Should I pay more rent/bills than my boyfriend?
August 6, 2021 1:14 AM Subscribe
In a few months I (F, 35) will move in with my boyfriend (M, 38). I make more more money than he does. Snowflake inside.
Him: Few savings but his family is doing good (ie he has a safety net), currently making 100k a year.
Me: Some savings, currently making 140K a year, but also paying for my mother's apartment, bills etc as she is poor. I bought her the apartment and have been paying $900 towards mortgage for it every month + other things she needs.
Because I grew up poor and with a deadbeat dad, an imperative has always been to look after myself financially first and not get taken advantage of. As a result, I want equity in my relationship but I also want to protect my future self.
No plans for kids as of now (might change).
I want to be fair to both of us. Should we split everything 50/50? Should we split everything proportionally, percentage wise, according to our salaries? Should I deduct my mortgage payment for my mom's apartment from my "base" salary before making calculations?
How would y'all navigate this and/or talk about it?
Him: Few savings but his family is doing good (ie he has a safety net), currently making 100k a year.
Me: Some savings, currently making 140K a year, but also paying for my mother's apartment, bills etc as she is poor. I bought her the apartment and have been paying $900 towards mortgage for it every month + other things she needs.
Because I grew up poor and with a deadbeat dad, an imperative has always been to look after myself financially first and not get taken advantage of. As a result, I want equity in my relationship but I also want to protect my future self.
No plans for kids as of now (might change).
I want to be fair to both of us. Should we split everything 50/50? Should we split everything proportionally, percentage wise, according to our salaries? Should I deduct my mortgage payment for my mom's apartment from my "base" salary before making calculations?
How would y'all navigate this and/or talk about it?
I also think 50/50 is fair. You might also want to consider whether moving in with your boyfriend will cause your unpaid labour (household management, cooking, cleaning) to increase, in which case you absolutely should not consider paying a larger share towards living expenses.
posted by Polychrome at 1:37 AM on August 6, 2021 [27 favorites]
posted by Polychrome at 1:37 AM on August 6, 2021 [27 favorites]
It sounds like you want permission to split 50/50.
In your situation, even as the lower-paid partner, that's what I'd expect. Situations in which a 50/50 split would stop feeling fair to me:
* If moving in together is worse financially for either partner than living alone, that's a problem!
* If one partner wants, and can comfortably pay for, a standard of living that the other isn't comfortable with matching.
* If one partner is putting significant and unequal non-financial investments into the relationship (e.g. carrying a child and putting career on hold for a while, or doing an unfair share of housework so other partner can work longer hours)
posted by Metasyntactic at 1:40 AM on August 6, 2021 [29 favorites]
In your situation, even as the lower-paid partner, that's what I'd expect. Situations in which a 50/50 split would stop feeling fair to me:
* If moving in together is worse financially for either partner than living alone, that's a problem!
* If one partner wants, and can comfortably pay for, a standard of living that the other isn't comfortable with matching.
* If one partner is putting significant and unequal non-financial investments into the relationship (e.g. carrying a child and putting career on hold for a while, or doing an unfair share of housework so other partner can work longer hours)
posted by Metasyntactic at 1:40 AM on August 6, 2021 [29 favorites]
I'd deduct the cost of supporting your mother, since were he paying child support, you'd deduct that before calculating. I'd then calculate proportionally.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:06 AM on August 6, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 2:06 AM on August 6, 2021 [14 favorites]
Proportionally.
If that doesn't work, re-think the premises. (For example, are you helping your mother as a team, or an individual? Does moving in together actually benefit you both?) But it's a really good starting point at which nobody already feels they're getting screwed.
posted by inexorably_forward at 3:17 AM on August 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
If that doesn't work, re-think the premises. (For example, are you helping your mother as a team, or an individual? Does moving in together actually benefit you both?) But it's a really good starting point at which nobody already feels they're getting screwed.
posted by inexorably_forward at 3:17 AM on August 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
Eventually, probably yes. But: It sounds like either of your salaries is enough to live comfortably and save on, in your area? And you're not engaged or expecting or already living together? I might go 50/50 split for simplicity right now, and explicitly commit to reevaluate and think about proportional-maybe-with-exclusions next year when you decide whether you're re-upping the lease.
50/50 forever is a trap, but 50/50 as a temporary state when you're transitioning towards long term partnership and still figuring things out, and your earning power is pretty close... that's not so bad.
Use the first year to start figuring out what counts as common bills too, there's lots of edge cases.(Takeout? Gas for a road trip together? Day to day gas? Car insurance? Eating out with your parents? Taking care of your parents? Gifts? Cleaning service?)
posted by february at 3:22 AM on August 6, 2021 [10 favorites]
50/50 forever is a trap, but 50/50 as a temporary state when you're transitioning towards long term partnership and still figuring things out, and your earning power is pretty close... that's not so bad.
Use the first year to start figuring out what counts as common bills too, there's lots of edge cases.(Takeout? Gas for a road trip together? Day to day gas? Car insurance? Eating out with your parents? Taking care of your parents? Gifts? Cleaning service?)
posted by february at 3:22 AM on August 6, 2021 [10 favorites]
50/50 split.
