How do I communicate better when I don't know how I feel?
September 3, 2021 8:59 PM Subscribe
I have a friend who is very inexperienced in romantic/sexual relationships. On the other hand, I have quite a lot of experience both in long term and casual relationships. Both of us are in our late twenties/earlier thirties.
He had previously asked me to go out with him but I said no (I was not attracted to him). He asked out most of our mutual friends after that. Recently, he lost weight and changed his appearance and I became attracted to him. He then had two brief relationships within the span of a few months.
He started flirting with me again and told me he is a virgin. We ended up sleeping together once, last week. He was very inexperienced and nervous and I tried to be as nice and informative as possible, but there were a few things (he is very hairy and has a bit of a body odor) that bothered me and I told him that it would be the last time. In my mind, what happened was more of me giving him a lesson so that he can improve his chances with women. I mentioned the body odor thing as gently as I could (not the body hair) and he was a little offended. I said I didn’t want him to change (the way he smells) but it was just not for me. I know he’s in that phase where he wants to date/meet a lot of women, and also has a lot of mistakes to make before he can mature as someone in a relationship. Aside from the other issues, I definitely don’t want to be the person he practices on, so I don't want to be in a relationship with him.
Why I don't want to sleep with him again: throughout the years, I’ve hurt quite a number of people, especially less experienced people. Among other things, I can get a little jealous, I make a lot of assumptions and tend to avoid communication. This has led to issues. Most importantly, I have an anxious-avoidant attachment style. I’ve been happy being by myself with the occasional fling (with others who want the same thing) and my focus is on building long-lasting friendships, until I meet someone absolutely compatible.
Now, it’s been a week since we slept together. I got a little attached after I slept with him, and it took me a week to feel normal and detached. Then he asked me to meet up while I was at an event and all those feelings came back. We acted friendly and normal. Today, he called me and spoke on the phone for an hour about a lot of random things. At the end, I think he was trying to gather more information on the aftermath and what the experience meant to me. I’m not sure what is happening in his mind. He’s probably confused and I think his confusion is making me confused (and I’m normally pretty clear-headed – I have been quite single for about two years).
How should I best proceed and preserve this friendship when I'm a little confused about my feelings?
He had previously asked me to go out with him but I said no (I was not attracted to him). He asked out most of our mutual friends after that. Recently, he lost weight and changed his appearance and I became attracted to him. He then had two brief relationships within the span of a few months.
He started flirting with me again and told me he is a virgin. We ended up sleeping together once, last week. He was very inexperienced and nervous and I tried to be as nice and informative as possible, but there were a few things (he is very hairy and has a bit of a body odor) that bothered me and I told him that it would be the last time. In my mind, what happened was more of me giving him a lesson so that he can improve his chances with women. I mentioned the body odor thing as gently as I could (not the body hair) and he was a little offended. I said I didn’t want him to change (the way he smells) but it was just not for me. I know he’s in that phase where he wants to date/meet a lot of women, and also has a lot of mistakes to make before he can mature as someone in a relationship. Aside from the other issues, I definitely don’t want to be the person he practices on, so I don't want to be in a relationship with him.
Why I don't want to sleep with him again: throughout the years, I’ve hurt quite a number of people, especially less experienced people. Among other things, I can get a little jealous, I make a lot of assumptions and tend to avoid communication. This has led to issues. Most importantly, I have an anxious-avoidant attachment style. I’ve been happy being by myself with the occasional fling (with others who want the same thing) and my focus is on building long-lasting friendships, until I meet someone absolutely compatible.
Now, it’s been a week since we slept together. I got a little attached after I slept with him, and it took me a week to feel normal and detached. Then he asked me to meet up while I was at an event and all those feelings came back. We acted friendly and normal. Today, he called me and spoke on the phone for an hour about a lot of random things. At the end, I think he was trying to gather more information on the aftermath and what the experience meant to me. I’m not sure what is happening in his mind. He’s probably confused and I think his confusion is making me confused (and I’m normally pretty clear-headed – I have been quite single for about two years).
How should I best proceed and preserve this friendship when I'm a little confused about my feelings?
First off feelings are complicated and not airways consistant with eachother, which is normal, although confusing at the best of times.
