Ignoring an abusive work situation
October 15, 2021 10:06 AM Subscribe
I need some outside perspective on whether I can stick around in this work situation. I'm hoping I can...
I've been at my current job for about a year. There are certain things that work well for me right now due to the pandemic: very high salary with 100% benefits covered, easy work, minimal workload, no overtime and really good hours, permanent work-from-home, impossible to be fired. Due to the pandemic and my family situation, this is the best possible situation I could ask for right now.
There are certain things that aren't awesome, but I manage: some really miserable colleagues, no training program, random and shifting expectations coupled with "how could you not know this!!!" and periodic attempts at degradation and shouting from my boss.
And then there is something that is a red flag to me: my boss just pulled a maneuver on me yesterday that I found alarming. After asking me to 'meet' out of nowhere, proceeded to yell at me (as they do) then make me sit and watch them edit a document over my lunch hour (as sometimes happens) - this actually is pretty bearable to me - but then proceeded to love-bomb me for the rest of the day. I got accolades over chat and in front of colleagues on what an amazing job I was doing, how my team is great and I'm an awesome manager. Though this should have struck me as good - boss was mad, saw I was doing good work and backtracked - it actually struck me as bad - shouting and degradation followed by love-bombing is typical red-flag abuser behavior.
Since gas-lighting is a strong abuser tactic, assume that this is what happened and I am reliable reporter on this. Please don't suggest I'm misinterpreting what happened. I was there, I saw it, I identified it, I was alarmed.
Normally I might have a chat with my boss to lay down some expectations and boundaries, but trust me that this is not effective with my boss and won't really get us anywhere.
We work remotely which gives me more ability to be "less available" and ignore or mute my boss if needed when they go on a tirade. I recognize that I am in an abusive situation, but I'm wondering if I can ignore it since there is no real impact on me - I can't be fired or demoted.
Is there a way I can stick this out and just ignore them, or is it something that will eventually wear me down and I should start looking for new work. Have you managed to ignore an abuser at work when their abuse had no real impact on your job success? How did you do it?
I've been at my current job for about a year. There are certain things that work well for me right now due to the pandemic: very high salary with 100% benefits covered, easy work, minimal workload, no overtime and really good hours, permanent work-from-home, impossible to be fired. Due to the pandemic and my family situation, this is the best possible situation I could ask for right now.
There are certain things that aren't awesome, but I manage: some really miserable colleagues, no training program, random and shifting expectations coupled with "how could you not know this!!!" and periodic attempts at degradation and shouting from my boss.
And then there is something that is a red flag to me: my boss just pulled a maneuver on me yesterday that I found alarming. After asking me to 'meet' out of nowhere, proceeded to yell at me (as they do) then make me sit and watch them edit a document over my lunch hour (as sometimes happens) - this actually is pretty bearable to me - but then proceeded to love-bomb me for the rest of the day. I got accolades over chat and in front of colleagues on what an amazing job I was doing, how my team is great and I'm an awesome manager. Though this should have struck me as good - boss was mad, saw I was doing good work and backtracked - it actually struck me as bad - shouting and degradation followed by love-bombing is typical red-flag abuser behavior.
Since gas-lighting is a strong abuser tactic, assume that this is what happened and I am reliable reporter on this. Please don't suggest I'm misinterpreting what happened. I was there, I saw it, I identified it, I was alarmed.
Normally I might have a chat with my boss to lay down some expectations and boundaries, but trust me that this is not effective with my boss and won't really get us anywhere.
We work remotely which gives me more ability to be "less available" and ignore or mute my boss if needed when they go on a tirade. I recognize that I am in an abusive situation, but I'm wondering if I can ignore it since there is no real impact on me - I can't be fired or demoted.
Is there a way I can stick this out and just ignore them, or is it something that will eventually wear me down and I should start looking for new work. Have you managed to ignore an abuser at work when their abuse had no real impact on your job success? How did you do it?