The person with the better financial condition can always add some perks -- cable and internet service, lawn care, etc. Go to a nice restaurant once a month. Pay for membership to the zoo. Pick a bonus that is no hardship if it is canceled.
Cherry picking a perfect split of expenses based on income and other factors is tedious. Who determines what is worthy of consideration? If one person gets a bonus or fewer billable hours, what then?
Keep it simple.
posted by TrishaU at 3:41 AM on August 6, 2021 [11 favorites]
The person with the better financial condition can always add some perks -- cable and internet service, lawn care, etc. Go to a nice restaurant once a month. Pay for membership to the zoo. Pick a bonus that is no hardship if it is canceled.
Cherry picking a perfect split of expenses based on income and other factors is tedious. Who determines what is worthy of consideration? If one person gets a bonus or fewer billable hours, what then?
Keep it simple.
posted by TrishaU at 3:41 AM on August 6, 2021 [11 favorites]
I'd deduct the cost of supporting your mother, since were he paying child support, you'd deduct that before calculating. I'd then calculate proportionally.
The analogy does not fit well here because a big part of the support payments are going to an asset that presumably is either already in the OP's name or will revert to them at some point.
posted by Mitheral at 3:46 AM on August 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
The analogy does not fit well here because a big part of the support payments are going to an asset that presumably is either already in the OP's name or will revert to them at some point.
posted by Mitheral at 3:46 AM on August 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
I'd do a 50-50 split for a year as suggested above, both to get used to the idea of sharing expenses and figuring out what your actual overall monthly lifestyle cost is. Should your relationship deepen and you want to revisit this arrangement, you can certainly discuss going proportional (or even, if you want to build wealth / save for a major expense, go to living on one salary and saving the other, of course knowing nothing about your situation. I only recommend since both of you are earning good money).
As always, open, transparent discussion needs to take place at every step and there should be a clear commitment from both of you to the particulars of the arrangement. You can just scroll through Ask Metafilter archives for many examples of what happens when you don't do that. Good luck!
posted by fortitude25 at 4:17 AM on August 6, 2021 [2 favorites]
As always, open, transparent discussion needs to take place at every step and there should be a clear commitment from both of you to the particulars of the arrangement. You can just scroll through Ask Metafilter archives for many examples of what happens when you don't do that. Good luck!
posted by fortitude25 at 4:17 AM on August 6, 2021 [2 favorites]
At your income levels it is entirely possible to have a lifestyle that both of you can afford to split 50/50 while still handling your individual priorities so I think it makes sense to start with that and move towards combining your finances as your long term goals start to align.
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 5:36 AM on August 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 5:36 AM on August 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
I’d go 50/50. My partner earns more than me and we’ve been living together for nearly 20 years, splitting all joint costs 50/50, and that seems fair to me.
Personally, I think it’d make sense to split differently if the difference in income was much larger than ours or yours, assuming the lower income person wasn’t just sitting around doing nothing.
I think there’s a danger that if you split differently, you end up having to decide exactly what does and doesn’t count, and one person resenting things, or endless disagreements arising.
But each person and couple is different, and comfortable with different set-ups. Some couples put both of their incomes directly into a single joint bank account, which I’d be too much of a control freak to cope with: we put the same amount each into a joint account each month, to cover joint costs. Everyone’s different, so whatever you both feel most honestly comfortable with.
posted by fabius at 5:56 AM on August 6, 2021
Personally, I think it’d make sense to split differently if the difference in income was much larger than ours or yours, assuming the lower income person wasn’t just sitting around doing nothing.
I think there’s a danger that if you split differently, you end up having to decide exactly what does and doesn’t count, and one person resenting things, or endless disagreements arising.
But each person and couple is different, and comfortable with different set-ups. Some couples put both of their incomes directly into a single joint bank account, which I’d be too much of a control freak to cope with: we put the same amount each into a joint account each month, to cover joint costs. Everyone’s different, so whatever you both feel most honestly comfortable with.
posted by fabius at 5:56 AM on August 6, 2021
I assume if OP is supporting their mom, the mom may not be gaining any assets; the OP mentioned poverty so it probably makes sense to treat the mom as a dependent for these purposes.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 6:11 AM on August 6, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 6:11 AM on August 6, 2021 [4 favorites]
I usually advocate proportionality, but in this case you've got a dependent, and you both seem pretty comfortable so I think maybe spend six months or so at a 50/50 split with an agreement to check back in with each other then and see how things feel. In your shoes it might be something more like "all the basics are split 50/50 but I pay for some extras - new furniture we need when we move in together, or more of the costs of a vacation, or a house cleaner or our season membership to some cultural thing we both like." (Or, depending how you two roll personality-wise, you might find that what works for you is less "everything 50/50" and more "you pay the rent, I'll pay the utilities, and it all more or less evens out without anyone having to go through and do exact calculations" - that's what worked in my relationship when we were both working, but YMMV.)