In summary:
It sounds like you had some physical attraction, you acted on it when you did, discovered when you got close that they were some specific things that were a deal-breakers to you. But it seems you did enjoy the time together well enough that you felt more of something good towards him. You've discoveredbut that your attraction fades quickly and but can reapear.
You know specific things about you that makes long term relationships more difficult, you know you are sending mixed messages right now.
So first off, you need to define what you want from this relationship regardless of your momentary feelings. For example, if you want a friend (without sex) you talk to atleast once a week, communicate that, then do that constantly regardless of how you feel.
I think it's okay to just pick a path and stick with it
for awhile when your actual feelings are a rollercoaster, it's but not necessarily easy! (Of course you never have to stay on a relationship where things are unsafe or boundaries are crossed!) You know your emotional good feelings about him are short lived that this high is going to come down. Your communication to him should align with that whatever plan you choose in advance regardless of how you feel in a particular moment.
I think it is fair to communicate that to him, whatever you decide . Anxious avoidant people sometimes need to work through trying to connect with people when they are feeling anxious avoidant about it, but that in no way means it has to be this person or even ever.
posted by AlexiaSky at 11:54 PM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
In summary:
It sounds like you had some physical attraction, you acted on it when you did, discovered when you got close that they were some specific things that were a deal-breakers to you. But it seems you did enjoy the time together well enough that you felt more of something good towards him. You've discoveredbut that your attraction fades quickly and but can reapear.
You know specific things about you that makes long term relationships more difficult, you know you are sending mixed messages right now.
So first off, you need to define what you want from this relationship regardless of your momentary feelings. For example, if you want a friend (without sex) you talk to atleast once a week, communicate that, then do that constantly regardless of how you feel.
I think it's okay to just pick a path and stick with it
for awhile when your actual feelings are a rollercoaster, it's but not necessarily easy! (Of course you never have to stay on a relationship where things are unsafe or boundaries are crossed!) You know your emotional good feelings about him are short lived that this high is going to come down. Your communication to him should align with that whatever plan you choose in advance regardless of how you feel in a particular moment.
I think it is fair to communicate that to him, whatever you decide . Anxious avoidant people sometimes need to work through trying to connect with people when they are feeling anxious avoidant about it, but that in no way means it has to be this person or even ever.
posted by AlexiaSky at 11:54 PM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
You seem to be making a big thing out of his inexperience in relationship to yours and assumptions about where is he now eg "knowing" he has to make a lot of mistakes before he can mature into someone ready for a relationship and that you would be the person he "practices" on.
This might be a bit presumptuous . I've known of people (several) with literally zero relationship experience who began and sustained wonderful relationships with more experienced partners right from the jump, some that have lasted well over a decade now, so inexperience doesn't always equal = relationship disaster.
I'm just wondering if you're projecting all kinds of things about what you think he is or is not ready for or capable of based on past experience or your own beliefs. Do you actually like this guy? Do you have chemistry?
Regardless, if you aren't open to sleeping with him again, then proceed as if you're not going to, and if he tries to initiate explicitly just tell him you had a nice time but don't want to have sex again because you're not in that place. If he tries to initiate indirectly, eg suggesting a casual hangout that you know could lead to sex, just take a pass and suggest a less "datey" kind of hangout eg a meet up with friends or whatever. Alternatively if you're getting the vibes you can just say "look, I don't want to be presumptuous but I get the feeling you might want to hook up and if that's the case, I'm just not in that place. But I value our friendship and as long you're ok being just friends, I'd like that." I think that's pretty much all you can do. No need for a long winded explanation.
posted by cultureclash82 at 5:25 AM on September 4, 2021 [15 favorites]
This might be a bit presumptuous . I've known of people (several) with literally zero relationship experience who began and sustained wonderful relationships with more experienced partners right from the jump, some that have lasted well over a decade now, so inexperience doesn't always equal = relationship disaster.
I'm just wondering if you're projecting all kinds of things about what you think he is or is not ready for or capable of based on past experience or your own beliefs. Do you actually like this guy? Do you have chemistry?
