Help me not shrink myself into nothing and waste a cool experience
July 1, 2021 12:01 AM Subscribe
I'm spending some time in an environment that is awesome but challenging and I'm not coping very well but I would like to spend another week or so here. At the moment I'm super in my shell and barely say anything to anyone and have trouble engaging in tasks or coming up with ideas because I'm so in my own head. I always experience this in new and challenging contexts and regret it afterwards and I don't want this to be just another one of those times.
Long story short I've ended up temporarily living with some really cool people doing some really cool things (art/environment related) and I'm really struggling to express myself or be engaged. I've been socially anxious and suffered bouts of depression on and off since my early teens (in mid-20s now) and recently had a particularly bad depression spell which I only succeeded in distracting myself from but not actually overcoming, in that when I had a free moment I would be overwhelmed by feelings of inadequacy and self-hatred.
Now I'm in a context where I'm living with a big-ish group of people who are all really skilled at things like art and music and are mostly good friends with one another and while they're fairly welcoming I'm really struggling to feel like I have something to contribute to the space and others. I've had moments where I've contributed stuff and felt useful and connected to others but the last few days I've just withdrawn completely into myself and even making conversation with someone feels like a huge effort and something I shouldn't even be doing because I have nothing worthwhile to say because I'm so sad and also so worthless. A lot of the people here have really cool skills and I don't really have anything to offer, I've only recently started learning music and can play a bit but not well enough to play for others, and even when I try do stuff I'm ok at like cooking I don't feel confident enough to suggest recipes or come up with ideas. Then if I do make a suggestion or effort sometimes I just get things wrong because I'm so caught up in my rumination that I can't properly think about anything. I feel like a big empty hole and am just hanging out in isolated areas trying to interact as little as possible, but that just makes me feel more alone and worthless. I've called some friends to chat and that's been nice but I still feel really lost and don't know how to get myself out of this.
I've had this happen most times when I've gone outside my comfort zone - when I did a month long mountain hike overseas when I was 15, when I moved to Spain when I was 18, when I recently quit my job and travelled in a van for a month. Each of these experiences is marked for me not by a sense of adventure but by depression, anxiety and loneliness. I would withdraw into myself, not assert myself at all, and end up doing nothing I actually enjoyed, as well as feeling really outside everything and like I was missing out. I'm really scared this experience I'm having now will go the same way. I'm so sad and tired of the fact that whenever I try to live this big life I dream about this big dark feeling gets in the way and steals all the joy out of what could be a beautiful experience.
I ask a lot of questions on here so maybe some of you will remember me from my last one, which I really appreciated all the answers on. Sorry to take up more of everyone's time, but I'd appreciate any thoughts people might have on what I can do in the short-term to not waste this experience.
Long story short I've ended up temporarily living with some really cool people doing some really cool things (art/environment related) and I'm really struggling to express myself or be engaged. I've been socially anxious and suffered bouts of depression on and off since my early teens (in mid-20s now) and recently had a particularly bad depression spell which I only succeeded in distracting myself from but not actually overcoming, in that when I had a free moment I would be overwhelmed by feelings of inadequacy and self-hatred.
Now I'm in a context where I'm living with a big-ish group of people who are all really skilled at things like art and music and are mostly good friends with one another and while they're fairly welcoming I'm really struggling to feel like I have something to contribute to the space and others. I've had moments where I've contributed stuff and felt useful and connected to others but the last few days I've just withdrawn completely into myself and even making conversation with someone feels like a huge effort and something I shouldn't even be doing because I have nothing worthwhile to say because I'm so sad and also so worthless. A lot of the people here have really cool skills and I don't really have anything to offer, I've only recently started learning music and can play a bit but not well enough to play for others, and even when I try do stuff I'm ok at like cooking I don't feel confident enough to suggest recipes or come up with ideas. Then if I do make a suggestion or effort sometimes I just get things wrong because I'm so caught up in my rumination that I can't properly think about anything. I feel like a big empty hole and am just hanging out in isolated areas trying to interact as little as possible, but that just makes me feel more alone and worthless. I've called some friends to chat and that's been nice but I still feel really lost and don't know how to get myself out of this.
