How do I support my 16 yo son who may be exaggerating a mugging?
October 2, 2021 11:31 AM   Subscribe

Where do I go to after taking him to the police station who then, after hearing his story, stated quite frankly that they thought he might be lying? He insists that he's not.

My son is 16 and was out and about, walking back from the movies when he touched base with some guys who then went on to scare him and make him buy them some snacks from the local train station. Apparently they told him they'd zip tie him if he didn't buy the snacks so he did and then he walked away from them without any harassment to a nearby open store where he called me and I picked him up (we live about 10 minutes away).

He wanted to report it to the cops; he was upset but not overwhelmingly distraught when I picked him up. He confirmed that they hadn't actually physically hurt him but he felt that if he'd refused they would have. He had called the Police Link line (not the emergency number) and they told him to to go to a police station which was not local but not that far away. I told him to call the local police station and they told him to comply with what he'd been told on the help line he'd called previously.

My initial response was to try and talk him down, as he hadn't been hurt and he'd done what he'd felt was necessary to avoid a physical confrontation with these people. He insisted that he wanted to report them. I've caught him in lies in the past but at the same time I feel it's my duty as his mother to support him in times of distress and I don't want him to feel that if he was scared by these people that I don't support him or feel that his feelings are not valid.

At the same time, the people he was scared by were indigenous and therefore more likely to receive an exaggerated response from the cops for something that may not have been as threatening as my son perceived it to be.

In the end, I took him to the police station, he made his statement where he also mentioned that he kept zip ties himself in his pocket which made the cop question the whole premise of his complaint, and now we're at the point where I have to advise him on whether he should make a formal complaint to the local police, if his story is true, or whether he should just chalk it up to experience and avoid any further complications?

I will follow the lead my son gives me. If he wants to go to the local police station tomorrow because he insists that he was mugged then I will comply.

If, however, he doesn't want to take things further, what do I tell him to confirm that I'm on his side and that he did the right thing by complying with the guys who were scaring him into spending money on them because it was better that than getting the shit kicked out of him?
posted by anonymous to Law & Government (25 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
he also mentioned that he kept zip ties himself in his pocket

This detail makes me suspect some critical information is missing from this story. Are his cable ties big enough to secure wrists? Did you see them? What motivates him to carry zip ties around? Unusual.
posted by Rash at 12:03 PM on October 2, 2021 [15 favorites]


Assuming the truth:

Whether he was physically hurt or not is immaterial. He was humiliated, which lasts a lot longer than a few bruises.

Encourage him by letting him know that he did the right thing under the circumstances, that these things happen sometimes, and that you’re impressed that he kept himself together under pressure. Also let him know that the best way to deal with these situations is to never let them exist — talk through what he could have done differently and what he may change in the future.

If he’s lying then the first part will ring hollow, but helping a 16 year old think about safety on the street is a win either way.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:07 PM on October 2, 2021 [8 favorites]


I guess I wonder what kinds of lies your son tends to tell and how his judgement is generally, because this seems like it would be a big, gratuitous and troubling lie for a 16 year old to tell - not like telling a lie to get out of trouble or to get something he wanted, but a gratuitous lie to get someone else in trouble which would involve him talking to the cops several times, etc. If you really think he's gone from lying about common teenage stuff to lying in order to get ego gratification from siccing the cops on someone, I think that needs a serious response.

But this sounds like something that happened, right? I mean, if he were going to lie, why tell this sort of weird unpleasant story about basically being bullied instead of a clear-cut story about being mugged? Why tell the cops about the zip ties that he carries?

I guess what I usually tell myself (and I live in a high-crime neighborhood and have had a lot of stuff stolen, unpleasant interactions, people shooting up in my backyard, etc) is that society does not provide me with good tools to deal with these problems, and I'm choosing to accept the problems rather than use bad tools. So, for instance, if my roof needs repairs I don't burn the house down even though that would "solve" the problem of having a roof with a leak in it. If my only tool is a book of matches, well, I have to live with the leaky roof. The only tool you've got is the cops and the cops are a bad tool, as you point out. It's our job as a society to make better tools for dealing with public safety, racism, the things that push people into committing petty crimes, etc. If we don't have those tools we can't just sic the cops on people over petty shit because when we use the violence and corruption of policing it's like burning down the house we all live in.
posted by Frowner at 12:11 PM on October 2, 2021 [35 favorites]


There's some good lessons here! He got himself out of social or physical danger by telling the other young men what they wanted to hear and then leaving, which you helped him do. That's the most important thing here- Often you can just leave or avoid potential violence, when it's in the form of hotheads standing around on the street talking shit.