I suspect you'll find that if your relationship goes on long enough, you'll end up flipping roles a few times over who's making more / who has which big-ticket expenses, so it's a lot more important that you get into a good groove for talking about and revisiting this stuff, than it is that you make the perfect decision right away. Try something, agree to come back and talk about it again once you've seen how that thing works, and tweak it until you're both comfortable that you have a fair and workable arrangement.
posted by Stacey at 6:23 AM on August 6, 2021 [7 favorites]
I suspect you'll find that if your relationship goes on long enough, you'll end up flipping roles a few times over who's making more / who has which big-ticket expenses, so it's a lot more important that you get into a good groove for talking about and revisiting this stuff, than it is that you make the perfect decision right away. Try something, agree to come back and talk about it again once you've seen how that thing works, and tweak it until you're both comfortable that you have a fair and workable arrangement.
posted by Stacey at 6:23 AM on August 6, 2021 [7 favorites]
50/50. Has he asked for you to pay more or is it your idea because if he hasn't asked I would just assume 50/50 without question (and if he has then to me that would be a red flag although ymmv).
posted by hazyjane at 6:38 AM on August 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by hazyjane at 6:38 AM on August 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
I would agree with the majority above that at your income levels, 50/50 isn't an unfair burden on anyone, but be prepared to revisit this throughout the years. You're spending enough taking care of your mother that it's not like you're socking away tons and tons of money that he can't benefit from, and he's earning enough that it's doubtful he is scraping by.
FWIW I also grew up poor and have that same inner conflict between "must protect myself" and "must take care of everyone else." It makes all of the money conversations very hard, so if there's room for a financial counselor or just a regular counselor somewhere in your budget, I would suggest having a few planning sessions with you and your partner! They can take the emotion out of it and make practical, equitable arrangements.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:57 AM on August 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
FWIW I also grew up poor and have that same inner conflict between "must protect myself" and "must take care of everyone else." It makes all of the money conversations very hard, so if there's room for a financial counselor or just a regular counselor somewhere in your budget, I would suggest having a few planning sessions with you and your partner! They can take the emotion out of it and make practical, equitable arrangements.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:57 AM on August 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
From what you wrote, 50/50 or close to it sounds fair. If you were to deduct the money you spend to support your mother, you would end up very close to the 50/50 situation anyway.
But not only should you be prepared to revisit the discussion in upcoming years (especially as salaries go up and down), you should also have conversations to establish that he understands and supports you helping your mother in this way over the long term. I've seen several cases where once people are living together and have somewhat conjoined finances, all of a sudden the other partner sees the money going to mom as "our money" and doesn't like it.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:06 AM on August 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
But not only should you be prepared to revisit the discussion in upcoming years (especially as salaries go up and down), you should also have conversations to establish that he understands and supports you helping your mother in this way over the long term. I've seen several cases where once people are living together and have somewhat conjoined finances, all of a sudden the other partner sees the money going to mom as "our money" and doesn't like it.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:06 AM on August 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
Given that:
-You are only just moving in together
-You are both making good incomes and seen in that context, the disparity between incomes is not disproportionate
-The place you are moving in together is "appropriate" to both of your incomes i.e. he is not being stretched to live beyond his means
-Neither of you is currently sacrificing any income or undertaking additional labour as part of the partnership
50:50 seems reasonable and natural.
FWIW, my wife and I split everything including our mortgage payments 50:50 and our only joint account is a transit point where shared bills are auto-paid from. I don't think we ever even discussed doing it any other way. When we have children, this arrangement will almost certainly be revisited.
posted by atrazine at 7:09 AM on August 6, 2021 [2 favorites]
-You are only just moving in together
-You are both making good incomes and seen in that context, the disparity between incomes is not disproportionate
-The place you are moving in together is "appropriate" to both of your incomes i.e. he is not being stretched to live beyond his means
-Neither of you is currently sacrificing any income or undertaking additional labour as part of the partnership
50:50 seems reasonable and natural.
FWIW, my wife and I split everything including our mortgage payments 50:50 and our only joint account is a transit point where shared bills are auto-paid from. I don't think we ever even discussed doing it any other way. When we have children, this arrangement will almost certainly be revisited.
posted by atrazine at 7:09 AM on August 6, 2021 [2 favorites]
50/50 + perks.
Being someone who grew up lower middle class, I agree with most of what is shared above. You both have sufficient income to expect an even split, with either of you (more-so you) making choices on when to be generous to each other and covering perks like dining, entertainment, etc.
I did this with my live-in partners until I was sure that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with one of them (my current wife,) and we decided to have children. Since we merged our DNA I figured it was time to merge finances. In my case I've been fortunate, as my income allowed her to stop working. While we make sacrifices that our dual income friends don't (fewer vacations & restaurants,) we are okay with that; the benefits of the lifestyle and level of attention our children get with their mother being a homemaker is more important to us.