I've had this happen most times when I've gone outside my comfort zone - when I did a month long mountain hike overseas when I was 15, when I moved to Spain when I was 18, when I recently quit my job and travelled in a van for a month. Each of these experiences is marked for me not by a sense of adventure but by depression, anxiety and loneliness. I would withdraw into myself, not assert myself at all, and end up doing nothing I actually enjoyed, as well as feeling really outside everything and like I was missing out. I'm really scared this experience I'm having now will go the same way. I'm so sad and tired of the fact that whenever I try to live this big life I dream about this big dark feeling gets in the way and steals all the joy out of what could be a beautiful experience.
I ask a lot of questions on here so maybe some of you will remember me from my last one, which I really appreciated all the answers on. Sorry to take up more of everyone's time, but I'd appreciate any thoughts people might have on what I can do in the short-term to not waste this experience.
I'm afraid I don't have any proper solutions, I struggle with pretty much the same stuff. The spiral of 'I should be having fun and be outgoing and creative' to feeling bad about not being able to do that and back again is hard to break out of, in my experience. But letting go of expectations and the feeling of obligation and focusing on being kind to yourself and doing things you are currently able to do can really make a difference.
Also, if you like podcasts, I recommend this Heavyweight episode. It's about someone in a quite similar situation (failing to live up to his LA art loft dreams) because of social anxiety. It doesn't provide a solution, but it was very relatable for me and nice to commiserate.
posted by snusmumrik at 2:15 AM on July 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
Also, if you like podcasts, I recommend this Heavyweight episode. It's about someone in a quite similar situation (failing to live up to his LA art loft dreams) because of social anxiety. It doesn't provide a solution, but it was very relatable for me and nice to commiserate.
posted by snusmumrik at 2:15 AM on July 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
Pretend you are an actor playing a character who is an extrovert and who dives into everything and enjoys whatever happens. And keep diving!
posted by lulu68 at 2:30 AM on July 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by lulu68 at 2:30 AM on July 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
Seconding and thirding zumbador's big act (and being kind to yourself), I do this when I take part in groups and do presentations, I'm a different person, people seems to enjoy it, my (terribly long in my head) pauses aren't even noticed by others (they're too busy acting too!).
I do sometimes game things a bit, even write a simple script, and read some words aloud beforehand.
In normal life I'm an extreme introvert / intj / zero social contact person but the acting side is fun (occasionally), and keeps me in work and in new ideas, and sometimes I meet cool people I really want to see again. So please, go and act, and go well.
posted by unearthed at 2:38 AM on July 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
I do sometimes game things a bit, even write a simple script, and read some words aloud beforehand.
In normal life I'm an extreme introvert / intj / zero social contact person but the acting side is fun (occasionally), and keeps me in work and in new ideas, and sometimes I meet cool people I really want to see again. So please, go and act, and go well.
posted by unearthed at 2:38 AM on July 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
Is there one person in particular you especially like? Focus on being friendly to that one individual. Give yourself an assignment to say one thing to that person every day. And then you’re done. It can be asking if they need help if they are making dinner. It can be expressing interest at how they got so good at X. It can be an open-ended question or it can be honest: “it is really hard for me to say this but sometimes I feel like I’m not adding much to the group. Do you think there’s anything I can do to make a contribution to the group before I leave?”
Most people are mostly wrapped up in their own selves, ourselves included. Usually others are not thinking about us as much as we think they are. But our thoughts and our anxieties aren’t rational. When our brains are sending us non-helpful messages, we have to push past our discomfort if we want to change. That is hard but valuable work. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 3:14 AM on July 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
Most people are mostly wrapped up in their own selves, ourselves included. Usually others are not thinking about us as much as we think they are. But our thoughts and our anxieties aren’t rational. When our brains are sending us non-helpful messages, we have to push past our discomfort if we want to change. That is hard but valuable work. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 3:14 AM on July 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
I feel you. Yes, watch your inner dialog and don't berate yourself.
Try leaning in to your beginner-ness. Maybe approach skilled people (if they seem to have the time) for advice on your music practice or your cooking. People dearly love to instruct and give advice, especially if you genuinely pay attention.
