Probably borrowing trouble worrying about it
September 3, 2021 10:03 AM Subscribe
In having a relationship with a man who lives in Texas, would I be safe from the new abortion law if there was an accident?
I think so, for the basic reason that I legally don't live there. There are other reasons that it's probably cool -- I am not likely to get accidentally pregnant; he has no crazy family; etc. Plus of course I trust him or I wouldn't be considering it. But I worry a lot. I am sorry if I take this too personally.
I think so, for the basic reason that I legally don't live there. There are other reasons that it's probably cool -- I am not likely to get accidentally pregnant; he has no crazy family; etc. Plus of course I trust him or I wouldn't be considering it. But I worry a lot. I am sorry if I take this too personally.
If you are confident that you will absolutely always be able to leave TX in a reasonable time frame, should you become pregnant, this will be all right. Bear in mind, though, that COVID restrictions are ever-shifting and at the start of the pandemic, plenty of folks got stuck wherever they were at for sometimes quite a long time. If there's any risk of you being stuck within TX for longer than 6 weeks then it starts to look a bit dicey.
Naturally a situation in which you are pregnant AND quarantined/travel restricted AND in TX requires a lot of bad dice-rolls, as it were, but if I were you I would be doubling up my birth control, and never traveling to TX during an infection surge.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:12 AM on September 3, 2021 [10 favorites]
Naturally a situation in which you are pregnant AND quarantined/travel restricted AND in TX requires a lot of bad dice-rolls, as it were, but if I were you I would be doubling up my birth control, and never traveling to TX during an infection surge.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:12 AM on September 3, 2021 [10 favorites]
SB8 regulates abortions performed in the state of Texas.
Does it have any language directed toward Texas residents who "aid and abet" an out-of-state abortion?
posted by Thorzdad at 10:14 AM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
Does it have any language directed toward Texas residents who "aid and abet" an out-of-state abortion?
posted by Thorzdad at 10:14 AM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
Does it have any language directed toward Texas residents who "aid and abet" an out-of-state abortion?
My understanding of the statute is that the prohibited act is a physician performing an abortion when a fetal heartbeat is detectable.
Sec. 171.204. PROHIBITED ABORTION OF UNBORN CHILD WITH
DETECTABLE FETAL HEARTBEAT; EFFECT. (a) Except as provided by
Section 171.205, a physician may not knowingly perform or induce an
abortion on a pregnant woman if the physician detected a fetal
heartbeat for the unborn child as required by Section 171.203 or
failed to perform a test to detect a fetal heartbeat.
The private enforcement provisions allow a private citizen to sue someone aiding and abetting a violation of that provision, meaning the provision that prohibits a Texas doctor from performing an abortion when there's a fetal heartbeat.
Full text of the bill available here: https://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB8/id/2395961
posted by sevensnowflakes at 10:18 AM on September 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
My understanding of the statute is that the prohibited act is a physician performing an abortion when a fetal heartbeat is detectable.
Sec. 171.204. PROHIBITED ABORTION OF UNBORN CHILD WITH
DETECTABLE FETAL HEARTBEAT; EFFECT. (a) Except as provided by
Section 171.205, a physician may not knowingly perform or induce an
abortion on a pregnant woman if the physician detected a fetal
heartbeat for the unborn child as required by Section 171.203 or
failed to perform a test to detect a fetal heartbeat.
The private enforcement provisions allow a private citizen to sue someone aiding and abetting a violation of that provision, meaning the provision that prohibits a Texas doctor from performing an abortion when there's a fetal heartbeat.
Full text of the bill available here: https://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB8/id/2395961
posted by sevensnowflakes at 10:18 AM on September 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
For what it's worth, I am a trans person who can at least theoretically become pregnant. When I moved to Texas in 2014, I did so assuming that I would not be able to obtain an abortion there and that if the situation ever arose, I would need to leave the state for care. I didn't game out the details, but I did think about where I had the network and who I would talk to in order to access abortion as a trans person. (The other minimum requirements for me moving there included leads on someone prescribing hormones and a gynecologist.) While the likelihood of me getting pregnant is way lower than for you (I don't have the type of sex you're presumably having, so I'm worrying about non-consensual scenarios), you are presumably using contraception. Make sure you're using it correctly.
This is not exactly answering the question you asked, but maybe it's useful to hear from someone who had the option to not go to Texas (it's not like any had ties to Texas or even wanted to move there; I got a job offer in an unexpected location) and consciously did a risk assessment around abortion access.
posted by hoyland at 10:32 AM on September 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
This is not exactly answering the question you asked, but maybe it's useful to hear from someone who had the option to not go to Texas (it's not like any had ties to Texas or even wanted to move there; I got a job offer in an unexpected location) and consciously did a risk assessment around abortion access.
posted by hoyland at 10:32 AM on September 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
Do you have to travel to him to have sex with him in Texas? Or can that be avoided? See reasons mentioned above regarding pandemic trapping people there.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:44 AM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:44 AM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
As I read the section below from the statute, if a TX resident helps someone obtain an abortion they could be sued, I see no mention that the abortion has to be performed in TX.