I think the only way to get through this without too much psychological damage is if you have an end in sight. If you give yourself a year before you quit, that might work. But if you're in that abusive situation for the long haul with no end in sight - there's no one who's strong enough to not get fucked up.
posted by Omnomnom at 10:14 AM on October 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Omnomnom at 10:14 AM on October 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Even if you are strong enough to deal with the bullying, there will come a day that boss turns against you completely, gaslight you, and fire you. Unless you are skilled in the art of office politics and change the progression, it'll mess you up eventually.
And even in that case, the stress will eventually get to you.
posted by wierdo at 10:28 AM on October 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
And even in that case, the stress will eventually get to you.
posted by wierdo at 10:28 AM on October 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Wow, you described my boss. Here's how it worked out for me. TL;DR: get out ASAP.
I've known my boss has these tendencies for a couple years.
This year, I decided I was going to find a new job, when suddenly my boss threatened to fire me out of the blue, despite consistently giving me the highest employee evaluations in the past. Oh boy, I thought, now my references are going to be poisoned if/when I try to get a new job, so I should stick around for a couple of months to fix this.
So I did, and not only was it "fixed", my boss finally figured out that the issues he noticed were due to the job market and not my performance.*
BUT: I have spent so much mental energy on dealing with my boss' nonsense that it has worn me down. I'm going to need to take some time off of the workforce in general, b/c I am too burnt out and psychologically battered from dealing with him to be able to work well in a new job. My general feelings are, "are there even good workplaces out there? am I even good enough?" My logical brain knows that there are good workplaces and I'm extremely good at my job, but dealing with the abuse has still worn me down enough that it's hard for my heart to believe those things.
The thing I figured out in therapy is: it's not enough to know that a situation is shitty. It's not enough to know your boss' patterns. Knowing those things does not protect you from the impact of the abuse. You are still subject to the psychological damage, even though your logical brain knows this is a stupid game.
*Also my boss found something else to be mad about, because it's not actually about my performance, it's about his nonsense.
posted by quartz at 10:29 AM on October 15, 2021 [17 favorites]
I've known my boss has these tendencies for a couple years.
This year, I decided I was going to find a new job, when suddenly my boss threatened to fire me out of the blue, despite consistently giving me the highest employee evaluations in the past. Oh boy, I thought, now my references are going to be poisoned if/when I try to get a new job, so I should stick around for a couple of months to fix this.
So I did, and not only was it "fixed", my boss finally figured out that the issues he noticed were due to the job market and not my performance.*
BUT: I have spent so much mental energy on dealing with my boss' nonsense that it has worn me down. I'm going to need to take some time off of the workforce in general, b/c I am too burnt out and psychologically battered from dealing with him to be able to work well in a new job. My general feelings are, "are there even good workplaces out there? am I even good enough?" My logical brain knows that there are good workplaces and I'm extremely good at my job, but dealing with the abuse has still worn me down enough that it's hard for my heart to believe those things.
The thing I figured out in therapy is: it's not enough to know that a situation is shitty. It's not enough to know your boss' patterns. Knowing those things does not protect you from the impact of the abuse. You are still subject to the psychological damage, even though your logical brain knows this is a stupid game.
*Also my boss found something else to be mad about, because it's not actually about my performance, it's about his nonsense.
posted by quartz at 10:29 AM on October 15, 2021 [17 favorites]
I had a somewhat toxic coworker (so, I wasn't subordinate to them), and even once that person was gone I never really felt comfortable at that job. There were definitely other factors (at the job and outside) that lead me to leave, but it definitely played a role. So I think it'd be hard to just shrug it off.
What do you mean that you can't be fired, though? I think if you have any chance of making it work, walking away as soon as they start yelling and refusing to give up your lunch may give you enough of a sense of control to make it tolerable (with all the other positives). If you truly cannot be fired, don't tolerate any poor behavior and gray rock love bombing. You don't have to storm off in a huff, just get up and walk away. Walk away even if they're yelling at something/someone else.
