Possibly contributed to my friend's iPhone water damage. What to do?
July 4, 2021 10:01 PM Subscribe
I went tubing with a good friend and their spouse today. We used a dry bag to keep our items inside. Friend stored their iPhone inside the dry bag. Water got inside the dry bag, and their phone was damaged/inoperable. I'm not sure exactly how it happened, but I suspect it was me who caused the incident. How should I proceed?
When we went tubing, the dry bag (which was a foreign concept that I wasn't aware existed) kept our items (snacks, keys, friend's iPhone, water bottles, etc.) dry without a problem. Friend and their spouse opened and closed the dry bag without any issues, and showed me how to open/close it.
About 3/4-way through our expedition, I got something out of the dry bag, and asked said friend to make sure I had closed the dry bag and wrapped it properly. Friend confirmed, said I had to wrap it up more (which I did), and confirmed that it was good to go.
We tubed, chilled, had fun, then disembarked. Upon getting on dry land, we were all dismayed to see that the dry bag had filled up with water. Friend's iPhone was in the bottom of the bag, and unfortunately was soaked. Worked initially but died eventually. Friend was devastated because they had important photos on there that were not backed up, and because of the potential replacement cost (they stated they did not have insurance on the phone; it was paid off in full via a monthly plan that was done). The iPhone was not in a zip bag.
I'm feeling guilty because while my friend did not blame me at all, I suspect I may have not closed the bag properly somehow; I am not sure if I was the last person to use the dry bag. It was just the three of us, but it was a bit hazy (hot weather, exhaustion), and it's possible someone else used the dry bag and didn't wrap it up properly, but I'm not sure. I feel I may have caused it to happen, especially as I was unfamiliar with the bag. Friend checked, no holes in the bag. It was about 1/2ish filled with water when we disembarked.
I have renter's insurance, which covers damaged devices (including iPhones) for a flat ~$100 deductible. Would you recommend I offer to utilize this to help replace their phone? It's ambiguous whether or not I was at fault, but I feel bad and hate seeing my friend be so upset about this. They also aren't the type to "speak up" or be assertive, so I'm also concerned that they're holding back. At no point did they say or seem to blame me, but my guilt is bothering me (even though it's an ambiguous situation).
Thanks for your perspective.
When we went tubing, the dry bag (which was a foreign concept that I wasn't aware existed) kept our items (snacks, keys, friend's iPhone, water bottles, etc.) dry without a problem. Friend and their spouse opened and closed the dry bag without any issues, and showed me how to open/close it.
About 3/4-way through our expedition, I got something out of the dry bag, and asked said friend to make sure I had closed the dry bag and wrapped it properly. Friend confirmed, said I had to wrap it up more (which I did), and confirmed that it was good to go.
We tubed, chilled, had fun, then disembarked. Upon getting on dry land, we were all dismayed to see that the dry bag had filled up with water. Friend's iPhone was in the bottom of the bag, and unfortunately was soaked. Worked initially but died eventually. Friend was devastated because they had important photos on there that were not backed up, and because of the potential replacement cost (they stated they did not have insurance on the phone; it was paid off in full via a monthly plan that was done). The iPhone was not in a zip bag.
I'm feeling guilty because while my friend did not blame me at all, I suspect I may have not closed the bag properly somehow; I am not sure if I was the last person to use the dry bag. It was just the three of us, but it was a bit hazy (hot weather, exhaustion), and it's possible someone else used the dry bag and didn't wrap it up properly, but I'm not sure. I feel I may have caused it to happen, especially as I was unfamiliar with the bag. Friend checked, no holes in the bag. It was about 1/2ish filled with water when we disembarked.
I have renter's insurance, which covers damaged devices (including iPhones) for a flat ~$100 deductible. Would you recommend I offer to utilize this to help replace their phone? It's ambiguous whether or not I was at fault, but I feel bad and hate seeing my friend be so upset about this. They also aren't the type to "speak up" or be assertive, so I'm also concerned that they're holding back. At no point did they say or seem to blame me, but my guilt is bothering me (even though it's an ambiguous situation).
Thanks for your perspective.
On the one hand, if your description of events is accurate, it sounds like this incident is exactly 0% your fault.
On the other hand, claiming your friend's phone on your insurance seems like it...may be insurance fraud?
posted by kickingtheground at 10:17 PM on July 4, 2021 [13 favorites]
On the other hand, claiming your friend's phone on your insurance seems like it...may be insurance fraud?
posted by kickingtheground at 10:17 PM on July 4, 2021 [13 favorites]
First, too late now, but friend should not have turned the phone on while it was wet. Also, putting it in rice is now considered not ideal. Should let it dry out naturally. Then, and only then try turning it on.
