How important is a permit for a Chicago roof deck replacement?
July 29, 2021 6:00 AM Subscribe
We’re about to replace the flat roof on our Chicago home, and we’ll need to remove and replace the roof deck in order to get access to it. The roof replacement is urgent, but the deck replacement requires a long, complex, and expensive permitting process. Would it be a bad idea to just go ahead and do the work without a permit?
Some details: the existing roof and deck date from the late 1990s. We’d either replace the deck on its existing footprint, or expand it a bit to cover more of the roof. We think we’d likely need to replace the deck right away, at the same time as doing the roof, since Chicago building code requires much more stringent load ratings for a “new” rather than “replacement” deck for buildings as old as ours — we’re worried that if we take the deck off and don’t immediately replace it we’ll wind up unable to replace it at all.
The contractor we’ve found (who’d handle both the roofing and deck work) would be happy to go ahead without a permit, and says that getting a deck permit for a building of our age would be “a huge can of worms” since building codes have changed since it was first constructed. He says we’d need to hire a structural engineer, potentially get holes cut in our roof or ceilings to inspect the interior construction of the roof, and then go through a long bureaucratic process to get approval before the work could begin.
We’re trying to figure out what the potential risks are of doing the work without a permit. We aren’t especially concerned about the actual structural integrity of the roof — it already has a deck on it, after all. But how likely is it that we’d get some kind of surprise inspection from the city, and what kind of headaches would that bring? And are there complications we might not be considering about having unpermitted work done that might come back to bite us? Or is this basically just red tape that most people ignore?
We’d ordinarily be wary of doing the work without a permit, but we also have a leaky roof that urgently needs fixing before the winter comes. How much of a risk would we be taking if we just skipped the permitting?
Some details: the existing roof and deck date from the late 1990s. We’d either replace the deck on its existing footprint, or expand it a bit to cover more of the roof. We think we’d likely need to replace the deck right away, at the same time as doing the roof, since Chicago building code requires much more stringent load ratings for a “new” rather than “replacement” deck for buildings as old as ours — we’re worried that if we take the deck off and don’t immediately replace it we’ll wind up unable to replace it at all.
The contractor we’ve found (who’d handle both the roofing and deck work) would be happy to go ahead without a permit, and says that getting a deck permit for a building of our age would be “a huge can of worms” since building codes have changed since it was first constructed. He says we’d need to hire a structural engineer, potentially get holes cut in our roof or ceilings to inspect the interior construction of the roof, and then go through a long bureaucratic process to get approval before the work could begin.
We’re trying to figure out what the potential risks are of doing the work without a permit. We aren’t especially concerned about the actual structural integrity of the roof — it already has a deck on it, after all. But how likely is it that we’d get some kind of surprise inspection from the city, and what kind of headaches would that bring? And are there complications we might not be considering about having unpermitted work done that might come back to bite us? Or is this basically just red tape that most people ignore?
We’d ordinarily be wary of doing the work without a permit, but we also have a leaky roof that urgently needs fixing before the winter comes. How much of a risk would we be taking if we just skipped the permitting?
Your risk aversion may vary, but I would never do this, and I wouldn't work with a contractor willing to do it, either - not for the deck, and not for the roof replacement. I would wonder what other corners this contractor would be willing to cut - would he skimp on materials? Safety precautions? Payment for his subcontractors? The permit is as much for your protection as for the city's - and if anything goes wrong with construction you've completed without a permit, you're wide open to legal action.
posted by invincible summer at 6:10 AM on July 29, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by invincible summer at 6:10 AM on July 29, 2021 [13 favorites]
I also can't really imagine having any appetite for sketchy construction practices right now, given what's just happened in Florida. Yikes. If even a sketchy contractor thinks you'd need to hire a structural engineer to get permitted, my advice would be to find an ethical contractor and hire a structural engineer.
posted by invincible summer at 6:18 AM on July 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by invincible summer at 6:18 AM on July 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
Consult a lawyer. It might still qualify as replacement since an extant deck is being removed.
Also: pretty sure they can make you take it down even after it's finished if they catch you, so you're gambling considerable money as well as your safety, not just 'a headache'.
It's somewhat true that things that are illegal and incur fines are legal for rich people, but I'd not do this even if I had spare house kind of money.
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:34 AM on July 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
Also: pretty sure they can make you take it down even after it's finished if they catch you, so you're gambling considerable money as well as your safety, not just 'a headache'.
It's somewhat true that things that are illegal and incur fines are legal for rich people, but I'd not do this even if I had spare house kind of money.
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:34 AM on July 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
This is the same conversation I have had with multiple Chicago contractors when replacing a deck or a porch - there is some back-and-forth about whether it is "new" or a "replacement," then they decide it is a "replacement" and they do it without a permit. I have no idea whether they are right or wrong. Like a lot of things in life, it's probably a matter of risk tolerance and how much you want to spend for peace of mind. In these conversations, I have heard that your chances of getting visited by an inspector are much higher if you have a dumpster sitting in the street for a few days.
posted by Mid at 6:41 AM on July 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Mid at 6:41 AM on July 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
So, speaking as someone who has been royally fucked by the City of Chicago Department of Buildings, get the permits. The thing you might not realize is that if you operate without a permit and they come out and inspect...they can and will find *everything* that is not to code (and not just with the porch, anything "they see" is fair game, don't let them in the building, they take digital photos to document their findings). Peeling paint? Is that drain vented? Does that downspout go into the sewer? Where are the smoke alarms spaced x number of feet apart? Is this floor level? What kind of electrical service is this? You get the point.