I'd still job hunt, but maybe it'll keep you sane enough to wait for something you like/want/pays as well.
posted by ghost phoneme at 10:36 AM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
What do you mean that you can't be fired, though? I think if you have any chance of making it work, walking away as soon as they start yelling and refusing to give up your lunch may give you enough of a sense of control to make it tolerable (with all the other positives). If you truly cannot be fired, don't tolerate any poor behavior and gray rock love bombing. You don't have to storm off in a huff, just get up and walk away. Walk away even if they're yelling at something/someone else.
I'd still job hunt, but maybe it'll keep you sane enough to wait for something you like/want/pays as well.
posted by ghost phoneme at 10:36 AM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
They get off on the power. If they get bored, they'll just fire you or keep trying to make your life hell until you quit in increasingly weird ways. They don't live in a reality you'd recognize, I feel very confident in that.
Though if you ignore their abusive attempts long enough, at least with animals, there's an extinction event where they realize they won't get the feedback they desire and move on. Since your boss sounds less emotionally intelligent than like... any dog or cat... it may play out that way too!
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 10:37 AM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Though if you ignore their abusive attempts long enough, at least with animals, there's an extinction event where they realize they won't get the feedback they desire and move on. Since your boss sounds less emotionally intelligent than like... any dog or cat... it may play out that way too!
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 10:37 AM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Based on my own experience, the longer you stay in this situation the more emotional damage you will incur. And it will likely take longer to get over that damage than the time you spend in the job.
I agree with the advice to get out as quickly as you can.
posted by Lexica at 10:41 AM on October 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
I agree with the advice to get out as quickly as you can.
posted by Lexica at 10:41 AM on October 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
I recognize that I am in an abusive situation, but I'm wondering if I can ignore it since there is no real impact on me - I can't be fired or demoted.
Yes, you can ignore this.
I'm not going to debate whether this is "abuse" or not. Behavior that results in a net positive for you (by your own words: "the best possible situation I could ask for right now") and is reasonably tolerable (by your own words: "pretty bearable to me") is about the best that you can expect from an employer. You're in a situation that many people (including me!) would love to be in. Take advantage of it.
Your daily mantra should be: "I'm getting paid, I'm not being harmed, and I can't be fired." If that's not enough, ask yourself the question, "is getting paid less, having to do more work, having a higher chance of being fired, and not being able to work from home worth doing something else?" Frankly, nothing in your post has indicated to me the answer to that question is "yes" - or anywhere near "yes."
posted by saeculorum at 10:42 AM on October 15, 2021 [19 favorites]
Yes, you can ignore this.
I'm not going to debate whether this is "abuse" or not. Behavior that results in a net positive for you (by your own words: "the best possible situation I could ask for right now") and is reasonably tolerable (by your own words: "pretty bearable to me") is about the best that you can expect from an employer. You're in a situation that many people (including me!) would love to be in. Take advantage of it.
Your daily mantra should be: "I'm getting paid, I'm not being harmed, and I can't be fired." If that's not enough, ask yourself the question, "is getting paid less, having to do more work, having a higher chance of being fired, and not being able to work from home worth doing something else?" Frankly, nothing in your post has indicated to me the answer to that question is "yes" - or anywhere near "yes."
posted by saeculorum at 10:42 AM on October 15, 2021 [19 favorites]
very high salary with 100% benefits covered, easy work, minimal workload, no overtime and really good hours, permanent work-from-home, impossible to be fired
Remember that line from the woman protagonist in Labyrinth, which breaks the spell and gets her out of the weird fantasy-world? "YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER ME." If your boss can't fire or demote you or force you to work overtime, it sounds to me like your boss is a "boss" in name only.
posted by heatherlogan at 11:00 AM on October 15, 2021 [13 favorites]
Remember that line from the woman protagonist in Labyrinth, which breaks the spell and gets her out of the weird fantasy-world? "YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER ME." If your boss can't fire or demote you or force you to work overtime, it sounds to me like your boss is a "boss" in name only.
posted by heatherlogan at 11:00 AM on October 15, 2021 [13 favorites]
Speaking from experience, in a year or so you can expect to be fully burned out/checked out of your job and for that matter most of your life. But you won't bother finding another job because you won't be able to even imagine what a decent job would actually look like anymore.