Being a wobbly newbie is a really honourable and productive state, full of potential and possibility. Periods of intense vulnerability like this are painful but very useful in the long run.
You sound like a very sensitive person with a lot of self-awareness and I have a hunch that things will shift for you soon. Just ride out the discomfort.
posted by Grunyon at 3:20 AM on July 1, 2021 [12 favorites]
Try leaning in to your beginner-ness. Maybe approach skilled people (if they seem to have the time) for advice on your music practice or your cooking. People dearly love to instruct and give advice, especially if you genuinely pay attention.
Being a wobbly newbie is a really honourable and productive state, full of potential and possibility. Periods of intense vulnerability like this are painful but very useful in the long run.
You sound like a very sensitive person with a lot of self-awareness and I have a hunch that things will shift for you soon. Just ride out the discomfort.
posted by Grunyon at 3:20 AM on July 1, 2021 [12 favorites]
Sorry to take up more of everyone's time
If you are worried that you are imposing on other people by asking questions here in this completely voluntary forum for advice-giving where no one has to click on your question if they don't want to, let alone answer it, then I can see where you feel like maybe you're imposing on the other people in your living situation by trying your own artistic or creative ideas in a place dedicated to trying out artistic ideas and creation. Whatever part of your brain is telling you that you don't deserve to participate in forums that are designed specifically for such participation is being a jerk to you, though. I don't have any advice or solutions, but artistic creation involves trying out different things, most of which won't work or be of interest to other people, on the way to creating the exciting thing. And you deserve that opportunity to create and grow as much as anyone else! You deserve and belong in these spaces that you are worried about taking up.
posted by eviemath at 6:27 AM on July 1, 2021 [14 favorites]
If you are worried that you are imposing on other people by asking questions here in this completely voluntary forum for advice-giving where no one has to click on your question if they don't want to, let alone answer it, then I can see where you feel like maybe you're imposing on the other people in your living situation by trying your own artistic or creative ideas in a place dedicated to trying out artistic ideas and creation. Whatever part of your brain is telling you that you don't deserve to participate in forums that are designed specifically for such participation is being a jerk to you, though. I don't have any advice or solutions, but artistic creation involves trying out different things, most of which won't work or be of interest to other people, on the way to creating the exciting thing. And you deserve that opportunity to create and grow as much as anyone else! You deserve and belong in these spaces that you are worried about taking up.
posted by eviemath at 6:27 AM on July 1, 2021 [14 favorites]
I am introverted and I find it very difficult to be around people all the time, they can be the nicest, most open folks but I’d find the constant contact draining. I mention this because group travel or shared houses inevitably result in my being miserable and withdrawing fully, if I don’t carve out sufficient time for myself where I can be alone. I am sure there are a lot of other things going on in your situation and you’ve had great advice for that. But if introversion is also relevant for you make sure you get this alone time. It will make the time you spend with the group much more enjoyable. And try to build specific 1:1 connections with people the rest of the time.
posted by koahiatamadl at 8:39 AM on July 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by koahiatamadl at 8:39 AM on July 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
You will be a better part of this community if you be the best yourself you can be, not by trying to be someone else. Listen to your boundaries, do self-care, relate to people on your terms, not what you think you should be.
posted by matildaben at 8:50 AM on July 1, 2021
posted by matildaben at 8:50 AM on July 1, 2021
Younger me felt this way - I went through a period where it seemed like friendships were contingent on being "x" enough - whether "x" be creative, funny, successful, good at cooking, etc. It sounds like you're worried that in order to hang out with these "really cool people doing some really cool things" you also must be really cool in the exact same way/degree.
If that's true, well, that's them being immature and not realizing that it's possible to have wonderful friendships with different types of people. But it's also entirely possible that this worry is all in your head - and based on what you've written, it sounds like that this is likely the case. I know this is easier said than done, but try not to worry whether you bond with these people or not, and try to take comfort in the fact that this is a temporary situation.
