Accepted, then rejected from apprenticeship programme
July 16, 2021 11:20 PM Subscribe
I'm an American living in the UK. I was accepted into an apprenticeship programme, only to then be rejected because the partner university won't accept my high school math qualifications as equivalent to GCSE maths. No one from the university will speak to me directly. Who can I contact to get a complaint about this taken seriously?
Firstly, I graduated from high school 11 years ago, and in between, I've since gained both a BA and an MA. I provided proof of all my academic qualifications at the start of the months-long application process because they said they would be checking eligibility at the start of the programme, and at no point was any of this questioned until after they'd said I was successful in applying to the programme.
The apprenticeship programme coordinator told me that the university said they have looked at my transcript and they don't feel that I have achieved the equivalent of GCSE Maths. I started high school maths when I was in 7th grade so by my freshman year, I had already completed the WA State math standards. I have taken Algebra I, Geometry, and Pre-calculus/Trigonometry. I've also taken Economics and Statistics at a university level. These are all topics that are covered in GCSE Maths but because the topics are studied over the course of multiple years, rather than just the one year, there isn't something on my transcript that just says "Year 12 - Math".
I have been trying to contact someone from the university to explain the difference between the education systems, and that in the US, we don't take one year of GCSE-level math and it's spread out over several years instead. I have tried to explain that I have studied all the topics covered in the GCSE maths syllabus but no one will even respond to my emails.
The university are fobbing me off. The trade organisation partnered with the university are the only ones directly speaking with me and are saying they don't have direct contact info for someone, anyone at the university (which I'm pretty sure is a lie.)
At this point, I have very little hope for reversing the decision about the apprenticeship but I believe that the university has not assessed my qualifications properly and has, at no point, given me the opportunity to explain anything.
What organisation(s) in the UK can I contact to make a complaint?
Firstly, I graduated from high school 11 years ago, and in between, I've since gained both a BA and an MA. I provided proof of all my academic qualifications at the start of the months-long application process because they said they would be checking eligibility at the start of the programme, and at no point was any of this questioned until after they'd said I was successful in applying to the programme.
The apprenticeship programme coordinator told me that the university said they have looked at my transcript and they don't feel that I have achieved the equivalent of GCSE Maths. I started high school maths when I was in 7th grade so by my freshman year, I had already completed the WA State math standards. I have taken Algebra I, Geometry, and Pre-calculus/Trigonometry. I've also taken Economics and Statistics at a university level. These are all topics that are covered in GCSE Maths but because the topics are studied over the course of multiple years, rather than just the one year, there isn't something on my transcript that just says "Year 12 - Math".
I have been trying to contact someone from the university to explain the difference between the education systems, and that in the US, we don't take one year of GCSE-level math and it's spread out over several years instead. I have tried to explain that I have studied all the topics covered in the GCSE maths syllabus but no one will even respond to my emails.
The university are fobbing me off. The trade organisation partnered with the university are the only ones directly speaking with me and are saying they don't have direct contact info for someone, anyone at the university (which I'm pretty sure is a lie.)
At this point, I have very little hope for reversing the decision about the apprenticeship but I believe that the university has not assessed my qualifications properly and has, at no point, given me the opportunity to explain anything.
What organisation(s) in the UK can I contact to make a complaint?
Consider contacting an Ombudsman. It's awful that they rejected your mathematics qualifications.
The university should have an admissions office divided into each subject and a quick internet search should give you that department, for example Manchester University Biology, Medicine and Health. You should be able to contact someone directly that way and they work throughout the summer.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 1:14 AM on July 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
The university should have an admissions office divided into each subject and a quick internet search should give you that department, for example Manchester University Biology, Medicine and Health. You should be able to contact someone directly that way and they work throughout the summer.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 1:14 AM on July 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
You might consider mentioning that you are taking advice on age discrimination because the maths level sounds like an excuse - I know someone who got an interview decision reversed by doing this at my public sector employer, got offered the job, and has since had a promotion! I suggest this because if you got your masters 11 years ago you are probably older than the other apprentices and the gcse maths thing is so trivial it could be a red herring.
posted by hazyjane at 2:02 AM on July 17, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by hazyjane at 2:02 AM on July 17, 2021 [13 favorites]
If they don't budge on the requirements -- and I think this is age-ist unfairness -- you should be able to infill by getting the actual GCSE for free at a local adult education college: https://www.gov.uk/improve-english-maths-it-skills.
posted by k3ninho at 4:06 AM on July 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by k3ninho at 4:06 AM on July 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
I've done a fair amount of admissions stuff for a UK uni but not for an apprentice programme.