Just because it doesn't leave bruises doesn't mean it isn't harm.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:00 AM on October 15, 2021 [20 favorites]
Just because it doesn't leave bruises doesn't mean it isn't harm.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:00 AM on October 15, 2021 [20 favorites]
One way to manage sticking it out is to make looking for a new job your new hobby that you can take nice & leisurely. I know job hunting is the absolute worst, but if you decide it's your new hobby then it's always there for you when boss pulls some new shit.
posted by bleep at 11:20 AM on October 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by bleep at 11:20 AM on October 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Someone posted this on the thread about the kidney donation short story thread: Academic Mobbing. It hit me like a huge hammer, because I have experienced every single little detail of what they describe. And yes, in the end I actually got fired in spite of being a core employee with a record of excellence and being popular with co-workers and students. I was "vulnerable" (translate: driven to near insanity).
While it was going on, I was advised by outside people who wanted to help me to quit more than once, actually four or five times, but I really loved the job I thought I was doing. In my perception, the crazy boss and all the rest were just distractions from my core mission.
In the linked article, they mention that the bullies will continue to mob you after you have been fired/quit. This happened, and it actually happened to me the day before yesterday, almost six years after I was fired. I have a new nice job, and as part of that, I hosted an event where the head of organization of my former job was present. They asked a question that to the unassuming listener would sound ignorant and irrelevant but not offensive, but which was clearly meant as a personal attack. If it had been three years ago, I would have felt vulnerable. Now I just treated it as ignorant and irrelevant but not offensive. They ran off before the social part of the event.
posted by mumimor at 12:39 PM on October 15, 2021 [10 favorites]
While it was going on, I was advised by outside people who wanted to help me to quit more than once, actually four or five times, but I really loved the job I thought I was doing. In my perception, the crazy boss and all the rest were just distractions from my core mission.
In the linked article, they mention that the bullies will continue to mob you after you have been fired/quit. This happened, and it actually happened to me the day before yesterday, almost six years after I was fired. I have a new nice job, and as part of that, I hosted an event where the head of organization of my former job was present. They asked a question that to the unassuming listener would sound ignorant and irrelevant but not offensive, but which was clearly meant as a personal attack. If it had been three years ago, I would have felt vulnerable. Now I just treated it as ignorant and irrelevant but not offensive. They ran off before the social part of the event.
posted by mumimor at 12:39 PM on October 15, 2021 [10 favorites]
I left my job like this (I wrote an askme about it which you might want to check for advice). A year and a half out I am, like, gratitude-journal, praise-be-to-God level grateful every day that I left, and I don’t really go in for that stuff at all. It’s been life changing.
posted by ferret branca at 12:49 PM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by ferret branca at 12:49 PM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
I mean.... from my perspective, if the "boss" is powerless to demote or fire you, and you don't even have to be physically in the same location, you've got a pretty sweet deal at the moment.