As for what to do now, I would call your insurance company and tell them that you screwed up the dry bag and ask if electronics in the (not so) dry bag is covered. Don't claim it is yours, take blame for possibly shorting out friend's phone.
Your friend watched you close the bag, suggested you wrap it some more which you did and the bag somehow got water in it. That does not sound like your fault. Shit happens as they say.
Also, for next time, why even have the phone with you if you are tubing and not using the phone on the river? Why not leave it in the car? And, if it was their wet bag or a rented one, why are you responsible for it not working properly? They knew you had never used one before. You did the right thing and asked if you had closed it properly. They confirmed it after you wrapped it some more.
Replacing the phone will not get the photos back. The photos are lost if they are not backed up or if that phone cannot turn on. Not sure how old the iPhone is, but I thought they were water proof up to a certain depth?
I think this falls under the category of I wish I knew then what I know now. Accidents happen. Sometimes no fault can be assigned. Bad luck.
posted by AugustWest at 10:48 PM on July 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
As for what to do now, I would call your insurance company and tell them that you screwed up the dry bag and ask if electronics in the (not so) dry bag is covered. Don't claim it is yours, take blame for possibly shorting out friend's phone.
Your friend watched you close the bag, suggested you wrap it some more which you did and the bag somehow got water in it. That does not sound like your fault. Shit happens as they say.
Also, for next time, why even have the phone with you if you are tubing and not using the phone on the river? Why not leave it in the car? And, if it was their wet bag or a rented one, why are you responsible for it not working properly? They knew you had never used one before. You did the right thing and asked if you had closed it properly. They confirmed it after you wrapped it some more.
Replacing the phone will not get the photos back. The photos are lost if they are not backed up or if that phone cannot turn on. Not sure how old the iPhone is, but I thought they were water proof up to a certain depth?
I think this falls under the category of I wish I knew then what I know now. Accidents happen. Sometimes no fault can be assigned. Bad luck.
posted by AugustWest at 10:48 PM on July 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yes, I wouldn't beat yourself up over this - you checked the bag was ok and your friend confirmed, so it's not your fault. I wouldn't get insurance involved - never a pleasure to deal with and just adds hassle (and possibly fraud!). And if they are upset but not blaming you, then I'm sure they don't.
It's a horrible thing to have happened but lesson learned about drybags and expensive electronics - if they are open to suggestions maybe you can help with trying to rescue the iphone?
posted by sedimentary_deer at 12:12 AM on July 5, 2021
It's a horrible thing to have happened but lesson learned about drybags and expensive electronics - if they are open to suggestions maybe you can help with trying to rescue the iphone?
posted by sedimentary_deer at 12:12 AM on July 5, 2021
I don’t think in any way that this was your fault. It wasn’t your bag, the friend confirmed you were using it correctly and even checked it, and they were the one to decide to take the risk with their phone in water in the first place. It’s entirely on them. I mean, sure, feel bad for them but don’t take the blame or involve your insurance.
posted by Jubey at 12:24 AM on July 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 12:24 AM on July 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
I think someone might be trying to guilt you into a new phone here. For a start, only the very oldest iPhones aren't ok with getting wet. And kind of the whole point of them is that everything is always backed up to icloud and can't be lost.
Someone else put their phone into someone else's dry bag, and someone else checked that you'd closed it properly? This is nothing to do with you and the unethical thing to do is to claim on your insurance
posted by tillsbury at 5:13 AM on July 5, 2021
Someone else put their phone into someone else's dry bag, and someone else checked that you'd closed it properly? This is nothing to do with you and the unethical thing to do is to claim on your insurance
posted by tillsbury at 5:13 AM on July 5, 2021
1. This is not your fault, for the reasons covered above.
2. Your friend who put an uninsured, not-backed-up iPhone into a shared dry bag to go tubing made a bad choice. Sorry for them, but they gambled and lost.
posted by Salamander at 5:24 AM on July 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
2. Your friend who put an uninsured, not-backed-up iPhone into a shared dry bag to go tubing made a bad choice. Sorry for them, but they gambled and lost.
posted by Salamander at 5:24 AM on July 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for all the helpful replies. I agree that this was an unfortunate situation, and probably not the best idea for my friend to bring the phone in the dry bag, unsecured. It was definitely not intentional on their part, and they did not make me feel guilty intentionally — I understood the context behind why they were upset about the pictures (deceased dog, a recent vacation, etc), and they were explaining to me why they were so upset. At no point during our day together did they blame me or say something like "you should have wrapped the bag better" (they said "I wish the dry bag was secured better" but did not specifically blame me).
