Sullen 13-Year Old
August 3, 2021 12:14 PM Subscribe
I have a 13 year old relative staying with me for a few days. I'm wondering whether I should be concerned about his affect.
By affect, I mean: The outward display of one's emotional state.
Ninety percent of the time he is sullen, negative, critical and condescending toward me, and prefers to spend as much time as possible on his Nintendo Switch. I forced him to play badminton today and he seemed to perk up a bit while we played, but afterward he went back to his sullenness and condescension. I make sure to respond to his attitude in an upbeat manner, but a couple of times it got so bad that I told him him that he hurt my feelings, and I told him he is welcome to talk to me about anything that is bothering him. I raised a son, and my son and I didn't have this problem; he was good about discussing his feelings with me so that we could come up with a solution to whatever was bothering him. Not so with this relative. I have asked him a few times if he was enjoying his stay with me (I didn't get an answer to that) and let him know that it is okay if he would like to go home sooner than planned. Each time, he said he wants to stay, which surprised me, since he seems so unhappy here. This has been an extremely difficult visit, as I love him very much and he just seems so terribly unhappy. He used to be such an enthusiastic, upbeat, happy kid. Should I be concerned, or is this fairly normal behavior that will pass?
By affect, I mean: The outward display of one's emotional state.
Ninety percent of the time he is sullen, negative, critical and condescending toward me, and prefers to spend as much time as possible on his Nintendo Switch. I forced him to play badminton today and he seemed to perk up a bit while we played, but afterward he went back to his sullenness and condescension. I make sure to respond to his attitude in an upbeat manner, but a couple of times it got so bad that I told him him that he hurt my feelings, and I told him he is welcome to talk to me about anything that is bothering him. I raised a son, and my son and I didn't have this problem; he was good about discussing his feelings with me so that we could come up with a solution to whatever was bothering him. Not so with this relative. I have asked him a few times if he was enjoying his stay with me (I didn't get an answer to that) and let him know that it is okay if he would like to go home sooner than planned. Each time, he said he wants to stay, which surprised me, since he seems so unhappy here. This has been an extremely difficult visit, as I love him very much and he just seems so terribly unhappy. He used to be such an enthusiastic, upbeat, happy kid. Should I be concerned, or is this fairly normal behavior that will pass?
Hard to say from what you wrote, but I would say it is within range (barely) of normal. I don't know that it will pass during this visit, but if there is no underlying issue, this too shall pass. But, I would not give in to his mood. Keep doing what you had planned and what you think you would both enjoy. Maybe an activity that you think is for an older kid. Maybe have him teach you about whatever he is playing on his Nintendo.
My first question would be what was his alternative to coming to visit? Did his parents or guardians force the visit? Is he missing out on some activity at home that was important to him? I am very sure it has nothing to do with you. My boys did not go through anything this much, but there were times they were sullen for no outward apparent reason. (My daughter too.) My teenage boys could be 'bribed' with food. Take my kids to the deli and/or to Carvel and they would perk up and agree to almost anything.
I do not know your relation to this relative, but when my kids went to visit my parents, my parents (with our agreement) let them do things that were not ok at home like have milkshakes with breakfast. My mom would tell them this is special at her house, but when you get home, back to everyday rules. She relaxed, max relax, their bedtimes to let them stay up and watch movies, etc.
posted by AugustWest at 12:31 PM on August 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
My first question would be what was his alternative to coming to visit? Did his parents or guardians force the visit? Is he missing out on some activity at home that was important to him? I am very sure it has nothing to do with you. My boys did not go through anything this much, but there were times they were sullen for no outward apparent reason. (My daughter too.) My teenage boys could be 'bribed' with food. Take my kids to the deli and/or to Carvel and they would perk up and agree to almost anything.
I do not know your relation to this relative, but when my kids went to visit my parents, my parents (with our agreement) let them do things that were not ok at home like have milkshakes with breakfast. My mom would tell them this is special at her house, but when you get home, back to everyday rules. She relaxed, max relax, their bedtimes to let them stay up and watch movies, etc.
posted by AugustWest at 12:31 PM on August 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
Whether or not it's normal or a sign of something serious, I think your only real option (since he said he wants to stay) is to just ride out the next few days. I think you're on the right path with staying upbeat, giving him space, and occasionally--but not constantly--leaning on him to do something active or fun like play badminton, go out for ice cream, whatever.
