Etiquette of apologies
July 28, 2021 8:58 PM Subscribe
In the give and take of personal relationships is it ever appropriate to demand someone apologize for some perceived transgression? As opposed to letting the person know what was offensive and waiting for them to offer the apology?
I've run into situations where people describe battles with people and somehow come to the conclusion they must "demand an apology". I think that point sounds aggressive and counterproductive to the resolution of a disagreement, especially if the other party is not good with demands. Is this just a perception or does it work in practice?
I've run into situations where people describe battles with people and somehow come to the conclusion they must "demand an apology". I think that point sounds aggressive and counterproductive to the resolution of a disagreement, especially if the other party is not good with demands. Is this just a perception or does it work in practice?
Maybe other people feel differently, but I don't see how a demanded apology can reasonably be seen to be a sincere apology.
Like you can't demand I feel a certain way. Demanding that I say I feel a certain way? That's hooey.
posted by aubilenon at 9:04 PM on July 28, 2021 [9 favorites]
Like you can't demand I feel a certain way. Demanding that I say I feel a certain way? That's hooey.
posted by aubilenon at 9:04 PM on July 28, 2021 [9 favorites]
I never phrased it as, "I demand an apology", but I have uttered the words, "I think you owe me an apology". The useful thing about doing this instead of just informing someone of something is it gives them a path to make amends -- they can give you a good apology and then everyone goes on with their lives.
You might think, "but who would hear about a time they caused offense and not apologize?" The answer is, a lot of people. Maybe they'd say, "oof, sorry you felt that way" or "wow, that wasn't what I meant at all", or something else. But it doesn't give you closure like hearing someone say, "I'm sorry I did that, I didn't realize it hurt you, and I won't do it again". You're much more likely to hear THAT when you ask for it!
Is it sincere? Well, maybe! It depends on the people! But if you know the person you can tell or, at least, guess.
posted by goingonit at 9:07 PM on July 28, 2021 [23 favorites]
You might think, "but who would hear about a time they caused offense and not apologize?" The answer is, a lot of people. Maybe they'd say, "oof, sorry you felt that way" or "wow, that wasn't what I meant at all", or something else. But it doesn't give you closure like hearing someone say, "I'm sorry I did that, I didn't realize it hurt you, and I won't do it again". You're much more likely to hear THAT when you ask for it!
Is it sincere? Well, maybe! It depends on the people! But if you know the person you can tell or, at least, guess.
posted by goingonit at 9:07 PM on July 28, 2021 [23 favorites]
When I've done someone wrong and they demand an apology, I give it willingly, and often with a feeling of great relief, occasionally even at the 'Oh, thank God!' level, that they are angry and assertive instead of wounded and broken.
posted by jamjam at 9:31 PM on July 28, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by jamjam at 9:31 PM on July 28, 2021 [4 favorites]
I wouldn't demand an apology but if you're upset with someone and they seem oblivious to the fact that you're upset or don't seem to care (but otherwise want to continue whatever relationship you have), I think it's a good idea to address the issue and why it bothers you. At that point, whether they choose to apologize to you is up to them but informs what kind of relationship you should have going forward. Phrasing it as a demand is only likely to raise hackles.
An exception to this is when the demand is not so much to the person who wronged you as much as a signal to others that what occurred is not appropriate. For example, I think the councilperson who was recently publicly called a racial slur would be well within his rights to demand (among other things) an apology. But the point isn't really the apology, it's to say to the world what just happened is not acceptable.
posted by Candleman at 9:46 PM on July 28, 2021 [6 favorites]
An exception to this is when the demand is not so much to the person who wronged you as much as a signal to others that what occurred is not appropriate. For example, I think the councilperson who was recently publicly called a racial slur would be well within his rights to demand (among other things) an apology. But the point isn't really the apology, it's to say to the world what just happened is not acceptable.
posted by Candleman at 9:46 PM on July 28, 2021 [6 favorites]
You can ask for, expect, demand and apology, but the real questions to ask are, "Why do you want the apology?" and "What will you do if you don't get one?"
Are you asking for an apology because you want to repair the relationship or because you want to exact a price? Are you willing to and can you reasonably cut this person off if you don't get what you want?
posted by brookeb at 10:12 PM on July 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
Are you asking for an apology because you want to repair the relationship or because you want to exact a price? Are you willing to and can you reasonably cut this person off if you don't get what you want?
posted by brookeb at 10:12 PM on July 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
You can ask for whatever you want but even if the person does say sorry, it’s pretty meaningless if it was forced out of them and almost certainly is not sincere, so what’s the point?
posted by Jubey at 10:29 PM on July 28, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 10:29 PM on July 28, 2021 [4 favorites]
"You can ask, but you may not like the answer."