Regardless, if you aren't open to sleeping with him again, then proceed as if you're not going to, and if he tries to initiate explicitly just tell him you had a nice time but don't want to have sex again because you're not in that place. If he tries to initiate indirectly, eg suggesting a casual hangout that you know could lead to sex, just take a pass and suggest a less "datey" kind of hangout eg a meet up with friends or whatever. Alternatively if you're getting the vibes you can just say "look, I don't want to be presumptuous but I get the feeling you might want to hook up and if that's the case, I'm just not in that place. But I value our friendship and as long you're ok being just friends, I'd like that." I think that's pretty much all you can do. No need for a long winded explanation.
posted by cultureclash82 at 5:25 AM on September 4, 2021 [15 favorites]
Do not tell him that intensely personal things like his body chemistry are the reason you don't want to sleep with him again [*] and do not tell him that you only had a change of heart in the first place because he lost enough weight to turn you on. These are fine things to know in the secret places of your own heart and they indicate nothing bad about you; they are or would be deeply cruel things to tell him, especially under the guise of "education." if you already did? well. don't do it again.
If he has an actual question about why you won't sleep with him again - like if he's confused, not just badgering you - tell him the kind truth (= it was a worthwhile experience, you're glad if he had a nice time, and you don't want to do it again), not the cruel truth (you don't want to do it again and you find him physically unpleasant up close.) just be nice, you know. the only thing it is your business to lecture him on, should it become necessary, is the importance of taking no for an answer, even if he got a yes from you in the past. you are not interested in a long-term relationship with him so you have a responsibility to be consistent about that, for your own sake and for his. Casually sleeping with him now and then would be fine if you expected to be able to enjoy it without offering running critique, and it sounds like you do not expect to. so don't.
virgins are not the only ones who get emotionally confused about sex or the only ones who deserve consideration. but I do think it's especially egregious to offer, like, critique and feedback in this objectifying way to them. you aren't going to break his psyche into pieces or anything. but he probably will remember what you tell him forever even if it doesn't leave a scar.
[*] not only is it cruel but it's something everybody learns if they sleep with a few people, you don't have to make him his own object lesson in repulsion. sooner or later he will be attracted to someone who's sexy from two feet away and much less so, closer up. then he'll understand what "no chemistry" means.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:31 AM on September 4, 2021 [14 favorites]
If he has an actual question about why you won't sleep with him again - like if he's confused, not just badgering you - tell him the kind truth (= it was a worthwhile experience, you're glad if he had a nice time, and you don't want to do it again), not the cruel truth (you don't want to do it again and you find him physically unpleasant up close.) just be nice, you know. the only thing it is your business to lecture him on, should it become necessary, is the importance of taking no for an answer, even if he got a yes from you in the past. you are not interested in a long-term relationship with him so you have a responsibility to be consistent about that, for your own sake and for his. Casually sleeping with him now and then would be fine if you expected to be able to enjoy it without offering running critique, and it sounds like you do not expect to. so don't.
virgins are not the only ones who get emotionally confused about sex or the only ones who deserve consideration. but I do think it's especially egregious to offer, like, critique and feedback in this objectifying way to them. you aren't going to break his psyche into pieces or anything. but he probably will remember what you tell him forever even if it doesn't leave a scar.
[*] not only is it cruel but it's something everybody learns if they sleep with a few people, you don't have to make him his own object lesson in repulsion. sooner or later he will be attracted to someone who's sexy from two feet away and much less so, closer up. then he'll understand what "no chemistry" means.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:31 AM on September 4, 2021 [14 favorites]
also - I don't know that he is as nice as all this, or nice at all. but the one thing all Nice Boys do know, long before they get to sleep with anybody, is that you do. not. rate. women's. personal. physical. features & grooming. you think about them all you like, but you do not leave review-style comments on them, whether in the heat of the moment or after the fact unless asked. you only give compliments and even then you are careful.
which is to say: just because he was a virgin doesn't mean he doesn't have his own preferences or that he didn't have any negative reactions to you of the type you had to him. one might suppose he didn't, because he wants to sleep with you again, but that isn't so reliable. It is not probable, but it is possible he could have offered you the same kind of negative feedback you offered him (not because there is anything wrong with you, but because it happens) and that he was miffed, not because he is so sensitive about himself, but because he thought there was a tacit understanding that you might think that but you don't say it.