As for insurance, fraud was never my intention. As my renter's insurance covers liability, and has a rider for technology coverage with a low deductible (outside of the normal $500 deductible for general losses), I figured that might be an option. I could be wrong, however.
To protect myself, what would you recommend I do if at some point, friend turns around and says something along the lines of "we realized you were the last person who wrapped the bag, we feel this was caused by you. Can you pay for my phone?" I kind of doubt that would happen (we spent all day and the evening together, and this happened about halfway into the day, and I asked my friend later on if they were upset with me, and was told no, not at all — plenty of opportunities for them to bring it up right there), but wanted to have a script ready in case.
posted by dubious_dude at 5:58 AM on July 5, 2021
As for insurance, fraud was never my intention. As my renter's insurance covers liability, and has a rider for technology coverage with a low deductible (outside of the normal $500 deductible for general losses), I figured that might be an option. I could be wrong, however.
To protect myself, what would you recommend I do if at some point, friend turns around and says something along the lines of "we realized you were the last person who wrapped the bag, we feel this was caused by you. Can you pay for my phone?" I kind of doubt that would happen (we spent all day and the evening together, and this happened about halfway into the day, and I asked my friend later on if they were upset with me, and was told no, not at all — plenty of opportunities for them to bring it up right there), but wanted to have a script ready in case.
posted by dubious_dude at 5:58 AM on July 5, 2021
"turns out we all trusted a dry bag that wasn't so dry. I felt bad so I looked it up online. Sounds like most people double bag electronics or just don't trust dry bags. Lesson learned I guess. Good luck with your replacement! Did you know iPhones have been waterproof since the iPhone 7? So in today's dollars that's only $105 on swappa for a waterproof phone! Have you checked iCloud.com for your photos? With photo stream turned on, which it is by default, all your photos will be there!"
posted by bbqturtle at 6:16 AM on July 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by bbqturtle at 6:16 AM on July 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
To protect myself, what would you recommend I do if at some point, friend turns around and says something along the lines of "we realized you were the last person who wrapped the bag, we feel this was caused by you. Can you pay for my phone?"
"No" is a complete sentence.
There's no point trying to justify yourself to unreasonable people, so there's no point trying to plan for how to do it.
At the moment, it sounds like they're being reasonable about it. If they stop being reasonable, see above.
posted by automatronic at 7:32 AM on July 5, 2021
"No" is a complete sentence.
There's no point trying to justify yourself to unreasonable people, so there's no point trying to plan for how to do it.
At the moment, it sounds like they're being reasonable about it. If they stop being reasonable, see above.
posted by automatronic at 7:32 AM on July 5, 2021
The owner of the phone is responsible for what happens to it, not the person who was sharing the bag it was stored in. Yes, you have a duty to be careful, which you were, and which was confirmed by the owner of the bag. The phone owner made the mistake here, first in bringing the phone in the first place, secondly by not double-bagging the phone, and thirdly, by not having complete and sole control of the dry bag. When we go canoeing with our friends, ONE person brings a phone in case of emergency, it is triple-ziplocked and placed in a dry bag, and the phone bringer has complete and sole control over said dry bag. That may sound like overkill but we've done it this way for years and never once have we lost a phone to water.
Now, if you had intentionally thrown the phone in the water? Yeah, you pay for a new phone. But in this case, you are simply not responsible for this.
posted by cooker girl at 9:14 AM on July 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
Now, if you had intentionally thrown the phone in the water? Yeah, you pay for a new phone. But in this case, you are simply not responsible for this.
posted by cooker girl at 9:14 AM on July 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yeah, you're 100% not to blame here - I also have experience with dry bags, and they perhaps should be called dry-ish bags. I'd never put an expensive piece of electronic equipment in them, at least not without triple bagging them.
But if your insurance could potentially cover this without lying to them (which seems weird to me given this didn't happen in your apartment), then sure, it would be nice to offer this - but I'd have them pay the $100 replacement fee.
posted by coffeecat at 10:11 AM on July 5, 2021
But if your insurance could potentially cover this without lying to them (which seems weird to me given this didn't happen in your apartment), then sure, it would be nice to offer this - but I'd have them pay the $100 replacement fee.
posted by coffeecat at 10:11 AM on July 5, 2021
what would you recommend I do if at some point, friend turns around and says something along the lines of "we realized you were the last person who wrapped the bag, we feel this was caused by you. Can you pay for my phone?"
This seems unlikely, but would be real bullshit if it does. So recommendation number one is that you avoid all thought and appearance that this is even partly your fault. Don’t even mention that you even might be thinking anything of the sort, because that might influence your friend to think similarly. Is there any indication your friend may blame you?