I assume you are talking about hearsay, i.e. stories told by OTHER people (A) battling yet OTHER people (B) and somehow A decided nothing except an apology from B will do to "resolve" whatever it is between them.
But what is A really after? By telling you the story, it seems A is trying to solicit sympathy and/or empathy, but keep in mind, you're only seeing the situation from A's POV. And if it's that easy, why hadn't A already done it?
IMHO, A is NOT after an apology from B. A is instead, trying to gain your sympathy and you as an ally, with the eventual goal of humiliating B with "see, all my friends say you're wrong".
The apology is just an ancillary topic, the "hook", if you will, to gauge your reaction. And from the way you did not agree with her assessment, I wonder if A will ever contact you again.
posted by kschang at 11:51 PM on July 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
I assume you are talking about hearsay, i.e. stories told by OTHER people (A) battling yet OTHER people (B) and somehow A decided nothing except an apology from B will do to "resolve" whatever it is between them.
But what is A really after? By telling you the story, it seems A is trying to solicit sympathy and/or empathy, but keep in mind, you're only seeing the situation from A's POV. And if it's that easy, why hadn't A already done it?
IMHO, A is NOT after an apology from B. A is instead, trying to gain your sympathy and you as an ally, with the eventual goal of humiliating B with "see, all my friends say you're wrong".
The apology is just an ancillary topic, the "hook", if you will, to gauge your reaction. And from the way you did not agree with her assessment, I wonder if A will ever contact you again.
posted by kschang at 11:51 PM on July 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
Those people are upset and want those other people to kowtow to them, that is, to admit they were wrong in the heat of an argument. You, an innocent bystander, should stop and not interfere. Let them work it out. It's never worth your time or energy to insert yourself into such an argument. It's always best to step back and let it play out between the two people who are having the argument. If you are demanding a resolution when people are heated, I advise you to step back. If you are judging others, I also advise you to step back.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 11:57 PM on July 28, 2021
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 11:57 PM on July 28, 2021
I suppose you can demand an apology. It seems to me a better approach might be to draw a boundary: rather than demand an apology, say that you need relationship repair that includes an apology, and without it, you won’t continue the relationship.
You can’t control someone else’s behavior, but you can choose not to interact with them.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:13 AM on July 29, 2021 [7 favorites]
You can’t control someone else’s behavior, but you can choose not to interact with them.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:13 AM on July 29, 2021 [7 favorites]
Sometimes. Usually the meta behavior around an apology, initializes the act of an apology.
It's such a relative social experience. Most of the time, people need space/time to accumulate insight for apology, when it happens. Often apologies sit within the realm of "little to no expectations," but not always.
posted by firstdaffodils at 12:43 AM on July 29, 2021
It's such a relative social experience. Most of the time, people need space/time to accumulate insight for apology, when it happens. Often apologies sit within the realm of "little to no expectations," but not always.
posted by firstdaffodils at 12:43 AM on July 29, 2021
>especially if the other party is not good with demands
We're social creatures and have roles within that society. If someone breaks those boundaries, we need a way to call it out and recover the breach so that we live safely within social norms. You aren't responsible for how someone responds and you have a responsibility to yourself to defend your boundary and recover this breach. This person may not take it well and may believe they're somehow entitled to evade the consequences of their actions (it's nonsense). You may even be facing an expectation that this person will lose their temper and act violently to you -- I'm sorry that these are typical circumstances -- please stay safe and find an ally who won't be bullied out of calling for your apology.
(It doesn't gain you anything to ask for an apology from someone acting in bad faith -- they're going to do what they want without regard for acting sincerely. We have lots of public examples of people gaining from saying one thing and doing whatever they like, and it's emboldened other people to follow on. I think our shared space needs words to mean what they mean and reputation -- the trend of someone's words having integrity with their actions -- still being a valuable social worth.)
For the demand, it can look demanding or undemanding. How you state that request probably won't get better than "I think you owe me an apology." There are frameworks you might consider such as "their actions, the impact on you, the consequences for you both" or the larger DEARMAN framework.
posted by k3ninho at 12:55 AM on July 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
We're social creatures and have roles within that society. If someone breaks those boundaries, we need a way to call it out and recover the breach so that we live safely within social norms. You aren't responsible for how someone responds and you have a responsibility to yourself to defend your boundary and recover this breach. This person may not take it well and may believe they're somehow entitled to evade the consequences of their actions (it's nonsense). You may even be facing an expectation that this person will lose their temper and act violently to you -- I'm sorry that these are typical circumstances -- please stay safe and find an ally who won't be bullied out of calling for your apology.