Such a traditional arrangement may come in time, really requires you to be all-in on the relationship, and isn't for everyone.
posted by nandaro at 7:31 AM on August 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
Being someone who grew up lower middle class, I agree with most of what is shared above. You both have sufficient income to expect an even split, with either of you (more-so you) making choices on when to be generous to each other and covering perks like dining, entertainment, etc.
I did this with my live-in partners until I was sure that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with one of them (my current wife,) and we decided to have children. Since we merged our DNA I figured it was time to merge finances. In my case I've been fortunate, as my income allowed her to stop working. While we make sacrifices that our dual income friends don't (fewer vacations & restaurants,) we are okay with that; the benefits of the lifestyle and level of attention our children get with their mother being a homemaker is more important to us.
Such a traditional arrangement may come in time, really requires you to be all-in on the relationship, and isn't for everyone.
posted by nandaro at 7:31 AM on August 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
I would split it proportionately if I intended this to be a permanent partnership because I think it is a good precedent to set. If you decide to split expenses 50:50, then I think it is better to base your joint expenses on double the income of the lower paid person, so they are not overstretching themselves just because you earn more.
posted by plonkee at 7:46 AM on August 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by plonkee at 7:46 AM on August 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
50/50
If the absolute income was (much) lower, or your monthly rent exceeds $6000/mo at your given incomes then the equation would be different.
If split rent </= 33% gross income each, then 50/50.
posted by porpoise at 7:47 AM on August 6, 2021
If the absolute income was (much) lower, or your monthly rent exceeds $6000/mo at your given incomes then the equation would be different.
If split rent </= 33% gross income each, then 50/50.
posted by porpoise at 7:47 AM on August 6, 2021
If I were your boyfriend, I'd offer to pay more. Yes your income is higher, but you are also taking care of your mother and dealing with the stress that goes along with that. In particular it's unclear to me if 50/50 is exactly fair for you, though I think it's your boyfriend's responsibility to act on this. This doesn't seem like a popular opinion, and it seems like no matter what decision you make in the end, you'll be fine. But I just wanted to share my perspective.
posted by chernoffhoeffding at 8:42 AM on August 6, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by chernoffhoeffding at 8:42 AM on August 6, 2021 [2 favorites]
50:50 split of household expenses and a household budget that fits into the smaller income comfortably is a great place to start, IME. You can revisit together as circumstances change.
posted by clew at 9:07 AM on August 6, 2021
posted by clew at 9:07 AM on August 6, 2021
I don't think you should deduct what you pay towards your mom's apartment mortgage because presumably you'll be paying off and inheriting the apartment, that's a significant asset you're building. I would look into whether your boyfriend will have a stake in that asset if you cohabitate into the future or have kids (just something to consider).
posted by lafemma at 9:08 AM on August 6, 2021
posted by lafemma at 9:08 AM on August 6, 2021
Meta suggestion -- do you happen to be a bit anxious talking about money in relationships (hi) such that this conversation looks attractive?
You: how about 50-50 does that seem cool
Him: yeah cool
You: cool
You: ok and we could talk more about it later too
The 50-50 option is nice and simple, it doesn't need follow-on discussion about details like deducting your support for your mother. I'm here to suggest deliberately having that conversation for its own sake. Talk all around the various options, naming and acting your concerns for fairness and for self-protection, and learning his concerns. All the options are reasonable IMO so the conversation isn't expected to be too fraught.
One person grew up with money scarce and the other didn't, you'd know better than I how those conversations have gone in your past, but from what I've seen, any avoidance is a thread to follow, before money is scarce and fairness is hard.
posted by away for regrooving at 9:20 AM on August 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
You: how about 50-50 does that seem cool
Him: yeah cool
You: cool
You: ok and we could talk more about it later too
The 50-50 option is nice and simple, it doesn't need follow-on discussion about details like deducting your support for your mother. I'm here to suggest deliberately having that conversation for its own sake. Talk all around the various options, naming and acting your concerns for fairness and for self-protection, and learning his concerns. All the options are reasonable IMO so the conversation isn't expected to be too fraught.
One person grew up with money scarce and the other didn't, you'd know better than I how those conversations have gone in your past, but from what I've seen, any avoidance is a thread to follow, before money is scarce and fairness is hard.
posted by away for regrooving at 9:20 AM on August 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
I'd want to split it 50/50 in order to feel equally entitled to the space with all it's perks and responsibilities. If you needed and extra room for a studio or office, then I could see being ok with proportionate rent.
posted by bonobothegreat at 9:28 AM on August 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by bonobothegreat at 9:28 AM on August 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think a 50/50 split is fair, but I think you might want to make sure you and bf are on the same page* regarding financial matters more generally.
*Between you and your bf growing up under different economic situations, and the fact that your bf has "few savings" despite a $100k/ year salary, it seems possible that there is a potential mismatch about your respective approach to finances. I can envision a situation where someone who came from family money may have different preferences regarding eating out and vacations, for example, than someone who didn't.
posted by oceano at 9:35 AM on August 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
*Between you and your bf growing up under different economic situations, and the fact that your bf has "few savings" despite a $100k/ year salary, it seems possible that there is a potential mismatch about your respective approach to finances. I can envision a situation where someone who came from family money may have different preferences regarding eating out and vacations, for example, than someone who didn't.
posted by oceano at 9:35 AM on August 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
I'd deduct the proportion of your mom's support that is not going to an asset (e.g. the mortgage payments), then consider the amount of space you will be needing (e.g. if one of you needs an office for exclusive use, that should be factored in) and at that point, split proportionally.