He's also insisting on a feeling of justice, because he was frightened and that is a kind of violence. That's good! Having someone threaten, intimidate, frighten you for their own fun, being bullied basically, is a horrible feeling. You can sympathize with him all day on this.

He's also seen first hand that the police usually do not get involved in a he-said-he-said unless someone is literally bleeding. They will just not want to do the footwork and paperwork, when no one has bruises and only words have been exchanged and no property crime has happened.

One lesson you could tell your son is that involving the police with anyone, and especially indigenous people, can lead directly to police violence, so please don't call them unless it's important enough that you are willing to risk someone else being injured or killed. Basically, unless someone needs to be arrested right now this very moment for being actively violent, or someone needs an ambulance, I would never call 911. That's just me.

If you are concerned about his safety, he may be and feel safer walking around with his friends, so whatever he says about spending time with one or more of his friends, encourage him to be with other people as he spends his time, that may help him feel less alone and be less likely to get picked on by a group.

I feel like I'm talking about a grade-schooler here even though he is a teen, but it's really just the case that young people get singled out as vulnerable and told strange and weird stuff by strangers. I remember being on city buses alone as a high school student and having the weirdest, vaguest, half-threatening conversations with the flotsam and jetsam of city inhabitants. People who adults don't talk to, like the visibly homeless, and young men who are stereotyped as being a thug. I think that jerks, predators/abusive people, lonely people who are (treated as) mentally ill, etc. seem to hone in on young people who don't have the cynicism or boundaries to stop them from getting all weird up in your face. So, until he's older, your son's gonna get some weird interactions because that's just life.
posted by panhopticon at 12:12 PM on October 2, 2021 [23 favorites]


The zip ties are a curious detail, partially because he had them but mostly because he felt compelled to mention them.

If he’s lying it may be a reflection of a very real fear he’s living with, hence the zip ties.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:12 PM on October 2, 2021 [1 favorite]


"Touched base with" sounds like your kid knows who the guys are (and perhaps named names?) My utterly uninformed guess is that he could have been bullied/metaphorically arm twisted into buying snacks but that the zip ties are a false detail he added to make himself feel less embarrassed about having felt threatened.

At any rate, if these are people he'll likely run into again, maybe you can practice some scripts for dealing with and de-escalating future encounters. If they think he's rich and can afford to buy them snacks, what might he say? Do they have family members who can be looped in (parents, aunties, etc) and bring some non-police authority figures into this?

At the same time, are there things you can do to help him feel less vulnerable? Does he often walk alone? Can he have a buddy system, or arrange for car pool / pick ups? Would a martial arts or self defense course help him feel more comfortable in his own body?
posted by spamandkimchi at 12:25 PM on October 2, 2021 [11 favorites]


I think...it might be worthwhile to find out what he wants out of this. What does he imagine the outcome of reporting it will be? And why does he want that? Like, does he want them to be just as humiliated as he felt? Revenge? Is he a stickler for justice (if they're not brought to justice, the sky mught fall!). Does he want to prevent it happening to others? Is he afraid of it happening to him again and he wants them locked up? Does he want the world to officially take seriously that he's been done wrong? Does he want to affirm that he matters in some vague way?

This is difficult - most people don't know themselves why they want what they want. You'll have to be intuitive and curious, ask in ways that are creative. Temper what he says with what you know of his character.

Once you know what he wants, you'll be better equipped to judge whether reporting the crime will get him that. Also, Reporting will realistically not feel good or bring straightforward justice. It might lead to death. It might not go anywhere. Or it might. Share what you think with him.

Also, knowing what is behind his insistence will help you temper your own reactions better.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:29 PM on October 2, 2021 [9 favorites]


Right, like spamandkimchi, I'm assuming he was/is "friends" with these people, given your use of the phrase "touch base." So while sure, it still sucks to have people you thought were your friends use intimidation to get you to buy them snacks, it's a bit different than having a stranger mug you. This seems more like a bully issue, which can of course still be scary and unpleasant, but a better solution that turning to our very-imperfect legal system would be to talk to the other kids' parents. Maybe the other kids thought they were being funny by doing this? Not that that makes it okay of course, but perhaps you could have a productive conversation with them about it.