It sounds like you've got a good relationship with his parents/caregiver, so you should check in with them afterwards to see if this is part of a larger pattern.
I guess my answer is a bit orthogonal to your question: it's fine to be concerned (though I'd argue what you're describing falls into the range of normal 13-year-old behavior), but even if you are concerned, there's not much for you to do. If there is something up that really should be addressed, it's likely not going to happen through you and on such a short visit. So, basically, keep on keeping on and try not to make this too much of a "thing."
(My advice would be different if there were more worrying signs--i.e. danger to self or others--or if you were taking on more of a formal caregiver role for an extended period of time. Yeah, this visit is probably going to suck for you both. But at least you are showing them you're a safe person to be grumpy, sullen, and generally "a teenager" around?)
posted by whitewall at 12:33 PM on August 3, 2021 [6 favorites]
It sounds like you've got a good relationship with his parents/caregiver, so you should check in with them afterwards to see if this is part of a larger pattern.
I guess my answer is a bit orthogonal to your question: it's fine to be concerned (though I'd argue what you're describing falls into the range of normal 13-year-old behavior), but even if you are concerned, there's not much for you to do. If there is something up that really should be addressed, it's likely not going to happen through you and on such a short visit. So, basically, keep on keeping on and try not to make this too much of a "thing."
(My advice would be different if there were more worrying signs--i.e. danger to self or others--or if you were taking on more of a formal caregiver role for an extended period of time. Yeah, this visit is probably going to suck for you both. But at least you are showing them you're a safe person to be grumpy, sullen, and generally "a teenager" around?)
posted by whitewall at 12:33 PM on August 3, 2021 [6 favorites]
I think there's a stage of adolescence that corresponds to the 'terrible twos' of toddlerhood, and he seems to be in it.
The ironic thing is, I bet he will look back on this visit fondly, and have relatively happy memories. I also think there's a very good chance he feels your love and reciprocates it, but is so locked in he can't express that to you.
posted by jamjam at 12:42 PM on August 3, 2021 [32 favorites]
The ironic thing is, I bet he will look back on this visit fondly, and have relatively happy memories. I also think there's a very good chance he feels your love and reciprocates it, but is so locked in he can't express that to you.
posted by jamjam at 12:42 PM on August 3, 2021 [32 favorites]
From the kid's point of view, I relate to him, and I think it would be good to carry on being positive, not letting it get to you or taking it personally, and telling him lots that you love him and enjoy having him staying and want him to come back. As a kid locked in to bad emotions it becomes a spiral where because you are acting badly, the adults around you start reacting negatively- which is completely understandable from an adult point of view, but really can worsen the horrible emotional spiral of being 13. In my experience.
As long as you're holding him accountable to participating somewhat in normal life in your house- and the badminton sounds great! More like that is perfect- maybe he could help with some DIY or gardening? Get him to cook or do the dishes some days?- let him be how he is. It's important for troubled kids to know they are loved and cared for and gentle boundaries are still going to apply, and that the adults are still going to be strong dependable adults, despite how weirdly and morosely the kid seems to be acting. Again, in my experience.
posted by Balthamos at 12:52 PM on August 3, 2021 [11 favorites]
As long as you're holding him accountable to participating somewhat in normal life in your house- and the badminton sounds great! More like that is perfect- maybe he could help with some DIY or gardening? Get him to cook or do the dishes some days?- let him be how he is. It's important for troubled kids to know they are loved and cared for and gentle boundaries are still going to apply, and that the adults are still going to be strong dependable adults, despite how weirdly and morosely the kid seems to be acting. Again, in my experience.
posted by Balthamos at 12:52 PM on August 3, 2021 [11 favorites]
To AugustWest's point, it's definitely easy to forget that teens have lots of stuff going on in their heads and it's rarely about adults. And of course this kid isn't telling you anything so you have no idea if this is just what he's like or maybe, idk, a friend made fun of him on instagram last week and now everyone in his life is laughing at him.