Finally, if there is any favor you can ask of these people, ask! It might sound counterintuitive, but people generally like to help other people - it's a bit of an ego boost. So, if you want to learn how to cook something one of these people is good at or learn how to play an instrument they play - ask for a lesson! Offer to buy them dinner or a bottle of wine if they do. And then you'll be hanging out in a semi-structured way, which might make conversation a bit easier.
posted by coffeecat at 10:32 AM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
If that's true, well, that's them being immature and not realizing that it's possible to have wonderful friendships with different types of people. But it's also entirely possible that this worry is all in your head - and based on what you've written, it sounds like that this is likely the case. I know this is easier said than done, but try not to worry whether you bond with these people or not, and try to take comfort in the fact that this is a temporary situation.
Finally, if there is any favor you can ask of these people, ask! It might sound counterintuitive, but people generally like to help other people - it's a bit of an ego boost. So, if you want to learn how to cook something one of these people is good at or learn how to play an instrument they play - ask for a lesson! Offer to buy them dinner or a bottle of wine if they do. And then you'll be hanging out in a semi-structured way, which might make conversation a bit easier.
posted by coffeecat at 10:32 AM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
It sounds like you're worried that in order to hang out with these "really cool people doing some really cool things" you also must be really cool in the exact same way/degree.
A side note on that topic that is probably not relevant here: one thing I've learned living in a town with a very vibrant local music scene for a number of years, and being someone who enjoys live music quite a lot but hasn't spent the time to get good at any specific instrument myself, is that art needs and audience. That my non-music-producing but music-appreciating self is still an integral part of my town's local music scene being so vibrant, for example.
posted by eviemath at 11:52 AM on July 1, 2021 [9 favorites]
A side note on that topic that is probably not relevant here: one thing I've learned living in a town with a very vibrant local music scene for a number of years, and being someone who enjoys live music quite a lot but hasn't spent the time to get good at any specific instrument myself, is that art needs and audience. That my non-music-producing but music-appreciating self is still an integral part of my town's local music scene being so vibrant, for example.
posted by eviemath at 11:52 AM on July 1, 2021 [9 favorites]
I related to a lot of this too much, so I might be projecting a little. I haven't solved it either, but I'm making some progress with these mental strategies:
-Notice when I'm feeling anxious or thoughts are spiraling
-Acknowledge the thoughts and what that part of me is trying to do (generally protect me from getting embarrassed or hurt)
-Respond to that part of myself that’s anxious “I’m going to take care of you but you’re not going to lead right now”
-If I'm feeling more overwhelmed just focus on "this is a feeling, this will pass"
These people may be more skilled or cooler than you, but you definitely also have power in your individual interactions to affect how they feel in the moment (i.e. it's not a one-way power dynamic).
This might be your only chance with this particular cool experience and group, but it is definitely NOT your only chance with cool experiences and people. Any progress you make here is great and a step to having an even better experience next time. Like success for now can be somewhere in between crushing loneliness/regret and super-integrated fully actualized enjoyment.
posted by Gravel at 1:10 PM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
-Notice when I'm feeling anxious or thoughts are spiraling
-Acknowledge the thoughts and what that part of me is trying to do (generally protect me from getting embarrassed or hurt)
-Respond to that part of myself that’s anxious “I’m going to take care of you but you’re not going to lead right now”
-If I'm feeling more overwhelmed just focus on "this is a feeling, this will pass"
These people may be more skilled or cooler than you, but you definitely also have power in your individual interactions to affect how they feel in the moment (i.e. it's not a one-way power dynamic).
This might be your only chance with this particular cool experience and group, but it is definitely NOT your only chance with cool experiences and people. Any progress you make here is great and a step to having an even better experience next time. Like success for now can be somewhere in between crushing loneliness/regret and super-integrated fully actualized enjoyment.
posted by Gravel at 1:10 PM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
One the annoying but actually smart things my mom always said to me when I was younger was, "For everything you do in life, someone will always be better at it, and someone will always be worse at it."
While maybe it's possible that some of us will be the "best" at one single thing, the reality of it is that someone there is a more talented cook at some recipes, and someone plays drums better than you, and someone sings more on key. And also, someone is a worse cook than you, and worse at coming up with ideas for things to cook, and worse at you than playing piano, worse at painting landscapes, and worse than you at living a life of adventure. And guess what? No one cares!