The other point is that there isn't much of a crime here, from a legal standpoint. No weapon was brandished, and the total cost to your son was however much the snacks cost...I'm assuming we're talking less than $20? Unless you live in a very low-crime area, the cops probably are not going to see this as much of a priority.
posted by coffeecat at 1:07 PM on October 2, 2021 [1 favorite]


I'm wondering if this is not a story where these young men were "friends" who wanted him to do something worse/more dangerous that he elected not to do, and this is his cover to explain why he needed to call you for pickup. And now he wants to tell the cops to put more of a barrier between him and them. So I agree with those who suggest trying to elicit what he wants/thinks will happen if he makes a formal report, and to gently contrast that with what is actually likely to happen (indigenous young men getting harassed by the cops, no one goes to jail, there's no formal restitution to him at all). In the end, though, if he wants to do it, I think he's old enough to make that call.

Either way, your kid is walking around with zip ties for no good reason(?). That indicates bad judgment and some level of involvement in bad stuff. Once the immediate situation has been resolved, figuring that out needs to be your next priority.
posted by praemunire at 1:17 PM on October 2, 2021 [8 favorites]


I don’t have specific answers but our preschool just had a workshop with Kidpower - they may have resources/scripts for you.
posted by bananacabana at 1:18 PM on October 2, 2021


The "carrying zip ties" thing really set off alarm bells for me. Like, the fact that he brought that up to the police, and that he said he hadn't felt overly threatened but "could have been if he hadn't complied" and that the perpetrators were "indigenous" really rings some alarm bells loud and clear.

What kind of media is he consuming? I ask because the kind of people who carry zip-ties (because they think they'll have an opportunity to use them on people) and are happy to tell law enforcement that they're doing so and expect support and accolades from law enforcement officers for doing so... Well, those are a certain kind of people, and their messages are rampant on the internet, and a lot of teenage boys are unfortunately pretty open to that kind of messaging. That kind of messaging also subtly encourages young men to seek out certain kinds of confrontations where they can be the victim which will justify doing things like using zip ties... or violence.

I want to be clear that I'm certain your son had an uncomfortable experience of some sort. I'm just cautioning you to be absolutely clear about all circumstances.
posted by erst at 1:52 PM on October 2, 2021 [26 favorites]


Attacking a person making a complaint is a common police behavior. If fact, it's so common I suspect its taught as a way to validate a complaint. No one on the receiving end likes it, or has a higher opinion of police because of it.

Or maybe they do it because it has a 5% chance of uncovering a perp where the chance of making a case on the real perp is zero.
posted by SemiSalt at 2:20 PM on October 2, 2021 [2 favorites]


I think it may be time to sit him down and explain some harder truths about the police.

You can tell him that you support him and that you're sorry he had a scary experience, and even if he's not quite telling the full truth those things can be said sincerely. But it's time to explain that as an approaching-adult person there's going to be times in your life when things are unfair and you feel done wrong and you just have to learn your lessons from the experience and process the trauma and that's it. You don't get justice, and the police aren't here to sort out minor personal conflicts or bullying. And especially with interactions with people who tend to get the worst of the police's attention, involving the police should be only done after careful consideration.

I think you should ask him what he expects the outcome to be if he pursues this, and I think you need to be honest with him if he is not being realistic. You can support him as a person feeling discomfort while still advising him about not getting himself in trouble and not being racist.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:29 PM on October 2, 2021 [21 favorites]


If he wants to go to the local police station tomorrow because he insists that he was mugged then I will comply.

What happened to believing the victim here? When did "well just because you were coerced by a group of people doesn't make it a crime" become a view to hold? If your son had been the coercing party here, would you

I realise that the Capitol riots have demonised zip ties, but people do carry them as part of their "everyday carry" (it's a thing.)

It is completely possible to validate his experience and comfort him, and also talk about the risks to these people if he chooses to report. He needs to know that your belief and support is not conditional on his choices here.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:47 PM on October 2, 2021 [5 favorites]


So the police took the side of Indigenous teens over a (presuming) white teen? If that’s the case then your son’s story must have had huge holes in it, because that really just... doesn’t happen often, as you know.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 2:48 PM on October 2, 2021 [8 favorites]


I would not encourage him to go back to the police over this. Assuming that what he has said so far is exactly what happened, then he's not going to get anything positive from the police, who are more likely to dismiss/belittle him than anything else. That is, he is likely to get a repeat of what happened when he contacted them the first time.