There's also the emotional consideration of how each of you will feel about the space if there is a big difference in your contributions.
Based on what you write here, my guess is that you will probably end up at something like a 50/50 split in the end.
posted by rpfields at 9:38 AM on August 6, 2021
There's also the emotional consideration of how each of you will feel about the space if there is a big difference in your contributions.
Based on what you write here, my guess is that you will probably end up at something like a 50/50 split in the end.
posted by rpfields at 9:38 AM on August 6, 2021
I started to write out what my husband and I do, but then I started to feel weird about it because it sounds wildly casual for two people who work in financial services (essentially we are firmly proportional with our mortgage and utilities but flexible on everything else, and maintain separate finances). So instead I'll share that we talk about our finances fairly often to check in that neither person is overburdened -- at least once a year, but periodically around any big purchases, changes to income, that sort of thing.
I (a woman) grew up extremely poor, and used to have a lot of consumer debt, was financially abused prior to our relationship, and am the lower earner between us. My husband has a different background but we are very much aligned on our financial perspectives, and I think it is at least partly because we have always communicated openly and honestly about money.
Learning to be able to talk about money without my emotions being involved was a challenge at first, especially when I was still building my way up to a "decent" salary and paying off debt. But being able to have that conversation not just once, but as often as necessary has been really important in keeping us on the same page for the last ten years.
posted by sm1tten at 9:59 AM on August 6, 2021 [8 favorites]
I (a woman) grew up extremely poor, and used to have a lot of consumer debt, was financially abused prior to our relationship, and am the lower earner between us. My husband has a different background but we are very much aligned on our financial perspectives, and I think it is at least partly because we have always communicated openly and honestly about money.
Learning to be able to talk about money without my emotions being involved was a challenge at first, especially when I was still building my way up to a "decent" salary and paying off debt. But being able to have that conversation not just once, but as often as necessary has been really important in keeping us on the same page for the last ten years.
posted by sm1tten at 9:59 AM on August 6, 2021 [8 favorites]
I'm curious if when you say "moving in with your boyfriend" you mean moving into the apartment that he already lives in and pays full rent on, or moving into a new apartment that's more expensive for both of you. To me, that makes a difference.
posted by pinochiette at 10:57 AM on August 6, 2021
posted by pinochiette at 10:57 AM on August 6, 2021
When my girlfriend (now wife) and I moved in together with finances not wildly dissimilar from yours (except the parent's apartment), we wound up with splitting the rent proportionally, but the non-rent household expenses 50/50, and each time we've revisited it over the years, it's still felt fair.
We are fortunate that we can keep our finances and home labour accounts separately, and come up with distributions of each that feel fair, rather than trying to indirectly pay for someone's labour -- if you can, I think this is better than trying to have one person pay more than their share because the other person works more than their share.
But honestly, this is one of those things that is much more about the process, and much less about the outcome.
What's important is that you can both talk -- regularly -- in ways that are kind and mutually understandable about what resources and commitments you have, what feels fair to each of you, what you want to handle together and what you want to keep handling on your own. An open, respectful dialogue that leads to 60/40 or even 80/20 is better than winding up at 50/50 but not really talking about it.
posted by Superilla at 11:10 AM on August 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
We are fortunate that we can keep our finances and home labour accounts separately, and come up with distributions of each that feel fair, rather than trying to indirectly pay for someone's labour -- if you can, I think this is better than trying to have one person pay more than their share because the other person works more than their share.
But honestly, this is one of those things that is much more about the process, and much less about the outcome.
What's important is that you can both talk -- regularly -- in ways that are kind and mutually understandable about what resources and commitments you have, what feels fair to each of you, what you want to handle together and what you want to keep handling on your own. An open, respectful dialogue that leads to 60/40 or even 80/20 is better than winding up at 50/50 but not really talking about it.
posted by Superilla at 11:10 AM on August 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
Expense sharing among partners is an emotional issue not an objective one. The best answer is the one that you and your boyfriend agree on after an honest discussion. You have your view about what would be fair; he no doubt has his. It matters more that you talk and agree than what the exact split ends up being. You may well come out at 50/50. But talk it out and decide mutually.
Freely-given consent is as important in financial affairs as it is in sexual relationships.
posted by mono blanco at 11:50 AM on August 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
Freely-given consent is as important in financial affairs as it is in sexual relationships.
posted by mono blanco at 11:50 AM on August 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
Another vote for 50/50 + perks, but that ultimately the correct answer is the one that works for both of you. People have wildly different approaches to money within relationships, and while some are exploitative, there's a fair range that's perfectly fine. But especially in the early stage of a relationship (which I assume is true for you since you're just about to move in together), it's fine start out this way - you can always change your financial arrangement later if/when you buy a house together, get married, have kids, etc.