Sec. 171.208. CIVIL LIABILITY FOR VIOLATION OR AIDING OR
ABETTING VIOLATION. (a) Any person, other than an officer or
employee of a state or local governmental entity in this state, may
bring a civil action against any person who:
(1) performs or induces an abortion in violation of
this subchapter;
(2) knowingly engages in conduct that aids or abets
the performance or inducement of an abortion, including paying for
or reimbursing the costs of an abortion through insurance or
otherwise, if the abortion is performed or induced in violation of
this subchapter, regardless of whether the person knew or should
have known that the abortion would be performed or induced in
violation of this subchapter; or
(3) intends to engage in the conduct described by
Subdivision (1) or (2).
posted by tman99 at 10:45 AM on September 3, 2021
Sec. 171.208. CIVIL LIABILITY FOR VIOLATION OR AIDING OR
ABETTING VIOLATION. (a) Any person, other than an officer or
employee of a state or local governmental entity in this state, may
bring a civil action against any person who:
(1) performs or induces an abortion in violation of
this subchapter;
(2) knowingly engages in conduct that aids or abets
the performance or inducement of an abortion, including paying for
or reimbursing the costs of an abortion through insurance or
otherwise, if the abortion is performed or induced in violation of
this subchapter, regardless of whether the person knew or should
have known that the abortion would be performed or induced in
violation of this subchapter; or
(3) intends to engage in the conduct described by
Subdivision (1) or (2).
posted by tman99 at 10:45 AM on September 3, 2021
^ re the above, I agree that there's a lot of gray area but it would seem that the critical text is
"in violation of this subchapter;"
Since an abortion in Illinois or New York or what have you would not be in violation of a TX-specific law that should not apply. Whether that will be enough prevent frivolous reports and lawsuits that can make your boyfriend's life a fucking nightmare even if they're baseless, though...
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:07 AM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
"in violation of this subchapter;"
Since an abortion in Illinois or New York or what have you would not be in violation of a TX-specific law that should not apply. Whether that will be enough prevent frivolous reports and lawsuits that can make your boyfriend's life a fucking nightmare even if they're baseless, though...
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:07 AM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice, but my understanding of the new law is this:
The new law is contained in subchapter H of the Texas Health and Safety Code.
Sec. 171.201(4) defines "physician" for the subchapter as an individual licensed to practice medicine in Texas.
Sec. 171.204 outlines the actual new illegal act for the the subchapter: a "physician" may not perform or induce an abortion if a fetal heartbeat has been detected or if the physician failed to test for a fetal heartbeat.
Sec. 171.208 is the private enforcement/vigilante section for the subchapter. But it applies only to acts prohibited within the subchapter. Those acts are specified in 171.204. For 171.204 to apply, the abortion must have been be performed or induced by a "physician." And 171.201(4) defines a "physician" as an individual licensed to practice medicine in Texas.
So my read of the new law is that abortions performed by doctors licensed by other states -- as well as back-alley abortions performed by non-physicians -- are not covered by this new law. I assume, though, that there are other laws that already outlaw abortions not performed or induced by medical doctors.
posted by hhc5 at 11:30 AM on September 3, 2021
The new law is contained in subchapter H of the Texas Health and Safety Code.
Sec. 171.201(4) defines "physician" for the subchapter as an individual licensed to practice medicine in Texas.
Sec. 171.204 outlines the actual new illegal act for the the subchapter: a "physician" may not perform or induce an abortion if a fetal heartbeat has been detected or if the physician failed to test for a fetal heartbeat.
Sec. 171.208 is the private enforcement/vigilante section for the subchapter. But it applies only to acts prohibited within the subchapter. Those acts are specified in 171.204. For 171.204 to apply, the abortion must have been be performed or induced by a "physician." And 171.201(4) defines a "physician" as an individual licensed to practice medicine in Texas.
So my read of the new law is that abortions performed by doctors licensed by other states -- as well as back-alley abortions performed by non-physicians -- are not covered by this new law. I assume, though, that there are other laws that already outlaw abortions not performed or induced by medical doctors.
posted by hhc5 at 11:30 AM on September 3, 2021
at no time has interstate travel been prohibited because of COVID, nor could it realistically be. if you can physically get in a car and drive, or get on a plane and fly, then you can get yourself to whatever state has a doctor who can do it.
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:02 PM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:02 PM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
This doesn’t answer your question, but:
Does your Texas guy know how serious this issue is, to you and countless others?
Have you discussed it with him?
If he is the least bit blasé about it, I suggest you drop him like a hot potato; he will never have your best interests at heart.
posted by BostonTerrier at 4:46 PM on September 3, 2021 [10 favorites]
Does your Texas guy know how serious this issue is, to you and countless others?
Have you discussed it with him?
If he is the least bit blasé about it, I suggest you drop him like a hot potato; he will never have your best interests at heart.
posted by BostonTerrier at 4:46 PM on September 3, 2021 [10 favorites]
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posted by sevensnowflakes at 10:08 AM on September 3, 2021 [8 favorites]