I do not know how he thinks the justice system really works, but it looks like it does not match up to reality (he is 16, so that's not unreasonable). Of the two choices you set out in your question, finding a way in which he can chalk it up to experience seems like the more productive option. You can do that without questioning the accuracy of his story - it sounds very unpleasant but not something that the police would do anything useful about.
posted by plonkee at 4:40 PM on October 2, 2021 [7 favorites]


I’d be interested in why he’s carrying zip ties and the relevance of that. It’s an odd detail and doesn’t really make sense in the context of the story.
posted by Jubey at 5:21 PM on October 2, 2021 [4 favorites]


Regardless of what you do about this particular situation, I think it would be worthwhile for you to talk to a family psychiatrist or something for some perspectives on your son. Because there’s a lot of details here that are extremely concerning to me, and I’m frankly concerned your son is being radicalized. Lying, carrying zip ties, turning to violent authorities (cops) to settle something, and I am worried about what’s going to happen when the cops (rightly) don’t pursue this and what impact that’s going to have on where your son is headed mentally.

This encounter sounds *to me* like he got in a macho-off where he thought he had the upper hand and threatened to zip tie one of the aggressors who then turned around and said they’d take HIS zip ties. He tried to throw down, got his masculinity threatened and tried to regain it via the cops.
posted by Bottlecap at 5:38 PM on October 2, 2021 [13 favorites]


I was also curious about the zip-ties angle. In my brief research, almost no one EDC's zip-ties for restraining people, but for being able to fix stuff on the fly, similar in utility to duct tape or paracord. All of which, imo, the actually usefulness of every-day-carrying such items is up for debate. I mean the universe is entropic but it's not so entropic that I need zip-ties in my pocket 24/7. And I'm primary a cabling technician so I use zip-ties all the time at work. I digress.

A very very small segment of posters on the various forum threads I just read even thought about using them for zip-tieing people up. While it did pre-exist the insurrection of January 6 2021, I feel like this was the event where the conception of zip-tie use entered the mainstream, such as it is, and the resultant new coverage and tracking down of participants identified as "Zip Tie #1" and "Zip Tie #2" and the like.

My laymans-take is that the subject's conception of zip-ties is skewed by the Jan 6 insurrection notoriety. As some sort of thing a group of people on the street would threaten to use in a mugging or bullying incident, while not inconceivable, seems incredibly unlikely to me. Coupled with the fact that same subject sees zip-ties as something viable for EDC and worthy of noting to the police suggests to me an incongruous usage of zip-ties with what is arguable a pretty niche reason for having them to begin with.

On preview: I think Bottlecap has it right on the zip-ties thing and said what I was getting at much more clearly.
posted by glonous keming at 5:47 PM on October 2, 2021 [2 favorites]


I don't know what to make of "whether or not he's telling the truth" here. This story sounds officially really strange enough ("We'll zip tie you if you don't buy me snacks?!" Is this A Thing?) to seem more real to me than a generic assault-y story. I have one relative who's been known to make up lies/say some really implausible stuff occasionally and I've never figured out how one is supposed to deal with that stuff anyway. I generally can't prove whether or not it's a lie so I just assume it's true out of politeness. I would also assume in this case that it's your kid and unless you have better reason to assume he's making it up, you're probably better off assuming it's true.

So, after covering that, we're left with the real fact of this story: the police aren't interested in doing anything about this. That's where I'd focus here. Your kid tried reporting it, it's not going to go anywhere, it's probably not worth pursuing more. (And also, the ethics of pursuing this against people of color when they may be more at risk for losing their lives.) I really liked Frowner's and panhopticon's posts. He's just going to have to cope with the aftermath of this on his own, learning to accept that justice doesn't happen much. And even if the police were interested, how well would it go? Most likely it would not have a satisfying outcome.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:47 PM on October 2, 2021 [2 favorites]


A very very small segment of posters on the various forum threads I just read even thought about using them for zip-tieing people up. While it did pre-exist the insurrection of January 6 2021, I feel like this was the event where the conception of zip-tie use entered the mainstream, such as it is, and the resultant new coverage and tracking down of participants identified as "Zip Tie #1" and "Zip Tie #2" and the like.