Was there any quantitative element to either your BA or MA? A module or two should easily match a GCSE from decades ago.
Find an UG programme at your preferred uni that asks for GCSE maths only and phone their admissions team anonymously and ask if your qualifications are equivalent. See what they say, it might give you some idea of whether something else is going on.
If this is the only reason for rejection can you ask to defer until next year and bang out a GCSE or equivalent?
Just trying to brainstorm other possible issues. I'm a bit suspicious about whether the university can draw down anything from its apprentice pot if you are not a UK citizen. All major UK employers pay into one, and the reason universities now run apprentice programmes is to get funds back out. Are you a US citizen only? I've no idea if this might be an issue for them and whether you have legal recourse if this is the underlying reason. I could be barking up the wrong tree here.
posted by biffa at 4:16 AM on July 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Was there any quantitative element to either your BA or MA? A module or two should easily match a GCSE from decades ago.
Find an UG programme at your preferred uni that asks for GCSE maths only and phone their admissions team anonymously and ask if your qualifications are equivalent. See what they say, it might give you some idea of whether something else is going on.
If this is the only reason for rejection can you ask to defer until next year and bang out a GCSE or equivalent?
Just trying to brainstorm other possible issues. I'm a bit suspicious about whether the university can draw down anything from its apprentice pot if you are not a UK citizen. All major UK employers pay into one, and the reason universities now run apprentice programmes is to get funds back out. Are you a US citizen only? I've no idea if this might be an issue for them and whether you have legal recourse if this is the underlying reason. I could be barking up the wrong tree here.
posted by biffa at 4:16 AM on July 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
I've previously been programme leader of a degree with a similar maths requirement, and this sounds really weird to me - if you've completed US high school and university-level maths courses (especially stats) then you've clearly met the requirements for GCSE-equivalent maths.
Admissions staff and programme leaders deal with hundreds of cases like this every year and will be familiar with the mapping process, so I suspect there's something else going wrong here. Perhaps the university's requirements are actually stricter than you've been told - e.g. they want specific topics to have been covered, or they want a particular grade, or there are funding constraints as biffa says above - and the industry partner isn't understanding or communicating this correctly.
I would recommend giving the university a phone call (not email) and asking to speak to someone in admissions. It's July, so most university staff are on annual leave at the moment, but there should be admissions staff around to deal with problems like this. Bear in mind that graduate apprenticeships usually have really small student numbers, so only very few teaching staff will be involved with them - they may well be hard to get hold of at the moment, and you may find that even if you end up talking to a duty head of department or similar then they don't know all the details of the application process.
(Also, "in the US, we don't take one year of GCSE-level math" - in the UK we don't either! The GCSE exams cover three years of study.)
posted by offog at 7:01 AM on July 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Admissions staff and programme leaders deal with hundreds of cases like this every year and will be familiar with the mapping process, so I suspect there's something else going wrong here. Perhaps the university's requirements are actually stricter than you've been told - e.g. they want specific topics to have been covered, or they want a particular grade, or there are funding constraints as biffa says above - and the industry partner isn't understanding or communicating this correctly.
I would recommend giving the university a phone call (not email) and asking to speak to someone in admissions. It's July, so most university staff are on annual leave at the moment, but there should be admissions staff around to deal with problems like this. Bear in mind that graduate apprenticeships usually have really small student numbers, so only very few teaching staff will be involved with them - they may well be hard to get hold of at the moment, and you may find that even if you end up talking to a duty head of department or similar then they don't know all the details of the application process.