As to whether you have to just accept this behavior or do something about it, that's up to you. If it's just a couple days I would probably just let it go, but if it were longer you could (for instance) set up some structure to his time and set some expectations of him and enforce these expectations by, well, probably by taking away his Switch which I'm sure would be a whole thing which is why it's not worth it for just a couple days. But for instance I know that one rule of my house is you aren't allowed to just not respond to someone when they ask you a direct question.
posted by goingonit at 12:53 PM on August 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
As to whether you have to just accept this behavior or do something about it, that's up to you. If it's just a couple days I would probably just let it go, but if it were longer you could (for instance) set up some structure to his time and set some expectations of him and enforce these expectations by, well, probably by taking away his Switch which I'm sure would be a whole thing which is why it's not worth it for just a couple days. But for instance I know that one rule of my house is you aren't allowed to just not respond to someone when they ask you a direct question.
posted by goingonit at 12:53 PM on August 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
I was a sullen teen and any time I was away from my parents but in a situation where information could theoretically be reported back to my parents I had to continue to act like a sullen teen, lest someone let slip to my parents that I appeared to be having a good time without them which would mean that upon return home I would have to endure literal days-long hostility of the WHY DO YOU HATE US DON'T YOU KNOW WE GIVE YOU EVERYTHING/I BET YOU'D EAT THOSE LIMA BEANS IF ALISON'S MOM MADE THEM variety.
No, it was both easier and safer to maintain a baseline sullenness at all times because it protected me from the narcissists at home. Yes it was miserable to pretend everything sucked when it didn't completely suck, but not completely sucking was better than being punished for being happy.
I think the only times I felt like I could ever actually be happy as a kid were when I went to summer camp, far far away, where no one knew me or my family.
Not saying this is necessarily the case with your sullen teen, but being a kid is hard and families are hard. If you can say it honestly, dropping something about how you don't tell his parents what he's up to could go a long way.
posted by phunniemee at 12:58 PM on August 3, 2021 [26 favorites]
No, it was both easier and safer to maintain a baseline sullenness at all times because it protected me from the narcissists at home. Yes it was miserable to pretend everything sucked when it didn't completely suck, but not completely sucking was better than being punished for being happy.
I think the only times I felt like I could ever actually be happy as a kid were when I went to summer camp, far far away, where no one knew me or my family.
Not saying this is necessarily the case with your sullen teen, but being a kid is hard and families are hard. If you can say it honestly, dropping something about how you don't tell his parents what he's up to could go a long way.
posted by phunniemee at 12:58 PM on August 3, 2021 [26 favorites]
I raised a son, and my son and I didn't have this problem; he was good about discussing his feelings with me so that we could come up with a solution to whatever was bothering him. Not so with this relative.
Well, you also don't know how this kid is with his parents. And also... of course you're going to have a different way of interacting with the kid you raised versus a relative who is visiting. I think we parents sometimes make the mistake of expecting other kids to be like ours, you know?
Ninety percent of the time he is sullen, negative, critical and condescending toward me
So here's my take: he gets to be sullen and negative, but critical and condescending sounds closer to disrespectfulness, or at the least being unkind. I think it's good you told him he hurt your feelings.
I would just try to ride this out now, and I would stop mentioning that he can leave. He knows he can leave, and there's no reason to keep bringing it up. Now, if it gets to the point where you don't want him in your house--that's a different situation, and I'd address that with the parents first.
I think this sounds like a pretty typical teenager, to be honest--or at least not atypical.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:19 PM on August 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
Well, you also don't know how this kid is with his parents. And also... of course you're going to have a different way of interacting with the kid you raised versus a relative who is visiting. I think we parents sometimes make the mistake of expecting other kids to be like ours, you know?
Ninety percent of the time he is sullen, negative, critical and condescending toward me
So here's my take: he gets to be sullen and negative, but critical and condescending sounds closer to disrespectfulness, or at the least being unkind. I think it's good you told him he hurt your feelings.
I would just try to ride this out now, and I would stop mentioning that he can leave. He knows he can leave, and there's no reason to keep bringing it up. Now, if it gets to the point where you don't want him in your house--that's a different situation, and I'd address that with the parents first.
I think this sounds like a pretty typical teenager, to be honest--or at least not atypical.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:19 PM on August 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
Covid has been hard on kids. Even if they’re vaccinated it’s not close to over for them, as he’s likely looking at another school year disrupted by it. Was he quarantined all year and he’s adjusting to being away from home? Was he socially isolated and he depended on gaming for company? These are my guesses.