They're quite commonly used in certain comic books for this purpose. Which--I'd rather my kid thought he was Robin than that he was emulating a January 6 participant, but, still, not fantastic.
posted by praemunire at 6:39 PM on October 2, 2021 [2 favorites]


I hate to say I agree with cops, but this story smells bad to me too. In my limited experience with troubled youths (who have tended to be young women, which might be a factor), kids don't want cops involved in their issues even when they're actually serious. They think they can handle everything themselves and usually have to be convinced to report.
Two, the zip ties. That's a huge red flag. Actual thugs don't really use those, they'll just beat you up or use real weapons . It's more of a serial killer thing or... an Extremely Online Edgelord thing. The same kind of EOEs who do things like swatting. Which is what this sounds like to me: an attempt to weaponize racial police brutality to settle some kid biz.
My next step as a parent (which I'm not YMMV) would be to dig into the zip ties thing and have a long hard look at where my kid hangs out online.
posted by Freyja at 5:13 AM on October 3, 2021 [4 favorites]


Sometimes when people (kids, but also adults) get caught in a lie, they double down on it and it becomes nearly impossible for them to be truthful. My answer is from the perspective that he has embellished or created a story –probably to sort out what was a confusing/embarrassing/upsetting episode.

I hear that you want to support him, so take him to the local station if he wants. But you can be “on his side” without buying his story hook, line, and sinker. Obviously, I know maybe 10 percent of the situation, but I am sensing some manipulation on his part, and you feeling torn because you don’t really believe him. So, I would focus on what he can and should do if he feels unsafe, targeted, etc. in the future.

The parts of this scenario that would need to be discussed:
-Why is he walking around with zip ties? Are you okay with that?
-Does he understand there was no real crime? Even if it happened exactly to the way he described it, he was able to get away safely and was not harmed.
-Involving the police, for many people, is the last thing they want to happen. Your kid might be sheltered from this, it is worth talking about, doesn’t have to be connected to the incident as much as a general conversation.

Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 5:49 AM on October 3, 2021


Does he understand there was no real crime?

Extortion is a crime. The issue isn’t so much whether the events described would be criminal as whether the police response would be proportionate.
posted by praemunire at 7:42 AM on October 3, 2021 [3 favorites]


By all that is holy, do not start questioning your kid about zip ties or anything like that until some amount of time that seems reasonable has passed. Unless you want to hammer home to your kid that you do not believe him. None of us are experts in your kid. Still, I cannot believe that a 16-year-old would call his mom for a ride unless something upsetting had happened.

So please respond to that true emotion and support and validate your son's feelings. Of course you should explain the reality of our racist white supremacist society and the reality that police kill everyone but especially people of color and mentally ill people. Suggest that your son think it over carefully, like sleep on it, before he makes his final decision. I think it's great that you want to support him and I think it's critically important that you support him regardless of your suspicion.

There's something about the responses here that I find troubling. Not all of them of course. But some of them feel gendered to me and I wonder if people would be responding differently if your child was female. In any case, Internet strangers don't know what the fuck is going on. But as the mother of a former teenager who lied on occasion and as a former teenager who lied on occasion, please don't make the fact that someone has lied in the past a reason to not believe them now. You should absolutely follow up about the zip ties but do that another fucking time. This is an excellent opportunity to either truly support your son or make it clear that you don't trust him.

My ex once refused to take our kid to the hospital at night because she used to exaggerate her discomfort and pretend that she was injured when she was not. It was infuriating that it happened, but I argued that we had to always take her seriously because we were not inside her body and had no idea what was actually happening even though 90% of the time it seem like bullshit.

So I got this call from my kid late one night begging me to go to the doctor, which was unusual. The ex refused because he was fed up. So I took a cab over there to pick my kid up and then I took a cab to a hospital and then the next day our kid had an appendectomy. I don't know how my ex slept after that but I slept well.

None of us knows what happened. Implausible shit happens to me all the time. Maybe your kid is lying. But his emotions are real. Don't worry about the facts, focus on supporting his emotional response and focus on giving him access to anti-racist resources so he understands or can come to understand why calling cops on people can be a death sentence. Also, that being an asshole to someone is not OK but also not necessarily a criminal offense. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 12:33 PM on October 3, 2021 [6 favorites]


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