If your friend does try to pull something like this, in addition to saying “no” you can point out that the friend made the choice to put the iPhone in a “dry” bag they should have known was not foolproof (if I’m reading correctly that the owner of the iPhone and the dry bag are one and the same) with no additional protection such as a ziplock bag, that your friend also opened and closed the bag and can’t definitively say you were the last person to open it before water got inside, and that your friend confirmed that you had closed the bag properly at which point your friend had the opportunity to close it him/herself (which is what I would have done if the bag were the only protection for my valuable iPhone). What more could you have done? This all adds up to a big (dry) bag of nope, not your responsibility.
It can’t even be asserted that you acted negligently in any way with respect to the dry bag, even if you were the last one to handle it before it failed. Who can even say whether or not it was insufficiently secured at all? It could simply have failed to perform as it should have. Anyone who has done any amount of camping, canoeing, etc. knows to pack items of clothes, etc. separately inside heavy duty ziplocks even though it’s all going inside a waterproof bag, because everyone finds water in their “waterproof” bag eventually if they go out enough times.
What you owe your friend is sympathy, and that’s it.
posted by slkinsey at 11:17 AM on July 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
This seems unlikely, but would be real bullshit if it does. So recommendation number one is that you avoid all thought and appearance that this is even partly your fault. Don’t even mention that you even might be thinking anything of the sort, because that might influence your friend to think similarly. Is there any indication your friend may blame you?
If your friend does try to pull something like this, in addition to saying “no” you can point out that the friend made the choice to put the iPhone in a “dry” bag they should have known was not foolproof (if I’m reading correctly that the owner of the iPhone and the dry bag are one and the same) with no additional protection such as a ziplock bag, that your friend also opened and closed the bag and can’t definitively say you were the last person to open it before water got inside, and that your friend confirmed that you had closed the bag properly at which point your friend had the opportunity to close it him/herself (which is what I would have done if the bag were the only protection for my valuable iPhone). What more could you have done? This all adds up to a big (dry) bag of nope, not your responsibility.
It can’t even be asserted that you acted negligently in any way with respect to the dry bag, even if you were the last one to handle it before it failed. Who can even say whether or not it was insufficiently secured at all? It could simply have failed to perform as it should have. Anyone who has done any amount of camping, canoeing, etc. knows to pack items of clothes, etc. separately inside heavy duty ziplocks even though it’s all going inside a waterproof bag, because everyone finds water in their “waterproof” bag eventually if they go out enough times.
What you owe your friend is sympathy, and that’s it.
posted by slkinsey at 11:17 AM on July 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
Your friend can probably have the pictures recovered by someone like this for a reasonable price.
posted by jackmakrl at 1:54 PM on July 5, 2021
posted by jackmakrl at 1:54 PM on July 5, 2021
Everyone I know who has used a drybag more than a handful of times has had it totally fail at least one of those times. They are both finicky to use and not 100% reliable even if used correctly. Especially during something like tubing where it's being moved around and hitting rocks, and potentially underwater for long periods.
posted by hermanubis at 10:19 PM on July 5, 2021
posted by hermanubis at 10:19 PM on July 5, 2021
Agree with everyone else (including your friend!) that this wasn't your fault. Your renter's insurance will almost certainly not cover this, as it happened outside of your place. Signed, someone who had a person spill a bunch of tea on his laptop and tried to get renter's insurance to cover it.
posted by Ragged Richard at 1:09 PM on July 6, 2021
posted by Ragged Richard at 1:09 PM on July 6, 2021
Response by poster: Thanks for the helpful answers, everyone. Much appreciated. I'll let this go and in the (unlikely) scenario that they try to pursue payment from me, use the recommended scripts/explain why I feel I am not culpable.
posted by dubious_dude at 6:53 PM on July 6, 2021
posted by dubious_dude at 6:53 PM on July 6, 2021
Best to follow the golden rule. In other words, if I were in this situation and *felt* I contributed to the end result, I'd take the responsibility and offer a reasonable amount that they are also comfortable accepting. Keep the receipt/record if you do.
posted by xm at 3:59 PM on July 7, 2021
posted by xm at 3:59 PM on July 7, 2021
This thread is closed to new comments.
Also no disrespect to your friend but if they just lobbed a loose iPhone into the bottom of a drybag while tubing down a river that's .... not ideal. Drybags are great but they certainly aren't 100% effective, speaking as someone who used them for years for forestry work. On heavy rain days they would get condensation on the inside. For tubing I would have had the phone in a waterproof pelican case, wrapped in some clothing, and then in the drybag.
posted by mannequito at 10:12 PM on July 4, 2021 [11 favorites]