The thing is, no one is organizing these things because they only want to see the one thing where you are excellent. They want you to cook so you can share in cooking and community. They want you to contribute your art so you can share in community and generating ideas. They want you to participate in music for community and liveliness and a new perspective they don't have.
I am worthless at many things, and kinda okay at many others. This has no bearing on my intrinsic worth as a human. This situation you are in is not a competition, to see who is the best. This is community, and you have value as a human who can do some things in different ways. That's it. It's a low bar, right?
You are clearly someone who wants and seeks adventures, and that's fantastic! I have lived in a few different places in the world and yet I have never been brave enough to venture into these kinds of things on my own, so I admire you for that. You really go for it, and that's amazing!
So here you go on incredible adventures... and then you seem to create a high bar for success in those things, and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where you fail because you think you are failing.
You don't have to connect with everyone and feel fully part of this place to have a good experience. You are striving for a "beautiful experience," which is a really high bar again! But what if you tried to connect with one person, and share one thing, each day? You are getting something out of this place and want to make the most of it. But instead of going for ultimate community and connection, try to chat/share art/play music with one person each day. That's it! Try to focus on the little picture and taking baby steps. The extraordinary might or might not come, but it's going to be compromised of small things that add up. So go for some small things.
If there's someone there you feel more comfortable with, who seems kind, then maybe try saying to them, "I think my social anxiety is getting the best of me and I'm feeling quite vulnerable. I appreciate you talking and sharing with me." Then don't worry if your food isn't perfect or your art isn't the best. Aim for being authentic rather than perfect.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:36 PM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
While maybe it's possible that some of us will be the "best" at one single thing, the reality of it is that someone there is a more talented cook at some recipes, and someone plays drums better than you, and someone sings more on key. And also, someone is a worse cook than you, and worse at coming up with ideas for things to cook, and worse at you than playing piano, worse at painting landscapes, and worse than you at living a life of adventure. And guess what? No one cares!
The thing is, no one is organizing these things because they only want to see the one thing where you are excellent. They want you to cook so you can share in cooking and community. They want you to contribute your art so you can share in community and generating ideas. They want you to participate in music for community and liveliness and a new perspective they don't have.
I am worthless at many things, and kinda okay at many others. This has no bearing on my intrinsic worth as a human. This situation you are in is not a competition, to see who is the best. This is community, and you have value as a human who can do some things in different ways. That's it. It's a low bar, right?
You are clearly someone who wants and seeks adventures, and that's fantastic! I have lived in a few different places in the world and yet I have never been brave enough to venture into these kinds of things on my own, so I admire you for that. You really go for it, and that's amazing!
So here you go on incredible adventures... and then you seem to create a high bar for success in those things, and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where you fail because you think you are failing.
You don't have to connect with everyone and feel fully part of this place to have a good experience. You are striving for a "beautiful experience," which is a really high bar again! But what if you tried to connect with one person, and share one thing, each day? You are getting something out of this place and want to make the most of it. But instead of going for ultimate community and connection, try to chat/share art/play music with one person each day. That's it! Try to focus on the little picture and taking baby steps. The extraordinary might or might not come, but it's going to be compromised of small things that add up. So go for some small things.
If there's someone there you feel more comfortable with, who seems kind, then maybe try saying to them, "I think my social anxiety is getting the best of me and I'm feeling quite vulnerable. I appreciate you talking and sharing with me." Then don't worry if your food isn't perfect or your art isn't the best. Aim for being authentic rather than perfect.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:36 PM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
Yes, what bluedaisy said.
My strategy has sometimes been the following:
1) Figure out which person you're closest to / most comfortable with in the group. Even if that isn't a high level of closeness / comfort.
2) Go to that person and say something like, "I've been lost in my head the last couple of days, help me DO something."
3) Do the thing.
Don't think I don't know how terrifying that is.
posted by Horkus at 2:24 PM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
My strategy has sometimes been the following:
1) Figure out which person you're closest to / most comfortable with in the group. Even if that isn't a high level of closeness / comfort.
2) Go to that person and say something like, "I've been lost in my head the last couple of days, help me DO something."