Now, based on your building's age, there may be elements that were built before the code went into effect. Things that you'd never imagine. In addition, you'd probably have to demolish the work (that you have already paid for) and then rebuild (pay it all over again) and have them re-inspect it. All depends on who complained, who your alderman is, what kind of day the inspector is having. I have accidentally touched the third rail. It hurts. For this reason, I am risk averse in this area. Just my .02
Good luck.
posted by zerobyproxy at 7:04 AM on July 29, 2021 [7 favorites]
Now, based on your building's age, there may be elements that were built before the code went into effect. Things that you'd never imagine. In addition, you'd probably have to demolish the work (that you have already paid for) and then rebuild (pay it all over again) and have them re-inspect it. All depends on who complained, who your alderman is, what kind of day the inspector is having. I have accidentally touched the third rail. It hurts. For this reason, I am risk averse in this area. Just my .02
Good luck.
posted by zerobyproxy at 7:04 AM on July 29, 2021 [7 favorites]
If I was considering buying your house, I would request to see any and all permits as part of my due diligence.
posted by citygirl at 8:08 AM on July 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by citygirl at 8:08 AM on July 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
The contractor we’ve found (who’d handle both the roofing and deck work) would be happy to go ahead without a permit, and says that getting a deck permit for a building of our age would be “a huge can of worms” since building codes have changed since it was first constructed. He says we’d need to hire a structural engineer, potentially get holes cut in our roof or ceilings to inspect the interior construction of the roof, and then go through a long bureaucratic process to get approval before the work could begin.
Wow, sounds like someone is on a schedule that he doesn’t want messed up by those meanies in the government who try to keep houses from collapsing on people. Get the permit. They’re expensive and a pain but they exist for safety reasons. What if someone gets permanently injured or killed?
Get the permit.
posted by corey flood at 9:16 AM on July 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
Wow, sounds like someone is on a schedule that he doesn’t want messed up by those meanies in the government who try to keep houses from collapsing on people. Get the permit. They’re expensive and a pain but they exist for safety reasons. What if someone gets permanently injured or killed?
Get the permit.
posted by corey flood at 9:16 AM on July 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
Chicago had a deck collapse that involved over a hundred people, and resulted in over 50 injuries and 13 fatalities back in 2003. The deck was a relatively new construction, but had not been permitted and didn't meet code. The city inspectors passed by it and didn't catch it so.... they have significantly ramped up their oversight of this sort of work. Of all the projects to skip a permit on, I would not skip permitting any deck/roof work in Chicago.
Yes the process is more onerous now - and the rules state that if the deck was permitted and proper before 2003, then you can replace it with a similar provided an engineer says the roof can hold it up.
If the deck wasn't permitted? Wasn't properly built? Expanded beyond the original permit? Then you'll have to go through the process for a whole new deck.
posted by zenon at 10:32 AM on July 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
Yes the process is more onerous now - and the rules state that if the deck was permitted and proper before 2003, then you can replace it with a similar provided an engineer says the roof can hold it up.
If the deck wasn't permitted? Wasn't properly built? Expanded beyond the original permit? Then you'll have to go through the process for a whole new deck.
posted by zenon at 10:32 AM on July 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
(Missed the edit window, but I meant that the contractor doesn’t want his schedule messed up, not you!)
posted by corey flood at 10:59 AM on July 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by corey flood at 10:59 AM on July 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
I don't live in Chicago - but since the leaky roof replacement is urgent (and not just for snow, I'd imagine this summer's rain hasn't helped) perhaps you could go to your local commissioner/alderman's office and explain the urgency and ask for their help in negotiating the process?
posted by TimHare at 12:30 PM on July 29, 2021
posted by TimHare at 12:30 PM on July 29, 2021
Code changes usually happen for a good reason. I'd look for a structural engineer, ask them to evaluate the safety of the roof deck replacement. Meanwhile, look for any photos showing the roof deck; my house is clearly shown on Google and Bing maps, and maybe older photos are archived. Might be useful to show that the deck has been there.
posted by theora55 at 1:28 PM on July 29, 2021
posted by theora55 at 1:28 PM on July 29, 2021
If you are leaning toward getting a permit... how much would it cost to have the old deck reinstalled so it doesn't hold up your roof job?
posted by flimflam at 2:50 PM on July 29, 2021
posted by flimflam at 2:50 PM on July 29, 2021
To learn if previous work was permitted and/or found in violation, use the City of Chicago's "Search Building Department Records" webpage: webapps1.chicago.gov/buildingrecords. Heed their disclaimer.
posted by kgander at 11:35 AM on July 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by kgander at 11:35 AM on July 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
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