My boyfriend and I have a similar income difference (except I make less than 1/3 of your salary and he makes less than 1/3 of your boyfriend's salary), and I pay somewhat more in rent since I have a home office, but otherwise we're 50/50 on all expenses. But I occasionally pay for fancy meals, or if I want a home decor item that is maybe a bit over his budget, I just buy it myself. This works since we both are living the same standard of living, which he'd be living regardless of whether he was dating me.
In terms of "how to talk about it," this shouldn't be hard - before moving in together, it's generally good to have a conversation about how you'll split cleaning duties, what are shared expenses, whether you'll be getting a joint credit card, etc. How you'll be splitting costs should be part of this conversation.
posted by coffeecat at 12:06 PM on August 6, 2021
My boyfriend and I have a similar income difference (except I make less than 1/3 of your salary and he makes less than 1/3 of your boyfriend's salary), and I pay somewhat more in rent since I have a home office, but otherwise we're 50/50 on all expenses. But I occasionally pay for fancy meals, or if I want a home decor item that is maybe a bit over his budget, I just buy it myself. This works since we both are living the same standard of living, which he'd be living regardless of whether he was dating me.
In terms of "how to talk about it," this shouldn't be hard - before moving in together, it's generally good to have a conversation about how you'll split cleaning duties, what are shared expenses, whether you'll be getting a joint credit card, etc. How you'll be splitting costs should be part of this conversation.
posted by coffeecat at 12:06 PM on August 6, 2021
I understood the issue is that you just don't know which split is fair, but also you don't know which one your partner might think is fair. I've read all the comments, and while I lean towards an equal split, I am not convinced, perhaps an equitable split would be better. I don't know.
I do know how to talk about it though. I hold a great deal of anxiety about finances. It would not be enough for me to just tell that to someone, it is something they would have to fully understand. So when I do or say something that doesn't look normal or rational, my thinking is understood. And it's not constrained to cash money, but things of value, things like food.
For example, a 50/50 split on $$ would not address my issues around left overs and food waste. Which I still have. And it's not that I am incapable of change, I encourage my children to try new food, and emphasis stoping when they feel full. So we are anti-clean plate club. We generally have an abundance of food, and some gets thrown out and that is ok. But my gut reaction when a bunch of pandemic panic buys got thrown out? I get tight feeling and sometimes I am not able to release it and I burden others with nagging. Or just a look even. It's poison.
So I would talk about the why. Why you have an imperative about getting taken advantage of. I would take the things that give you the most anxiety, the shame, the burning face embarrassment, sit down and lay out a few actual examples and really talk about it. Start with answering why it is so important to you for this to be fair. I think you need to make your background, your relationship with your father, and the separate one with your mother fully understood. Your partner might not have that atomized view of things- it's just not the family universe they exist in.
Because your partner might not be thinking like this at all, because this is a very formal and rigid way to think about sharing a house, sharing finances, become a single family unit. I'm not saying he shouldn't think like this, he's just had the privilege of not needing to. And maybe it's the right wasy to think about it right now, but what about next year, or five?
If I imagine your situation as mine, right now, it would be in terms of how we support this parent who needs it, and how we need to fix their dishwasher. That's not the language you are using right now, and maybe it never will be. But I would encourage you to try and think about how and if if you want that sort of relationship, how that can change, and then how you communicate your needs and plans.
posted by zenon at 12:35 PM on August 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
I do know how to talk about it though. I hold a great deal of anxiety about finances. It would not be enough for me to just tell that to someone, it is something they would have to fully understand. So when I do or say something that doesn't look normal or rational, my thinking is understood. And it's not constrained to cash money, but things of value, things like food.
For example, a 50/50 split on $$ would not address my issues around left overs and food waste. Which I still have. And it's not that I am incapable of change, I encourage my children to try new food, and emphasis stoping when they feel full. So we are anti-clean plate club. We generally have an abundance of food, and some gets thrown out and that is ok. But my gut reaction when a bunch of pandemic panic buys got thrown out? I get tight feeling and sometimes I am not able to release it and I burden others with nagging. Or just a look even. It's poison.
So I would talk about the why. Why you have an imperative about getting taken advantage of. I would take the things that give you the most anxiety, the shame, the burning face embarrassment, sit down and lay out a few actual examples and really talk about it. Start with answering why it is so important to you for this to be fair. I think you need to make your background, your relationship with your father, and the separate one with your mother fully understood. Your partner might not have that atomized view of things- it's just not the family universe they exist in.
Because your partner might not be thinking like this at all, because this is a very formal and rigid way to think about sharing a house, sharing finances, become a single family unit. I'm not saying he shouldn't think like this, he's just had the privilege of not needing to. And maybe it's the right wasy to think about it right now, but what about next year, or five?