I mean that's why virgins are traditionally so charming, because they assume the other party knows best & they're willing to be guided, to a certain extent. they repress their own negative reactions because they don't know, or are afraid they don't know, the rules of attraction & are afraid of making gaffes. so if you are really teaching him anything, it's not just finesse and technique, which he will have to adjust from partner to partner anyway. you are teaching him what is socially acceptable to say to a sexual partner who fails to satisfy you. and while I do not, and would not ever, blame a man's past partners for teaching him to be insensitive, and while I would not like to think of myself as a teacher (in the same way you don't like to think of yourself as a "practice" model), it is something I would feel as an oppressive responsibility if I were someone's first.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:56 AM on September 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
which is to say: just because he was a virgin doesn't mean he doesn't have his own preferences or that he didn't have any negative reactions to you of the type you had to him. one might suppose he didn't, because he wants to sleep with you again, but that isn't so reliable. It is not probable, but it is possible he could have offered you the same kind of negative feedback you offered him (not because there is anything wrong with you, but because it happens) and that he was miffed, not because he is so sensitive about himself, but because he thought there was a tacit understanding that you might think that but you don't say it.
I mean that's why virgins are traditionally so charming, because they assume the other party knows best & they're willing to be guided, to a certain extent. they repress their own negative reactions because they don't know, or are afraid they don't know, the rules of attraction & are afraid of making gaffes. so if you are really teaching him anything, it's not just finesse and technique, which he will have to adjust from partner to partner anyway. you are teaching him what is socially acceptable to say to a sexual partner who fails to satisfy you. and while I do not, and would not ever, blame a man's past partners for teaching him to be insensitive, and while I would not like to think of myself as a teacher (in the same way you don't like to think of yourself as a "practice" model), it is something I would feel as an oppressive responsibility if I were someone's first.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:56 AM on September 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
I have to think if he actually knew the things you’ve said about him here he would agree that sleeping together again isn’t something you should do. Since it would be unkind to actually tell him any of this - that you only got interested when he lost weight, that you dislike his body chemistry and hair, that you were treating this as some sort of lesson for him, etc. - you shouldn’t. But you should do whatever you need to do to keep really firmly in your own mind that making this an ongoing thing would not be good for either of you.
Just keep being friends, and only friends, and decline to get into it if he wants to do some kind of post mortem. “I had a nice time with you but I really want us to just be friends going forward” is a full sentence.
He will find someone else who genuinely wants to sleep with him, and care a lot less about analyzing this one experience, with time. This confusion isn’t going to last forever, you just have to keep things on the rails for a little while until then.
posted by Stacey at 9:10 AM on September 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
Just keep being friends, and only friends, and decline to get into it if he wants to do some kind of post mortem. “I had a nice time with you but I really want us to just be friends going forward” is a full sentence.
He will find someone else who genuinely wants to sleep with him, and care a lot less about analyzing this one experience, with time. This confusion isn’t going to last forever, you just have to keep things on the rails for a little while until then.
posted by Stacey at 9:10 AM on September 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
How should I best proceed and preserve this friendship when I'm a little confused about my feelings?
Your friend has been interested in you for a while, and you weren't interested in him until he lost weight and divulged his virginity. Then you had consensual sex, and afterward you were inwardly and outwardly ("I mentioned the body odor thing as gently as I could") critical of him. Unless there's a major detail you're leaving out (like you're both members of a subculture with social mores quite different from the mainstream), I think you apologize for treating him shabbily, say you are stepping back from the friendship to sort some things out internally, and then do that.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:55 AM on September 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
Your friend has been interested in you for a while, and you weren't interested in him until he lost weight and divulged his virginity. Then you had consensual sex, and afterward you were inwardly and outwardly ("I mentioned the body odor thing as gently as I could") critical of him. Unless there's a major detail you're leaving out (like you're both members of a subculture with social mores quite different from the mainstream), I think you apologize for treating him shabbily, say you are stepping back from the friendship to sort some things out internally, and then do that.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:55 AM on September 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
I think...you're a bit like I used to be at your age. You're rationalising things and putting them on the other person to avoid standing by your own feelings. To protect yourself.
