential.
That made me think about other genres, and there's one really obvious answer that stands out in terms of being extremely popular today but not having reached full artistic maturity by the mid 90s, and that's hip hop. And sure enough, if you look at hip hop in the 90s, there were a lot of underground artists pushing the boundaries of what hip hop could be, and exerting a clear influence on today's hip hop. I'm thinking of people like J Dilla, Talib Kweli, De La Soul, etc. Loosely, the Native Tongues stuff at the beginning of the 90s, and the Soulquarians stuff at the end. The whole line about the Velvet Underground was that not many people heard their music, but everyone who did formed a band, and I think the same thing applies here: Not many people heard J Dilla in the 90s, but I bet a lot of people who did bought samplers and drum machines or starting writing rhymes. And you hear that influence today, even on stuff that wouldn't seem to be overtly influenced by him. That sound has become a part of hip hop, not least via Kanye.
There are a couple of other genres that fit the same criteria. Teenybopper pop is one. It had existed forever, but starting in the late 90s, Max Martin really refined it and made it something different than it had been before. A lot of the songwriting and production techniques that Max Martin and Denniz Pop pioneered in the 90s are now industry standard. The other is electronica. I don't know enough about electronica to say who the Velvet Underground of electronica are; maybe Daft Punk? Is that too obvious? But I'm willing to bet there is a Velvet Underground of electronica.
posted by kevinbelt at 10:25 AM on October 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
I don't know if that sort of thing is possible in rock music anymore. The 80s and 90s underground scene, as well as prog-metal, post-rock, and some other niche genres, pushed the boundaries of rock music so much further than the Velvets did that it's hard for me, as a fan of underground rock music, to imagine much that hasn't already been done. There just isn't that space for someone to be as experimental as the Velvets were, and to the extent that there are undeniably still a lot of experimental bands, they're not anywhere near as widely influential.
That made me think about other genres, and there's one really obvious answer that stands out in terms of being extremely popular today but not having reached full artistic maturity by the mid 90s, and that's hip hop. And sure enough, if you look at hip hop in the 90s, there were a lot of underground artists pushing the boundaries of what hip hop could be, and exerting a clear influence on today's hip hop. I'm thinking of people like J Dilla, Talib Kweli, De La Soul, etc. Loosely, the Native Tongues stuff at the beginning of the 90s, and the Soulquarians stuff at the end. The whole line about the Velvet Underground was that not many people heard their music, but everyone who did formed a band, and I think the same thing applies here: Not many people heard J Dilla in the 90s, but I bet a lot of people who did bought samplers and drum machines or starting writing rhymes. And you hear that influence today, even on stuff that wouldn't seem to be overtly influenced by him. That sound has become a part of hip hop, not least via Kanye.
There are a couple of other genres that fit the same criteria. Teenybopper pop is one. It had existed forever, but starting in the late 90s, Max Martin really refined it and made it something different than it had been before. A lot of the songwriting and production techniques that Max Martin and Denniz Pop pioneered in the 90s are now industry standard. The other is electronica. I don't know enough about electronica to say who the Velvet Underground of electronica are; maybe Daft Punk? Is that too obvious? But I'm willing to bet there is a Velvet Underground of electronica.
posted by kevinbelt at 10:25 AM on October 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
One thing that made The Velvet Underground the Velvet Underground, and differentiated them from bands which could’ve had the same kind of legacy (e.g. Love), is that Lou Reed was a star for decades after he left The Velvet Underground.
Lots of people were obsessive fans of Lou Reed, and they made it feasible to keep the Velvet Underground records in print, which then made them available to people who went looking for them without being Lou Reed fans first.
Of course, what with Spotify, YouTube and all that, it’s difficult to imagine a band’s music being really hard to find, which wasn’t the case at all prior to ubiquitous streaming. Back in the 90s and early 2000s I would sometimes spend years looking for not-that-obscure records (e.g. Beat Happening’s Jamboree) before finding it.
People have a lot more choice now, but that also makes it less likely that bands acquire the kind of mythic status The Velvet Underground attained.
posted by Kattullus at 2:06 PM on October 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
Lots of people were obsessive fans of Lou Reed, and they made it feasible to keep the Velvet Underground records in print, which then made them available to people who went looking for them without being Lou Reed fans first.
Of course, what with Spotify, YouTube and all that, it’s difficult to imagine a band’s music being really hard to find, which wasn’t the case at all prior to ubiquitous streaming. Back in the 90s and early 2000s I would sometimes spend years looking for not-that-obscure records (e.g. Beat Happening’s Jamboree) before finding it.
People have a lot more choice now, but that also makes it less likely that bands acquire the kind of mythic status The Velvet Underground attained.
posted by Kattullus at 2:06 PM on October 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
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posted by chrisulonic at 3:01 PM on October 21, 2021 [7 favorites]