3) Do the thing.
Don't think I don't know how terrifying that is.
posted by Horkus at 2:24 PM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: thanks everyone for your responses so far, they're really helpful! I'm struggling at the moment because I feel so sensitive to everything that happens when I try to put myself out there a bit more.. like last night I made some overnight oats for people to have for breakfast (we have communal breakfasts) and this morning I came out to the kitchen to two people making rice pudding for everyone and I was like oh did you see the oats and they were like yeah people can just choose between them, which felt like a rejection because normally we just do the one meal.. then one of them asked me how I felt about going back home, to which I said oh well I hope to stay for a bit longer and they responded well you're welcome to stay as long as you like but it felt kind of disingenuous maybe and why would they have asked the question in the first place if they didn't want me to leave.. it just feels like these subtle ways of saying they don't want me here and now I've lost the confidence I had mustered up to try be more engaged today :( it's just such a fragile thing but I also feel disappointed with myself for being so fragile about it
posted by fantasticbotanical at 3:03 PM on July 1, 2021
posted by fantasticbotanical at 3:03 PM on July 1, 2021
they responded well you're welcome to stay as long as you like but it felt kind of disingenuous
Okay! Let's break out facts and feelings! Here is a fact: they said, "you're welcome to stay as long as you like."
Here is a feeling: "it felt kind of disingenuous."
Your brain is tricking you. Believe these people. Because I think it's your brain, not these people, telling you to leave. Or, a more generous interpretation is that they can see you're keeping to yourself and are worried you aren't having a good time. Maybe they think you don't like them!
It sounds like you are feeling sensitive and reactive. And then you're getting mad at yourself for being that way. Remember what folks here are telling you: talk to ONE person. At this point, you are ready to bolt. So talking to someone isn't really much of a risk, because your brain is telling you to flee anyway.
I think these people will be nicer to you than you are being to yourself.
posted by bluedaisy at 5:36 PM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
Okay! Let's break out facts and feelings! Here is a fact: they said, "you're welcome to stay as long as you like."
Here is a feeling: "it felt kind of disingenuous."
Your brain is tricking you. Believe these people. Because I think it's your brain, not these people, telling you to leave. Or, a more generous interpretation is that they can see you're keeping to yourself and are worried you aren't having a good time. Maybe they think you don't like them!
It sounds like you are feeling sensitive and reactive. And then you're getting mad at yourself for being that way. Remember what folks here are telling you: talk to ONE person. At this point, you are ready to bolt. So talking to someone isn't really much of a risk, because your brain is telling you to flee anyway.
I think these people will be nicer to you than you are being to yourself.
posted by bluedaisy at 5:36 PM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
If you find experiences like this exhausting and you wind up feeling bad about yourself, you don’t have to do them! You can still have adventures and meet people and then retreat back to your own space / go home after a week / spend a day chilling out alone at the movies because you’re tired / whatever limit feels right to you. Our society celebrates charismatic extroverts, but that’s not the only good way to be and it can have its own downsides. Do what you need to do to care for yourself and the interactions you do have will be so much better.
posted by momus_window at 5:39 PM on July 1, 2021
posted by momus_window at 5:39 PM on July 1, 2021
This thread is closed to new comments.
What works for me is to just set aside what I "should" do. I also try to set aside all the unkind self talk. It helps me to remember that most other people feel self conscious, insecure, and uninteresting, no matter how cool, talented, and at ease they seem from the outside. It's all a big act! And they are mostly too involved with their own inner struggles to have any real opinion about me.
Also, other people's opinions about me are none of my business. All I can do is be me, it's not my job to contort myself to win their favor.
I love external validation, and so does everyone else.
There are many valid ways to interact with others. Maybe you would feel more comfortable not trying to take center stage in this situation, but to be the appreciative, generous audience the others need.
Forget about how you are supposed to be. See if you can figure out who you are.
You have amazing talents and qualities, but those are hidden from you at the moment. Be kind to the vulnerable, sensitive person inside of you, who is desperate to be seen and valued. You deserve love and respect, from others, as well as from yourself.
posted by Zumbador at 2:02 AM on July 1, 2021 [6 favorites]