(It doesn't gain you anything to ask for an apology from someone acting in bad faith -- they're going to do what they want without regard for acting sincerely. We have lots of public examples of people gaining from saying one thing and doing whatever they like, and it's emboldened other people to follow on. I think our shared space needs words to mean what they mean and reputation -- the trend of someone's words having integrity with their actions -- still being a valuable social worth.)
For the demand, it can look demanding or undemanding. How you state that request probably won't get better than "I think you owe me an apology." There are frameworks you might consider such as "their actions, the impact on you, the consequences for you both" or the larger DEARMAN framework.
posted by k3ninho at 12:55 AM on July 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
The only time I'd bother doing this is if it was a child or student and it was a teaching moment. I wouldn't make it a demand, but point out that an apology is appropriate and polite. The meaning of "student" may vary.
posted by Sunburnt at 2:45 AM on July 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Sunburnt at 2:45 AM on July 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
I teach social skills groups and one of the research-backed steps to resolving an argument is to tell the other person what you need, which can include an apology. You don’t demand it but you do let them know you need one if they haven’t offered it.
posted by brook horse at 5:15 AM on July 29, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by brook horse at 5:15 AM on July 29, 2021 [10 favorites]
There's a bit of an ask/guess culture angle to this, maybe. I've never demanded an apology personally and I'm not sure I ever would, (though as others have noted above, I think it would be appropriate for a community to ask/expect an apology for person/entity/institution whose offense had wider ramifications). I do, however, tell friends and family that they've hurt my feelings and why. 95% of the time this results in an apology--outliers being "I only said it because I thought you needed to hear it/ I can't see how any sane person would would insulted by that" responses that usually signal the end of a relationship. Some portion of the apologizers will turn right around and do it again because human beings are flawed creatures of habit, and forcing an apology is much easier than getting someone to meaningfully change their behavior.
posted by thivaia at 6:05 AM on July 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by thivaia at 6:05 AM on July 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
Absolutely appropriate.
Until a properly worded apology occurs the relationship stops dead and does not resume. That is when it is appropriate. It's not petty either. Both members of the relationship get to assess if they want to continue at that point. The offended party is drawing a line in the sand that says that they require a strong, public verbal commitment that a certain behaviour will be acknowleged as not acceptable and will not be repeated. And the challenged party is well within their rights to to refuse to apologize if they feel that the other is making unreasonable demands on their behaviour.
This is appropriate boundary setting, and for example, can result in two siblings no longer playing with each other for six weeks, or six months or even forever- something that they may have to do, if as they mature their old relationship status no longer works. If a teasing younger sister gets too wild, the older sister has to use some strategy to impress on them that this is not acceptable, and they would rather not play together if it will always turn into rough house. The next alternative of punching the younger sister out is not as good a choice for multiple reasons.
It is also appropriate in an adult social group, however awkward it may be for the bystanders. It certainly results in ugly drama - but that is better than having members of your group always drop out and never knowing why and discovering too late that you had a broken stair. Confrontations like this are painful, but highly useful. The biggest difficulty with them is when the social abilities of one side are much better than the other as when demanding an apology becomes a tool used adroitly by a bully to oppress others, or when it is used ineptly by someone with lower social skills and position so the group sabotages them even when there was substance to their grievance.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:16 AM on July 29, 2021 [5 favorites]
Until a properly worded apology occurs the relationship stops dead and does not resume. That is when it is appropriate. It's not petty either. Both members of the relationship get to assess if they want to continue at that point. The offended party is drawing a line in the sand that says that they require a strong, public verbal commitment that a certain behaviour will be acknowleged as not acceptable and will not be repeated. And the challenged party is well within their rights to to refuse to apologize if they feel that the other is making unreasonable demands on their behaviour.
This is appropriate boundary setting, and for example, can result in two siblings no longer playing with each other for six weeks, or six months or even forever- something that they may have to do, if as they mature their old relationship status no longer works. If a teasing younger sister gets too wild, the older sister has to use some strategy to impress on them that this is not acceptable, and they would rather not play together if it will always turn into rough house. The next alternative of punching the younger sister out is not as good a choice for multiple reasons.
It is also appropriate in an adult social group, however awkward it may be for the bystanders. It certainly results in ugly drama - but that is better than having members of your group always drop out and never knowing why and discovering too late that you had a broken stair. Confrontations like this are painful, but highly useful. The biggest difficulty with them is when the social abilities of one side are much better than the other as when demanding an apology becomes a tool used adroitly by a bully to oppress others, or when it is used ineptly by someone with lower social skills and position so the group sabotages them even when there was substance to their grievance.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:16 AM on July 29, 2021 [5 favorites]
Sort of.