(Also, "in the US, we don't take one year of GCSE-level math" - in the UK we don't either! The GCSE exams cover three years of study.)
posted by offog at 7:01 AM on July 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Just take the GCSE through a local college. Job done.
posted by Ardnamurchan at 7:48 AM on July 17, 2021
posted by Ardnamurchan at 7:48 AM on July 17, 2021
For reference, here is a GCSE maths syllabus. It doesn't seem a stretch to me (at all) that the default assumption is that someone who graduated from high school in the US would not have covered all the higher level GCSE topics (in particular, most of the probability and statistics topics, including the foundation level ones, aren't taught unless you took AP Stats). However, between your standard US high school math curriculum and a university statistics course or two, you probably have, the question is how you prove it. Ideally, you want to be armed with the WA curriculum standards from when you were in high school, plus the syllabi from whatever university courses.
(I laugh a bit at the notion that the university knows how to understand US qualifications, especially if equivalency is being considered by anyone but the undergraduate admissions people. When I was in high school, the US fell into the catch all "ignore the form and just write stuff down" part of the UCAS instructions. There seemed to be a loose understanding that AP Exams were kind of like less good A-levels and your class grades were worthless.)
posted by hoyland at 8:27 AM on July 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
(I laugh a bit at the notion that the university knows how to understand US qualifications, especially if equivalency is being considered by anyone but the undergraduate admissions people. When I was in high school, the US fell into the catch all "ignore the form and just write stuff down" part of the UCAS instructions. There seemed to be a loose understanding that AP Exams were kind of like less good A-levels and your class grades were worthless.)
posted by hoyland at 8:27 AM on July 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I laugh a bit at the notion that the university knows how to understand US qualificationsI
I respectfully disagree that this is universal. I have dealt with admissions at my own institution and been astonished at times by how much delineation they have between different qualifications within far more obscure education systems than the US.
posted by biffa at 8:33 AM on July 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I respectfully disagree that this is universal. I have dealt with admissions at my own institution and been astonished at times by how much delineation they have between different qualifications within far more obscure education systems than the US.
posted by biffa at 8:33 AM on July 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm not clear if you've been able to get hold of anyone at the university or who you've tried, and the problem is it varies from place to place, but if you can find a page on the university site for the programme it may give a programme co-ordinator, or you may be able to find the departmental administrator. Also do they have sections who deal with prospective students or international students? They may be able to advise you.
If you can't get anyone to talk to you, you could use a data protection/freedom of information route to find out how they assessed this. You can make a freedom of information request asking them to explain how GCSE maths equivalence is assessed for this programme for applicants holding US qualifications. Check who handles freedom of information requests at the institution and send it to them. That gives them a legal requirement to respond in 20 working days. You can also get the details relating to your application by making a subject access request and asking for the information they hold relating to your application. I think the time limit on that is a month.
To make a complaint to the institution see if they have an applicant complaint procedure. The ombudsman would usually need you to exhaust an organisations internal complaints procedures before they'll look at a complaint, but double check what the higher education one says.
posted by SometimeNextMonth at 10:50 AM on July 17, 2021
If you can't get anyone to talk to you, you could use a data protection/freedom of information route to find out how they assessed this. You can make a freedom of information request asking them to explain how GCSE maths equivalence is assessed for this programme for applicants holding US qualifications. Check who handles freedom of information requests at the institution and send it to them. That gives them a legal requirement to respond in 20 working days. You can also get the details relating to your application by making a subject access request and asking for the information they hold relating to your application. I think the time limit on that is a month.
To make a complaint to the institution see if they have an applicant complaint procedure. The ombudsman would usually need you to exhaust an organisations internal complaints procedures before they'll look at a complaint, but double check what the higher education one says.
posted by SometimeNextMonth at 10:50 AM on July 17, 2021
Ofqual have a department that deal specifically with academic equivalency internationally! I would contact that office if possible.
posted by eastboundanddown at 11:59 AM on July 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by eastboundanddown at 11:59 AM on July 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
At my Canadian university the person who might hear your appeal would be called the Registrar. After that it would be a senior administrator, maybe the Dean of the faculty. The institutional Ombudsman would be the ultimate recourse within the school. After that you could bring your case to the government Ombudsman if it was a public university. (This is just to give you an idea... Of course the complaint structure will be different in other countries. And applicants have far fewer complaint options that registered students would have.)
posted by cranberrymonger at 4:08 PM on July 17, 2021
posted by cranberrymonger at 4:08 PM on July 17, 2021
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posted by yellowcandy at 11:59 PM on July 16, 2021