I wouldn’t judge his overall personality by this short visit during a very stressful time period (and puberty!) I do think his parents could have warned you or offered advice, but maybe he is more comfortable at home OR more comfortable with you. Or maybe he’s surprised by his own negativity and can’t explain it. Don’t take it personally.
posted by areaperson at 5:18 PM on August 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
I wouldn’t judge his overall personality by this short visit during a very stressful time period (and puberty!) I do think his parents could have warned you or offered advice, but maybe he is more comfortable at home OR more comfortable with you. Or maybe he’s surprised by his own negativity and can’t explain it. Don’t take it personally.
posted by areaperson at 5:18 PM on August 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
prefers to spend as much time as possible on his Nintendo Switch. I forced him to play badminton today and he seemed to perk up a bit while we played, but afterward he went back to his sullenness and condescension.
If he is staying with you for a few days and not the whole summer, I'm not sure I see the issue with his choice of leisure activity or why it is something requiring intervention. You are presumably joking with the "forced" (because a really sullen 13-year-old could never be forced to play badminton. there would be blood.) but even so, you cajoled him away from something he liked to do in order to do something that entertained you, and he did it with reasonably good temporary grace. there are many teens in the world who would not do as much.
of course that doesn't mean he's not being a little shit most of the time. but "sullen" is usually a reactive state, and I wonder whether he is being presented with too many overtures to react to. there is one set of responses I might recommend if he is just walking up to you in your own house and insulting you for no reason, and a completely different attitude I would recommend if you keep interrupting him and demanding he stop entertaining himself. In the one case I would say ship him back to his parents early, to teach a lesson; in the other, I would say back off and let him read his damn book (pretend the games he plays are books he's reading, to understand why perfectly polite but frequent social overtures spark fits of temper.)
he is not too young to learn that being a good guest means thinking of what will entertain your host as well as yourself. but he is not too old to still automatically think of being left alone as his natural right, and to think of being housed and fed as a joyous service that adults are privileged to perform for him. kids are often led to believe the latter for many years until suddenly they hit 12/13 and get told it was actually all a pack of lies. the transition is awkward. he doesn't know yet that houseguests are expected to earn their keep, as it were, by making Fun for their hosts. Or maybe he knows that rule but doesn't think it applies to family (he is wrong but this is something many children have to learn as a formal lesson.)
If it were a whole summer you might take it on yourself to forcibly socialize him a little more, but for a brief stay it seems more unpleasantness than it's worth.
plus he's probably miserable because he's 13 and the only thing worse than that feeling is having a tolerant adult describe it back to you.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:28 PM on August 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
If he is staying with you for a few days and not the whole summer, I'm not sure I see the issue with his choice of leisure activity or why it is something requiring intervention. You are presumably joking with the "forced" (because a really sullen 13-year-old could never be forced to play badminton. there would be blood.) but even so, you cajoled him away from something he liked to do in order to do something that entertained you, and he did it with reasonably good temporary grace. there are many teens in the world who would not do as much.
of course that doesn't mean he's not being a little shit most of the time. but "sullen" is usually a reactive state, and I wonder whether he is being presented with too many overtures to react to. there is one set of responses I might recommend if he is just walking up to you in your own house and insulting you for no reason, and a completely different attitude I would recommend if you keep interrupting him and demanding he stop entertaining himself. In the one case I would say ship him back to his parents early, to teach a lesson; in the other, I would say back off and let him read his damn book (pretend the games he plays are books he's reading, to understand why perfectly polite but frequent social overtures spark fits of temper.)
he is not too young to learn that being a good guest means thinking of what will entertain your host as well as yourself. but he is not too old to still automatically think of being left alone as his natural right, and to think of being housed and fed as a joyous service that adults are privileged to perform for him. kids are often led to believe the latter for many years until suddenly they hit 12/13 and get told it was actually all a pack of lies. the transition is awkward. he doesn't know yet that houseguests are expected to earn their keep, as it were, by making Fun for their hosts. Or maybe he knows that rule but doesn't think it applies to family (he is wrong but this is something many children have to learn as a formal lesson.)