In my experience *demanding* escalates the tension, but explaining how you feel and asking for what you need to resolve it is generally a good thing.
I've seen enough interpersonal conflicts that followed this format: two people have a reasonable misunderstanding. Afterward, one person just wants an apology but won't say it, and their hurt festers the longer they go without receiving one (clearly, the other person is worse than they thought if they can't even apologize!). Meanwhile, the other party feels bad about causing harm (or maybe doesn't even know they did!), doesn't know what they are supposed to do, and gets increasingly upset. The conflict gets bigger than necessary. Just ask for what you need.
On the other hand, it sounds a little like you are describing a situation in which the party who wants an apology isn't actually interested in resolving the conflict....?
posted by esker at 6:29 AM on July 29, 2021
In my experience *demanding* escalates the tension, but explaining how you feel and asking for what you need to resolve it is generally a good thing.
I've seen enough interpersonal conflicts that followed this format: two people have a reasonable misunderstanding. Afterward, one person just wants an apology but won't say it, and their hurt festers the longer they go without receiving one (clearly, the other person is worse than they thought if they can't even apologize!). Meanwhile, the other party feels bad about causing harm (or maybe doesn't even know they did!), doesn't know what they are supposed to do, and gets increasingly upset. The conflict gets bigger than necessary. Just ask for what you need.
On the other hand, it sounds a little like you are describing a situation in which the party who wants an apology isn't actually interested in resolving the conflict....?
posted by esker at 6:29 AM on July 29, 2021
LOL, no. But you can ASK for one. "I felt really hurt when you______. It would mean a lot to me in this friendship to hear from you that you understand how that was hurtful and apologize for hurting me."
posted by amaire at 9:37 AM on July 29, 2021
posted by amaire at 9:37 AM on July 29, 2021
I never phrased it as, "I demand an apology", but I have uttered the words, "I think you owe me an apology".
This is exactly me and I think I only use it (and sparingly) with my partner and sometimes people who I am very close with (i.e. family or few very good friends). The point, in my case, is that sometimes we can have a disagreement and they may not understand how much a thing was hurtful, possibly accidentally, and so this gives a framework for saying "OK, I think we've worked out how to manage that thing but I'd still like an apology for how that played out on your end" or something.
No demands, nthing what others have said, that rarely is constructive, but I think opening the conversation to what will smooth over bad feelings--sometimes it's an apology, sometimes it's something else--can be helpful for people who aren't sure where to go next.
posted by jessamyn at 7:28 PM on July 29, 2021
This is exactly me and I think I only use it (and sparingly) with my partner and sometimes people who I am very close with (i.e. family or few very good friends). The point, in my case, is that sometimes we can have a disagreement and they may not understand how much a thing was hurtful, possibly accidentally, and so this gives a framework for saying "OK, I think we've worked out how to manage that thing but I'd still like an apology for how that played out on your end" or something.
No demands, nthing what others have said, that rarely is constructive, but I think opening the conversation to what will smooth over bad feelings--sometimes it's an apology, sometimes it's something else--can be helpful for people who aren't sure where to go next.
posted by jessamyn at 7:28 PM on July 29, 2021
I think it depends on what your attitude toward it is. If you are trying to help them understand what you want and what will help repair the relationship, because you think they might honestly not understand that you're wanting an apology, yes! Ask for one! I come from a background where apologies were seen as useless and what mattered was taking the action to change, and I have had incidents where I am doing everything I can to repair the relationship and then someone "lets me in on the secret" that I forgot to speak the magic formula.
But if you're trying to "demand an apology" from someone, to win an argument or to get points or to "force them to admit they were in the wrong" when they don't think they actually did anything bad, that's not about repairing a relationship.
posted by Lady Li at 1:14 PM on July 30, 2021
But if you're trying to "demand an apology" from someone, to win an argument or to get points or to "force them to admit they were in the wrong" when they don't think they actually did anything bad, that's not about repairing a relationship.
posted by Lady Li at 1:14 PM on July 30, 2021
Response by poster: Thank you all for your input. In a particular instance "A" was telling me a story where "B", long time friend and quasi bed partner had a awful reaction to a statement made and yelled some expletives. A conversation was has where A said before B could speak "You better tell me you're sorry" and I know B to be the type to definitely not do as they are told especially without the benefit of a side of the argument. I told A that they are likely to run B down the road with that sorry of bossiness...it was just a piece of advice but I thought maybe if there is an apology to be had demanding it assures it gets done. But what do I know? I just was trying to make peace
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 5:04 AM on July 31, 2021
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 5:04 AM on July 31, 2021
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posted by pando11 at 9:03 PM on July 28, 2021