If I imagine your situation as mine, right now, it would be in terms of how we support this parent who needs it, and how we need to fix their dishwasher. That's not the language you are using right now, and maybe it never will be. But I would encourage you to try and think about how and if if you want that sort of relationship, how that can change, and then how you communicate your needs and plans.
posted by zenon at 12:35 PM on August 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
This internet stranger votes for a 50/50 split to start out with, and an agreement to have a bi-yearly financial check up meeting (mark a date on a calander so it won't be forgotten) to discuss household expenses and financial arrangements. If either of you is really adverse to discussing money, this is going to feel like a miserable chore for awhile, but it's incredibly beneficial and very good adulting.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 1:07 PM on August 6, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 1:07 PM on August 6, 2021 [2 favorites]
What does your boyfriend think is fair? You two are the parties that will need to live with the arrangement, and money issues are great at causing resentful feelings to build that can destroy relationships, so it sounds like you'll want to hash that out now. I personally feel like 50/50 is a fair split for you, and I'd probably lead with that as my offer and go from there. "How do you want to split rent? Does 50/50 sound okay?" is probably how I'd approach this as it gives you a default position but signals flexibility.
Presumably he's already paying 100% of the rent already (unless you're both moving to a new, more expensive apartment? It sounded like that wasn't the case), so I feel like the equability argument is kinda weird; he can afford it already, and you paying half should allow him to build up savings. Unless you mean that b/c you're supporting your mom you should pay less? TBH, that still feels weird to me and unless he's charitably offering to pay a larger share, I would feel uncomfortable making that sort of argument, as you're both using the apartment as your primary residence and to me it makes sense for both of you to be paying your fair share of it unless you both agree to a different proportioning.
posted by Aleyn at 1:21 PM on August 6, 2021
Presumably he's already paying 100% of the rent already (unless you're both moving to a new, more expensive apartment? It sounded like that wasn't the case), so I feel like the equability argument is kinda weird; he can afford it already, and you paying half should allow him to build up savings. Unless you mean that b/c you're supporting your mom you should pay less? TBH, that still feels weird to me and unless he's charitably offering to pay a larger share, I would feel uncomfortable making that sort of argument, as you're both using the apartment as your primary residence and to me it makes sense for both of you to be paying your fair share of it unless you both agree to a different proportioning.
posted by Aleyn at 1:21 PM on August 6, 2021
I think Zenon is hitting on some really important points, the most pressing being that how we spend money is often more intensely connected to our sense of emotional well being than any of us acknowledge. When it comes to how you balance spending in a relationship, it matters less that it's perfectly equitable to external parties, and more that it accounts for both of your needs, whatever they are, so you each feel respected, honored and secure in your partnership. Depending on your backgrounds and values, the thing that works might not make sense to people who aren't you two.
Providing my situation as an example. I moved into my partner's home, which is owns with an active mortgage. He bought it at the bottom of the market, so the mortgage is wildly affordable - more than 50% less expensive than my last apartment which I rented alone. In addition, I make over double his earnings. Despite that, he insisted that I pay less than half the mortgage cost and do not pay any utilities. Now, if it had been just me deciding, I probably would pay a bit more - at least some utilities cost - because for me it would be negligible, and it seems fair since I still come out so far ahead. In fact, I am currently sending him more money than he has requested to help cover the electric bill due to the high cost of summer AC use, which he has begrudgingly allowed after I pushed him a little because sometimes I feel like I'm taking advantage of him paying more when I could afford more than he can. However, he requested this scenario because it didn't feel right to him to accept more from me because it's his financial asset, and he's not wrong about that. So this is where we've landed, with the knowledge that eventually he'll likely roll equity from this house into something we own jointly, at which point it's kind of all a wash.
Now, one of my challenges in this situation is because he is so staunchly attached to not taking my money to put toward his real estate assets, I can't impact anything permanent in our home. Paint and furniture is fine, and he'll ask my opinion on what new roof to put on and so forth, but I don't get to redo the floors or the kitchen on my schedule despite having the means to do it. I have discovered that this is a bit triggering for me because I grew up in a hoarder household where I didn't feel in control of my space ever, so making my home feel nice and like me is very healing for me. I don't think I really understood that going in, but it's something we've both figured out together, and he now works on being sensitive to the ways that his financial outlook is actually somewhat hard on me, since I'd gladly lose money to just feel comfy. As of now, we're sticking to the low spends for me because objectively it's an honorable position, but I think it's been illuminating for both of us to realize how much our perspectives about money are not just about money.