If you're so inclined, you can push back when he starts to launch into a tirade -- a lot of guys like this will just crumple at the slightest sign of Not Bothered By Their Bullshit. "I'm going to go have my lunch while you make your edits, I'll check back in with you for followup in an hour. *disconnect*"
Or just make use of the mute button and watch his silly mouth flap at you while he says his silly things.
posted by ook at 1:04 PM on October 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
If you're so inclined, you can push back when he starts to launch into a tirade -- a lot of guys like this will just crumple at the slightest sign of Not Bothered By Their Bullshit. "I'm going to go have my lunch while you make your edits, I'll check back in with you for followup in an hour. *disconnect*"
Or just make use of the mute button and watch his silly mouth flap at you while he says his silly things.
posted by ook at 1:04 PM on October 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Agreed that this is a sweet situation, and if the boss has no actual power, then just grey rock them until they get bored enough to not treat you that way. I'd kill for your situation, bc I'm used to being underpaid, overworked, AND treated like shit.
Alternatively, can you ask HR or some higher up to switch to a different manager?
posted by greta simone at 1:59 PM on October 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
Alternatively, can you ask HR or some higher up to switch to a different manager?
posted by greta simone at 1:59 PM on October 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
I asked a similar question here a couple of years ago, and stuck it out. It nearly killed me, literally. Get out with all deliberate speed.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 6:10 PM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Sheydem-tants at 6:10 PM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
You said you recognize that you are in an abusive situation, but also that it has "no impact" on you. Is your recognition an abstract one, i.e, based on things you've read or heard about abusive behavior?
I'm just curious about whether you actually *feel* abused, or if it's more a case of a recognition that what you're seeing conforms to patterns that you know, on an intellectual level, are abusive... but the behavior isn't actually bothering you all that much.
If it *is* making you feel really bad, then it's worth getting away from. If it's not, then maybe it's just some occasional static you should put up with in exchange for all the good aspects of the job.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:42 PM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm just curious about whether you actually *feel* abused, or if it's more a case of a recognition that what you're seeing conforms to patterns that you know, on an intellectual level, are abusive... but the behavior isn't actually bothering you all that much.
If it *is* making you feel really bad, then it's worth getting away from. If it's not, then maybe it's just some occasional static you should put up with in exchange for all the good aspects of the job.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:42 PM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
What would happen if you flat out refused something as stupid and pretty as making you watch them edit a document during lunch hour? If you said “ok, I’m taking my lunch hour, and I’m too busy to watch you edit. Send me the edited document and I’ll review the changes and get back to you if I have any questions.” Would you get fired or otherwise demoted at work? Does your boss have the power to inflict actual damage if you are very firm boundaries (we will communicate primarily by email, I’m available only between these hours and I will cc HR in if you use that language with me, etc)?
If they can’t but you have wanted to be pleasant to them and a ‘good’ employee, i say fuck it, set tight boundaries and get the work done and look for a new job with the same benefits in peace and quiet. Being nice to someone who is deliberately horrible is unpaid work you don’t owe anyone.
If your boss can hurt you at work when you set tight boundaries like rearrange your schedule, cancel projects or fire you - then be calmly pleasant and spend half of every day from now on job hunting to get out ASAP. If you can afford it just quit.
A bad manager is worth quitting over absolutely.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 9:12 PM on October 15, 2021
If they can’t but you have wanted to be pleasant to them and a ‘good’ employee, i say fuck it, set tight boundaries and get the work done and look for a new job with the same benefits in peace and quiet. Being nice to someone who is deliberately horrible is unpaid work you don’t owe anyone.
If your boss can hurt you at work when you set tight boundaries like rearrange your schedule, cancel projects or fire you - then be calmly pleasant and spend half of every day from now on job hunting to get out ASAP. If you can afford it just quit.
A bad manager is worth quitting over absolutely.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 9:12 PM on October 15, 2021
Concur with Omnomnom, set a time limit. Then spend your time as Bleep says, using job hunting as a new hobby, something to learn and grow with.
The important part is to mentally start leaving this situation. It can and will permanently harm you.
posted by ptm at 1:03 PM on October 16, 2021
The important part is to mentally start leaving this situation. It can and will permanently harm you.
posted by ptm at 1:03 PM on October 16, 2021
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posted by misanthropicsarah at 10:13 AM on October 15, 2021 [8 favorites]