Like, you say in your mind you slept with him to "give him a lesson to improve his chances with women". I think that was your brain giving you a good reason to sleep with him, and a good reason to stop sleeping with him later (because you don't want a relationship with a guy who's not "absolutely compatible" with you and for whom you'd be the practice relationship).
While the simple truth is, you wanted to have sex with him and found him attractive. You did it for you (nothing wrong with that).
Similarly, your critique of his odor (and, internally, his hair). It's generally not necessary and also hurtful to explain to a fling exactly why you aren't into them. I think you rationalised it as giving him learning information. But I suspect at the same time you were using those criticisms to push him away and put him into a "not boyfriend" box, both internally for your own benefit and externally for his.
I'm not trying to rag on you. I'm saying this because if you want to be less confused you need to cut through your brain's bullshit. It's a smart brain and it's trying to help you get what you want while also stopping you from getting hurt later. To get there, it's using all sorts of reasonable sounding arguments and clouding the real issue.
1) You've been burnt before by your behavioural issues in serious relationships.
2) Your solution is to not start a relationship unless you can see from the start that this guy will be perfect and thus offer best chances for an problem free relationship
3) This guy is not that guy.
4) Unfortunately, having sex makes you feel things for the guy.
5) You find it hard to resist this temptation and he's initiating contact.
That really seems to be all there is to it. Can you stand by your feelings that despite your rational plans you feel date-y things for this guy, that you kind of want more, but it's messy because you know dating him would end badly?
My advice to you would be to question number 2): There will never be a guy who is so perfect that your hurtful issues (jealousy, avoidance) won't resurface. Instead of avoiding all imperfect guys forever, maybe you should work on this stuff in therapy.
That said, this guy probably is a bad choice for you because of his issues. He sounds like someone who's desperate for any woman, not you in particular, and he's inexperienced. It's not a good combination with your issues.
Dial back the friendship to where you're not having conversations about feelingsstuff and dating-anyone-stuff. Everything else is just your brain fooling you into having a "totally platonic friendship that - surprise! - leads to more, after all".
posted by Omnomnom at 12:17 PM on September 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
Like, you say in your mind you slept with him to "give him a lesson to improve his chances with women". I think that was your brain giving you a good reason to sleep with him, and a good reason to stop sleeping with him later (because you don't want a relationship with a guy who's not "absolutely compatible" with you and for whom you'd be the practice relationship).
While the simple truth is, you wanted to have sex with him and found him attractive. You did it for you (nothing wrong with that).
Similarly, your critique of his odor (and, internally, his hair). It's generally not necessary and also hurtful to explain to a fling exactly why you aren't into them. I think you rationalised it as giving him learning information. But I suspect at the same time you were using those criticisms to push him away and put him into a "not boyfriend" box, both internally for your own benefit and externally for his.
I'm not trying to rag on you. I'm saying this because if you want to be less confused you need to cut through your brain's bullshit. It's a smart brain and it's trying to help you get what you want while also stopping you from getting hurt later. To get there, it's using all sorts of reasonable sounding arguments and clouding the real issue.
1) You've been burnt before by your behavioural issues in serious relationships.
2) Your solution is to not start a relationship unless you can see from the start that this guy will be perfect and thus offer best chances for an problem free relationship
3) This guy is not that guy.
4) Unfortunately, having sex makes you feel things for the guy.
5) You find it hard to resist this temptation and he's initiating contact.
That really seems to be all there is to it. Can you stand by your feelings that despite your rational plans you feel date-y things for this guy, that you kind of want more, but it's messy because you know dating him would end badly?
My advice to you would be to question number 2): There will never be a guy who is so perfect that your hurtful issues (jealousy, avoidance) won't resurface. Instead of avoiding all imperfect guys forever, maybe you should work on this stuff in therapy.
That said, this guy probably is a bad choice for you because of his issues. He sounds like someone who's desperate for any woman, not you in particular, and he's inexperienced. It's not a good combination with your issues.
Dial back the friendship to where you're not having conversations about feelingsstuff and dating-anyone-stuff. Everything else is just your brain fooling you into having a "totally platonic friendship that - surprise! - leads to more, after all".
posted by Omnomnom at 12:17 PM on September 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
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