All this to say, find out what you both need to feel right in this partnership. My guess is you have a breakout that feels fair to you, and I would definitely recommend being forthcoming about that with your partner. I also think it would be wise to try to identify what may make you feel hurt if he feels differently. Like, if he wants you to pay proportionally because you earn more, will that be painful? If I had a dependent parent that I was paying for, I would likely feel a bit unseen that they didn't account for that. Yes, that apartment will be an asset eventually, but for now it's not. Something to work out for yourself and be prepared for!
posted by amycup at 2:11 PM on August 6, 2021 [4 favorites]
Providing my situation as an example. I moved into my partner's home, which is owns with an active mortgage. He bought it at the bottom of the market, so the mortgage is wildly affordable - more than 50% less expensive than my last apartment which I rented alone. In addition, I make over double his earnings. Despite that, he insisted that I pay less than half the mortgage cost and do not pay any utilities. Now, if it had been just me deciding, I probably would pay a bit more - at least some utilities cost - because for me it would be negligible, and it seems fair since I still come out so far ahead. In fact, I am currently sending him more money than he has requested to help cover the electric bill due to the high cost of summer AC use, which he has begrudgingly allowed after I pushed him a little because sometimes I feel like I'm taking advantage of him paying more when I could afford more than he can. However, he requested this scenario because it didn't feel right to him to accept more from me because it's his financial asset, and he's not wrong about that. So this is where we've landed, with the knowledge that eventually he'll likely roll equity from this house into something we own jointly, at which point it's kind of all a wash.
Now, one of my challenges in this situation is because he is so staunchly attached to not taking my money to put toward his real estate assets, I can't impact anything permanent in our home. Paint and furniture is fine, and he'll ask my opinion on what new roof to put on and so forth, but I don't get to redo the floors or the kitchen on my schedule despite having the means to do it. I have discovered that this is a bit triggering for me because I grew up in a hoarder household where I didn't feel in control of my space ever, so making my home feel nice and like me is very healing for me. I don't think I really understood that going in, but it's something we've both figured out together, and he now works on being sensitive to the ways that his financial outlook is actually somewhat hard on me, since I'd gladly lose money to just feel comfy. As of now, we're sticking to the low spends for me because objectively it's an honorable position, but I think it's been illuminating for both of us to realize how much our perspectives about money are not just about money.
All this to say, find out what you both need to feel right in this partnership. My guess is you have a breakout that feels fair to you, and I would definitely recommend being forthcoming about that with your partner. I also think it would be wise to try to identify what may make you feel hurt if he feels differently. Like, if he wants you to pay proportionally because you earn more, will that be painful? If I had a dependent parent that I was paying for, I would likely feel a bit unseen that they didn't account for that. Yes, that apartment will be an asset eventually, but for now it's not. Something to work out for yourself and be prepared for!
posted by amycup at 2:11 PM on August 6, 2021 [4 favorites]
50/50 seems fine, but you would be gaining equity on your house from his portion of the payment, so if you guys split he gets nothing and you got some of your house paid for by him. Which is how it would be if you got a roommate.
The way I see it though if I were you is I wouldn't feel bad about it if *he* split with *you*. If you got married then I guess the house would be half his anyway, depending on local laws. If *you* decided to break up with him then yes, it feels a little unfair in the end, but it's not the worst thing, if he was going to just pay rent somewhere during all this time anyway. Now if he was considering buying but is passing up the opportunity to live with you, you can think about it more how you want to do this.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 3:08 PM on August 6, 2021
The way I see it though if I were you is I wouldn't feel bad about it if *he* split with *you*. If you got married then I guess the house would be half his anyway, depending on local laws. If *you* decided to break up with him then yes, it feels a little unfair in the end, but it's not the worst thing, if he was going to just pay rent somewhere during all this time anyway. Now if he was considering buying but is passing up the opportunity to live with you, you can think about it more how you want to do this.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 3:08 PM on August 6, 2021
This is a topic on which I know I am a total crank, but! I want to advocate for shared finances. If you trust someone enough to live with them, you are a team, and you should be making financial decisions together. If you or they balk at that, then I don't think you should live together. The biggest relationship regrets I have are from cases where the focus was more on fair finances than team finances — eventually other cracks in values appeared, but the weirdness around money was the first indicator, and I always was the one who lost out.
Personally, the feeling of always deciding what's "fair" and splitting things up just makes me want to die. Who pays for dinner? Who cares! The card goes to the same place. We do get allowances out of the main pot for our hobbies (I don't even want to hear about the costs or reasons to buy camera lenses nor do I want to advocate for the stupid shit I want), but that comes after our shared commitment to one another.
Anyways, I know this is not the popular route, but I wanted to float it as a consideration to see if maybe it resonates for you.
posted by dame at 2:46 AM on August 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
Personally, the feeling of always deciding what's "fair" and splitting things up just makes me want to die. Who pays for dinner? Who cares! The card goes to the same place. We do get allowances out of the main pot for our hobbies (I don't even want to hear about the costs or reasons to buy camera lenses nor do I want to advocate for the stupid shit I want), but that comes after our shared commitment to one another.
Anyways, I know this is not the popular route, but I wanted to float it as a consideration to see if maybe it resonates for you.
posted by dame at 2:46 AM on August 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
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Also as you say, once you get into a proportional split you have to think about what can and can't be excluded from each person's income and at that point you're getting towards fully combined finances, which may be a step further than you both want to go right now.
If he thinks that's unfair he can always say so, but I think you're not being unreasonable to make 50/50 the starting point of the discussion.
posted by crocomancer at 1:26 AM on August 6, 2021 [32 favorites]