If it were a whole summer you might take it on yourself to forcibly socialize him a little more, but for a brief stay it seems more unpleasantness than it's worth.
plus he's probably miserable because he's 13 and the only thing worse than that feeling is having a tolerant adult describe it back to you.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:28 PM on August 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
I agree that most of this is probably normal, and even if it isn't, the cure is the same: Spoil him. Lots of treats and invitations to outings with no sulking on your part if he says no, and just letting him be with the games. It's good to tell him to knock it off if he's being rude or disrespectful, but follow that up with some more attention and spoiling. Are there cool things to do or eat in your town? Do those.
posted by shadygrove at 7:38 PM on August 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by shadygrove at 7:38 PM on August 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
Each time, he said he wants to stay, which surprised me, since he seems so unhappy here
It seems like the root of the issue is that you believe his unhappiness is BECAUSE he is staying with you? Maybe he's just not as happy these days than the kid he used to be. Teenagers start to think about the world and how they fit into it. Children are often happy and upbeat because they don't have a lot of concerns or worries, teenagers may start to have personal concerns or worries about the world that he didn't have as a young child. Anything from what his own life will be like when he gets older to existential concerns about the general state of the world. This is especially likely if he is an empathetic and caring person who thinks about how others feel -- it might not feel like he cares about how others feel because he doesn't seem to be caring about your feelings, but for people who feel deeply about things like the huge number of people who have died of covid or been affected by it, or climate change, or something like that, it can take quite a bit of life experience to get to a place where you can be exceedingly distressed about the state of the world and simultaneously make entertaining conversation as a houseguest. Most 13 year olds, even very bright and empathetic 13 year olds, aren't quite at the developmental stage to manage it.
Have you considered that he might be feeling happier visiting you than being wherever else he would go if he was not-staying? There could very well be some things going on in his life where being able to visit you is a welcome respite AND at the same time he might not be comfortable talking about those things with you, for reasons that have nothing to do with you.
posted by yohko at 11:14 PM on August 3, 2021 [8 favorites]
It seems like the root of the issue is that you believe his unhappiness is BECAUSE he is staying with you? Maybe he's just not as happy these days than the kid he used to be. Teenagers start to think about the world and how they fit into it. Children are often happy and upbeat because they don't have a lot of concerns or worries, teenagers may start to have personal concerns or worries about the world that he didn't have as a young child. Anything from what his own life will be like when he gets older to existential concerns about the general state of the world. This is especially likely if he is an empathetic and caring person who thinks about how others feel -- it might not feel like he cares about how others feel because he doesn't seem to be caring about your feelings, but for people who feel deeply about things like the huge number of people who have died of covid or been affected by it, or climate change, or something like that, it can take quite a bit of life experience to get to a place where you can be exceedingly distressed about the state of the world and simultaneously make entertaining conversation as a houseguest. Most 13 year olds, even very bright and empathetic 13 year olds, aren't quite at the developmental stage to manage it.
Have you considered that he might be feeling happier visiting you than being wherever else he would go if he was not-staying? There could very well be some things going on in his life where being able to visit you is a welcome respite AND at the same time he might not be comfortable talking about those things with you, for reasons that have nothing to do with you.
posted by yohko at 11:14 PM on August 3, 2021 [8 favorites]
Have you tried using humor with him? It's possible it might bring him out of whatever he's in.
posted by Dansaman at 11:14 PM on August 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Dansaman at 11:14 PM on August 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
I know a lot of teenagers, and I think the pandemic has been harder on them than any other age group. If he's willing to play badminton and says he wants to stay with you, that's awesome. Take the win.
> I raised a son, and my son and I didn't have this problem
Your son wasn't a young teen during quarantine, I bet.
posted by The corpse in the library at 5:34 PM on August 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
> I raised a son, and my son and I didn't have this problem
Your son wasn't a young teen during quarantine, I bet.
posted by The corpse in the library at 5:34 PM on August 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you all for your input. It was enormously helpful. It opened my eyes and improved my perspective, and I am sure made it a better visit for my little 13 year old relative who I love so much!
posted by SageTrail at 8:47 AM on August 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by SageTrail at 8:47 AM on August 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
It could be fairly normal behavior for him. He might just be one of those sullen teens. My kids weren't like that but I certainly was. If he says he wants to stay, take him at his word. Just keep being you, don't be unusually upbeat or he'll know you're putting it on. And yes, if he hurts your feelings or says inappropriate things, let him know.
Otherwise, just let him be himself. He'll probably grow out of it sooner rather than later and he'll likely have good memories of the time he spend with you, even if to you he seems terribly bored and unhappy.
posted by cooker girl at 12:29 PM on August 3, 2021 [14 favorites]